I hate in when I can't fix computers

[El Greco]

I am the technician among my friends and I usually fix all their computer problems. Today has been a black day and a serious stab in my expertise. I couldn't solve two problems in the same day:

Problem 1)
A friend calls to say he can't connect to the Internet. All diagnosing takes place from the phone. His settings are correct. The number is correct. We call the ISP, no problem. We manualy dial the number and we listen to a modem. His modem is ok. We change the phone number, user name and password and he can actually connect to another ISP. When we change the number back to his ISP's number, the modem won't dial it. I tell him to read for me the modem log. "Warning: unrecognized response. Hanging up the modem". Actually his ISP's number is the only one his modem won't dial! It can dial everything else! We try to place an asterisk in front of the number. Still nothing. I search in the net and find a command to list "blacklisted" numbers. There are no blacklisted numbers in the modem. Another person with the exact same settings, including un and pw, can connect to that ISP.

Problem 2)
We go with another friend and buy a new motherboard, processor and memory. I assemble everything. Nothing happens. Everything has power, psu is ok, fans work, all lights are on including the one on the motherboard, but nothing on the screen and no beep at all. I remove all drives, still nothing. I remove all cards (graphics card is onboard), still nothing. I reseat memory, try other banks, still nothing. Reinstall processor, nothing. Clear CMOS, still nothing. I take the motherboard out of the box in case it is shorted by the chassis, still nothing. I use another psu, still nothing. I search around the net, I find that I'm a victim of the "no sound, no beep" syndrome. No helpful info in the Asus site, just recommendations to do things I've already tried. Only remaining solution is to try another memory dimm, but I don't have another available. The specific memory brand & serial is recomended by Asus itself as tested and working. Problem suspended until I can get other ram.

Total disaster :(

[a_unique_person]

There is no computer problem that can't be fixed by throwing money at it.

You only need to.

a) Buy another modem.
b) Buy another mother board/processor/RAM, and swap them till something works.

I did buy a 'bargain bin' set of processor and MOBO, with the processor already seated in the socket with the heatsink attached.

'That's a good deal', I thought, and bought it plugged it in, nothing, at all. 'great', I thought, 'since it was already plugged in, they must have tested it, but I must have done something to fry it. $170 down the drain.'.

Curious as to what I had blown, I swapped the CPU for another, older one, that I had in another computer. The MOBO fired up instantly. 'OK, must be the CPU is blown, or the BIOS is not up to date'. Screwed around getting the bios update, only to find it was already the latest. Out of curiosity, I put the CPU in another MOBO, and it fired up perfectly.

So, the MOBO is fine, the CPU is fine, but the idiots who sold it had actually plugged it in, as if this was a working unit, but not fired it up! It turns out the MOBO, an MSI KT7266 Pro, would work with an AMD XP2000+, if it was a thorourghbred. The chip they had supplied was the later Palomino. It would not work. The idiots had read the specs, but not closely enough. By plugging in the CPU, the implication was that this was a combo that had been fired up and worked.

I took the new CPU, put it into my old Athlon XP1800 MOBO, that ran a palomino no probs, and put my old XP1800 cpu into the new MOBO. Finally, I put the old Duron I had been using for testing back in it's MOBO, and prepared to go to bed, as it was now past midnight.

Too bad, I had failed to put the fan on properly, because I was now tired and really p!ssed off with the idiots who sold the 'bargain' in the first place. Fried the Duron.

So anyway, check that you have exactly the CPU/MOBO match you think you had. Get down to the nitty gritty details, not just the CPU rated speed, but its version as well.

Then, to cap my day, after wasting hours getting all this sorted out,

[shanek]

Originally posted by El Greco
Problem 1)
A friend calls to say he can't connect to the Internet. All diagnosing takes place from the phone. His settings are correct. The number is correct. We call the ISP, no problem. We manualy dial the number and we listen to a modem. His modem is ok. We change the phone number, user name and password and he can actually connect to another ISP. When we change the number back to his ISP's number, the modem won't dial it. I tell him to read for me the modem log. "Warning: unrecognized response. Hanging up the modem". Actually his ISP's number is the only one his modem won't dial! It can dial everything else! We try to place an asterisk in front of the number. Still nothing. I search in the net and find a command to list "blacklisted" numbers. There are no blacklisted numbers in the modem. Another person with the exact same settings, including un and pw, can connect to that ISP.

Have him hook up a regular telephone to his computer line and call the number manually on that (hook up the same cable that's connected to the modem now). If he hears a modem on the other end, then he needs a new modem. If not, check the cable, line, etc.

Problem 2)
We go with another friend and buy a new motherboard, processor and memory. I assemble everything. Nothing happens. Everything has power, psu is ok, fans work, all lights are on including the one on the motherboard, but nothing on the screen and no beep at all.

1) Make sure all the ribbon cables have the marked edge connecting to pin 1.
2) Some newer processors like the Pentium 4 require a separate and special power connector. Make sure this is hooked up.

You can also try hooking up, say, just the hard drive and seeing if it'll spin up on its own. Try adding components one by one. If it'll work with (say) 3/4ths of the components, regardless of which components they are, then you need a power supply with more wattage. Make sure you get one that covers the power needs of all your components.

If all is hooked up okay, then use a multimeter to read the voltage in the connectors to make sure you're getting 5 and 12 volts from the power supply. If you're not, get a new power supply. If you are, get a new motherboard.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by shanek
Have him hook up a regular telephone to his computer line and call the number manually on that (hook up the same cable that's connected to the modem now). If he hears a modem on the other end, then he needs a new modem. If not, check the cable, line, etc.

I already did that, through the same phone line. A modem was there. Besides, he can connect to other ISPs with the same modem and line.

Originally posted by shanek
1) Make sure all the ribbon cables have the marked edge connecting to pin 1.

Yes, I checked this many times. I also used different sets of cables. But even without any drive there should be some screen message or some beeps. Answer from the Asus site:

Question :

I just built a new computer system using the ASUS A7V266-E/AA motherboard and nothing happens when I turn it on: no video and no beeps from the PC speaker. What is happening and how do I fix it?

Answer :

If you are using an AMD Athlon™ XP CPU on this board you will need to check to see if you have your CPU frequency setting jumpers set to the Palamino setting which is 1-2. Upon receiving this as a new board, the default setting of the A7V266-E/AA is set to 2-3 for an Athlon/Duron.

If you experience "no screen and no beep," which means your CPU and motherboard did not work at all, this could mean that the CPU is not seated correctly or a motherboard component is grounded with the case. To isolate the problem, please double-check the jumpers setting, remove all the add-on cards, unplug all the hard disk and floppy cables. Then try booting up to see if you can hear any beeps. If you still do not get any beeps, try placing the motherboard on the table (or isolate from the case) with CPU and speaker only, and try again.

Oh well, dear Asus, thanx for nothing


Originally posted by shanek
2) Some newer processors like the Pentium 4 require a separate and special power connector. Make sure this is hooked up.

You can also try hooking up, say, just the hard drive and seeing if it'll spin up on its own. Try adding components one by one. If it'll work with (say) 3/4ths of the components, regardless of which components they are, then you need a power supply with more wattage. Make sure you get one that covers the power needs of all your components.

As I said, it doesn't work even with no components at all.

Originally posted by shanek
If you're not, get a new power supply.

Tried another one too.

Originally posted by shanek
If you are, get a new motherboard.

That should fix it!

[El Greco]

I can understand the mysterious "no screen, no beep" syndrome, but the first problem is driving me crazy. I have never encountered something like this before.

1) Settings are fine (we can connect to the particular ISP from another computer with the same settings)
2) Modem and phone line are fine (we can connect to other ISPs from the same computer)
3) The number is not blacklisted (checked this with Hyperterminal)
4) Yet, the modem refuses to dial this AND ONLY THIS number. The number is 8962500000. The modem will dial any other number, including 896250000 (4 instead of 5 zeros), but it will not dial 8962500000.

It all happened without any reason, without my friend installing or removing anything. One night he was in the net, next morning he couldn't dial his ISP's number.

Edit: I even used AT&F0 to reset modem to factory defaults, but still nothing. So I think it is a software problem, but can't figure out what...

[El Greco]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
So, the MOBO is fine, the CPU is fine, but the idiots who sold it had actually plugged it in, as if this was a working unit, but not fired it up! It turns out the MOBO, an MSI KT7266 Pro, would work with an AMD XP2000+, if it was a thorourghbred. The chip they had supplied was the later Palomino. It would not work. The idiots had read the specs, but not closely enough. By plugging in the CPU, the implication was that this was a combo that had been fired up and worked.


Strange thing in my case is that it doesn't get more compatible than this: Asus motherboard (in fact the popular P4R800-VM), Celeron cpu, Transcend ram (mobo manual recommends the particular memory). Add a psu and a power button cable, that's all. And it still doesn't work.

[shanek]

Originally posted by El Greco
I can understand the mysterious "no screen, no beep" syndrome, but the first problem is driving me crazy. I have never encountered something like this before.

1) Settings are fine (we can connect to the particular ISP from another computer with the same settings)
2) Modem and phone line are fine (we can connect to other ISPs from the same computer)
3) The number is not blacklisted (checked this with Hyperterminal)
4) Yet, the modem refuses to dial this AND ONLY THIS number. The number is 8962500000. The modem will dial any other number, including 896250000 (4 instead of 5 zeros), but it will not dial 8962500000.

Make sure the phone company hasn't done anything weird like change the range of the extended calling plan etc...Other than that, replace the modem. I can't really think of many ways this problem ISN'T modem-related.

Edit: I even used AT&F0 to reset modem to factory defaults, but still nothing. So I think it is a software problem, but can't figure out what...

I'm leaning towards hardware myself. Try a different modem.

[sophia8]

Can't help with the first problem, but with the second problem of not getting anything on screen - have you checked that the monitor works? (I'm assuming that the HD is spinning.)

[El Greco]

Originally posted by shanek
I'm leaning towards hardware myself. Try a different modem.

How can it be hardware since we can connect to two other ISPs with the same modem and line just by changing the phone number, user name and password ? (all other settings remain the same).

[shanek]

Originally posted by El Greco
How can it be hardware since we can connect to two other ISPs with the same modem and line just by changing the phone number, user name and password ? (all other settings remain the same).

Because.

Hardware problems are like that. It'll work in one instance just fine, change it just slightly or point it to a different place and it suddenly goes blooey. A piece of hardware is a complex and even somewhat chaotic system. It isn't necessarily the case that it'll work all the time or not at all. If one little thing is messed up, it can cause the most bizarre symptoms.

You apparently have no problem thinking the software is messed up, even though you're just changing the number, username, and password. The same thing applies to the hardware. The thing that's ticking me over to the hardware side is the fact that it refuses to even dial the number.

[Soapy Sam]

Solution to problem 1.

Change ISP

Simple when you think about it! :D

[Terry]

Originally posted by El Greco



Strange thing in my case is that it doesn't get more compatible than this: Asus motherboard (in fact the popular P4R800-VM), Celeron cpu, Transcend ram (mobo manual recommends the particular memory). Add a psu and a power button cable, that's all. And it still doesn't work.

Check online for errata for the manual and/or silkscreen. Sometimes the docs say to plug the cables into the wrong header pins. I had this happen once.

--Terry.

[evildave]

Yup. Soapy Sam is correct: The problem rests with the ISP. If you turn on the TV and every channel works except one that usually has a signal has white noise today, do you conclude it's your TV that's at fault, or the TV station?


I've had recent experience with this class of "problem". Seems it's a typical tactic to blame the user's hardware or claim they need to "reinstall windows" when the ISP has problems.

I occasionally get calls from friends and family claiming their hardware is "broken", and it turns out to be the ISP because all they ever do is browse the web and read email. Last month was a banner month for it.

Problem 1: Neighbor calls (in tears) after she talked to her (new) ISP practically all day about "fixing" her computer. Tells me it's "broken". It was her useless ISP that she switched to. DNS and email server was just plain down all the time. The ISP helper blames HER hardware for it. Great. So I fix her computer in one minute by reconfiguring to the old ISP. Then she changes her email on the old ISP a week later and complains that she isn't getting any mail from anyone again. Her reply address is "hername.isp.net" instead of "hername@isp.net".

Problem 2: My dad's computer that I just gave him (my old computer). It will connect to ANY other ISP with its external serial cable MODEM, but AOL won't connect. AOL wouldn't connect. It just flashes the lights and quits. He wants AOL (no accounting for taste). I end up calling AOL. So, the AOL tech support guy (in India or Pakistan) tells me it's my MODEM hardware, and not AOL's "special" (Jerry Lewis "Special") custom dial-up handling that doesn't use the built-in Windows drivers for MODEMs. He claims he's never heard of this problem. Of course they've "never heard of" this problem. Of course he never heard of this problem: I talk in good faith of filing a software bug report, and he hangs up on me.

Retards.

Problem 3: My dad's computer again. On JUNO, they tell him it's his hardware when he can't see pictures in his email (an outlook express setting was obviously at fault). They actually CHARGE HIM $1.99 a minute to give him this sage advice about "hardware faults", because they CHARGE for hardware faults. Guess what? Everything is probably a "hardware fault" for $1.99 a minute. Basically, I had him change to another service (again), and told him to call ME for help before he calls these other bozos.

Conclusion
ISP Tech Support (unsurprisingly) tends to be a bunch of liars and retards. Especially really cheap ISPs. Minimum wage (and below, in the case of India/Pakistan subcontractors), working from scripts. Way cheaper to have the support come from halfway around the planet than pay someone in the U.S. to do it. Long distance is cheap.

Basically, the blind leading the blind, except the "leader" is insisting that he can see clearly.


As for problem #2, it's generally cheaper and easier to get the whole thing built and burned in. I have the darnedest bad luck with hardware components being randomly bad. The local pack&ship place calls me "Mr. RMA", because that's on all the packages I ship. Screaming hard drives, power supplies that don't switch on, video cards that put dancing speckles on the screen, you name it.

When I'm done with a computer, I replace it. It reduces the overall headache later.

Of course, the older one goes to people (like my dad or neighbor) who don't know how to trouble-shoot even the simplest of problems, but will take a stranger's diagnosis from 10,000 miles away as gospel before even letting me have a quick peek at the problem (which is usually solved in a few minutes by undoing something they did from a drive image backup).

So maybe I need to re-examine the whole computer give-away (or trade for pickup truck) notion as poor policy and just throw them in the trash when I'm done. Save me a lot more grief.

[Zep]

Re bastard modem: Have you tried resetting to factory defaults?

[El Greco]

Shanek:

I find it difficult to accept that this is a hardware problem since the modem will dial 896250000. It will dial 8962500001. It will dial everything, except 8962500000. As I am an assembly programmer who has sent and received some bytes to and from ports, I can't find a low level explanation for such a problem. It looks more like some strange software has blacklisted the specific number.

evildave:

Nothing changed in the ISP. The night before he could connect. Besides, the modem doesn't even dial the number. It's not that the connection fails. The ISP's modems don't even receive a call because the modem doesn't dial out. I confirmed that with the modem log. And he has the modem speaker on, so he can actually hear when a number is dialed.

zep:

yes, if you read one of my previous posts you'll see I also tried that.

As for the motherboard problem, I was lucky that I bought mobo, processor and memory from the same store, so I returned everything to their service this morning. I'll hopefully have an answer until tonight.

[Zep]

Re bastard modem: If you are using Hyperterm to talk to the modem, after you dial the number and fail, can you then IMMEDIATELY type in AT and get a valid response from the modem?

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Zep
Re bastard modem: If you are using Hyperterm to talk to the modem, after you dial the number and fail, can you then IMMEDIATELY type in AT and get a valid response from the modem?

I think I have tried that too, but with all the stuff I tried I can't be sure. I'll try again.

[Zep]

Yes, quite interesting. Here's another odd request:

Try doing all the modem stuff direct via Hyperterm, including all the dialing, etc. The initial error you said was "unrecognised response (hanging up)" - it would be rather good to know what the actual response was, I expect!

[Soapy Sam]

El Greco-

No idea if this applies outside the UK, but you are fast running out of likely fixes.

British Telecom has a "Last caller ID" function. If you dial 1471 you will hear a recording of the last number which called you. This is a customer identification ploy. I can have my number hidden (from anyone but the police and BT)- by calling BT and opting out of the process.

However, most dial-up ISPs reject calls with witheld ID, quite understandably. To get around this, I had to preface the ISP's dial up number with 1470.

Is it possible Greece has a similar system which your friend has recently opted out off?

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
Is it possible Greece has a similar system which your friend has recently opted out off?

Sam, I'd think about it if the modem was dialing the number. But as I said, it doesn't even do that. We hear the tones whenever it dials something, but it just won't dial this particular number.

I'll try a few more ideas this evening.

[shanek]

Besides, if he hooked up a regular phone to the same line with the same cable, dialed the number, and got a modem, then it's nothing the telecom has done. It pretty much has to be either the modem hardware or the software.

[Soapy Sam]

Wierd. Perhaps its a psi phenomenon. Meanwhile, back at the merely improbable...

"... the modem refuses to dial this AND ONLY THIS number. The number is 8962500000. The modem will dial any other number, including 896250000 (4 instead of 5 zeros), but it will not dial 8962500000."

Q. When it dialed 89625 0000 do you mean it connected to something? ie the 9 digit number is a valid number? This seems unlikely, as any delay when dialling 89625 00000 (10 digits) would stand a high probability of going to 89625 0000 (9 digits) instead. What happens if you dial 89625 0000 BY PHONE?

Can I suggest adding a couple of commas to the dial up number-
eg 89625,00,000 just to see if it's a timing problem?

[Zep]

I was suggesting using Hyperterm to manually do the work, and see the actual responses. It should look something like this:

AT
OK
ATZ
OK
ATDT8962500000
some error message we need to see
READY

[teddygrahams]

On the modem problem:

1. Search the registry for the phone number, or portions of it. Delete any keys containing the number, carefully.

2. Manual dialing is still possible, isn't it ?

[Soapy Sam]

TeddyGrahams- Are you thinking this is the effect of a virus?

[ceptimus]

Try using an old DOS program to drive the modem. Telix and Procomm are good for this. I never liked Hyperterminal anyway. The old Term program that shipped with Win 3.11 was better.

[ceptimus]

El Greco. Did you try the 'defective' modem on a different PC?

[El Greco]

Unfortunately I didn't have the chance to do more remote diagnosing yesterday or today. Maybe tomorrow.

teddy, I'll try the registry idea. Yes, manual dialing is no problem.

Sam, I can't rule out the virus possibility but it seems highly unlikely, since my friend didn't install anything after his last successful connection, neither did he visit any suspicious sites.

ceptimus, I'll try the DOS programs, although trying to explain everything to someone not very familiar with computers, is already enough of a chore. It goes like "-Now open the explorer -How do I do that ?". Accordingly, I can't try the modem on another PC.


The motherboard problem was solved by changing the memory module. The technician had an identical motherboard for testing, and the original memory worked fine there. This made me suspect a defective mobo, but since everything was working fine with a new dimm, there was nothing more I could do. Go figure...

[Soapy Sam]

EG, I was really wondering aloud if Teddy's suggestion about the registry meant HE thought it had been a virus. It must be a specific command from somewhere which is blocking the modem from dialling that number.

You have to fix this. I'm losing sleep.:D

[teddygrahams]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
EG, I was really wondering aloud if Teddy's suggestion about the registry meant HE thought it had been a virus. It must be a specific command from somewhere which is blocking the modem from dialling that number.

You have to fix this. I'm losing sleep.:D

I am not assuming the cause is a virus, just that it may be possible some program is looking for a specific number, stored in the registry, and blocking the action. I would assume a virus would not be storing parameters in the registry.

[Nasarius]

Originally posted by ceptimus
Try using an old DOS program to drive the modem. Telix and Procomm are good for this. I never liked Hyperterminal anyway. The old Term program that shipped with Win 3.11 was better.

I remember thinking the same thing, though I can't remember why. I haven't had a phone line attached to my computer in years :)
I also remember hating WordPad, compared to Write. Also the fact that it was a pain in the ass to get into real DOS to play games. Thank Ed we finally have DOSBox (http://dosbox.sourceforge.net). You would think that Microsoft could write a decent DOS emulator after all these years, but nope. In conclusion, Windows 95 sucked.

But back on topic, that really is a weird problem with the modem. I have no idea what could prevent a modem from dialing a specific number. Need those error messages at least.