"Tomb of Hermes under Giza Plateau?"

[Orphia Nay]

A series of caves and tunnels have been (re)discovered by fringe archaeologist Andrew Collins under the Giza plateau, and Zahi Hawass is currently exploring them.

http://www.responsesource.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=mQQQQ

Collins says the tunnels lead to the Tomb of Hermes...

Although Dr Hawass suggests there is no mystery surrounding the “catacomb”, Collins suspects that the caves extend beneath the Second Pyramid, where ancient tradition puts the legendary tomb of Tomb of Hermes, Egypt’s legendary founder.

“This has never been found,” he added, “So perhaps it is still there, awaiting discovery, somewhere close to where Salt and Caviglia reached nearly 200 years ago.”


Collins has been posting at the Hall of Maat about this, and I'm currently reading the posts.

http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?6,522621,522621#msg-522621

So it seems he thinks the tomb of an imaginary sky fairy will be found... :oldroll:

He always seemed to me like he thinks he's living in an Indiana Jones / Dan Brown story. :)

[Orphia Nay]

Meanwhile these guys are saying the caves could be Edgar Cayce's fabled "Hall of Records".

http://viewzone.com/pyramidcaves.html

What is it about Egypt and woo?

[Redtail]

A series of caves and tunnels have been (re)discovered by fringe archaeologist Andrew Collins under the Giza plateau, and Zahi Hawass is currently exploring them.

http://www.responsesource.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=mQQQQ

Collins says the tunnels lead to the Tomb of Hermes...



Collins has been posting at the Hall of Maat about this, and I'm currently reading the posts.

http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?6,522621,522621#msg-522621

So it seems he thinks the tomb of an imaginary sky fairy will be found... :oldroll:

He always seemed to me like he thinks he's living in an Indiana Jones / Dan Brown story. :)

I thought he was some kind of outer space potato man....

http://showcase.netins.net/web/lesleyspage/hermes.jpg

[popscythe]

I love this type of thing. By "this type of thing" I mean archaeology, I suppose.

Still, exciting. Hope something good is under th-...

"Fringe" Archaeologist? Hmmm...

Edit for being educated: Nah, probably not. Unless Cygnus is under there.

[HansMustermann]

What is it about Egypt and woo?

1. Visibility.

If you go somewhere in Mesopotamia, most of what you can see is along the lines of one thick row of mud bricks, and hear an explanation like "here we believe is a piece of the city wall of Somefort, capital of King Somebaddude II, razed around 1000 BC in the catastrophe at the end of the bronze age by the armies of his opponent King Onebadmofo" ;) That or stuff that's much later, from the time of the Persians or even from the time of the Seljuk Turks or Arabs.

The Egyptians have the pyramids, and big statues, and huge temples, and obelisks, and you get the idea.

2. It's nice and interesting.

The Mesopotamians had clay tablets and cylinders with ugly cuneiforms. They look like chicken scratch if you can't read them, and most people can't.

The Egyptians had whole walls with nice paintings. They often actually even altered the syntactic order of the words, so the resulting text would look like a nice picture. And had plenty of illustrations in between. Even if you have no bloody clue what that stuff means, it looks nice.

3. It's almost a nice ancient utopia, for people who like to fantasize about that kind of stuff.

In the same age Assyrian kings skinned rebelling vassals alive and nailed their skin to the town gates, and had palaces decorated with touching scenes like impaling a whole village. The Egyptians had peace, and nice festivals, and an idealized version of Ma'at (justice, integrity, social order, etc), and even a form of welfare (volunteering to haul rocks for the pyramids in the off season.) It's like the gothic romanticism's wet dream.

Well, before the Hyskos came and ruined a good thing, that is ;)

It almost begs to think that there must have been something special about it, because, well, it really is a special kind of place and era.

4. Mummies and the whole immortality concept. And generally it's a nice religion and an afterlife that's not entirely incompatible with Christianity.

The Mesopotamian gods were right barstards. Even Inanna, although a goddess of sex and love and although the greeks would equate her with Aphrodite, is a mass-murderess with a short fuse and a serial rapist. The hymns to her praise her for slaughtering whole enemy towns, destroying their crops and poisoning their rivers. And that was one of the _good_ gods.

The Egyptians had nicer gods (with a few notable exceptions, but those were more like our Satan than the main gods to worship), a nice concept of righteousness, some 42 commandments to be nice and just, and not a bad afterlife by half.

5. Magic.

Starting with the 5'th dynasty, we dug up literally tons of spell scrolls just related to funerals, and at the end of it even the Pharaoh starts being buried with a nice spell collection for use in the afterlife.

You probably can see how that would appeal to people who want to believe in magic. And how once you get those in the act, they'll keep seeing magic _everywhere_.

[Marduk]

If you go somewhere in Mesopotamia, most of what you can see is along the lines of one thick row of mud bricks, and hear an explanation like "here we believe is a piece of the city wall of Somefort, capital of King Somebaddude II, razed around 1000 BC in the catastrophe at the end of the bronze age by the armies of his opponent King Onebadmofo" ;) That or stuff that's much later, from the time of the Persians or even from the time of the Seljuk Turks or Arabs.


If anyone gave me that kind of explanation I'd fire their ass
:D
also, probably best if people don't book a holiday out there just yet, its not exactly the Cote d'Azure at the moment
;)
additionally Andrew Collins is about the most ridiculous scam artist out there at the moment with the possible exception of the Grand Negus Zech Sitchin. I heard him lecture once, I had to leave halfway through because I was getting the urge to heckle

The Egyptians had peace, and nice festivals, and an idealized version of Ma'at (justice, integrity, social order, etc), and even a form of welfare.
and they had Oxyrhinus (spelling???) that place where Kleenex were in high demand


Well, before the Hyskos came and ruined a good thing, that is ;)

damned Hyksos, Why, why, whhhyyyyyyyyyyy (shakes fist)

[HansMustermann]

If anyone gave me that kind of explanation I'd fire their ass
:D

But, you have to admit, Hollywood would pay big bucks for the movie rights :p

also, probably best if people don't book a holiday out there just yet, its not exactly the Cote d'Azure at the moment
;)

Well, there's that. But apparently there are (very few) people taking vacations in Baghdad ATM. Yes, I wonder what they're smoking too :p

additionally Andrew Collins is about the most ridiculous scam artist out there at the moment with the possible exception of the Grand Negus Zech Sitchin. I heard him lecture once, I had to leave halfway through because I was getting the urge to heckle

Well, there is no shortage of crackpots, that's for sure. But sorta that's what I was talking about in that post: why Egypt is more interesting for crackpottery than Mesopotamia in the same age.

and they had Oxyrhinus (spelling???) that place where Kleenex were in high demand

Heh. You mean the Oxyrhynchus papyri?

damned Hyksos, Why, why, whhhyyyyyyyyyyy (shakes fist)

Heh.

[Checkmite]

Well, before the [CENSORED] came and ruined a good thing, that is ;)

You will keep a civil tongue when discussing my favorite ancient civilization.

[Marduk]

You will keep a civil tongue when discussing my favorite ancient civilization.

splitter
:D

[Checkmite]

I'm not the one who used the H-word, pottymouth!

[shadron]

A series of caves and tunnels have been (re)discovered by fringe archaeologist Andrew Collins under the Giza plateau, and Zahi Hawass is currently exploring them.

http://www.responsesource.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=mQQQQ

Collins says the tunnels lead to the Tomb of Hermes...

Hurry...Someone go tell the Spartans!!!!

[dudalb]

I am a Hittite man myself.

[HansMustermann]

Hittites are one thing, the Hyskos are another.

[shadron]

Ummm.....Hyksos.

Good catch.

[Damien Evans]

Leaving aside all other ridiculousness, why would the tomb of a Hellenic God be in Egypt?

[Orphia Nay]

1. Visibility.

If you go somewhere in Mesopotamia, most of what you can see is along the lines of one thick row of mud bricks, and hear an explanation like "here we believe is a piece of the city wall of Somefort, capital of King Somebaddude II, razed around 1000 BC in the catastrophe at the end of the bronze age by the armies of his opponent King Onebadmofo" ;) That or stuff that's much later, from the time of the Persians or even from the time of the Seljuk Turks or Arabs.

The Egyptians have the pyramids, and big statues, and huge temples, and obelisks, and you get the idea.

2. It's nice and interesting.

The Mesopotamians had clay tablets and cylinders with ugly cuneiforms. They look like chicken scratch if you can't read them, and most people can't.

The Egyptians had whole walls with nice paintings. They often actually even altered the syntactic order of the words, so the resulting text would look like a nice picture. And had plenty of illustrations in between. Even if you have no bloody clue what that stuff means, it looks nice.

3. It's almost a nice ancient utopia, for people who like to fantasize about that kind of stuff.

In the same age Assyrian kings skinned rebelling vassals alive and nailed their skin to the town gates, and had palaces decorated with touching scenes like impaling a whole village. The Egyptians had peace, and nice festivals, and an idealized version of Ma'at (justice, integrity, social order, etc), and even a form of welfare (volunteering to haul rocks for the pyramids in the off season.) It's like the gothic romanticism's wet dream.

Well, before the Hyskos came and ruined a good thing, that is ;)

It almost begs to think that there must have been something special about it, because, well, it really is a special kind of place and era.

4. Mummies and the whole immortality concept. And generally it's a nice religion and an afterlife that's not entirely incompatible with Christianity.

The Mesopotamian gods were right barstards. Even Inanna, although a goddess of sex and love and although the greeks would equate her with Aphrodite, is a mass-murderess with a short fuse and a serial rapist. The hymns to her praise her for slaughtering whole enemy towns, destroying their crops and poisoning their rivers. And that was one of the _good_ gods.

The Egyptians had nicer gods (with a few notable exceptions, but those were more like our Satan than the main gods to worship), a nice concept of righteousness, some 42 commandments to be nice and just, and not a bad afterlife by half.

5. Magic.

Starting with the 5'th dynasty, we dug up literally tons of spell scrolls just related to funerals, and at the end of it even the Pharaoh starts being buried with a nice spell collection for use in the afterlife.

You probably can see how that would appeal to people who want to believe in magic. And how once you get those in the act, they'll keep seeing magic _everywhere_.

Good answer, HM. :)

Leaving aside all other ridiculousness, why would the tomb of a Hellenic God be in Egypt?

Something to do with the Greeks conflating the Egyptian god Thoth with their God Hermes, but I know that just raises more questions. :)

[Akhenaten]

I am a Hittite man myself.





Prepare ye, Northman. Hwt-ka-Ptah gathers her mighty armies and your days grow short. Resistance is futile. You will be Aswanilated.

Send tribute of ten thousand cheezeburgers and you will be spared.


PS Keep an eye on those Akkadians, they look shifty.


Waenre

[Marduk]

I am a Hittite man myself.
:drillserg
this means war boy

there aren't enough cheeseburgers under heaven to save your ass on this one

prepare yourself for a fate worse than a fate worse than death

[Akhenaten]

Hail Babylon! Well met.

[Morrigan]

The Egyptians had peace, and nice festivals, and an idealized version of Ma'at (justice, integrity, social order, etc), and even a form of welfare (volunteering to haul rocks for the pyramids in the off season.) It's like the gothic romanticism's wet dream.


I agree with pretty much your whole post, but I'm going to nitpick this a bit. :)

I'm not entirely certain that's so accurate. The Egyptians had frequent wars, civil or otherwise. They also had royal incest, and a powerful theocracy. On he other hand, the Mesopotamians also had primitive laws of justice (Hammurabi was a very early example).
Then again, "Mesopotamians" is a vague term. Are we talking about Sumerians, Akkadians, Elamites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Hittites, Mitanni, etc.? I'm assuming we mostly mean Assyrians/Babylonians here, but while ancient Mesopotamian civilizations share many similarities between each others I wouldn't say they were so monolithic. They were pretty much all warlike, though, but then again, who wasn't at the time? :)

I'm not saying you think that, or that you really think Egyptians were all that peaceful, mind you. But I think that in terms of being warlike, violent or barbaric, I'd say they'd give the Mesopotamians a run for their money.

[Marduk]

Then again, "Mesopotamians" is a vague term. Are we talking about Sumerians, Akkadians, Elamites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Hittites, Mitanni, etc.? I'm assuming we mostly mean Assyrians/Babylonians here,
We most definitely are not talking about the Hittites, how ....ing dare you, the Mitanni, barely, generally bronze age Mesopotamia includes Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian and Assyrian cultures,

They were pretty much all warlike, though, but then again, who wasn't at the time? :)
You're looking for a fight are ya,


I'm not saying you think that, or that you really think Egyptians were all that peaceful, mind you. But I think that in terms of being warlike, violent or barbaric, I'd say they'd give the Mesopotamians a run for their money.

they didn't have any money, they weren't that advanced, they just had some decent mineral resources and they spent it all on piling carved rocks in the desert while everyone around them in the ancient world went nuts with religion
:D

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Leaving aside all other ridiculousness, why would the tomb of a Hellenic God be in Egypt?

Maybe he died while on holiday?

[HansMustermann]

I agree with pretty much your whole post, but I'm going to nitpick this a bit. :)

I'm not entirely certain that's so accurate. The Egyptians had frequent wars, civil or otherwise. They also had royal incest, and a powerful theocracy.

"Frequent" meaning a major one in 3000 BC (Narmer's unification) and the next one around 2050 BC (Mentuhotep II's reunification) and the event was out-of-place enough to cause the whole Hathor-on-a-rampage legend? :p

I mean, seriously, even if you throw in the occasional tussle with Nubia or revolt, it still ends up _remarkably_ peaceful by the standards of the time. Other civilizations had yearly wars.

Now I'm not saying it was an utopia by the standards of our modern times, but by the standards of the time it was pretty remarkable.

On he other hand, the Mesopotamians also had primitive laws of justice (Hammurabi was a very early example).

And the Egyptians had the Ma'at concept which extended over far more than just punishing crimes. It also dictated such stuff as how much you can tax the peasants based on the innundation level, so they'd have not only enough left to eat but also for 4 litres of beer a day.

Again, not perfect by our standards, but it wasn't a lawless place either.

Then again, "Mesopotamians" is a vague term. Are we talking about Sumerians, Akkadians, Elamites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Hittites, Mitanni, etc.? I'm assuming we mostly mean Assyrians/Babylonians here, but while ancient Mesopotamian civilizations share many similarities between each others I wouldn't say they were so monolithic. They were pretty much all warlike, though, but then again, who wasn't at the time? :)

Bingo, really. Take your pick of civilization in Mesopotamia at the time, and they fought like crazy.

As for who wasn't, well, Egypt between Narmer and the New Kingdom era was just as much bottled in by the desert as it was protected by it from the outside invaders. They pretty much didn't have anyone to attack.

Mind you, not that it's some big merit to be peaceful for lack of targets, but it did create a culture that wasn't particularly obsessed with war, lost its city walls, and had only a minimal and thoroughly obsolete army when the Hyskos showed up.

Of course, that would all change when the Hyskos proved that you _can_ move and supply an army through the desert.

I'm not saying you think that, or that you really think Egyptians were all that peaceful, mind you. But I think that in terms of being warlike, violent or barbaric, I'd say they'd give the Mesopotamians a run for their money.

Again, depends on the era. New Kingdom, sure, they had tasted blood and were out for more. Before that, not so much.

And even in the New Kingdom, most of the time the army was minimal compared to the total population. At Kadesh for example, they had a total of twenty thousand troops in four divisions, out of a few millions. Even taking the minimum population estimates, Egypt's great army was at most 1% of the population. It doesn't strike me as much, by the standards of the time.

By comparison, across the sea and some 1000 years later, it wasn't uncommon for some Greek city states to field the entire free male population in some battles.

[Slayhamlet]

Leaving aside all other ridiculousness, why would the tomb of a Hellenic God be in Egypt?

Because Egypt was conquered by Greeks and ruled over by a Greek dynasty for over 300 years? We're talking about a syncretic god here, a combination of the Greek Hermes and Egyptian Thoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth), called Hermes Trismegistus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_Trismegistus).

[HansMustermann]

Just felt like adding that some things don't seem to me like that clear-cut wrong, or not wronger than what other people had.

1. Royal incest was also religious in nature, tracing its origins to the gods Nut and Geb. The Egyptians didn't consider it something bad. In fact, in a lot of the poorer households too the spouses called each other "brother" and "sister", although actual incest was a lot rarer in that class.

At any rate, from the point of view of a peasant, I don't think you had any reason to feel oppressed and unhappy because the Pharaoh married his sister. Between getting attacked yearly and being ruled by an inbred dynasty, hey, I'd take the inbred dynasty even today :p

2. Powerful theocracy... well, that they had, but... as opposed to whom, exactly? :p

Most of the early Sumerian _and_ semitic rulers in Mesopotamia claimed some kind of divine right or another.

To pick the Akkadians as a random example, and I'm sure Marduk will correct me if I'm wrong: Sargon the Great calls himself "the anointed priest of Anu" and "the great ensi of Enlil". (Ensi could mean a priest or a vassal ruler, hence he probably subordinates himself directly to Enlil.) He also appointed his daugher, the famous Enheduanna, as high priestess of Inanna, to boost his power that way. There is a probability he'd have to enact the divine marriage with her yearly, so there's royal incest for you too.

Even as late as Cyrus, he (although a devout zoroastrian) has to proclaim himself as more loved by the Babylonian gods than the king he just deposed, to justify his right to rule.

If anything, in Egypt the powerful priesthood could act as a sort of a (weak) counter-balance to the Pharaoh's power, and the religion certainly put limits even on the Pharaoh's power. Even a Pharaoh could only deviate so far from the rules given by the Gods themselves, before people started wondering if he really is one of them.

Well, except if he pulled an Akhenaten maneuver. (Hi, Akhenaten;))

[Damien Evans]

Because Egypt was conquered by Greeks and ruled over by a Greek dynasty for over 300 years? We're talking about a syncretic god here, a combination of the Greek Hermes and Egyptian Thoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth), called Hermes Trismegistus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_Trismegistus).

That may be so, but it's got naught to do with Giza, which was all done 2000 years earlier.

[popscythe]

Maybe he died while on holiday?

Your title should be "One liner swiss army knife". I chortled.

[Orphia Nay]

Because Egypt was conquered by Greeks and ruled over by a Greek dynasty for over 300 years? We're talking about a syncretic god here, a combination of the Greek Hermes and Egyptian Thoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth), called Hermes Trismegistus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_Trismegistus).

Thanks for those links.

What's odd is this, from the first link in my OP:

Although Dr Hawass suggests there is no mystery surrounding the “catacomb”, Collins suspects that the caves extend beneath the Second Pyramid, where ancient tradition puts the legendary tomb of Tomb of Hermes, Egypt’s legendary founder.

Wouldn't the founder have been called Thoth, back in the pre-Greco-Roman period?

I guess they're getting their eras very confused, because according to this Youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec8K366fu1E) of Collins, the legend of the Tomb of Hermes comes from the Sabian tradition, ~400-900AD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabians
http://sabians.totallyexplained.com/

[HansMustermann]

Well, if you want the _Egyptian_ name, it was actually Djehuty. Well, actually, dhwty, probably pronounced Dihauti. According to at least one historian, it's based on a very old name for the ibis, dhw.

"Thoth" is already a greek version of it (though similar forms would evolve in Egyptian too), so technically it's no more authentic than Hermes. ETA: basically that's how the Greeks transliterated "dhwt".

The association with Hermes was actually done by the Greeks before the Ptolemaic dynasty IIRC, because he was all smart and scribe of the gods too. Although unlike Hermes he was not a messenger. The Trismegistos part is a greek translation of one of the titles of Djehuty.

I'm also not aware of the early Egyptians crediting anyone else than Narmer with founding Egypt.

[Akhenaten]

Gee I envy your ability with the ancient languages, Hans. It's a real treat to read your insights though.


Thank you.

[lionking]

I think we should leave this thread to the Mesopotanian God and Egyptian Phoraoh to fight it out. :)

[Orphia Nay]

Seconded. Thanks, Hans. :) I also stand corrected about the name Thoth.

I'm also not aware of the early Egyptians crediting anyone else than Narmer with founding Egypt.

Extremely good point.

[HansMustermann]

Heh. I'm flattered, but really, I can't read any of that stuff myself. Luckily there are smarter people than myself who translated it though :p

[Elizabeth I]

Well, if you want the _Egyptian_ name, it was actually Djehuty. Well, actually, dhwty, probably pronounced Dihauti. According to at least one historian, it's based on a very old name for the ibis, dhw.



It looks like Egypt was actually founded by people from Wales, although in that case I would expect the names to be longer, and have more double ls in them.

[Akhenaten]

You obviously haven't read the signature on the Amwaarnaafhlggwys Llllletters.


Rehoraaktytytynepherllanphwillikeperurewwaanreghla ffskopiwgwaakhenaatenw

[Akhenaten]

Cardiff

Cairo


Hmm.

[HansMustermann]

It looks like Egypt was actually founded by people from Wales, although in that case I would expect the names to be longer, and have more double ls in them.

Nah, see, Egyptian is actually the opposite of Celtic. It's the stuff that if you add to Celtic, they annihilate in a giant explosion and you're left with a big glassy crater. Scholars still ponder whether Sodom and Gommorah happened when an Egyptian met a slave from Gaul there ;)

Egyptians (like the early Hebrews) weren't much into writing vowels. Can't blame them, actually ;) So their words are written much shorter than they actually sound.

Celtic on the other hand... I still think it was invented as a way to cheat at Scrabble ;)

[Checkmite]

You obviously haven't read the signature on the Amwaarnaafhlggwys Llllletters.


Rehoraaktytytynepherllanphwillikeperurewwaanreghla ffskopiwgwaakhenaatenw

Wow, that's a good point. If you actually transliterate all the phonetic compliments along with the bi- and triliterals, the language starts to look remarkably Welsh-like!

[Checkmite]

I really don't think the Egyptians considered Thoth to be the "founder" of Egypt. He's not in the Ennead. In fact, I don't think the Egyptians ever entertained the concept of Egypt having been at some point "founded". It just...was. "Created", sure - but again, that's what the Nine were for.

[Akhenaten]

Yup. That's the way I've understood it. Before Narmer's time there was nowhere for a founder to come from. The only mention I recall of any earlier origins are vague references to the South, somewhere, but these might have just been speculation.

[Elizabeth I]

Cardiff

Cairo


Hmm.

You see?

[Lensman]

Cardiff Caerdydd

Cairo


Hmm.

Fixed it for you

[Akhenaten]

My apologies. I speak a very rough dialect of Ancient Egyptian Welsh from the Second Nome.

To tell the truth, I think some of those people down in Edfu aren't really Welsh at all.

[Damien Evans]

Because Egypt was conquered by Greeks and ruled over by a Greek dynasty for over 300 years? We're talking about a syncretic god here, a combination of the Greek Hermes and Egyptian Thoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth), called Hermes Trismegistus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_Trismegistus).

And The Ptolemies have what to do with 4th dynasty Egypt, when The Pyramids were built?

[Damien Evans]

Nah, see, Egyptian is actually the opposite of Celtic. It's the stuff that if you add to Celtic, they annihilate in a giant explosion and you're left with a big glassy crater. Scholars still ponder whether Sodom and Gommorah happened when an Egyptian met a slave from Gaul there ;)

Egyptians (like the early Hebrews) weren't much into writing vowels. Can't blame them, actually ;) So their words are written much shorter than they actually sound.

Celtic on the other hand... I still think it was invented as a way to cheat at Scrabble ;)

'na s achlysur ni beunydd enilla amdani.

Gwisga t 'n weithredol areithia Celtic ai Cymraeg , namyn fel all bod 'n weledig chan 'm enwa , 'm cefndir 'n ddiau ydy Cymraeg

[HansMustermann]

And The Ptolemies have what to do with 4th dynasty Egypt, when The Pyramids were built?

Pretty much that the average wooist can't tell his arse from his elbow, much less the Ptolemys from the 4th dynasty or even from Narmer :p

[dudalb]

:drillserg
this means war boy

there aren't enough cheeseburgers under heaven to save your ass on this one

prepare yourself for a fate worse than a fate worse than death


This upcoming game might interest some here:

http://www.gmtgames.com/p-272-chariots-of-fire.aspx

Click on the "Sneak Peeks" to see samples of the counters and maps.

[Damien Evans]

Pretty much that the average wooist can't tell his arse from his elbow, much less the Ptolemys from the 4th dynasty or even from Narmer :p

Touché

[Akhenaten]

Horus Arselbownarmer was one of the lesser known Pharaohs of the First Dynasty.

[Skeptic]

my apologies. I speak a very rough dialect of ancient egyptian welsh from the second nome.

To tell the truth, i think some of those people down in edfu aren't really welsh at all.

racist!

[Skeptic]

'na s achlysur ni beunydd enilla amdani.

Gwisga t 'n weithredol areithia Celtic ai Cymraeg , namyn fel all bod 'n weledig chan 'm enwa , 'm cefndir 'n ddiau ydy Cymraeg

Aval hu tzodek be'kesher le'ivrit! Ivrit be'emet nichtevet bli tnu'ot, cacha se kashe lichtov ota be'otiyot angliyot bli lehitbalbel...

[Skeptic]

In the same age Assyrian kings skinned rebelling vassals alive and nailed their skin to the town gates, and had palaces decorated with touching scenes like impaling a whole village.

The ancient comedy trope, Monyus Pythonus, had a huge hit with their "Never be Rude to an Assyrian" popular song.

The Mesopotamian gods were right barstards. Even Inanna, although a goddess of sex and love and although the greeks would equate her with Aphrodite, is a mass-murderess with a short fuse and a serial rapist.

You're saying that like it's a BAD thing.

[Skeptic]

Well, if you want the _Egyptian_ name, it was actually Djehuty. Well, actually, dhwty, probably pronounced Dihauti. According to at least one historian, it's based on a very old name for the ibis, dhw.

Seriously, a dhw in biblical Hebrew seems to be some sort of big bird, too.

[Skeptic]

Folks -- about the founding of Egypt: Egypt was 3500 years old when the Greeks conquered it. Naturally they imported their own legends about how it all began in the 300 years the stuck around there. That there is a legend about the foundation of Egypt doesn't mean the legend is as old as the founder. It's perfectly legitimate to call Hermes "Egypt's legendary founder", although it would perhaps avoid confusion if they pointed out the legend is relatively recent.

Also, I am giving the article the benefit of the doubt. Many places are known as "the temple of Dagon" or "the burial place of Buddha" or "the birthplace of the God Zeus" or whatever. It might be just a name. It doesn't mean that archeologists excavating such sites think an actual Greek God is buried (h'm -- aren't they supposed to be immortal?!), born, or lives there.

In fact it is quite common in many societies to erect, or worship, certain old ruins as "the grave of" this or that historical (or quasi-historical, or legendary) figure. In Israel alone we've got the "tombs" of about a dozen or two ancient biblical characters -- including Rachel, Joseph (from Egypt, not Jesus' relation), Jesus, a dozen Talmudic sages (thought these might actually be genuine, for all we know), and various Muslim and Christian holy men and/or saints.

[HansMustermann]

Well, it seems odd though to look for Hermes under a pyramid built some 2500 years (give or take) before that legend.

[Lucian]

Ahem. This is my theory. Ahem. It is mine. This is my theory that is mine:

Hermes was the messenger of the gods. Perhaps he was shot down over Egypt by, oh I don't know, let's say the aliens. That's why his tomb is there.

Ahem. This is the theory that belongs to me and is my theory that is mine. Ahem. (http://www.skepticfiles.org/en001/monty33.htm)

[Akhenaten]

It's all falling into place.

Hermes was flying to Punt in a Gayrodeo blimp and was shot down by an F4 Pharaohantom with rearward-looking radar and AIM 9L Sethwinder missiles.

[Lucian]

It's all falling into place.

Hermes was flying to Punt in a Gayrodeo blimp and was shot down by an F4 Pharaohantom with rear-looking radar and AIM 9L Sethwinder missiles.

Errr, yeah, that's it.

[Akhenaten]

If my addendum to your theory doesn't make sense, you may not be up to date with the latest evidence from the 'UFOs: The Research, the Evidence' thread.

Of course, if you have read that thread, it still won't make any sense, but at least you'll see that I'm not actually the one making this stuff up.


;)

[Lucian]

If my addendum to your theory doesn't make sense, you may not be up to date with the latest evidence from the 'UFOs: The Research, the Evidence' thread.

Of course, if you have read that thread, it still won't make any sense, but at least you'll see that I'm not actually the one making this stuff up.


;)

I must admit the size of that thread has daunted me somewhat.

[Akhenaten]

:) Prepare to be undaunted!


Here is a summary of the evidence so far presented:























.