"Jobs" president shuts down Hawai'i

[rwguinn]

in a case of "What works here works everywhere" so typical of Washington, President Obama, by taking his vacation in Hawai'i (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=68a7c8ab-4b61-4917-82ba-4ecf5b9f4005&)for 2 weeks over Christmas, will effectively shut down all but military and Airline commercial flying in the state. a 10 Mile and 30 mile TFR (which works in Texas, but essentially includes the entire state of Hawai'i) are established, within which effectively all tourist-type aviation (sight-seeing, island hopping, soaring, instruction, etc are banned wipes out businesses. 3 hour haircuts, anybody?
(http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=68a7c8ab-4b61-4917-82ba-4ecf5b9f4005&#d) ...Within the 10NM ring, "All aircraft operations within the 10 NMR area listed above, known as the inner core, are prohibited except for: approved law enforcement, military aircraft directly supporting the United States Secret Service (USSS) and the office of the President of the united states, approved air ambulance flights, and regularly scheduled commercial passenger and all-cargo carriers operating under one of the following TSA-approved standard security programs/procedures: Aircraft Operator Standard Security Program (AOSSP), Full All-Cargo Aircraft Operator Standard Security Program (FACAOSSP), Model Security Program (MSP), Twelve Five Standard Security Program (TFSSP) All Cargo, Or All-Cargo International Security Procedure (ACISP) and are arriving into and/or departing from 14 CFR Part 139 airports. All emergency/life saving flight (medical/law enforcement/firefighting) operations must coordinate with ATC prior to their departure at 808-840-6201 to avoid potential delays..."

[Eyeron]

Hey, gotta protect the President. Who cares about the locals?

[Alt+F4]

Remember back in September when Obama called for a longer school year? I wonder if he realized that the school week for Hawaii public school is only four days long due to budget cuts.

Those in the tourist avaition industry who will now be unemployed can hang out with the furloughed teachers on Fridays.

[Hokulele]

Considering that this will have almost no impact on tourist travel (the vast majority of unscheduled tourists flights take place on the neighbor islands), the bit about sight-seeing is mildly incorrect and the bit about island-hopping is completely incorrect. The industry that will see the largest impact is pilot training, and since they have been steadily pummeled by regulations since 9/11, this is more of an insult to injury situation than anything else.

Although there was a piece on this on the local news last night, the OP seems to be an exaggeration of how most people out here view the visit.


ETA: And the bit about affecting the entire state? Please. Hawai'i is a bit larger than 30 NM across. Here is the local write-up on this.

http://www.kitv.com/money/22031180/detail.html

[Piscivore]

I just love it when partisans get all outraged on someone else's behalf. Usually because they can't be arsed regarding whatever it is the partisan wants them to be outraged about.

[quadraginta]

They can postpone the panic.

President Obama Postpones Hawaii Vacation (http://www.alohaupdate.com/2009/12/22/president-obama-postpones-hawaii-vacation/)

[Whiplash]

I just love it when partisans get all outraged on someone else's behalf. Usually because they can't be arsed regarding whatever it is the partisan wants them to be outraged about.


Is it a legitimate concern, or not? If so, none of what you say matters. Just an attempt to demonize those making the argument.

[Thunder]

um...is the OP suggesting that there will be ZERO commercial traffic in and out of Hawaii, during Obama's vacation???? lolololol!!

My oh my, Republicans make it soooooo easy.

:D

[Piscivore]

Is it a legitimate concern, or not?
I don't know; I don't live in Hawaii. Hoku does, and she seem to not think its an issue. Contrast to the OP, the author of which also does not live in Hawaii, and the dire tone of that post.

If so, none of what you say matters. Just an attempt to demonize those making the argument.
I don't see an "argument", I see partisan mudslinging.

[Hokulele]

Is it a legitimate concern, or not? If so, none of what you say matters. Just an attempt to demonize those making the argument.


Did you read my post and the local news article I linked? The pilot training aspect is a legitimate concern. The TFR affecting the whole state and shutting down tourism-based aviation aspect, not so much.

Based on this, I would say that your comments regarding Pisci's post are wrong.

[mortimer]

um...is the OP suggesting that there will be ZERO commercial traffic in and out of Hawaii, during Obama's vacation????
No.

[Hokulele]

No.


Correct, although the OP does have its flaws, it does acknowledge that scheduled commercial flights aren't affected by the TFR. I don't think Parky read it all that carefully.

[rwguinn]

Correct, although the OP does have its flaws, it does acknowledge that scheduled commercial flights aren't affected by the TFR. I don't think Parky read it all that carefully.
The quote in the OP is from the TFR itself. The article I linked to does quote some locals who run sight-seeing operations.
The soaring around the area is a major draw for pilots who like to fly on vacation, and even closing down one business during its busy season is, to me, excessive and a violation of many rights.
To be fair, Obama himself is not to blame--just the idiots who think that a Cessna 172 poses more danger than a Boeing 767. These idiots are known as the TSA and the FAA, and are supported by Congress

[Piscivore]

To be fair, Obama himself is not to blame--just the idiots who think that a Cessna 172 poses more danger than a Boeing 767. These idiots are known as the TSA and the FAA, and are supported by Congress

Well, to be really fair, their concern is not entirely (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Eugene_Corder) without foundation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Byck). And killing a president is a much smaller job than knocking down a 100-story skyscraper.

[Hokulele]

The quote in the OP is from the TFR itself. The article I linked to does quote some locals who run sight-seeing operations.
The soaring around the area is a major draw for pilots who like to fly on vacation, and even closing down one business during its busy season is, to me, excessive and a violation of many rights.


My issues were with your comments outside the quote box. I agree, there are a few businesses that will be affected, but those are only on Windward Oahu, not statewide, and if they can go through the standard TSA screening procedures (which I believe is possible for soaring operations based at Honolulu International Airport), they should be allowed to fly. Judging from various articles and reports on this, it is only unscreened flights and training flights that will be affected.

To be fair, Obama himself is not to blame--just the idiots who think that a Cessna 172 poses more danger than a Boeing 767. These idiots are known as the TSA and the FAA, and are supported by Congress


I agree 100%. I also agree with your other point that Hawai'i isn't Texas, and different rules could apply. However, I think there are more pressing issues in front of Congress at the moment, so I don't think that the negative impact on a few companies should be justification for a change of focus in government right now.

[BenBurch]

Conservatives seem to think Hawaii is just a little bigger than Key West...

[rwguinn]

Conservatives seem to think Hawaii is just a little bigger than Key West...
oahu is 44 x 30 miles, approximately. Surrounded by ocean. a 30 mile radius encompasses damn near all of it.
And Liberals are idiots who read what they want into everything written that they personally don't agree with.
Are we even, yet?

[Hokulele]

oahu is 44 x 30 miles, approximately. Surrounded by ocean. a 30 mile radius encompasses damn near all of it.


That is only Oahu. Oahu isn't even the largest island in the chain, and yet you claimed that this "essentially includes the entire state of Hawai'i". ETA: And the TFR encompassing the entire island is only true if the TFR were centered on the island. It isn't.


Back to the article in the OP, as I understood it, the 30 NM area applies to how private aircraft are communicating with Air Traffic Control, it is not a no-fly zone.

From the article I linked earlier:

Tour companies have been told they may be allowed to fly if Transportation Security Administration inspectors check out passengers and aircraft at a central airport location.

...

Air tour companies have already had one meeting with federal agencies over the restricted air space. Some still hope to come up with a solution that will keep them flying and the president safe over the holidays.

Pilots are free to soar over Maui County, Hawai'i County, and Kaua'i County in their entirety, as well as vast areas of Oahu, provided they originate and land at Honolulu International Airport. I have only seen quotes against this plan attributed to two companies, so to make the claim that this is causing any kind of disaster for the local economy is ridiculous at best, fearmongering at worst.

[MattusMaximus]

Did you read my post and the local news article I linked? The pilot training aspect is a legitimate concern. The TFR affecting the whole state and shutting down tourism-based aviation aspect, not so much.

Based on this, I would say that your comments regarding Pisci's post are wrong.

Hmmm... I seem to recall that one year ago, Mrs. Maximus and I visited Hawai'i for a couple of weeks. During that time we met with Hokulele and her Surfer Dude, and we spent much time going all over Maui and the Big Island, etc.

Oh yeah, then President-elect Obama and his family were also visiting the state, and the sky wasn't falling as a result of their visit. The state economy and tourist industry seemed to be rolling along just fine.

This OP is ludicrous - give me a break :rolleyes:

[BenBurch]

oahu is 44 x 30 miles, approximately. Surrounded by ocean. a 30 mile radius encompasses damn near all of it.
And Liberals are idiots who read what they want into everything written that they personally don't agree with.
Are we even, yet?

No, because you said "includes the entire state of Hawaii" and a 30 mile circle, half on land, is not even close to that size. A 30 mile circle on KW airport would be all of KW, as it is only 2 miles by 4 miles.

The 15 miles of the circle half on land is about 350 square miles. The area of Oahu is 596 square miles, so this is about 60% of Oahu covered.

In contrast, the island of Hawaii is just over 4000 square miles.

So, I read you right. I interpreted you right. And you said something grossly factually wrong to make political hay.

[Howie Felterbush]

How will this affect Magnum and T.C.? Will they have to walk everywhere, or just take the 308?

[Hokulele]

Anything that has the potential to ground "Dog, the Bounty Hunter" is a good thing as far as I am concerned. :cool:

[Arus808]

wow. and what of the other times that Obama has had a vacation in Hawaii? No outcry then. why now?

And I lived in Hawaii when:
1) carter visited
2) Reagan visited
3) Bush visited
4) clinton visited
5) Bush visited


Fearmongering is right

[Hokulele]

wow. and what of the other times that Obama has had a vacation in Hawaii? No outcry then. why now?

And I lived in Hawaii when:
1) carter visited
2) Reagan visited
3) Bush visited
4) clinton visited
5) Bush visited


Fearmongering is right


To be fair to rwguinn, the regulations he opposes weren't in place for 1-4. But yeah, if you read the article linked in the OP, fearmongering is definitely the word that describes it best.

[Brainster]

There are two words that convince me that the Secret Service should very much err on the side of caution when protecting Obama:

President Biden.

[Ausmerican]

To be fair, Obama himself is not to blame--just the idiots who think that a Cessna 172 poses more danger than a Boeing 767. These idiots are known as the TSA and the FAA, and are supported by Congress

So THAT'S why your thread title was "TSA & FAA shut down Hawai'i". Oh wait, no it wasn't. It kinda implied that Obama WAS to blame. And by kinda implied I mean says straight out.

[DavidJames]

It's good to know someone is carrying the load while Cicero is over in the sports forum getting everything wrong.

[pipelineaudio]

My issues were with your comments outside the quote box. I agree, there are a few businesses that will be affected, but those are only on Windward Oahu, not statewide,

To be fair, windward and leeward oahu represent about 99% of the money statewide, so its a bit of a big deal...IF it were really a shutdown.

When this was going to go down, the glider and parachute people I know were talking about having a big hoedown on Lanai, which would have meant extra money, not less.

When you throw problems at hawaiians they usually find a way to turn it into a blessing...but just for kicks, how about throwing us some non-problems for once

[KingMerv00]

Sorry Mr. President, no visiting your home state for at least another 3 years.

[rwguinn]

:rolleyes::hb:So THAT'S why your thread title was "TSA & FAA shut down Hawai'i". Oh wait, no it wasn't. It kinda implied that Obama WAS to blame. And by kinda implied I mean says straight out.

[Piscivore]

Anything that has the potential to ground "Dog, the Bounty Hunter" is a good thing as far as I am concerned. :cool:

You got that right.

[XBoxWarrior]

Does the state of Kenya allow planes?

/Call Orly now!!11111!!!
//Moran wingers at it again

[Hokulele]

To be fair, windward and leeward oahu represent about 99% of the money statewide, so its a bit of a big deal...IF it were really a shutdown.


As the restrictions mainly affect the Windward side, I wouldn't go so far as to say this will affect 99% of the money statewide. HNL is exempt from the full restrictions. In addition, if you are talking about unscheduled private flights, not the commercial stuff (which you do acknowledge with your IF), there is no way this is 99% of aviation income for the state. There are far more sightseeing flights leaving from Kahului, Lihue, and Kona than Kaneohe every day. AFAIK, there are only two companies that will effectively shut down due to this TFR.

When this was going to go down, the glider and parachute people I know were talking about having a big hoedown on Lanai, which would have meant extra money, not less.

When you throw problems at hawaiians they usually find a way to turn it into a blessing...but just for kicks, how about throwing us some non-problems for once


Very true. The shutdown that followed 9/11 had a drastic effect on the state and its economy. Obama's visits are not even close. If you want to slam Obama for a real issue relating to his trips to Hawai'i, mention the police officer who died last year escorting the motorcade. That will definitely stir up some reactions around here.

[Dr Adequate]

There are two words that convince me that the Secret Service should very much err on the side of caution when protecting Obama:

President Biden. Oddly enough, those are the two words that convince me that they needn't try too hard ...

[pipelineaudio]

Oddly enough, those are the two words that convince me that they needn't try too hard ...

Biden has the power and the will to undo all the damage in the eyes of the music community regarding the democrat party that Gore caused. I don't see anything wrong with hearing "president Biden" in any way shape or form. Obama hasnt done a single damn thing to undo the damage to the media Clinton/Bush caused, while Biden had been quite vocal about his opposition to broadcast consolidation before he made his bid for vp

[mortimer]

Very true. The shutdown that followed 9/11 had a drastic effect on the state and its economy. Obama's visits are not even close.
I'm sure we would have stopped 9/11 from happening if we had the choice, for this, and many other reasons. I don't think the two are really comparable.

[quadraginta]

Biden has the power and the will to undo all the damage in the eyes of the music community regarding the democrat party that Gore caused. I don't see anything wrong with hearing "president Biden" in any way shape or form. Obama hasnt done a single damn thing to undo the damage to the media Clinton/Bush caused, while Biden had been quite vocal about his opposition to broadcast consolidation before he made his bid for vp


This is a remarkably refreshing example of issue based politics.

Thank you.

(And I really mean that. :))

[Hokulele]

I'm sure we would have stopped 9/11 from happening if we had the choice, for this, and many other reasons. I don't think the two are really comparable.


In terms of economic impact, I agree, the two aren't comparable at all, and yet the article linked in the OP certainly tried to make that case.

[rwguinn]

This is a remarkably refreshing example of issue based politics.

Thank you.

(And I really mean that. :))

In terms of economic impact, I agree, the two aren't comparable at all, and yet the article linked in the OP certainly tried to make that case.
See above. The aviation community (Especially General Aviation) is as single-issue as the NRA, right-to-life, anti-abortion, and others of that ilk.
Many (if not most) GA business are always on a fine line between life and death. I still maintain that causing a single business failure due to something like this is unacceptable.

[Hokulele]

And I will wait to see if a single business fails due to this visit before I go up in arms about it.

[quadraginta]

My apologies if I have confused. My comment to pipelineaudio was off-topic, and not meant as a general reflection on the OP.

I sincerely enjoyed a political concern that wasn't on most lists of "talking points".

[Brainster]

Biden has the power and the will to undo all the damage in the eyes of the music community regarding the democrat party that Gore caused. I don't see anything wrong with hearing "president Biden" in any way shape or form.

Even if it takes the death of President Obama to hear those words?
:rolleyes:

[BenBurch]

My apologies if I have confused. My comment to pipelineaudio was off-topic, and not meant as a general reflection on the OP.

I sincerely enjoyed a political concern that wasn't on most lists of "talking points".

Except this was on the list, apparently, as the right-wing talkers have taken it to the airwaves...

[pipelineaudio]

Except this was on the list, apparently, as the right-wing talkers have taken it to the airwaves...

Musicians' concerns are right wing talking points?

[BenBurch]

Musicians' concerns are right wing talking points?

No, the airspace thing.

[Dancing David]

Considering that this will have almost no impact on tourist travel (the vast majority of unscheduled tourists flights take place on the neighbor islands), the bit about sight-seeing is mildly incorrect and the bit about island-hopping is completely incorrect. The industry that will see the largest impact is pilot training, and since they have been steadily pummeled by regulations since 9/11, this is more of an insult to injury situation than anything else.

Although there was a piece on this on the local news last night, the OP seems to be an exaggeration of how most people out here view the visit.


ETA: And the bit about affecting the entire state? Please. Hawai'i is a bit larger than 30 NM across. Here is the local write-up on this.

http://www.kitv.com/money/22031180/detail.html

Locals sets story straight, news at SIX...