Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[E.J.Armstrong]

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

In Europe we are more civilised than that.

It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed.

All in all 2 -0 to Europe.

PS
If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty.

PPS
If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?

[Darth Rotor]

PS
If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty.

PPS
If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?
Blatant attempted derail reported.

Note and FYI: the number of appeals anyone on death row in the US is eligible for is greater than one.

The appeals process in Italy I don't understand well enough, so I'll wait and see.

DR

[The Central Scrutinizer]

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

Not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by the US government.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I've followed this case in local papers and over the web. "Innocent victim of unfair, corrupt foreign legal system" just doesn't wash.I can't believe this is what you got from following the case. OTOH, one of the issues that exist which led me to start the thread is that the US news of this event and the Italian news coverage of this event were starkly different. So being in Australia, it interests me what was reported in your news.


I have also followed the case from time to time, and I have a completely different picture of a travesty of justice. But it isn't so much a 'corrupt' legal system as it is more of a bigoted population and a cultural clash similar to how many blacks were lynched in the South in this country half a century ago.

[E.J.Armstrong]

Blatant attempted derail reported.

Note and FYI: the number of appeals anyone on death row in the US is eligible for is greater than one.

The appeals process in Italy I don't understand well enough, so I'll wait and see.

DR

So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder when in many areas of the USA she would have had people consumed by bloodlust gawping at her death throes in a US murder unit.

She is also lucky that in the future, if there is any evidence that demonstrates she has been wrongly convicted, unlike many parts of the USA, she will still be alive to walk free.

Her parents should be pleased she will not be murdered in a USA jail as so many people are.

She is lucky she chose to murder someone in the EU.

[E.J.Armstrong]

Not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by the US government.

What about the people killed by US officals in Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, other secret gulags and Baghram airbase. Oh you're right. They were never convicted of anything.


'..."Out of 2,545 potentially death penalty-eligible defendants in the past 19 years, the Department of Justice has sought capital punishment against 431 of them. Of that number, just 59 have been sentenced to die." (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Oct. 28, 2007).

"Since the federal government got back into the death penalty business in 1988, attorneys general have authorized 420 prosecutions, according to statistics kept by the Federal Death Penalty Resource Counsel Project: 180 during the 1990s, an average of 18 per year, and 240 since 2000, an average of 40 per year, mostly attributable to the Bush administration. "Of the 420 authorized prosecutions, 162 actually reached trial and sentencing. ...'
from http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/federal-death-penalty

The deliberate killing, by the state, of people who may actually be found innocent in the future is no more and no less than murder.

Luckily for Knox the EU does not officially murder people in that disgusting manner, so she will be alive to be freed, if she is ever found innocent. Both she and her parents should be grateful the EU is not like the USA.

[Tailgater]

So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder when in many areas of the USA she would have had people consumed by bloodlust gawping at her death throes in a US murder unit.

She is also lucky that in the future, if there is any evidence that demonstrates she has been wrongly convicted, unlike many parts of the USA, she will still be alive to walk free.

Her parents should be pleased she will not be murdered in a USA jail as so many people are.

She is lucky she chose to murder someone in the EU.

To be fair, there is no death penalty for doing cartwheels.:p

[E.J.Armstrong]

To be fair, there is no death penalty for doing cartwheels.:p

Or throwing stones or making rude comments about your leader or for being rude to policemen or even murder.

The Knox family should be pleased their daughter murdered someone in the EU. They will get her back in due course and they won't have anyone gawping at her as the EU murders her officially - because the EU does not behave so disgustingly.

[Skeptic]

So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder when in many areas of the USA she would have had people consumed by bloodlust gawping at her death throes in a US murder unit.

I say that it's a damn shame for Europe, letting murderers off after serving a sentence, often to kill again.

[Skeptic]

To be fair, there is no death penalty for doing cartwheels.:p

There should be...

[rustypouch]

Not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by the US government.

I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it?

[Newtons Bit]

I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it?

Not always. Both the federal government and the state governments that have not banned it execute people.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

What about the people killed by US officals in Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, other secret gulags and Baghram airbase. Oh you're right. They were never convicted of anything.

Do you have a list of those who were murdered in the secret "gulags"?


(Hint: the answer is "no")

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The deliberate killing, by the state, of people who may actually be found innocent in the future is no more and no less than murder.

Then why aren't those who committed the "murder" in prison?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it?

Both do it.

But I can amend my claim to say that not a single convicted felon has ever been murdered by any state in the US.

[Darth Rotor]

So what do you have to say about the fact that Knox will be alive to be released when she has served her time for murder
The same thing I have to say for any criminal who serves their time.

Debt paid to society.

(You might be interested in knowing that most murder convictions in the US DON'T get the death penalty. )

Pip pip, check your facts before bloviating, if you please.

DR

[Cainkane1]

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

In Europe we are more civilised than that.

It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed.

All in all 2 -0 to Europe.

PS
If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty.

PPS
If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?
In America only pre meditated murder is punished by death. There also has to be aggravaing circumstances. I'm not really familiar with this case but if Ms. Knox planned this murder and then killed her victim under heineous circumstances then in my opinion she would deserve the ultimate penalty. Its not supposed to be revenge its supposed to be a deterrant.

[Cainkane1]

I say that it's a damn shame for Europe, letting murderers off after serving a sentence, often to kill again.
Same thing happens in the USA. There have definitely been cases of paroled murderers going on to commit other murders. Look up Kenneth McDuff for a very good example.

Not every state in the USA has the death penalty. I would not be adverse to life with no parole.

[KoihimeNakamura]

Most people get life with no parole in this situation, actually.

[fuelair]

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

In Europe we are more civilised than that.

It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed.

All in all 2 -0 to Europe.

PS
If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty.

PPS
If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?When hell freezes over would be my guess:D. Oh, wait, there is no hell - so that would,then, be never.:)

[Skeptic]

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

In Europe we are more civilised than that.

Yet, as a Jew, somehow lots of my relatives in Europe were murdered by the state in civilized Europe, while none of my relatives in the USA were.

Funny how that goes.

[Sledge]

So you're not of Native American descent, then?


Btw, how far back are we allowed to go in this? Are we going to be allowed to bitch at the French for invading England, or should we agree on a cut off date?

[commandlinegamer]

This thread is hardly worthy of this forum, should be in AAH.

[linusrichard]

I don't know the American judicial system well, but is that because it's the State governments that do it?

No, it's because murder is, by definition, unlawful. Capital punishment, being lawful, is never murder. (I don't say this to defend capital punishment; I oppose it. But I recognize that "murder" is a legal category, and capital punishment does not belong in that category.)

[Sledge]

This thread is hardly worthy of this forum, should be in AAH.

It was spun off a thread insisting that a woman was convincted of murder because of her gymnastics. It was never going to end well.

[Darth Rotor]

So you're not of Native American descent, then?


Btw, how far back are we allowed to go in this? Are we going to be allowed to bitch at the French for invading England, or should we agree on a cut off date?
It might be more useful to blame the Cro Magnon ...

[qayak]

It might be more useful to blame the Cro Magnon ...

. . . or Obama.

[Beerina]

She is lucky she murdered someone in Europe. It means she won't be murdered by the state with people gripped by bloodlust gawping at her in her death throes.

In Europe we are more civilised than that.

Good to know that our efforts in WW II changed your minds. It's rare to receive praise for the US nowadays.


It also means that if new evidence should become available and she be found to be innocent in the future she would still alive to be freed.

Yes, but one could also argue there's less resistance to fraud in convictions (which, I will point out, I don't think applies in this case.)



All in all 2 -0 to Europe.

PS
If Usans insist on murdering people in Europe they will be tried and sent to jail if found guilty.

PPS
If the USA is really interested in the law when is the USA going to send all the CIA agents found guilty of kidnapping someone on Italian soil and transporting him for torture to Italy to serve their sentences?

If they were rogue agents, they should be sent back. If not, and they were acting on official orders of the US government, they should not, nor should there be a conviction, because this is a diplomatic issue between nations. Unless it were a true, international war crimes trial, which this wasn't.

[NoZed Avenger]

She is lucky she chose to murder someone in the EU.

Quite the incentive system you've set up there, old boy.

Pip pip.

[Donal]

Or throwing stones or making rude comments about your leader or for being rude to policemen or even murder.

The Knox family should be pleased their daughter murdered someone in the EU. They will get her back in due course and they won't have anyone gawping at her as the EU murders her officially - because the EU does not behave so disgustingly.


Is that because the EU is just so much more civilized than the United States of Amerikkka? Or because the EU isn't actually a government and doesn't prosecute such crimes?

[brodski]

because the EU isn't actually a government and doesn't prosecute such crimes?

Or perhaps because the membership of the EU requires that members states give up the right impose a judicial sentence of death in any and all circumstances?

[Donal]

Except it doesn't. The EU on principal refers to Article 13 of the European Convention on Human Rights (which still doesn't outright ban the death penalty), but not all member nations have ratified it.

Besides, there is a difference between Italy and the EU

[gtc]

Is it simply that the OP can't stand the idea that the US is run by a black man?

[Darth Rotor]

Besides, there is a difference between Italy and the EU
IIRC, while Italy does not have the death penalty, it condemned the lira to death by joining the EU's euro monetary union. :p

DR

[dudalb]

Is it simply that the OP can't stand the idea that the US is run by a black man?

Nah, The OP can't stand Americans, period, regardless of race or creed.

[Bill Thompson]

Where is the original thread?

How did she do it if somone else is convicted?

How did she do it without leaving any physical evidence?

[Agatha]

Where is the original thread?http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161229

How did she do it if somone else is convicted? The court found that three of them acted together

How did she do it without leaving any physical evidence? What makes you suggest that there was no physical evidence? The other thread may give you some further information.

[Sledge]

It might be more useful to blame the Cro Magnon ...

What's evolution ever done for us?

[loverofzion]

Then why aren't those who committed the "murder" in prison?
They are.
And you don't need to put murder in quotation marks.
There WAS a real live murder and the convicted are where they are supposed to be.

[loverofzion]

Yet, as a Jew, somehow lots of my relatives in Europe were murdered by the state in civilized Europe, while none of my relatives in the USA were.

Funny how that goes.
Let me underline that: Europe headed by Germany, home to Faust and Beethoven, etc- put to death 6 million Jewish women, children and men for no other reason other than they had been born Jewish.

Civilized huh?