Low Level Conspiracy

[sadhatter]

When reading conspiracy theories, i tend to contrast them with other fiction that i enjoy. And after some consideration, i have came to the following conclusion, whomever is behind 9/11 sucks at their job.

Conspiracy theories are based on a premise i find amusing , a large organization with almost infinite power, is running the world, or at the least in a position to cause catastrophic world events. Yet, the only people that have the ability to stop them, or for that matter even realize their plans, are averege joes, or discredited scholars. No one in a position of any power whatsoever seems to be able to do anything, but, thousands of bored 20 somethings can find hundreds of hours worth of " evidence" to show thier evil plan.


So the first problem, is , how did this organization get this much power? If its this poorly organized, leaving this many clues, mistakes, and witnesses how has it thrived this long? I mean, i am not exactly a black ops agent, but if i was in a position of power in this organization, i would have noticed several flaws in this plan right away, that i would have corrected before it was implemented.

1) Plan should have happened at night, less witnesses, less ability to film, poorer image quality, etc.

2) Clear the streets as much as possible before attack. To avoid witnesses.

3) Slam more than one plane into each tower, thereby making sure that there could be no survivors.

The list could go on and on, but it is a quick way to show that whomever is planning this, is not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

So what we are left with is the following premise.

A group is fooling or controlling all experts, and anyone with a lick of power or influence. But, this group is powerless to stop some 20 somethings. They have no way to intimidate, controll or otherwise stop these people. Yet, they can controll, intimidate, and manipulate everyone else on the planet.

This is just silly, ignoring the fact that thier information is wrong, ignoring the fact that thier leaders are obvious hacks and charlatans, this alone makes the truth movement laughable.

Although this may have came off as a bit harsh, i am open to an explination as to how an organization that cannot manage to keep uneducated powerless people ( not to be insulting, i would put myself in this group. I have little special knowlege that would qualify me for greater understanding of 9/11 than anyone else. And i have no political power.) from divulging their secrets, yet, can keep the rest of the world, including militaries, politicians, etc etc. under its thumb.

[R.Mackey]

Welcome to the Forums.

Your point is well taken. My own view of it is here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2446470). Doesn't seem to faze the Truthers, however, who decry our much simpler view as implausible while proposing the most outlandish scenarios possible...

This is why we never get a complete hypothesis out of them. They can't even express one without giggling. Hence the endless "argument to anomaly" and "we're just asking questions" nonsense.

[sadhatter]

I just don't understand in what context this group could exist. If they could shut up an entire country, they could shut up a keyboard jockey.

If they could muster the resources to commit 9/11 they could hire someone to plan it well.

The fact of the matter is that , if this was a conspiracy we wouldn't know about it. And if and when we did, it wouldn't be with questionable evidence, and made up facts, it would be revealed because it is impossible to get such a large number of people to participate in something like this without, differing opinions and goals. And eventually there would be a whistleblower with real facts, and evidence that dosn't disolve at a puff of air.

I mean really my point can be boiled down to one sentance and applied to almost any conspiracy theory.

" If i could plan it better, it wasn't a conspiracy."

[Travis]

My position has long been that any organization capable of pulling off an Inside Job 9/11 scenario is already so powerful that the entire thing was unnecessary. We'd wake up one day and we've invaded the Middle East, the Bill of Rights has been rescinded and all we can do is grumble about it while "they" just do whatever they want. No need for subterfuge. No need for a false flag. Just a huge, "**** you! We control everything!"

[Gawdzilla]

My position has long been that any organization capable of pulling off an Inside Job 9/11 scenario is already so powerful that the entire thing was unnecessary. We'd wake up one day and we've invaded the Middle East, the Bill of Rights has been rescinded and all we can do is grumble about it while "they" just do whatever they want. No need for subterfuge. No need for a false flag. Just a huge, "**** you! We control everything!"

New here, so please forgive if this has already been addressed.

Why?

[sadhatter]

i whole heartedly agree, if they had that much power, why be secretive about it?

Hell, if they were open they would probably get a large amount of people joining them, look at Nazi germany.

The problem is that people think the world works like a movie, movie plots are simple, and designed to entertain, but someone people cannot fathom that the real world is no where near that simple.

And that is the irony of the situation, Ct'ers think that they have unraveled this giant mystery , when really they are just simplifying a massivley complicated event down to a Michael Bay flick.

[sadhatter]

This organization is big enough to shut up entire countries. These countries have things called missles, guns, and people. Due to this the organization would have to have more military might than the country, enough so that the country would not even think of an open war.

Becuase if suddenly there was a big battle between China and "???" how would that be explained?

Look at nazi germany, did the nazi's go around, and try and say the jews were killed by accident, car pile ups, or terrorists? No , once they had enough power to be sure the jews couldn't fight back they simply moved in and did what they want. This is what corrupt governments do in the real world.

[TruthersLie]

Sadhatter.

Welcome to the forums.

Personally I think twoofs often think that this conspiracy is a cross between Rainman and the Ateam.

so capable they can use cutting edge technology and have it be better than it can be in all reality (nanothermite, fake planes, DEW weapons) in ways that has fantastic operational security (tighter than US nuclear missle silos and launch codes, not one whistleblower who was part of the conspiracy in the thousands has ever come forward) but who leaves behind enough clues and errors that college drop outs, pizza delivery boys, army deserters, discredited physicists, gym architects, manchester wannabees and generally people with serious issues can figure it out.

If it wasn't for those blasted kids, they would have gotten away with it too...

Personally I think too many of them think that scooby doo and the xfiles are real. IMHO

[sadhatter]

You know i sometimes get people angry with this line of logic ( mainly a friend of mine who has been into the CT's For a while) but we are stupid. Compared to many people who have the education on the subject we know next to nothing. So to think that ( speaking for myself) an unemployeed college student, could suddenly break the case , is just narcissisim. It is making ones self out to be some kind of superhero.

Which brings me to my second point, for having all this knowlege, they sure do nothing with it. I mean i don't want to poke this beehive, but if i honestly believed that there was some giant conspiracy, and i truely believed i had the truth. i wouldn't just sit around and post about how pissed i was about it. Or march in the open, with no guards, no ability to defend myself, about how it is an inside job.

I know jones likes to talk about V a lot, ( though apperantly moore is a mason, but that i guess is another thread) and if he believed his own crap, then he should be encouraging this type of resistance. But no, strangely he is just asking for money and publicity. I must have missed the chapter in V when he broke into the t.v. station, and then gave his adress for donations to be sent.

[tj15]

I have been wanting to hear a complete hypothesis from a truther for what they think actually happened that day (like a very specific timeline) for a while now. But they can't come up with anything. Or they think they have something, but it makes NO sense.

Take CIT for example... There is TONS of evidence that a plane hit the Pentagon. But they take a couple eyewitness testimonies and think it trumps all the other evidence. And when they are asked for a hypothesis for what they think happened, they come up with a "plot" that would be the stupidest and riskiest plot a conspirator could come up with. I mean, look at what they want us to believe... That the plane FLEW OVER the Pentagon at the same time pre-planted explosives blew up inside the Pentagon. And then somehow all the airplane debris and DNA was planted (of course they never attempt to prove that). They say that the light poles were planted (at least one in real time with Lloyd England). That entire plot is so stunningly stupid it isn't even funny.

Why on earth would they fake an airplane crash (with lots of possible eyewitnesses) when they could simply crash it into the Pentagon like they did with the towers?!

[sadhatter]

I mean i think its pretty telling that if you ask 20 different truthers, you get 20 varyingly different events. But the only common thread is that each one seems like someone said

" jim write a story about how this could have happened. "

And they went with it. Each person ads thier own flavor to it, and very few of them agree in detail as to what happened, or who did it.

It seems very similar to if you were to ask 20 christians exactly what they believe. Woo tends to let the believer fill in the blanks becuase then the believer has a more personal attatchment to the iea. So your no longer calling ******** on an idea, but calling it on the person.

Kind of a crappy tactic, if i do say so myself.

[Travis]

New here, so please forgive if this has already been addressed.

Why?

This is an organization that has every structural engineer, everyone in the US military, Congress, every member of the FBI, FDNY ,NYPD, FAA, NTSB, all the NATO countries domestic intelligence organizations and and their military's either totally fooled or cowed into compliance.

Once you have that why even bother with a fake terrorist attack?

[Algebra34]

I just don't understand in what context this group could exist. If they could shut up an entire country, they could shut up a keyboard jockey.

If they could muster the resources to commit 9/11 they could hire someone to plan it well.

The fact of the matter is that , if this was a conspiracy we wouldn't know about it. And if and when we did, it wouldn't be with questionable evidence, and made up facts, it would be revealed because it is impossible to get such a large number of people to participate in something like this without, differing opinions and goals. And eventually there would be a whistleblower with real facts, and evidence that dosn't disolve at a puff of air.

I mean really my point can be boiled down to one sentance and applied to almost any conspiracy theory.

" If i could plan it better, it wasn't a conspiracy."

If the entire country is "shut up" about it why are you signing up here eight years later still asking about it? Is this place special?

[Algebra34]

This is an organization that has every structural engineer, everyone in the US military, Congress, every member of the FBI, FDNY ,NYPD, FAA, NTSB, all the NATO countries domestic intelligence organizations and and their military's either totally fooled or cowed into compliance.

Once you have that why even bother with a fake terrorist attack?

Yeah yeah yeah, the ole "EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE IN ON IT" debunking. Wasn't that the PM magazine stop all 9/11 conspiracy theory once and for all strategy from years ago? Didn't it work? Why not? You're still here. And you got new friends signing up here everyday to still try and debunk it all.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Yeah yeah yeah, the ole "EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE IN ON IT" debunking. Wasn't that the PM magazine stop all 9/11 conspiracy theory once and for all strategy from years ago? Didn't it work? Why not? You're still here. And you got new friends signing up here everyday to still try and debunk it all.

It's been debunked, but you're not aware of it because you're still asleep!

[Gawdzilla]

Yeah yeah yeah, the ole "EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE IN ON IT" debunking. Wasn't that the PM magazine stop all 9/11 conspiracy theory once and for all strategy from years ago? Didn't it work? Why not? You're still here. And you got new friends signing up here everyday to still try and debunk it all.

I'm just here to laugh to the CTwits.

[Scott Sommers]

Yeah yeah yeah, the ole "EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE IN ON IT" debunking. Wasn't that the PM magazine stop all 9/11 conspiracy theory once and for all strategy from years ago? Didn't it work? Why not? You're still here. And you got new friends signing up here everyday to still try and debunk it all.

What a reply, Einstein. Everyone here knows that 911 Truth is the issue that divides the nation.

Actually, the idea of kids who know everything and the washed out scientist was pioneered by the Japanese. That's the premise of the original Godzilla and Mozilla. That's why I'm always confused by my 911 conspiracy friends on Facebook who fill their page with quotes from the Matrix.

Fight the fight! Be a hero in your own eyes. That's what's important now isn't it. Who cares if everyone laughs at you and thinks you're a joke? Right?

[Algebra34]

What a reply, Einstein. Everyone here knows that 911 Truth is the issue that divides the nation.

Actually, the idea of kids who know everything and the washed out scientist was pioneered by the Japanese. That's the premise of the original Godzilla and Mozilla. That's why I'm always confused by my 911 conspiracy friends on Facebook who fill their page with quotes from the Matrix.

Fight the fight! Be a hero in your own eyes. That's what's important now isn't it. Who cares if everyone laughs at you and thinks you're a joke? Right?

No you keep fighting the fight here everyday. Here everyday. Evvvveryday. That's the joke. And it makes me laugh. Everyday I stop by.

[TexasJack]

I'm just here to laugh to the CTwits.

I think that's why most of us are here, it's damn good entertainment.

[Travis]

Yeah yeah yeah, the ole "EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE IN ON IT" debunking. Wasn't that the PM magazine stop all 9/11 conspiracy theory once and for all strategy from years ago? Didn't it work? Why not? You're still here. And you got new friends signing up here everyday to still try and debunk it all.

First off, it continues to be a debunking point because it is still true. Facts have this tendency to stay "true" regardless of whether we want them to.

Secondly, are you really arguing that because stupidity continues to exist the stupidity must be right?

[Algebra34]

First off, it continues to be a debunking point because it is still true. Facts have this tendency to stay "true" regardless of whether we want them to.

You're debating something everyone already knows is true? Everyday for years? How come?

Secondly, are you really arguing that because stupidity continues to exist the stupidity must be right?

No. I'm asking you to just prove it's all just stupidity once and for all eight years later. You wouldn't be here if it was all adequately debunked. In fact, why is there a sub forum here still dedicated to just 9/11 conspiracy at all? Why here of all places is 9/11 separated from all the other conspiracies? Surely you guys should be able to even debunk it enough in your own backyard to get it all lumped in with Bigfoot and Nessie. Can't you? Why is this particular sub forum so busy?

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

You're debating something everyone already knows is true? Everyday for years? How come?



No. I'm asking you to just prove it's all just stupidity once and for all eight years later. You wouldn't be here if it was all adequately debunked. In fact, why is there a sub forum here still dedicated to just 9/11 conspiracy at all? Why here of all places is 9/11 separated from all the other conspiracies? Surely you guys should be able to even debunk it enough in your own backyard to get it all lumped in with Bigfoot and Nessie. Can't you? Why is this particular sub forum so busy?

The problem with you Truthers is that you have no concept of reality. The reality that the CTs is complete & utter garbage, where Truthers quote-mine, add or stretch the imagination of some fantastic story to embellish the truth.

[TruthersLie]

You're debating something everyone already knows is true? Everyday for years? How come?



No. I'm asking you to just prove it's all just stupidity once and for all eight years later. You wouldn't be here if it was all adequately debunked. In fact, why is there a sub forum here still dedicated to just 9/11 conspiracy at all? Why here of all places is 9/11 separated from all the other conspiracies? Surely you guys should be able to even debunk it enough in your own backyard to get it all lumped in with Bigfoot and Nessie. Can't you? Why is this particular sub forum so busy?

Hi Algebra.

Why is this sub forum so busy? That would be because TRUTHERS LIE. THey spew crap from their asses as FACT when it is conjecture and lies.

So people go to youtube, or they have someone send them a
OMG, the government did 9/11 email with a list of "facts." Then many of those folks take it at face value and start spewing the same crap. Over and over again.

I mean there is a full cottage industry of individuals who regurgitate the same DEBUNKED crap over and over and over to scam money off of naive truthers who don't have the education, experience or knowledge to realize how full of crap they are.

DRG is a fantastic example. Over 150 errors, omissions and outright LIES in debunking 9/11 debunking. But does he fix it? No. He publishes more books to ca$h in on da twoof. And those books? Are filled with the same errors.

Or can we forget the Loose Change: I can't even remember how many editions they are on now series. Over 150 factual errors and lies from 2nd edition, and over 30 distortions and 10 outright lies from 3rd edition.

And yet these folks ca$h in.

So yes we come here, and we debunk the twoof when they get new twoofettes.

If the TRUTH movement didn't LIE so much, or if the TRUTH movement policed their own movement, we wouldn't have to.

[Dave Rogers]

If the entire country is "shut up" about it why are you signing up here eight years later still asking about it? Is this place special?

That was, in fact, sadhatter's point. If the entirety of the scientific, engineering, firefighting, accident investigation and law enforcement communities has been intimidated into silence about 9/11, how come a few angry seventeen-year-olds are still able to post from their mothers' basements about how it was a conspiracy? Since the truth movement is so few, how much more effort would it take to shut them up too?

The problem with poor critical thinking skills is that the inability to apply them to one's own statements can lead to embarrassment like this.

Dave

[Travis]

You're debating something everyone already knows is true? Everyday for years? How come?

Obviously there are those that are deficient in their thinking skills and they are responsible for the continuing need to combat ignorance and lies.

No. I'm asking you to just prove it's all just stupidity once and for all eight years later. You wouldn't be here if it was all adequately debunked. In fact, why is there a sub forum here still dedicated to just 9/11 conspiracy at all? Why here of all places is 9/11 separated from all the other conspiracies? Surely you guys should be able to even debunk it enough in your own backyard to get it all lumped in with Bigfoot and Nessie. Can't you? Why is this particular sub forum so busy?

Because of the awesomeness of this forums debunkers they keep coming out of the woodwork to do battle. Is it our fault that people keep showing up with their faulty ideas that need to be corrected? But the mere continued existence of these faulty ideas does not make them anything other than "faulty."

[Dubbi]

Is Algebra arguing that his point has any merit as long as people argue against it? Does this mean that he considers the absence of an argument against a statement, reason to think a statement is false?

[Unsecured Coins]

You wouldn't be here if it was all adequately debunked.

I'm here because people still come in and want to argue **** right out of 2006 like we've never heard it before. What's this week's smoking gun? Who's the latest B lister to come out in a black shirt and get 15 minutes on the Alex Jones show?

We're here because people refuse to listen when they get the answers they want and ignore them. You're still here because you cling to this idiotic notion that you're right.

[gumboot]

1) Plan should have happened at night, less witnesses, less ability to film, poorer image quality, etc.

2) Clear the streets as much as possible before attack. To avoid witnesses.

3) Slam more than one plane into each tower, thereby making sure that there could be no survivors.

The list could go on and on, but it is a quick way to show that whomever is planning this, is not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.



Hi, your criticism of Conspiracy Theorists is solid, but unfortunately I don't agree at all with your reasoning above. Presuming that the objective of the perpetrators was to galvanise public opinion against Muslims and enable an invasion and Conquest of the Middle East, ensuring maximum exposure for the attack was a must.

The problem with the "false flag" premise is not that governments don't commit false flag terrorism against their own people (many have) or that a false flag terrorism attack wouldn't look like the 9/11 attacks (it would be something along those lines), but that there's just no evidence, in this instance, that a false flag occurred, and ample evidence that the attack was a genuine terrorist attack.

[TruthersLie]

Gumboot.

Would you run a false flag event on the scale or scope that twoofs claim was done on 9/11?

The KISS rule would have this op thrown out before it ever made it beyond the planning stage.

There are dozens of (if not hundreds) easier plans which are more direct and simpler to do but that would have as big of an impact (if not bigger).

[dafydd]

Welcome to the Forums.

Your point is well taken. My own view of it is here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2446470). Doesn't seem to faze the Truthers, however, who decry our much simpler view as implausible while proposing the most outlandish scenarios possible...

This is why we never get a complete hypothesis out of them. They can't even express one without giggling. Hence the endless "argument to anomaly" and "we're just asking questions" nonsense.

On other threads I've asked Bill,Barduma and Algebra to give a me a simple resume of what they think happened on 9/11 but answers came there none.

[gumboot]

Gumboot.

Would you run a false flag event on the scale or scope that twoofs claim was done on 9/11?


Presuming the objectives of invading the Middle East etc... yes, I would. A regular terrorist attack would have been insufficient. 9/11 may have been the largest terrorist attack in terms of those killed, but in terms of psychological impact it was several orders of magnitude bigger.


The KISS rule would have this op thrown out before it ever made it beyond the planning stage.

The 9/11 plot is exceedingly simple. That's one of the reasons it was so successful.


There are dozens of (if not hundreds) easier plans which are more direct and simpler to do but that would have as big of an impact (if not bigger).

Such as?

[Klimax]

Presuming the objectives of invading the Middle East etc... yes, I would. A regular terrorist attack would have been insufficient. 9/11 may have been the largest terrorist attack in terms of those killed, but in terms of psychological impact it was several orders of magnitude bigger.




The 9/11 plot is exceedingly simple. That's one of the reasons it was so successful.




Such as?

I think TrutherLie refferes to propsed conspircy by CTers,not actual conspiracy for 11/9/2001.

[TruthersLie]

Presuming the objectives of invading the Middle East etc... yes, I would. A regular terrorist attack would have been insufficient. 9/11 may have been the largest terrorist attack in terms of those killed, but in terms of psychological impact it was several orders of magnitude bigger.


but would you doing a FALSE FLAG attack use something sooooo convoluted when you don't have to?


The 9/11 plot is exceedingly simple. That's one of the reasons it was so successful.


I think we have crossed wires here. I'm not talking about the extremely simple plan of put 19 men on 4 jets, kill the pilots and fly into buildings. That follows the KISS rule to a tee. That was simple (and to be very honest, brilliant).

I am talking about the Twoofs rube goldberg conspiracy making machine of using fake planes, thermite in/on the towers/cd the towers, shooting down flight 93, faking hijackers, using hijackers as patsies etc...

Wouldn't you (if you were planning a FALSE FLAG event) do something much simplier? I know I would.


Such as?

I wrote a HUGE reply and JREF ate it. I had about 10 different ways to have horrific attacks which would have pointed directly to Iraq which would use under 100 people... I don't feel like redoing it all.

But I'll give you a few
Remember I am planning a false flag attack to get public sentiment to attack the middle east (esp Iraq, which I have a hard on and want to invade cuz they wantd to kill my daddy, and I want to make my friends rich cuz they own stock in companies)

1. 4 large crop dusters. Fill them with mustard gas, ricin gas, cyanide gas, even zyklon B. Have them fly over New York Times Square on New Years eve at 1130 to midnight. have them fly in from 4 different directions and just let it all go on the crowd. Have real pilots, land at private airfields put in dead iraqi patsies (who were over come by the poison gas).

It would kill hundreds (if not thousands) and be on national TV, LIVE.

Or have them fly over and around the superbowl or the world series, after all sporting events prior to 9/11 would have planes fly over often carrying a message, or parachuters (super bowl is a better target, think of that nice big oval and just fly inside the oval until empty)

2. hijack a LNG container ship, rig it to blow, remote control it directly into NYC harbor (or philidelphia/LA)

3. Dirty bomb in some major city with iraqi patsy. set up fake information on his laptop.

4. ryder car bomb like timothy m in OKC in several cities at once.

And the list goes on and on and on. There are lots of ways to create terror and do it as a False Flag event that are MUCH easier than the convoluted crap truthers come up with.

And that is just off the top of my head... I'm sure military commando's and planners could come up with more, better and faster which require under 100 people.

[gumboot]

but would you doing a FALSE FLAG attack use something sooooo convoluted when you don't have to?

There's nothing convoluted about the 9/11 attacks.


I think we have crossed wires here. I'm not talking about the extremely simple plan of put 19 men on 4 jets, kill the pilots and fly into buildings. That follows the KISS rule to a tee. That was simple (and to be very honest, brilliant).

I'm sorry, I thought you were presenting an argument for why the 9/11 attacks couldn't be a false flag, by pointing out things you'd have done differently (staging it at night, etc). I don't see any point in engaging in discussion about ludicrous CT theories because they're, well, ludicrous. I'm talking about the concept of 9/11 unfolding as we saw, but being perpetrated by the USG instead of Al Qaeda.


I am talking about the Twoofs rube goldberg conspiracy making machine of using fake planes, thermite in/on the towers/cd the towers, shooting down flight 93, faking hijackers, using hijackers as patsies etc...

But they're all individual, isolated theories, most of them ludicrous. None of them is a single coherent event.


Wouldn't you (if you were planning a FALSE FLAG event) do something much simplier? I know I would.

My main issue is with you claiming you'd try to make it happen when no one was around to see it. As I said, if your objective is to make a spectacular and horrific attack that galvanises public support behind your ambitions, you'll want the attack to be as highly visible as possible.


I wrote a HUGE reply and JREF ate it. I had about 10 different ways to have horrific attacks which would have pointed directly to Iraq which would use under 100 people... I don't feel like redoing it all.

I don't think I can think of a single potential terrorist attack that could exceed 9/11 for impact without vastly exceeding it in necessary resources. 9/11 was a phenomenally powerful statement, all done relatively cheaply.


1. 4 large crop dusters. Fill them with mustard gas, ricin gas, cyanide gas, even zyklon B. Have them fly over New York Times Square on New Years eve at 1130 to midnight. have them fly in from 4 different directions and just let it all go on the crowd. Have real pilots, land at private airfields put in dead iraqi patsies (who were over come by the poison gas).

You then have to explain how those gases got into the USA, how they got into the aircraft, and how the aircraft got into controlled airspace. That sounds like an exceedingly difficult plot. And not particularly effective either - air-spread chemical and biological weapons are notoriously ineffective. You also don't have the long term psychological impact that you get with 9/11, because all evidence of the attacks could be removed very quickly.


It would kill hundreds (if not thousands) and be on national TV, LIVE.

Except you'd be unlikely to catch it live, because it would all be over before the media caught on to it. Contrast that with 9/11, which unfolded over several hours, with countless horrific images to be replayed over and over. Finally, you'd be lucky to kill thousands with an air dispersal of chemical or biological weapons. The 9/11 attacks, meanwhile, also killed thousands.

On that note, I thought you said you'd conduct an attack at night, and make sure no one was around? Which is it?


Or have them fly over and around the superbowl or the world series, after all sporting events prior to 9/11 would have planes fly over often carrying a message, or parachuters (super bowl is a better target, think of that nice big oval and just fly inside the oval until empty)

It would take quite an exceptional pilot to crop dust a stadium like that. Crop dusters are very difficult aircraft to handle.


hijack a LNG container ship, rig it to blow, remote control it directly into NYC harbor (or philidelphia/LA)

The logistics are this would be quite complicated also, the impact would be minimal, and the probability of success would be pretty slim (maneuvering a container ship is not exactly straight forward).


Dirty bomb in some major city with iraqi patsy. set up fake information on his laptop.

Aside from explaining how a dirty bomb got into the USA, yeah, easy... :rolleyes:


ryder car bomb like timothy m in OKC in several cities at once.

Now you're thinking. This is more along the lines of what I'd expect. Of course it has the problem that post Timothy McVeigh the government tended to take a keen interest in anyone buying large quantities of explosive pre-cursor. The benefit of the suicide hijacking is that prior to the hijacking no one has actually done anything even remotely suspicious or illegal.


And the list goes on and on and on. There are lots of ways to create terror and do it as a False Flag event that are MUCH easier than the convoluted crap truthers come up with.

I wasn't referring to convoluted crap, I was referring to the 9/11 attacks. I presumed you were too.


And that is just off the top of my head... I'm sure military commando's and planners could come up with more, better and faster which require under 100 people.

Such as hijacking several airliners and ramming them into buildings? ;)

[angrysoba]

Yeah yeah yeah, the ole "EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE IN ON IT" debunking. Wasn't that the PM magazine stop all 9/11 conspiracy theory once and for all strategy from years ago? Didn't it work? Why not? You're still here. And you got new friends signing up here everyday to still try and debunk it all.

No you keep fighting the fight here everyday. Here everyday. Evvvveryday. That's the joke. And it makes me laugh. Everyday I stop by.

No. I'm asking you to just prove it's all just stupidity once and for all eight years later. You wouldn't be here if it was all adequately debunked. In fact, why is there a sub forum here still dedicated to just 9/11 conspiracy at all? Why here of all places is 9/11 separated from all the other conspiracies? Surely you guys should be able to even debunk it enough in your own backyard to get it all lumped in with Bigfoot and Nessie. Can't you? Why is this particular sub forum so busy?

Well, the same could apply to evolution by natural selection, or rather "intelligent design". Intelligent design is about as solid a theory as anything the Truthers have and yet there are still people believing in it and still explaining why there's no possibility that "A human being can be created by random bits of stuff bumping into each other".

Why do people persist in arguing with Intelligent Designers? Surely the fact that those who believe in evolution haven't convinced the whole world of its truth implies it must be false and intelligent design is correct.

Is that your position?

(I realize the hazard of even giving an analogy like that to any Truther on the basis that, yes, that might well be their position).