Apparently 9/11 was staged (yeah, right)

[Dorian Gray]

Some wack job claims 9/11 was a conspiracy by the government to ultimately get Iraqi oil.... somehow. The details are all right here, written by John Kaminsky (http://www.serendipity.li/wot/911_a_hoax.htm).

Sample:The twin towers could not have collapsed as a result of burning jet fuel. Most of that fuel was consumed on impact. In the south tower, most of the fuel was spilled outside the building. Heat caused by burning jet fuel does not reach temperatures needed to melt steel. What does stand out as particularly suspicious and still unexplained is that fires raged out of control beneath THREE of the collapsed towers for ONE HUNDRED DAYS, clearly indicating the presence of some kind of substance utilized in the demolition of the structures.
The Twin Towers did not fall because of plane impacts or fires. Most likely explosives were placed on structural supports in the towers (as was done in Oklahoma City), and these controlled implosions snuffed out the lives of three thousand people.
The difference between this guy and all the other wack jobs with conspiracy theories is that this one actually gave his e-mail address. So drop him a note and let him know what a genius he is, ok? It's at the bottom of the page, and it's also skylax@comcast.net.

[Regnad Kcin]

Oh my. In that paragraph alone there are more mistakes than not.

Really, it's nice that the guy exhibits a degree of skepticism. But at some point one has to concede to oneself that water is, afterall, wet.

[Bluegill]

I wonder why he believes that 3000 people actually died, or that the WTC buildings actually ever existed at all? It's probably just a government conspiracy to get him to pay his taxes or something.

[Pyrrho]

Some valid references:

http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc.php

http://www.fema.gov/library/wtcstudy.shtm

http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/wtc.php

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/03/nyregion/03TOWE.html?ex=1073192400&en=2ca35336ffeaefae&ei=5070

[BTox]

I know a kook (my neighbor) who believes the Oklahoma City bombing was a conspiracy conducted by the Clinton admin to give an excuse to wage war on militia groups. So this 9/11 claim does not surprise me.

[Chaos]

Originally posted by BTox
I know a kook (my neighbor) who believes the Oklahoma City bombing was a conspiracy conducted by the Clinton admin to give an excuse to wage war on militia groups. So this 9/11 claim does not surprise me.

"wage war on militia groups"?

Did they do that? This is the first thing I hear about that.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by BTox
I know a kook (my neighbor) who believes the Oklahoma City bombing was a conspiracy conducted by the Clinton admin to give an excuse to wage war on militia groups. So this 9/11 claim does not surprise me.

I have heard that theory before (and similar ones that Bush staged 9/11 in order to either impose martial law here or to stage a land grab in the middle east). What always astonishes me when I hear people say things like that is the cavalier way that they can accuse someone of being complicit in such an atrocious act based on the flimsiest of evidence.

I don't like Bush, I know a lot of people did not like Clinton, but there is a world of difference between being a bad president and killing thousands of your own countrymen for (relatively minor) political gain. If I were to accuse someone of that, I'd have to see some d@mn solid evidence first, not the flimsy little wisps of info that these people seem to base their conclusions on. It's just appalling.

[kookbreaker]

That's right, the temperatures were not hot enough to melt steel. Didn't need to, steel loses a lot of structural strength when it gets hot way before it melts. Steel is amazing, but it is not magic.

(I actually had a conspiracy nutter curse me out for posting this little graphic once)

[The idea]

Originally posted by Dorian Gray
Sample:
quote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The twin towers could not have collapsed as a result of burning jet fuel. Most of that fuel was consumed on impact.

I don't really understand that. If you poison someone using less than half of a bottle of poison, then are you automatically innocent of murder?

Originally posted by Dorian Gray
[B]Sample:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The Twin Towers did not fall because of plane impacts or fires.
Well duh!! We already know that when the impacts occurred God took the opportunity to intervene to punish America for its sins.

[Evolver]

I guess this guy didn't watch the episode of Nova that explained why the fires made the buildings fall.

[BTox]

Originally posted by Chaos


"wage war on militia groups"?

Did they do that? This is the first thing I hear about that.

No, of course not. I guess these nuts thought it was going to happen, though.

[BTox]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep

I don't like Bush, I know a lot of people did not like Clinton, but there is a world of difference between being a bad president and killing thousands of your own countrymen for (relatively minor) political gain. If I were to accuse someone of that, I'd have to see some d@mn solid evidence first, not the flimsy little wisps of info that these people seem to base their conclusions on. It's just appalling.

I was no fan of Clinton but not for one second would I think that he or any other president would intentionally kill citizens for any such reason. Sheer lunacy.

[fishbob]

I know a kook (my neighbor) who believes the Oklahoma City bombing was a conspiracy conducted by the Clinton admin to give an excuse to wage war on militia groups. Claims of persecution seem to be common among the militia groups I have heard of. Fake paranoia must be a useful recruiting tool.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by BTox


I was no fan of Clinton but not for one second would I think that he or any other president would intentionally kill citizens for any such reason. Sheer lunacy.

Same with me and Bush. Something like that is a horrendeous thing to accuse someone of and I wouldn't accuse ANYONE of such a thing unless the evidence was close to being undeniable.

Alas neither the right nor the left have a monopoly on nutcases. So there are plentyof people willing to beleive both.

[Eos of the Eons]

Wonder how he got a publisher? Wonder if anyone buys that stupid book?

Wonder how the guy got so paranoid?


How many nutcases does it take to put pages on a site?

Mostly this Serendipity website is a libertarian, anti-fascist, anti-war, anti-Zionist and anti-prison-planet website, asserting the natural right of people everywhere to pursue their lives, interests and pleasures free from harmful childhood conditioning, from exploitation and domination by covert political and economic forces which seek to enslave them and from repressive authoritarian governments, rapacious capitalist corporations, mendacious religious organizations, fraudulent international bankers and the unholy alliance among all of these which works to deprive the common people of all countries of their freedom, health, happiness and the full realization of their spiritual potential.


God is in you and acts in and through you. Your only obligation is to become aware of this, to free yourself from subservience to authority and to become as far as possible a channel for this divine love-intelligence-energy in its creative expression.
http://www.serendipity.li

Apparently, too many.

[Dorian Gray]

There is a neat little forum over at www.atlantisrising.com where people believe all kinds of crap. www.rense.com too. It hurts my eyes to read some of it.

[kookbreaker]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
[B]Wonder how he got a publisher? Wonder if anyone buys that stupid book?


Anyone can get published, epsecially if they publish the junk themselves with a vanity press. At least two total USENET whackjob kooks have published 'books'.

[Chaos]

Conspiracy theory nutjob books are very popular.

I´ve bough one myself some time ago, just for the "fun" of it, by former German Secretary of Science Andreas von Bülow.

Thinking of that, isn´t the idea tempting to write a totally made-up conspiracy book (or set up a web-site) and find out how many people you could get to believe you?

On the other hand, you´d probably never get that genie back into the bottle...

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally posted by Chaos
Conspiracy theory nutjob books are very popular.

I´ve bough one myself some time ago, just for the "fun" of it, by former German Secretary of Science Andreas von Bülow.

Thinking of that, isn´t the idea tempting to write a totally made-up conspiracy book (or set up a web-site) and find out how many people you could get to believe you?

On the other hand, you´d probably never get that genie back into the bottle...


For sure. I have to keep myself from trying to aggravate folks on forums like the ones Dorian Gray posted. It's fun, but really pointless and a waste of time...but it's fun, argh (will not go there! will not!)

I emailed the graph to the guy. He asked me to extrapolate. I just emailed back the point about the steel. He emailed me back asking where I got the graph. I think I'm pushing buttons, so will leave him alone. I really don't want to lead him here.