Jesse Ventura 9/11 Conspiracy Theories On TruTV

[Walter Ego]

Ventura took on 9/11 conspiracies on his new show on TruTv. The 9/11 episode was aired last Wednesday, December 9.

The TruTV Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura website is here (http://www.trutv.com/shows/conspiracy_theory/episodes/index.html).

The entire show on 9/11 can be viewed on my blog here (http://911vids.blogspot.com/2009/12/trutv-jesse-ventura-examines-911.html).

(For those wondering, the original thread on this topic is in AAH here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161681). Let's hope this one fairs better.)

[Algebra34]

Ventura took on 9/11 conspiracies on his new show on TruTv. The 9/11 episode was aired last Wednesday, December 9.

The TruTV Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura website is here (http://www.trutv.com/shows/conspiracy_theory/episodes/index.html).

The entire show on 9/11 can be viewed on my blog here (http://911vids.blogspot.com/2009/12/trutv-jesse-ventura-examines-911.html).

(For those wondering, the original thread on this topic is in AAH here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161681). Let's hope this one fairs better.)

I thought that the part about the blackboxes was interesting. And the claims about the hijackers being in the cockpit before takeoff considering this article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6892-2004May6
Controllers' 9/11 Tape Destroyed, Report Says

Interesting but not validated in any meaningful way. In any case what if there was a hijack situation going on before takeoff that they thought at the time could be negotiated later on? Only to watch the plane fly into a building? Would they try to cover it up after the fact as to when they knew the plane was hijacked? I know. What if right? Just thought it was interesting.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I thought that the part about the blackboxes was interesting. And the claims about the hijackers being in the cockpit before takeoff considering this article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6892-2004May6
Controllers' 9/11 Tape Destroyed, Report Says

Interesting but not validated in any meaningful way. In any case what if there was a hijack situation going on before takeoff that they thought at the time could be negotiated later on? Only to watch the plane fly into a building? Would they try to cover it up after the fact as to when they knew the plane was hijacked? I know. What if right? Just thought it was interesting.

Why "cover-up" something which was already happening, with witnesses every where & in the planes, who were calling their loved 1's & United Airlines & American Airlines at the time of the hijacking?

Can you explain this 1 to everybody?

That article was from 5 yrs. ago! Got anything that's updated?

[Walter Ego]

This is our second chance on this topic and we're off to a bad start. :(

The issue of the the destroyed FAA tapes is addressed here (http://www.911myths.com/index.php/FAA_destroyed_tapes).

Is there anything else about the Ventura show that anyone would like to discuss?

(He said somewhat hopefully.)

[cyclonic]

I like the comment by Arthur Scheuerman, Retired Battalion Chief, FDNY. on the
Leslie Robertson And Steven Jones Debate video on your blog walter, i think it deserves its own thread.

THE COMMENT.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4207976381510195774&postID=2522667433780189550&isPopup=true


THE VIDEO ON WALTERS BLOG.

http://911vids.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=25

[Algebra34]

This is our second chance on this topic and we're off to a bad start. :(

The issue of the the destroyed FAA tapes is addressed here (http://www.911myths.com/index.php/FAA_destroyed_tapes).

Is there anything else about the Ventura show that anyone would like to discuss?

(He said somewhat hopefully.)

I'm trying to discuss it and told you what I found interesting and what it made me think of. Is there anything particular about the show you would like to discuss? I watched the whole thing. I thought it did a good job but was obviously sensational in it's delivery.

[Thunder]

i bet the show sucked. it was hosted by a has-been ex-wrestler and a failed governor.

[Walter Ego]

i bet the show sucked. it was hosted by a has-been ex-wrestler and a failed governor.

It's sucked canal water. Mainly it was stupid. The entire show is on YouTube here (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0CE58C2F5064B2E1). Have you watched it?

[Thunder]

It's sucked canal water. Mainly it was stupid. The entire show is on YouTube here (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0CE58C2F5064B2E1). Have you watched it?

i don't watch conspiracy theory Youtube videos. haven't in more then a year.

exercise is known to create new healthy brain cells, and I don't want them ruined with truther garbage.

[TexasJack]

I didn't know this thread went down the drain the first time, but I'm not surprised. Again, it was just so fake to see Jesse ask with such surprise every time a stupid truther revelation came up. It made his days as a wrestler look real. He truly is an idiot.

[fitzgibbon]

Scary he got voted-in as a state governor. A bad portent of future elections.

[Walter Ego]

i don't watch conspiracy theory Youtube videos. haven't in more then a year.


The show was not some skanky truther video premiered on YouTube. I was on a basic cable tv channel last week, the same channel were you can watch reruns of CoPs and Amazing Police Chases. Surely that venue must give it some caché? I mean, it's even called TruTv. What more could you want? :rolleyes:

[Drudgewire]

The show would be better if they had Tonya Harding and Todd Bridges comment at the end of each segment.

[DGM]

OK Algebra:
How did you like the "thermite" experiment? Not exactly what he claims it to be ,was it?

[Algebra34]

OK Algebra:
How did you like the "thermite" experiment? Not exactly what he claims it to be ,was it?

I thought it was bizarre. Van Romero? The guy who first claimed he thought there were explosive devices in the towers after watching the collapses, but then later retracted his expert opinion? Why would he even get involved with this after that? As far as the test goes it looked like it burned really hot for paint on a small spot. Is there any history of using thermite paint anywhere? How did Van Romero know how to do that?

[Walter Ego]

OK Algebra:
How did you like the "thermite" experiment? Not exactly what he claims it to be ,was it?

The National Geographic Channel did an experiment to show that a jet-fueled fire was sufficient to cause structural failure of the WTC columns.

Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center (EMRTC) designed explosives to test the effects of burning jet fuel on steel. EMRTC used a bare steel beam because the National Institute of Standards and Technology reports that much of the any fireproofing material would have been knocked off at the moment of impact. Within two minutes of igniting the fuel, the temperature peaked just above 2,000 Fahrenheit and complete structural failure occurred in less than four minutes.

Read more: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/9-11-science-and-conspiracy-4067#tab-conspiracy-vs-science#ixzz0ZWMlUtQ5

This conclusion was rejected out of hand by the truthers. Not because it wasn't true, but because it didn't agree with their confirmation biases.

CGsOkT__M7Y

[DGM]

I thought it was bizarre. Van Romero? The guy who first claimed he thought there were explosive devices in the towers after watching the collapses, but then later retracted his expert opinion? Why would he even get involved with this after that? As far as the test goes it looked like it burned really hot for paint on a small spot. Is there any history of using thermite paint anywhere? How did Van Romero know how to do that?
You could make it six inches thick and you'd get about the same effect on the steel it was painted on. Even Dr Jones admits it wouldn't work as demolition device, only as a fuse to light conventional explosives (lots of them).

[Algebra34]

I really wonder why Jesse didn't mention Van Romero's first opinion of the tower collapses.

"My opinion is, based on the videotapes, that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse," Romero said. Romero is a former director of the Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center at Tech, which studies explosive materials and the effects of explosions on buildings, aircraft and other structures. Romero said he based his opinion on video aired on national television broadcasts. Romero said the collapse of the structures resembled those of controlled implosions used to demolish old structures. "It would be difficult for something from the plane to trigger an event like that,"

Why would Van Romero even participate in this show?

[AJM8125]

I really wonder why Jesse didn't mention Van Romero's first opinion of the tower collapses.



Why would Van Romero even participate in this show?

They paid him to.

[Algebra34]

They paid him to.

Well that very well may be true. He did quickly retract his initial expert opinion and then coincidentally got a presidential appointment. So you may be correct on your insinuation about his character.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Well that very well may be true. He did quickly retract his initial expert opinion and then coincidentally got a presidential appointment. So you may be correct on your insinuation about his character.

So Van Romero works for money, huh? :rolleyes:

[triforcharity]

I thought it was bizarre. Van Romero? The guy who first claimed he thought there were explosive devices in the towers after watching the collapses, but then later retracted his expert opinion? Why would he even get involved with this after that? As far as the test goes it looked like it burned really hot for paint on a small spot. Is there any history of using thermite paint anywhere? How did Van Romero know how to do that?

He is an explosives\chemistry professor and researcher at NM Tech, one of the most highly acclaimed research lab for explosives and engineering.

That is what he does. Hell, I could make that stuff in my garage.

ETA: Notcie how they DIDN'T show the after effects of the Thermite on the beam? Gee, I wonder why.......

[Algebra34]

So Van Romero works for money, huh? :rolleyes:

I don't know. What do you think? Changing your opinion is work for money?

[JamesB]

Is there any history of using thermite paint anywhere? How did Van Romero know how to do that?

Probably because truthers have been promoting that as a theory for quite some time.

[Algebra34]

He is an explosives\chemistry professor and researcher at NM Tech, one of the most highly acclaimed research lab for explosives and engineering.

That is what he does. Hell, I could make that stuff in my garage.

ETA: Notcie how they DIDN'T show the after effects of the Thermite on the beam? Gee, I wonder why.......

All they wanted to show was how much more hotter thermite was than fire. And they did. I could say that the fire experiment they did before the thermite didn't compromise the beam either. Would that convince you of anything?

[A W Smith]

The show was not some skanky truther video premiered on YouTube. I was on a basic cable tv channel last week, the same channel were you can watch reruns of CoPs and Amazing Police Chases. Surely that venue must give it some caché? I mean, it's even called TruTv. What more could you want? :rolleyes:


all the bumpers for the TruTV channel have disclaimers, "not reality" . nuff said.

[TruthersLie]

All they wanted to show was how much more hotter thermite was than fire. And they did. I could say that the fire experiment they did before the thermite didn't compromise the beam either. Would that convince you of anything?

Ummmm wrong.

The National geographic fire example showed that in under 4 minutes in a jet fuel fire the steel would weaken and sag. (which is what happened to the floor trusses in the towers).

The national geographic thermite example showed that even with thermite in direct contact with the beam, it couldn't cut it. (now I have some issues with the test, and I would have done it differently)

The jessie conspiracy thermite test also shows that the painted on thermite couldn't cut the steel beam.

So there goes the thermite theory right? (or the thermate/nanothermite/flavor of the monthite)

[Walter Ego]

all the bumpers for the TruTV channel have disclaimers, "not reality" . nuff said.

Actually the slogan is TruTV: Not Reality. Actuality.

Whatever the hell that may mean. The bottom line is rating and CTs get ratings on cable. What astounded me is how badly the show was produced and researched. The similar crap on the History Channel is at least professionally done.

[DGM]

Not wanting to derail but, this week on PBS Nova.
"Spy factory"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/spyfactory/

Sounds like a good one.

For local listings.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/

[Algebra34]

Ummmm wrong.

The National geographic fire example showed that in under 4 minutes in a jet fuel fire the steel would weaken and sag. (which is what happened to the floor trusses in the towers).


The National Geographic experiment was ridiculous. It's not even what the official version claims.

[TruthersLie]

The National Geographic experiment was ridiculous. It's not even what the official version claims.

YOu keep using this term
"official version" I'd love to know where this comes from.

In the common narrative for the towers, the internal long steel spans were heated, sagged and then pulled in the outer walls which started the collapse.

So we have a steel beam heated for 4 minutes which starts to do what?

Please tell me what the steel beam did after 4 minutes in the National Geographic test.

It should be easy.

[Algebra34]

YOu keep using this term
"official version" I'd love to know where this comes from.

In the common narrative for the towers, the internal long steel spans were heated, sagged and then pulled in the outer walls which started the collapse.

So we have a steel beam heated for 4 minutes which starts to do what?

Please tell me what the steel beam did after 4 minutes in the National Geographic test.

It should be easy.

I'm talking about NIST who claims that the jet fuel all burned up in 10-20 minutes but the building still stood at that point.

Now pile up some office furniture under some steel beams the size of what was used in the WTC, with the same heat conducting capacity as the WTC, set it on fire, use some jet fuel if you like to ignite, and let's see that fail enough in an hour enough to collapse an entire 110 story steel structured high rise. Then we're talking.

[DGM]

I'm talking about NIST who claims that the jet fuel all burned up in 10-20 minutes but the building still stood at that point.

Now pile up some office furniture under some steel beams the size of what was used in the WTC, with the same heat conducting capacity as the WTC, set it on fire, use some jet fuel if you like to ignite, and let's see that fail enough in an hour enough to collapse an entire 110 story steel structured high rise. Then we're talking.
It would fail sooner. Look up how much heat is produced from "office furniture" as opposed to jet fuel. Surprisingly enough it's in the NIST report if you bothered to actually read it.

[BigAl]

I'm talking about NIST who claims that the jet fuel all burned up in 10-20 minutes but the building still stood at that point.

Now pile up some office furniture under some steel beams the size of what was used in the WTC, with the same heat conducting capacity as the WTC, set it on fire, use some jet fuel if you like to ignite, and let's see that fail enough in an hour enough to collapse an entire 110 story steel structured high rise. Then we're talking.

The material in a "office fire" burns at about the same temperature are jet fuel.

[Algebra34]

It would fail sooner. Look up how much heat is produced from "office furniture" as opposed to jet fuel. Surprisingly enough it's in the NIST report if you bothered to actually read it.

So why did they use a pool of jet fuel to compare to what NIST claims happened to the towers? And was that beam and it's heat conductive capacity representative of the towers? It was a ridiculous display.

[DGM]

So why did they use a pool of jet fuel to compare to what NIST claims happened to the towers? And was that beam and it's heat conductive capacity representative of the towers? It was a ridiculous display.
Because the "truther" claim was (at the time) that "jet fuel can't weaken steel". The steel in the towers was nothing special, so yes.

[BigAl]

So why did they use a pool of jet fuel to compare to what NIST claims happened to the towers? And was that beam and it's heat conductive capacity representative of the towers?

No, the truss sections were much easier to heat to failure. Jet fuel and offfice contents burn at essentially the same temperature.

[triforcharity]

All they wanted to show was how much more hotter thermite was than fire. And they did. I could say that the fire experiment they did before the thermite didn't compromise the beam either. Would that convince you of anything?

No, that is a lie. Nat Geo did an experiment with Jet fuel, and the beam sagged, and buckled in about 4 minutes. But, yet, you dismiss that.

ETA: Yes, the Nat Geo experiment is absolutely accurate. Steel beam, loaded with weight, unprotected, in a jet fuel fire.

Why didn't they show the cut steel beam on Trutv? Because it DIDN'T cut it.

[cyclonic]

What about the piled up plane wreckage, how hot would that burn at?

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_02/021chinajumbo_468x351.jpg

WOW,another oxygen starved fire!


http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/compare/docs/afc1.jpg
http://www.airlinesafety.com/editorials/Pics/sal1011.jpg

molten metal?

[beachnut]

I'm talking about NIST who claims that the jet fuel all burned up in 10-20 minutes but the building still stood at that point.

Now pile up some office furniture under some steel beams the size of what was used in the WTC, with the same heat conducting capacity as the WTC, set it on fire, use some jet fuel if you like to ignite, and let's see that fail enough in an hour enough to collapse an entire 110 story steel structured high rise. Then we're talking.
Please help the science reject Jesse calculate the amount of thermite needed to equal the heat energy in the jet fuel, and then the amount of thermite needed to exceed the heat energy of the office fires.


No answer?

There is no answer from the anti-intellectual Jesse and his believers of woo. No clue how to apply math, physics, science, or do a rational calculation. You prefer moronic delusions as Jesse spewed the whole show. What is the target audience, dirt dumb neoNAZIs, low IQ paranoid conspiracy minded drones and high school dropouts?

Jesse will come through and his future shows will be dumber. What a step down from wrestling when Jesse was "The Body"; he should have worked on his mind! How can some be that stupid on 911? And it is sad how people can be dumb enough to believe him.

After 8 years the 911 liars move into the delusional out years of pure stupid.

[TruthersLie]

I'm talking about NIST who claims that the jet fuel all burned up in 10-20 minutes but the building still stood at that point.

Now pile up some office furniture under some steel beams the size of what was used in the WTC, with the same heat conducting capacity as the WTC, set it on fire, use some jet fuel if you like to ignite, and let's see that fail enough in an hour enough to collapse an entire 110 story steel structured high rise. Then we're talking.

how long did the steel beam take to weaken and sag?

It is a simple question.

In the national geographic demonstration how long did it take to weaken and sag?

You just said the jet fuel all burned up in 10 to 20 minutes... ok.

What was the mechanism that NIST said caused the collapse of the tower?

The steel sagged and pulled in the outer walls until they collapsed. Very simple right.

I have never said I think they were the best debunking examples.. but it shows you that in 4 minutes you have a huge steel beam sag and weaken.

Your argument from ignorance is rather amusing...

[Tricky]

Again, a number of posts have been moved to AAH.

Please discuss this topic without personalizing your posts. If you cannot, we will have to consider more serious actions.

[tsig]

It's sucked canal water. Mainly it was stupid. The entire show is on YouTube here (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0CE58C2F5064B2E1). Have you watched it?

Nah, I'm waiting till Jesse tells us "what we don't know" about pro wrestling. Now there's a subject he might know something about.

His hyperventilating style and condescending attitude make him unwatchable for me.

[oldmajor]

Probably shouldn't even be surprised by this point but I watched this and it seemed particularly callous even by truther standards. It wasn't even really about 9/11, it was about The Great Adventures of Jesse Ventura. The scene of the meeting in the war room with Jesse 'schooling' everybody is such an absurd ego trip that it's actually kinda funny. I'd love to see a parody of that scene with Hulk Hogan in Jesse's place at the table - 'what about William Rodriguez brother?'

[sylvan8798]

I saw some of the show when they replayed it Saturday. What a crock. I didn't know whether to laugh or barf. :eye-poppi

"That stuff could be e v e r y w h e r e." - Jesse V.

[sylvan8798]

I'm talking about NIST who claims that the jet fuel all burned up in 10-20 minutes but the building still stood at that point.

Now pile up some office furniture under some steel beams the size of what was used in the WTC, with the same heat conducting capacity as the WTC, set it on fire, use some jet fuel if you like to ignite, and let's see that fail enough in an hour enough to collapse an entire 110 story steel structured high rise. Then we're talking.

Ah, man, why did Algebra get suspended? I want him to elaborate on exactly what he thinks the heat conducting capacity of the WTC is and what it has to do with anything.

[CHANT MODE] Reinstate Algebra! Reinstate Algebra! [/CHANT MODE]

Hey, there's another member with the screen name ALGEBRA who has never posted anything. Maybe Algebra34 joined years ago and forgot?

[tfk]

I'm talking about NIST who claims that the jet fuel all burned up in 10-20 minutes but the building still stood at that point.

Now pile up some office furniture under some steel beams the size of what was used in the WTC, with the same heat conducting capacity as the WTC, set it on fire, use some jet fuel if you like to ignite, and let's see that fail enough in an hour enough to collapse an entire 110 story steel structured high rise. Then we're talking.


You're not "talking". You're showing your ignorance.

What makes you think that a "office contents" fire is going to be any cooler than a "jet fuel" fire?

There is no reason whatsoever to use pieces "as big as the WTC". There's no particular reason to use any particular fuel.

There is this thing called "stress". It is load per unit area. It is the determinant of how ALL steel is going to behave, no matter what sized component it is a part of.

If you get the stress levels correct, if you get the temperatures correct, then you can demonstrate what a WTC sized core column will do with a 2" square x 3' long x 0.06 wall thickness piece of extruded steel tubing.

Of course, doing it right (i.e., properly scaling the loads, moments, etc) will get a bunch of ignorant kids whining that "you're cheating on the tests...".

The thing that they may have done differently was to demonstrate the "safety margin" in the load that was used. Perhaps they should have taken 2 beams, loaded one until it failed, and then loaded the second beam with, say 1/3rd that weight. And then heated it.

Not perfect, but better.

BTW, I've got a question for you. Your suggestion that size made a difference is pertinent (if you don't know how to compensate properly) in the thermodynamics of heating of the beam. Note that the beam failed in about 4 minutes (IIRC). Heat wicking is a consideration.

But tell me something. Suppose the, say, 97th, 98th & 99th floors of the towers are on fire, and their burning contents are heating up their support columns. Where is the heat in the 98th floor going to "wick to", with the 97th & 99th floors also on fire?

How many floors have to collapse for the entire structure to collapse?

Tom

PS. Aw cripes.

As soon as I ask him to provide some answers, he goes & gets suspended...

Any of you other truthers want to take a shot at this?

[bill smith]

Raw Story picks up on Jesse's show..

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/venturas-conspiracy-theory-show-probes-911/

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I saw some of the show when they replayed it Saturday. What a crock. I didn't know whether to laugh or barf. :eye-poppi

"That stuff could be e v e r y w h e r e." - Jesse V.

If that's the case, we all better not drive our cars, there could be "explosive super thermite" on them!

:dl:

I've never seen or heard of a retarded accusation than what Ventura said about it being "everywhere".

Jesse Ventura is "Ace Ventura: Truth Defective"!

[A W Smith]

If that's the case, we all better not drive our cars, there could be "explosive super thermite" on them!

:dl:

I've never seen or heard of a retarded accusation than what Ventura said about it being "everywhere".

Jesse Ventura is "Ace Ventura: Truth Defective"!


Remember that "Rusty Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty_Jones)" undercoating and bedlining marketed in the late 70s early 80s? Yup.. thermite. :jaw-dropp

[Sam.I.Am]

Remember that "Rusty Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty_Jones)" undercoating and bedlining marketed in the late 70s early 80s? Yup.. thermite. :jaw-dropp

Did they use it on Pintos?

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Remember that "Rusty Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty_Jones)" undercoating and bedlining marketed in the late 70s early 80s? Yup.. thermite. :jaw-dropp

LMAO!

I find it hilarious that there's red cars with red/grey chips too. I wonder if the Truthers will conduct tests to see if there's any nano-thermite? LOL!

[A W Smith]

I think Rusty Jones (http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/28/rustyjonescarrustproofing.jpg) went on to become the Brawny paper towel guy (http://ballyhooligan.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/brawny.jpg).

[Arus808]

Killtown has joined the forum at TruTV for Jesse's show:

http://boards.trutv.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=64

Still repeating the same lies he's been telling for the last 3 years

[tsig]

Killtown has joined the forum at TruTV for Jesse's show:

http://boards.trutv.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=64

Still repeating the same lies he's been telling for the last 3 years


He still remembers us:

"1) Nice ad hom. #1 JREF tactic."

Ain't that cute.

[Hubbub]

I watching this bit of fiction now (5PM EST, Sunday 12/20/09).

They sure do love the "Super-Thermite".

[grandmastershek]

I saw some of the show when they replayed it Saturday. What a crock. I didn't know whether to laugh or barf. :eye-poppi

"That stuff could be e v e r y w h e r e." - Jesse V.

LOL! when i saw that part i thought of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzoXQKumgCw

[grandmastershek]

heres one gem of wisdom from the clowns at trutv

" GeneX
truMember

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6
Default Picture is worth a thousand degrees of words
Take a look at a picture of how a controlled demolition team sets up thermite to cut through a column. See the angle to allow the molten steel to run down on the angle?

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s.../untitled1.jpg

Now take a look at a picture of the structural steel of one of the twin towers, particularly the one behind the fireman.

http://911lies.org/images2/thermite_...es_wtc_911.jpg

Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth AE911Truth.org "


i would further note to look closely at how lumber jacks cut down trees. it's so the molten steel flows downward at an angle.

[fitzgibbon]

Remember that "Rusty Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty_Jones)" undercoating and bedlining marketed in the late 70s early 80s? Yup.. thermite. :jaw-dropp

Sorta makes their theme tune make sense.

"Hello Rusty Jones...Goodbye rusty cars!" :D

[beachnut]

Killtown has joined the forum at TruTV for Jesse's show:

http://boards.trutv.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=64

Still repeating the same lies he's been telling for the last 3 years
Jesse sure did attract a lot of nuts. I feel sorry for the few spewing evidence being swamped by zombie truthers.

[Edx]

heres one gem of wisdom from the clowns at trutv

" GeneX
truMember

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6
Default Picture is worth a thousand degrees of words
Take a look at a picture of how a controlled demolition team sets up thermite to cut through a column. See the angle to allow the molten steel to run down on the angle?

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s.../untitled1.jpg

Now take a look at a picture of the structural steel of one of the twin towers, particularly the one behind the fireman.

http://911lies.org/images2/thermite_...es_wtc_911.jpg

Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth AE911Truth.org "


i would further note to look closely at how lumber jacks cut down trees. it's so the molten steel flows downward at an angle.

both picture links are broken

[Sam.I.Am]

both picture links are broken

I saw it before the links broke. It was a picture of a guy putting conventional shaped cutting charges on a prepared steel column and the other one was the same old diagonal torch cut with a fireman in the foreground that we've all seen a million times before.

[Whiplash]

He still remembers us:

"1) Nice ad hom. #1 JREF tactic."

Ain't that cute.


It's like they think that the JREF is the only obstacle between themselves and full victory.. for what, 8 years now?

[grandmastershek]

both picture links are broken

hmmm...that's weird. it was a direct copy paste. could it be twoofer realized how stupid it sounded and changed it? nahhh!


i'll add my favorite part of the show was when jones was saying that nanothermite is so safe to work with that the painters wouldn't think anything of it (paraphrase). next shot: van romero painting it on in full protective gear. the only way it could have been funnier is it was an asbestos suit.

[bynmdsue]

I caught part of it last night and noticed that Steven Jones according to the screen is a "Physicst"

Don't want to be a spelling nazi but, come on!

[Drudgewire]

I caught part of it last night and noticed that Steven Jones according to the screen is a "Physicst"

Don't want to be a spelling nazi but, come on!


Jesse "the Mined" Ventura.

[cantonear1968]

[QUOTE=Algebra34;5405390]I thought that the part about the blackboxes was interesting.

Covered years ago. Mike Bellone first made mention of this in a book he wrote. Then he was exposed as posing as NYFD member for his travelling artifacts show. Then he was arrested (don't know if he was convicted) of stealing NYFD equipment which he was using for said travelling show.

It's like Ventura stepped into 2006! There was nothing that hasn't been addressed and dismissed 1000 times over! I guess "investigation" doesn't include checking to see if there is any evidence either supporting or refuting these theories.

[Algebra34]

[QUOTE=Algebra34;5405390]I thought that the part about the blackboxes was interesting.

Covered years ago. Mike Bellone first made mention of this in a book he wrote. Then he was exposed as posing as NYFD member for his travelling artifacts show. Then he was arrested (don't know if he was convicted) of stealing NYFD equipment which he was using for said travelling show.

It's like Ventura stepped into 2006! There was nothing that hasn't been addressed and dismissed 1000 times over! I guess "investigation" doesn't include checking to see if there is any evidence either supporting or refuting these theories.

Was there a debunking there somewhere?

[Arus808]

that he was told that the black boxes were found? Yeah like 2 days later after they were claimed to be found; they were not the black boxes.

bellone is a thief and anything he has to say should be ignored.

[Algebra34]

that he was told that the black boxes were found? Yeah like 2 days later after they were claimed to be found; they were not the black boxes.

bellone is a thief and anything he has to say should be ignored.

That's not a debunking of anything. That a smear. So what? Where are the black boxes debunker? Are they with most of the plane parts that were never found or identified either?

[Arus808]

That's not a debunking of anything. That a smear.

How can it be a smear? A fire fighter stated he found the black boxes; a couple of days later, a report comes out that states the "black" boxes found were not the FDRs and CVRs from the flights

the fire fighter was not named in the report

So please how can this be a smear?

Bellone repeated a claim from a fire fighter (who is NOT trained to identify what the black boxes look like), but never thought to DOUBLE check to see if it was actually the black boxes.

Is it our fault that Bellone is a fraud and a thief?

[Algebra34]

How can it be a smear? A fire fighter stated he found the black boxes; a couple of days later, a report comes out that states the "black" boxes found were not the FDRs and CVRs from the flights

the fire fighter was not named in the report

So please how can this be a smear?

Bellone repeated a claim from a fire fighter (who is NOT trained to identify what the black boxes look like), but never thought to DOUBLE check to see if it was actually the black boxes.

Is it our fault that Bellone is a fraud and a thief?

Debunk it debunker. Where are the Black Boxes? Shhhhhh

[Arus808]

Debunk it debunker. Where are the Black Boxes? Shhhhhh


they were never found, algebra. YOU know this.

If the collapse could do this to 4 floors, cabinets and tables,

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5989/meteorite.jpg

What do you think would have happened to those boxes?

[Thunder]

Debunk it debunker. Where are the Black Boxes? Shhhhhh

how's that revolution coming along?

new investigation?

:D

[beachnut]

Debunk it debunker. Where are the Black Boxes? Shhhhhh
In a kinetic energy event of 130 tons of TNT where are the black boxes. This is the problem of truthers unable to grasp the value of 130 tons of TNT collapse. Lack of knowledge, lack of physics, lack of a coherent story, leaves 911 truth knowledge free, evidence free, logic free.

No need to debunk the delusions you bring, you have no point to make, you have no evidence.

When you bring something other than delusions you can ask for help in debunking. After 8 years not a single valid fact or idea from 911 truth; a big zero for truthers. Poor Jesse stirs the pot of stupid ideas and gets all the truthers excited; what a big let down after the show, nothing has changed, 911 truth remains evidence free for 8 years going on forever.

[TheDaver]

In a kinetic energy event of 130 tons of TNT where are the black boxes. This is the problem of truthers unable to grasp the value of 130 tons of TNT collapse. Lack of knowledge, lack of physics, lack of a coherent story, leaves 911 truth knowledge free, evidence free, logic free.
Silly beachnut, don’t you know anything? Nothing can destroy black boxes – they’re magic!!

[grandmastershek]

WHERE'S THE BOX OF TISSUES FROM THE SOUTH BATHROOM ON THE 34th FLOOR?! HMMMMMMMMMMM?!

1 lost ok, but both towers? Coincidence?

[cantonear1968]

[QUOTE=cantonear1968;5469071]

Was there a debunking there somewhere?

Why would I feel the need to debunk something that has been debunked for 5 years? I was offering observation on yet another sad attempt to make a story out of this guy.

Maybe a better question to ask is what would could these boxes offer that the 3 others recovered couldn't, necessitating a need to hide them? But I guess that's the sort of negative evidence truthers like to revel in.

[cantonear1968]

Can someone help me out with what Willie Rodriguez said on the show? He commented how the 9/11 Commission interviewed him "behind closed doors", but I very easily found his testimony on Mike Williams' "911myths.com" website!

What gives? Is there something sinister that I am missing!?

[MikeW]

Can someone help me out with what Willie Rodriguez said on the show? He commented how the 9/11 Commission interviewed him "behind closed doors", but I very easily found his testimony on Mike Williams' "911myths.com" website!

What gives? Is there something sinister that I am missing!?
Rodriguez Commission testimony was unavailable until NARA released the records early last year. Exactly the same thing applied to many people, though. "Behind closed doors" is a phrase used to make it sound like something significant is being hidden; now his testimony is available we can see that isn't the case.

[cantonear1968]

Rodriguez Commission testimony was unavailable until NARA released the records early last year. Exactly the same thing applied to many people, though. "Behind closed doors" is a phrase used to make it sound like something significant is being hidden; now his testimony is available we can see that isn't the case.

Thanks MikeW. Maybe I'm stating the obvious here, but wouldn't a rational person look at that bit of misdirection, if I feel like being kind, or lie, if I don't, and not conclude that these people who are being held up as either leaders of the truth movement or eyewitnesses to the actual event are merely perpetuating a story, something they have no proof of, for their own gain?

Since I posted this I looked more into Rodriguez's claims on Mark Robert's website. It seems to me he never started making any claims about "bombs in the basement" until well after 2004 (probably even later). It reminds me of Kevin "countdown" McPhadden(sp?) who doesn't seem to make any claims about hearing a "countdown to implosion" until well into 2007, after the "Mike the EMT" emails came out. RKOwens posted a video of McPhadden(again, sp?) at the large 9/11/06 rally where he actually talked in front of the crowd AND MADE NO MENTION OF A COUNTDOWN!!

Which leads me back to what this thread is about: how can these people be used by Ventura when a minimum of research completely discredits them or at the very least makes their claims suspicious enough not to be used? That's what I meant in my first post about how Ventura seemed to have stepped back into 2006! He seems to be going with every tried and true truther argument that hasn't withstood any scrutiny in 8 years. And, oh how many more there are: squibs, molten "steel", pulverized concrete, pyroclastic flow, oxygen starved fire, fly over, 16' hole, Lloyd England.

I guess we can expect to see a "9/11 show" about fourth episode!

[Unsecured Coins]

I guess we can expect to see a "9/11 show" about fourth episode!

you musta missed the second episode

[cantonear1968]

you musta missed the second episode

LOL

I did miss it! I guess the ratings started to slip faster than I thought!

Are they all going to be about 9/11?

[MikeW]

Thow can these people be used by Ventura when a minimum of research completely discredits them or at the very least makes their claims suspicious enough not to be used?
I expect it's either because a) Ventura didn't do a minimum of research, or b) he doesn't care, though I suppose it might be both.

[carlitos]

He used to be was a fake wrestler in rigged matches with big theatrics. He's just applying that model to investigative journalism. Not a bad idea, really. It's a shame that dupes will believe his tripe though.

[cantonear1968]

I expect it's either because a) Ventura didn't do a minimum of research, or b) he doesn't care, though I suppose it might be both.

I would guess that Jesse is sincere in his belief that 9/11 was a conspiracy perpetrated by the US Govt; I've seen enough of him talking about this in the past 8 years to buy that part. I don't believe he is sincere with this show or the people he is presenting for his case, as has been previously stated, a minimal amount of research exposes them to be at least questionable enough in their accounts that they shouldn't be used:
(I especially loved the Mike Bellone part. We all know his story; but the "key witnesses" he can deliver who decide to back out when the cameras show up;
Mike Bellone:"What? They're here!? With cameras!? Oh @#$%!!!!")

I think Jesse is either willing to use whatever he needs to play to the truther "masses" to keep his show on the air, or, like most truthers, they will knowingly defend a lie rather than admit any chink in their armor.

[cantonear1968]

He used to be was a fake wrestler in rigged matches with big theatrics. He's just applying that model to investigative journalism. Not a bad idea, really. It's a shame that dupes will believe his tripe though.

I don't know how much play it's getting here on jref or any other forums, but it's already all over youtube. Every second rate truther who just finished watching Loose Change is quoting it to back up their claims.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad!

[RedIbis]

In a kinetic energy event of 130 tons of TNT where are the black boxes. This is the problem of truthers unable to grasp the value of 130 tons of TNT collapse. Lack of knowledge, lack of physics, lack of a coherent story, leaves 911 truth knowledge free, evidence free, logic free.

No need to debunk the delusions you bring, you have no point to make, you have no evidence.

When you bring something other than delusions you can ask for help in debunking. After 8 years not a single valid fact or idea from 911 truth; a big zero for truthers. Poor Jesse stirs the pot of stupid ideas and gets all the truthers excited; what a big let down after the show, nothing has changed, 911 truth remains evidence free for 8 years going on forever.

Why are you suggesting that the total forces of the collapse would be directed on each box?

If the boxes were in the plane, then they weren't at ground level to receive the full force of the collapse. You could only apply your clumsy analogy to the mass above the crash zone.

I asked before so I'll ask again, what is the current debunker theory for why the boxes disappeared without a trace?

Or, do you think it's more likely that their existence was not disclosed?

[DGM]

Why are you suggesting that the total forces of the collapse would be directed on each box?

If the boxes were in the plane, then they weren't at ground level to receive the full force of the collapse. You could only apply your clumsy analogy to the mass above the crash zone.

I asked before so I'll ask again, what is the current debunker theory for why the boxes disappeared without a trace?

Or, do you think it's more likely that their existence was not disclosed?
Compressed between the floor slabs. Like lots of other stuff.

[cantonear1968]

I asked before so I'll ask again, what is the current debunker theory for why the boxes disappeared without a trace?

Well, it could be that it was smashed beyond recognition with the impacts.

Or destroyed in fires beyond what it was designed for.

Or it could have been the 100,000 lbs/sqr inch of pressure from the collapse.

But I personally think it probably just got burned up when they ignited the thermite!

[carlitos]

Maybe the black boxes were made of nano-thermite - that stuff could be everywhere!

[A W Smith]

Why are you suggesting that the total forces of the collapse would be directed on each box?

If the boxes were in the plane, then they weren't at ground level to receive the full force of the collapse. You could only apply your clumsy analogy to the mass above the crash zone.

I asked before so I'll ask again, what is the current debunker theory for why the boxes disappeared without a trace?

Or, do you think it's more likely that their existence was not disclosed?

clumsy clumsy bird. It they were in the basements they would be more likely to survive. In the impact zone not only are they in a fire. and had to travel through the perimeter columns. But once the collapse initiated. they were subject to between 77 and 99 repeated impacts with the floors below them. and 11 to 33 floors above them.


http://www.history.com/video.do?name=modernmarvels&bcpid=1767981841&bclid=1799109305&bctid=1604855710

[Furcifer]

I think Jesse is either willing to use whatever he needs to play to the truther "masses" to keep his show on the air, or, like most truthers, they will knowingly defend a lie rather than admit any chink in their armor.

This is exactly right. Much like the Truth movement, former Governor Jesse Ventura's career is in it's last death throws. It's sad too, I kinda liked the guy. He seemed straight forward and a rather pleasant departure from regular politicians.

I got banned from the TruTV website for suggesting some kid ranting about the US government consider educating himself. Jesse Ventura in my mind is now associated with some of the most un-American activities imaginable, including censorship and misrepresentation of facts. Acts deliberately intended to deceive the American people.

[cantonear1968]

.
Jesse Ventura in my mind is now associated with some of the most un-American activities imaginable, including censorship and misrepresentation of facts.

It's funny you say that because I just observed elsewhere that the ones who are the loudest about "defending freedom" are the ones who are the quickest to accuse you of being a shill and call for your arrest, conviction & imprisonment and/or execution with absolutely no evidence to base it on! Nice Free Society! As long as you do what they say!

I don't have a problem with someone who questions 9/11. They can conduct all the investigations on their own that they want. What I never understood is how they equate possessing the ability relieve them of whatever delusion they have with suppressing freedom!!??

[A W Smith]

I got banned from the TruTV website for suggesting some kid ranting about the US government consider educating himself. Jesse Ventura in my mind is now associated with some of the most un-American activities imaginable, including censorship and misrepresentation of facts. Acts deliberately intended to deceive the American people.


Me too. LOL it degenerated into nothing more that a youtube comment debate. When the hosts saw how we made complete asses out of the fans and show, they had to cut us loose.

[cantonear1968]

I agree with your comments about Ventura being a politician outside the box. But I really cannot take anything about this show seriously. Not just because of the subject matter but because the show I watched was ridiculous in its pandering. From the fake "skeptic" on his staff (kind of the like the "liberal" Colmes on Fox News) to his skulking around the docks to get a shot of the WTC steel! With the "dust they don't want you to see!"

[Arus808]

actually, im still on there; was "banned" for a short time due to a confusion over the holiday hiatus they had on the board, since I was reporting spammers, and the moderator "banned" me thinking that I was a spammer. emailed to get the ban lifted with a response from the moderator about the confusion.

I even asked the moderator if what the debunkers were doing on the Jesse forum was in violation and they said no. The only thing that they don't like is of course name calling and harassing, and threats of violence. You can appeal your ban if you provide your side of the argument. I haven't posted in a while, since I had better things to do on my holiday vacation than to fight with idiots on their forums (which only has 300 posts).

May have to pop my head in for a bit, to fight some of the more, repeated long debunked claims.

Killtown is there too, so there has to be some active debunking to stop his lies.

[A W Smith]

actually, im still on there; was "banned" for a short time due to a confusion over the holiday hiatus they had on the board, since I was reporting spammers, and the moderator "banned" me thinking that I was a spammer. emailed to get the ban lifted with a response from the moderator about the confusion.

I even asked the moderator if what the debunkers were doing on the Jesse forum was in violation and they said no. The only thing that they don't like is of course name calling and harassing, and threats of violence. You can appeal your ban if you provide your side of the argument. I haven't posted in a while, since I had better things to do on my holiday vacation than to fight with idiots on their forums (which only has 300 posts).

May have to pop my head in for a bit, to fight some of the more, repeated long debunked claims.

Killtown is there too, so there has to be some active debunking to stop his lies.

I'm content to let them stew in their sewer. My banning freed me up to explore other forum subjects regarding work, vehicles, and hobbies i enjoy. A tee-vee showed geared to promote conspiracy theories is not going to attract critical thinkers. Debunking them in such a forum is like trying to keep flies off feces. May as well let it decompose. The show will be gone by 2011, Count on it. Then the maggots will search for a fresh steaming loaf to lay their eggs on.

[cantonear1968]

Well, I just saw the boys on Mythbusters reference this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNx_f6DoyPg

I guess this will be the next scenario leaped on by Jones/ Gage et al. Apparently "they" loaded ice around all the columns before they lit off the thermite!

[Walter Ego]

Ventura's aggressively stupid show is god-awful even by the low standards of trash tv. It sucks canal water.

The odd thing about the episodes I've seen is that Ventura seems to have been dropped into the show and has very little to do with producing the content. In the show on HAARP he admitted (on air, mind you) that he had only heard about HAARP a week before filming began when he read the "research."

One must conclude that Venture is (a.) a complete idiot or (b.) that he doesn't mind looking like a complete idiot on national tv is the paycheck is big enough.

Here a review of one episode from the highly recommended Leaving Alex Jonestown (http://leavingalexjonestown.blogspot.com/) blog.

Watch this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoK3lwi1Rg4)of Alex Jones talking about the New World Order depopulation agenda on Jesse Ventura's TV show Conspiracy Theory, then tell me if that isn't the hokiest piece of television you've seen in a long time. Jones is described as Ventura's "source". They meet "privately" in a bar, surrounded by a film crew. Jones lays out an abridged version of his theory that They - represented in this particular show by the Bilderberg Group - want to kill 80% of us (I guess 99% was too scary even for a cable channel), without giving a single source for his information. Ventura pretends he's hearing all this for the first time. Then, rather than asking any hardball questions about this stuff, he says, "So it's like The Godfather?".

Conspiracy Theory airs on TruTV, formerly Court TV. Instead of getting trial coverage and recaps of famous trials, we're now getting conspiracy theories from professional paranoids. Yet Jones complains on the show that They control our culture and our media for Their own ends?

By the way, TruTV is owned by Turner Broadcasting (a subsidiary of Time Warner). Jones has identified Ted Turner as one of the "eugenicists" who want to kill us all. But then, in Jones' world, every liberal wants to do that: During his February '09 interview of Dr. Stanley Monteith (http://leavingalexjonestown.blogspot.com/2009/04/other-dr-deaths-stanley-monteith-boyd.html), Jones told his audience that if you take any liberal aside and mention Margaret Sanger or Madame Blavatsky to him, the liberal will snarl, "That's right, you sonofabitch, and we're gonna get you too. We've gotta exterminate the blacks and the Mexicans."

Edit:
Reading the above quote again I realized that Ventura is pretending to be an uninformed idiot who is shocked, shocked that They are up to all this nefarious plotting. In other words, it's cynical show biz manipulation of a gullible audience. :o

[Furcifer]

I'm content to let them stew in their sewer. My banning freed me up to explore other forum subjects regarding work, vehicles, and hobbies i enjoy. A tee-vee showed geared to promote conspiracy theories is not going to attract critical thinkers. Debunking them in such a forum is like trying to keep flies off feces. May as well let it decompose. The show will be gone by 2011, Count on it. Then the maggots will search for a fresh steaming loaf to lay their eggs on.

That was my feeling as well. I bet the entire audience is a member on the forum, and they generate 1 or 2 posts an hour. From the brief glimpse I got it was the WooTube crowd all over again.