Donna (Ghost Hunters) admits evidence was staged

[Apology]

Donna LaCroix is dishing out the dirt on her former employers, TAPS, Ghost Hunters, and Ghost Hunters International. She says that, while she didn't participate in staging evidence herself, she knew that some of the evidence was staged. In addition, she says that she, Brian Harnois, and Andy Andrews were "screwed" so badly in their contracts for Ghost Hunters International that they actually lost money on the show.

The podcast is uncensored and therefore not safe for work due to adult language, so listen at your own risk:

http://ghostdivas.mypodcast.com/200911_archive.html

The part about the staging is between 21:16 and 23:32. You probably won't want to listen to the whole podcast, it gets pretty annoying in a few spots :( You might want to skip forward to 34:33 for a really nice statement of skepticism from Ms. LaCroix.

It's nice to hear the truth for once, even though Ms. LaCroix is only telling us what we already knew :D

[kritter]

Ghost Hunters? Fake? What's next, is someone gonna tell me Professional wrestling is fake too....???

[Brattus]

It's....It's fake? Really? But it was on TV and everything. You know they can't lie about anything on TV it's against the law or something.

[Eyeron]

It doesn't matter. The true blue believers will never accept this. And it won't do anything to stem the tide of ghost hunting shows.

[Denver]

Her comments about any staging or fakery were vague at best, and I didn't hear anything specific - she seemed to imply she couldn't be more specific.

Though, she was pretty specific on how she felt about show. And Jason. And the production company. And the "Family"...

[Apology]

Her comments about any staging or fakery were vague at best, and I didn't hear anything specific - she seemed to imply she couldn't be more specific.

Though, she was pretty specific on how she felt about show. And Jason. And the production company. And the "Family"...

She was pretty vague. She was unwilling to be specific about which episode, how they did it, etc. I was impressed when she said that she found out about some of the staging and cried for days, though. Apparently she takes this paranormal ghost stuff for real so she was crushed to find out they were faking it. I also was rather impressed that she told the listeners not to believe anything they saw on the show or on TV in general.

The podcast itself was annoying as hell though :( There was a lot of "We're edgy and in your face HURR" posturing that just rubbed me the wrong way. I salute you for sticking it out to listen to the whole 45 minutes or so that Ms. LaCroix was on, because a good portion of it was like ghostly nails on a spectral chalkboard.

[The Don]

Disgruntled ex-employee badmouthing her employer ;)

[plumjam]

Must be the smuggest, most unpleasant interviewers I've ever heard.

[GanipGnop]

It's too bad this lady had to be so heavy on the personal attacks and so light on the actual evidence of woo. She does come across more as a angry ex than a person trying to warn the public of fraud. I would imagine the woo factor is so high on this type of show that their non-disclosure agreement is as thick as a big city phone book. (If it wasn't I know I'd be getting a raise every show)!

Donna's time to make her allegations was when she still worked for the show. She would have had a lot more impact if she quit in the middle of the season without all the public animosity and presented her case to the public in a calm professional manner. As a matter of fact she should have done everything in her power to be seen as the best "ghost buster" right before she quit. Her current actions only allow her detractors to to dismiss her as a jilted "lover".

[Pure Argent]

Well, I, for one, am deeply shocked and hurt that our national media would have deceived us all so.

[desertgal]

In addition, she says that she, Brian Harnois, and Andy Andrews were "screwed" so badly in their contracts for Ghost Hunters International that they actually lost money on the show.


Well, here's a tip for Ms. LaCroix - if you are presented with a contract that is going to screw you so badly that you end up losing money on the show: don't sign it. :p

[Frying Dutchmen]

I'm listening to it, and boy she has a bee in her bonnet about taps, I'm kinda enjoying it. I think she could be right about Ghost hunters


The podcast other then the hosts grand standing and the bad audio quality is far better then similar paranormal podcasts like eerie radio.

[not daSkeptic]

Has Jason or Grant or SyFy or Pilgrim or anybody else in a position of authority within the Ghost Hunters franchise ever actually said that nothing in the show is staged?

[JWideman]

Well, here's a tip for Ms. LaCroix - if you are presented with a contract that is going to screw you so badly that you end up losing money on the show: don't sign it. :p

Without knowing more details it's hard to say, but I somehow doubt they realized they were getting screwed when they signed.

[Corsair 115]

Ghost Hunters? Fake? What's next, is someone gonna tell me Professional wrestling is fake too....???


I never pass up a chance that allows me to quote a line from Futurama:

"Man, I used to think Ultimate Robot Fighting was real like pro wrestling, but it turns out it's fixed like boxing."

[desertgal]

Without knowing more details it's hard to say, but I somehow doubt they realized they were getting screwed when they signed.

Well, as you say, without more details, it is impossible to say - but she did say they were "screwed in their contracts". I don't think it's a stretch that she may have possibly signed a contract without understanding all that it contained, and is now whining because she was held to her commitment. It happens. :)

[exeplis]

scifake.com Donna responded to her ghostdivas appearance and 'kinda' took some of it back IMO.

[Audible Click]

Has Jason or Grant or SyFy or Pilgrim or anybody else in a position of authority within the Ghost Hunters franchise ever actually said that nothing in the show is staged?

During the "Collargate scandal", Halloween show 2008. Jason and Grant said on their Facebook pages that nothing was ever faked on their shows and if you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. :D

[Pure Argent]

During the "Collargate scandal", Halloween show 2008. Jason and Grant said on their Facebook pages that nothing was ever faked on their shows and if you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. :D

So you're the one that stole my bridge!

[Penamunde]

Donna LaCroix is dishing out the dirt on her former employers, TAPS, Ghost Hunters, and Ghost Hunters International. She says that, while she didn't participate in staging evidence herself, she knew that some of the evidence was staged. In addition, she says that she, Brian Harnois, and Andy Andrews were "screwed" so badly in their contracts for Ghost Hunters International that they actually lost money on the show.

The podcast is uncensored and therefore not safe for work due to adult language, so listen at your own risk:

http://ghostdivas.mypodcast.com/200911_archive.html

The part about the staging is between 21:16 and 23:32. You probably won't want to listen to the whole podcast, it gets pretty annoying in a few spots :( You might want to skip forward to 34:33 for a really nice statement of skepticism from Ms. LaCroix.

It's nice to hear the truth for once, even though Ms. LaCroix is only telling us what we already knew :D



This was posted as a comment on the radio show archive site.


I think it's hysterical how you sit there and say that you have some of the smartest listeners for your show and how you all claim to be very intelligent people, however you are so quick to judge other people just with claims from one disgruntled person.

I am sure none of you have held ONE single conversation with Jason or Grant to maybe gain their perspectives on the situation OR maybe their own personal issues they dealt with Donna. You just assume because one person claims this, that it's automatically true when in reality, there could be things you may not know about Donna that would blow your minds away.

From what I have learned from my life experiences, there are ALWAYS two sides to EVERY story. Everyone is so quick to judge Jason and Grant because they are the head of TAPS, so no matter what, their heads are first on the chopping block. Mostly, they want people like Jason and Grant to fail simply because they are jealous of their success. That's what it boils down to.

DO NOT sit there and judge people you have never met in person and do not judge people based on what one person, who clearly is someone who harbors anger, says. A true intelligent person would listen to what one person says, and then talk to the other source and gain their side of the story before forming their opinions.

But since you all have claimed to have never talked to Jason and Grant in person, your opinions mean absolutely nothing. You are going off of hearsay and that is why I think your show sound completely unintelligent.

Learn ALL facts before casting judgement on people you have never even spoken to.

This pretty much sums it up for me. It doesn't matter weather ghosts are real or not, if you base your views one the ravings of a disgruntled cast member and two drunk twit interviewers that pose as some kind of paranormal Warren Commission.

Its a sad piece of work

[Audible Click]

So you're the one that stole my bridge!
;)

[wicked_ways]

This pretty much sums it up for me. It doesn't matter weather ghosts are real or not, if you base your views one the ravings of a disgruntled cast member and two drunk twit interviewers that pose as some kind of paranormal Warren Commission.

Its a sad piece of work

Penamunde,

Do you base your views on the assumption that Donna is a disgruntled cast member?
There has been quite a lot of work done by someone named Dreamsinger who posted on the scifi forums.
I don't base my views on the fake paranormal shows on Donna, I have seen actual evidence on the site created by dreamsinger called Darkrealm Labs.
Every one of those silly shows has been completely busted by dreamsinger.
Darkrealm Labs, check it out.

[Penamunde]

Penamunde,

Do you base your views on the assumption that Donna is a disgruntled cast member?
There has been quite a lot of work done by someone named Dreamsinger who posted on the scifi forums.
I don't base my views on the fake paranormal shows on Donna, I have seeln actual evidence on the site created by dreamsinger called Darkrealm Labs.
Every one of those silly shows has been completely busted by dreamsinger.
Darkrealm Labs, check it out.

Donna sure seems to be Disgruntled, but I will go look on the Dreamsinger.

My main problem is the interviewers, they acted very very unprofessional and if they want to be considered professional in their Paranormal investigations.
This is not the roadmap to take, Past and Current actions are always taken into account when investigators bring forth evidence on the unknown.

Don't take my word for it just look at some of the Bigfoot threads here on the forum

[wicked_ways]

Donna sure seems to be Disgruntled, but I will go look on the Dreamsinger.

My main problem is the interviewers, they acted very very unprofessional and if they want to be considered professional in their Paranormal investigations.
This is not the roadmap to take, Past and Current actions are always taken into account when investigators bring forth evidence on the unknown.

Don't take my word for it just look at some of the Bigfoot threads here on the forum


oh, i have no doubt she is disgruntled, she started to speak out a little, but was shut down. (maybe a sort of non-disclosure thing, i dont remember)

yes, they define unprofessional, i agree. :D

ah, bigfoot threads, gotta love 'em, i know i do. :)

[makaya325]

Why do we take her word without any evidence to support her claim? It should work both ways when it comes to the burden of proof

[Penamunde]

Tammy's Rant about Ghost Hunting

One of the things about me is that I tell it like I see it. Everyone doesn't agree and everyone doesn't like it. I have even been called at home by other teams and asked to take down things on my site that showed them in an unfavorable light. In the vein of trying to get along, I did. But here's the deal - if you don't want to be called out for being shady - don't be shady. To me, that's not that hard.

I have one of a very few teams that does not and will not wear matching T-shirts. For those of you that do that and you think it's necessary, great for you. Some teams tout that they make them look professional. You can "look" professional all day long but that doesn't mean you "are" professional. Professional is saying that you will honor a client's confidentiality and actually doing it. Saying you will and then having a whole group of people show up at their home wearing ghost hunter T-shirts isn't exactly going to do the trick. The T-shirts don't do anything but make you look uniform, and well, I am glad that there are no two people alike on my team. Folks, what people wear when they come to investigate your house is not what matters. What matters is that they treat you and your home with respect and they don't create unnecessary drama where there is already an uncertain circumstance.

Content removed; breach of Rule 4.
I didn't write this about anyone in particular, so don't go get your panties in a wad if you fit one of these descriptions. If you do, it might do you well to rethink the way you're doing things. But if you don't - carry on, it's your name, not mine. I wrote it in hopes of making people think about some things when looking into this field. If I can show one or two people that it's all really silly, then that's good for me.

Here is the link to the Rant http://www.eerieok.com/rant.htm

Bold and Highlite is mine:

I guess her comment on the show that Jason and Grant are ****, indicates that she has had a change of heart or a laps into the lets bash while we have the spotlight.

I'm betting its just her Hypocritical divergences and or Penis envy is getting the better of her.

Please note I'm not a believer or disbeliever in ghosts but this lady ??? needs to understand that these past comments are going to come back and haunt her.

Please do not quote/post full pages (Rule 4) and do not curse in your posts (Rule 10).

[not daSkeptic]

During the "Collargate scandal", Halloween show 2008. Jason and Grant said on their Facebook pages that nothing was ever faked on their shows and if you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. :D

Interesting. I had always left open the possibility that the entire thing was just a clever media production, that it was all orchestrated to seem real (e.g. documentary-style shooting) and they just let people think it was without ever actually saying so. But if they've gone on record saying nothing was ever staged, they're taking a big risk. Had they never actually said it, they could have used that as a defense. But now they cannot.

[Lucian]

Penamunde,

Do you base your views on the assumption that Donna is a disgruntled cast member?
There has been quite a lot of work done by someone named Dreamsinger who posted on the scifi forums.
I don't base my views on the fake paranormal shows on Donna, I have seen actual evidence on the site created by dreamsinger called Darkrealm Labs.
Every one of those silly shows has been completely busted by dreamsinger.
Darkrealm Labs, check it out.

Another Dreamsinger site: http://www.paranormal-tips.com/. I think there is a fair amount of overlap between Paranormal Tips and http://paranormal.darkrealmlabs.com/.

[makaya325]

Interesting. I had always left open the possibility that the entire thing was just a clever media production, that it was all orchestrated to seem real (e.g. documentary-style shooting) and they just let people think it was without ever actually saying so. But if they've gone on record saying nothing was ever staged, they're taking a big risk. Had they never actually said it, they could have used that as a defense. But now they cannot.

Actually, you are right, they are ruining their credibility by denying that they faked an obviously crude trick on the Halloween special. It makes you rethink all of their other evidence they claim to be "Real".

[not daSkeptic]

It makes you rethink all of their other evidence they claim to be "Real".

Not really. I've always seen the show as nothing more than SyFy's attempt at comedy programming. I knew there was commercial value in people thinking it's real, I just never knew anyone was actually saying it's real.

[desertgal]

Actually, you are right, they are ruining their credibility by denying that they faked an obviously crude trick on the Halloween special.

What credibility?

It makes you rethink all of their other evidence they claim to be "Real".

No, it doesn't. Of course they claim their evidence is "real" - they have a show to sell. I doubt anyone, aside from a small deluded number of viewers, believed it was any more real than Ghostbusters.

[makaya325]

What credibility?



No, it doesn't. Of course they claim their evidence is "real" - they have a show to sell. I doubt anyone, aside from a small deluded number of viewers, believed it was any more real than Ghostbusters.

So every piece of evidence that was ever presented must be a fake, because it is on tv? Sorry, but some of it COULD be real, just not all of it.

[Akhenaten]

What credibility?


No, it doesn't. Of course they claim their evidence is "real" - they have a show to sell. I doubt anyone, aside from a small deluded number of viewers, believed it was any more real than Ghostbusters.





So every piece of evidence that was ever presented must be a fake, because it is on tv? Sorry, but some of it COULD be real, just not all of it.



my bolding


Considering that you're pretending to respond to desertgal here, would you mind pointing out how you think your statement relates to what was actually posted?

[makaya325]

my bolding


Considering that you're pretending to respond to desertgal here, would you mind pointing out how you think your statement relates to what was actually posted?

It is concerning the alleged fakery admitted by one of the Ghost Hunters crew, so It is almost a dead match, in relation to the OT

[Careyp74]

my bolding


Considering that you're pretending to respond to desertgal here, would you mind pointing out how you think your statement relates to what was actually posted?

Need I remind you that there is substantial evidence (I could just link the entire JREF forum here) that the posts being quoted by him are usually not read / comprehended by him before responding?

[desertgal]

So every piece of evidence that was ever presented must be a fake, because it is on tv?

I didn't say that. :rolleyes:


Considering that you're pretending to respond to desertgal here, would you mind pointing out how you think your statement relates to what was actually posted?It is concerning the alleged fakery admitted by one of the Ghost Hunters crew, so It is almost a dead match, in relation to the OT

I didn't write the OP. Try to focus,Edited for civility. Please explain how your reply to my post relates to what I actually posted?

Please remember that name calling is neither civil nor polite. Thank you.

[makaya325]

Don't call me Golum

[desertgal]

Don't call me Golum

You're right, that wasn't nice. I apologize.

Please explain how your reply to my post relates to what I actually posted?

[makaya325]

You never said that Ghost hunter's evidence MUST be faked, but it seems like that you are implying that exact concept.

[SphereGuy]

I'm sure most of the show is real. They really go to locations and set up equipment and poke around in the dark. However, none of their "evidence" for ghosts can be real as ghosts are not real, therefore there can be no evidence for them. The evidence itself may be real, but it is not evidence of ghosts.

[makaya325]

I'm sure most of the show is real. They really go to locations and set up equipment and poke around in the dark. However, none of their "evidence" for ghosts can be real as ghosts are not real, therefore there can be no evidence for them. The evidence itself may be real, but it is not evidence of ghosts.

So what you are saying is that ghosts can not possibly exist?

[SphereGuy]

So what you are saying is that ghosts can not possibly exist?

Yes, just to be clear I am saying that ghosts cannot and do not exist. If you have proof that ghosts exist I suggest you visit this (http://www.randi.org) site, they actually offer a reward for such information. If you don't want to go through their bureaucracy then you can present such evidence to me, all I require is that all my travel and other expenses be paid in advance.

[Careyp74]

I am sorry to ruin the fun, but I just have to end this one. I am getting a headache. MAKAYA, this is the statement made:

Of course they claim their evidence is "real" - they have a show to sell. I doubt anyone, aside from a small deluded number of viewers, believed it was any more real than Ghostbusters.

This statement is CLEARLY saying two things. One, that the participants in the show have a motive in claiming that the evidence is real. Two, that there is likely only a small amount of people that believe the show is real.

Your statement:
So every piece of evidence that was ever presented must be a fake, because it is on tv? Sorry, but some of it COULD be real, just not all of it.
does not address either point made, because you are essentially creating a strawman, which is something you do a lot, and arguing against that instead. Do you need me to explain what a strawman is?

[desertgal]

You never said that Ghost hunter's evidence MUST be faked, but it seems like that you are implying that exact concept.

I wasn't implying anything. I said what I meant. If you read something else into it, that's your mistake.

[makaya325]

Yes, just to be clear I am saying that ghosts cannot and do not exist. If you have proof that ghosts exist I suggest you visit this (http://www.randi.org) site, they actually offer a reward for such information. If you don't want to go through their bureaucracy then you can present such evidence to me, all I require is that all my travel and other expenses be paid in advance.

Why can't they exist then? Science says nothing about them being impossible, just rather unnatural and odd to exist.

[Akhenaten]

Why can't they exist then? Science says nothing about them being impossible, just rather unnatural and odd to exist.





What evidence do you bring to support this ridiculous statement?

[not daSkeptic]

Why can't they exist then? Science says nothing about them being impossible, just rather unnatural and odd to exist.

Why stop with ghosts? What about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Borg, or the Star Wars galaxy? Is there any reason why these cannot exist? After all, just because something is known to be fiction does not mean it isn't really out there, it only means the fiction was not based in reality. But therein lies the rub. How does one distinguish between fiction and reality? How does one tell the difference between something that actually exists and something that's just a story? Figure that one out and you'll have an answer to your question.

[SphereGuy]

Why can't they exist then? Science says nothing about them being impossible, just rather unnatural and odd to exist.

If they exist, prove it to me.

[makaya325]

Why stop with ghosts? What about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Borg, or the Star Wars galaxy? Is there any reason why these cannot exist? After all, just because something is known to be fiction does not mean it isn't really out there, it only means the fiction was not based in reality. But therein lies the rub. How does one distinguish between fiction and reality? How does one tell the difference between something that actually exists and something that's just a story? Figure that one out and you'll have an answer to your question.

At least Ghosts are seen more than all of the rest listed COMBINED. Ghost's represent a possible phenomena that people trying to comprehend is akin a caveman trying to comprehend a submarine. Santa Claus is not seen by every culture, actually very few, but Ghosts are seen by almost every civilization on earth

[makaya325]

If they exist, prove it to me.

I never said that they exist, I only said that they COULD exist.

[SphereGuy]

I never said that they exist, I only said that they COULD exist.

When it comes to existing something either does or doesn't.

[Akhenaten]

At least Ghosts are seen more than all of the rest listed COMBINED. Ghost's represent a possible phenomena that people trying to comprehend is akin a caveman trying to comprehend a submarine. Santa Claus is not seen by every culture, actually very few, but Ghosts are seen by almost every civilization on earth





I never said that they exist, I only said that they COULD exist.





The points you attempt to make give the appearance that you don't know what you've said. Do you even read your own posts?

[makaya325]

The points you attempt to make give the appearance that you don't know what you've said. Do you even read your own posts?

At least Ghosts are seen more than all of the rest listed COMBINED. Ghost's represent a possible phenomena that people trying to comprehend is akin a caveman trying to comprehend a submarine. Santa Claus is not seen by every culture, actually very few, but Ghosts are seen by almost every civilization on earth

Do you even care to bold what I said?

[not daSkeptic]

At least Ghosts are seen more than all of the rest listed COMBINED. Ghost's represent a possible phenomena that people trying to comprehend is akin a caveman trying to comprehend a submarine. Santa Claus is not seen by every culture, actually very few, but Ghosts are seen by almost every civilization on earth

Just because someone interpreted an event as seeing a ghost does not mean they actually did. Once again, how does one distinguish between that which is real and that which is artificial?

[Akhenaten]

Three day suspensions are real, ghosts, not so much.

Linky (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5320399#post5320399)

[GanipGnop]

I never said that they exist, I only said that they COULD exist.

Just about anyone on the Earth can see a hallucination that don't make what they see real or scientifically provable. There is a reason Ghost Hunting isn't taught at MIT or CalTech. Let's all remember Ghost Hunters Grant Wilson and Jason Hawes are plumbers in real life. Now I'll give you that Hawes was the top plumber in all of New England for Roto Rooter prior to the show but that hardly makes him a scientist or even a paranormal investigator.

Since you think these clowns COULD be on to something perhaps you'd like to explain the hard science behind Ghost Hunters equipment and techniques? (because Jason and Grant never do). Can you explain how they use an infrared thermometer (IRT) to read cold spots in the middle of thin air? IRT's only read temperatures of SURFACES through emissivity air doesn't emit IR. Even with an external probe you can't read the temp of the air in the middle of a room with an IRT. They are simply measuring differing temperatures of surfaces across the room and nothing more. WOOOOOOOO!

[Minarvia]

Since you think these clowns COULD be on to something perhaps you'd like to explain the hard science behind Ghost Hunters equipment and techniques? (because Jason and Grant never do). Can you explain how they use an infrared thermometer (IRT) to read cold spots in the middle of thin air? IRT's only read temperatures of SURFACES through emissivity air doesn't emit IR. Even with an external probe you can't read the temp of the air in the middle of a room with an IRT. They are simply measuring differing temperatures of surfaces across the room and nothing more. WOOOOOOOO!

Personally, I don't think these guys are on to anything. But I'd like to address what you've said here. I think they use the infrared thermometers to read if a hot or cold spot could be coming off of something not actually seen in a room. If something appears on the camera that is not in the room they say it "could" be paranormal.

They use the EMF detectors to see of the EMF's in a home are too high. If so, they explain to the homeowners that such high readings could produce hallucinations, feelings of unease, and a few other symptoms, thus there is not necessarily anything paranormal there. If there are high EMF's that are not accounted for by wiring or such, then there "could" be something paranormal.

They have at least been more careful these past few seasons in how they word things and explain why they use what they use. Not that they know how to really detect ghosts anyway. They try.

What's funny is that number one, they say they are ghost hunters when ghosts haven't even been proven to exist, and number two, they now have an academy to teach people how to hunt for what hasn't been proven to exist. :jaw-dropp I just couldn't believe what I saw when I actually watched that first episode of "Ghost Hunters Academy." Ugh.

[Beerina]

Disgruntled ex-employee badmouthing her employer ;)

Her or ghosts?













:duck: Think about it if you hafta!

[GanipGnop]

Personally, I don't think these guys are on to anything. But I'd like to address what you've said here. I think they use the infrared thermometers to read if a hot or cold spot could be coming off of something not actually seen in a room. If something appears on the camera that is not in the room they say it "could" be paranormal.

You obviously don't understand how an IRT works. It works just like your eyes do but instead of seeing reflected color IRT's see reflected heat. If it can't see it, it can't measure it. Due to infrared's long wavelength firemen can use IR to help them see through smoke. IR would be a subpar spectrum to use to detect a hazy or invisible apparition. Using the word could doesn't make them anymore objective than a fortune teller. It could be a lot things and without extraordinary evidence paranormal is at the bottom of that list just below Santa and the Easter Bunny.


They use the EMF detectors to see of the EMF's in a home are too high. If so, they explain to the homeowners that such high readings could produce hallucinations, feelings of unease, and a few other symptoms, thus there is not necessarily anything paranormal there. If there are high EMF's that are not accounted for by wiring or such, then there "could" be something paranormal.

This isn't a scientific explanation of why they think a "ghost" can generate an EM field or how they effect a EMF meter this is a declaration of faith. What exactly is too high of a reading? What is your source for the EMF hallucination claim? A more likely scenario is that since the hosts are plumbers and not Electrical Engineering majors they haven't accounted for every possible EMF signal. Once again unaccounted high EMF could be anything but woo is still at the bottom of the list.


They have at least been more careful these past few seasons in how they word things and explain why they use what they use. Not that they know how to really detect ghosts anyway. They try.

And none of that makes them anymore scientific in their methods. The fact that someone "really" tries to catch a rainbow doesn't make them any less foolish no matter how much they say "could".


What's funny is that number one, they say they are ghost hunters when ghosts haven't even been proven to exist, and number two, they now have an academy to teach people how to hunt for what hasn't been proven to exist. :jaw-dropp I just couldn't believe what I saw when I actually watched that first episode of "Ghost Hunters Academy." Ugh.

What is really funny is that two plumbers are accepted as "experts" in a field that is 1/4 a step away from the Blair Witch Project. In 1907 Dr. Duncan MacDougall claimed scientific proof of the existence of the human soul by recording the change in weight immediately following death. The research did not follow the scientific method, showed wide variance in results yet it was published the New York Times and American Medicine. Ghost Hunters is very similar, it's like "Seinfeld" a program about nothing.

http://www.skepdic.com/emf.html

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4081

[Penamunde]

Science is ridgid and sterile, dismisses posibilities.

I'm glad that I don't have to wrap my head in plastic at night, in order to keep the possibilities out.

How sad for them.

[Minarvia]

You're right, GanipGanop, I don't know how IRT works. I just said what I think "they" think it does. But I don't know. Thanks for explaining it, tho. And I commend them for trying, sort of, but since they never find anything year after year they are obviously in it for the money.

I wasn't defending them, but just saying how they think they "use" their scientific equipment. :)

[GanipGnop]

You're right, GanipGanop, I don't know how IRT works. I just said what I think "they" think it does. But I don't know. Thanks for explaining it, tho. And I commend them for trying, sort of, but since they never find anything year after year they are obviously in it for the money.

I wasn't defending them, but just saying how they think they "use" their scientific equipment. :)

Then your statement "I think they use the infrared thermometers" was a poor choice of words on your part in the OP. The tone of your OP wasn't "this is what these guys think" you seemed to be speaking from a position of authority.

But that's cool, I'm just pointing out how what "they" think is very probably wrong. I could see you didn't realize how an IRT works so I wanted to make a point of doing something the ghost "experts" NEVER do which is explaining how one does. I use them at work so I know their limitations but a simple search of the internet can find the same information. All the same you're welcome for the explanation, dispelling myth is part of my mission. :)

And so I still wait for someone to explain the hard science behind Ghost Hunters equipment and techniques in detail. Please, no assumptions or guesses or this is what they think. Hard science only PLEASE!

[Minarvia]

Okay, you're right and now I see what you're getting at. I thought when you said "Jason and Grant never do" you meant that they never said anything but just waved their equipment around (well, which is what they do!) and never give an explanation of what they are attempting. And you're right that my wording was poor. I suppose my only authority is that I occasionally watch their show and that is what they say their scientific methods are.

They have no "hard science." Absolutely not.

I'll wait with you for the hard science. This isn't the first time I misunderstood someone's post. Sorry! I won't derail again! :)

[stephenenelson]

Over on Skeptical Viewer, we've amassed a number of incidents that raise our suspicions of TAPS. There's no smoking gun, but there's an overpowering aroma of gunsmoke. Most of their equipment has no logical link to ghosts. There is no reason to think that a ghost would appear on a FLIR (forward-looking infrared... sorry, their terms, not mine...) camera.

In fact, since I have yet to see any definition of what a ghost is physically, I have no reason to think that a ghost would have any physical effects at all.

[GanipGnop]

Over on Skeptical Viewer, we've amassed a number of incidents that raise our suspicions of TAPS. There's no smoking gun, but there's an overpowering aroma of gunsmoke. Most of their equipment has no logical link to ghosts. There is no reason to think that a ghost would appear on a FLIR (forward-looking infrared... sorry, their terms, not mine...) camera.

In fact, since I have yet to see any definition of what a ghost is physically, I have no reason to think that a ghost would have any physical effects at all.

Just to clarify to the best of my understanding they have used both IRT (simple IR thermometer) and FLIR (thermographic imaging) technology on various episodes but you're right they are both based on the same premise; they can only detect heat radiating from surfaces that can be seen. I looked over the site you mentioned and they have a pretty good argument that some GH FLIR images were doctored to give the impression of mysterious temperature change.

http://www.skepticalviewer.com/doctored-manson-flir/

As for the physical attributes of ghosts I agree, that is one of my main problem with just about every paranormal investigation they are based purely on unproven assumptions and supposition. Compare a official TAPS technical introduction on EMF meters:

http://www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/articles/technical/emfintro.html

To an ACTUAL technical explanation of EMF meters by someone familiar with its actual operations and limitations especially in regards to ghost hunting. ASSAP actually uses the scientific method to investigate paranormal claims. I guess that's why they don't have a TV show, real science can be boring.

http://www.assap.org/newsite/articles/Ghosts%20EMF%20meters%20and%20baselines.html

ASSAP also has an explanation of magnetic hallucinations based on scientific research but they make it clear it doesn't effect everyone and it hasn't been proven in the field yet. They also make it clear that you can't detect the EMF responsible without very specialized detection equipment known as MADS. If they do prove this phenomenon in the field it could help explain away a lot of paranormal claims without a need for Woo.

http://www.assap.org/newsite/articles/Magnetic%20ghosts.html

I mean if two plumbers can't explain something then ghosts could exist? That could happen but then again it could just as likely they have Star Wars midichlorians in their blood stream that they don't know how to control. :p

[Eyeron]

Religion is rigid and sterile, dismisses possibilities.

I'm glad that I don't have to wrap my head in tin foil at night, in order to keep the possibilities out.

How sad for them.

[Penamunde]

Science is ridgid and sterile, dismisses posibilities.

I'm glad that I don't have to wrap my head in plastic at night, in order to keep the possibilities out.

How sad for them.


Ok, we'll add religion to that statement as well.

[twistor59]

Science is ridgid and sterile, dismisses posibilities.

I'm glad that I don't have to wrap my head in plastic at night, in order to keep the possibilities out.

How sad for them.

The science that I know and love brought us general relativity, quantum mechanics, gauge theories. Neither rigid nor sterile. Maybe you were just having a laugh !?

[bozman]

There are some pretty good youtube videos that do a good job exposing Ghost Hunters silliness. When I watched some of "mistakes" that their own cameras caught (like a confused guest host telling Grant and the other guy he heard the EVP voice from their recorder patched into his headphones before it was even "caught" during an investigation, or the bald guy nonchalantly installing a string on Grant's jacket which was later be "pulled" by a ghost) it seemed pretty obvious that they're outright hoaxers, and bad ones at that.

[Minarvia]

And these fakers/silly people are teaching a "new generation" how to properly for non-existent entities. :rolleyes:

I get the biggest kick out of Steve who says spiders and flying frighten but not ghosts. Wow, could that be because he knows there AREN'T any? ;)

[bozman]

And these fakers/silly people are teaching a "new generation" how to properly for non-existent entities. :rolleyes:

I get the biggest kick out of Steve who says spiders and flying frighten but not ghosts. Wow, could that be because he knows there AREN'T any? ;)

Yeah but in his defense, spiders are kinda scary. Ever watch the spider scene from the original "The Fly" where that guy is caught in that huge web? Still freaks me out. :boxedin:

Ghosts, on the other hand, are apparently only interested in doing stuff like creating cold spots in rooms or draining battery power from handheld heat sensing cameras. That's not so bad.

[Minarvia]

Yeah but in his defense, spiders are kinda scary. Ever watch the spider scene from the original "The Fly" where that guy is caught in that huge web? Still freaks me out. :boxedin:

Ghosts, on the other hand, are apparently only interested in doing stuff like creating cold spots in rooms or draining battery power from handheld heat sensing cameras. That's not so bad.

Yep, spiders ARE scary. I am afraid of them. Well, most kinds I am.

But ghosts...like you said, what do they ever really do? According to the worst claims they scratch people. But that's it? If they exist and do just that, it's sort of impressive but not really that bad. After all, I get scratched by my dogs every day. Big whoop. It doesn't mean they scare me. :)

Well, at least Ghost Hunters haven't yet tried out the "Frank's Box" like some shows do. That is so dumb and annoying.

Oh, and I guess only ghosts in England, ala "Most Haunted" throw stones and hurl chairs and possess people in the group. Are U.S. ghosts retarded? :p

[jhunter1163]

I'm WAY more scared of spiders than I am of ghosts. Spiders exist. Ghosts don't.

[Denver]

And these fakers/silly people are teaching a "new generation" how to properly for non-existent entities. :rolleyes:

I get the biggest kick out of Steve who says spiders and flying frighten but not ghosts. Wow, could that be because he knows there AREN'T any? ;)

I have strong expectations for this new Ghost Hunter Academy to reach new heights of stupidity.

Here's this Steve guy, whose techniques and skills have never enabled him to see or record anything approaching paranormal, and whose understanding of ghosts and science can be summarized in a short "tutorial" he once gave Tango:

(on why EMF detectors detect ghosts)

Steve: "What are Ghosts?"
Tango: "Energy?"
Steve (waving an EMF detector around): "What does this detect?"
Tango: "Energy!"

And now Steve and Tango are using their "experience" to teach a new group? Even if ghosts do exist, and considering Steve and Tango's "evidence" so far, then from a practical perspective, if these new guys want to have a better chance of finding a ghost, they should listen carefully to everything that Steve and Tango tell them, and do the opposite!

[Minarvia]

I'm WAY more scared of spiders than I am of ghosts. Spiders exist. Ghosts don't.

Yep. And spiders can kill you.

Houdini summed up my feelings about "ghosts" when he said that if they are real than all they can do are parlour tricks and flap-doodle stunts?

Ooooooohhh....scary! :eek:


And about the new groups "learning" how to hunt ghosts...yep. Do the opposite. No modern ghost hunting group has come up with ANYTHING. Do your own thing, kids, and if there is something to find than maybe YOU will find it. Not them.