New Opposition Leader in Australia - Emissions Trading Scheme to be voted down

[lionking]

I know Australian politics is not huge here, and I would not normally start a thread about it, but the immediate consequence of this is that the Senate, where the Opposition and independents have the balance of power, will now vote down the carbon trading scheme. As a G20 country and 13th largest contributor to emissions, this is significant.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbott-wins-threeway-fight-for-the-liberal-leadership-20091130-k18h.html?autostart=1

Will this lead to other countries re-assessing their positions of carbon trading and other emissions schemes?

[The Fool]

I know Australian politics is not huge here, and I would not normally start a thread about it, but the immediate consequence of this is that the Senate, where the Opposition and independents have the balance of power, will now vote down the carbon trading scheme. As a G20 country and 13th largest contributor to emissions, this is significant.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbott-wins-threeway-fight-for-the-liberal-leadership-20091130-k18h.html?autostart=1

Will this lead to other countries re-assessing their positions of carbon trading and other emissions schemes?
so whats new? The Catholic Taliban (Tony Abbott) has taken the leadership of the remnants of the collapsed right wing party and the cost of achieving this was to give the parties global warming deniers what they wanted.

wake me up in 3 or 4 years and we'll see if the right wing of australian politics has climbed back out of the hole.

[the_eye]

I predict a landslide victory for Labor in the next election. Tony Abbot is even less popular then Malcolm Turnball.

[Alan]

Tony Abbott doesn't seem Prime Ministerial giving this current speech. He's far too excited/nervous. I think it will affect his popularity polls negatively and chances of being elected if he continues like this.

[lionking]

A lot depends on how things are spun. I'm certain that the official position will be that the libs are not against emissions reductions, but that the CPRS was deeply flawed (and there's some truth in this) and that a new scheme will be put forward by the libs post-Copenhagen.

And remember that Howard was also "un-electable" when he took over as Opposition leader, and Rudd hardly generated dancing in the streets when he took over.

[gtc]

I think Joe Hockey as leader and Abbot as deputy would have worked out better.

With Joe as the nice guy and Abbot as the attack dog. Sort of like Ruddkipz and Gillard.

[lionking]

I think Joe Hockey as leader and Abbot as deputy would have worked out better.



I was going to say that two such egos would not work, but Hawke and Keating sort of contradicts that.

[The Atheist]

I know Australian politics is not huge here, and I would not normally start a thread about it, but the immediate consequence of this is that the Senate, where the Opposition and independents have the balance of power, will now vote down the carbon trading scheme. As a G20 country and 13th largest contributor to emissions, this is significant.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbott-wins-threeway-fight-for-the-liberal-leadership-20091130-k18h.html?autostart=1

Will this lead to other countries re-assessing their positions of carbon trading and other emissions schemes?

More than likely.

It certainly won't do Aussie any harm in the short term - unless another 400,000 Kiwis moving there is harmful. (I'd say helpful, they might even teach you lot how to speak proper)

It's going down well in NZ, especially counterpointing the NZ Parliament pushing the same bill through this week and adding to our tax burden.

Given that denial seems to be a lot more popular than acceptance, it's going to prove pretty popular with the voters as well.

so whats new? The Catholic Taliban (Tony Abbott) has taken the leadership of the remnants of the collapsed right wing party and the cost of achieving this was to give the parties global warming deniers what they wanted.

wake me up in 3 or 4 years and we'll see if the right wing of australian politics has climbed back out of the hole.

Ah, it's lovely to sit back and compare PMs with you guys.

I'm no John Key fan, but between Abbott and Rudd, you must have the least inspiring pollies on the planet; they make Key look like a white Obama!

WTF is with Aussie having such pussy PMs all of a sudden? Jeating, Hawke and a few of your previous blokes were real battlers.

[The Fool]

I was going to say that two such egos would not work, but Hawke and Keating sort of contradicts that.
Got no time for Abbott, he's a bit strange. Hockey is a nice guy....trouble is he is not a good administrator. Already demoted once and described as having "problems with attention to detail" which means he cocks stuff up fairly regularly. Interesting story I heard was that he walked the Kokoda track with our PM Kevin rudd (before he was PM) and apparently pulled him out of a fast flowing river, this was described as "saving his life" by the press.....may have been less spectacular in real life but can you imagine Obama pulling bush out of a fast flowing river? The story hardly made the mainstream press here.

Another interesting story is that during their university days Abbott and Hockey got into a fist fight in a Rugby game....little skinny abbott aparently soundly belted big Joe Hockey due to previous boxing training.

The joys of Australian politics....

and lastly, and most sadly.....with the exit of Peter costello there is now no posibility of a run off between "Abbott and Costello" for the Party leadership. What an oportunity missed.

[lionking]

and lastly, and most sadly.....with the exit of Peter costello there is now no posibility of a run off between "Abbott and Costello" for the Party leadership. What an oportunity missed.

No but there's a Bishop and an Abbott on the front bench.

[Wildy]

...and Rudd hardly generated dancing in the streets when he took over.

Unless you believe The Herd.


In reality Rudd only got elected because Howard screwed up. He didn't give a consistent answer to when he would retire. Many people didn't really like playing a game of roulette where Howard might leave mid term and then we'd see Costello as the PM.

That and Workchoices.

[the_eye]

WTF is with Aussie having such pussy PMs all of a sudden?

Don't let Kevin Rudd's appearance fool you, he's as strong as steel and more cunning then a swamp rat.

No offense, but as citizen of another country whose entire defense strategy is to hide behind Australia, it's hypocritical too call anyone a pussy.

Keating, Hawke and a few of your previous blokes were real battlers.

How were they "Battlers?" They were both pretty Rich.

[lionking]

Don't let Kevin Rudd's appearance fool you, he's as strong as steel and more cunning then a swamp rat.

No offense, but as citizen of another country whose entire defense strategy is to hide behind Australia, it's hypocritical too call anyone a pussy.



How were they "Battlers?" They were both pretty Rich.
A small hint the eye. The Atheist is almost without peer when it comes to stirring the proverbial. Take what he says with a modicum of salt, return serve just as hard and enjoy the ride. ;)

[Damien Evans]

Right then, I'm voting for Labor next election.

[Tricky]

As a Yank who knows nothing (at least until now) about Australian politics, I just want to say thanks to you blokes for keeping us informed in ways that the newpapers never do.

[Darth Rotor]

As a Yank who knows nothing (at least until now) about Australian politics, I just want to say thanks to you blokes for keeping us informed in ways that the newpapers never do.
I am still thanking Australia for Elle McPhereson. :)

[a_unique_person]

Abbot and the liberals are ensuring they could get a ETS scheme that is better than the emasculated result we have now. By voting down the ETS they give the trigger for a Double Dissolution, which Labor is certain to win in a landslide. The elevation of Abbot to opposition leader by a one vote margin is something they could only have dreamed about. The timing of the spill was interesting too. Fran Bailey, a Turnbull backer and probable supporter of an ETS are the disaster of the fires through her electorate, was ill and was not given a proxy vote. Two new members who can't vote till next week would also be Turnbull backers. The inherent instability and mistrust is only going to get worse.

Worse still, they will be many liberals wondering if they can keep their seats at the next election. The ETS is favoured by the majority of Australians, and Abbot is their least preferred alternative PM. If they want to keep their seats, something will have to give.

Add to that the treachery of the conservatives. They were pushing for Hockey as the alternative to Turnbull, and said Abbot was only running so that a spill could be forced. In the first round of voting, Hockey got the least votes of the three.

This will play out for years to come. The only problem is that Labor could get it too easy and go the way of NSW labor, with self interest the dominating force after a while, as actually having to answer to the constituency won't be necessary to win.

[lionking]

I can't imagine Labor going to a Double Dissolution. Sure, this will allow them to get the ETS through, but they will not control the senate and they know it. A Double Dissolution election, with all senate seats up for grabs and not just half, will result in a heap of single issue Independents. Dealing with six or seven Xenophons and Fieldings is something Labor will avoid like the plague.

I'd also like a dollar for all the times I've heard "that's the end of Labor/the Coalition for the next 10 years". Electorates have very, very short memories and can be swayed by one issue.

[a_unique_person]

I can't imagine Labor going to a Double Dissolution. Sure, this will allow them to get the ETS through, but they will not control the senate and they know it. A Double Dissolution election, with all senate seats up for grabs and not just half, will result in a heap of single issue Independents. Dealing with six or seven Xenophons and Fieldings is something Labor will avoid like the plague.

I'd also like a dollar for all the times I've heard "that's the end of Labor/the Coalition for the next 10 years". Electorates have very, very short memories and can be swayed by one issue.

They can be, if they have someone to vote for. The Liberal Party is doing it's best to make sure they are offering up their worst candidate, not their best.

[The Atheist]

Don't let Kevin Rudd's appearance fool you, he's as strong as steel and more cunning then a swamp rat.
Nothing to do with his apeparance.

He doesn't look any worse of a wimp than Key.

What makes him a pussy is the Marist Bros high school, the arts degrees and memebership of things like the Australian Student Christian Movement.

Cunning and political steel just don't register.

No offense, but as citizen of another country whose entire defense strategy is to hide behind Australia, it's hypocritical too call anyone a pussy.

:dl:

Coming from a citizen of a country whose entire defence strategy is to ride America's coat-tails at all costs (refer Rudd and his position on Iraq/USA) that is ironically funny.

Well, if you were right, it would be ironic but you're demonstrably wrong, which makes it funnier, if less ironic.

NZ doesn't have a defence policy, let alone one of hiding behind Australia.

Just the minutest search of the history of NZ politics in the late 20th century would enable you to realise that far from hiding behind anyone, NZ has stood up to all comers, most particularly the sole superpower, USA.

[tip: "to" and "too" have completely different uses]

How were they "Battlers?" They were both pretty Rich.

What does money have to do with it? A battler is someone who battles against odds. Rudd hasn't had the chance to do that yet - maybe he'll surprise me.

A small hint the eye. The Atheist is almost without peer when it comes to stirring the proverbial. Take what he says with a modicum of salt, return serve just as hard and enjoy the ride. ;)

What is this "almost" crap?

Electorates have very, very short memories and can be swayed by one issue.

What's the prevailing Aussie opinion on AGW?

I'd expect it to be similar to ours where the majority of the public don't want to be hit in the pocket, so hate the idea and will cleave to denialism like the proverbial brown stuff to a blanket.

Do you think it's an issue which Rudd would try to make a serious election issue?

I agree that any dissolution is extremely unlikely.

[lionking]

What's the prevailing Aussie opinion on AGW?

I'd expect it to be similar to ours where the majority of the public don't want to be hit in the pocket, so hate the idea and will cleave to denialism like the proverbial brown stuff to a blanket.

Do you think it's an issue which Rudd would try to make a serious election issue?

I agree that any dissolution is extremely unlikely.

Opinion polls show most Australians support it, but when you dig deeper most have no idea of how it will work in general, let alone the detail. It's been sold to the public with the message "we have no choice, it will be good for you, bend over and cop this".

I think if an election concentrated on the ETS alone, it might not be the absolute winner for Labor many believe. In addition, boats with illegal immigrants are arriving on a weekly basis - a winning issue for the Coalition.

Labor will win the next election, whenever it is, but I'm far from certain it will be the landslide many predict.

[INRM]

I'm glad they voted down the Emissions Trading Scheme. Especially with all this data from East Anglia and New Zealand exposed as fraudulent.


INRM

[The Atheist]

I think if an election concentrated on the ETS alone, it might not be the absolute winner for Labor many believe. In addition, boats with illegal immigrants are arriving on a weekly basis - a winning issue for the Coalition.

Yes, always a popular one!

I'm glad they voted down the Emissions Trading Scheme. Especially with all this data from East Anglia and New Zealand exposed as fraudulent.


INRM

Nothing has been "voted down".

The data from NZ has not been "exposed as fraudulent".

If you can't be bothered checking facts, don't bother entering the discussion.

[The Fool]

I'm glad they voted down the Emissions Trading Scheme. Especially with all this data from East Anglia and New Zealand exposed as fraudulent.


INRMbut I think we already have threads dedecated to people who like to make stuff up on the issue of Global warming. Please piss off and use those threads..

[The Atheist]

:dl:

That is pretty well said.

[lionking]

Another correct prediction about no double dissolution. Labor will re-introduce the legislation next year.

And to those who may think Labor will get a senate majority, predictions in the papers today show the Greens having the balance of power alone (although personally I think there will be more independents to muddy the water). They will only accept an ETS which will cripple business and power generation, which aligns pretty well with their agenda. Labor will not cave in to Greens demands. Apart from anything else, every union will desert the party.

And while I'm on about the Greens, they were very quick to describe the Coalition as science-denying trogolites, while at the same time refusing to even discuss the possibility of nuclear energy. Heaven help us all if they ever get real power.

[The Fool]

Another correct prediction about no double dissolution. Labor will re-introduce the legislation next year.

And to those who may think Labor will get a senate majority, predictions in the papers today show the Greens having the balance of power alone (although personally I think there will be more independents to muddy the water). They will only accept an ETS which will cripple business and power generation, which aligns pretty well with their agenda. Labor will not cave in to Greens demands. Apart from anything else, every union will desert the party.

And while I'm on about the Greens, they were very quick to describe the Coalition as science-denying trogolites, while at the same time refusing to even discuss the possibility of nuclear energy. Heaven help us all if they ever get real power.
there is something aboput the words "greens" and "ballance of power" appearing in the same sentance that makes me feel uneasy. Lets hope the shooters party or some other special interest group can take over the defacto ruling of the nation first...If we are going to have our government controlled by a handfull of 1 issue amateur politicians at least lets have ones with great big guns rather than koala kissers.

[Wildy]

NZ doesn't have a defence policy, let alone one of hiding behind Australia.

We know:

vo6fgZ-dbOw

:)

And to those who may think Labor will get a senate majority, predictions in the papers today show the Greens having the balance of power alone (although personally I think there will be more independents to muddy the water).

Personally I think that Xenophon will get back in. I don't think he'll get a second seat though.

They will only accept an ETS which will cripple business and power generation, which aligns pretty well with their agenda. Labor will not cave in to Greens demands. Apart from anything else, every union will desert the party.

And while I'm on about the Greens, they were very quick to describe the Coalition as science-denying trogolites, while at the same time refusing to even discuss the possibility of nuclear energy. Heaven help us all if they ever get real power.

The Greens are, in my opinion, endemic of the 'green' movement. They've got big ideas but they aren't viable ideas in the real world.

Their stance on nuclear power is a perfect example of this. Renewable energy sources, while environmentally friendly, are not at the level to meet demand. Nuclear power is far cleaner then coal and gas, but groups like the Greens see the words "nuclear power" and think "Chernobyl".

[lionking]

Off topic, but it's my thread, so bugger it. NSW has thrown out the sitting Premier, Nathan Rees and now has it's first female Premier, Kristina Keneally, as well as a female Deputy.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/979053/keneally-set-to-become-nsw-premier

Not bad for the blokey NSW Labor Party, the home of the "maaaates".

[Ausmerican]

Hey Atheist mate? If we want to learn to talk like we have a bad South African accent we'll just rent Lethal Weapon 2 again so to put it in Kiwi, 'thinx but no thinx' for the offer to teach us to talk proper.

[The Atheist]

We know:

That's brilliant!

The Greens are, in my opinion, endemic of the 'green' movement. They've got big ideas but they aren't viable ideas in the real world.

Their stance on nuclear power is a perfect example of this. Renewable energy sources, while environmentally friendly, are not at the level to meet demand. Nuclear power is far cleaner then coal and gas, but groups like the Greens see the words "nuclear power" and think "Chernobyl".

Your Greens are the same as our Greens - absolute frauds.

No doubt that's why we have an Aussie Kant in charge (jointly, of course) of NZ Greens.

Hey Atheist mate? If we want to learn to talk like we have a bad South African accent we'll just rent Lethal Weapon 2 again so to put it in Kiwi, 'thinx but no thinx' for the offer to teach us to talk proper.

We already talk more properer than youse. (http://travel.msn.co.nz/destinations/newzealand/874995/brits-prefer-a-kiwi-accent-to-the-queens)

[The Fool]

[QUOTE=lionking;5371258]Off topic, but it's my thread, so bugger it. NSW has thrown out the sitting Premier, Nathan Rees and now has it's first female Premier, Kristina Keneally, as well as a female Deputy.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/979053/keneally-set-to-become-nsw-premier

She rings Tripodi and Obeid every morning to find out what her original Ideas are for today.

what an efing joke. Talk about rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Just about all whatshisname from the libs has to do to win the next election is not have a heart attack.

and while I'm in a ranting mood. I cannot stand listening to my leaders speak to me with an american accent. It makes me feel like an extra in some sci fi moovie about the post apocalyptic world...

I know its just bigotry but .......an american running the state? Watch out New Zealand, we know you have weapons of mass destruction.

[lionking]

[quote=lionking;5371258]Off topic, but it's my thread, so bugger it. NSW has thrown out the sitting Premier, Nathan Rees and now has it's first female Premier, Kristina Keneally, as well as a female Deputy.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/979053/keneally-set-to-become-nsw-premier

She rings Tripodi and Obeid every morning to find out what her original Ideas are for today.

what an efing joke. Talk about rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Just about all whatshisname from the libs has to do to win the next election is not have a heart attack.

and while I'm in a ranting mood. I cannot stand listening to my leaders speak to me with an american accent. It makes me feel like an extra in some sci fi moovie about the post apocalyptic world...

I know its just bigotry but .......an american running the state? Watch out New Zealand, we know you have weapons of mass destruction.

I agree with you, but get used to Labor winning again. Do you really think O'Farrell is electable?

[The Atheist]

and while I'm in a ranting mood. I cannot stand listening to my leaders speak to me with an american accent. It makes me feel like an extra in some sci fi moovie about the post apocalyptic world...

It's everywhere.

I executed a teacher last week for talking about "A to Zee" to her kids.

Watch out New Zealand, we know you have weapons of mass destruction.

Haha! We're over all that.

Barack and John are pals. Barack spent 30% more time with John than Kevin at APEC. And Michelle and Bronagh exchanged pleasantries!

[The Fool]

I agree with you, but get used to Labor winning again. Do you really think O'Farrell is electable?
O'Farrell? Who's he?


hang on I googled and thats apparently whatshisname's name ......the leader of the liberal party. Sorry for appearing to be uninformed but the guys only plan has been to not be seen.

as for being unelectable? I don't think there is such a thing as unelectable....anything animal vegetable or mineral can get elected... Just look back in history at some of the elected pollies we have had.


Defeating a talentless puppet of the Italian and lebenase branch stacking mafia may be a stretch for whatshisname but as long as The liberal party election people manage to stop him from actually saying or doing anything during the campaign he should get up.

I read today the editorial from the Sydney morning Herald which openly called on the Labor party to resign and call an election because they had descended into a farce. Thats pretty heavy stuff. I have not seen that before.

[lionking]

You may well be right (hey, don't fall of the chair :D).

I read something in the sydney-centric Australian magazine which concluded that Sydney has fallen well behind both Melbourne and Brisbane by any objective measure. Quite an achievement by Labor after the heights of the 2000 Olympics. One of the key factors in Sydney's demise was Carr's pronouncement "Sydney is full" and the lack of infrastructure that followed it.

The author of the article reported that a '50's, unrenovated two bedroom house on a 300 sq mtr block near him in inner western Sydney sold last week for $1.4 million, when it would have fetched $300,000 a few years ago. He reported this with sadness. How on earth can anyone afford to live in that place?

And, for the record, I was born and raised in Sydney.

[gtc]

It looks like the Liberals comfortably retained (http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2009/byelections/bradfield_result.htm) both seats in the by-elections today. The Greens didn't do nearly as well as some thought they woul, even though they were helped by the Labor party not standing.

I wonder what the Christian Democrats were thinking running 9 candidates in Bradfield? They apparently had wanted to run 11 (the number of Apostles minus Judas) but they've all lost their deposit. Weird shenanigans.

[a_unique_person]

It looks like the Liberals comfortably retained (http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2009/byelections/bradfield_result.htm) both seats in the by-elections today.

As they were two of the safest seats the liberals have, i doubt anyone expected anything different.

[lionking]

It looks like the Liberals comfortably retained (http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2009/byelections/bradfield_result.htm) both seats in the by-elections today. The Greens didn't do nearly as well as some thought they woul, even though they were helped by the Labor party not standing.

I wonder what the Christian Democrats were thinking running 9 candidates in Bradfield? They apparently had wanted to run 11 (the number of Apostles minus Judas) but they've all lost their deposit. Weird shenanigans.
I expected the Greens to do well in Higgins in effectively a two horse race. Imagine how they would have gone if their candidate didn't live in Canberra and had the slightest clue about local issues? The Greens are the losers in this electorate in my opinion.

[gtc]

Malcolm Mackerras (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/mackerras-predicts-boilover-in-higgins/story-e6frgczf-1225806355860) thought the Greens would win Higgins. There was a lot of hyperbole from Greens' supporters.

I expected the Greens to do well in Higgins in effectively a two horse race. Imagine how they would have gone if their candidate didn't live in Canberra and had the slightest clue about local issues? The Greens are the losers in this electorate in my opinion.

Helicoptering in a 'high profile' candidate with no idea of the local issues seems certain to rub people up the wrong way. I'm sure they could have found someone with a reasonable profile who actually lives in Melbourne.

[The Fool]

Malcolm Mackerras (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/mackerras-predicts-boilover-in-higgins/story-e6frgczf-1225806355860) thought the Greens would win Higgins. There was a lot of hyperbole from Greens' supporters.



Helicoptering in a 'high profile' candidate with no idea of the local issues seems certain to rub people up the wrong way. I'm sure they could have found someone with a reasonable profile who actually lives in Melbourne.
problem is if you get someone who actually lives in melbourne then you get all the associated personality disorder issues :)

[gtc]

Too true.

[Hallo Alfie]

problem is if you get someone who actually lives in melbourne then you get all the associated personality disorder issues :)

Hey!:mad:




:D:cool:

[Ausmerican]

We already talk more properer than youse. (http://travel.msn.co.nz/destinations/newzealand/874995/brits-prefer-a-kiwi-accent-to-the-queens)

You are using the fact that POMS like the way you talk better as an indicator??
Seriously?
The correct way to look at that is poll upside down,..... much like the world map.

On topic though mate, although I haven't lived in Oz for a bit over a decade I seem tlo remember that, except in cases of strong personalities (Hawke FI), both parties are prone to changing leaders more often than shirts between elections.

[Hallo Alfie]

On topic though mate, although I haven't lived in Oz for a bit over a decade I seem tlo remember that, except in cases of strong personalities (Hawke FI), both parties are prone to changing leaders more often than shirts between elections.

Exactly, it wasn't that long ago that Labour was in total disarray: Beazley (who I liked), then Latham (who was.. well, I struggle to find the words) and finally Rudd (who I don't trust); but they have settled ok.

Things change in poilitics rapidly, a week is a long time: two years is a lifetime. When one has been around long enough you start to see the cylcic nature in it all.

[gtc]

Oh no, they broke Clive Hamilton (http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2765351.htm):


Hi there,

There's something you need to know about your father.

Your dad's job is to try to stop the government making laws to reduce Australia's carbon pollution. He is paid a lot of money to do that by big companies who do not want to own up to the fact that their pollution is changing the world's climate in very harmful ways.

Because of their pollution, lots of people, mostly poor people, are likely to die.

[lionking]

Malcolm Mackerras (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/mackerras-predicts-boilover-in-higgins/story-e6frgczf-1225806355860) thought the Greens would win Higgins. There was a lot of hyperbole from Greens' supporters.



Helicoptering in a 'high profile' candidate with no idea of the local issues seems certain to rub people up the wrong way. I'm sure they could have found someone with a reasonable profile who actually lives in Melbourne.


Here's an example of Clive Hamilton's rhetoric:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/hey-preacher-leave-those-kids-alone/story-e6frg6zo-1225808806080


There's something you need to know about your father. Your dad's job is to try to stop the government making laws to reduce Australia's carbon pollution. He is paid a lot of money to do that by big companies who do not want to own up to the fact that their pollution is changing the world's climate in very harmful ways.Why not sit your dad down and have a good talk to him. Tell him you want him to stop helping the big companies that are spoiling the future for you and all the other kids at school. Tell him that the family would rather have less money if he had a different job, one you could be proud of. Your dad has lost his way, and you might be the only person in the world who can help him find it again.


The Australian Greens are scum.

[lionking]

Jeez sorry GTC, I posted before reading the whole thread. My bad.

[Damien Evans]

I agree with you, but get used to Labor winning again. Do you really think O'Farrell is electable?

What, and you think Keneally is?

[Damien Evans]

problem is if you get someone who actually lives in melbourne then you get all the associated personality disorder issues :)

Being awesome isn't a disorder.

[lionking]

A very thoughtful article by ex-Labor Minister Barry Cohen:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/abbott-taps-into-a-climate-of-confusion/story-e6frg6zo-1225812552415


Much has been made of Abbott's Catholic background and his conservative views on several social issues: abortion, contraception, euthanasia and gay marriage, to name a few. The sisterhood can barely hide their loathing of Abbott and at the mere mention of his name they start frothing at the mouth. On most of these issues I disagree with Abbott, and I am far from being alone, but providing he announces that on issues of this nature he will allow his members a free vote they will cease to be issues. Labor remains hot favourite to win the next election, but if the party underestimates Abbott it will do so at its peril. He is a veteran politician and far shrewder than his recent predecessors. Labor beware!


Couldn't agree more. Abbott will give the government a scare next election I think.