9/11 Bush assassination plan

[Oliver]

I'm reading an article at HistoryCommons [yeah, Paul Thompson] about Bush's "interesting day" on 9/11 right now and one of the articles claims is that there might have been an attempt to assassinate former President Bush. Did anyone in here learn more about that interesting part of 9/11?

http://www.historycommons.org/essay.jsp?article=essayaninterestingday

... At about the same time Bush was getting ready for his jog, a van carrying several Middle Eastern men pulled up to the Colony’s guard station. The men said they were a television news crew with a scheduled “poolside” interview with the president. They asked for a certain Secret Service agent by name. The message was relayed to a Secret Service agent inside the resort, who hadn’t heard of the agent mentioned or of plans for an interview. He told the men to contact the president’s public relations office in Washington, DC, and had the van turned away. [Longboat Observer, 9/26/01 (http://www.historycommons.org/%E2%80%9Chttp://www.longboatobserver.com/showarticle.asp?ai=1874%E2%80%9D)] *snip*

Two days earlier, Ahmed Shah Massoud, leader of Afghanistan’s Northern Alliance, had been murdered by a similar ruse. *snip*

Nearly three hours after the incident at the Colony, another Longboat Key resident reported a run-in with possibly the same men. At about 8:50 (when reports of the first World Trade Center crash were first broadcast), while standing on the Sarasota bay front waiting for the presidential motorcade to pass by, this man saw two Middle Eastern men in a dilapidated van “screaming out the windows ‘Down with Bush’ and raising their fists in the air.” The FBI questioned the man, but it’s not known if this was the same van that had visited the Colony. [Longboat Observer, 9/26/01 (http://www.historycommons.org/%E2%80%9Chttp://www.longboatobserver.com/showarticle.asp?ai=1874%E2%80%9D)] *snip*

[carlitos]

The "Longboat Observer" links don't work, and the only google results (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=The+men+said+they+were+a+television+news+crew+wi th+a+scheduled+“poolside”+interview+with+the+presi dent.+They+asked+for+a+certain+Secret+Service+agen t+by+name&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) for parts of that text seem to be SPAM comments or truther sites. Color me skeptical.

[Oliver]

The "Longboat Observer" links don't work, and the only google results (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=The+men+said+they+were+a+television+news+crew+wi th+a+scheduled+%E2%80%9Cpoolside%E2%80%9D+intervie w+with+the+president.+They+asked+for+a+certain+Sec ret+Service+agent+by+name&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) for parts of that text seem to be SPAM comments or truther sites. Color me skeptical.


Color me skeptical as well. However, the page still exists at the "Internet Archive":

http://web.archive.org/web/20070223103459/http://www.longboatobserver.com/showarticle.asp?ai=1874

[BigAl]

I'm reading an article at HistoryCommons [yeah, Paul Thompson] about Bush's "interesting day" on 9/11 right now and one of the articles claims is that there might have been an attempt to assassinate former President Bush. Did anyone in here learn more about that interesting part of 9/11?

I'm skeptical, too but maybe 24 hours earlier a "news crew" in Afghanistan assassinated Masoud who was the most effective anti-taliban anti-AQ leader in the country. The news crew was sent by bin Laden. It was an elaborate plot because Masoud was no slouch as far as personal security goes.

The method was a bomb-loaded video camera. It was a suicide attack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Masoud

[carlitos]

Thanks for the link. I'm thinking about this.

[Oliver]

I'm skeptical, too but maybe 24 hours earlier a "news crew" in Afghanistan assassinated Masoud who was the most effective anti-taliban anti-AQ leader in the country. The news crew was sent by bin Laden. It was an elaborate plot because Masoud was no slouch as far as personal security goes.

The method was a bomb-loaded video camera. It was a suicide attack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Masoud


We know for fact that Ahmad Shah Massoud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud) was assassinated almost a day earlier, so there might have been a plan to assassinate Bush as well - especially if you prefer to see Massoud's assassination this way:

The assassination is widely believed to have been timed to remove the Taliban’s most popular and respected opponent in anticipation of the backlash that would occur after the 9/11 attacks. [BBC, 9/10/01 (http://www.historycommons.org/%E2%80%9Chttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1535249.stm%E2%80%9D), BBC, 9/10/01 (B) (http://www.historycommons.org/%E2%80%9Chttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1534629.stm%E2%80%9D), Time, 8/4/02 (http://www.historycommons.org/%E2%80%9Chttp://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020812/story.html%E2%80%9D), St. Petersburg Times, 9/9/02 (http://www.historycommons.org/%E2%80%9Chttp://www.sptimes.com/2002/09/09/911/The_man_who_would_hav.shtml%E2%80%9D)]

[MikeW]

Two days earlier, Ahmed Shah Massoud, leader of Afghanistan’s Northern Alliance, had been murdered by a similar ruse.
Not really. The people who murdered Massoud actually arranged to spend time with him. They prepared, did their homework, just as you'd expect if you were going to carry out some major attack.

This supposed attempt, though, apparently had no preparations at all. No appointment. Nothing done in advance. Even worse, they displayed their lack of preparation by referring to a Secret Service agent that wasn't known to the others. This is not at all what you'd expect from someone planning to commit what would have been the most significant assassination in years (maybe ever in the context of the coming attacks), and that's why I think there's most likely another explanation for the report.

[Oliver]

Not really. The people who murdered Massoud actually arranged to spend time with him. They prepared, did their homework, just as you'd expect if you were going to carry out some major attack.

This supposed attempt, though, apparently had no preparations at all. No appointment. Nothing done in advance. Even worse, they displayed their lack of preparation by referring to a Secret Service agent that wasn't known to the others. This is not at all what you'd expect from someone planning to commit what would have been the most significant assassination in years (maybe ever in the context of the coming attacks), and that's why I think there's most likely another explanation for the report.


Well, you're right. But that does not mean that another group of people tried the same. They wouldn't have to be connected to the group that did assassinate Massoud. It could have been a group of copycats or they did not have the same easy access to Bush. Or they were in a rush after they learned about 9/11 or the Massoud assasination.

That's why I'm asking: Who knows more details about the "Middle Eastern Men trying to interview Bush"?

[MikeW]

That's why I'm asking: Who knows more details about the "Middle Eastern Men trying to interview Bush"?
I never found anything on it with more detail than the report you brought up here. The next step would be to submit a FOIA request to the FBI, maybe for anything on the issue that references the report by Carroll Mooneyhan. This isn't a major issue but is still worth doing, just for the chance of uncovering a little more. Do you want to give it a try? (I will, if you don't.)

[Oliver]

I never found anything on it with more detail than the report you brought up here. The next step would be to submit a FOIA request to the FBI, maybe for anything on the issue that references the report by Carroll Mooneyhan. This isn't a major issue but is still worth doing, just for the chance of uncovering a little more. Do you want to give it a try? (I will, if you don't.)


Well, I would. But being a German citizen, FOIA requests are out of question for me. :(

[Undesired Walrus]

I'd put this report next to the 5th plane theory (Angry Arabs allegedly demanding that a grounded plane should take off, leaving behind extremist literature) and the car bomb in DC. It's likely a fog of war story.

[Undesired Walrus]

Well, I would. But being a German citizen, FOIA requests are out of question for me. :(

Really? MikeW's a Brit I believe and got some FOIA requests.

[Oliver]

I'd put this report next to the 5th plane theory (Angry Arabs allegedly demanding that a grounded plane should take off, leaving behind extremist literature) and the car bomb in DC. It's likely a fog of war story.


Sure, that would be the case if the Longboat Observer (http://www.historycommons.org/%E2%80%9Chttp://www.longboatobserver.com/showarticle.asp?ai=1874%E2%80%9D) is a Truther/CT outlet, which it wasn't...

[Undesired Walrus]

It doesn't have to be a truther outlet, just an article written by a reporter who heard a story from an excited and misguided FBI agent.

[Oliver]

Really? MikeW's a Brit I believe and got some FOIA requests.


So foreigners have the same access and get the same treatment concerning FOIA requests as US citizens would get? :confused:

[Undesired Walrus]

Don't know. Something to look into I guess.

[MikeW]

So foreigners have the same access and get the same treatment concerning FOIA requests as US citizens would get? :confused:
Yes. It's well worth a try as once you understand how it works then you'll be able to request documents on more significant issues. Start at foia.fbi.gov , and if you Google for something like "sample foia request" then you'll see lots of example letters to follow.

The only difficult bit, really, is defining the records you want to them to provide. In this case I'd refer them to the web archive report you mentioned, and say you'd like any FBI records that referenced or related to subsequent investigations of what happened, for example any interview of or information provided by Carroll Mooneyhan.

If you want to be thorough then try the Secret Service as well, they may have their own record of the incident.

[Oliver]

Yes. It's well worth a try as once you understand how it works then you'll be able to request documents on more significant issues. Start at foia.fbi.gov , and if you Google for something like "sample foia request" then you'll see lots of example letters to follow.

The only difficult bit, really, is defining the records you want to them to provide. In this case I'd refer them to the web archive report you mentioned, and say you'd like any FBI records that referenced or related to subsequent investigations of what happened, for example any interview of or information provided by Carroll Mooneyhan.

If you want to be thorough then try the Secret Service as well, they may have their own record of the incident.


I did not know that foreigners can make FOIA requests, but good to know, indeed. I will look up how to fill out a request and what personal information they require to get back to me.

[gumboot]

I can recall looking into this incident quite a bit a few years ago. The incident was indeed reported as described, and it did get a bit of press in other media in reaction, but from memory I did see some sort of article in which the Secret Service denied such an event ever happened but investigated the story any way and found no basis in it.

Sounds like a fog-of-war incident that got elaborated on.

[MikeW]

I did not know that foreigners can make FOIA requests, but good to know, indeed. I will look up how to fill out a request and what personal information they require to get back to me.
Good luck! And feel free to ask if you need help. I'm no expert but I have sent a few now, so I've some idea of what works.

[MikeW]

from memory I did see some sort of article in which the Secret Service denied such an event ever happened but investigated the story any way and found no basis in it.
You inspired me to look again, and right away I found this:

One of the most tantalizing stories appeared Sept. 26 in the weekly Longboat Observer, which said Longboat Key fire Marshal Carroll Mooneyhan had overheard a "strange exchange" between a receptionist at the Colony and a security guard.

As related by Mooneyhan, a van occupied by men of Middle Eastern descent had pulled up to the Colony about 6 a.m. on Sept. 11 and said they had a "pool side" interview with the president. The Secret Service said it had no record of an interview and turned them away.

To conspiracy buffs, the incident bore an eerie resemblance to a successful ruse used 8,000 miles away in Afghanistan. On Sept. 9 - two days before the U.S. attacks - Ahmed Massoud, the pro-American leader of the Northern Alliance, had been assassinated by two men posing as journalists and carrying a bomb disguised as a TV camera.

Were the men on Longboat Key planning to kill Bush in similar fashion? The problem with this theory is that Mooneyhan denies he ever told the Observer about any men in a van seeking an interview.

"How did they get that information from me if I didn't know it?" Mooneyhan asks.

The Observer sticks by its story. All the paper and Mooneyhan agree on is that he chatted with a reporter -- he says they were friends -- and that both were questioned by the Secret Service after the story appeared. (The agency wouldn't comment.)
http://www.madcowprod.com/stpetetimes.htm

Hmm.