Isn't the United States Motto fairly Socialist?

[Undesired Walrus]

It seems to me that 'Out of many, one' advocates the concept of a vast amount of individuals coming together into one.

[Calculon]

It seems to me that 'Out of many, one' advocates the concept of a vast amount of individuals coming together into one.

I think of it as inclusive...unlike the one we have now, "In God we Trust".

[gtc]

a vast amount of individuals coming together into one.

Pervert.

Seriously, my first thought would be that it refers to the American states uniting into one nation, a United States of America, if you will.

[Undesired Walrus]

It's one of the best mottos I can think of. I loath the British one we are we are stuck with ('My God and my right').

[theprestige]

It seems to me that 'Out of many, one' advocates the concept of a vast amount of individuals coming together into one.
It probably makes more sense in the context of actual US history--you know, the part about thirteen independent colonies joining forces to better withstand domination by foreign powers. Out of many states, one nation. But yeah, if you want to think the founding fathers were crypto-socialists (or accidental socialists), go right ahead.

[the_eye]

Australia doesn't even have a motto, it used to be Advance Australia.

[Wildy]

It's one of the best mottos I can think of. I loath the British one we are we are stuck with ('My God and my right').

At least you get a motto. We Aussies don't have one.

[quadraginta]

It's one of the best mottos I can think of. I loath the British one we are we are stuck with ('My God and my right').


I wish it were our motto, too. Unfortunately it's not, and never has been officially.

As mentioned above, our first and only "official" motto is that "In God We Trust" bull hockey. Enacted into law during one of the more regrettable, vicious episodes of pseudo-moralistic opportunism in our recent history it now represents a permanent reminder that we are never more than a handful of radio and TV diatribes away from an hysteria driven, ignorance fueled, populist-mongered theocracy.

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

At least you get a motto. We Aussies don't have one.

Wait wait... so it's not "I come from the land down under, where women glow and men plunder" ???

I'm shocked, I tell you.

[Upchurch]

Wait wait... so it's not "I come from the land down under, where women glow and men plunder" ???

I'm shocked, I tell you.
...and so it begins

I thought it was "that's not a knife. THIS is a knife."


eta: On the OP, it's totally one country from many states and diverse people into a single nationality. It is no more socialist than any country not currently in civil war.

[casebro]

I thought Australia's motto starts with :

Here we have the Wattle,
the emblem of out land.

You can stick it in a bottle,
or hold it in your hand.....

Oh, sorry, that's the state poem. ;)

ETA: is there more? I've never found any.

[Thunder]

It seems to me that 'Out of many, one' advocates the concept of a vast amount of individuals coming together into one.

yes. Obama went back in time and made our national motto 200 years ago.

[Undesired Walrus]

But yeah, if you want to think the founding fathers were crypto-socialists (or accidental socialists), go right ahead.

Who thought this?

[Meadmaker]

It seems to me that 'Out of many, one' advocates the concept of a vast amount of individuals coming together into one.


I'm not sure whether this has already been made clear, but in case it hasn't, I'll try.

The "many" in "E pluribus unum" does not refer to individuals. It refers to states. From 13 independent, non-connected, states, a single new nation was formed.

[Distracted1]

I'm not sure whether this has already been made clear, but in case it hasn't, I'll try.

The "many" in "E pluribus unum" does not refer to individuals. It refers to states. From 13 independent, non-connected, states, a single new nation was formed.
You are certain of this? You state it as if it is a fact and not just an opinion, why?

Is'nt it just as possible that it means "From many individuals- a single people"

[Undesired Walrus]

I'm not sure whether this has already been made clear, but in case it hasn't, I'll try.

The "many" in "E pluribus unum" does not refer to individuals. It refers to states. From 13 independent, non-connected, states, a single new nation was formed.

When the phrase was originally written or when it was picked to be the motto?

[The Painter]

At least you get a motto. We Aussies don't have one.

I always thought your unofficial official song was "Waltzing Matilda". Yet I don't know what language it is?

Down came a jumbuck to drink at that billabong,
Up jumped the swagman and grabbed him with glee,
And he sang as he shoved that jumbuck in his tucker bag,
"You'll come a-Waltzing Matilda, with me".

What???

[I Ratant]

That's Strine.
Cobbers speak it.

[Achán hiNidráne]

I thought that Australia's motto was "NO POOFTAHS!"

[uk_dave]

I thought that Australia's motto was "NO POOFTAHS!"

Yes, but like many homophobes, Australia was later found to be gay (much to New Zealand's surprise).

[Undesired Walrus]

I'm touched at how similar national mottos are to the theme of others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_mottos

Algeria:
بالشعب و للشعب By the people and for the people (They steal this from Lincoln or vice versa?)

Bulgaria:
Union Makes Strength

Chad:
Unity, Work, Progress

Equatorial Guinea:
Unity, Peace, Justice

Georgia:
Strength is in Unity

Guyana:
One People, One Nation, One Destiny

Etc.

By far my favourite is the Czech motto: Truth prevails!

[Undesired Walrus]

I like this piece of Wiki vandalism:

Jamaica:
Out of many, one babe having sex

How long has that been there?

[theprestige]

You are certain of this? You state it as if it is a fact and not just an opinion, why?

Is'nt it just as possible that it means "From many individuals- a single people"
Dude, it's the history of the United States. It was formed by the union of thirteen states into one nation. It appears on the original great seal of the nation, in 1776 (the year the nation was founded), alongside a constellation of thirteen stars and a bundle of thirteen arrows, canonical symbols of the original thirteen states.

[Eyeron]

According to the wiki:

E pluribus unum, Latin for "Out of many one", is a motto requested by Pierre Eugene du Simitiere (originally Pierre-Eugène Ducimetière) and found in 1776 on the Seal of the United States, along with Annuit cœptis and Novus ordo seclorum, and adopted by an Act of Congress in 1782. The phrase originally came from Moretum, a poem attributed to Virgil but with the actual author unknown. In the poem text, color est e pluribus unus describes the blending of colors into one. A different account was put forward in the Discovery Channel program "Secret America". According to an interview with Priscilla Linn, Senior Curator, State Dept. Diplomacy, the phrase "Out of Many, One" came from a magazine called "The Gentleman's Magazine," published at the time of the revolution. Each year, the magazine would re-purpose one article from each of the year's 12 issues, publishing a standalone issue that was "Out of many, one".

Never codified by law, E pluribus unum was considered a de facto motto of the United States until 1956 when the United States Congress passed an act (H.J. Resolution 396), adopting In God We Trust as the official motto.[1] Seth Read of Uxbridge, Massachusetts was said to have been "instrumental" in the addition of "E Pluribus Unum" to U.S. Coins.[2] The first coins with this mint appeared as early as 1786 at Newburgh, New York.

While Annuit cœptis and Novus ordo seclorum appear on the reverse side of the great seal, E pluribus unum appears on the obverse side of the seal, the image of which is used as the national emblem of the United States, and appears on official documents such as passports. It also appears on the seal of the President and in the seals of the Vice President of the United States, of the United States Congress, of the United States House of Representatives, of the United States Senate and on the seal of the United States Supreme Court. E pluribus unum, written in capital letters, is included on most U.S. currency, with some exceptions to the letter spacing (such as the reverse of the dime). It is also embossed on the edge of the dollar coin. (See United States coinage and paper bills in circulation).

Originally suggesting that out of many colonies or states emerge a single nation, it has come to suggest that out of many peoples, races, religions and ancestries has emerged a single people and nation – illustrating the concept of the melting pot.[3]

Its Anglicized pronunciation is /ˈiː ˈplʊərɨbəs ˈjuːnəm/; Latin [ˈeː ˈpluːribus ˈuːnum].

[JoeTheJuggler]

It seems to me that 'Out of many, one' advocates the concept of a vast amount of individuals coming together into one.

I don't see how that means "socialism".

On the other hand, Missouri's motto definitely supports what most people claim is "socialism":

"Salus populi suprema lex esto "--"The welfare of the people shall be the supreme law."

And, of course, we've got the best nickname too--The Show Me State.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Dude, it's the history of the United States. It was formed by the union of thirteen states into one nation.

That's the way I always took it.

Even if you generalize, at most it says we're a pluralistic society. (That is our nation is not formed of an ethnic or religious identity.)

[Undesired Walrus]

(That is our nation is not formed of an ethnic or religious identity.)

Is that unusual?

[Thunder]

eh....wasn't Socialism invented in the late 1800s???

[Undesired Walrus]

So?

[Praktik]

eh....wasn't Socialism invented in the late 1800s???

as we know it maybe, but it was percolating for a long time before then. You can point to periods in history when there were groups advocating for things we would call socialism today, but wasn't back then.

Socialism "hit the big time" in the 19th century. But it was the product of centuries of political development.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

It seems to me that 'Out of many, one' advocates the concept of a vast amount of individuals coming together into one.

It could also be describing a football team.

It's socialist if you want to see socialism in it.

[KingMerv00]

What???

I'll translate:

Down came a sheep to drink at that small lake,
Up jumped the homeless squatter and grabbed him with glee,
And he sang as he shoved that sheep in his pouch,
"You'll come a-wandering with me and my few meager possessions which I have packed in a makeshift bundle."

[Praktik]

i nearly lost my coffee on your cicero quote/sig..;)

[KingMerv00]

i nearly lost my coffee on your cicero quote/sig..;)

It was the "book sales" part wasn't it?

[Thunder]

So?

how could the motto of the USA be Socialist, if it pre-dates Socialism by more than 100 years?

[Undesired Walrus]

how could the motto of the USA be Socialist, if it pre-dates Socialism by more than 100 years?

Humans were Human before the word was invented. From our perspective at least.

Based on the evidence given in this thread however, I have to admit that it seems as if the motto was talking about states, rather than individuals. Thanks for the education.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Is that unusual?

Yes, I do believe it was at the time.

However, unusual or not, I think the motto refers literally to the union of the original colonies and more generally or figuratively to the pluralistic society united as a nation.

[peptoabysmal]

I think it's funnier when people try to link the US to the Illuminati via perverting "novus ordo seclorum" into a version of "new world order."
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Illuminati/symbols_of_the_illuminati.htm

[SimonD]

eh....wasn't Socialism invented in the late 1800s???

While the phrase 'Socialism' may have been coined in the 1800's, the concept has been around for many thousands of years.

Tribal life was basically socialism. Another example would be some of the teachings of Jesus Christ (without getting into the debate about whether he existed or not).

[Bob Blaylock]

On the other hand, Missouri's motto definitely supports what most people claim is "socialism":

"Salus populi suprema lex esto "--"The welfare of the people shall be the supreme law."


How long has that been Missouri's motto?

I don't think the term “welfare” was ever used in the U.S. to refer to government-based socialistic wealth-redistribution programs until well into the 20th century.

[Redtail]

How long has that been Missouri's motto?

Since 1822.

I don't think the term “welfare” was ever used in the U.S. to refer to government-based socialistic wealth-redistribution programs until well into the 20th century.

Ok... and?

[Damien Evans]

At least you get a motto. We Aussies don't have one.

That explains why I don't know it at least.

[gtc]

Aussie, Aussie, Aussie! Oi! Oi! Oi!

[brodski]

eh....wasn't Socialism invented in the late 1800s???

Nope, "When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?" 1381.

[quadraginta]

At least you get a motto. We Aussies don't have one.

That explains why I don't know it at least.

Aussie, Aussie, Aussie! Oi! Oi! Oi!


Shouldn't it have something about Oz in it? ... and a 'roo?

Or at least a wallaby?

Maybe we could all pitch in and come up with something appropriate.

Something ... tasteful.

[JoeTheJuggler]

How long has that been Missouri's motto?

I don't think the term “welfare” was ever used in the U.S. to refer to government-based socialistic wealth-redistribution programs until well into the 20th century.

I don't think what you're describing is a new and different meaning to the term "welfare". I think the MO motto means that the good of the people come first. (Actually another valid translation of "salus" is "health" or "well-being".)

That one could cast government programs dedicated to protecting the welfare of the people (like safety net programs for the poor, food stamps and Social Security) can be re-cast as "wealth-redistribution" doesn't change the meaning of the word welfare.

I don't buy that the term originally referred to something different than the target of modern welfare programs. It's still the "salus populi"--and it comes ahead of, for example, the interests of the government or of entities that really aren't people like corporations.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I'm not sure whether this has already been made clear, but in case it hasn't, I'll try.

The "many" in "E pluribus unum" does not refer to individuals. It refers to states. From 13 independent, non-connected, states, a single new nation was formed.

You are certain of this? You state it as if it is a fact and not just an opinion, why?

Is'nt it just as possible that it means "From many individuals- a single people"
I would say it definitely has both of these meanings.


eh....wasn't Socialism invented in the late 1800s???
You mean as a named party, right? While I agree the U.S. motto wasn't referring to anything like socialism, the fact there wasn't a party or a movement with that name until the late 1800s is pretty irrelevant. The concept of "contribute to your ability and take to your need" goes waaay back.

The earliest Christian church followed this principle:

32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

And Communism wouldn't be invented for some 1800 years!

[JoeTheJuggler]

Shouldn't it have something about Oz in it? ... and a 'roo?

I would suggest:

"What more do you want to know?'

"The names of all the stars, and of all living things, and the whole history of Middle-earth and Over-heaven and of the Sundering Seas."

It's a bit long, and it's not in Latin, but it's not bad.

[theprestige]

I would say it definitely has both of these meanings.



You mean as a named party, right? While I agree the U.S. motto wasn't referring to anything like socialism, the fact there wasn't a party or a movement with that name until the late 1800s is pretty irrelevant. The concept of "contribute to your ability and take to your need" goes waaay back.

The earliest Christian church followed this principle:



And Communism wouldn't be invented for some 1800 years!
Christianity: Opt-in communism, without the gulags.

[Darth Rotor]

eh....wasn't Socialism invented in the late 1800s???

No, it was invented in about 35 AD.

ACTS: 4
4:31 When they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were gathered together. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness. 4:32 The multitude of those who believed were of one heart and soul. Not one of them claimed that anything of the things which he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 4:33 With great power, the apostles gave their testimony of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. Great grace was on them all. 4:34 For neither was there among them any who lacked, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 4:35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet, and distribution was made to each, according as anyone had need. 4:36 Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas (which is, being interpreted, Son of Encouragement), a Levite, a man of Cyprus by race, 4:37 having a field, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
(Actually, this passage informs part of the ideology of Distributism, but I thought I 'd make with a joke ... )

[JoeTheJuggler]

Christianity: Opt-in communism, without the gulags.
At least as Christianity existed in the very early days.

Not so much with the Protestant work ethic and Calvinism and the Religious Right.

[theprestige]

At least as Christianity existed in the very early days.

Not so much with the Protestant work ethic and Calvinism and the Religious Right.
Tell me about it. I'm expecting the Morality Police at my door Real Soon Now, to disappear me away to a hell-on-earth death camp for sinners.

[Darth Rotor]

Tell me about it. I'm expecting the Morality Police at my door Real Soon Now, to disappear me away to a hell-on-earth death camp for sinners.

Just come over to my house for a beer, and we can await the nanny state anti-drinking crowd with guns a blazing.

"First they came for Kalhua drinkers, but I didn't care, since I didn't like White Russians.

Then they came for the martini tutti fruiti drinkers, but I said nothing, as I hated to see alcohol abused so

Then they came for the wine drinkers, and I said nothing, since I had my Everclear.

Then they came for me, and I shot them, but sadly, I missed, having drunk all of my Everclear and beer in the interim.

Luckily, my next door neighbor was a Baptist, who heard my gunplay and came out of his house, guns a blazing, dressed in a French Maid outfit. I didn't notice the last bit until the smoke cleared. Good guns make good neighbors, and I'm fashion impaired anyway.

[Meadmaker]

Just come over to my house for a beer, and we can await the nanny state anti-drinking crowd with guns a blazing.

"First they came for Kalhua drinkers, but I didn't care, since I didn't like White Russians.

Then they came for the martini tutti fruiti drinkers, but I said nothing, as I hated to see alcohol abused so

Then they came for the wine drinkers, and I said nothing, since I had my Everclear.

Then they came for me, and I shot them, but sadly, I missed, having drunk all of my Everclear and beer in the interim.

Luckily, my next door neighbor was a Baptist, who heard my gunplay and came out of his house, guns a blazing, dressed in a French Maid outfit. I didn't notice the last bit until the smoke cleared. Good guns make good neighbors, and I'm fashion impaired anyway.
:)