Fat man on a plane...one seat or two?

[headscratcher4]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/04/obese-man-on-american-air_n_379979.html

All right, I am not a particularly svelt person...I could stand to lose 30 pounds. But am I wrong to worry that if I were on the plane with this guy and an emergency happend...say landing in the Hudson, I might have a hard time getting to an exit? Seriously, would this man even fit through one of the emergency exit doors?

I sympathize with the embarassment this man may feel...but I wouldn't want to be behind him. Am I wrong?

[Piscivore]

No.

Hey, I'm a big fat guy, "Obese" in every sense of the word, and 757lbs is more than twice my size. Hell yes he needs two tickets. Yes, his size is a safety concern.

[The Mutha]

Even without an emergency, how did the flight attendants get their cart down the aisle?

[plumjam]

Even without an emergency, how did the flight attendants get their cart down the aisle?

There was no need for them to get the cart past him. The fat ****** ate everything on it.

[Savagemutt]

Those poll options on HuffPo aren't very good: "Yes. It's unfair, but necessary." I don't think its unfair at all. If you take up the space of two seats your should have to pay for two seats. How is that unfair?

[Aepervius]

I would be more worried for the Weight And Balance of the airplane , than for the seating....

[headscratcher4]

IF you've ever flown from Boston to either Martha's Vinyard or Nantucket on Cape Air -- little two engine prop planes, seating about 10. They ask your weight and try to balance the cabin...it is a little disconcerting and for some embarassing to have to give your weight to the attendent.

This guy, however, couldn't even climg into that size plane, IMO.

[Ian Osborne]

There was a report in a UK newspaper about someone getting deep vein thrombosis (I think) due to an obese woman partly sitting on her during a long flight. What about her rights?

Yes, it's unfair that some people have to pay double for the same flight, but life's unfair. If you can't fit on one seat, you shouldn't expect the airline to provide a second for free, or the person next to you to suffer being crushed.

[WildCat]

The guy sitting next to him is looking at him like "WTF?". How is that guy even able to get the seat belt on, even with extensions?

[GreenLines]

As long as they're given the second seat, without another person sitting in it, then yeah, charge them for two seats.

[shadron]

No.

Hey, I'm a big fat guy, "Obese" in every sense of the word, and 757lbs is more than twice my size. Hell yes he needs two tickets. Yes, his size is a safety concern.

Uhhhh, "757" was a guess at the airplane type, not the guy's weight. I'd guess he weighs about 450 pounds, if his height is correctly proportioned to the guy next to him.

I think it would be correct for the airline to arrange for him to have two seats for no extra cost, if there were unfilled seats available. Otherwise, pay for an extra seat or wait for a more empty plane.

For the record, I'm about 20 lbs overweight at 195.

[headscratcher4]

I was in an emergency exit row recently when a large man sat down in the aisle seat...not as big as this guy, but pretty big. He needed the seat belt extension. Anyway, the stewardess asked him to move to an aisle toward the back of the plan because they had rules about obstructing the exit row.

I approved, but I wonder how long to a fat discrimination law suit...not that I think it would win, but there will be one.

[GreyICE]

I'm a good 30 pounds or so over my ideal weight. That being said, I'm also above 6', and those plane seats are ridiculously uncomfortable. You end up sitting next to 2 6'+ guys, and I don't care if they're all skinny (unless they're twigs), you're not happy that flight.

I like the solution of giving the people who genuinely can't fit in a seat, like that man, an extra seat if its available, or just bumping them from the flight until one becomes available (or having them pay for an extra seat, if they don't like being bumped).

[Piscivore]

Uhhhh, "757" was a guess at the airplane type, not the guy's weight.
Oops. :o

I'd guess he weighs about 450 pounds, if his height is correctly proportioned to the guy next to him.
No, he's bigger than that. I'm 350 and I can get into a single airplane seat- not especially confortably, but nowhere near that kind of overhang. 500+, at least.

[El Greco]

If I were travelling on the same plane with that guy and sensed an emergency, I'd be clinging on him with hands, feet and teeth. I can't imagine a better shock absorber (as long as I was clinging on the correct side).

[quixotecoyote]

If he was sitting down, obesity doesn't come it to it.

The man's a giant, easily two heads taller than anyone else on the plane.

Should giants have to purchase two seats?

[WildCat]

I'd guess he weighs about 450 pounds, if his height is correctly proportioned to the guy next to him.
It doesn't look to me like he's sitting, but is actually standing because he can't fit in the seat.

[Rolfe]

We had pretty much this exact thread a few months ago. It got quite unpleasant, as some of the "if you're fat you're a moron with no self control" mob waded in and started to insult Ysabella and a couple of other people.

I wonder if that photo is genuine? If it is, the man seems to be sitting not in his seat but on the arm of it. I'm not convinced the arrangement shown is the actual in-flight seating position, as opposed to him beginning to stand up or something like that. Surely you aren't allowed to pass an airline flight seated on the arm of your chair?

Rolfe.

[bickerer]

On a long ago full flight from Glasgow to Toronto, we were held up over an hour while the flight attendents looked for someone to give up their seat (with compensation) to accomodate a very large man who needed two. This delay caused us to miss our connecting flight in Toronto and spend the night in a hotel. Even without an emergency, it was an inconvenience for everyone else on the plane, and for those of us who missed connections because of it, an extra monetary burden (the airline DID give us food vouchers for the food court at the Toronto airport where $15.00 would get you a hot dog.) So yes, if you NEED two seats, you need to PURCHASE two seats.

[Metullus]

When I traveled with my then young daughter I would buy three seats for the two of us solely to insure that we would not be inconveniencing anyone with her fidgeting and our game playing during the flight.

On sold out flights it was not uncommon for other passengers to comment about how it was unfair that we had the entire row for ourselves.

[headscratcher4]

When I traveled with my then young daughter I would buy three seats for the two of us solely to insure that we would not be inconveniencing anyone with her fidgeting and our game playing during the flight.

On sold out flights it was not uncommon for other passengers to comment about how it was unfair that we had the entire row for ourselves.


My wife and I also often buy a third seat...especially now that airfares are lower...it generally has added up to about $150 per each of us per ticket, but it makes long flights all the more barable back there in prisoner class. We too get comments from other passengers about getting a whole row to ourselves, and occasionally, I've had stewardesses try to give my extra seat away...until I've pointed out that it was bought and paid for.

[WildCat]

My wife and I also often buy a third seat...especially now that airfares are lower...it generally has added up to about $150 per each of us per ticket, but it makes long flights all the more barable back there in prisoner class. We too get comments from other passengers about getting a whole row to ourselves, and occasionally, I've had stewardesses try to give my extra seat away...until I've pointed out that it was bought and paid for.
I see nothing wrong with this. And it's actually far less costly than buying seats in first class.

[headscratcher4]

I see nothing wrong with this. And it's actually far less costly than buying seats in first class.

Exactly right.

[GlennB]

I wonder if that photo is genuine? If it is, the man seems to be sitting not in his seat but on the arm of it. I'm not convinced the arrangement shown is the actual in-flight seating position, as opposed to him beginning to stand up or something like that.

That was my impression too. He isn't central in that seat.

But if he were central he'd be all over the guy on the right, and the window seat also seems to be occupied, so I'd guess he has sat on the armrest as a courtesy to his neighbour.

The article also says he was given a row to himself, which isn't the case in the photo. Looks like they re-arranged the seating.

[Skeptic]

I don't get it. If you TAKE UP TWO SEATS, due to being fat, extra tall, having wings, anything, pay for two seats.

[Wowbagger]

Airlines seats are often limited in number. If someone has to take up two of them, it is fair to charge for two seats. Though, it should go without saying that they be treated with the same respect and dignity as other passengers. And, as a bonus: If they pay for two seats, they also get two meals, if meals are included on the flight.

In situations where there is less scarcity, such as movie theaters (most of the time), then there should be no reason to charge for two tickets.

[plumjam]

They should sit them on a bean bag in front of the cockpit door, then we wouldn't need sky marshals.

Chicken Mcnuggets 1 Evildoers 0

[TragicMonkey]

They just need to clarify--when you purchase airline tickets, are you purchasing transport, or are you purchasing the right to occupy a seat on that transport?

If you're paying to be conveyed to a destination, then it's the airline's problem if they have inadequate facilities to meet your needs. You paid, it's their duty to provide your passage. That they lack the proper equipment isn't your fault--they should have planned better by having more spacious planes, or at least finding out the passenger's sizes before they board.

But if you're not paying for transportation to a destination, but are instead renting a seat on a moving vehicle, then the burden is on you, the purchaser, to purchase the quantity and quality necessary to meet your needs.

So, which is it? I'd say that based on all their rules and regulations, and the industry habit of asserting total control over you and your possessions, and their ability to bump you, move you, delay you, and strand you on the damn tarmac for hours at a stretch while keeping you prisoner, the airlines have clearly demonstrated that their passengers are not renting a seat, they are paying for the service of being conveyed to their destination--the airlines claim the justification for their ridiculous level of control is that it's necessary to achieve this complicated feat of getting you from point A to B. Therefore, the burden is on the airlines. Are people too fat? Then make larger seats. The airline thinks something's unsafe? Make it safe. Widen the aisle. Add more emergency exits. Oh no, your profits? Your problem.

[Darth Rotor]

I'm a good 30 pounds or so over my ideal weight. That being said, I'm also above 6', and those plane seats are ridiculously uncomfortable. You end up sitting next to 2 6'+ guys, and I don't care if they're all skinny (unless they're twigs), you're not happy that flight.

I like the solution of giving the people who genuinely can't fit in a seat, like that man, an extra seat if its available, or just bumping them from the flight until one becomes available (or having them pay for an extra seat, if they don't like being bumped).
FWIW:
I like the solution of selling the people who genuinely can't fit in a seat, like that man, an extra seat. And then the airline being forbidden to fill it with a standby.

DR

[GreyICE]

FWIW:
I like the solution of selling the people who genuinely can't fit in a seat, like that man, an extra seat. And then the airline being forbidden to fill it with a standby.

DR

If the plane already is launching with seats empty, why? It's not like those seats would have been used anyway.

I think the solution of bumping them until there's a plane with empty seats, or making them pay for an extra seat ahead of time (their choice) avoids all of the whining without any unfairness.

[Darth Rotor]

If the plane already is launching with seats empty, why? It's not like those seats would have been used anyway.
I see what you are saying. I agree.

DR

[jadey]

They just need to clarify--when you purchase airline tickets, are you purchasing transport, or are you purchasing the right to occupy a seat on that transport?

If you're paying to be conveyed to a destination, then it's the airline's problem if they have inadequate facilities to meet your needs. You paid, it's their duty to provide your passage. That they lack the proper equipment isn't your fault--they should have planned better by having more spacious planes, or at least finding out the passenger's sizes before they board.

But if you're not paying for transportation to a destination, but are instead renting a seat on a moving vehicle, then the burden is on you, the purchaser, to purchase the quantity and quality necessary to meet your needs.

So, which is it? I'd say that based on all their rules and regulations, and the industry habit of asserting total control over you and your possessions, and their ability to bump you, move you, delay you, and strand you on the damn tarmac for hours at a stretch while keeping you prisoner, the airlines have clearly demonstrated that their passengers are not renting a seat, they are paying for the service of being conveyed to their destination--the airlines claim the justification for their ridiculous level of control is that it's necessary to achieve this complicated feat of getting you from point A to B. Therefore, the burden is on the airlines. Are people too fat? Then make larger seats. The airline thinks something's unsafe? Make it safe. Widen the aisle. Add more emergency exits. Oh no, your profits? Your problem.

By making larger seats and widening the aisle, etc, you drive up the price of air travel. In effect, you're making everyone pay more.

Perhaps they could have a couple of rows with larger chairs that would cost 1.5 times the price.

[WildCat]

Perhaps they could have a couple of rows with larger chairs that would cost 1.5 times the price.
They do, it's called 1st Class.

[Wowbagger]

They just need to clarify--when you purchase airline tickets, are you purchasing transport, or are you purchasing the right to occupy a seat on that transport? Both. It's not either/or. But, seats are limited. If you take two, you're preventing one other person from taking that one.

If you're paying to be conveyed to a destination, then it's the airline's problem if they have inadequate facilities to meet your needs. You paid, it's their duty to provide your passage. That they lack the proper equipment isn't your fault--they should have planned better by having more spacious planes, or at least finding out the passenger's sizes before they board. Easier said than done. I'm sure some clever, innovative accountant can make the economics work, where we build larger planes and/or larger seats to accomodate the morbidly obese. But, you can't expect that to be done overnight.

[Piscivore]

They do, it's called 1st Class.

But, in order to afford first class, I'd need to cut back on junk food, which means I'd lose weight, which means I'd be able to fit into a coach seat, which means I could afford junk food, which means I'll gain wieght, which means I'd need the first class seat... wait. That's someone else to blame my yo-yo dieting problems on!

I need a lawyer...

[Piscivore]

Easier said than done. I'm sure some clever, innovative accountant can make the economics work, where we build larger planes and/or larger seats to accomodate the morbidly obese. But, you can't expect that to be done overnight.

Sounds like a business model for a niche market. "Pigasus airlines- helping pigs fly."

[El Greco]

And, as a bonus: If they pay for two seats, they also get two meals, if meals are included on the flight.

With this policy though, they'll soon be needing three seats.

[Eyeron]

One thing they could do is have a special seating area with enlarged seats and while may charge more for it, like a department store charges more for larger clothes, wouldn't have to worry about the two seats. or another possible solution is to just have planes dedicated to large sized people and their families.

[TragicMonkey]

By making larger seats and widening the aisle, etc, you drive up the price of air travel. In effect, you're making everyone pay more.


And if they shrunk the current seats to half the size, we'd all pay less?.....Or would the airlines charge the same price and pocket the difference?

It doesn't really matter. If a business wants to stay in business, they make things work. Explaining quality failures as necessary because they lack the innovation to make it work...not a formula for success.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

No.

Hey, I'm a big fat guy, "Obese" in every sense of the word, and 757lbs is more than twice my size. Hell yes he needs two tickets. Yes, his size is a safety concern.

I think the 757 was the airplane model, not his weight.


Although it could be both.

[WildCat]

And if they shrunk the current seats to half the size, we'd all pay less?.....Or would the airlines charge the same price and pocket the difference?

It doesn't really matter. If a business wants to stay in business, they make things work. Explaining quality failures as necessary because they lack the innovation to make it work...not a formula for success.
They are making things work, by charging obese people for 2 seats.

[Cynic]

No doubt this'll be a minority opinion, but just because I like trying on new perspectives...

We could consider that the sizes of the seats were decided upon based on what is normal, which is to say, the airline industry made a calculate decision based on statistics what sizes of seats they could away with. They gambled, took a risk. Inevitably, sometimes you lose when you take risks like that.

No doubt the seats are designed around some principle, like having to accommodate people some fraction of a standard deviation from the mean, but the existence of people outside the range is perfectly well understood by the airlines. And let's face it, if they didn't know coach seats were smallish, the ones in first class wouldn't be more roomy, now would they?

The other thing is, there's this idea people seem to have they when they travel, they've "bought a seat", and maybe that's how the airline wants to see it as well. But really, when you buy a ticket, what you're supposed to be paying for is transportation from one place to another. The seat is just supposed to be where you spend the time. The airline's expectation of how many people they can get on that plane is based on the number of seats, which is in turn based on their expectation that most passengers will fit in those seats.

So my suggestion is, when someone comes around that breaks the airline's expectations, the airline should admit the miscalculation is theirs, suck it up, and accommodate their customer. In America, at least, those airline calculations are increasingly incorrect. It's a terrible trend, but it's something the airlines need to adjust to. There are plenty of reasons to slim down, but living up to the expectations of Airbus engineers isn't one of them.

[Elvis666]

I'm a big guy, but can sit in a single seat. But Southwest now lets you buy the second seat, and will refund the price of it if the flight doesn't fill up. So I always buy the second seat, and my wife and I have three seats for the two of us. It is worth the extra cost and nobody is inconvenienced.

On our flight back from New York City, a guy much bigger than I am got on at our stop in Boston. When the flight filled up, they put him off, since he definitely did not fit in a single seat. Knowing what I weight, I would estimate that he was around 450 pounds.

[Ian Osborne]

Southwest now lets you buy the second seat, and will refund the price of it if the flight doesn't fill up.

This sounds like the ideal solution. :)

[HarryKeogh]

The Huffington Post website has updated the story...

UPDATE: The New York Post has more details on this incident. According to a Federal Aviation Administration spokesperson, the passenger in question was given "a whole row to himself" to comply with safety regulations. According to the Post, the flight staff was worried that the passenger would obstruct the plane's aisles in the event of an emergency.

[TragicMonkey]

They are making things work, by charging obese people for 2 seats.

And how long will that continue to work? I don't have any figures on it, but it seems to me that more people are getting fatter. And then there are public relations problems like this very story. Right now it seems that public sympathies lie with the airline having to deal with the obese man in the story. Will that be the case in ten years? In twenty? People only tolerate bad design when they have to. The day someone builds a more comfortable plane, all the other airlines are in trouble. Why won't they look ahead, instead of just reacting to everything? It's a recipe for failure. It's simply not good business.

[WildCat]

The day someone builds a more comfortable plane, all the other airlines are in trouble. Why won't they look ahead, instead of just reacting to everything? It's a recipe for failure. It's simply not good business.
The business reality is that many, if not most, people shop for flights according to price. If one airline decides to have larger seats (and some do) then the average price per seat must go up, no way around that fact. There are many fixed costs per airplane flight, and just a few variable costs (fuel, meals).

The reality is people know when they pick the cheap flight that they will likely be uncomfortable during that flight, it's a tradeoff they make to save a few bucks. For those unwilling to make that tradeoff, they have options. They can buy 2 seats, they can buy a seat in first class, they can buy a seat on an airline which has bigger seats.

Your solution forces everyone to buy a more expensive seat, whether they want to or not.

[Modified]

The business reality is that many, if not most, people shop for flights according to price. If one airline decides to have larger seats (and some do) then the average price per seat must go up, no way around that fact. There are many fixed costs per airplane flight, and just a few variable costs (fuel, meals).

If some airline had 50% wider seats for 50% greater cost I'd be all over that, especially for long flights. They would still have to reasonably restrict passenger size though, otherwise such flights would be full of overweight people, which would negate the benefits.

[jadey]

The other thing is, there's this idea people seem to have they when they travel, they've "bought a seat", and maybe that's how the airline wants to see it as well. But really, when you buy a ticket, what you're supposed to be paying for is transportation from one place to another. The seat is just supposed to be where you spend the time.

I think that this is an interesting perspective worth considering and I admit that my mindset is "bought a seat" or even more accurately "bought space" (me and my luggage). I think the airline should do what it can to be accomodating, so if there are two seats available, don't charge for it.

When we were travelling with young children and did not buy them a ticket, we sometimes lucked out and got an extra seat, and more often were stuck with our sons in our laps. I never felt as though the airline should design the seats to accomodate both me and my infant, nor did I expect that they should be obligated to reserve me two seats. Eventually, we sucked it up and bought the extra seat. I suspect that if I became obese, I would have the same attitude and buy the extra seat. FWIW. If a flight had one extra seat, and an obese person and a parent/child were both interested in the extra seat, I'd probably offer it to the obese person, but not sure how fair that is.

[Savagemutt]

And how long will that continue to work? I don't have any figures on it, but it seems to me that more people are getting fatter. And then there are public relations problems like this very story. Right now it seems that public sympathies lie with the airline having to deal with the obese man in the story. Will that be the case in ten years? In twenty? People only tolerate bad design when they have to. The day someone builds a more comfortable plane, all the other airlines are in trouble. Why won't they look ahead, instead of just reacting to everything? It's a recipe for failure. It's simply not good business.

This assumes that people getting fatter is inevitable. I would hope that isn't the case and we can make some headway against obesity.

But this does bring to mind a story on TV I saw a few years ago about a ferry company that was being sued because their seats were "too small". They'd been designed for the svelter people of 30 years ago rather than the more Rubenesque forms of today and the lawsuit was supposed to force them to upsize. Does anyone recall that? I think this happened in Washington or Oregon.

[jadey]

The business reality is that many, if not most, people shop for flights according to price. If one airline decides to have larger seats (and some do) then the average price per seat must go up, no way around that fact. There are many fixed costs per airplane flight, and just a few variable costs (fuel, meals).

The reality is people know when they pick the cheap flight that they will likely be uncomfortable during that flight, it's a tradeoff they make to save a few bucks. For those unwilling to make that tradeoff, they have options. They can buy 2 seats, they can buy a seat in first class, they can buy a seat on an airline which has bigger seats.

Your solution forces everyone to buy a more expensive seat, whether they want to or not.

Well stated.

Interestingly, I never look for sales, comparison shop, clip coupons, order rebates, etc. But when I shop for air-travel, rental car, I always shop by price. Not sure why that is.:confused:

[Savagemutt]

So my suggestion is, when someone comes around that breaks the airline's expectations, the airline should admit the miscalculation is theirs, suck it up, and accommodate their customer. In America, at least, those airline calculations are increasingly incorrect. It's a terrible trend, but it's something the airlines need to adjust to. There are plenty of reasons to slim down, but living up to the expectations of Airbus engineers isn't one of them.

How do you accommodate someone if the flight is already full?

[commandlinegamer]

Pity no-one could invent seats which were modular and could adjust to a multitude of different body styles.

Perhaps a more practicable solution would be to lose the seats and just adopt bean bags, with the added advantage that if you were about to crash into a hillside you could wave them in front of you crying 'Go away, nasty mountain!'*

* - With apologies to Billy Connolly.

[schplurg]

Uhhhh, "757" was a guess at the airplane type, not the guy's weight. I'd guess he weighs about 450 pounds, if his height is correctly proportioned to the guy next to him.

I think it would be correct for the airline to arrange for him to have two seats for no extra cost, if there were unfilled seats available. Otherwise, pay for an extra seat or wait for a more empty plane.

For the record, I'm about 20 lbs overweight at 195.

Hey, if I have to pay an extra $150 because my luggage is 5 pounds overweight than this guy should have to pay extra for his extra "burden" to the flight. Nothing unfair about it.

[Thunder]

if a man or woman takes up two seats, he/she should have to pay for two seats. seems pretty simple to me.

[Cynic]

How do you accommodate someone if the flight is already full?

I'd expect it to be the responsibility of the passenger to inform the airline of his special need, so they'd have advance warning.

[jadey]

About 5 years ago, I was on a Southwest flight. We had young kids, so we were able to preboard. There was an extremely obese man who chose to preboard as well. He raised the armrest and sat down, occupying two seats. The flight was completely booked, so the attendants asked for volunteers to take a different flight. They got a volunteer, and allowed the man to keep the two seats.

[TragicMonkey]

The business reality is that many, if not most, people shop for flights according to price. If one airline decides to have larger seats (and some do) then the average price per seat must go up, no way around that fact. There are many fixed costs per airplane flight, and just a few variable costs (fuel, meals).

The reality is people know when they pick the cheap flight that they will likely be uncomfortable during that flight, it's a tradeoff they make to save a few bucks. For those unwilling to make that tradeoff, they have options. They can buy 2 seats, they can buy a seat in first class, they can buy a seat on an airline which has bigger seats.

Your solution forces everyone to buy a more expensive seat, whether they want to or not.

Tell me, is your car more or less comfortable than the cars built and sold in the 1940s? Is it of the same quality as far as technology, comfort, and style? Or is it rather better? The cheapest new car today is superior to the best cars of the past. Why, then, is airline travel today actually worse than it was in the past?

If you want your business to thrive, you must continually improve. The businesses that know this and work at it succeed. The ones that don't fail. The only reason businesses that refuse to improve stay in business at all is when they have some sort of position to delay the inexorable tide of market forces. Airlines stay on (barely) because they ALL stink out loud, and there's not a viable alternative to flight. That's kept them more-or-less afloat so far, but it's definitely not a recipe for success. Every time airlines change their policies it's a defensive reaction to events, not a move forward in a plan. Fuel costs are up--charge for bags! People are too fat--buy two seats! Security is a concern--leave everyone locked in the plane for five hours on the tarmac! Every change has been prompted by a crisis, and every change has been for the worse.

[GreyICE]

This assumes that people getting fatter is inevitable. I would hope that isn't the case and we can make some headway against obesity.

But this does bring to mind a story on TV I saw a few years ago about a ferry company that was being sued because their seats were "too small". They'd been designed for the svelter people of 30 years ago rather than the more Rubenesque forms of today and the lawsuit was supposed to force them to upsize. Does anyone recall that? I think this happened in Washington or Oregon.

I rather imagine that they were too small thirty years ago, and too small today, and the company liked it better if they blame obesity rather than poor design.

Really, most furniture made thirty years ago remains quite comfortable and well designed today (at least if properly maintained and stuff) so I can't imagine its some huge thing.

[Sun Countess]

I'd expect it to be the responsibility of the passenger to inform the airline of his special need, so they'd have advance warning.

That's exactly my thought. We all_know_ what airline seats are like, so it shouldn't be a mystery to the passenger that he showed up too large to fit into one economy seat. Unless he pre-informed the airline, however, it was a mystery to them.

If somebody is in a wheelchair or needs to travel with an oxygen tanks, they know it's their responsibility to inform the airline of those needs so they can be accommodated, and same with the obese. I like the solution of paying for two seats, and then getting refunded the difference if the flight isn't full.