Informal Survey Reveals Standard of Thinking and Character

[Laughing Bear]

Informal Survey Reveals Standard of Thinking and Character

Having been somewhat confounded by the chaotic flurry of posts in various subjects, it seemed interesting to make a first post on a subject in which I have sufficient expertise to mount cogent arguments, and to load it with nuances that can run unskilled thinkers off into the weeds.

Why would I do that ?

James Randi’s career as an illusionist sets an unambiguous precedent for such an underhanded approach to gullibilty and careless thinking, so who can complain ?
And I am actually looking for people who can really think, as distinct from parroting what they have picked up elsewhere (to spell that out, dumb people have no concept of what a tedious imposition they are).

One thing that the survey revealed was a lack of invitations to expand the reasoning behind the central hypothsis. Since those who responded to “Assumists miss the Big Picture” missed the central hypothesis, it shall here be explicitly re-stated : That the grotesque disparity between mankind’s technical intelligence and crippling philosophies requires careful examination in search of an explanation.
Instead of picking up on that important theme and developing it, the responses give the appearance of a carnival shooting gallery, in which drunken revellers aim to ridicule or dispute absolutely everything.
There were even people who could not work out the nationality of the famous country invaded 500 years ago by genocidal Christians !
Ye Gods and Little Fishes !
And this is in a moderated forum run under the auspices of an organisation that proclaims itself to be an Educational Foundation in the subject of skills in thinking.
How can anyone fail to understand that a realistic Big Picture is entirely unreachable for those who incorporate stupid assumptions in their thinking ?
Yet there were posts from individuals who took this self-evident fact as a personal insult !
An assumption that instantly sabotages productive discussion.
How much proof does it take, to get people to accept that there is something suspicious about interpersonal stupidity passing for normal in a “civilisation” that has been building supersonic aircraft for decades ?
In a forum section titled “Philosophy and Religion”, no less !
One nice fellow did, however, remark admiringly on its boldness for a first post, as if he too understood the forum to be nothing more than a nihilists’ shooting gallery.
Having not found anyone capable of discussing a new idea, no further effort will be wasted on those who have invested their consciousness in things so futile as belligerent cynicism and boundless self-importance.

[Hokulele]

Having not found anyone capable of discussing a new idea, no further effort will be wasted on those who have invested their consciousness in things so futile as belligerent cynicism and boundless self-importance.


OK.

[Eyeron]

You really need to format your paragraphs a little better.

But the thing you're missing is that with critical thinkers, at least on this particular forum, is that they will look at exactly what you say and won't go for any kind of inference of hidden meaning, they look for literal meaning and discussions. Indeed, they get upset at people who won't post in a particular format which is a particular format that they are used to and will only go by that format. What ever that format is, I don't know.

[Ausmerican]

To paraphrase some old book; Remove the profusion of fallacies from thine own posts before worrying about those of thy critics, Laughing Bear. Or as the kids say these days "kthxbye".

[Gord_in_Toronto]

<snip>

That the grotesque disparity between mankind’s technical intelligence and crippling philosophies requires careful examination in search of an explanation.


Well sure it does. Got any ideas? We are the products of some billions of years of evolution, a sort of raggedy walk without direction. As a race we search for understanding. We have had to in order to survive. Some of what we "understand" is not true for reasons of our biology and societies, some of it is.

There is a plethora of philosophy and science may explain this more completely. Nothing of it has anything to do with blood suckers or other wooish nonsense.

Over to you. ;)

[Foster Zygote]

One thing that the survey revealed was a lack of invitations to expand the reasoning behind the central hypothsis. Since those who responded to “Assumists miss the Big Picture” missed the central hypothesis, it shall here be explicitly re-stated : That the grotesque disparity between mankind’s technical intelligence and crippling philosophies requires careful examination in search of an explanation.
This was addressed by me in post #16:
Such magical thinking seems to be at least an artifact or an emergent property of fundamental features of human psychology. - It may be that we have supersonic aircraft and the ability to talk to someone on the other side of the globe in real time because we have the drive to figure out how things work and the imagination to construct gods to explain the things we don't understand.
I couldn't help but notice that you failed to respond.

Instead of picking up on that important theme and developing it, the responses give the appearance of a carnival shooting gallery, in which drunken revellers aim to ridicule or dispute absolutely everything.
To be fair, your opening post was a target rich environment. It's not surprising that it would resemble the Marianas Turkey Shoot.

There were even people who could not work out the nationality of the famous country invaded 500 years ago by genocidal Christians!
Actually, we were trying to work out which particular Native American culture you identify yourself with, given that you ignored queries regarding this subject. There weren't that many native cultures known to include 'soul-eaters' among their folklore so it is likely that you would be referring to either Chickasaw, Choctaw or Natchez. As these cultures were first encountered by Hernando de Soto around 1540 it seems even more likely that these might be the cultures you refer to. Again, you have been asked directly and your further evasion might give some the impression that you are just playing infantile games. I also have to wonder at the depth of your connection to any Native American nations given your practice of lumping all native cultures into a monolithic whole.

Ye Gods and Little Fishes !
Don't forget the Smurfs!

And this is in a moderated forum run under the auspices of an organisation that proclaims itself to be an Educational Foundation in the subject of skills in thinking.
At least some of us know the difference between the Tanakh and the Talmud.

How can anyone fail to understand that a realistic Big Picture is entirely unreachable for those who incorporate stupid assumptions in their thinking ?
How is belief in soul-eaters any less stupid than belief in YHWH or Leprechauns?

How much proof does it take, to get people to accept that there is something suspicious about interpersonal stupidity passing for normal in a “civilisation” that has been building supersonic aircraft for decades ?
A hell of a lot more than you've provided. Do you even know how a supersonic aircraft works? Could you design and build one from scratch? As a species we have the ability to pass our gained knowledge to the next generation in great detail. We have supersonic aircraft (and a great many far more impressive technologies that aren't over 60 years old) because of generation after generation of people applying the scientific method to a great deal of accumulated knowledge, thus advancing the frontiers of discovery in many small steps and the occasional big jump. That same process, applied to fields like psychology and sociology, has led to far more plausible explanations for the existence of superstitions and magical thinking than you have offered.

In a forum section titled “Philosophy and Religion”, no less !
One needn't believe in the gods of Olympus to study and discuss Greek mythology.

One nice fellow did, however, remark admiringly on its boldness for a first post, as if he too understood the forum to be nothing more than a nihilists’ shooting gallery.
That's an awful lot to infer from Quarky's post. And I don't think his (her?) comment on boldness was as positive as you'd like to think regarding the validity of your hypothesis.

Having not found anyone capable of discussing a new idea, no further effort will be wasted on those who have invested their consciousness in things so futile as belligerent cynicism and boundless self-importance.
So, you're saying you don't like self-importance?

[Pure Argent]

One thing that the survey revealed was a lack of invitations to expand the reasoning behind the central hypothsis. Since those who responded to “Assumists miss the Big Picture” missed the central hypothesis, it shall here be explicitly re-stated : That the grotesque disparity between mankind’s technical intelligence and crippling philosophies requires careful examination in search of an explanation.
Instead of picking up on that important theme and developing it, the responses give the appearance of a carnival shooting gallery, in which drunken revellers aim to ridicule or dispute absolutely everything.

Why would you lie about your own position? You did not bring up this subject and ask why it was that this was happening. You brought up this subject and offered the explanation that it was caused by external, non-human forces that were completely undetectable through conventional means. This assertion was laughed down, and rightly so, due to its complete and utter lack of supporting evidence.
We only ridicule what deserves ridicule, Laughing Bear. If you want to try and justify that with your own ego, go right ahead. Keep telling yourself that we're all just ignorant boobs who don't want to know the truth. But the fact remains that you have yet to produce a single shred of evidence to support your contentions, and until you do so, they will continue to be dismissed offhand.

[Robin]

One thing that the survey revealed was a lack of invitations to expand the reasoning behind the central hypothsis.
I went and checked - there was more than one such invitation and you didn't respond.

Since you are so ostentatiously trumpetting your superiority as a thinker - why don't you simply provide us a demonstration of this alleged intellectual prowess and take up the invitations to expand the reasoning behind your central hypothesis?

[Fiona]

Why would I do that ?

That is a very good question: I can think of a number of reasons.

What you seem to say is, first: because I can; and, second, because you are testing whether people have some variation of thinking skills

For me, I can certainly accept the first: I bet you can fart at dinner as well. As to the second:most people responded to various parts of your post on the assumption that you were honest. That they seem to have been wrong about that is not, IMVHO, a fault in them. One or two did realise that you were a mere puppeteer (or troll, if you prefer). They were right. That is clever of them, but it is not to your credit. Again IMO

[arthwollipot]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_43324ae650852e6e8.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=18022)

[PixyMisa]

Informal Survey Reveals Standard of Thinking and Character

Having been somewhat confounded by the chaotic flurry of posts in various subjects, it seemed interesting to make a first post on a subject in which I have sufficient expertise to mount cogent arguments, and to load it with nuances that can run unskilled thinkers off into the weeds.
Said expertise has not been in evidence.

Why would I do that ?
You have yet to do anything.

James Randi’s career as an illusionist sets an unambiguous precedent for such an underhanded approach to gullibilty and careless thinking, so who can complain ?
Ad hominem, strawman, non-sequitur, possibly hoist by your own petard.

And I am actually looking for people who can really think, as distinct from parroting what they have picked up elsewhere (to spell that out, dumb people have no concept of what a tedious imposition they are).
Indeed. Have you read Unskilled and unaware of it?

One thing that the survey revealed was a lack of invitations to expand the reasoning behind the central hypothsis.
You did not present a hypothesis.

Since those who responded to “Assumists miss the Big Picture” missed the central hypothesis, it shall here be explicitly re-stated : That the grotesque disparity between mankind’s technical intelligence and crippling philosophies requires careful examination in search of an explanation.
What disparity? And even if you were to establish such a disparity, why would it need such examination?

Instead of picking up on that important theme and developing it, the responses give the appearance of a carnival shooting gallery, in which drunken revellers aim to ridicule or dispute absolutely everything.
Not at all. We only ridicule the ridiculous.

There were even people who could not work out the nationality of the famous country invaded 500 years ago by genocidal Christians !
Check your history books. There is good reason for this.

Ye Gods and Little Fishes !
Hmm?

And this is in a moderated forum run under the auspices of an organisation that proclaims itself to be an Educational Foundation in the subject of skills in thinking.
Yes. This is correct.

How can anyone fail to understand that a realistic Big Picture is entirely unreachable for those who incorporate stupid assumptions in their thinking ?
You tell us.

Yet there were posts from individuals who took this self-evident fact as a personal insult !
What is this "self-evident fact" of which you speak?

An assumption that instantly sabotages productive discussion.
What assumption?

How much proof does it take, to get people to accept that there is something suspicious about interpersonal stupidity passing for normal in a “civilisation” that has been building supersonic aircraft for decades ?
Any actual evidence would be nice.

We know in great detail the fallabilities and foibles of the human brain. It is not a particularly reliable device. It is the supersonic aircraft that are the exception, not the interpersonal stupidity.

In a forum section titled “Philosophy and Religion”, no less !
Yes. Yes, that is the title of this section of the forum.

One nice fellow did, however, remark admiringly on its boldness for a first post, as if he too understood the forum to be nothing more than a nihilists’ shooting gallery.
You do like to ascribe your own interpretations to what others write, don't you?

Having not found anyone capable of discussing a new idea, no further effort will be wasted on those who have invested their consciousness in things so futile as belligerent cynicism and boundless self-importance.
Bye bye.

[Darth Rotor]

There were even people who could not work out the nationality of the famous country invaded 500 years ago by genocidal Christians !
Keep living the lie, the post hoc revisionism.

The original intent of conquest, the Imperial expansion (Spain was the first, and the largest in your "five hundred years ago paradigm) was that the indigenous population not be killed, nay, but rather converted (shown the wonderfulness that is Christianity) and put to work (indentured or enslaved) for the betterment of the new and conquering Imperial arrivals. Even the Spaniards understood that the wealth of the new lands had to be extracted by labor, and using local labor would be a practical expedient.

It didn't work out so well. The diseases that came with the newcomers screwed the plans badly, as did the indigenous peoples' non-adaptation to slave labor: they simply didn't adapt to it well, for many reasons above and beyond disease.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

Informal Survey Reveals Standard of Thinking and Character

Having been somewhat confounded by the chaotic flurry of posts in various subjects, it seemed interesting to make a first post on a subject in which I have sufficient expertise to mount cogent arguments, and to load it with nuances that can run unskilled thinkers off into the weeds.
Are the results of this survey posted and tabulated?

What were the questions in the survey that elicited the response you got?

Did you perhaps build a bad survey? It happens.
Having not found anyone capable of discussing a new idea, no further effort will be wasted on those who have invested their consciousness in things so futile as belligerent cynicism and boundless self-importance.
*strums lute*

Bravely bold Sir Robin, rode forth from Camelot ...

DR

[Beerina]

And I am actually looking for people who can really think, as distinct from parroting what they have picked up elsewhere (to spell that out, dumb people have no concept of what a tedious imposition they are).

Right here, baby. I have generated a number of unique opinions and observations over the years.


Since those who responded to “Assumists miss the Big Picture” missed the central hypothesis, it shall here be explicitly re-stated

Thank you. I like discussions stripped of fuzziness and weasel-words and cryptographic meanings.


That the grotesque disparity between mankind’s technical intelligence and crippling philosophies requires careful examination in search of an explanation.

Certainly. In it's purest form, insofar as your mental models of reality deviate from actual reality, you are in jeopardy of harming yourself or others since they could lead to actual, physical acts, or behaviors, that have a real consequence that, thanks to reality not actually being like you think, will be harmful rather than beneficial.

At best, your behaviors are helpful, purely coincidentally. At worst, you are the taxi driver on "the road to Hell paved with good intentions".



Instead of picking up on that important theme and developing it, the responses give the appearance of a carnival shooting gallery, in which drunken revellers aim to ridicule or dispute absolutely everything.
There were even people who could not work out the nationality of the famous country invaded 500 years ago by genocidal Christians !

You will find no love around here for Christianity, much less it's murderous past during which it held much sway, if not outright legal power.


Ye Gods and Little Fishes !
And this is in a moderated forum run under the auspices of an organisation that proclaims itself to be an Educational Foundation in the subject of skills in thinking.
How can anyone fail to understand that a realistic Big Picture is entirely unreachable for those who incorporate stupid assumptions in their thinking ?
Yet there were posts from individuals who took this self-evident fact as a personal insult !
An assumption that instantly sabotages productive discussion.
How much proof does it take, to get people to accept that there is something suspicious about interpersonal stupidity passing for normal in a “civilisation” that has been building supersonic aircraft for decades ?
In a forum section titled “Philosophy and Religion”, no less !
One nice fellow did, however, remark admiringly on its boldness for a first post, as if he too understood the forum to be nothing more than a nihilists’ shooting gallery.
Having not found anyone capable of discussing a new idea, no further effort will be wasted on those who have invested their consciousness in things so futile as belligerent cynicism and boundless self-importance.


Well, I have discussed your point about the discrepancy between technical knowledge and lagging, anachronistic beliefs, principally religious, though not limited to same.

The explanation is simple, and meme theory covers it with great parsimony and predictive value. B. F. Skinner was on the right track -- ignore the hot air coming from people's mouths and focus on their behaviors.

[bokonon]

Having not found anyone capable of discussing a new idea, no further effort will be wasted on those who have invested their consciousness in things so futile as belligerent cynicism and boundless self-importance.
Yeah, cool.

I chose not to take part in your original thread, and this demonstration of "boundless self-importance" as you flounce out of the forum suggests that was a prudent choice.

I think contemporary America can learn something about stewardship of the land and communal societies from Native American culture. I have no interest in learning how to defend myself against imaginary "soul eaters."

Ta ta.

[Agatha]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/rosysparkle/scarletflounceaward.jpg

Bye, Laughing Bear.

[Puppycow]

Buh-bye! :)