Essay on Fate

[NullPointerException]

Free will doesn't exist when you believe in an ultimate being. If you don't believe in an ultimate being you have free will. Any questions?

[Suezoled]

*raises hand* teacher can I go to the potty? :D :p

[Suezoled]

I'm sorry NP... that was just too open to resist...

[Yahweh]

How about an ultimate being who knows the future...

If he knows the future, then those future events will affect him. Backwards causation is achieved...

Free will doesn't exist when you believe in an ultimate being
If the ultimate being knows the future, does the ultimate being have free will...

[Suezoled]

Isnt' it free will to believe in this ultimate being?

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Suezoled
Isnt' it free will to believe in this ultimate being?
If you believe in a being which knows the future and created everything (which would be the case for an Ultimate Being), then its very hard to believe you have free will...

From This thread (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32526&highlight=open+theism):
Originally posted by Graham

Except that, if God knows the future, the future is determined going forward and has been determined from the very start.

Thus, by creating the universe the way it is, exactly the way he did, God has in fact done something to direct or influence the course of action of all future events.

[Suezoled]

I'm not assuming an ultimate being that predetermined everything. I'm talking about an ultimate being along for the ride who can make you dance like the puppet you would be if you believed in him.


edited for spelling

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Suezoled
I'm not assuming an ultimate being that predetermined everything. I'm talking about an ultimate being along for the ride you can make you dance like the puppet you would be if you believed in him.
Its all an illusion...

Free will is an elaborate illusion...

Look! A blimp!

*Runs off*

[Suezoled]

...and if you choose to follow this god and give up free will, is this not also free will?

{smacks Yahweh with blimp} :D

[c4ts]

What about enough free will to do anything but avoid your fate?

[NullPointerException]

If god knows the future than he knows his own future and thus has no free will. Also, I cannot answer to whether or not you can go to the bathroom without more information.

[sorgoth]

Originally posted by NullPointerException
Free will doesn't exist when you believe in an ultimate being. If you don't believe in an ultimate being you have free will. Any questions?


If I don't believe in an ultimate being, but believe that everything is either mathematically determined (Action/reaction) or random (Some quantum effects), then there isn't any more free will than we would have with divine preordination.


Or am I missing something?

[NullPointerException]

Your analysis of the situation is not balanced, thus you are missing something. I know when presented with a situation what my response will be, you should as well.