The Organization of 911 Truth

[Scott Sommers]

I know it is the JREF rhetoric that 911 Truth is poorly organized and badly lead. I don't believe this. Considering that it's basically a small group of kids lead by a bunch of unemployed scientists making claims that are so ridiculous it's laughable, they have achieved an amazing presence.

Much of the time at JREF is spent dealing with claims originating from a collection of unemployed scientists who have been highly successful at standardizing the claims of Truthers for public consumption. While no-planers make up a sizable minority of 911 Truthers, it's become very hard to find their stuff. unless you know what you're looking for. It's become buried in claims of thermite and BBC conspiracies.

I don't surf the Truther sites, so it's not clear to me who is who in all this. I am a member of We Are Change, though. WAC while largely inactive is able to generate remarkably loyalty and every September 11 able to summon members from thousands of miles away for what amounts to a creaming party for the deranged. The members of WAC that I know have jobs. They work and are married to people who are not necessarily so involved in over throwing the US government. Some of the members of WAC describe themselves as "full-time activists" - although they all seem to have other jobs.

So what's the connection between WAC and the crazies who post on the net? Are they the same people? At least 3 members of WAC are programmers of some sort and could be behind the outstanding quality videos we see all over teh Internet. How are WAC connected to Dickie G. and Steven J.? Are there other groups that are more effective at mobolizing resources and money that I have missed?

[Thunder]

I am a member of We Are Change, though.

I am very sorry to hear that. You have my sympathy.

[Scott Sommers]

They are very informative and friendly people. Considering they believe the government murders people and can walk free after doing so, they are very inviting and easy to meet. If you would like, I can introduce you to some of its members.

[Thunder]

They are very informative and friendly people. Considering they believe the government murders people and can walk free after doing so, they are very inviting and easy to meet. If you would like, I can introduce you to some of its members.

lolololol!!!

:p

you are a funny guy. kudos to you and your sense of humor.

[T.A.M.]

I know it is the JREF rhetoric that 911 Truth is poorly organized and badly lead. I don't believe this. Considering that it's basically a small group of kids lead by a bunch of unemployed scientists making claims that are so ridiculous it's laughable, they have achieved an amazing presence.

Much of the time at JREF is spent dealing with claims originating from a collection of unemployed scientists who have been highly successful at standardizing the claims of Truthers for public consumption. While no-planers make up a sizable minority of 911 Truthers, it's become very hard to find their stuff. unless you know what you're looking for. It's become buried in claims of thermite and BBC conspiracies.

I don't surf the Truther sites, so it's not clear to me who is who in all this. I am a member of We Are Change, though. WAC while largely inactive is able to generate remarkably loyalty and every September 11 able to summon members from thousands of miles away for what amounts to a creaming party for the deranged. The members of WAC that I know have jobs. They work and are married to people who are not necessarily so involved in over throwing the US government. Some of the members of WAC describe themselves as "full-time activists" - although they all seem to have other jobs.

So what's the connection between WAC and the crazies who post on the net? Are they the same people? At least 3 members of WAC are programmers of some sort and could be behind the outstanding quality videos we see all over teh Internet. How are WAC connected to Dickie G. and Steven J.? Are there other groups that are more effective at mobolizing resources and money that I have missed?

I am not so sure. Yell "fire!" in a building where the president is visiting, and you will instantly have a "presence". There was a time when the 9/11 TM did have a "presence"...it was 2006. They 5th Anniversary of 9/11 was their big moment. They had main stream interviews, books were out there, Loose Change was an internet phenomenon.

And then, in all of that glory...all of the huge build up...they managed to get about 1000 people out to GZ for 9/11 2006. 1000. In a city of over 10 million, in a country of 300 million, they got 1000. I think that, along with the flop of the subsequent LC films, and then the coup de gras, with Obama winning in 2008, brought them to what they are today...not much.

Now they cannot manage more than a few handfuls at events. Their internet traffic has tanked. The videos, few that they are, that now come out do absolutely nothing.

They may, at one time, have had an opportunity to be something significant...but not now...not by a long shot.

TAM:)

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

How about: "The DIS-Organization of 911 Truth"?

[Thunder]

i am a debunker, i am a Jew, i am a liberal, a democrat, a government employee, i carry a badge, i have friends who are former DOD and CIA, and i have a relative in the NYPD intelligence division.

yeah..me meet folks from WAC. thats a great idea.

[Sam.I.Am]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The truth movement started dying the minute that the Democrats won the congress back. Most of them were only using the truth movement for political ends and when they reached that goal they backed off so as to not embarrass "Their" guys with their lies and stupid theories that they knew weren't true from the get go.

[UNLoVedRebel]

If people meet up to discuss killing themselves so they could catch a ride on a UFO trailing a comet, then why is it so hard to believe people could meet up to discuss George Bush passing off a controlled demolition as a a fire-induced progressive collapse? Both are stupid, the latter slightly stupider. I tend to avoid people with such interests. But hey, to each his own.

[Scott Sommers]

I am not so sure. Yell "fire!" in a building where the president is visiting, and you will instantly have a "presence". There was a time when the 9/11 TM did have a "presence"...it was 2006. They 5th Anniversary of 9/11 was their big moment. They had main stream interviews, books were out there, Loose Change was an internet phenomenon.

And then, in all of that glory...all of the huge build up...they managed to get about 1000 people out to GZ for 9/11 2006. 1000. In a city of over 10 million, in a country of 300 million, they got 1000. I think that, along with the flop of the subsequent LC films, and then the coup de gras, with Obama winning in 2008, brought them to what they are today...not much.

Now they cannot manage more than a few handfuls at events. Their internet traffic has tanked. The videos, few that they are, that now come out do absolutely nothing.

They may, at one time, have had an opportunity to be something significant...but not now...not by a long shot.

TAM:)

I'm trying to get at something different from this. There is a Truth Movement. I talk with its members all the time. They continue to say they believe the government murders people. As they get older, fewer and fewer of them are willing to do anything about this, even join a Facebook group. But if you ask them, they will tell you they believe the government murders people.

More significantly, they say they believe that citizens have the right to make up stories about how the government murders people and spread these stories on the Internet. There are many people who genuinely believe this and they are willing to do more than join a Facebook group to promote this idea.

So there's a Truth Movement. It's not the thousand people who came out to 911 in 2006, but it is the people from that rally who are left. They're all left probably because they have some other network that 911 Truth serves. Jan Johnson runs for the Constitutional Party. There is some strong relationship between Ron Paul and 911 conspiracy. Dickie G. is running from his ex-wife or something like that.

This is why I describe 911 Truth as gangs of teenagers raising money for adult leaders of organized crime groups. It's no longer a political organization. But their still are connections between the people involved. How did 1000 people get organized to come out in 2006? Presumably there was some connections that spread information about their ideas and the demonstration. There are channels that raise money and spend it.

[Thunder]

9-11 Truth is a ponzi scheme.

[Orphia Nay]

I know it is the JREF rhetoric that 911 Truth is poorly organized and badly lead. I don't believe this. Considering that it's basically a small group of kids lead by a bunch of unemployed scientists making claims that are so ridiculous it's laughable, they have achieved an amazing presence.

Much of the time at JREF is spent dealing with claims originating from a collection of unemployed scientists who have been highly successful at standardizing the claims of Truthers for public consumption. While no-planers make up a sizable minority of 911 Truthers, it's become very hard to find their stuff. unless you know what you're looking for. It's become buried in claims of thermite and BBC conspiracies.

Except for the ubiquitous "no plane at the Pentagon" beliefs of basically every truther.

I don't surf the Truther sites, so it's not clear to me who is who in all this. I am a member of We Are Change, though. WAC while largely inactive is able to generate remarkably loyalty and every September 11 able to summon members from thousands of miles away for what amounts to a creaming party for the deranged. The members of WAC that I know have jobs. They work and are married to people who are not necessarily so involved in over throwing the US government. Some of the members of WAC describe themselves as "full-time activists" - although they all seem to have other jobs.

So what's the connection between WAC and the crazies who post on the net? Are they the same people? At least 3 members of WAC are programmers of some sort and could be behind the outstanding quality videos we see all over teh Internet. How are WAC connected to Dickie G. and Steven J.? Are there other groups that are more effective at mobolizing resources and money that I have missed?

WAC seem to be anti-government, pro-conspiracy theories in general, not just 9/11, judging from my visits to their site. They don't seem to have much money, and what they have is raised by the few proactive members.

There are few proactive truthers (I'm not counting those posting on Youtube, etc) who will attend protests and donate money to 9/11 causes. Some of those truthers are probably members of WAC.

Don't worry, you haven't missed any group that is effective at mobilising resources and money. We've seen it so many times. The only thing truthers can agree on is "the government did it". The rest of the time they're arguing amongst themselves over the details. They're all wrong, and have wrong beliefs, and can point out others' wrong beliefs and won't contribute to their causes, and only think they themselves know the Truth. We don't call them "splitters" for nothing. To paraphrase a famous quote, they're an impotent movement, full of fury, signifying nothing.

[Thunder]

im a big fan of their fundraising schemes. especially when they try to raise a million dollars in 6 months..and don't even reach 1% by 6 months.

funny stuff.

[Orphia Nay]

How did 1000 people get organized to come out in 2006? Presumably there was some connections that spread information about their ideas and the demonstration. There are channels that raise money and spend it.

From memory, I think most of them were there on the Alex Jones bandwagon. Since then, I'm sure most of them have realised how batcrap crazy Alex Jones is, and have disassociated themselves from him.

[Scott Sommers]

9-11 Truth is a ponzi scheme.

Of course, and that's always been my point. Some might protect it as freedom of speech, but if we were talking about a product, it would be clear this is a crime gang.

Except for the ubiquitous "no plane at the Pentagon" beliefs of basically every truther.

Sure. Despite what they say, all the Truthers who are left ulitmately become no planers, even at the WTC.



WAC seem to be anti-government, pro-conspiracy theories in general, not just 9/11, judging from my visits to their site. They don't seem to have much money, and what they have is raised by the few proactive members. There are few proactive truthers (I'm not counting those posting on Youtube, etc) who will attend protests and donate money to 9/11 causes. Some of those truthers are probably members of WAC.


It's exactly this point that I'm interested in. If there was no money at all in 911, my guess is that Dickie G. and all the other grown ups would disappear. While it's correct to say that WAC is an anti-government group, it's birth was in 911 Truth and they are adopting more and more 'anti-government as their position as 911 Truth is marginalized. The same could be said for 911 Truth groups in Canada. Luke Rudkowski is a major leadership figure in WAC. His major 'position' has always been 911 Truth. More recently, he is alligning himself with anti-USA media, like Russia Today.

What I want to know is the connection between all these folks. The implication so far has been that there is no communication between them and they're just a bunch of borderline crazies out talking. This can't be true. There's too much money involved in flying Dickie G. Our current JREF friend Tony Szamboti seems too involved in all this for his real age to not be moving in for something else.

It has been implied earlier that this money comes from old hippies. OK. If that's true, how is getting collected and distributed to its sources? How does money get from one place to another? How does it get from the people who work to the people who don't?

[Orphia Nay]

http://www.ae911truth.org/
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w194/orphia/aeNov2309.jpg


http://www.911truth.org/
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w194/orphia/911truthNov2309.jpg

It's hardly big bikkies, is it? :)

[George152]

I like the bit where he talks about getting published in New Zealand..
Quoted:

We then had a very positive newspaper interview with the widely read New Zealand Capital Times with journalist Sophie Schroder. Sophie had seen the DVD at the invitation of local 9/11 truth activist Helen Waddington. We will post the article as soon it comes out....

The New Zealand Capital Times is a Wednesday freebie for one suburb in Wellington and is a 'What's on in town publication'