My review of 2012

[Abdul Alhazred]

Not mine, and yes it belongs in the religion section.

My review of 2012 (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=116552) (Rapture Ready)

...

As usual with Hollywood end-of-the-world movies, they completely miss the point - the fact that the coming apocalypse is judgement from God upon rebellious mankind. Mankind is portrayed in the film as being basically good, unifying together to overcome the challenge they are facing. No mention of God at all in the film, other than the numerous times His name was used in vain. (Actually, this is quite accurate, because Revelation says men will blaspheme God on the account of certain plagues.)

No mention of sin or repentence in the movie. In fact never do they ask why all this is happening to the world, or ponder that maybe it's becuase of the rapant fornication and homosexuality and greed and false religion in the world and mass rejection of the Gospel that all these things are coming upon mankind. Nope, mankind is the protagonist, and the judgements from God are the antagonist - complete reversal of the truth, and conditioning people to worship the beast.

...

The one good thing about the movie was the special effects - the disaster scenes could very well be accurate depictions of some of the Tribulation events. In the end, the earth is completely terraformed, as the result of great earthquakes (Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 6) and the "roaring and tossing of the sea" (mentioned in Luke 21). Every mountain and island was moved from its place. But in the end there was nothing about Jesus coming back to seperate the sheep and the goats, or establish His millennial kingdom on earth.

Mark my words Hollywood, the true apocalypse will come upon the whole world, it will be a true and righteous judgement from God Almighty, upon wicked mankind. Mankind will attempt to unite together under the Antichrist to overcome it, but God will destroy them all and avenge the blood of the saints. God is awesome!


:eek:

[I Ratant]

Not mine, and yes it belongs in the religion section.

My review of 2012 (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=116552) (Rapture Ready)



:eek:
.
Looking at that site, why would you go there twice?
Just a buncha bible thumpers pumping each other's fantasies up.

[Hux]

Thanks for the review. Is this film not in fact based upon Mayan prophecy where their calender ends in 2012? I don't understand the rapture references. The prophecy came from a people who ripped out still beating hearts from victims because they didn't know what the sun was going to do. That's real science.

I read that the makers made a conscious but craven decision to not destroy the Kabbah, whilst all other major religious sites were destroyed along with everything else. Are we so scared now that we dare not depict even a natural disaster for fear of upsetting someone?

It looks to me as if this is just another one of those films where the special effects are developed and then they build a story around it.

[HansMustermann]

I'll join in the "colour me unimpressed" chorus. It's exactly the grade of drivel I'd expect from some fundies.

[pakeha]

... The prophecy came from a people who ripped out still beating hearts from victims because they didn't know what the sun was going to do. That's real science.

Ah, someone who 'admires' that culture.

[Ryokan]

the earth is completely terraformed

Isn't it already..? :confused:

[TimCallahan]

It seems odd to me that the Mayans could predict the end of the world in 2012, but somehow couldn't predict the destruction of their culture, along with that of the Aztecs, at the hands of the Spanish in the 1500s.

[pakeha]

That's true, TimCallahan.
Just what was predicted for those years, I wonder?

[Hux]

Did it actually make any predictions or was it not just a case that the Mayan calender happened to end then and they couldn't be arsed to go further? :confused:

[I Ratant]

Did it actually make any predictions or was it not just a case that the Mayan calender happened to end then and they couldn't be arsed to go further? :confused:

"Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is the basis for a New Age belief that a cataclysm will take place on December 21, 2012. December 20, 2012 is simply the last day of the 13th b'ak'tun. But that is not the end of the Long Count because the 14th through 20th b'ak'tuns are still to come."
.
Wiki... :)

[Aepervius]

Did it actually make any predictions or was it not just a case that the Mayan calender happened to end then and they couldn't be arsed to go further? :confused:

The subject came up many time in these forum, and basically the end of the mayan calendar predict as much the end of the word as the 31 december each year forsee the end of the world, or each 100 years or each 1000 years. In other word: not at all.

I barely remember also the mayan having date for festival set in 4500+ AD and why would one folk do that if they predicted the world END 2500 year before ? I can't find the link anymore...

[Hux]

So another crap reason to make a crap film. But the effects are good.....

A Bit like Cecil B. DeMilles "Ten Commandments".

[HansMustermann]

Did it actually make any predictions or was it not just a case that the Mayan calender happened to end then and they couldn't be arsed to go further? :confused:

There is no Mayan prediction at all. It's just that we'll enter the 14'th Baktun (Baktun = base 20 "century"). So it's somewhat akin to when our callendar rolled over from 1399 to 1400.

It's sorta like a millenialist scare, except it falls a bit short. The end of the piktun (base 20 mayan "millenium") isn't due for another 2800 years or so.

[HansMustermann]

The subject came up many time in these forum, and basically the end of the mayan calendar predict as much the end of the word as the 31 december each year forsee the end of the world, or each 100 years or each 1000 years. In other word: not at all.

I barely remember also the mayan having date for festival set in 4500+ AD and why would one folk do that if they predicted the world END 2500 year before ? I can't find the link anymore...

It gets better than that, actually. The biggest mayan date I know of, found on a monument, is 13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13 .13.13.13.0.0.0.0. Yes, that's the order of magnitude of 20^19 baktun in the future. I.e., about two billions of billions of billions of years in the future. I'm not sure what they expected at that date, but there we go.

Incidentally dates like that tell me that the callendar is not about to roll over yet. We know that the mayans had 13 and 20 as sacred numbers, hence base 20 and the Tzolkin 260 day calendar. And they were forced to use 18 for the number of months to get 18x20=360 days in a Long Count calendar.

But since it counts from zero, if it properly rolled over after 13, millenium style... there'd be 14 baktun in a piktun. And there just isn't any evidence or reason to believe that. The number 14 wasn't special to the Mayans in any form or shape. There's no reason to believe they'd go in cycles of 14 instead of using their full base 20 or at least cutting short at 13 to get a sacred number.

[justcharlie09]

Meh, I liked the NPR review better. It was spot on.

Anyone who honestly believes the Mayan calendar 2012 manure-fest needs psychiatric care more than a lesson in rationalism. :D If you ask me, but since you aren't...oh well ;)

As for the Judeo-Christians who call for the rapture, end times, etc...probably the same, but I think the best send-up of the whole "rapture" mythology can be found in Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman pages 252 & 253. Really, you have to read the book, it's a riot.

[Ladewig]

Anyone who honestly believes the Mayan calendar 2012 manure-fest needs psychiatric care more than a lesson in rationalism. :D If you ask me, but since you aren't...oh well ;)


I know you put a smiley in your post to indicate that you were joking, but I don't think that this type of humor is entirely appropriate. There is a great deal of ignorance out there. Several cable channels run "documentaries" about the Mayan calendar and people not versed in skeptical thinking may believe them. These folks don't need psychiatric care. They need a better education system and a better way to evaluate unsupported claims.


ETA: Perhaps I am being too sensitive here. I have a friend who is a social worker who counsels at-risk youth. They are very much buying into the whole 2012 stuff ( Although for some reason they believe the 2012 end-times prophecies are tied int o crop circles). My point was that it is easy for people who do not share our passion for skepticism to fall for this kind of stuff.

[Marduk]

worst bunch of abrahamic film making I've been forced to sit through since knowing
:rolleyes:

[Ladewig]

Not mine, and yes it belongs in the religion section.

My review of 2012 (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=116552) (Rapture Ready)



:eek:

I, too, sometimes poke around the Rapture Ready site and I see that those folks are more than willing to use 2012 hoopla to promote their own viewpoints. On the actual Rapture Ready Index, "date setting" is one of the factors considered when calculating the index. The website lists all the 2012 books currently being published as evidence that we are now closer to the Rapture because people claiming that the date is nearly upon us is evidence that the date is nearly upon us.

[HansMustermann]

I know you put a smiley in your post to indicate that you were joking, but I don't think that this type of humor is entirely appropriate. There is a great deal of ignorance out there. Several cable channels run "documentaries" about the Mayan calendar and people not versed in skeptical thinking may believe them. These folks don't need psychiatric care. They need a better education system and a better way to evaluate unsupported claims.

Well, I can't pass actual judgment on the documentaries without actually seeing each of them, but I somewhat doubt that they invented a prophecy where there is none. Even if some may have propagated the misconception that it's the end of the piktun (it isn't yet) or that there are no more digits the calendar can take (see the date I quoted: 19 mayan digits more.), so what? It's just a calendar.

Basically even if it were a roll-over, which it ain't, when your km counter on a car rolls over to all zeroes, the car doesn't explode or anything.

And we've been there with our own calendar rollovers in 1000AD and 2000AD, and nothing spectacular happened.

But then only now it occurs to me that I'm probably underestimating the kind of woo that gets air time in the name of (pseudo) impartiality.

ETA: Perhaps I am being too sensitive here. I have a friend who is a social worker who counsels at-risk youth. They are very much buying into the whole 2012 stuff ( Although for some reason they believe the 2012 end-times prophecies are tied int o crop circles). My point was that it is easy for people who do not share our passion for skepticism to fall for this kind of stuff.

You know what gets my goat, actually? I'm not even asking them to be properly skeptical. But even to be moderately gullible, you'd need some Mayan prophecy to believe. And there is none. It's just the end of a base-20 century.

Even if one wants to believe that the Mayans were some kind of astronomy geniuses (and a civilization with 360 day years ain't) or had teh l33t prophetic powers, ok, then show me the l336 Mayan prophecy for 2012. 'Cause precisely _if_ I were to go full-tilt gullible on the topic, and truly believe that the Mayans knew everything about astronomy and the future... then it seems to me like I can sleep without any worries on the night of the baktun end, because those Mayan grand-masters of prophecy didn't actually see anything worth predicting about that night.

[Ladewig]

Well, I can't pass actual judgment on the documentaries without actually seeing each of them, but I somewhat doubt that they invented a prophecy where there is none.


You are grossly overestimating American TV. That's why I put "documentaries" in quotes. These folks start with the Mayan calendar and then smoothly slide into Planet X, Nostradamus, and psychic predictions; which are all nonsense, but to the average History Channel viewer seem to be reasonable. These charlatans then throw in some stuff about precession and the alignment of the Earth with the center of the galaxy to produce enough technical language to give the whole thing the patina of being actual science. All sorts of woo folks are hitching their wagons to 2012 because they get added attention from it. Inventing prophecies always has been (and I fear always will be) a popular and profitable pastime.

[justcharlie09]

I know you put a smiley in your post to indicate that you were joking, but I don't think that this type of humor is entirely appropriate. There is a great deal of ignorance out there. Several cable channels run "documentaries" about the Mayan calendar and people not versed in skeptical thinking may believe them. These folks don't need psychiatric care. They need a better education system and a better way to evaluate unsupported claims.


ETA: Perhaps I am being too sensitive here. I have a friend who is a social worker who counsels at-risk youth. They are very much buying into the whole 2012 stuff ( Although for some reason they believe the 2012 end-times prophecies are tied int o crop circles). My point was that it is easy for people who do not share our passion for skepticism to fall for this kind of stuff.

Not entirely. A lot of times I laugh as a means of whistling past the graveyard. I was only being halfway facetious about psychiatric care. Hyping the "end of the world" or "end times" doesn't do anything positive for minds already vulnerable to delusions of one sort or another. It may be "all in good fun" for the History Channel, Discovery Channel, etc. to help hype these movies through shows like the Nostradamus Effect (or the rash of shows about conspiracy theories that accompanied the Dan Brown books/movies)...but to people with severe forms of depression, schizophrenia, antisocial personality disorders, etc... the impact could be quite serious. I wouldn't want to be a psychiatric or ER nurse on the night shift in the month of December 2012--I'll say that much.

Add that to the number of people who aren't just disturbed, but poorly educated (as you pointed out) and it isn't funny at all. Quite the opposite.

Can you imagine what would happen in our current world climate if someone perpetrated a hoax like the War of the Worlds radio broadcast?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/06/0617_050617_warworlds.html

[Nosi]

I, too, sometimes poke around the Rapture Ready site and I see that those folks are more than willing to use 2012 hoopla to promote their own viewpoints. On the actual Rapture Ready Index, "date setting" is one of the factors considered when calculating the index. The website lists all the 2012 books currently being published as evidence that we are now closer to the Rapture because people claiming that the date is nearly upon us is evidence that the date is nearly upon us.

This is getting funny, that RR site. First, they're using an Earth that has notoriously been fidgety all her life, long before humans stepped forth in Africa, to promote their aims. Now they pull out the calendar of a people they would otherwise wouldn't look twice at simply because it can be made to appear to dovetail with their ranting about end of said fidgety Earth. Oh, toss in humans who might have a naughty thought now and then.

Pass a clue please.

:id:

[Ralph]

Sounds like our only hope is to go out & kill all the atheists,fornicators, and homos.

I'm not sure if there's enough time left to get the job done.

[Hux]

Saw Michio Kaku on the box last night, answering questions on this 2010 crap. The guy asked him about the particular planetary alignment which will occur in December 2010. Kaku advised him that the alignment happens EVERY December, EVERY year!

He also said that date happened to be the end of the Mayan calendar but that it was also the start of a brand new cycle to them. It was no more the end of the world but the beginning of a new one. But, like he said, Hollywood speaks louder than science can.

[Minarvia]

So another crap reason to make a crap film. But the effects are good.....

A Bit like Cecil B. DeMilles "Ten Commandments".

Arghhh...yeah. Loved that guy's smug comment to the girl, "Yes, in the LIGHT it is gone." Bleh! :rolleyes:

[tsig]

That's true, TimCallahan.
Just what was predicted for those years, I wonder?


You will meet a tall, dark, handsome stranger who will sweep you off your feet?

[dudalb]

It seems odd to me that the Mayans could predict the end of the world in 2012, but somehow couldn't predict the destruction of their culture, along with that of the Aztecs, at the hands of the Spanish in the 1500s.

Was'nt much left of the Mayan Culture by the time the Spanish got there. The Toltecs and Axtecs did a pretty good job of destroying it. In face, a lot of Mayans supported the Spanish just to get payback.

[dudalb]

That RR review was right about the Special Effects being the only good thing in the movie (other then the laughs you get from the idiocy of much of the film) but wrong about everything else.

[Safe-Keeper]

My History and Philosophy teacher plans to take the class to see this film. I still want to have a chat with her and inform her that the film is nothing more than uninformed, meaningless Hollywood drivel, and that there are several other films running right now that would provide us with far better food for thought.

ETA: I love how the OP on Rapture Ready has a map showing recent earthquakes in his signature...

[cwalner]

No mention of sin or repentence in the movie. In fact never do they ask why all this is happening to the world, or ponder that maybe it's becuase of the rapant fornication and homosexuality and greed and false religion in the world and mass rejection of the Gospel that all these things are coming upon mankind.
Wow!! what complete failure to have actually seen the movie. The very fist scene attempts to explain this. Yes, the explanation is a giant steaming pile of pseudoscience BS, but it does explain, within the context of the movie, why the world is coming to an end. They are just upset that the answer is not 'Goddidit'. Also the ending does deal with sin and repentance, ableit in a much more secular (and atrociously sappy) fashion than is apparantly considered acceptable for the folks at RR.

It bugs me when people criticise artistic endeavors solely because they do not fit in with thier world view. It is such a weak criticism, especially with a movie like 2012, where there are so many other flaws, such as plot, character development, pacing, etc, which are actually relevent to whether it is a good piece of entertainment or not.

This reminds me of a review of the South Park movie from some family values website back when that movie came out. Another prime example of completely missing the point.

[bokonon]

Saw Michio Kaku on the box last night, answering questions on this 2010 crap. The guy asked him about the particular planetary alignment which will occur in December 2010. Kaku advised him that the alignment happens EVERY December, EVERY year!
I didn't see the Michio Kaku show, but the only planetary configuration I can think of that would happen every December would be the Earth, the Sun, and some object outside the solar system such as the center of the galaxy. Well, SOMETIME in December, the Sun, Moon, and Earth are aligned (actually twice -- SEM for the full moon, and SME for the new moon), but it's not likely to be the same day every year.

[bokonon]

That RR review was right about the Special Effects being the only good thing in the movie (other then the laughs you get from the idiocy of much of the film) but wrong about everything else.I saw a preview of one of the special effects sequences last month at a local computer graphics meeting, and had thought about going to the movie just for that. Given the length of the movie, though, I think it's going back in the "I can wait for the DVD" queue.

[Ralph]

My History and Philosophy teacher plans to take the class to see this film. I still want to have a chat with her and inform her that the film is nothing more than uninformed, meaningless Hollywood drivel, and that there are several other films running right now that would provide us with far better food for thought.

ETA: I love how the OP on Rapture Ready has a map showing recent earthquakes in his signature...


Nothing will put a smile on their faces like a good old-fashioned disaster in the world.....

Preferably in countrys populated mainly by heathens.........(Muslim countrys are best)..

The bigger the body count the better....................

[Nosi]

Saw Michio Kaku on the box last night, answering questions on this 2010 crap. The guy asked him about the particular planetary alignment which will occur in December 2010. Kaku advised him that the alignment happens EVERY December, EVERY year!

He also said that date happened to be the end of the Mayan calendar but that it was also the start of a brand new cycle to them. It was no more the end of the world but the beginning of a new one. But, like he said, Hollywood speaks louder than science can.

Something else happens oh-so-regular...but if I say the word I'd get the :rule10 happy slap so fast my head would spin. But it does happen!

[Hux]

http://fora.tv/2009/02/04/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson_The_Pluto_Files#Neil_deGrasse_ Tyson_World_Will_Not_End_in_2012

[Nosi]

They're still upset cuz Pluto got Plutoed? Does Pluto care?

[Darth Rotor]

It seems odd to me that the Mayans could predict the end of the world in 2012, but somehow couldn't predict the destruction of their culture, along with that of the Aztecs, at the hands of the Spanish in the 1500s.

Maybe they did, but forgot due to smoking too much excellent weed. ;)
Mark my words Hollywood, the true apocalypse will come upon the whole world, it will be a true and righteous judgement from God Almighty, upon wicked mankind. Mankind will attempt to unite together under the Antichrist to overcome it, but God will destroy them all and avenge the blood of the saints. God is awesome!

Well, he sure told them. *sigh*

[Abdul Alhazred]

Evidences the world will end in 2012! :eek:

Oprah -- Kaput in 2011 (http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/19/oprah-winfrey-last-show-2011/) (TMZ)

Oprah Winfrey just announced to her staff ... next season will be the last for her TV show. An Oprah insider tells TMZ "Oprah announced there will be layoffs after this season."

The final show will air in Sept 2011.

2011 marks the 25th year of the show -- one of the most successful in TV.

[Darth Rotor]

Evidences that there is a just and merciful God? Well, we have a data point here ...
Oprah Winfrey just announced to her staff ... next season will be the last for her TV show. An Oprah insider tells TMZ "Oprah announced there will be layoffs after this season."

The final show will air in Sept 2011.

DR

[justcharlie09]

Evidences that there is a just and merciful God? Well, we have a data point here ...

DR

I was thinking the same ^^^^

Where's the happy dance emoticon when you need it?

[Darth Rotor]

Where's the happy dance emoticon when you need it?
:Banane48:

Is that close enough?

[justcharlie09]

:Banane48:

Is that close enough?

Yes, perfect :)

[Ausmerican]

To paraphrase Penn Jillette, I have a calendar too and mine ends at the end of January 2010. Does that mean the world does too?

[HansMustermann]

Aw crap, now I'll never get a new Nvidia card. I hope you're happy, mister :(

[Moochie]

Isn't it already..? :confused:

Heh heh heh... I smiled when I read that in the "review."



M.