Animal Communicator

[Thug AMish]

Hello world, first post, and I was wondering if anyone could help me out convincing my parents not to hire an "Animal Communicator" for $65. I don't believe her claims, but whenever I try to tell my family that we shouldn't hire her, I get the usual "you aren't open minded, there is a world we don't know of, I'm older than you so I know more" stuff. I guess I need more of a persuasive way to get my family to understand skeptism, without sounding too condescending (if thats even possible ;) ) Anyways, here's some backround:

Dorris Straka is an "Animal Communicator" up here in NE Ohio, she apparently is "Helping you to better understand your pets and increase your relationship with your four-legged friends" This is also from her flyer, Animal Commmunications is the ability to open a telepathic communication line between animals and their families. Thus, helping them to better understand each other.
You can also learn to communicate with your own animal, on an individual basis or in a group workshop.
Dorris also claims to have a special gift (that none of us are blessed with) for communicating with animals all of her life. She is able to understand the emotional and physical troubles of animals. According to Dorris, "animlas not only tell you who they love, but why they love them."

Believe it or not, there are no testimonials on her flyer. She does though work with vets, message therapists, acupuncturists (animals??) and chiropractors. She does not share her educational backround.

Before I ramble much more, I'd like to add that my mom especially is emotional about animals, and since we got most of them at the pound (5 cats, 2 dogs, 4 horses :) ) and know little of their past. Would a horse even remember its past? Would it want to? I have way to many reasons not to even listen to this lady, but I can't organize them and not get angry when I'm talking :rm: I know that this lady is taking advantage of the many gullible animal owners around here. Anyways, a thorough, polite rebuttle of this telepathy would be great.

[Pyrrho]

Show them the results of a web search for "animal communicator" or "pet psychic". There are hundreds of these con artists out there.

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Tell them about the new movement called skeptiscientisuperioristism!

[Suezoled]

dont' mind the guy with Towelie the Avatar... he's funny but not good for advice.

[SteveGrenard]

Have you ever seen the movie or read the book "The Horse Whisperer?" Some people have "a way" w/animals. I didn't notice this person was making any direct psychic or paranormal claims but there are people who study animal behavior and know how to exploit that behavior for training purposes if that is the goal here. If its just to have a talk with the dog, find out if your folks' animals are happy and love them, that's another matter.

Also for the dogs, they can buy the Doggie Translator for half the price. Last night Jay Lenno talked about this device. The first thing the dog said after the device was turned on was to call his humans stupid for buying it.

[Demigorgon]

Tell her you'll be ok with it, and it'll prove you wrong at the same time if the communicator can start with a few control questions to prove her authenticity.

Since she can communicate with animals, ask her to give you the name of the pet, her exact age, where they were purchased. Then have her ask the pet (telepathicaly) to go somewhere, like into the bathroom, and climb into the shower.

Of course she won't agree to this before getting her fee first.

[Suezoled]

Feh. Horse Whisperer was merely a mainstreaming of a training technique that horse trainers have been using for centuries. Its history supposedly dates back to when Alexander the great was riding into war, and horses were encouraged to trust their rider instead of listening to instinct and fleeing.

It's not whispering, it's paying attention to body language and replying in kind. It's not reading their minds, but their posture, step, head tilts, even facial expression (is his eye wide? is it calm? is it droopy?). Nothing paranormal about it.

[CFLarsen]

Clever Hans (http://www.skepdic.com/cleverhans.html)

[Lisa]

First of all Thug AMish, welcome to the board.:)
I really don't know why people spend that amount of cash on "animal pychics". If you're having problems with a pet, that money would be better spent on a vet with really good training in animal behavior.
My Anja can be a real handfull. I took her to a vet like this, and she spent about an hour talking to me and testing the dog. Conclusion: Anja is a hyper-aggressive raving lunatic that should have been put down at birth. I'd gotten that far myself, but the vet gave me some excellent tips about dealing with the situation and behavior modification.
And it sure as hell didn't cost me $65.

[Thug AMish]

thanks, anyways I am fully aware of 'horse whispering', and it does work pretty well. It isn't anything paranormal, its just being very observent and aware of the horse's movement, body language, etc. Horses obviously are dumb herd animals, but many people just like to whip them constantly and expect results

anyways, what I'm worried about is her actually coming over here, do here cold reading (thats what I guess it is) and have my family fall for the normal confirmation bias kind of stuff. She also charges $45 for a 'phone consultation'. Wonder what that is. She's worked with birds, iquanas, and sheep too. What the hell do these animals have to say anyways? :confused:

[Clancie]

Hi. Welcome.

You don't say, but I'm wondering what's motivated this? Perhaps its something a vet could address...or are they curious about specific problem with a particular animal...or...?

If they decide to go ahead, they should at least ask her for some references from past clients with a similar situation to theirs. (She may not be able to provide this, and it may be a gentle way to discourage them using her if she can't...)

Also, even if they spend the money, afterwards they may feel it was a waste after all, if she turns out to be exactly what you expect. That experience ("Why'd we spend $65 for that?") can be "valuable", too.....

[Pyrrho]

Animals have anything to say that the "animal communicator" thinks of.

All of these frauds charge stiff prices for telephone consultations. I mean, really...bad enough when psychics do this, but for an animal that cannot communicate using human language at all...

You might try pointing out to your parents that they know their pet better than anyone.

Doris Straka links:

http://www.newsnet5.com/specialassignment/1999733/detail.html

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:Mv1QtVn7YwcJ:groups.yahoo.com/group/psykids/message/2400%3Fsource%3D1+doris+straka+animal+communicator&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

At the end of the day, however, your parents are going to do whatever they want. Maybe the best thing will be to let them waste their money. With luck, they'll learn something.


edited to add: a Google search turns up over 60,000 pages on animal communicators. Most of these are web pages touting the services of these frauds.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&q=animal+communicator

Just how many people have this unique gift?

[SteveGrenard]

For those with a serious scientific interest in this subject they might want to visit the following website of the American Zoologist (now: Integrative and Comparative Biology). American Zoologist - Volume 40, Number 6
December 2000.

Abstracts for all articles and full-text for Open Access articles are available to everyone. For full text you have to subscribe.

Symposium on Animal Consciousness-Abstracts Here (free read):

http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-toc&issn=0003-1569&volume=040&issue=06


From their websites as cited within text:

"The American Zoologist is one of the most cited and highly respected journals in the biology field. (Name changed to Integrative and Comparative Biology in 2002.) Electronic URL:http://www.sicb.org/public/publications/ Subscription URL:http://www.sicb.org/index.php3

"Publisher/Society Information: Name:The Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology Description:The Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology (SICB) is one of the largest and most prestigious professional associations of its kind. The SICB is organized around 11 divisions, each relevant to a major segment of biology. The society is dedicated to promoting the pursuit and public dissemination of important information relating to biology."

[Paladin]

For those with a serious practical interest in protecting their loved ones from criminals:

http://www.mfaaa.org/agingmatters/98winter/cons.html

The con artist has no conscience, and to him, you are nothing more than a source of income. With no concern for the consequences you will suffer, he uses psychology and doubletalk to gain your confidence. He will use your trust and good nature against you to take you for every cent he can get.

http://www.gofso.com/Premium/LE/16_le_as/fg/fg-Scams.html

Make sure you and your family never fall prey to the schemes and cons that pervade all aspects of American life. Learn to recognize con artists and send them on their way before parting with any of your hard-earned money.

http://www.auroraborealiz.com/psychicfrauds.html
We would all love to believe we live in an ethical honest world. However the truth is that there are dangers and scams at every corner in the path of life. This is true even in the Psychic Industry.

[William H.]

I would feed the animal something really unusual (witnessed by your parents), maybe something really spicy, or sweet, or raw meat, anything that would be memorable, and have the psychic say what it was.

Or I'd do some type of unusual activity with it, maybe get it dizzy, or throw it in the pool or creek, put it in a box for a few minutes, something it wouldn't forget. Then see if she can determine what activity the animal participated in.

If she fails the test and your parents still believe, then I'd say there's nothing more you can do.

[Paladin]

If I had the bucks to throw away, I'd call up this animal communicator and have her do a remote reading on my dog. I'm almost curious enough to waste the money, and almost twisted enough, but not quite enough.

[Thug AMish]

You don't say, but I'm wondering what's motivated this? Perhaps its something a vet could address...or are they curious about specific problem with a particular animal...or...?

yes, the vet said to put a horse down, we didn't, and its still alive and kicking a year later. vets aren't perfect, obviously. I am curious on what she'll say (we have two fish hehe), but the price seems a little steep ($5 would be too much). I'll try to make a point that she's a fraud, I'll recap round 3 of negotiations later. :)

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by Clancie
If they decide to go ahead, they should at least ask her for some references from past clients with a similar situation to theirs. (She may not be able to provide this, and it may be a gentle way to discourage them using her if she can't...)

Also, even if they spend the money, afterwards they may feel it was a waste after all, if she turns out to be exactly what you expect. That experience ("Why'd we spend $65 for that?") can be "valuable", too.....
One wonders why one would spend $65 for nothing and feel they gained an experience? Particularly when, for free, they can get the experience of calling consumer fraud and delight in the knowledge they helped stop her from ripping off others.

[Clancie]

Posted by Bill Hoyt

...for free, they can get the experience of calling consumer fraud and delight in the knowledge they helped stop her from ripping off others.
Fraud's a crime, Bill, and is difficult to prove when it comes to psychic claims.

Are you really this naive?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Clancie
Fraud's a crime, Bill, and is difficult to prove when it comes to psychic claims.

The New York state penal code states that fortune-telling is illegal. The definition is:

Anyone who claims or pretends to tell fortunes, or holds himself out as being able, by claimed or pretended use of occult powers, to answer questions or give advice on personal matters or to exorcise, influence or affect evil spirits or curses.

The law does not apply to people who do it as part of a show or exhibition solely for the purposes of entertainment or
amusement.

It's not difficult at all, Clancie: Just look for the little sign that says "For entertainment purposes only". If it's not there, it's a crime.

John Edward knows this. You know this.

Originally posted by Clancie
Are you really this naive?

Are you really this disingenious?

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by Clancie

Fraud's a crime, Bill, and is difficult to prove when it comes to psychic claims.

Are you really this naive?
I guess, as with other things in life, the proof of naivete is in the pudding.

Now I said "calling consumer fraud," as in contacting the department. I didn't say they needed to charge her with fraud in a civil suit. There are many legal definitions of fraud. Some of the legal theories are very easy to demonstrate, despite your claim that it is "difficult."

Under the Uniform Deceptive Acts and Practices Laws (UDAP), "Deception" can be easily demonstrated. There needn't be warranty or contract breaches. There needn't be negligence, nor evil intent or breach of agreement! The demonstration is just that the consumer has been mislead by the seller's actions or statements.

In Ohio, it comes under the Ohio Revised Codes, section 1345.01
Source (http://www.skepticfiles.org/skep2/consprot.htm)

But now, Clancie, we have to look more closely at what I said and what you said. I said "calling consumer fraud," I didn't say charging her with fraud. One can call consumer fraud when one things someone is out there scamming. One needn't become a victim first.

So why should they lose the $65 clancie? Do you employ the same reasoning when you get phone calls offering you gifts if you just give them your credit card number to cover the shipping and handling? If not, what is the difference?

[Jaggy Bunnet]

From the first post on the thread:

Animal Commmunications is the ability to open a telepathic communication line between animals and their families.

and:

Dorris also claims to have a special gift (that none of us are blessed with) for communicating with animals all of her life. She is able to understand the emotional and physical troubles of animals. According to Dorris, "animlas not only tell you who they love, but why they love them."

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
I didn't notice this person was making any direct psychic or paranormal claims....

I hope that means you didn't read the post properly rather than don't consider these paranormal claims.

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
For those with a serious scientific interest in this subject they might want to visit the following website of the American Zoologist (now: Integrative and Comparative Biology). American Zoologist - Volume 40, Number 6
December 2000.

Abstracts for all articles and full-text for Open Access articles are available to everyone. For full text you have to subscribe.

Symposium on Animal Consciousness-Abstracts Here (free read):

http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-toc&issn=0003-1569&volume=040&issue=06


From their websites as cited within text:

"The American Zoologist is one of the most cited and highly respected journals in the biology field. (Name changed to Integrative and Comparative Biology in 2002.) Electronic URL:http://www.sicb.org/public/publications/ Subscription URL:http://www.sicb.org/index.php3

"Publisher/Society Information: Name:The Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology Description:The Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology (SICB) is one of the largest and most prestigious professional associations of its kind. The SICB is organized around 11 divisions, each relevant to a major segment of biology. The society is dedicated to promoting the pursuit and public dissemination of important information relating to biology."
Very interesting post, worthy of deconstruction. "Serious scientific interest in this subject" might cause the casual reader to think this society and its journal discuss animal communication. After all, the thread's subject is animal communication. In following the link provided, though, one finds papers on animal consciousness, an entirely different matter. And, of course, actually scientific and quite unlike the flim-flammery of animal communicators. Curious minds might wonder if a simple misunderstanding of the thread's topic is afoot? Or perhaps a misread of the papers is afoot? Or perhaps something else is afoot? More deconstruction, please.

Ah, yes, and we also see (and highlighted for your diining and dancing pleasure) the repeated references to the society's status and reputation. My, my, we must ask why.

Anybody who can guess the reason for this post, please write it down on a slip of paper. Roll the slip into a ball and feed it to your pet boa. Then contact the zoologists until you find one who is willing to try to remotely view your boa's stomach contents and reveal the answer here, live, on JREF. Bonus points if you can name the deceptive technique being employed in the above-quoted post. Write it on a separate slip, and plese feed that to the same boa. You're gonna have a tough enough time finding one willing zoologist, let alone two. All results will be documented in an upcoming issue of Annals of Improbable Research.

[SteveGrenard]

Jaggy: I hope that means you didn't read the post properly rather than don't consider these paranormal claims.

The first post contained nothing one would consider either psychic or paranormal. Animal behaviorists and animal owners can and do communicate with their animals through mutual recognition of each other's subtle and not so subtle cues. Can you tell when your dog wants to go out? Wants to eat? My dog goes to the sink when he wants water but he doesn't tell me.
How about when animals are sick or feeling down? I suppose you could argue the term telepathy as paranormal but what does generic telepathy really define under these circumstances?

If this person is a flim-flam artist and I am not saying she isn't, she carefully crafted her brochure so as to not make any psychic or paranormal claims. PS: My response was based on the first post in this thread, not the subsequent expansion of the topic.

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
The first post contained nothing one would consider either psychic or paranormal.

Animal Commmunications is the ability to open a telepathic communication line between animals and their families.

[Jeff Corey]

From the first post, "Animal Communications is the ability to open a telepathic link..."
I'd say that was a clear paranormal claim that had nothing to do with anything an animal behaviorist would be interested in.

Edited to say, you beat me to it, hombre.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
Jaggy: I hope that means you didn't read the post properly rather than don't consider these paranormal claims.

The first post contained nothing one would consider either psychic or paranormal. Animal behaviorists and animal owners can and do communicate with their animals through mutual recognition of each other's subtle and not so subtle cues. Can you tell when your dog wants to go out? Wants to eat? My dog goes to the sink when he wants water but he doesn't tell me.
How about when animals are sick or feeling down? I suppose you could argue the term telepathy as paranormal but what does generic telepathy really define under these circumstances?

Nonverbal communication is not telepathy. When we interpret and/or respond to an animal's physical behavior, we are not experiencing telepathy.

If this person is a flim-flam artist and I am not saying she isn't, she carefully crafted her brochure so as to not make any psychic or paranormal claims. PS: My response was based on the first post in this thread, not the subsequent expansion of the topic.
If she claims the ability to create telepathic links with animals, she's making a paranormal claim.

At the very least, the claim places animals on an equal level -- if not a superior level -- with humans, as far as mental capacity is concerned. Sorry -- I loved my dog, but she was still just a dog.

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
From the first post, "Animal Communications is the ability to open a telepathic link..."
I'd say that was a clear paranormal claim that had nothing to do with anything an animal behaviorist would be interested in.

Edited to say, you beat me to it, hombre.
Fastest keyboard in the west, pardner. I am west of you, right? Oh, well.

[Flaherty]

Originally posted by Thug AMish
Hello world, first post, and I was wondering if anyone could help me out convincing my parents not to hire an "Animal Communicator" for $65.

Tell them that for $65 they could buy several books on how to really communicate with dogs using methods proven effective by animal behavior scientists. Among them are "How to be your dog's best friend" and "The art of raising a puppy" by the Monks of New Skete.

If that doesn't work, make sure you are at the session when the psychic does her thing. During the session, when she says something vague or general that could be true for any dog (like "your dog likes bones"), tell her this is not useful information because everyone already knows these things.

If she makes specific statements like, "Fifi misses her mother or she is worried about the dog across the street," ask her how she knows this and how can you be sure she's not just making this stuff up.

In short, use questions like these during the psychic's performance to demonstrate to your parents that they just wasted $65.

Sometimes a warning is not enough; a child has to touch a hot burner to learn he has to stay away from it.

[SteveGrenard]

Since we are recommending dog books now, I nominate:

277 Secrets Your Dog Wants You to Know: A Doggie Bag of Unusual and Useful Information

by Paulette Cooper and Paul Noble

(Its on amazon.com for ten dollars)

Paulette Cooper was supposed to be at TAM2 but couldn't make it. She is the writer who went head to head with the scientologists (search: Paulette Cooper and scientology).

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
Since we are recommending dog books now, I nominate:


Since we are deflecting now, how about we return to the assertions that this thread is not about paranormal claims and that that zoological society has something scientific to say about the paranormal topic of this thread?

[pupdog]

If I didn't have my Facilitated Communications aide to help me, I wouldn't be able to talk to this list. Arf! I suggest you just read the astrology column in the newspaper and spend the money on bones & beer.

[Rolfe]

I'm sure this has been said before, but I'll say it again.

Every time this silly subject comes up on vet lists, the killer line tends to be the simple observation that none of these pet telepathists ever knows the pet's name without being told. That's right, just the one single word in the entire universe of supreme importance to the animal.

Then lots of silly remarks about us using animal communication all the time (often including words that the mods would asterisk off this post), and the animals usually getting the message.

Animal handling, behaviourism and so on are perfectly respectable. Telepathy isn't.

Actually, didn't someone on another thread here have a story about a TV show involving a pet psychic who was privately primed with false information that a horse liked bananas but not carrots? She duly "read" this preference, and wouldn't be dissuaded even when the horse was seen to gobble carrots happily but turn away from and spit out bananas. Anyone have the link?

Rolfe.

[magicflute]

If you can't convince them not to call the Pet Psycho, then teach them a lesson. Offer them to pay for the session if you are wrong about this being bogus, otherwise they pay. Borrow a dog from someone else, and see if the dog tells the Psycho the truth. Yes, it may cost them $65 but it should make them thinks twice about the next scam. The lesson will be worth the money.

[!Xx-Credulous-xX!]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!
Tell them about the new movement called skeptiscientisuperioristism!

Don't you believe in animal communication? It could happen by pheremones or telepathy or empathy. I think all animals are at least as intelligent as humans, and could help us to become in tune with nature. Or communicate with extra terrestrieals! Oh, and extra terrestrieals could be spirits from the other side! The wisdom we could learn if we only opened our minds! But I won't hold it against you !Xx-Rational-xX!, I will light a scented candle for you, in the hopes that your awakening to the spirit realm is soon.

Peace and happiness to your inner child!

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Originally posted by !Xx-Credulous-xX!


Don't you believe in animal communication? It could happen by pheremones or telepathy or empathy. I think all animals are at least as intelligent as humans, and could help us to become in tune with nature. Or communicate with extra terrestrieals! Oh, and extra terrestrieals could be spirits from the other side! The wisdom we could learn if we only opened our minds! But I won't hold it against you !Xx-Rational-xX!, I will light a scented candle for you, in the hopes that your awakening to the spirit realm is soon.

Peace and happiness to your inner child!

It is tempting to get irrational and believe in fairy tales because woo-woo beliefs have the wishful thinking appeal! We must remain critical and rise above this because us skeptics were given special traits not present in the rest of the population! It is not to late to switch sides! By the way it's best if people with the !Xx don't use periods!

[!Xx-Credulous-xX!]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!


It is tempting to get irrational and believe in fairy tales because woo-woo beliefs have the wishful thinking appeal! We must remain critical and rise above this because us skeptics were given special traits not present in the rest of the population! It is not to late to switch sides! By the way it's best if people with the !Xx don't use periods!

The world is more fabulous than you can ever imagine !Xx+Rational-+xX! you are closed minded to the possibilites that surround us the only possibilites that are impossible are the skeptical explanations!

And thanks for the tip about the periods I wouldnt want to mess up the tradition of the !XX :D

I'll never switch sides BTW being credulous means I can live without eating, thus saving me tons of money on groceries and I don't have to pay my rent or bills because I don't believe that the landlord or utility companies exist in my quantum reality!

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Science makes it no secret that materialism is a 100 percent proven fact so everything outside of it must be rejected and scoffed out of existence! It is not too late to join the righteous critical minded side that is never wrong in it's materialistic view of how reality should be! If you won't switch sides can you at least agree that dreaming doesn't exist!?

[!Xx-Credulous-xX!]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!
Science makes it no secret that materialism is a 100 percent proven fact so everything outside of it must be rejected and scoffed out of existence! It is not too late to join the righteous critical minded side that is never wrong in it's materialistic view of how reality should be! If you won't switch sides can you at least agree that dreaming doesn't exist!?

Impossible since my dreams come true every day! You see, we all live in a cosmos that is attuned to our perceptions (Quantum Reality) our observations literally make reality! Anything you think is true is really your own observations shifting you into a different quantum reality the question is wether you are drawing reality to your universe or travelling to another universe where your perceptions are true so therefore not only is the supernatural true but it cannot contradict itself either! I only hope and pray that your materialistic atheist tendencies do not blind you to the true reality of non-relative reality that is really reality!

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Originally posted by !Xx-Credulous-xX!


Impossible since my dreams come true every day! You see, we all live in a cosmos that is attuned to our perceptions (Quantum Reality) our observations literally make reality! Anything you think is true is really your own observations shifting you into a different quantum reality the question is wether you are drawing reality to your universe or travelling to another universe where your perceptions are true so therefore not only is the supernatural true but it cannot contradict itself either! I only hope and pray that your materialistic atheist tendencies do not blind you to the true reality of non-relative reality that is really reality!

Dreams must be false because they are not proven and there is zero evidence making them impossible! Even if they do exist they don’t because they aren’t proven and if something isn’t proven it’s impossible and if it’s impossible woo-woos won’t be able to show any evidence for something impossible to begin with! All skeptics want is evidence and dreams must be considered false delusions until someone claims the money of Mr. James Rand of the James Randi Educational Foundation by showing dreams to be true but I have already explained why they can’t!

I have debunked dreaming in this link!
http://www.geocities.com/xx_rational_xx/d.html

[Pyrrho]

This thread has been reported on suspicions of illicit sockpuppetry. No specific rule against it, although Hal has said he'd like to discourage the practice. Also, people might not take kindly to having their threads hijacked. I'm pretty sure the two socks are separate people, though.

[SteveGrenard]

Maybe they're sock puppies.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
Maybe they're sock puppies.
Woof.

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
This thread has been reported on suspicions of illicit sockpuppetry. No specific rule against it, although Hal has said he'd like to discourage the practice. Also, people might not take kindly to having their threads hijacked. I'm pretty sure the two socks are separate people, though.

If I were the one who created !Xx-Credulous-xX! you can be sure that I'd stop if I got a PM from a mod. (And they would know quite easily who it is, too.) Unlike !Xx+-Rational-+xX!, I would have no intentions of spamming a thread, but I might be childish enough to counter-spam if I felt he was getting out of hand and I wanted to make a point.

Personally, I think !Xx+-Rational-+xX! has already attempted to derail all the threads he's been in.

[Ratman_tf]

Actually, I'll come out and say it was me, for the aforementioned reasons, and that !Xx-Credulous-xX! charming though that persona is, won't be making any more appearances.

I was on the parent's computer and they had Netscape and IE on the same computer, making it easy to switch between personas without clearing out cookies or anything like that. But I'm home now and it's too much trouble to clear my internet cache out every login, or download Netscape.

Ah well.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
Maybe they're sock puppies.

What, like the one you created on TVTalkshows ("Jeanne")?

Hey, it takes one to know one....

[Yahweh]

If there are sockpuppetry problems: You've got an ignore list, feel free to use them at any time...

[LFTKBS]

I rather liked !Xx-Credulous-xX!. It was a pretty surreal thread.

[Kopji]

Since you're going to lose $65 bucks anyway, might as well have a fun evening of it. Pay the $65, but have the neighbors and their pets meet at your place about 15 minutes ahead of the psychic. With everyone together in a circle, switch pets.

The pet psychic could then ask each pet in turn who its real owner was. After the pets were correctly sorted out, the reading could begin.

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Originally posted by Ratman_tf
Actually, I'll come out and say it was me, for the aforementioned reasons, and that !Xx-Credulous-xX! charming though that persona is, won't be making any more appearances.

I was on the parent's computer and they had Netscape and IE on the same computer, making it easy to switch between personas without clearing out cookies or anything like that. But I'm home now and it's too much trouble to clear my internet cache out every login, or download Netscape.

Ah well.

This is unfortunate I never got enough of a chance to convert !Xx-Credulous-xX! to skeptiscientisuperioristism!

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Maybe someone else besides this rational troll should create another !Xx+- account!

[Jeff Corey]

Maybe you should just pet the psychic. I know that $65 for just petting is a little steep, but since lapdancers get over a clam, it may be worth it.
Use protection and wash thoroughly with Penta Water after.

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!
Maybe someone else besides this rational troll should create another !Xx+- account!
Maybe, maybe not. My money's on "not".

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!


This is unfortunate I never got enough of a chance to convert !Xx-Credulous-xX! to skeptiscientisuperioristism!

(Normally, I have you on Ignore, but considering the current situation, I'll give you a reply.)

You're a grand example of the general petiness of Woo-Woos. I can never keep a sock puppet account running because I don't like to mislead people for long. You, on the other hand, seem to revel in misleading people and trying to get a rise out of skeptics by childish taunting.

(Goes back to ignoring.)

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Originally posted by Ratman_tf


(Normally, I have you on Ignore, but considering the current situation, I'll give you a reply.)

You're a grand example of the general petiness of Woo-Woos. I can never keep a sock puppet account running because I don't like to mislead people for long. You, on the other hand, seem to revel in misleading people and trying to get a rise out of skeptics by childish taunting.

(Goes back to ignoring.)

I'm no woo-woo I came here to motivate skeptics to be harder on the believers because most skeptics are just too soft when it comes to squashing false views (even tbk)! I also have the common skeptical trait of not being able to bring an argument to an end!

[Blondin]

I have an Aunt who is a fish whisperer...:)

[Darwin'sGoat]

I wonder if she could give me a good reading on my pet rock.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
Jaggy: I hope that means you didn't read the post properly rather than don't consider these paranormal claims.

The first post contained nothing one would consider either psychic or paranormal. <snip> I suppose you could argue the term telepathy as paranormal but what does generic telepathy really define under these circumstances?

If this person is a flim-flam artist and I am not saying she isn't, she carefully crafted her brochure so as to not make any psychic or paranormal claims.

Can you tell me when you consider telepathy to be anything other than paranormal?

She claims to be able to establish a telepathic connection. Are you really saying that this is not a psychic or paranormal claim?

[Drooper]

Interesting thread. I can't wait for the conlusion.

However, there is an crucial question that nobody here has yet asked. And one you might put to your parents.

What exactly is it that you parents think your dog might know, but they do not?

[IPFreeley]

Does this animal psychic mention anywhere that it's for entertainment or amusement purposes only? If so, you could use that to your advantage to discourage this thing.

Whilst waiting for a table at Outback, I read a women's magazine in which there was an article about that crazy lady on animal planet that's supposed to comminicate with animals. The essay mentioned how even a common layman can do it. You're just supposed to concentrate on your animal or something and listen to what your animal says. People will just make up something in their heads and then convince themselves they communicated! I should have taken the magazine so I could have written a reply back about these charlatans.

[Jas]

Maybe see if they are up to seeing a behaviourist first. A lot of animalshelters (including the one I'm at), have them onstaff, and often they will give free advice (part of their job description is to counsel people through behavioural problems so that the animals doesn't end up at the shelter), or at least be able to refer you to reputable behaviourists and trainers in the area.