Top Ten Blunders of the Decade

[madurobob]

So I was perusing the local news this morning and bumped into a story with the title "top-10 blunders of decade (http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20091220/UPDATES01/91220004)". I knew I shouldn't click on it. I knew it would be painful. Of course I clicked on it.
Every decade has its mistakes, of course, but one nice thing about the past 10 years' foibles, foul-ups and flubs is that so often they came with neat, two-word monikers, almost like keepsakes: "Wardrobe malfunction." "Mission Accomplished." "Balloon boy."

It goes on to list the top ten blunders:


SEC ignoring Bernie Madoff
Mission Accomplished
Obama Manhattan skyline photo op
Balloon Boy
O.J.'s "If I Did It"
Cheney's Hunting Accident
SC Governor "Hiking the Appalachian Trail"
Janet Jackson's nipple
Enron
"The Adventures of Pluto Nash"


Balloon boy? Really? Pluto Nash? Arrrggghhhh.... excuse me while I poke my eyes out with an olive fork...

I know, I know, I should cut them some slack. Trying to whittle all the worldwide stupidity over the last decade down to one list of ten items is a task doomed to failure from the outset. That being said - lets make our own top ten list!

What do you think should be on the list of top ten blunders of the decade (so far). And for the pedants among us, we'll define that decade as 01/01/2000 to 12/31/2009: The Aughts.

High on my list are:

Weak security protocols that made 9/11 that much easier to perpetrate
War in Iraq
McCain picks Palin
Patriots don't punt, lose to colts, Bob loses $25.

[commandlinegamer]

Janet Jackson's nipple is a candidate, not for what she and Timbo did but for the reaction to it. What is it Americans have against boobies?

[madurobob]

Janet Jackson's nipple is a candidate, not for what she and Timbo did but for the reaction to it. What is it Americans have against boobies?

OK, I can accept that. The reaction was really, really stupid. The nipple itself - meh.

[Eyeron]

Janet Jackson's nipple is a candidate, not for what she and Timbo did but for the reaction to it. What is it Americans have against boobies?

I've personally come to believe that Americans are prudish because of the influence of religion. Plus we're a bunch of control freaks.

[theprestige]

So I was perusing the local news this morning and bumped into a story with the title "top-10 blunders of decade (http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20091220/UPDATES01/91220004)". I knew I shouldn't click on it. I knew it would be painful. Of course I clicked on it.


It goes on to list the top ten blunders:


SEC ignoring Bernie Madoff
Mission Accomplished
Obama Manhattan skyline photo op
Balloon Boy
O.J.'s "If I Did It"
Cheney's Hunting Accident
SC Governor "Hiking the Appalachian Trail"
Janet Jackson's nipple
Enron
"The Adventures of Pluto Nash"

Huh. If that's the list, I'd have to say the decade unfolded a lot more smoothly and successfully than I thought.

[GreyICE]

Very American list here from me, but lets roll.

Enron
Iraq
Kim Jong Il and the nuclear weapons crisis
Hurricane Katrina. Basically everything related to this.
9/11, and the intelligence and security breakdown that lead to it
Bhopal still not being cleaned up
The financial crisis and housing bubble
Madoff
Tsunamis killing hundreds of thousands, millions more being homeless, thanks to really lousy warning systems and bad infrastructure

Order these how you wish.

[cwalner]

Janet Jackson's nipple is a candidate, not for what she and Timbo did but for the reaction to it. What is it Americans have against boobies?

I would propose the theory that Americans have no problems with boobs in general, just not on publc television, but cable is fine. This would also explain alot about cable news pundits. :rolleyes:

[varwoche]

1. Iraq war
2. Re-electing Bush
3. Electing Bush

[madurobob]

Very American list here from me, but lets roll.

Enron
Iraq
Kim Jong Il and the nuclear weapons crisis
Hurricane Katrina. Basically everything related to this.
9/11, and the intelligence and security breakdown that lead to it
Bhopal still not being cleaned up
The financial crisis and housing bubble
Madoff
Tsunamis killing hundreds of thousands, millions more being homeless, thanks to really lousy warning systems and bad infrastructure

Order these how you wish.

Your list mimics mine, but for Bhopal and Tsunamis. Not that I don't find them important - I just didn't think of them. I might also lump Madoff in with the financial crisis in general and call it extremely poor regulatory oversight.

But, I agree it seems a bit US-centric. That's one of the reasons I started this thread - to get a broader view.

[I Ratant]

Janet Jackson's nipple is a candidate, not for what she and Timbo did but for the reaction to it. What is it Americans have against boobies?
.
Yeah!
We elect so many of them!
Janet's, I'd love getting up close personal... :)

[Cainkane1]

So I was perusing the local news this morning and bumped into a story with the title "top-10 blunders of decade (http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20091220/UPDATES01/91220004)". I knew I shouldn't click on it. I knew it would be painful. Of course I clicked on it.


It goes on to list the top ten blunders:


SEC ignoring Bernie Madoff
Mission Accomplished
Obama Manhattan skyline photo op
Balloon Boy
O.J.'s "If I Did It"
Cheney's Hunting Accident
SC Governor "Hiking the Appalachian Trail"
Janet Jackson's nipple
Enron
"The Adventures of Pluto Nash"


Balloon boy? Really? Pluto Nash? Arrrggghhhh.... excuse me while I poke my eyes out with an olive fork...

I know, I know, I should cut them some slack. Trying to whittle all the worldwide stupidity over the last decade down to one list of ten items is a task doomed to failure from the outset. That being said - lets make our own top ten list!

What do you think should be on the list of top ten blunders of the decade (so far). And for the pedants among us, we'll define that decade as 01/01/2000 to 12/31/2009: The Aughts.

High on my list are:

Weak security protocols that made 9/11 that much easier to perpetrate
War in Iraq
McCain picks Palin
Patriots don't punt, lose to colts, Bob loses $25.

When the book "If I did it" was published O. J. lost the rights to the royalties and Goldman and Nicoles family got the money. The book was renamed "How I Did It." Its a bestseller.

[Darth Rotor]

Paul ****** Bremmer and firing the Iraqi Army and low level civil servants who happened to be low level Ba'athists.

Biggest screw up of the decade, in terms of its impact on the US, and on Iraq, where the intent (possibly QUixotic), after a quick little conflict, was to restore a more representative society.

[Safe-Keeper]

Mission AccomplishedWhile the list is fairly... stupid in and of itself and probably shouldn't be taken very seriously, it's worth noting that the "Mission Accomplished" banner referred to the aircraft carrier's mission, not Operation Iraqi Freedom. The carrier had been tasked with supporting the invasion portion of the OIF, and this mission had been accomplished. It was never the intention of the carrier crew that the banner be used as a backdrop for Bush's "we have won the war in Iraq" speech in the way that it was.

Enron
Iraq
Kim Jong Il and the nuclear weapons crisis
Hurricane Katrina. Basically everything related to this.
9/11, and the intelligence and security breakdown that lead to it
Bhopal still not being cleaned up
The financial crisis and housing bubble
Madoff
Tsunamis killing hundreds of thousands, millions more being homeless, thanks to really lousy warning systems and bad infrastructure

Order these how you wish. Surely none of those compare to a woman showing her nipple!!!1111

(sarcasm)

[BenBurch]

Paul ****** Bremmer and firing the Iraqi Army and low level civil servants who happened to be low level Ba'athists.

Biggest screw up of the decade, in terms of its impact on the US, and on Iraq, where the intent (possibly QUixotic), after a quick little conflict, was to restore a more representative society.

Second ONLY to going in there in the first place.

[Segnosaur]

Kim Jong Il and the nuclear weapons crisis

Just out of curiosity, what exactly was the "blunder" here?

After all, there did seem to be limited options, none of which seemed to be decent:
- Military action (with the potential of many casulties)
- Appeasement/negotiations (with no guarantee that the country would abide by any agreements)
- Sanctions (which usually hurt the poor people without affecting those on top.)

So where exactly did the U.S. (or the rest of the world) "blunder"? What actions did they take that made no sense, either at the time, or in hindsight?

[GreyICE]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly was the "blunder" here?

After all, there did seem to be limited options, none of which seemed to be decent:
- Military action (with the potential of many casulties)
- Appeasement/negotiations (with no guarantee that the country would abide by any agreements)
- Sanctions (which usually hurt the poor people without affecting those on top.)

So where exactly did the U.S. (or the rest of the world) "blunder"? What actions did they take that made no sense, either at the time, or in hindsight? North Korea has no natural Uranium deposits.

Work that one out for a second. Oops?

[madurobob]

While the list is fairly... stupid in and of itself and probably shouldn't be taken very seriously, it's worth noting that the "Mission Accomplished" banner referred to the aircraft carrier's mission, not Operation Iraqi Freedom. The carrier had been tasked with supporting the invasion portion of the OIF, and this mission had been accomplished. It was never the intention of the carrier crew that the banner be used as a backdrop for Bush's "we have won the war in Iraq" speech in the way that it was.
Sure, its not the sailors who are to blame for the fiasco, its the administration. The blunder is not the existence of the banner, its the cynical exploitation of it.

[daredelvis]

Your list mimics mine, but for Bhopal and Tsunamis. Not that I don't find them important - I just didn't think of them. I might also lump Madoff in with the financial crisis in general and call it extremely poor regulatory oversight.

But, I agree it seems a bit US-centric. That's one of the reasons I started this thread - to get a broader view.
Credit default swaps dwarf Madoff.

Daredelvis

[madurobob]

Credit default swaps dwarf Madoff.

Daredelvis

No doubt. Madoff just put a public face on the unfolding scandals. Life is a lot easier if we have just one bad guy we can all recognize, instead of having to admit that its the unchecked greed inherent in the system that is the real driver.

[Darth Rotor]

Second ONLY to going in there in the first place.Given "gonna do it," going out of one's way to set the conditions against success is the kind of blunder that leads to Vero versus Hannibal.

See also Joe Hooker at Chancellorsville. If you are gonna show up, don't be a screw up.

DR

[GreyArea]

I think GreyICE has a pretty good list.

Enron ... Tsunami...
Order these how you wish.

But that looks like nine, GreyICE. You get one more!

Very American list here from me, but lets roll.
But, I agree it seems a bit US-centric. That's one of the reasons I started this thread - to get a broader view.

I'll add my voice to this chorus. What would be included by those of you outside the U.S. and the primarily-English-speaking world?

[GreyArea]

I think that we will be better able to see the greatest mistakes of this decade in another ten years. Which leads me to a variant question:

What major blunders in the Aughts might we see then that we are not recognizing now?

(Maybe I should start a new thread, about the blunders of the 1990's?)

In 2020, things like Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" will be closer to forgotten and farther from having an effect on anyone's lives. OJ Simpson's troubles, for example, never effected me or anyone I know and never will (and I have never understood why so many people were so obsessed with this hill of beans.)

On the other hand, the effects of the Iraq War and the financial crisis of 2007-2009, will still be reverberating even then. Perhaps not on front pages, but certainly in the lives of millions of people.

[Cain]

While the list is fairly... stupid in and of itself and probably shouldn't be taken very seriously, it's worth noting that the "Mission Accomplished" banner referred to the aircraft carrier's mission, not Operation Iraqi Freedom.

This has always been a lame excuse. Bush's handlers were masters at staging and the whole spectacle was intended to play in re-election commercials. Who cares if the crew put it up? Bush's people consciously used it and got burned.

[zooterkin]

hI would propose the theory that Americans have no problems with boobs in general, just not on publc television, but cable is fine. This would also explain alot about cable news pundits. :rolleyes:

Freudian slip, or deliberate no 'L' in honour of the season?









ETA: Darn, it's the 'i' that's missing. :(

[Eyeron]

What about the bailout?

[GlennB]

I'll add my voice to this chorus. What would be included by those of you outside the U.S. and the primarily-English-speaking world?

It's a fair question, but a mistake by any other country would need to be mega-catastrophic to compare with a US screw-up. No disrespect intended to the US, it's just a question of proportions.

Leveraging potential mortgage defaults to many times their original value, then trading leveraged bundled insurance packages of the same must take the cake though (even if I only vaguely understand what really happened)

When the worldwide ********* who created the economic mess said "Give us back our bonuses or we'll work elsewhere", not saying "Off you go then. Wreak havoc on someone else's economy. Oh, and make an effort to pay some taxes while you're there"

Afghanistan. Nobody gains from warfare in Afghanistan, except the vultures and crows.

Guantanamo. Achieved precious little that was positive, but wrecked the US image world wide.

[BenBurch]

Given "gonna do it," going out of one's way to set the conditions against success is the kind of blunder that leads to Vero versus Hannibal.

See also Joe Hooker at Chancellorsville. If you are gonna show up, don't be a screw up.

DR

Agreed. If this had been handled correctly, we would still be there, and it would still be a suck on the treasury, but it would be an environment more like our presence in Germany.

[Ohmer]

OK, I can accept that. The reaction was really, really stupid. The nipple itself - meh.

Yes. Really stupid. As I recall, this was the first broadcast where we were told every commercial break that an erection lasting more than four hours required immediate medical attention. I just about spilled my beer when I first heard that one. The nipple seems a bit tame by comparison.

[Segnosaur]

So where exactly did the U.S. (or the rest of the world) "blunder"? What actions did they take that made no sense, either at the time, or in hindsight?
North Korea has no natural Uranium deposits.

Work that one out for a second. Oops?

They don't?

From: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nuke/index.html
North Korea maintains uranium mines with an estimated four million tons of exploitable high-quality uranium ore. Information on the state and quality of their mines is lacking, but it is estimated that the ore contains approximately 0.8% extractable uranium.

[cwalner]

h

Freudian slip, or deliberate no 'L' in honour of the season?


I wi not te you if I eft the out intentionay

[geni]

Georgia getting involved with the South Ossetia war. has to be in the top ten.

[Skeptical Greg]

Very American list here from me, but lets roll.

Hurricane Katrina. Basically everything related to this.



Are you talking about the people who chose to live below sea level in hurricane alley ?I've got news for you .. They moved back in ...

What do you suggest we do to prevent a similar disaster from occurring again ?

Tsunamis killing hundreds of thousands, millions more being homeless, thanks to really lousy warning systems and bad infrastructure

Order these how you wish.More news for you on this one.

Warnings and infrastructure wouldn't have saved anyone's home...

And how was the tsunami disaster ' Very American ' ?

[I Ratant]

Agreed. If this had been handled correctly, we would still be there, and it would still be a suck on the treasury, but it would be an environment more like our presence in Germany.
.
Five years after WWII ended, our family, and a few thousand others with fathers in the military moved to Occupied Germany to live. Germany regained its status as a free country while we were there... 3 years in my case.
At no time were any American dependents at risk from any retaliations by bitter German insurgents.
Nine, and soon to be ten years after "Mission Accomplished" only someone totally insane would decide to move to Iraq and live there outside an extremely fortified compound.
We, OTOH, lived in a couple of houses in the cities of Kitzingen and Wurzburg, were free to move around the country on foot, by bicycle, bus, whatever, and frequently did so.
That such a situation will never occur in Iraq is a fallout of our disgraceful and criminal invasion of that country, which however f****d up it was, is hardly any better now.

[NoZed Avenger]

I bought a boat.

[GreyICE]

They don't?

From: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nuke/index.html
North Korea maintains uranium mines with an estimated four million tons of exploitable high-quality uranium ore. Information on the state and quality of their mines is lacking, but it is estimated that the ore contains approximately 0.8% extractable uranium.

Huh. I did some research and assumed they didn't have any when it didn't show up on most lists, but if that's true, I'm completely wrong. Interesting. Maybe it's because they don't export any?

[alfaniner]

1. Iraq war
2. Re-electing Bush
3. Electing Bush

Those can be summed up in one word...

I.E., a name.

[Denver]

A couple things that come to mind for the past decade:

- Y2K panic
- Hanging chads
- Windows ME
- Katrina response

[I Ratant]

Huh. I did some research and assumed they didn't have any when it didn't show up on most lists, but if that's true, I'm completely wrong. Interesting. Maybe it's because they don't export any?
.
They haven't yet, but when they get it into fissionable form, I bet they will! :(

[bpesta22]

This forum's been around almost the whole decade-- what are the top 10 forum blunders / dumbest posts, whatever?

[Mercutio]

This forum's been around almost the whole decade-- what are the top 10 forum blunders / dumbest posts, whatever?

My guess is we will only be able to come up with 97% of them.

[daredelvis]

This forum's been around almost the whole decade-- what are the top 10 forum blunders / dumbest posts, whatever?
"Elton John totally copied REO Speedwagon"

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=399670#post399670

Daredelvis

[bpesta22]

My guess is we will only be able to come up with 97% of them.

;)

What was the one about killing an air marshal because he had a gun on the plane?

[Prometheus]

Deep-sixing the Jokes thread.

[Cycledoc]

Deregulation was the top blunder of the last 30 years. As a matter of fact (my view) for each of the last three decades deregulation tops the list. Both Enron and the current financial disaster are rooted in the notion of deregulation.

Self correcting markets don't self correct as long as someone can make a little money.

[gumboot]

I don't think some of these really qualify as blunders of the last decade because really all that happened this decade was we discovered the consequences of the blunder. The actual blunder itself happened years earlier. I'm specifically thinking of the US housing crash and 9/11, but there's probably others.

For me the biggest would be the invasion of Iraq, hand's down. Partly because it's a double blunder - not just the decision to invade, but also the way it was handled, as someone (DR?) pointed out.

[BobTheDonkey]

I don't think some of these really qualify as blunders of the last decade because really all that happened this decade was we discovered the consequences of the blunder. The actual blunder itself happened years earlier. I'm specifically thinking of the US housing crash and 9/11, but there's probably others.

For me the biggest would be the invasion of Iraq, hand's down. Partly because it's a double blunder - not just the decision to invade, but also the way it was handled, as someone (DR?) pointed out.

Sure, the deregulation did (most of it), but the handing out home loans to people that most definitely could not afford them really only started in the past decade (hence the financial meltdown is current, not history).

Other than that, I agree.

As the saying goes:

"What is the first rule of warfare?"
"Never get into a land war in Asia."

What is the second rule of warfare?"
"NEVER. GET. INTO. A. LAND. WAR. IN. ASIA."


I can't remember what movie I heard that in, but it def rings bells. lol

[stilicho]

The actual blunder itself happened years earlier.

This one fits that category but since it wasn't fixed the previous decade either it might as well be in both:

My #1 Blunder of the past Decade:

The failure of the international community respond in strength, and with force, to the Congolese Civil War:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/congo.htm

Estimated casualties: 3.8 million people.

[stilicho]

Sure, the deregulation did (most of it), but the handing out home loans to people that most definitely could not afford them really only started in the past decade (hence the financial meltdown is current, not history).

Other than that, I agree.

As the saying goes:

"What is the first rule of warfare?"
"Never get into a land war in Asia."

What is the second rule of warfare?"
"NEVER. GET. INTO. A. LAND. WAR. IN. ASIA."


I can't remember what movie I heard that in, but it def rings bells. lol

It was in The Princess Bride. Also: 'Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.'

[Travis]

For another opinion: The Worst Ideas of the Decade (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/opinions/outlook/worst-ideas/index.html)

The anti-vaccine movement is the "winner."

[BobTheDonkey]

It was in The Princess Bride. Also: 'Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.'

How could I forget that :(

I'm going to slink away with my tail between my legs now... lol

[Pardalis]

Tsunamis killing hundreds of thousands, millions more being homeless, thanks to really lousy warning systems and bad infrastructure

I agree with the response to Katrina was a major blunder, but how exactly was the 2004 Tsunami and its consequences preventable?

[Puppycow]

1. Iraq war
2. Re-electing Bush
3. Electing Bush

What he wrote.

[Pardalis]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly was the "blunder" here?


I agree with you Seignosaur, Grey Ice seems to have a very meaningless definition of "blunder". And the explanation he gave you ain't helpin'.

Maybe he meant it was a mistake for Kim Jong ll to continue on this path?

[Puppycow]

I agree with the response to Katrina was a major blunder, but how exactly was the 2004 Tsunami and its consequences preventable?

Well, I suppose that if the countries concerned had realized the danger ahead of time.

But this is beyond normal human expectations. I'm sure the thought never even occurred to 99.9% of inhabitants of the affected areas.

Now if it were to happen a second time and at least a public warning system, evacuation plan and efforts to raise public awareness are not in place, then it would be a major blunder.

[Puppycow]

This one fits that category but since it wasn't fixed the previous decade either it might as well be in both:

My #1 Blunder of the past Decade:

The failure of the international community respond in strength, and with force, to the Congolese Civil War:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/congo.htm

Estimated casualties: 3.8 million people.

Disagree. A lesson of Iraq and Vietnam is that it's prudent not to get involved in wars that don't concern you. Or start unnecessary wars.
If the Congolese Civil War is a blunder it is a Congolese blunder, not a blunder by "the international community." Getting invloved however, might have (probably would have) turned out to be a huge blunder.

[SezMe]

To try to add some heft to the international side:

1) The assassination of Bhuto.
2) The failure of the international community, as specifically the UN, to respond to the genocide between the Huti and Tutsi.
3) The Vatican's ongoing war against the condom.

[SezMe]

Agreed. If this had been handled correctly, we would still be there, and it would still be a suck on the treasury, but it would be an environment more like our presence in Germany.
Well, I'm here to nominate Ben as the optimist of the decade.

[SezMe]

... it's worth noting that the "Mission Accomplished" banner referred to the aircraft carrier's mission, not Operation Iraqi Freedom.
To believe that I'd have to believe that the lineup of the banner, the Presidential podium and the location of the press photography corps was coincidental. I don't.

[Dr Adequate]

* Pat Robertson on the causes of 9/11.

* Those folks down in Dover. The DI put their own ass on a platter with that one.

* Sarah Palin. Just ... Sarah Palin.

[Mr Clingford]

Letting anti AGW people gain such a hold on the media. The internet has been a godsend to astroturfing, blogging etc. The Copenhagen fiasco is the result. Several decades down the line the human world is toasted. Make sure you're wealthy enough to thrive and not just survive.

[GreyICE]

I agree with the response to Katrina was a major blunder, but how exactly was the 2004 Tsunami and its consequences preventable?

Here, let me quote wikipedia:

Despite a lag of up to several hours between the earthquake and the impact of the tsunami, nearly all of the victims were taken completely by surprise. There were no tsunami warning systems in the Indian Ocean to detect tsunamis or to warn the general populace living around the ocean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_tsunami

Yeah, the sensor network would have been expensive for poor countries. How expensive was NOT having it, I wonder?

[Cycledoc]

Sure, the deregulation did (most of it), but the handing out home loans to people that most definitely could not afford them really only started in the past decade (hence the financial meltdown is current, not history).


Agreed, it happened this decade but has it's roots in our three decade long romance with deregulation.

For what it's worth, to me,the great "advance" was not handling out home loans but bundling them in investments, obfuscating their risk and passing the risk off to naive investors--and giving huge financial bonuses to the perpetrators.

Brilliant!

[casebro]

Agreed, it happened this decade but has it's roots in our three decade long romance with deregulation.

...

Brilliant!

That crisis was not caused by DE-regulation, but by regulations requiring loaners to make loans they knew from the git-go
would go bad. There after, knowing the crepe would hit the fan, it became a grab-whatever-you-can before the repercussions hit.

Was it Warren Buffet who took out full page adds telling why he was getting out of the U.S. real estate market? Ten years ago?

The regulation was the big blunder.

[GreyICE]

Are you talking about the people who chose to live below sea level in hurricane alley ?I've got news for you .. They moved back in ...

What do you suggest we do to prevent a similar disaster from occurring again ?... WHAT?

This is the first time in the history of the planet of the planet that I think anyone has even suggested Katrina and the resulting mess was unpreventable. The levies had been below-spec for years, and everyone knew about it. The Federal Government's response was pathetic. The city's response was pathetic. The state's response was pathetic. It was an across-the-board failure at the highest level. Even if you're an aging bushy, you can still admit that the entire situation was screwed up.

Seriously, in what alternate universe was this response sane?

More news for you on this one.

Warnings and infrastructure wouldn't have saved anyone's home...

And how was the tsunami disaster ' Very American ' ?
...

You're just being an arse, aren't you?

[Travis]

Here, let me quote wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_tsunami

Yeah, the sensor network would have been expensive for poor countries. How expensive was NOT having it, I wonder?

Very costly, as it turned out. But, how common were tsunami's in the Indian Ocean previously?

[Kestrel]

I agree with the response to Katrina was a major blunder, but how exactly was the 2004 Tsunami and its consequences preventable?

The physical damage wasn't preventable, but with a warning system in place the human death toll would have been a fraction of what it was.

The blunder was that countries in the Indian Ocean never set up a warning system like the one that already existed in the Pacific.

[Kestrel]

That crisis was not caused by DE-regulation, but by regulations requiring loaners to make loans they knew from the git-go
would go bad. There after, knowing the crepe would hit the fan, it became a grab-whatever-you-can before the repercussions hit.

There was no such regulation. The Community Reinvestment Act simply required FDIC insured banks to use the same criteria for loans regardless of neighborhood. It banned the practice of redlining.

The majority of subprime loans were made by companies like Countrywide that specialized in that kind of loan, not by FDIC insured banks.

[GreyICE]

Very costly, as it turned out. But, how common were tsunami's in the Indian Ocean previously?

Quite a few. They were in an area that didn't happen to get hit very often. That doesn't mean they were sitting next to a stable continental shelf.

It's like maybe your house doesn't catch on fire very often. But you still have smoke alarms, and still have a fire department. Just common sense.

[ddt]

Are you talking about the people who chose to live below sea level in hurricane alley ?I've got news for you .. They moved back in ...

What do you suggest we do to prevent a similar disaster from occurring again?

Are you somehow suggesting half the population of the Netherlands also should move house because they live below sea level? There's this thing called "dyke" or "levee" which prevents the sea coming in. Mankind has thousands of years experience in building those, and we can pretty well calculate how high and strong they must be.

[Damien Evans]

Very costly, as it turned out. But, how common were tsunami's in the Indian Ocean previously?

As far as Tsunamis go, very.

My nomination:

The CFA and DSE's handling of Black Saturday, in particular that of CFA chief Russell Rees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_bushfires
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Victorian_Bushfires_Royal_Commission

After this and other events in the past twelve months, it is common for locals to refer to the DSE not as the department of sustainability and the environment, but the department of scorched earth, as that is what they usually leave behind.

[Delvo]

7. SC Governor "Hiking the Appalachian Trail"What's some local issue I never heard of doing on a list of famous national ones?

[madurobob]

What's some local issue I never heard of doing on a list of famous national ones?
Well, it was a blunder and ruined the Governors once bright political career. He really did an amazingly poor job covering up his extra-marital affair. If he can't properly manage an Argentinian mistress, how can he ever be an effective Senator or VP?

But, yeah, in terms of the scope of other "blunders" in the decade, this one really doesn't belong on the list.

[daredelvis]

That crisis was not caused by DE-regulation, but by regulations requiring loaners to make loans they knew from the git-go
would go bad. There after, knowing the crepe would hit the fan, it became a grab-whatever-you-can before the repercussions hit.

Was it Warren Buffet who took out full page adds telling why he was getting out of the U.S. real estate market? Ten years ago?

The regulation was the big blunder.

The physical damage wasn't preventable, but with a warning system in place the human death toll would have been a fraction of what it was.

The blunder was that countries in the Indian Ocean never set up a warning system like the one that already existed in the Pacific.
Would you call pinning the blame on the sub prime collapse on the CRA one of the largest successes of the decade? It seems that most have falling for this hook line and sinker.

Daredelvis

[I Ratant]

It was in The Princess Bride. Also: 'Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.'
.
Wallace Shawn at his finest! :)

[I Ratant]

Are you somehow suggesting half the population of the Netherlands also should move house because they live below sea level? There's this thing called "dyke" or "levee" which prevents the sea coming in. Mankind has thousands of years experience in building those, and we can pretty well calculate how high and strong they must be.
.
Only if the "we" lives there.
If the "we" lives in Washington DC and kisses Congressional ass instead of engineering public works properly, then the levees and dikes fail, on schedule, it would appear.

[Pardalis]

Here, let me quote wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_tsunami

Yeah, the sensor network would have been expensive for poor countries. How expensive was NOT having it, I wonder?

It explains later on that it can't and couldn't have been accurately predicted. If you know of a good meteorological system that does, please inform the science community immediately.

[GreyICE]

It explains later on that it can't and couldn't have been accurately predicted. If you know of a good meteorological system that does, please inform the science community immediately.

Couldn't accurately be predicted by our finest scientific instruments...
One of the few coastal areas to evacuate ahead of the tsunami was on the Indonesian island of Simeulue, very close to the epicentre. Island folklore recounted an earthquake and tsunami in 1907, and the islanders fled to inland hills after the initial shaking yet before the tsunami struck.[46] On Maikhao beach in northern Phuket, Thailand, a 10-year-old British tourist named Tilly Smith had studied tsunami in geography class at school and recognised the warning signs of the receding ocean and frothing bubbles. She and her parents warned others on the beach, which was evacuated safely.[47] John Chroston, a biology teacher from Scotland, also recognised the signs at Kamala Bay north of Phuket, taking a busload of vacationers and locals to safety on higher ground.

Uh huh.

That makes sense. Damn, if only 10 year old kids kept their psychic powers longer...

Care to clarify a bit? What actual parts were unpredictable? The earthquake? That the earthquake would form a Tsunami? Or that the Tsunami actually existed, hours before it hit (like the successful sensor networks installed elsewhere predict and like the ones the UN is now installing)?

Also, can you help me invent a time machine so I can inform the scientific community how that network works, before they know?

[Pardalis]

So the blunder is that those two tourists didn't alarm the authorities fast enough? :confused:

Edit:

What actual parts were unpredictable? The earthquake? Yes, to start with. That's one major detail isn't it? You know of a way to predict them?

[GreyICE]

So the blunder is that those two tourists didn't alarm the authorities fast enough? :confused:

Edit:

Yes, to start with. That's one major detail isn't it? You know of a way to predict them?

There's no question we could have gotten several hours of warning. That would have been enough to evacuate many areas, saving thousands of lives.

The fact that you're arguing this when there ALREADY exists a system that does EXACTLY that is beyond stupid. It's like arguing something could never fly without having wings like a plane, with a helicopter hovering overhead.

[Pardalis]

There's no question we could have gotten several hours of warning. That would have been enough to evacuate many areas, saving thousands of lives.

You think tens of thousands can be evacuated within just a few hours, in some of the most isolated regions of the world, really?

[Kestrel]

You think tens of thousands can be evacuated within just a few hours, in some of the most isolated regions of the world, really?

The trick is that all you have to do is tell them to walk to higher ground.

[I Ratant]

I know that when the sea withdraws from the shore in a rapid and extreme manner, exposing a lot of the sea bottom that isn't seen even at low tide, there IS a tsunami coming.
The withdrawal is created by the building wave out of sight, but coming.
Why those living on the sea shores don't know this is astounding.

[GreyICE]

You think tens of thousands can be evacuated within just a few hours, in some of the most isolated regions of the world, really?

The trick is that all you have to do is tell them to walk to higher ground.

What he said. Also, seriously, I posted two examples of exactly that happening.

I know some people choose to live in a reality where each tragedy is an unavoidable disaster, because it's more comfortable than saying that we could have saved a hundred thousand people with a few million dollars.

Pardy, problems can be solved.

[stilicho]

Disagree. A lesson of Iraq and Vietnam is that it's prudent not to get involved in wars that don't concern you. Or start unnecessary wars.
If the Congolese Civil War is a blunder it is a Congolese blunder, not a blunder by "the international community." Getting invloved however, might have (probably would have) turned out to be a huge blunder.

So it's still a pretty huge blunder.

How does the Congolese near-genocide not concern us? I must have skipped that class in international politics.

[SezMe]

For what it's worth, to me,the great "advance" was not handling out home loans but bundling them in investments, obfuscating their risk and passing the risk off to naive investors--and giving huge financial bonuses to the perpetrators.
Another important element of that debacle is that the ratings agencies of those investments were paid by the people they were supposed to rate. Any high school kid could see the inherent conflict of interest in such a scheme.

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
It goes on to list the top ten blunders:


SEC ignoring Bernie Madoff
Mission Accomplished
Obama Manhattan skyline photo op
Balloon Boy
O.J.'s "If I Did It"
Cheney's Hunting Accident
SC Governor "Hiking the Appalachian Trail"
Janet Jackson's nipple
Enron
"The Adventures of Pluto Nash"
I've not yet looked at the source but let me make some predictions:

The list was made by a guy or a majority of men. He/They are right wingers. He/They are above middle income. He/They have no clue what is wrong with their list.

1) Madoff rip off more important than the negligence that led to 911 or the Iraq war?
2) Mission accomplished the problem not the invasion in the first place?
3) Obama thrown in gratuitously.
4) No clue why balloon boy matters to anyone but the gossip columnists.
5) OJ's book and not his murder?
6) Cheney's hunting accident and not his instigation of and bragging/no regrets about his torture policy?
7) Governor Sanford's fake alibi and not the fact he's a hypocrite?
8) The wardrobe malfunction? What? Did this ruin his/their Superbowl experience?
9) I take it someone lost money on Enron or is upset if it led to more regulations. Why would the SEC be the issue with Madoff but not with Enron?
10) And I have no clue what this guy/these people have against the movie as I've not seen it.

[stilicho]

I know that when the sea withdraws from the shore in a rapid and extreme manner, exposing a lot of the sea bottom that isn't seen even at low tide, there IS a tsunami coming.
The withdrawal is created by the building wave out of sight, but coming.
Why those living on the sea shores don't know this is astounding.

Many of the victims were not within eyesight of the shoreline although they lived in low-lying areas. There are some very good media files I've seen where the waves ploughed through built up areas where survivors of the quake were trying to clean up. Most of the videos we've seen, on the other hand, are from tourist hotels with a very good view of the sea.

I would have to count that disaster as my #2 blunder next to the response to the Congolese War.

[stilicho]

The list was made by a guy or a majority of men. He/They are right wingers. He/They are above middle income. He/They have no clue what is wrong with their list.

I probably fit your criteria of who wrote the list pretty well and I doubt any of those would make my own Top Ten blunders list. Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that list was actually written by a squat, bespectacled, lesbian welfare mom who called the first of her seventeen children "Kropotkin"?

[Whiplash]

This has always been a lame excuse. Bush's handlers were masters at staging and the whole spectacle was intended to play in re-election commercials. Who cares if the crew put it up? Bush's people consciously used it and got burned.


It's not a weak excuse. Claiming it was intended to signify the idea that the entire mission in Iraq was accomplished is ridiculous. I'm shocked there are still people who attempt to defend it.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I probably fit your criteria of who wrote the list pretty well and I doubt any of those would make my own Top Ten blunders list. Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that list was actually written by a squat, bespectacled, lesbian welfare mom who called the first of her seventeen children "Kropotkin"?False logic. Just because one right wing male would choose that list does not mean all right wing males would.

But I doubt you could find a liberal female who would agree with the list.

I've tried to find out more about the author, Christopher Sullivan, but all I can find is that he is a Deputy News Features Editor at the AP. That makes him male and probably above middle income. As an editor it is more likely he is conservative than a reporter (just going by statistics of news room employees).

From the article it also appears the title doesn't clearly describe the content. It would seem Sullivan choose the top blunders in various categories rather than top blunders overall. That gives him a tad more room for this atrocious list, but it doesn't change my assessment of the kind of person who would consider the things on the list as top 10.

[stilicho]

False logic. Just because one right wing male would choose that list does not mean all right wing males would.

But I doubt you could find a liberal female who would agree with the list.

This Top Ten list stuff is easy enough to do that I am pretty sure even a liberal female could produce one.

That gives him a tad more room for this atrocious list, but it doesn't change my assessment of the kind of person who would consider the things on the list as top 10.

Top Ten lists are meant to provoke conversation and not to define anything. You throw in a bunch of things you know people will react to. I think all of us have noticed that since profound blunders like the Congolese War and the Indian Ocean tsunami are entirely missing.

[Skeptic Ginger]

From a liberal stand point, all my top 10 blunders come from the Bush admin. directly or indirectly.

1) Failure to follow up on Coleen Rowley's report that foreign men were in US flight schools learning how to steer but not take off or land Jets.
2) Failure to give a crap about DPBs like the one that said, "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the US" and briefs that contained information terrorists were planning to use jetliners as weapons.
3) Lying the US into the Iraq war.
4) Torture policy
5) Gitmo
6) The rest of the poor management of the Iraq war including privatizing it.
7) Letting Bin Laden get away and letting the Taliban regroup.
8) The atrocious response to Katrina.
9) Total mismangement of the economy, awarding contracts to cronies, letting oversight and regulatory departments die from lack of funding and replacements.
10) The attorney firing scandal and replacing career lawyers at the DoJ with Pat Robertson's God lawyers, as well as changing the AG's office into a corrupt rubber stamping agency.

[Skeptic Ginger]

This Top Ten list stuff is easy enough to do that I am pretty sure even a liberal female could produce one.Did you even read my post? I didn't say anything about making one's own list. I said a liberal female would not have come up with Sullivan's list.

[BobTheDonkey]

Did you even read my post? I didn't say anything about making one's own list. I said a liberal female would not have come up with Sullivan's list.

I think what you meant to say is:

"This is not the list I would have come up with."

I doubt you can speak for every (or even the majority of) liberal female out there ;)

It has nothing to do with the author's particular leanings. I would bet very VERY few people in the US would not list, in some manner, Bush's handling of Iraq - liberal or not.

Try taking it down a few notches. This isn't (supposed to be) about liberal/conservative, male/female, social status, etc. It's about the mistakes made that affected everyone, in some manner.

I would say that I don't agree with the list - a middle-of-the-road/liberal-leaning, middle class male.


As for your list, it looks like a laundry list of everything Bush and his crew did wrong. At least the original list is varied and puts both sides in the hotseat.

[gtc]

5) OJ's book and not his murder?

The murders didn't happen this decade and the evidence seems to suggest they were deliberate and not blunders.

From a liberal stand point, all my top 10 blunders come from the Bush admin. directly or indirectly.

There's a surprise. But most of your list aren't blunders, they are just things you are pissed off about.

Mirriam Webster defines a blunder (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blunder) as 'to make a stupid, careless or thoughtless mistake'. This article from wikipedia discusses blunders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunder_%28chess%29) in chess.

[Pardalis]

I agree with gtc, some people seem to have difficulties with the word "blunder".

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think what you meant to say is:

"This is not the list I would have come up with."

I doubt you can speak for every (or even the majority of) liberal female out there ;)You are welcome to address the points I made but it isn't as if I just made a declaration without supporting it. I specifically noted WHY a woman and WHY a liberal would have not agreed with the priorities Sullivan assigned to his list.

It has nothing to do with the author's particular leanings. I would bet very VERY few people in the US would not list, in some manner, Bush's handling of Iraq - liberal or not.Yes, and conservatives are likely to list different things about the Iraq war they fault Bush for.

Try taking it down a few notches. This isn't (supposed to be) about liberal/conservative, male/female, social status, etc. It's about the mistakes made that affected everyone, in some manner.Again, try addressing the supporting reasons I said what I said rather than just your offense in the way I framed it.

I would say that I don't agree with the list - a middle-of-the-road/liberal-leaning, middle class male.Your point?


As for your list, it looks like a laundry list of everything Bush and his crew did wrong. At least the original list is varied and puts both sides in the hotseat.So values don't matter, balance does?

[Skeptic Ginger]

I agree with gtc, some people seem to have difficulties with the word "blunder".The eye of the beholder comes to mind.

[BobTheDonkey]

You are welcome to address the points I made but it isn't as if I just made a declaration without supporting it. I specifically noted WHY a woman and WHY a liberal would have not agreed with the priorities Sullivan assigned to his list.

Yes, and conservatives are likely to list different things about the Iraq war they fault Bush for.

Again, try addressing the supporting reasons I said what I said rather than just your offense in the way I framed it.

Your point?


So values don't matter, balance does?
No, you specifically noted why You, who happens to be a liberal and a woman, do not agree with the list.

I don't know many Conservatives that feel the Mission Accomplished banner was anything other than a blunder. The mission was most definitely not accomplished, the Iraq debacle has continued quite a while after.

You, yourself, claimed the original list was:

made by a guy or a majority of men. He/They are right wingers. He/They are above middle income. He/They have no clue what is wrong with their list.

This was followed by:

I probably fit your criteria of who wrote the list pretty well and I doubt any of those would make my own Top Ten blunders list.

To which you replied:

False logic. Just because one right wing male would choose that list does not mean all right wing males would.


Ironically, you threw the false logic claim at Stilicho and, in fact, proved mine - That just because one is in the conservative, male, upper middle class demographic does not mean they all think alike. Similiarly, just because one is in the liberal, female, (I don't know your class) demographic does not mean they all think alike. ;)

Now, I wonder, how exactly did you come to the conclusion that the author(s) was/were in that demographic if all members of said demographic wouldn't agree with the list?


Your specific complaint about the Iraq/Afghanistan war was that it only was mentioned in one short way, whereas your list had five. All five of which could have easily been summed up with "Handling of the War on Terror" - as I stated.

All 10 items listed are attributable to Bush, et al. and are incredibly centered on happenings affecting strictly the U.S. Thus, I stated that it appears you were simply airing your frustrations with the prior administration rather than listing the worst blunders. At what point did you mention the lack of an international tsunami warning system? Or the failure of any administration (or the USArmy CoE) to act to provide proper storm protection for New Orleans (there had been plenty of warnings prior to the storm - the failure to act on those warnings was the beginning of the blunder)?

Nowhere in your list is mention of anything that is not directly attributable to Bush.


I tend to value balanced judgment. Partisanship (aka pointing the finger) is what digs holes for the rest of the moderates in the world.

[gtc]

The eye of the beholder comes to mind.

No. Its a simple definition.

[BobTheDonkey]

No. Its a simple definition.

Are you, by chance, referring to this:

blun·der (blŭn'dər)
n. A usually serious mistake typically caused by ignorance or confusion.
v. blun·dered, blun·der·ing, blun·ders

v. intr.

1.

To move clumsily or blindly.
2.

To make a usually serious mistake.

v. tr.

1.

To make a stupid, usually serious error in; botch.
2.

To utter (something) stupidly or thoughtlessly.?

[gtc]

Are you, by chance, referring to this:

?

Yes.

The murders OJ were charged with weren't blunders. They appear to have been deliberate actions not stupid or thoughtless. In this case, a blunder would have occurred if the man responsible for the murders hadn't intended to kill the victims.

For the same reason, lying in order to gain support for an invasion of Iraq isn't a blunder but a deliberate act. More importantly, if Bush did lie to get support for the Iraq invasion then it was a successful tactic as the US did go to war.

This isn't a thread about bad things Bush did or bad things that happened in the 1990s. This thread should be about the biggest blunders of the decade.

I would say that the botched evacuation of New Orleans was a blunder as was the shoddy response after the event.

Missing the warning signs on 9/11 was a blunder but the Bush administration was only in office for 7 months prior to 9/11; both Bush and Clinton seem to bear some responsibility for that.

[Travis]

There's no question we could have gotten several hours of warning. That would have been enough to evacuate many areas, saving thousands of lives.

The fact that you're arguing this when there ALREADY exists a system that does EXACTLY that is beyond stupid. It's like arguing something could never fly without having wings like a plane, with a helicopter hovering overhead.

However the system that existed only covered the Pacific and was formed at the instigation of the nations surrounding the Pacific. If the nations around the Indian Ocean failed to also do so that would seem to be their error so I am not understanding how this is the fault of the nations using the Pacific Warning System. Wait....you were planning on blaming this on America weren't you? If not my previous statement there is irrelevant.

[Prometheus]

Instead of arguing over which individual episodes during the Bush administration might or might not fit the definition, how about just giving his entire presidency a 'life-time-achievement award'?

(For some reason, I can't get this song out of my head)
NSFW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWrlmRJenx0

[ElightenMe]

So I was perusing the local news this morning and bumped into a story with the title "top-10 blunders of decade (http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20091220/UPDATES01/91220004)". I knew I shouldn't click on it. I knew it would be painful. Of course I clicked on it.


It goes on to list the top ten blunders:


SEC ignoring Bernie Madoff
Mission Accomplished
Obama Manhattan skyline photo op
Balloon Boy
O.J.'s "If I Did It"
Cheney's Hunting Accident
SC Governor "Hiking the Appalachian Trail"
Janet Jackson's nipple
Enron
"The Adventures of Pluto Nash"


Balloon boy? Really? Pluto Nash? Arrrggghhhh.... excuse me while I poke my eyes out with an olive fork...

I know, I know, I should cut them some slack. Trying to whittle all the worldwide stupidity over the last decade down to one list of ten items is a task doomed to failure from the outset. That being said - lets make our own top ten list!

What do you think should be on the list of top ten blunders of the decade (so far). And for the pedants among us, we'll define that decade as 01/01/2000 to 12/31/2009: The Aughts.

High on my list are:

Weak security protocols that made 9/11 that much easier to perpetrate
War in Iraq
McCain picks Palin
Patriots don't punt, lose to colts, Bob loses $25.


This reallt smacks of "The whole world consists of the U.S.A.

[GreyICE]

However the system that existed only covered the Pacific and was formed at the instigation of the nations surrounding the Pacific. If the nations around the Indian Ocean failed to also do so that would seem to be their error so I am not understanding how this is the fault of the nations using the Pacific Warning System. Wait....you were planning on blaming this on America weren't you? If not my previous statement there is irrelevant.

What? How was I blaming this on America? Seriously... what?

No... seriously. What. The. ****. That doesn't even make any sense. Can you possibly explain this line of logic? I feel like I just visited Deeper than the Primes by accident.

[gtc]

This reallt smacks of "The whole world consists of the U.S.A.

That isn't surprising seeing as it is published in a local American newspaper.

What do you consider to be the biggest blunders globally?

[quadraginta]

This reallt smacks of "The whole world consists of the U.S.A.

It doesn't hurt to read into the thread a few posts before you jump in. This was eight down from the OP...

<snip>

But, I agree it seems a bit US-centric. That's one of the reasons I started this thread - to get a broader view.

Your additional input will be welcome, I'm sure. :)

[GlennB]

For the same reason, lying in order to gain support for an invasion of Iraq isn't a blunder but a deliberate act. More importantly, if Bush did lie to get support for the Iraq invasion then it was a successful tactic as the US did go to war.


A deliberate act can quite easily be a blunder. If its objective is ill-conceived in the first place, or the consequences aren't properly assessed. You seem to be equating blunder with accident.

In chess, my move bxe6 is deliberate because I think it wins me a pawn. Ths fact that it opens me up to losing a full piece 2 moves later makes it a blunder.

[gtc]

A deliberate act can quite easily be a blunder. If its objective is ill-conceived in the first place, or the consequences aren't properly assessed. You seem to be equating blunder with accident.

In chess, my move bxe6 is deliberate because I think it wins me a pawn. Ths fact that it opens me up to losing a full piece 2 moves later makes it a blunder.

I don't mean to equate blunder with accident. My concept is the same as yours but maybe I have made an error somewhere or not explained myself properly.

I am trying to say that the act can be deliberate but the outcome should be unintentionally bad.

So stabbing someone with the intention of killing them and with the result that they die is not a blunder. Stabbing someone with the intention of killing them and slipping in their blood and killing yourself would be a blunder.

Am I clearer?

[BobTheDonkey]

I don't mean to equate blunder with accident. My concept is the same as yours but maybe I have made an error somewhere or not explained myself properly.

I am trying to say that the act can be deliberate but the outcome should be unintentionally bad.

So stabbing someone with the intention of killing them and with the result that they die is not a blunder. Stabbing someone with the intention of killing them and slipping in their blood and killing yourself would be a blunder.

Am I clearer?

I think Glenn's argument (correct me if I'm wrong) would be that the killing in and of itself is a blunder as there would be the consequences of a prison sentence to follow.

Generally, however, I use blunder to describe an event/decision with unintended consequences. If I wanted to go to prison and therefore killed someone, that wouldn't so much be a blunder.

If I were to make the chess move Glenn referenced without realizing the consequences, that would have been a blunder. Making the move with the realization of the consequences (loss of a piece) would shift us towards an action inviting a specific negative outcome.

[Davidlpf]

McCain choosing Palin, the best example of political suicide ever.

[Travis]

What? How was I blaming this on America? Seriously... what?

No... seriously. What. The. ****. That doesn't even make any sense. Can you possibly explain this line of logic? I feel like I just visited Deeper than the Primes by accident.

I just reread the thread and realized I had this screwed up with another discussion. So, yeah, I probably do look insane. :boxedin:

Sorry.


Back on topic: do you think that, in addition to a warning system, that some basic education on the phenomena would also have helped? It's really sad that in many places tourists were the only ones that recognized what was going on.

[GlennB]

So stabbing someone with the intention of killing them and with the result that they die is not a blunder. Stabbing someone with the intention of killing them and slipping in their blood and killing yourself would be a blunder.

Am I clearer?

Yes, but I'd say that limiting the definition purely to the initial intended act is too restricting. If I use a flame-thrower on my garden weeds and set fire to my shed then - in my view - I can't claim success at any level, even if the weeds die. It was a blundrous concept from the outset ;)

Ditto Iraq - the downsides were so utterly predictable that getting in there in the first place, even when we enthusiastically chose to get involved, was part of the blunderosity. If the complications had been unforeseeable - like, some rebel Iraqi faction had a secret stash of suitcase nukes -then, yes, it would have been blunderless. Just unfortunate.

[gtc]

I don't think we are in disagreement. With your two examples, the act is intentional but the results unintended and so it was a blunder occurred.

[GreyICE]

I just reread the thread and realized I had this screwed up with another discussion. So, yeah, I probably do look insane. :boxedin:

Sorry. Well that does explain it. I just really couldn't work out how I was blaming America. If anything, America's response with relief efforts was admirable.

Back on topic: do you think that, in addition to a warning system, that some basic education on the phenomena would also have helped? It's really sad that in many places tourists were the only ones that recognized what was going on. Yes and no. From the fact that it was a 10 year old kid who recognized it at one point, but all the adults failed to, I'm going to say they're the sort of facts that you learn, but don't retain. Therefore, while it's easy to say 'of course everyone remembers it now' 30 or 50 or 80 years from now when the next Tsunami forms, everyone may very well have forgotten (after all, the last one before this one was Krakatoa, there).

Automated warning systems have many advantages, one of which is that they just work. Education campaign wouldn't suck, but the necessity of keeping it up long term while it garners little payback for people who pay attention to it is a losing strategy, long term.

[Horatius]

High on my list are:

Patriots don't punt, lose to colts, Bob loses $25.




If you're going with football, consider this recent Grey Cup: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/97th_Grey_Cup)


The Montreal Alouettes came from behind to defeat the Saskatchewan Roughriders, 28-27, on a 33-yard field goal by Damon Duval as time ran out. Duval had actually missed his first attempt, but Saskatchewan was penalized for having too many men on the field, allowing Duval a second field goal attempt.


Riders bravely snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!

[GlennB]

I don't think we are in disagreement. With your two examples, the act is intentional but the results unintended and so it was a blunder occurred.

I darn you to heck for being so reasonable.
I wanted to post again while slipping 'blunderful' and 'blundritude' into the discussion.

[madurobob]

If you're going with football, consider this recent Grey Cup: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/97th_Grey_Cup)

I'd say the blunder was naming a football team the "Alouettes"! How bad-ass is that? Seriously, Alouettes? I don't even know what one is, all I can hear is that silly children's song one of Jerry's nephews sings when Tom & Jerry are muskateers: "Alouette gentille Alouette, Alouette je t' éplumerai... "

[ddt]

I'd say the blunder was naming a football team the "Alouettes"! How bad-ass is that? Seriously, Alouettes? I don't even know what one is, all I can hear is that silly children's song one of Jerry's nephews sings when Tom & Jerry are muskateers: "Alouette gentille Alouette, Alouette je t' éplumerai... "

It means "swallow" (the bird). I don't see a connection with football either.

[Kestrel]

Well that does explain it. I just really couldn't work out how I was blaming America. If anything, America's response with relief efforts was admirable.
Yes and no. From the fact that it was a 10 year old kid who recognized it at one point, but all the adults failed to, I'm going to say they're the sort of facts that you learn, but don't retain. Therefore, while it's easy to say 'of course everyone remembers it now' 30 or 50 or 80 years from now when the next Tsunami forms, everyone may very well have forgotten (after all, the last one before this one was Krakatoa, there).

Automated warning systems have many advantages, one of which is that they just work. Education campaign wouldn't suck, but the necessity of keeping it up long term while it garners little payback for people who pay attention to it is a losing strategy, long term.

Tsunami education seems to be effective in Hawaii. It's been over 60 years after the last major tsunami hit the islands. Few of the present residents were around when that happened. Yet most of them know what to do when they hear a tsunami warning. The signs pointing out tsunami evacuation routes serve as a constant reminder.

[I Ratant]

Many of the victims were not within eyesight of the shoreline although they lived in low-lying areas. There are some very good media files I've seen where the waves ploughed through built up areas where survivors of the quake were trying to clean up. Most of the videos we've seen, on the other hand, are from tourist hotels with a very good view of the sea.

I would have to count that disaster as my #2 blunder next to the response to the Congolese War.
.
Granite, but, the sudden passage of beach dwellers asking to be pointed at the high ground might be a secondary clue. :)

[GreyICE]

Tsunami education seems to be effective in Hawaii. It's been over 60 years after the last major tsunami hit the islands. Few of the present residents were around when that happened. Yet most of them know what to do when they hear a tsunami warning. The signs pointing out tsunami evacuation routes serve as a constant reminder.

But the warning itself is provided by a network of sensors. In context of the discussion that you missed, the education would not be about 'what to do if there's a Tsunami' but 'how to know to recognize a Tsunami coming' which most likely only a very small fraction of Hawaii's population could do.

[commandlinegamer]

Scrapping Concorde.

Yeah it was totally unenvironmentally friendly, No. 1 on the Noise Abatement Society's hit list, pretty much limited to the rich and famous, but it was one of the last things in which Britain (and France) had an edge over everyone else in the world.

And it looked pretty fly, too.

[gumboot]

To believe that I'd have to believe that the lineup of the banner, the Presidential podium and the location of the press photography corps was coincidental. I don't.



Actually if you think about it, there's not really many options for how it could have panned out, and perhaps you should be questioning the motives of photographers who intentionally framed photos that way. Bush was a long, long way from the banner. The banner was hung from the ship's tower - which is pretty much the only possible place of displaying something like that on an aircraft carrier where it will be seen.

Bush gave his speech at the front end of the carrier, which kind of makes sense as I imagine they probably needed to keep the raked launch deck and the landing deck clear just in case.

Here's a photo of the set up. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bush-USS-Lincoln.jpg) You'd actually have to try pretty hard to get a decent frame of Bush and the sign.

I think it's abundantly clear that the sign was made for the ship's crew, at their request, to celebrate the end of the longest carrier deployment since Vietnam. Everyone seems to agree that's how it happened.

I would also, however, agree that the administration sought to take advantage of it, and it backfired on them.

[gumboot]

Well that does explain it. I just really couldn't work out how I was blaming America. If anything, America's response with relief efforts was admirable.
Yes and no. From the fact that it was a 10 year old kid who recognized it at one point, but all the adults failed to, I'm going to say they're the sort of facts that you learn, but don't retain. Therefore, while it's easy to say 'of course everyone remembers it now' 30 or 50 or 80 years from now when the next Tsunami forms, everyone may very well have forgotten (after all, the last one before this one was Krakatoa, there).

Automated warning systems have many advantages, one of which is that they just work. Education campaign wouldn't suck, but the necessity of keeping it up long term while it garners little payback for people who pay attention to it is a losing strategy, long term.



I have to say I don't actually agree. New Zealand has pretty good Tsunami warning systems, with sirens and so forth, yet when there was potential for a Tsunami after the Samoan earthquake (there was another a couple of days before/after but I don't remember where) earlier this year, crowds and crowds of people flocked to beaches to watch it, and police had to deploy to beaches to tell people to leave.

People are just stupid, and don't realise the danger of a Tsunami, or that it won't be obvious whether it's a big one or not until it's too late to do anything.

[I Ratant]

I have to say I don't actually agree. New Zealand has pretty good Tsunami warning systems, with sirens and so forth, yet when there was potential for a Tsunami after the Samoan earthquake (there was another a couple of days before/after but I don't remember where) earlier this year, crowds and crowds of people flocked to beaches to watch it, and police had to deploy to beaches to tell people to leave.

People are just stupid, and don't realise the danger of a Tsunami, or that it won't be obvious whether it's a big one or not until it's too late to do anything.
.
It's just another kink in the progress of evolution.
The culling of those incapable of comprehending the Information Age.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Tsunami education seems to be effective in Hawaii. It's been over 60 years after the last major tsunami hit the islands. Few of the present residents were around when that happened. Yet most of them know what to do when they hear a tsunami warning. The signs pointing out tsunami evacuation routes serve as a constant reminder.Having seen the programs on the Hawaii tsunami where the school kids ran out to investigate the sudden low tide and most of them if not all drowned, I was shocked how few people knew what the sudden low tide meant in all the big tsunami videos. And after a huge earthquake no less. :boggled:

A world full of information and 200,000+ people died because a million or more coastal dwellers and tourists seemed to have no clue about what a sudden low tide meant. At a minimum they should have known that a big earthquake was reason to at least be ready to find higher ground.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I have to say I don't actually agree. New Zealand has pretty good Tsunami warning systems, with sirens and so forth, yet when there was potential for a Tsunami after the Samoan earthquake (there was another a couple of days before/after but I don't remember where) earlier this year, crowds and crowds of people flocked to beaches to watch it, and police had to deploy to beaches to tell people to leave.

People are just stupid, and don't realise the danger of a Tsunami, or that it won't be obvious whether it's a big one or not until it's too late to do anything.I do have to admit we had been camping near Mt St Helens more than once before the big one because we wanted to see the eruptions. I'm not stupid but I was unaware what a pyroclastic flow was.

However, not that many people live in the shadow of a volcano in the US where as we have lots of coastline communities. I think the public officials have a big job educating people about these infrequent disasters. You have to keep at it.

There are constant warnings about 'sneaker waves' here on the NW coast yet people still die from them. These are waves that move huge driftwood tree trunks which otherwise look like benign objects.

With the tsunami however, it just seemed like in every one of the videos showing the sudden low tide, I don't think I saw a single one where someone knew what the low tide meant.

[gtc]

Seas don't always recede before a Tsunami. If the crest arrives before the trough then the seas just start to rise. This is what happened in Sri Lanka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake) and other countries to the West of where the Earthquake occurred.

More importantly, the earthquake doesn't appear to have been felt in Sri Lanka (so there was no warning there) and coastal dwellers don't just sit around all day looking out to sea; many of the places that were inundated were out of sight of the ocean.

Blaming the victims when (in the abscence of an effective early warning system and an effective method of dispersing that information) they really had no way to know that they were in any danger is wrong.

[Kestrel]

Having seen the programs on the Hawaii tsunami where the school kids ran out to investigate the sudden low tide and most of them if not all drowned, I was shocked how few people knew what the sudden low tide meant in all the big tsunami videos. And after a huge earthquake no less. :boggled:

A world full of information and 200,000+ people died because a million or more coastal dwellers and tourists seemed to have no clue about what a sudden low tide meant. At a minimum they should have known that a big earthquake was reason to at least be ready to find higher ground.

The 1946 tsunami that devastated Hilo was triggered by an earthquake in Alaska. It would not have been felt in Hawaii. In 2004, the residents of Indonesia felt the earthquake and should have realized that tsunami might follow. A bit of education may have helped them. But that would not have helped people far away from the epicenter, in Thailand and Sri Lanka.

Recognizing a receding sea as a warning would have helped some of those victims, but that doesn't alway happen before the wave hits. What they really needed was a warning signal. A warning broadcast over local radio would have saved thousands.

The earthquake that caused the 2004 tsunami was picked up by the USGS earthquake monitoring network. The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center recognized the danger, as did USGS personal in Golden, Colorado. Both those groups spent hours trying to get out a warning.

[Dr Adequate]

Actually if you think about it, there's not really many options for how it could have panned out, and perhaps you should be questioning the motives of photographers who intentionally framed photos that way. Bush was a long, long way from the banner. The banner was hung from the ship's tower - which is pretty much the only possible place of displaying something like that on an aircraft carrier where it will be seen.

Bush gave his speech at the front end of the carrier, which kind of makes sense as I imagine they probably needed to keep the raked launch deck and the landing deck clear just in case.

Here's a photo of the set up. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bush-USS-Lincoln.jpg) You'd actually have to try pretty hard to get a decent frame of Bush and the sign.

I think it's abundantly clear that the sign was made for the ship's crew, at their request, to celebrate the end of the longest carrier deployment since Vietnam. Everyone seems to agree that's how it happened. Hmm (http://www.time.com/time/columnist/printout/0,8816,536170,00.html) ...

Not long afterwards, the White House had to amend its account. The soldiers hadn't put up the sign; the White House had done the hoisting. It had also produced the banner — contrary to what senior White House officials had said for months. In the end, the White House conceded on those details, but declared them mere quibbles. The point was, they said, that the whole thing had been done at the request of the crewmembers. Even that explanation didn't sit well with some long-time Bush aides. "They (the White House) put up banners at every event that look just like that and we're supposed to believe that at this one it was the Navy that requested one?" asked a senior administration official. Others remember staffers boasting about how the president had been specifically positioned during his speech so that the banner would be captured in footage of his speech.

In his last White House press conference, Bush himself talked about this (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/12/raw-data-transcript-bushs-white-house-press-conference/) when asked about his "single biggest mistake":

QUESTION: And I'm not trying to play "gotcha," but I wonder, when you look back over the long arc of your presidency, do you think in retrospect that you have made any mistakes? And, if so, why is the single biggest mistake that you may have made?

BUSH: Gotcha.

(LAUGHTER)

Look, I have often said that history will look back and determine that which could have been done better or, you know, mistakes I made.

Clearly, putting a "mission accomplished" on a (sic) aircraft carrier was a mistake. It sent the wrong message.

[Travis]

Seas don't always recede before a Tsunami. If the crest arrives before the trough then the seas just start to rise. This is what happened in Sri Lanka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake) and other countries to the West of where the Earthquake occurred.

More importantly, the earthquake doesn't appear to have been felt in Sri Lanka (so there was no warning there) and coastal dwellers don't just sit around all day looking out to sea; many of the places that were inundated were out of sight of the ocean.

Blaming the victims when (in the abscence of an effective early warning system and an effective method of dispersing that information) they really had no way to know that they were in any danger is wrong.

I'm not sure anyone is "blaming" the victims. I agree a warning system was necessary and it's good that one now exists in that region. I was just speculating that an education campaign might help save a few lives too.

BTW I can't begin to wonder how terrible it must have been for the USGS and Pacific Warning Center people who detected the Tsunami but couldn't warn the people in it's path.

[Skeptic Ginger]

The 1946 tsunami that devastated Hilo was triggered by an earthquake in Alaska. It would not have been felt in Hawaii. In 2004, the residents of Indonesia felt the earthquake and should have realized that tsunami might follow. A bit of education may have helped them. But that would not have helped people far away from the epicenter, in Thailand and Sri Lanka.

Recognizing a receding sea as a warning would have helped some of those victims, but that doesn't alway happen before the wave hits. What they really needed was a warning signal. A warning broadcast over local radio would have saved thousands.No one is saying the warning system wasn't woeful. And my comment about the EQ was an afterthought.

What is incomprehensible is that any population in a tsunami risk zone doesn't know there is only one explanation for an untimely rapidly receding tide. Unless you'd care to give us an alternative explanation. :rolleyes:

[Skeptic Ginger]

Hmm (http://www.time.com/time/columnist/printout/0,8816,536170,00.html) ...

Not long afterwards, the White House had to amend its account. The soldiers hadn't put up the sign; the White House had done the hoisting. It had also produced the banner — contrary to what senior White House officials had said for months. In the end, the White House conceded on those details, but declared them mere quibbles. The point was, they said, that the whole thing had been done at the request of the crewmembers. Even that explanation didn't sit well with some long-time Bush aides. "They (the White House) put up banners at every event that look just like that and we're supposed to believe that at this one it was the Navy that requested one?" asked a senior administration official. Others remember staffers boasting about how the president had been specifically positioned during his speech so that the banner would be captured in footage of his speech.

In his last White House press conference, Bush himself talked about this (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/12/raw-data-transcript-bushs-white-house-press-conference/) when asked about his "single biggest mistake":

QUESTION: And I'm not trying to play "gotcha," but I wonder, when you look back over the long arc of your presidency, do you think in retrospect that you have made any mistakes? And, if so, why is the single biggest mistake that you may have made?

BUSH: Gotcha.

(LAUGHTER)

Look, I have often said that history will look back and determine that which could have been done better or, you know, mistakes I made.

Clearly, putting a "mission accomplished" on a (sic) aircraft carrier was a mistake. It sent the wrong message.Gumboot has heard this before but has apparently chosen selective memory over the facts in this case.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm not sure anyone is "blaming" the victims. ...'Blame' is the wrong word. 'Appalled' at the ignorance in the information age is what I had in mind.

And I admit my own ignorance regarding Mt St Helens. The week before the whole mountain blew up, we were camped not more than a few miles from the north slope. When we returned to the location several weeks later, there was over a foot of ash at the site and what had been the mountain peak was now completely gone. The lip of the crater was all that was visible. I had no idea we had been doing anything dangerous.

[Skeptic Ginger]

No, you specifically noted why You, who happens to be a liberal and a woman, do not agree with the list.I really don't get your point. Are you suggesting most women would not be more concerned about domestic violence than OJ's book, or most liberals care more about "Mission Accomplished" than the Iraq war itself?

I don't know many Conservatives that feel the Mission Accomplished banner was anything other than a blunder. The mission was most definitely not accomplished, the Iraq debacle has continued quite a while after.No doubt. There are lots of conservatives who've voiced concern about Bush's mishandling of the war. But I don't know of any liberals who believed initiating the Iraq war was justified while only the execution of the war was just mishandled. Feel free to quote any of them you are aware of.

No, you specifically noted why You, who You, yourself, claimed the original list was: ... This was followed by: .... To which you replied: .... Ironically, you threw the false logic claim at Stilicho and, in fact, proved mine - That just because one is in the conservative, male, upper middle class demographic does not mean they all think alike. Similiarly, just because one is in the liberal, female, (I don't know your class) demographic does not mean they all think alike. ;)I never once said all conservatives think alike. I don't know why, after clarifying that once, I should need to clarify it again.

Nor do all liberal females think alike. But the list included a variety of topics. While perhaps you could not draw a conclusion from a single 'blunder' list, you have a much better chance if you have 10 blunders to go on.

What makes one a liberal or a conservative? Certain values, that's what. And you'd be denying there were any differences between men and women's values to suggest one could not guess that was a man's list and not a woman's.

The proof is in the pudding. It was a guy's list and I'm still willing to bet he was a conservative.

Now, I wonder, how exactly did you come to the conclusion that the author(s) was/were in that demographic if all members of said demographic wouldn't agree with the list?Your logic escapes me. The list had sufficient items on it to note a trend of male conservative. Why should that have to mean all male conservatives would have the same sentiments? It only has to mean there was enough there to conclude that wasn't a list reflecting liberal female values.

Your specific complaint about the Iraq/Afghanistan war was that it only was mentioned in one short way, whereas your list had five. All five of which could have easily been summed up with "Handling of the War on Terror" - as I stated.I don't think Bush was directly responsible for the CIA telling Coleen Rowley she couldn't have her warrant. He was however, directly responsible for ignoring the DPBs. So I felt those were 2 different blunders.

All 10 items listed are attributable to Bush, et al. and are incredibly centered on happenings affecting strictly the U.S. Thus, I stated that it appears you were simply airing your frustrations with the prior administration rather than listing the worst blunders. At what point did you mention the lack of an international tsunami warning system? Or the failure of any administration (or the USArmy CoE) to act to provide proper storm protection for New Orleans (there had been plenty of warnings prior to the storm - the failure to act on those warnings was the beginning of the blunder)?Just as was pointed out that OJ killed 2 people more than 10 years ago, the condition of the levees in Louisiana were more longstanding. I don't disagree the levee condition was a very serious blunder.

Nowhere in your list is mention of anything that is not directly attributable to Bush.Yeah, well Bush was the worst president in my entire lifetime.


I tend to value balanced judgment. Partisanship (aka pointing the finger) is what digs holes for the rest of the moderates in the world.The magnitude of the Bush blunders speak for themselves.

[portlandatheist]

Do you guys remember what life was like before the Segway? It's difficult to imagine how much this technical marvel has changed our lives.
-V2Z1MXlxPg
Introduced in 2002, this gadget was supposed to change the world.

[epix]

And my winner iiiiis... Watching the sub-prime mortgage bubble grow a half of a decade thinking that it would fly away and burst in the next millennium.

[Beerina]

It goes on to list the top ten blunders:


Mission Accomplished
(No reasonable choice for something near this bad)
(No reasonable choice for something near this bad)
(No reasonable choice for something near this bad)
(No reasonable choice for something near this bad)
(No reasonable choice for something near this bad)
SEC ignoring Bernie Madoff
Obama Manhattan skyline photo op
Balloon Boy
O.J.'s "If I Did It"
Cheney's Hunting Accident
SC Governor "Hiking the Appalachian Trail"
Pandering governmental massive over-reaction to Janet Jackson's nipple
Enron
"The Adventures of Pluto Nash"


Fixed.

[I Ratant]

Do you guys remember what life was like before the Segway? It's difficult to imagine how much this technical marvel has changed our lives.
-V2Z1MXlxPg
Introduced in 2002, this gadget was supposed to change the world.
.
I commented to the Sheriffs showing off theirs at the Mall that based on the obvious waist lines of the users, it was not going to do much for their health, not that walking the Mall did much in that direction either.

[Kestrel]

Do you guys remember what life was like before the Segway? It's difficult to imagine how much this technical marvel has changed our lives.
-V2Z1MXlxPg
Introduced in 2002, this gadget was supposed to change the world.

Segway is created. Intended market is commuters traveling short distance from home to transit station. Small size of device allows carrying it on bus or train, then using it to travel short distance to final destination.

Cities across the nation respond by banning Segway use on public sidewalks or streets.

[quadraginta]

Segway is created. Intended market is commuters traveling short distance from home to transit station. Small size of device allows carrying it on bus or train, then using it to travel short distance to final destination.

Cities across the nation respond by banning Segway use on public sidewalks or streets.


This seems to suggest that there was some sort of widespread banning in the U.S.. A Google search of "segway ban" doesn't support this. Yes, there was a ban in San Fransisco (enacted before the machine was even offered for sale :(), and at Disneyworld, and scattered restrictions elsewhere of varying severity and application. The latter seem mostly coordinate with the device's somewhat ambiguous application.

In general it doesn't seem to be fair to describe that as a nationwide response.

Now the UK, OTOH, did exactly that. Other countries reacted with widely varying degrees of restriction. All of the these, and more are being challenged or reviewed.

There's a good summary here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segway_PT#Restrictions_on_use).

[luchog]

.
Five years after WWII ended, our family, and a few thousand others with fathers in the military moved to Occupied Germany to live. Germany regained its status as a free country while we were there... 3 years in my case.
At no time were any American dependents at risk from any retaliations by bitter German insurgents.
Wehrwolf. Edelweiss Piraten.

Admittedly, the threat didn't last long; but that was due mainly to the fact that they were poorly organized and supplied; combined with grossly disproportionate reprisals on the part of the Allies, particularly the Soviet forces, which broke morale and destroyed popular support. Actions that would be considered war crimes today.

[Dr Adequate]

One thing that concerns me is that the ordinary common people don't stand a chance of getting on this list. It is reserved to the political elite.

Is that fair? How can we ignore the voices of We The People, the very backbone of this country?

Therefore, I should like to nominate right-wing halfwits everywhere. There's so much to choose from, but I'll go for their reaction to the Somalian pirate crisis just three hours or so before the US won.

* "Obama: making the US look like limp-wristed weaklings"

* "I hope we take no prisoners, and start sinking pirate boats all over the area, but I guess it's a bit much to expect from their blood brother in the White House."

* "This is why the POTUS needs to born in the USA. 0bama has no idea whose side he’s on. He’s a citizen of the earth as the liberals like to say. We are under occupation."

* "The problem lies with the muzzie in chief alone."

* "Obama is crippling our Military and making us the laughing stock of the world."

* "I seem to recall Klintoon had no qualms about bustin caps into religious “compounds” or “suspected Right Wing Separatists”. Oh wait, they weren't mooslimbs were they?"

* "I am suprised not one of you get what is going on. On Wednesday America will be holding an historic event in these Tea Parties. It will make a huge difference in the 2010 elections and beyond. So what do you think the White House will do? They are waiting for the timing to be right to go after the hostages and marginalize the Tea Parties."

* "So it all falls on Obama. Obama doesn’t want to kill a muslim. That is all it comes down to."

* "Obama doesn’t want to kill a muslim = Obama doesn’t want to kill a FELLOW muslim"

* "I think Obama is certainly making himself the laughing stock of the world! There's always hope America will come to her senses when she sees what a sissy she has elected Commander-in-Chief."

* "How could Hussein possibly attack fellow Muslims? Now if the pirates were lutherans...."

* "He has no idea what to do...scratch that he won't hurt his fellow muslims but he will sacrifice Americans"

* "Tim Geithner is the same he spent his formative years in Asia where his dad was a key Ford Foundation operative who even met 0bama's mother a few times Geithner and 0bama are damaged goods And Hawaii is such a multi-culti state our first one in fact. 0bomo grew up multi-kulti there and still harbored resentments because he was black or semi-black or semi-Muslim or what have you. It was multi-kulti back when 0bama grew up there and in Indonesia"

* "I am every day, more and more horrified that this idiot is president. Things will get worse, I’m afraid. He’s cutting this country off at the knees on so many levels."

* "I heard Obama formed a special blue ribbon commission to discuss how best to deal with the hostage situation. Their first course of action was to declare this a law enforcement problem not a military problem so they call in the FBI to enforce U.S. laws off the shores of Somalia with the navy serving as visual props. Their next course of action was to have hostage negotiators who are doing everything they can to end the standoff without paying the ransom. The last step is to find a third party to whom they can give the ransom money to in order for that country to siphon the money to the pirates without anyone knowing that it ever happened. This is the Obama way of resolving global conflicts."

* "Better that Americans find out now rather than later Somali pirates are doing us a favor"

* "He knows EXACTLY whose side he is on. It just doesn't happen to be America's side."

* "And in the back of my mind, I wonder of the possibility of Obama being blackmailed through these pirates, who could be connected to others in Kenya who have access to his Kenyan birth records."

* "Well at least Biden was right on one account. zer0 would ***** the bed on some international crisis with in a short time. He’s doing it now"

* "What the NAVY “wants” is not at all at issue here. Obama is calling the shots, and Obama is a panty waiste coward."

* "The c-i-c is a cowardly Marxist who has more gaul to lie and post a forgery to ascend to the presidency than to stand up against terrorists Somali Muslim pirates."

* "You can just feel the public rage boiling close to the surface! Taking this country back may not be a peaceful proposition!"

* "Headline? Alabama's captain is a "typical white person" President Weighs Cost-Benefit Of Rescue Effort "We have millions of them," said White House spokesman"

* "Put the blame where it belongs, on the Coward in Chief."

* "Ah, but the supposed real conservatives ridicule and condescend that birthers should shut up and wait for a better issue! ... I'm sick of these DNC agitprops soiling my once grand FR home with their pseudo-conservative claptrap. This affirmative action fraud-in-chief must be opposed at the most fundamental level, and all the rest of the levels beyond that! It is a real possibility that this lying PME (piece of muslim excriment) in the oval orifice is being blackmailed over his place of birth! Is that too hard for folks to see?"

* "ANYONE that is HYPHENATED has DUAL LOYALTIES!! He is an AFRICAN-AMERICAN....int the TRUEST SENSE!!"

* "If this doesn’t make you mad; nothing will. Imagine a President intentionally putting an American or Americans in harms way. Impeach this yahoo now."

* "The possibility of the birthplace issue being used against us is one of my concerns. Lord knows how many Lord Zero would allow to die to keep his secret."

* "This bears repeating ... We are under occupation."

* "0bama is committing TREASON. He’s a Benedict Arnold. He’s a Traitor to the USofA!"

* "We’ve become a pathetic, ridiculed nation in three short months. I’ve wondered if there’s any entity that can over-ride Hussein’s trashing of the Constitution and destruction of liberty. Mark Levin said there isn’t — it’s handled through the election process. You’d think SCOTUS could step in and control a traitor."

* "It’s such a “coincidence” that the pirates are rowing to Hussein’s homeland. Of all the ports in the world — Kenya? C’mon."

* "We have become the enemies. The terrorists are now being let go and we will be the prosecuted ones."

* "We lost, folks. It’s all over except the bloodshed part."

[SezMe]

I think it's abundantly clear that the sign was made for the ship's crew, at their request, to celebrate the end of the longest carrier deployment since Vietnam. Everyone seems to agree that's how it happened.
Maybe I'm just too cynical but I do not think that is abundantly clear. Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Accomplished) says

The White House claimed that the banner was requested by the crew of the ship, who did not have the facilities for producing such a banner. Afterwards, the administration and naval sources stated that the banner was the Navy's idea, White House (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House) staff members made the banner, and it was hung by the U.S. Navy personnel. White House spokesman Scott McClellan told CNN "We took care of the production of it. We have people to do those things. But the Navy actually put it up."[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Accomplished#cite_note-6) According to John Dickerson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dickerson) of Time magazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_%28magazine%29), the White House later conceded that they actually hung the banner but still insists it had been done at the request of the crew members.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Accomplished#cite_note-7)The White House made and hung the banner. Hmmm, why would the WH hang the thing if the Navy asked for it. You may be right, gumboot, but for me the jury remains out.

ETA: I see DR A beat me to it...and better too. Damn.

[I Ratant]

...

Yeah, well Bush was the worst president in my entire lifetime.
...
.
Mine too, and I remember from FDR on.

[I Ratant]

One thing that concerns me is that the ordinary common people don't stand a chance of getting on this list. It is reserved to the political elite.

Is that fair? How can we ignore the voices of We The People, the very backbone of this country?

Therefore, I should like to nominate right-wing halfwits everywhere. There's so much to choose from, but I'll go for their reaction to the Somalian pirate crisis just three hours or so before the US won.

* "Obama: making the US look like limp-wristed weaklings"

* "I hope we take no prisoners, and start sinking pirate boats all over the area, but I guess it's a bit much to expect from their blood brother in the White House."

* "This is why the POTUS needs to born in the USA. 0bama has no idea whose side he’s on. He’s a citizen of the earth as the liberals like to say. We are under occupation."

* "The problem lies with the muzzie in chief alone."

* "Obama is crippling our Military and making us the laughing stock of the world."

* "I seem to recall Klintoon had no qualms about bustin caps into religious “compounds” or “suspected Right Wing Separatists”. Oh wait, they weren't mooslimbs were they?"

* "I am suprised not one of you get what is going on. On Wednesday America will be holding an historic event in these Tea Parties. It will make a huge difference in the 2010 elections and beyond. So what do you think the White House will do? They are waiting for the timing to be right to go after the hostages and marginalize the Tea Parties."

* "So it all falls on Obama. Obama doesn’t want to kill a muslim. That is all it comes down to."

* "Obama doesn’t want to kill a muslim = Obama doesn’t want to kill a FELLOW muslim"

* "I think Obama is certainly making himself the laughing stock of the world! There's always hope America will come to her senses when she sees what a sissy she has elected Commander-in-Chief."

* "How could Hussein possibly attack fellow Muslims? Now if the pirates were lutherans...."

* "He has no idea what to do...scratch that he won't hurt his fellow muslims but he will sacrifice Americans"

* "Tim Geithner is the same he spent his formative years in Asia where his dad was a key Ford Foundation operative who even met 0bama's mother a few times Geithner and 0bama are damaged goods And Hawaii is such a multi-culti state our first one in fact. 0bomo grew up multi-kulti there and still harbored resentments because he was black or semi-black or semi-Muslim or what have you. It was multi-kulti back when 0bama grew up there and in Indonesia"

* "I am every day, more and more horrified that this idiot is president. Things will get worse, I’m afraid. He’s cutting this country off at the knees on so many levels."

* "I heard Obama formed a special blue ribbon commission to discuss how best to deal with the hostage situation. Their first course of action was to declare this a law enforcement problem not a military problem so they call in the FBI to enforce U.S. laws off the shores of Somalia with the navy serving as visual props. Their next course of action was to have hostage negotiators who are doing everything they can to end the standoff without paying the ransom. The last step is to find a third party to whom they can give the ransom money to in order for that country to siphon the money to the pirates without anyone knowing that it ever happened. This is the Obama way of resolving global conflicts."

* "Better that Americans find out now rather than later Somali pirates are doing us a favor"

* "He knows EXACTLY whose side he is on. It just doesn't happen to be America's side."

* "And in the back of my mind, I wonder of the possibility of Obama being blackmailed through these pirates, who could be connected to others in Kenya who have access to his Kenyan birth records."

* "Well at least Biden was right on one account. zer0 would ***** the bed on some international crisis with in a short time. He’s doing it now"

* "What the NAVY “wants” is not at all at issue here. Obama is calling the shots, and Obama is a panty waiste coward."

* "The c-i-c is a cowardly Marxist who has more gaul to lie and post a forgery to ascend to the presidency than to stand up against terrorists Somali Muslim pirates."

* "You can just feel the public rage boiling close to the surface! Taking this country back may not be a peaceful proposition!"

* "Headline? Alabama's captain is a "typical white person" President Weighs Cost-Benefit Of Rescue Effort "We have millions of them," said White House spokesman"

* "Put the blame where it belongs, on the Coward in Chief."

* "Ah, but the supposed real conservatives ridicule and condescend that birthers should shut up and wait for a better issue! ... I'm sick of these DNC agitprops soiling my once grand FR home with their pseudo-conservative claptrap. This affirmative action fraud-in-chief must be opposed at the most fundamental level, and all the rest of the levels beyond that! It is a real possibility that this lying PME (piece of muslim excriment) in the oval orifice is being blackmailed over his place of birth! Is that too hard for folks to see?"

* "ANYONE that is HYPHENATED has DUAL LOYALTIES!! He is an AFRICAN-AMERICAN....int the TRUEST SENSE!!"

* "If this doesn’t make you mad; nothing will. Imagine a President intentionally putting an American or Americans in harms way. Impeach this yahoo now."

* "The possibility of the birthplace issue being used against us is one of my concerns. Lord knows how many Lord Zero would allow to die to keep his secret."

* "This bears repeating ... We are under occupation."

* "0bama is committing TREASON. He’s a Benedict Arnold. He’s a Traitor to the USofA!"

* "We’ve become a pathetic, ridiculed nation in three short months. I’ve wondered if there’s any entity that can over-ride Hussein’s trashing of the Constitution and destruction of liberty. Mark Levin said there isn’t — it’s handled through the election process. You’d think SCOTUS could step in and control a traitor."

* "It’s such a “coincidence” that the pirates are rowing to Hussein’s homeland. Of all the ports in the world — Kenya? C’mon."

* "We have become the enemies. The terrorists are now being let go and we will be the prosecuted ones."

* "We lost, folks. It’s all over except the bloodshed part."
.
That's the short list.
I get that crap daily, with never any retractions or apologies when these bumper stickers get refuted.

[DGM]

.

However, not that many people live in the shadow of a volcano in the US .
Nit-pick
Actually millions of people live within the danger zones of Mt. Rainer and Mt Hood.

[I Ratant]

And that thing growing under Yellowstone is gonna be a doozie when it goes!

[Skeptic Ginger]

Nit-pick
Actually millions of people live within the danger zones of Mt. Rainer and Mt Hood.It's a relative number.

And then there is the frequency of occurrence issue. I've heard about tsunamis since childhood. Who worried much about Mt Rainier until Mt St Helens erupted in 1980?

I'm admitting I do know how it is someone would not know what a abnormally receding tide meant, because I myself was pretty stupid about how dangerous a Cascade volcano was. But, OTOH, I don't understand how there were so few people in those tourist videos that recognized the danger.

[Skeptical Greg]

What? How was I blaming this on America? Seriously... what?

No... seriously. What. The. ****. That doesn't even make any sense. Can you possibly explain this line of logic? I feel like I just visited Deeper than the Primes by accident.

Very American list here from me, but lets roll.

Enron
Iraq
Kim Jong Il and the nuclear weapons crisis
Hurricane Katrina. Basically everything related to this.
9/11, and the intelligence and security breakdown that lead to it
Bhopal still not being cleaned up
The financial crisis and housing bubble
Madoff
Tsunamis killing hundreds of thousands, millions more being homeless, thanks to really lousy warning systems and bad infrastructure

Order these how you wish.

....

You stiill haven't explained how a better warning system ( or any warning system at all ) would have prevented anyone from becoming homeless, if their home happened to be in the path of a tsunami ...

[I Ratant]

Wehrwolf. Edelweiss Piraten.

Admittedly, the threat didn't last long; but that was due mainly to the fact that they were poorly organized and supplied; combined with grossly disproportionate reprisals on the part of the Allies, particularly the Soviet forces, which broke morale and destroyed popular support. Actions that would be considered war crimes today.
.
Never heard of them in 1950.
I expect these things are as fanciful as any of the covert organizations that infest the minds of the addled CTwits that in lieu of reality will grab onto anything bizarre and seemingly sinister, so they can cry themselves to sleep at night in fear of the boogie men that wander thru the openings in their brains.

[GreyICE]

....

You stiill haven't explained how a better warning system ( or any warning system at all ) would have prevented anyone from becoming homeless, if their home happened to be in the path of a tsunami ...

You haven't read anything I wrote, so whatever. Keep on hating me, and I'll keep on not caring about you.

[SezMe]

Keep on hating me, and I'll keep on not caring about you.
Talking past each other is now hate? Can you dial it back a bit, GreyICE?

[Dr Adequate]

You haven't read anything I wrote, so whatever. Keep on hating me, and I'll keep on not caring about you. I agree with SezMe. Calm down.

Greg's most recent point is in fact a perfectly fair one, if somewhat irrelevant. Early warning would have saved a lot of lives, but not a lot of property. You phrased your argument badly, such is the case, you're still right, move on.

[GreyICE]

Talking past each other is now hate? Can you dial it back a bit, GreyICE?

I dunno. When someone seems to be insisting that I am lying about not blaming my own country for a failure that left 200,000 dead (and which occurred in a different hemisphere, in no way involved America, and the disaster itself was about as preventable as the sun rising), I'm going to assume he's got something against me. I literally cannot think of another reason someone would choose to paint me in that light.


And if he meant something different, he REALLY needs to choose his bolding better.

[luchog]

.
Never heard of them in 1950.
I expect these things are as fanciful as any of the covert organizations that infest the minds of the addled CTwits that in lieu of reality will grab onto anything bizarre and seemingly sinister, so they can cry themselves to sleep at night in fear of the boogie men that wander thru the openings in their brains.

I suggest you do some reading of history. Both of them are very well documented.

[JihadJane]

Top "Blunder":

Co-operation between nations is essential as the world faces an unprecedented energy crisis which could bring industrial civilization to its knees.

The Anglo/US alliance of hyper-violence goes for broke trying to establish military domination in the Middle East and Asia.

May the perpetrators rot in hell!

[quadraginta]

Wehrwolf. Edelweiss Piraten.

Admittedly, the threat didn't last long; but that was due mainly to the fact that they were poorly organized and supplied; combined with grossly disproportionate reprisals on the part of the Allies, particularly the Soviet forces, which broke morale and destroyed popular support. Actions that would be considered war crimes today.

.
Never heard of them in 1950.
I expect these things are as fanciful as any of the covert organizations that infest the minds of the addled CTwits that in lieu of reality will grab onto anything bizarre and seemingly sinister, so they can cry themselves to sleep at night in fear of the boogie men that wander thru the openings in their brains.

I suggest you do some reading of history. Both of them are very well documented.


I did a little bit of researching both the Werwolf and Edelweiss Pirates, starting with the respective Wiki entries. Both very interesting, especially the Edelweiss Pirates (thanks for that), but neither seem to reflect what you were suggesting to I Ratant.

[I Ratant]

I suggest you do some reading of history. Both of them are very well documented.
.
No doubt, but 5 years after that war, American civilians were in no danger from any groups of disgruntled zealots.
The same will never be said about the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[soylent]

This forum's been around almost the whole decade-- what are the top 10 forum blunders / dumbest posts, whatever?

The stundies have an annual award but they have not been around for the full 10 years.