Absolutely Horrible Show on 911 "Truth"

[Gord_in_Toronto]

November 27/2009

The CBC has just had a really terrible, unjournalistic show on 911. About 90% Truther crap and a bit of token skeptical (of the TTVTH) response. "Big" names on the Truther side and no names on the reason side. A great number of "questions" raised and few rational responses, reasons and answers provided. :mad:

Scarcely a single lie unchallenged.

I am ashamed to be Canadian. :o

You can see it all here:
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2009-2010/the_unofficial_story/

[D'rok]

FFS. I usually really like the Fifth Estate.

[JamesB]

Pretty lame so far. Dewdney comes off... well, if I really said what I think about him after watching his bit on the phone calls I would probably get my account banned.

[fitzgibbon]

I already emailed them about the shortcomings of the show. Told 'em it was almost bad enough to be "W5". That'll larn 'em! :D

eta: Suggested they wander on over here to see that the Gage/DRG/Dewdney 'facts' have been debunked repeatedly since 2006

[Walter Ego]

November 27/2009

The CBC has just had a really terrible, unjournalistic show on 911. About 90% Truther crap and a bit of token skeptical (of the TTVTH) response. "Big" names on the Truther side and no names on the reason side. A great number of "questions" raised and few rational responses, reasons and answers provided. :mad:

Scarcely a single lie unchallenged.

I am ashamed to be Canadian. :o

You can see it all here:
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2009-2010/the_unofficial_story/

The show is already up on You Tube.

TkYlbpS-vVI

I'm still watching it but so far it looks like a very uncritical examination of the US truth movement. The show and the reporter were very anti-George Bush during most of this decade so I don't expect the program to be very objective.

P.S. You can watch the whole show on my blog at the link below.
-

[T.A.M.]

See, I knew I couldn't trust the CBC. Ever since Solomon aired his bullcrap piece in 2006, I have got to say I find them a pak of idiots.

Probably has a truther as a producer.

Anyway, likely to have ZERO impact.

TAM:)

[fitzgibbon]

Them's fightin' werd T.A.M.! :)

Not good compared to CBC normal but head-and-shoulders above W5 and anything emanating from Global

[T.A.M.]

Them's fightin' werd T.A.M.! :)

Not good compared to CBC normal but head-and-shoulders above W5 and anything emanating from Global

I meant CBC when it comes to 9/11. In 2006 Evan Solomon did an expose piece on the TM, featuring Dylan Avery etc...it was far too generous, and involved little to NO investigation of the allegations.

I did not see the documentary Gordon describes above, as I was out, but from his description, it sounds like the CBC did about what I expected it to...a "lets take these kooks at face value" piece.

Would CTV or Global have done any better...who knows.

TAM:)

[fitzgibbon]

I watched it and I'd concur with Gord. It was far from balanced and McKeown acknowledged as much in his end-of-show wrap. Basically, they teleported back to 2006 as far as 'truther' arguments are concerned. Amusingly enough, Gage called thermite "an incendiary that becomes explosive" as a way of explaining girders and such landing away from the WTC but not having to address the lack of a concussion wave that would have made such an explosive ejection audible.

My Reader's Digest© take on the show here

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5353352&postcount=1693

[fitzgibbon]

And re. whether CTV or Global would've done better? Hells no! CTV's budgets for such things are in the dumper and Global's to busy fighting not to become a subsidiary of Goldman Sachs to even look outside Barber Green Drive let alone beyond the national borders.

[T.A.M.]

They are all likely going to die due to the Cable conglomerates.

Too bad.

TAM:)

[fitzgibbon]

CTV's branched-out into a few specialties. Global has Alliance Atlantis' specialties (assuming that they don't get hived-off into a separate non-subsidiary company due to this whole clusterfrack that Lenny's got them into) and CBC has a national governmental mandate (despite the best efforts of the present minority government to fiscally starve it and the arts community at large).

The irony that I've yet to see mentioned is that the cablers are also broadcasters. Bet you haven't seen that in their "Stop the TV Tax" spots. Selective disclosure: that's what the cablers have in common with 'truthers'! :D

/derail for non-Canucks

[T.A.M.]

I get a kick out of the adds actually. You have the Cable company calling for a "stop the tax" add, when really what they are saying is "Stop the tax on us, or we will pass it on to you".

TAM:)

[Walter Ego]

The same show and reporter did a show a few years ago nominally about 9/11 CTs. While seemingly dismissing the more "extreme" CTs, the show entertains LIHOP speculations and quickly segues to the Bush/Saudi/Bin Laden connection.

The real target of this reporter (who also wrote the program) is George Bush.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9169904580025714112&ei=ODYRS6eNMIeOrALumPTJDQ&q=cbc+-+the+fifth+estate+conspiracy+theories&hl=en#

[T.A.M.]

The same show and reporter did a show a few years ago nominally about 9/11 CTs. While seemingly dismissing the more "extreme" CTs, the show entertains LIHOP speculations and quickly segues to the Bush/Saudi/Bin Laden connection.

The real target of this reporter (who also wrote the program) is George Bush.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9169904580025714112&ei=ODYRS6eNMIeOrALumPTJDQ&q=cbc+-+the+fifth+estate+conspiracy+theories&hl=en#

Now I am not impressed. That older doc, along with this new one has me convinced McKeown must be a closet (now not so much) truther.

Shame, i trusted his take on things up until now.

TAM:)

[Walter Ego]

Now I am not impressed. That older doc, along with this new one has me convinced McKeown must be a closet (now not so much) truther.

Shame, i trusted his take on things up until now.

TAM:)

I don't think McKeown is so much pro troof as he is anti-Bush. (The latter not a bad thing to be, IMHO, but one should maintain some perspective.)

[bill smith]

November 27/2009

The CBC has just had a really terrible, unjournalistic show on 911. About 90% Truther crap and a bit of token skeptical (of the TTVTH) response. "Big" names on the Truther side and no names on the reason side. A great number of "questions" raised and few rational responses, reasons and answers provided. :mad:

Scarcely a single lie unchallenged.

I am ashamed to be Canadian. :o

You can see it all here:
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2009-2010/the_unofficial_story/

Excellent. The tide is turning big time. Even CBC know that the Movement for 9/11 Truth is growing by leaps and bounds. Resistance is futile.

[16.5]

"Despite the difference of opinion between those who blame the hijackers and those who blame their own government, the real importance of the fight over 9/11 truth is that it may have less to do with the past than the future."

Bwhahaha! What a meaningless word salad, non conclusion conclusion.

I guess this is parody right? Because whether the planes hit the WTC and the Pentagon is a difference of "opinion."

[Scott Sommers]

Wow, the CBC video is off the air. This is proof it's from the New World Order. Just like the lie when Van Jones was fired from his position with the Obama administration. What surprises me is that, with all this disbelief, why is it that no one will stand with me on public againt the killers? If someone, anyone, I mean even one other person, who stand with me against all the bad people who did these bad things. But they won't. I guess they're too busy playing video games or reruns of Matrix to talk about what really matters. Come one heros for a New American Century, stand up like up like the citizens you are and stop acting like cowards. This is the last chance you'll ever have in your life to avoid being branded as a hotdog weenie. Come on 911 JREF friends...it's the last chance you have in your pathetic lives to do something other than post on the Internet.

[Brainster]

One thing struck me there: Gage recounts the infamous time he was listening to a radio program and heard Grifter's theories. But note where he heard it; on Guns and Butter, a program heard on KPFA, the Pacifica Radio Network, a network famed for far left programming (it's much more liberal than, for example, Air America was).

But Gage himself claims to be a lifelong Republican (http://www.metroactive.com/metro/09.09.09/cover-0936.html):

In an interview with Metro, Gage, 53, a lifelong Republican, described having a moment of clarity when he first heard alternative theories of 9/11 presented in March 2006 by David Ray Griffin. As he tells it, he was driving to a construction meeting and crossed the talk radio political divide that day to listen to progressive Pacifica Radio's KPFA interviewing Griffin.

Now, it's certainly possible that he was listening to the other side for a change of pace, but I'd suspect he's pushing this "lifelong Republican" claim because it gives him added credibility as someone who would not reflexively assume the worst about the Bush Administration.

[bill smith]

Wow, the CBC video is off the air. This is proof it's from the New World Order. Just like the lie when Van Jones was fired from his position with the Obama administration. What surprises me is that, with all this disbelief, why is it that no one will stand with me on public againt the killers? If someone, anyone, I mean even one other person, who stand with me against all the bad people who did these bad things. But they won't. I guess they're too busy playing video games or reruns of Matrix to talk about what really matters. Come one heros for a New American Century, stand up like up like the citizens you are and stop acting like cowards. This is the last chance you'll ever have in your life to avoid being branded as a hotdog weenie. Come on 911 JREF friends...it's the last chance you have in your pathetic lives to do something other than post on the Internet.

See what some people have to say about this Scott.

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

"Propaganda is not meant to fool the intelligencia, it is merely meant to provide them an excuse to avoid seeing ugly realities they’d sooner not believe.”

[Tony Szamboti]

One thing struck me there: Gage recounts the infamous time he was listening to a radio program and heard Grifter's theories. But note where he heard it; on Guns and Butter, a program heard on KPFA, the Pacifica Radio Network, a network famed for far left programming (it's much more liberal than, for example, Air America was).

But Gage himself claims to be a lifelong Republican (http://www.metroactive.com/metro/09.09.09/cover-0936.html):



Now, it's certainly possible that he was listening to the other side for a change of pace, but I'd suspect he's pushing this "lifelong Republican" claim because it gives him added credibility as someone who would not reflexively assume the worst about the Bush Administration.

You make an interesting observation here, but I have to say that I listen to right wing radio talk shows in the car on the way to work, and while I wouldn't consider myself a leftist much of what they say are opposite of my views. I listen to them just to see what they are saying. I even watch Fox News at times to see what they are saying, although I don't agree with much that they say.

I think Richard Gage describes himself as having been a Reagan Republican. Ronald Reagan was quite popular among a large cross section of society. That is why the term Reagan Democrats was coined.

[TexasJack]

One thing struck me there: Gage recounts the infamous time he was listening to a radio program and heard Grifter's theories. But note where he heard it; on Guns and Butter, a program heard on KPFA, the Pacifica Radio Network, a network famed for far left programming (it's much more liberal than, for example, Air America was).

But Gage himself claims to be a lifelong Republican (http://www.metroactive.com/metro/09.09.09/cover-0936.html):



Now, it's certainly possible that he was listening to the other side for a change of pace, but I'd suspect he's pushing this "lifelong Republican" claim because it gives him added credibility as someone who would not reflexively assume the worst about the Bush Administration.

What are the chances of anyone being a lifelong republican from the bay area? :D

[The Platypus]

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary... etc blah blah blah..."

This is one of the most ridiculous and outrageous lies i hear 911 traitors say all too often... How they think this will fool anyone sane boggles my mind...

I have never seen anyone in my life of 40 years now that that thinks that political leaders are just and fair even partially let alone totally. Never have i seen someone that doesn't have some grips about the gov't, our political leaders and the system. I have yet to find one person that doesn't find them inept, unjust and unfair in some way...

They are politicians, they all lie, they all cheat, they abuse their power and have constant scandals, they are all greasy and greedy and pander to whoever is filling their pockets at the time. It's all part of the game of politics...

Where are these "most people" they speak of?

[AJM8125]

What are the chances of anyone being a lifelong republican from the bay area? :D

Now now, there are plenty of republicans here in the Bay Area - we just don't elect them. ;)

[Childlike Empress]

One thing struck me there: Gage recounts the infamous time he was listening to a radio program and heard Grifter's theories. But note where he heard it; on Guns and Butter, a program heard on KPFA, the Pacifica Radio Network, a network famed for far left programming (it's much more liberal than, for example, Air America was).

But Gage himself claims to be a lifelong Republican:


IIRC i've heard him say quite recently that he listened to Guns & Butter (http://www.kpfa.org/archive/show/34) randomly on the car radio. Hmm, where was it? I think it was on the Global Research News Hour (http://republicbroadcasting.org/Global%20Research/index.php?cmd=archives.year&ProgramID=33&year=9), maybe this (http://216.240.133.177/archives32/Chossudovsky/2009/09/Chossudovsky_1_091709_100000.mp3) one.

[Algebra34]

One thing struck me there: Gage recounts the infamous time he was listening to a radio program and heard Grifter's theories. But note where he heard it; on Guns and Butter, a program heard on KPFA, the Pacifica Radio Network, a network famed for far left programming (it's much more liberal than, for example, Air America was).

But Gage himself claims to be a lifelong Republican (http://www.metroactive.com/metro/09.09.09/cover-0936.html):

Now, it's certainly possible that he was listening to the other side for a change of pace, but I'd suspect he's pushing this "lifelong Republican" claim because it gives him added credibility as someone who would not reflexively assume the worst about the Bush Administration.

Well I'm pretty much a life long liberal but I tune into Hannity/Limbaugh/Beck and the rest of the nuthouse from time to time. I even listened to Michael Savage daily for a while there. It was the best entertainment on the radio I could find during my ride home. Very funny too. Just because I hear something on the radio opposite from how I think doesn't mean I won't listen to it. How can you form an opinion about someone if you don't listen to what they have to say? I also wouldn't call most conspiracy groups bleeding heart liberals. For instance is Alex Jones a liberal?

Come to think about it I hang out here sometimes.

[Corsair 115]

The CBC has just had a really terrible, unjournalistic show on 911. About 90% Truther crap and a bit of token skeptical (of the TTVTH) response...


That doesn't surprise me. I saw that the show was on, but couldn't bring myself to watch it. So it was even worse than when The Agenda on TVO did an episode on 9/11 conspiracy theories?

In terms of the show being of poor journalistic quality, I wonder if it's just coincidence that it airs not long after Newsworld's rebranding into CBC News Network. To my eye CBC's journalistic standards seemed to drop considerably in conjunction with that rebranding.


Not good compared to CBC normal but head-and-shoulders above W5 and anything emanating from Global


W5 has its moments. It was the program which did the piece about the three questionable RCMP shooting incidents in B.C.


I get a kick out of the adds actually. You have the Cable company calling for a "stop the tax" add, when really what they are saying is "Stop the tax on us, or we will pass it on to you".


I like how the make a big deal out of the local television networks' "$400 million in operating profit last year" while remaining silent about the operating profit of the cable companies last year.

[T.A.M.]

Excellent. The tide is turning big time. Even CBC know that the Movement for 9/11 Truth is growing by leaps and bounds. Resistance is futile.

lol..what ever lets you sleep at night Bill.

TAM:)

[CDRM]

From the synopsis:
In The Unofficial Story, Bob McKeown explores why these questions and theories are growing in popularity.

Is it really growing in popularity? I could've sworn the numbers have been dwindling for a few years now.

[T.A.M.]

From the synopsis:


Is it really growing in popularity? I could've sworn the numbers have been dwindling for a few years now.

exactly the reason why either (A) CBC is way behind the curve, or (B) someone on his staff or the producing staff, is a closet truther.

TAM:)

[Brainster]

Several people have stated on this thread that they listen to the other side of the political fence occasionally. Of course I pointed out that possibility in my post. But, and this is the key point, how many of you have listened to talk radio from the other side of the political fence and said, "You know what, he's right!" Any liberals had the experience of nodding in agreement with Rush Limbaugh, or conservatives who found that Al Franken made a pretty good argument?

Remember, this is Gage's "road to Damascus moment", the experience that changed his life forever.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

the Movement for 9/11 Truth is growing by leaps and bounds.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Resistance is futile.

Using the motto of a fictional aggressive expansionist collective that consumes and destroys individuality and represses independent thought is probably not the best way to represent your movement.

[Sam.I.Am]

What are the chances of anyone being a lifelong republican from the bay area? :D

Here's one. I've been registered as a Republican since 1981 and was born and raised here and have lived here most of my life. It really doesn't matter (aside for the Primaries) what party you're registered as, although from what I understand, I do get a lot less political junk mail than my friends who're registered as Democrats. So I got that going for me...

[fitzgibbon]

That doesn't surprise me. I saw that the show was on, but couldn't bring myself to watch it. So it was even worse than when The Agenda on TVO did an episode on 9/11 conspiracy theories?

I'd say


In terms of the show being of poor journalistic quality, I wonder if it's just coincidence that it airs not long after Newsworld's rebranding into CBC News Network. To my eye CBC's journalistic standards seemed to drop considerably in conjunction with that rebranding.

Coincidence. Newsworld's second window. What's done for a show on the main network is done with the main network in mind. Also bear in mind that the CBC has been suffering for some time from a death by a thousand cuts. Everyone thinks it to be a fiscal black hole while simultaneously ignoring the depth of its mandate.


W5 has its moments. It was the program which did the piece about the three questionable RCMP shooting incidents in B.C.

But I've found that to be the exception with W5. There too, the pressure's on to do more with less and then criticising when it appears on-screen as less than what was.

Damned if you do.....


I like how the make a big deal out of the local television networks' "$400 million in operating profit last year" while remaining silent about the operating profit of the cable companies last year.

Or that the cablers are also broadcasters. Wouldn't want it spread too widely around that Jimmy Shaw and the Rogers Estate have a finger in each pot, would we?

/rant off :)

[Graham2001]

The same show and reporter did a show a few years ago nominally about 9/11 CTs. While seemingly dismissing the more "extreme" CTs, the show entertains LIHOP speculations and quickly segues to the Bush/Saudi/Bin Laden connection.

The real target of this reporter (who also wrote the program) is George Bush.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9169904580025714112&ei=ODYRS6eNMIeOrALumPTJDQ&q=cbc+-+the+fifth+estate+conspiracy+theories&hl=en#

I'm even less impressed, Bush has been out of office since 2007, but then in Trutherland Obama = Bush

[AJM8125]

The thing that surprised me (though not a lot) is Griffin and Kee Dewdney still spouting off about "impossible" cell calls. I thought that was stuff not even truthers will touch anymore. Their fail knows no bounds.

[Graham2001]

The thing that surprised me (though not a lot) is Griffin and Kee Dewdney still spouting off about "impossible" cell calls. I thought that was stuff not even truthers will touch anymore. Their fail knows no bounds.

Is it too much to hope that this was made in 2006 and has only just been released, because if it was not then...

[JihadJane]

The real target of this reporter (who also wrote the program) is George Bush.



Poor George.

Why's everyone so nasty to the little puppet?

[T.A.M.]

Several people have stated on this thread that they listen to the other side of the political fence occasionally. Of course I pointed out that possibility in my post. But, and this is the key point, how many of you have listened to talk radio from the other side of the political fence and said, "You know what, he's right!" Any liberals had the experience of nodding in agreement with Rush Limbaugh, or conservatives who found that Al Franken made a pretty good argument?

Remember, this is Gage's "road to Damascus moment", the experience that changed his life forever.

I am not sure I have, or ever will agree with Limbaugh on ANYTHING, for what it is worth.

TAM:)

[Walter Ego]

I watched it and I'd concur with Gord. It was far from balanced and McKeown acknowledged as much in his end-of-show wrap. Basically, they teleported back to 2006 as far as 'truther' arguments are concerned. Amusingly enough, Gage called thermite "an incendiary that becomes explosive" as a way of explaining girders and such landing away from the WTC but not having to address the lack of a concussion wave that would have made such an explosive ejection audible.


Having watched the whole show, my take is that is was just sloppy, lazy journalism. Most of the truther's outlandish claims went mostly unchallenged. (Did anyone catch Craig Ranke's statement that there were explosives inside the Pentagon? Is that something new?) The "other side" of the argument was poorly represented.

On this plus side, A.K. "Cellphones don't work at 50k feet" Dewdney came off like an ignorant, arrogant prick but he probably doesn't need any journalist prodding to accomplish that feat.

[alienentity]

Saw it Friday night. I was quite PO'd and both emailed and phoned.

Suggest all of you consider same, and do give references if possible, so they can't just dismiss you as 'cranks'.

I thought it was irresponsible to present the 'unofficial story' so well, it was almost like a Richard Gage infomercial.

[fitzgibbon]

Done and done. Suggested that they might swing by here and do a quick search on all the claims that were debunked in 2006.

[BigAl]

Got a link to contact the show?

[bill smith]

Here's an opportunity for those outside Canada to see
'Fifth Estate's' view of the growing 9/11 Truth Movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkYlbpS-vVI&feature=player_embedded#

PS: Just for convenience:

CBC: The Unofficial Story of 9/11'' 27-11-2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkYlbpS-vVI&feature=related 1-5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4xhrJyKGQ8&feature=related 2-5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=femgO-ZYDm0&feature=related 3-5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_Wz32XXixA&feature=related 4-5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNP-KpBwExE&feature=related 5-5

[bill smith]

Let's face it- you debunkers are being rejected big time. This show is proof positive. This is just a start.

[DGM]

Let's face it- you debunkers are being rejected big time. This show is proof positive. This is just a start.
How many times are you going to "start"?

[fitzgibbon]

Got a link to contact the show?

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/contact.html

Comments here as well. (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/discussion/2009/11/the_unofficial_story.html#comments)

[fitzgibbon]

How many times are you going to "start"?

Again and again and again and again and again and again and again and

[bill smith]

Again and again and again and again and again and again and again and
You got that right Fitz. Forever.

[DGM]

You got that right Fitz. Forever.
I thought you said you already won? Why are you starting again?

[fitzgibbon]

Actually, some of the comments on that page are hilarious.

"It was ok, but being an x pilot, I know jets are scrabbled fast, Payn Stewart plane was intercepted with in five Minutes of his plane going off course, that was before 911" :boggled:

[AJM8125]

Let's face it- you debunkers are being rejected big time. This show is proof positive. This is just a start.

Actually bill, it's good that truthers get some airtime occasionally. People sometimes need a stark reminder of what a bunch of crooks and liars your "movement" has spawned. So if it's Gage contradicting himself or Griffin lying through his dentures, it's all good.

[bill smith]

Actually, some of the comments on that page are hilarious.

"It was ok, but being an x pilot, I know jets are scrabbled fast, Payn Stewart plane was intercepted with in five Minutes of his plane going off course, that was before 911" :boggled:

We don't really need that old minor stuff any more. Or even he BBC and WTC7 thing. They are just distractions.

[bill smith]

Actually bill, it's good that truthers get some airtime occasionally. People sometimes need a stark reminder of what a bunch of crooks and liars your "movement" has spawned. So if it's Gage contradicting himself or Griffin lying through his dentures, it's all good.

I agree totally and may there be as much more of it as I anticipte there will be.

[DGM]

I agree totally and may there be as much more of it as I anticipte there will be.
stark reminder of what a bunch of crooks and liars your "movement" has spawned.

Are you sure you want this?:boggled:

[AJM8125]

I agree totally and may there be as much more of it as I anticipte there will be.

You're OK with them exposing themselves as frauds? I hope you get your wish.

[BigAl]

I agree totally and may there be as much more of it as I anticipte there will be.

Today you've got nothing that you didn't have 8 years ago.

Tomorrow and next year will be no different.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Saw it Friday night. I was quite PO'd and both emailed and phoned.

Suggest all of you consider same, and do give references if possible, so they can't just dismiss you as 'cranks'.

I thought it was irresponsible to present the 'unofficial story' so well, it was almost like a Richard Gage infomercial.

I actually sent an e-mail to the producers before posting here. If I don't get a sensible response, I'll escalate to "higher levels".

I may even watch the entire thing again and attempt a point-by-point refutation. But I'll have to build up my courage first. ;)

[bill smith]

I thought you said you already won? Why are you starting again?

What tells me we have won DGM is what the guy in part 5 says. He says that when he travels to places like Malaysia the people there are now asking him 'so did you Ameericans do it yourselves '? The question will be on every lip worldwide soon.

The question really IS 'so did you do it yourselves' ? The world will require a detailed answer in the form of a searching independent enquiry.

I also hink everybody sould watch part 3 about the faked phonecalls like we Truthers have been saying for years.

[bill smith]

I actually sent an e-mail to the producers before posting here. If I don't get a sensible response, I'll escalate to "higher levels".

I may even watch the entire thing again and attempt a point-by-point refutation. But I'll have to build up my courage first. ;)

Go for it and we may throw in a comment or two as well.

[AJM8125]

.

Are you sure you want this?:boggled:

I'd hate to think that the creation of the truth movement was primarily due to a lack of reading comprehension but time and again I'm finding this to be the case.

[DGM]

What tells me we have won DGM is what the guy in part 5 says. He says that when he travels to places like Malaysia the people there are now asking him 'so did you Ameericans do it yourselves '? The question will be on every lip worldwide soon.

The question really IS 'so did you do it yourselves' ? The world will require a detailed answer in the form of a searching independent enquiry.

I also hink everybody sould watch part 3 about the faked phonecalls like we Truthers have been saying for years.
Again with the "independent". What's stopping you from doing it? Certainly not us.

[BigAl]

What tells me we have won DGM is what the guy in part 5 says. He says that when he travels to places like Malaysia the people there are now asking him 'so did you Ameericans do it yourselves '? The question will be on every lip worldwide soon.


Why is it that there is effectively no "Truth Movement" in Washington and NYC, the two places with the most eyewitnesses and the most families that lost family members on 9/11?

[bill smith]

.

Are you sure you want this?:boggled:

We have reached the final category of gandhi's statement DGM. You know it.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi.

[DGM]

I'd hate to think that the creation of the truth movement was primarily due to a lack of reading comprehension but time and again I'm finding this to be the case.
Most of the time I think I'm talking to a machine. You know, automated responses. What do they call them now, "truther bots"?

[BigAl]

We have reached the final category of gandhi's statement DGM. You know it.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi.

You can't hear the sound of laughter over the Internets.

[bill smith]

Why is it that there is effectively no "Truth Movement" in Washington and NYC, the two places with the most eyewitnesses and the most families that lost family members on 9/11?

You have to admit it Al. For a non-existent organisation 9/11 Truth seems to make a lot of waves.

[DGM]

We have reached the final category of gandhi's statement DGM. You know it.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi.
You've got the order all wrong. First we fought, then we laughed, then we (tried to) ignore but still we laugh some more. You do know we do this for fun?

[bill smith]

Most of the time I think I'm talking to a machine. You know, automated responses. What do they call them now, "truther bots"?

I am a Samira-7 AI unit. The Super-Truther series. You may have noticed that some new ones from the same series have been introduced here and there on the forum.

[fitzgibbon]

You've got the order all wrong. First we fought, then we laughed, then we (tried to) ignore but still we laugh some more. You do know we do this for fun?

:D

It won't dawn on him that he's and his kin are the subject of derision. More's the better.

[DGM]

I am a Samira-7 AI unit. The Super-Truther series. You may have noticed that some new ones from the same series have been introduced here and there on the forum.
Makes sense to me. When are you going to be programed to actually read responses and respond to the content.

[AJM8125]

I am a Samira-7 AI unit. The Super-Truther series. You may have noticed that some new ones from the same series have been introduced here and there on the forum.

It'd be funnier if I knew for sure you're not being serious.

[bill smith]

:D

It won't dawn on him that he's and his kin are the subject of derision. More's the better.

A debunker's derision is less than meaningless to somebody who knows absolutely that you are defending murderers and traitors. I have no doubt that many here are prefessional paid debunkers and many others are just led by the nose.

[I Ratant]

You've got the order all wrong. First we fought, then we laughed, then we (tried to) ignore but still we laugh some more. You do know we do this for fun?
.
Slow Sunday mornings when the frost is still on the pumpkins keeps us inside, where cheap amusement is available 24/7.

[bill smith]

Again with the "independent". What's stopping you from doing it? Certainly not us.

Itwould seem appropriate that the American Government is forced to authorise and fund the new enquiry. An ironic form of 'seppuku' that will be.lol

[Sword_Of_Truth]

How many times are you going to "start"?Again and again and again and again and again and again and again and You got that right Fitz. Forever.

Bill Smiths concession that the twoof movement is permanently stuck in first gear noted and quoted.

[DGM]

Itwould seem appropriate that the American Government is forced to authorise and fund the new enquiry. An ironic form of 'seppuku' that will be.lol
Now that wouldn't be "independent" now would it? What's stopping the "truth" movement from conducting an independent investigation? You want it, DO IT!

[Sword_Of_Truth]

It would seem appropriate that the American Government is forced to authorise and fund the new enquiry. An ironic form of 'seppuku' that will be. lol

They authorized and funded the last investigation and you didn't like the results.

[bill smith]

They authorized and funded the last investigation and you didn't like the results.
We will help them to get it right this time. Some coast-to-coast National debates should guarantee that.

[AJM8125]

We will help them to get it right this time. Some coast-to-coast National debates should guarantee that.

Working from a predetermined conclusion based on assumptions, conjecture and outright lies then going backwards from there. Let me know how that works out.

[DGM]

We will help them to get it right this time. Some coast-to-coast National debates should guarantee that.
But if the USG pays for it it's not really independent, is it? Or do you just want that "out" in-case you don't like the result (again)?

[bill smith]

Working from a predetermined conclusion based on assumptions, conjecture and outright lies then going backwards from there. Let me know how that works out.

WE will just show what we've got and see what the people say. What could be wrong with that ? lol

[AJM8125]

WE will just show what we've got and see what the people say. What could be wrong with that ? lol

It's wrong? That's what I'd say. *shrugs*

[bill smith]

It's wrong? That's what I'd say. *shrugs*

We cannot afford to let them get away with this. Do you want to end up as a slave ? Do the right thing and help bring them to book.

[AJM8125]

We cannot afford to let them get away with this. Do you want to end up as a slave ? Do the right thing and help bring them to book.

Who are "them"?

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Go for it and we may throw in a comment or two as well.

Who is "we", Bill? :(

[bill smith]

Who is "we", Bill? :(

Lawdy Lawdy ...if you don't sound jes' like a big bad G-man Gord.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by bill smith http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=5356953#post5356953)
"Go for it and we may throw in a comment or two as well."

yes, who is "we"?


Originally Posted by bill smith http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=5357155#post5357155)
"We cannot afford to let them get away with this. Do you want to end up as a slave ? Do the right thing and help bring them to book"

who is "them"? get away with what exactly?

Truthers are already slaves to Alex Jones, Steven Jones, Mr. Craig, Dylan Avery, and all the other Truther demagogues. So it wouldn't be much of a difference, now would it Bill?

[Walter Ego]

People who should know better are responding to B.S.

That's my cue to stop reading this thread. :mad:

[bill smith]

People who should know better are responding to B.S.

That's my cue to stop reading this thread. :mad:

If hat is he full strength of your contribution then you are right to stop participating in this thread.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi.

The 9/11 Twoof Movement: Stage 1 and holding since 2001!

[bill smith]

The 9/11 Twoof Movement: Stage 1 and holding since 2001!

No offence SOT but that's deeply stupid. Can you really say that we we still being ignored ? Please say 'yes'.

[Thunder]

The 9/11 Twoof Movement: Stage 1 and holding since 2001!

well, you see, when it comes to Truthers, its a little different:

"First you think you have won, then they fight you, then they laugh at you, then they ignore you, then your movement slips away into nothingness." -Parky76

:p

[Sword_Of_Truth]

No offence SOT but tht's deeply stupid.

Offence taken. And compared to everything you have written here, not even close.

Can you really say that we we still being ignored ?

Where's that new investigation you ordered?

[T.A.M.]

No offence SOT but tht's deeply stupid. Can you really say that we we still being ignored ? Please say 'yes'.

Still? who said you were being ignored? I watched many of your insane leaders on the tube in 2006. Then there was the New World Order movie last year. Now the CBC piece.

Nah, you guys get occasional attention.

My stand is no one believes any of the bullcrap your movement spews...Your movement is nearly dead because nobody believes you.

But bill, if you and I are still alive in 10 years, that is 2019, lets come back here, and see how far your movement has gotten.

TAM:)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Nah, you guys get occasional attention.

I respectfully disagree, T.A.M.

The UFO kooks have had entire mega-successful TV series, movies and video games written all about their silly beliefs (X-Files, Close Encounters, Independence Day, X-Com: UFO Defense etc...). But how much has their pop culture influence translated to political clout that they have used to achieve their goals?

The answer is virtually zero.

The 9/11 twoofers are actually outnumbered by UFO nuts and their cultural penetration is infinitesimal compared to the space cadets. At best, they're a punchline to a joke. Politically, they only influence they have is in getting people fired for being one of them. The ex-Green Jobs czar signed their petition once and now he's joined them in the welfare line-up.

At they societal and political level, they're in the ignore box.

[Edx]

And dont forget FOX did that Moon Hoax documentary with Skinner from X-Files narrating several years ago :)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

And dont forget FOX did that Moon Hoax documentary with Skinner from X-Files narrating several years ago :)

Yeah... and that was a conspiraquack-friendly "documentary". The only serious treatments of 9/11 twoofiness by mainstream media sources have been from Popular Mechanics, The History Channel, National Geographic and the BBC (x2). And each one of these was absolutely devastating to the twoofers.

Bill, you better pray you are ignored. Because when you're not, you're getting it up the poop-chute and being called "Missy" (and strangely, some of you like it anyways).

[JamesB]

We have reached the final category of gandhi's statement DGM. You know it.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi.

A more appropriate quote would be:

"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. "
-Carl Sagan-

[cantonear1968]

I'm watching the show now. Just finished part 2 where the guy says the Pentagon was blown up with explosives from within. He doesn't explain what happened to the plane though. That must have been an inconvient part that he just decided to leave out!

It's unfortunate that McKeown obviously did no research on this at all. It's like he let Gage write his script for him and decided that checking it out would have taken too much time. What's sad is that some people will be influenced by this because they will be too lazy to research it themselves.

Finally for the truthers, a REAL example of the shoddy journalism they've been screaming about for 8 years.

[cantonear1968]

Dewdney!?

Did anybody watch the episode of Penn and Tellers's Bulls**t: Conpiracies? The guy who thought the moon landing was a hoax? That's who Dewdney reminded me of! Someone who would say any crazy thing that jumped into his head!

"Mark Bingham. OK. Whatever."

No. Not whatever.

[Comrade Raptor]

I would like to take a moment to acknowledge our old friend: irony.

For some considerable time the truthers have complained that suppression of their ideas has come about because of the government-owned media. Which is not actually government-owned.

And then they practically wet themselves over coverage from...

A media source that actually is, literally, government owned.


Irony, we love you. We do. You never let us down, old friend.

[Furcifer]

Anyone keeping track? I think this is the most talked about show on CBC since David Suzuki showed us the Nature of His Thing.

Except perhaps the Degrassi Jr. High finale.

[we know return you to you regularly scheduled derailment]

[Comrade Raptor]

Oh, and if it hasn't been mentioned yet and you'd like to lodge a complaint where it might actually have some effect... here you go:

http://www.cbc.ca/ombudsman/page/contact.html

[cantonear1968]

Well, McKeown kind of saved himself at the end. Gage was the same: when faced with a real question he falls back on the "we need a real invesigation" invocation that has served him so well for the last 3 years. Nothing new in this of course except for those who haven't researched it. I just pray they don't go to Gage's website!

[Arus808]

of course the truthers reactiosn re typical. "finally, the truth on MS Tv!" "this only proves that the claims by the 911 truth movement has weight!"

[Edx]

Yeah... and that was a conspiraquack-friendly "documentary". The only serious treatments of 9/11 twoofiness by mainstream media sources have been from Popular Mechanics, The History Channel, National Geographic and the BBC (x2). And each one of these was absolutely devastating to the twoofers.

Bill, you better pray you are ignored. Because when you're not, you're getting it up the poop-chute and being called "Missy" (and strangely, some of you like it anyways).

But arent we in a thread that is about a "documentary" friendly to truthiness?

And there seems to be uncritical interview of truthers in a variety of media places.

[Edx]

I would like to take a moment to acknowledge our old friend: irony.

For some considerable time the truthers have complained that suppression of their ideas has come about because of the government-owned media. Which is not actually government-owned.

And then they practically wet themselves over coverage from...

A media source that actually is, literally, government owned.


Irony, we love you. We do. You never let us down, old friend.

What I love is the contradiction.

Truthers are usually of the "Global Warming is a Conspiracy!" variety as well, yet FOX news and other right wing political pundits that they accuse of being government agents to suppress the troof about 911... somehow agree with them on Global Warming.

[dudalb]

Bill Smiths concession that the twoof movement is permanently stuck in first gear noted and quoted.\
First Gear????
Hell, they never even got the motor started.

[beachnut]

We have reached the final category of gandhi's statement DGM. You know it.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi.
When the ignorance you supports wins, we all loose. The use of quotes by the 911 liars you support is most ironic; your use is the same. Why do you strive to remain free of knowledge and evidence on 911?

The shows giving time to the lies you support on 911 are produced by those ignorant on 911 issues.

Gandhi would not condone the ignorance you support.
"Truth is by nature self-evident. As soon as you remove the cobwebs of ignorance that surround it, it shines clear. "
The ideas you support on 911 are what Gandhi calls the "cobwebs of ignorance". You have the wrong quotes and zero evidence.

[dudalb]

People who should know better are responding to B.S.

That's my cue to stop reading this thread. :mad:

BS (and how appropriate those initials are, in more ways then one)made my ignore list today. The stupidity went from amusing to annoyning.

[alienentity]

Further to some of the unsupported claims broadcast in this show, I did a new video showing that the 9 second collapse claim for WTC1 is utter garbage - but that didn't stop the Fifth Estate from broadcasting the claim as if it were a fact.

The only reason I'm bothering to do this is because the show was just released and needs to be countered.


MAYXdafNl6E[/QUOTE]

[bill smith]

What I love is the contradiction.

Truthers are usually of the "Global Warming is a Conspiracy!" variety as well, yet FOX news and other right wing political pundits that they accuse of being government agents to suppress the troof about 911... somehow agree with them on Global Warming.

Glabal Warming is happening- but the human contribution to that warming is probably negligible. The scientific evidence that proves this is abundent but is highly suppressed by western governments. Best not to deny this last fact as it is breaking news in the UK today though it has been a public secret known to millions of clued-in people for a long time. Exactly like 9/11.

The other side of the story (the true side) is about to be examined on the subject of Global Warming and 9/11 will be next.

It is time to control or stop governments from manipulating scientific data for political purposes.

If anybody has doubts about the Global Warming Swindle you should find or hire a BBC movie called ''The Great Global Warming Swindle ' which will open your eyes.

It never lasts long online (One or two days is the longest I've ever seen it survive) so if you find it watch it right away. Clips on youtube are not enough.

[bill smith]

So who found a working stream ?

[BigAl]

If anybody has doubts about the Global Warming Swindle you should find or hire a BBC movie called ''The Great Global Warming Swindle ' which will open your eyes.


Read the pro and con about that TV show on this Wiki page. Also, note that it is 2+ years old and lots of new evidence and science has come out since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle

Although the documentary was welcomed by global warming sceptics, it was criticised heavily by many scientific organisations and individual scientists (including two of the film's contributors[7][8]). The film's critics argued that it had misused and fabricated data, relied on out-of-date research, employed misleading arguments, and misrepresented the position of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.[9][10][11][12] Channel 4 and Wag TV (the production company) accepted some of the criticism, correcting a few errors in subsequent releases.[13] However according to Bob Ward (former spokesman for the Royal Society), this still left five out of seven of the errors and misleading arguments which had been previously attacked by him and 36 other scientists in an open letter.[11]

The British broadcasting regulator, the Office of Communications (Ofcom), received 265 complaints about the programme, one of which was a 176-page detailed complaint co-authored by a group of scientists.[14][15] Ofcom used this complaint in its deliberation,[2] and delivered its ruling on 21 July 2008. It ruled that the programme had unfairly treated Sir David King, the IPCC and Professor Carl Wunsch. Ofcom also found that part 5 of the programme (the 'political' part) had breached several parts of the Broadcasting Code regarding impartiality

[Captain.Sassy]

I dunno what's going on with CBC Newsworld these days. EVeryone standing around and walking back and forth, Peter Mansbridge looks tired as hell. And they got rid of Fred Langan! Who told them that was a good idea? And they've got that blowhard from Dragon's Den doing the business/economics reporting now!? YEesh.



That doesn't surprise me. I saw that the show was on, but couldn't bring myself to watch it. So it was even worse than when The Agenda on TVO did an episode on 9/11 conspiracy theories?

whu!? Steve Paiken's usually that dude!




I like how the make a big deal out of the local television networks' "$400 million in operating profit last year" while remaining silent about the operating profit of the cable companies last year.

35% IIRC. Goddam CRTC needs some teeth.

[Macgyver1968]

\
First Gear????
Hell, they never even got the motor started.

Yeah...they've been sitting, wheel-less on cinderblocks in the front yard of the trailer since 2006.

[triforcharity]

Glabal Warming is happening- but the human contribution to that warming is probably negligible. The scientific evidence that proves this is abundent but is highly suppressed by western governments. Best not to deny this last fact as it is breaking news in the UK today though it has been a public secret known to millions of clued-in people for a long time. Exactly like 9/11.

The other side of the story (the true side) is about to be examined on the subject of Global Warming and 9/11 will be next.

It is time to control or stop governments from manipulating scientific data for political purposes.

If anybody has doubts about the Global Warming Swindle you should find or hire a BBC movie called ''The Great Global Warming Swindle ' which will open your eyes.

It never lasts long online (One or two days is the longest I've ever seen it survive) so if you find it watch it right away. Clips on youtube are not enough.

Well, at least you have your priorities straight.

Truther: WE TAKE ON GLOBAL WARMING.

Other Truther: Wait, I thought we were trying to bring the US down for the events of 9/11??

Truther: We will, just as soon as we figure out this global warming thing.

[Dave Rogers]

Glabal Warming is happening- but the human contribution to that warming is probably negligible. The scientific evidence that proves this is abundent but is highly suppressed by western governments. Best not to deny this last fact as it is breaking news in the UK today though it has been a public secret known to millions of clued-in people for a long time.

And, once again, bill smith displays his inability to comprehend virtually anything.

Dave

[alienentity]

Glabal Warming is happening- yada yada



The most intelligent posts Bill Smith has yet made....on 9/11 ;)

[bill smith]

And, once again, bill smith displays his inability to comprehend virtually anything.

Dave

Just a word to the wise Dave. I have a feeling that the readers are probably noticing by now that your posts do not reflect what might be expected from an internationally known physicist and author.

[bill smith]

The most intelligent posts Bill Smith has yet made....on 9/11 ;)

I would take you down here except that I have having a little rest as bardamu shoulders the burden of running you guys ragged. Recharging the ol' batteries ypu might say. One single Super-Truther at a time and you are like the proverbial chickens with the heads cut off. One or two more from the University of Truth and we will have you hopelessly outnumbered.

[fitzgibbon]

One single Super-Truther at a time and you are like the proverbial chickens with the heads cut off. One or two more from the University of Truth and we will have you hopelessly outnumbered.

Channeling Abba I see, eh bs? BTW, do you actually have any intention of addressing the points that you said you'd look into "later"? Or is "later" in your lexicon synonymous with 'just before the Second Coming'?

An enquiring mind expects to be left waiting on a reasoned response. :rolleyes:

[Childlike Empress]

:D

For bill, here's Super Truther:
Z4zcCIfX8ec

There have been worse anthems...

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I would take you down here except that I have having a little rest as bardamu shoulders the burden of running you guys ragged.

You better end your vacation, Bill. Bardamu has already conceded that the Twin Tower collapses were natural and not at all unusual given their condition.

[tsig]

But arent we in a thread that is about a "documentary" friendly to truthiness?

And there seems to be uncritical interview of truthers in a variety of media places.

They're looking for love in all the wrong places.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uni6MhgaDzs

[bardamu]

I would take you down here except that I have having a little rest as bardamu shoulders the burden of running you guys ragged. Recharging the ol' batteries ypu might say. One single Super-Truther at a time and you are like the proverbial chickens with the heads cut off. One or two more from the University of Truth and we will have you hopelessly outnumbered.

A well-deserved rest, Bill.

[triforcharity]

Why? The only thing I have seen him claim is
A: FDNY was in on it
B: There was nanothermite pumped into the center of the colmumn, which in turn made the fly. Or something like that?

At least you claim something. Too bad what you claim is absolutely foolish and disgusting.

[bill smith]

:D

For bill, here's Super Truther:
Z4zcCIfX8ec

There have been worse anthems...

I want to adopt the Abba-Teens version which is pretty faithful to the original but even more uptempo and catchy.

[Redtail]

I want to adopt the Abba...

Aaaaaaand done!