Whats the allure of lifelong virginity?

[Cainkane1]

Thirtyone years ago I briefly dated a woman who told me up front she wasn't going to do sex. She was thirty years old. Her conversation turned to jesus and such when I of course abruptly stopped calling her. I'm not a pervert or a lover boy by any description but being with a prude isn't my forte either. I'll do lunch with a lady like her but I will not spend time on weekends with her.

I looked her up out of curiousity and she is married and divorced with no children. What is the allure of celibacy possibly even when married for your entire life. I'm also intrigued as to why she even wanted to date a man.

[Cavemonster]

Everybody has their own unique libido. Some people physically don't want sex with another person. Some people do but have been shamed against it by religion or parents or culture. Some people get a sexual thrill out of denying themselves a sexual thrill.

There are a great number of reasons, our brains are fascinating weird blobs. It's impossible to know which reasons motivated her though.

[Beerina]

The allure is, apparently, pleasing a mentally unstable, sexually repressed god.

[Ryokan]

There are people who are completely asexual. It's a small minority, but they're struggling to get recognition for their brand of sexuality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual#Community

I don't see the problem with it, it's their choice. There's more to life than sex.

[Cainkane1]

There are people who are completely asexual. It's a small minority, but they're struggling to get recognition for their brand of sexuality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual#Community

I don't see the problem with it, it's their choice. There's more to life than sex.
So why date a man with a normal sex drive? Why didn't she seek out a fellow celibat and go with him? better still live alone.

[GStan]

<snip>

I don't see the problem with it, it's their choice. There's more to life than sex.

He's right. There's porn too.

[HansMustermann]

There's more to life than playing the tuba at 2AM in a condominium too, but I wouldn't exclude it from the start ;)

There seems to me like a difference between not having X as one's primary interest, and deciding up front that you're never going to do it. She's that sure that no possible Mr or Mrs Right can possibly ever turn her on, or what?

[KingMerv00]

So why date a man with a normal sex drive? Why didn't she seek out a fellow celibat and go with him? better still live alone.

Because one can enjoy companionship without sex.

[Ryokan]

So why date a man with a normal sex drive? Why didn't she seek out a fellow celibat and go with him? better still live alone.

They fall in love and don't want to be alone just like everyone else.

And finding an asexual partner might not be easy, there's not that many of them.

[ponderingturtle]

Thirtyone years ago I briefly dated a woman who told me up front she wasn't going to do sex. She was thirty years old. Her conversation turned to jesus and such when I of course abruptly stopped calling her. I'm not a pervert or a lover boy by any description but being with a prude isn't my forte either. I'll do lunch with a lady like her but I will not spend time on weekends with her.

I looked her up out of curiousity and she is married and divorced with no children. What is the allure of celibacy possibly even when married for your entire life. I'm also intrigued as to why she even wanted to date a man.

She might have been asexual, and had no sex drive. But even if you have no sex drive why wouldn't you want companionship? My relationship with my girlfriend is certianly in part because we like to do things together and spend time together even when not having sex.

[ponderingturtle]

So why date a man with a normal sex drive? Why didn't she seek out a fellow celibat and go with him? better still live alone.

There was likely not an asexual dating sceen 30 years ago. The internet has changed many things, as well as modern discussion about sex bringing recognition to asexuality.

[I Ratant]

... There's more to life than sex.
.
Sure is!
When the P-51 took off the runway at Van Nuys, with the Merlin bellowing away up there, I said to myself.... "Life is complete".

[Soapy Sam]

No allure. Some lifelong virgins just feel more comfortable that way. Others just never found someone they liked enough - or who liked them enough.
In short, could be choice, could be circumstances.
Like a lot of other stuff.

As to dating- there can be a lot of peer pressure to conform. Also, a person may want company and friendship without wanting sex. It's one reason many people keep dogs or cats; just having another living creature around seems to be a hard wired need for most humans. We can survive solitary confinement, but it's not much fun.

A lot of widows and widowers in their sixties or older remarry. It's possible , but unlikely that the principle driving force is unbridled lust.

[Donal]

What exactly did she say? She was never going to have sex? She was never going to have premarital sex? She was never going to have sex with you?

[JFrankA]

They fall in love and don't want to be alone just like everyone else.

And finding an asexual partner might not be easy, there's not that many of them.

I would think that it's just as easy to find nowadays as finding someone with the same sexual fetish one has.

[Cainkane1]

Because one can enjoy companionship without sex.
Is this really true if you are dating? Spending time with each other? Possible looking for a compatiable relationship leading to a satisfying marriage? If I had married her like some guy did I'd have been miserable as I bet he was. I don't know who divorced who but its my guess that her husband at least wanted to be intimate with his own wife.

[RenaissanceBiker]

Lifelong Virgin: "I'm celibate. I don't have sex."
RenaissanceBiker: "Do you mind if I do?"

[Cainkane1]

What exactly did she say? She was never going to have sex? She was never going to have premarital sex? She was never going to have sex with you?
She didn't say that if we got married we wouldn't be having sex however after three dates I decided that any time spent with her was a waste. She was deeply into her religion and I was a committed atheist. She soon ceased to interest me.

[Donal]

I know in Catholicism, it isn't a marriage until it is consummated between the man and the woman, but I don't know how it works with all Christians. I really am curious as to exactly what your stalkee said.

[Cainkane1]

What exactly did she say? She was never going to have sex? She was never going to have premarital sex? She was never going to have sex with you?
and as far as I recall she said " I've been dating men and "ahem" they wanted me to do things I didn't want to do".

[Donal]

That can be taken in a lot of ways.

[ponderingturtle]

I would think that it's just as easy to find nowadays as finding someone with the same sexual fetish one has.

I would think it all depends on how common the fetish or asexuality are. Or rather finding a partner that is OK with acting your fetishes out if you act their fetishes out, even if they are not the same.

Does a foot fetishist need to find another foot fetishist or just someone who is happy to let them lick their feet? Probably there are those who fall into both sides. Either way I think it all comes down to precentages if you need an asexual partner you limit yourself to something like .5% of the population with I think more asexual women than men. So you would need to know if the percent of partners who would meet the fetish needs would be comparable or not.

As Cainkane described it, it seems likely that she is not someone who would let a partner meet sexual needs outside of the relationship with her. I think this with being asexual would make finding a partner difficult.

[Cainkane1]

I know in Catholicism, it isn't a marriage until it is consummated between the man and the woman, but I don't know how it works with all Christians. I really am curious as to exactly what your stalkee said.
She didn't stalk me. I quit calling her and when she called me after three weeks of no contact I reluctantly told her we had nothing in common and we both needed what the other person didn't have. I hated to do it because she was really a decent lady. She lived about forty miles from my apartment and she also smoked. I'm asthmatic and I loath being around cigarette smoke.

[ponderingturtle]

Is this really true if you are dating? Spending time with each other? Possible looking for a compatiable relationship leading to a satisfying marriage? If I had married her like some guy did I'd have been miserable as I bet he was. I don't know who divorced who but its my guess that her husband at least wanted to be intimate with his own wife.

How does one find a someone to share their lives with other than dating?

As to being miserable, well there are men with little or not sex drive. It can also be a problem that one part of a marriage can lose their sex drive and never want to have sex again.

As she seems to be devoutely christian and tying this sexual decision to religion I doubt that she would let a partner meet their sexual needs outside of their relationship.

[ponderingturtle]

and as far as I recall she said " I've been dating men and "ahem" they wanted me to do things I didn't want to do".

That is not a very clear statement of the intent of life long virginity.

[Ryokan]

I would think that it's just as easy to find nowadays as finding someone with the same sexual fetish one has.

How about 31 years ago, per the OP?

[Cainkane1]

How about 31 years ago, per the OP?
Finding an asexual partnet in Atlanta Ga could not have been an easy chore. In 1978 Atlanta ga was filled to capacity with young men and women both who definitely weren't not into celebacy. Atlantas Piedmont park and the Peachtree strip was filled ith Hippy types form the haight Ashbury area of san Francisco. In those days if you didn't want to be celebate you sure didn't have to be.

[I Ratant]

That can be taken in a lot of ways.
.
And apparently she wasn't interested in any of them!

[Cainkane1]

That is not a very clear statement of the intent of life long virginity.
She may not have been a virgin but since she was a fundamentalist so its my guess she was. She may have had sex with the man she married but I'd bet money she didn't have sex until after the marriage ceremony. I'm divorced myself but I won't be contacting this lady.

[Donal]

.
And apparently she wasn't interested in any of them!

<rimshot>

[ponderingturtle]

She may not have been a virgin but since she was a fundamentalist so its my guess she was. She may have had sex with the man she married but I'd bet money she didn't have sex until after the marriage ceremony. I'm divorced myself but I won't be contacting this lady.

Fine, it sounds like you would not have been a good match, you are just making a lot of assumptions about what she ment that don't seem supported by what you say she said.

[Cainkane1]

Fine, it sounds like you would not have been a good match, you are just making a lot of assumptions about what she ment that don't seem supported by what you say she said.
I'd bet money she spent her entire thirty years in a sexless state. I couldn't read her mind of course but she made it clear no sex.

[plumjam]

What exactly did she say? She was never going to have sex? She was never going to have premarital sex? She was never going to have sex with you?

All three. Just after he smiled at her with a hunk of spinach in his teeth.

[rustypouch]

Whats the allure of lifelong virginity?

Purity of Essence.

[shawmutt]

Because one can enjoy companionship without sex.

I'm no one's cuddle bitch. Maybe when I'm 90 I'll enjoy "companionship" without sex.

[Rasmus]

I'd bet money she spent her entire thirty years in a sexless state. I couldn't read her mind of course but she made it clear no sex.

How so? What did she say that made this so clear?

The first quote you supplied did not support your interpretation.

(She might have tried to tell you that there would be no sex before marriage, or maybe her other dates wanted oral sex or some other practice she disapproved off.)

If she did indeed mean she was never going to have sex, she told you fairly early on - there is no reason to assume she would have been less open with the guy who eventually became her husband. He might well have known what he was getting into and simply approved.

[RSLancastr]

There's more to life than playing the tuba at 2AM in a condominium too, but I wouldn't exclude it from the start ;)"Playing the tuba?" Is that what the kids are calling it these days?

There seems to me like a difference between not having X as one's primary interest, and deciding up front that you're never going to do it. She's that sure that no possible Mr or Mrs Right can possibly ever turn her on, or what?[/QUOTE]

[ponderingturtle]

I'm no one's cuddle bitch. Maybe when I'm 90 I'll enjoy "companionship" without sex.

So you have made it clear to your wife if say she becomes incapable of sex you will be gone in a hot second?

[ponderingturtle]

"Playing the tuba?" Is that what the kids are calling it these days?


Better than a rusty trombone...

[shawmutt]

So you have made it clear to your wife if say she becomes incapable of sex you will be gone in a hot second?

Absolutely not. I'll just bang the maid.

[ponderingturtle]

Absolutely not. I'll just bang the maid.

Ah but then wouldn't you be your wifes cuddle bitch?

[Cainkane1]

How so? What did she say that made this so clear?

The first quote you supplied did not support your interpretation.

(She might have tried to tell you that there would be no sex before marriage, or maybe her other dates wanted oral sex or some other practice she disapproved off.)

If she did indeed mean she was never going to have sex, she told you fairly early on - there is no reason to assume she would have been less open with the guy who eventually became her husband. He might well have known what he was getting into and simply approved.
Her one and only husband is her husband no more. She said several things that led me to believe she wasn't going to have sex and that in fact she had had no sex as yet in her life. Her talk about Jesus and the will of god and such including the awful consequences of sin convinced me she was a virgin and planned to stay that way. I never said anything about marrying her and when it became obvious to me she was getting serious thoughts about our future I squelched these thoughts by ceasing to call her. We had only dated three times and since I didn't return her interest in me by expressing an interest in her I thought by not calling her the situation was over. After three weeks she called me asking what was wrong. Thats when I told her she needed to find someone who shared her religious views.

[Donal]

So, when will you be applying for the MDC? Because you seem to be reading this woman's mind.

[Rasmus]

Her one and only husband is her husband no more.

And of course the only possible reason for a couple to get a divorce is that one partner refuses to have sex with the other.

She said several things that led me to believe she wasn't going to have sex and that in fact she had had no sex as yet in her life.

So you keep saying. The one actual quote you provided was far from unambiguous, though.

Her talk about Jesus and the will of god and such including the awful consequences of sin convinced me she was a virgin and planned to stay that way.

That, too, is far from being the only possible, let alone a likely interpretation. As far as I am aware, most varieties of Christianity have a lot to say against premarital sex but do not have the same views on sex once someone is married.

I never said anything about marrying her and when it became obvious to me she was getting serious thoughts about our future I squelched these thoughts by ceasing to call her. We had only dated three times and since I didn't return her interest in me by expressing an interest in her I thought by not calling her the situation was over. After three weeks she called me asking what was wrong. Thats when I told her she needed to find someone who shared her religious views.

I don't doubt any of that, and nobody here will blame you for not perusing a relationship that you felt would not work.

It just seems to me that your interpretation is not justified from what you have been telling us. At the very least, everything you say would also allow one to assume that she wasn't going to have sex before getting married.

[Cainkane1]

Youd have to know her. Three dates was enough to let me know she would be a virgin at least until she married. I had a mental picture of her with her husband praying that hed hurry up.

[fuelair]

Whats the allure of lifelong virginity?




Lifelong fear of sex and/or humanophobia!!

[Skeptic]

there's more to life than playing the tuba at 2am in a condominium too...

naked!

[Redtail]

What is the allure of celibacy possibly even when married for your entire life. More time to masturbate.

[JFrankA]

What is the allure of celibacy

Knowing for a fact that you have no children. :)

[Rasmus]

Youd have to know her.

No, she would have had to explicetly say what her plans were for you to be able to ascribe those plans to her.

Three dates was enough to let me know she would be a virgin at least until she married.

Again, unless she explicitly said so there is no reason to assume that you were right in your assessment. (And, yes, I have met a few Christian women where I would have made the same assumptioon - but it would still have been an assumption, and a pretty baseless one at that.)

Of course, claiming that someone was going to be a virgin until marriage is something entirely different than claiming they would remain a virgin forever even if married.

I had a mental picture of her with her husband praying that hed hurry up.

I have to agree with Donal: The MDC is this way (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html).

You have shoved her into a pigeon hole - and that's fair enough. However, you have no justification for insisting that she does actually fit the hole.

And now, a couple of decades later, you even suggest that you know the intimate details about her life, as if the fact that she was married once without children was very meaningful and as if it was impossible for people to change even in the slightest over the course of 30 years.

[king catfish]

How about 31 years ago, per the OP?

Your finger is STILL in the trigger guard. You should be embarrassed.

Absolutely not. I'll just bang the maid.

Heh, I got a kick out of that.

[Ryokan]

Your finger is STILL in the trigger guard. You should be embarrassed.

Maybe I'm about to shoot someone?

[king catfish]

Maybe I'm about to shoot someone?

Maybe you need a lesson in gun safety.

[shandyjan]

You just didnt float her boat. She wanted to be 'friends'

[Roboramma]

Your finger is STILL in the trigger guard. You should be embarrassed.

Does that have anything to do with the thread?

[Cainkane1]

You just didnt float her boat. She wanted to be 'friends'
She obviously didn't float my boat either. In those days I wasn't into platonic friendships.

[king catfish]

Does that have anything to do with the thread?

Insofar as it destroys his credibility, at least to me. Every time I see that stupid avatar it derails me from the subject at hand. I guess I'll just put him on ignore and be done with it.

[Praktik]

To be honest I've thought about this.

What would my life be like without a sex drive?

I think of all the things I could accomplish: write some books, dedicate my life to some cause or other, explore knowledge etc etc

Of course, this type of thinking occurred in times of intense sexual frustration - but I wonder if lacking a sex drive at all wouldn't increase my productivity..;)

And this is different from people with sex drives who decide to abstain, cause they're still suppressing it...

[Cainkane1]

To be honest I've thought about this.

What would my life be like without a sex drive?

I think of all the things I could accomplish: write some books, dedicate my life to some cause or other, explore knowledge etc etc

Of course, this type of thinking occurred in times of intense sexual frustration - but I wonder if lacking a sex drive at all wouldn't increase my productivity..;)

And this is different from people with sex drives who decide to abstain, cause they're still suppressing it...
Some people into magic feel that having pent up sexual desires aids them when they are casting spells. Wiccan women often embrace celibacy for this reason. Most of them of course usually abandon the idea eventually though. I also ran into this.

[eeyore1954]

It appears she did not want to have premarital sex because of religious views. In no way does that indicate she is interested or allured by lifelong virginity. You should appreciate the fact she was honest with you upfront.

[A.A. Alfie]

Whats the allure of lifelong virginity?

Never having to give a Breach of Rule 10 removed.

[Cainkane1]

It appears she did not want to have premarital sex because of religious views. In no way does that indicate she is interested or allured by lifelong virginity. You should appreciate the fact she was honest with you upfront.
I did appreciate her honesty. Hopefully when I quit calling her she understood.

[Eyeron]

Sometimes people have no choice in the matter so they embrace it.

[Donal]

I did appreciate her honesty. Hopefully when I quit calling her she understood.

Or you could have actually said it to her.

[Cainkane1]

Or you could have actually said it to her.
We didn't date but three times. In addition to her being a 30 year old virgin I disliked her cigarettes and she lived 40 miles from my apartment.

[Donal]

And this prevented the conversation how? She was calling you. All you had to do was pick up the phone one time and let her know.

[Cainkane1]

And this prevented the conversation how? She was calling you. All you had to do was pick up the phone one time and let her know.
You're right it would have been the decent thing to do.

[Rolfe]

Funny, I was thinking about the question in the OP.

The answer, is "not being dumped". Don't ever get in a romantic relationship with anyone, and you are guaranteed never to be dumped.

That was my thinking, but is seems as if even that bit didn't work out for Cainkane1's date.

Rolfe.

[ponderingturtle]

Funny, I was thinking about the question in the OP.

The answer, is "not being dumped". Don't ever get in a romantic relationship with anyone, and you are guaranteed never to be dumped.

That was my thinking, but is seems as if even that bit didn't work out for Cainkane1's date.

Rolfe.

The thing is that it is hard to say if she is really not interested in sex, or was just one of those no sex until marriage types.

Nothing he has attributed to her definitively shows her to be asexual. Oddly I was listening to an old episode of the Savage Lovecast thismorning and it has someone represnting the asexual comunity, making a point that there are asexual romantics, who are looking for non sexual romantic relationships and asexual aromantics, who are not looking for that kind of relationship.

Of course we can't be sure if the woman Cainkane talks about was asexual at all, or just the virgin on the wedding day type.

But I think I might have figured out her desire to not have sex ever, that way she will be certain to never sleep with Cainkane.;)

[sthomson]

What's the allure of PIV sex? (which is usually what unexamined straight people mean when they use the word "sex") It's messy. It can be painful. It can cause a pregnancy that is illegal or incredibly difficult to terminate. Depending on the partner, it can be really not all that much fun.

I am not a lifelong virgin by any means, but I dated my current spouse for nearly 5 years before we had PIV sex, and I don't regret that decision. We had a lot of sexy, "virgin" fun before we risked pregnancy, although I didn't consider myself a virgin because I don't subscribe to the heteronormative view that PIV sex is the only "real" kind of sex. PIV sex is not the only way of acheiving physical or emotional intimacy, although I dare say it is a biologically pleasing one for a lot of people.

I wonder if the OP missed out on lots of kinky Christian fun because he was a bit close-minded? :)

[Eyeron]

It's not illegal to terminate a pregnancy.

[sthomson]

It's not illegal to terminate a pregnancy.

That depends, doesn't it? You are assuming that this hypothetical pregnancy is occurring in the US and is hypothetically in the first trimester.

[Eyeron]

No, it doesn't depend unless you want a stupid semantic argument. There are no laws nor is there any legislation in America that makes it illegal to terminate a pregnancy/

And I don't do idiotic semantic bullfritters.

[ponderingturtle]

No, it doesn't depend un;less you want a stupid semantic argument. There are no laws nor is there any legislation in America that makes it illegal to terminate a pregnancy/

And I don't do idiotic semantic bullfritters.

Sure as long as you are willing to travel far enough that is.

[sthomson]

Eyeron, there is no need to insult me or my arguments. Here is a chart that summarizes abortion laws around the world. (http://www.pregnantpause.org/lex/world02.jsp) I cannot vouch for its accuracy and the source seems to be an anti-abortion website.

Note, specifically, what I said:It can cause a pregnancy that is illegal or incredibly difficult to terminate.

This is undeniably true. Depending on where and when the pregnancy occurs, and when it is detected, it can be either illegal or incredibly difficult to terminate. Perhaps I made an incorrect assumption that my readers are capable of thinking more globally than their own country of residence.

[Donal]

Well ,if we want a semantics argument: All pregnancies are terminated. It is just a matter of when and how.

[Cainkane1]

The thing is that it is hard to say if she is really not interested in sex, or was just one of those no sex until marriage types.

Nothing he has attributed to her definitively shows her to be asexual. Oddly I was listening to an old episode of the Savage Lovecast thismorning and it has someone represnting the asexual comunity, making a point that there are asexual romantics, who are looking for non sexual romantic relationships and asexual aromantics, who are not looking for that kind of relationship.

Of course we can't be sure if the woman Cainkane talks about was asexual at all, or just the virgin on the wedding day type.

But I think I might have figured out her desire to not have sex ever, that way she will be certain to never sleep with Cainkane.;)
She could have achieved not sleeping with me simply by doing what she did. She told me upfront how she felt so if I stayed with her no sex. If I quit calling her no sex. I hope shes happy and I hope she finds a compatiable person if thats what she wants.