Vatican clears "The Simpsons" for the flock

[epix]

L'Osservatore Romano uttered a kind word on its pages for the 20th anniversary of the Simpson cartoon family making its TV debut. The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine. But since forgiveness is one of the pillars of Roman Catholicism, it did arrive after 20 years -- twice as fast as the shining light of forgiveness that kindly illuminated John Lennon after 40 years of darkness and opened the ear to his music for all Roman Catholics worldwide. Grazie, Signore.

[Denver]

With Rev Lovejoy's church not being Catholic, can you post a reference where the Vatican feels "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine."?

[epix]

With Rev Lovejoy's church not being Catholic, can you post a reference where the Vatican feels "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine."?
Explanation in the next post...

[epix]

With Rev Lovejoy's church not being Catholic, can you post a reference where the Vatican feels "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine."?
I didn't have the slightest idea that the cartoon church has a different denomination -- I never watched The Simpsons. Hence my assumption. But that means something else irritated the Holy See, and I'm positive this time that it must have been this:

Q: You poke a lot of fun at organized religion. Do you believe in God, and what is the most comical story in the Bible?

A: I was very disturbed when Jesus found a demon in a guy and He put the demon into a herd of pigs, then sent them off a cliff. What did the pigs do? I could never figure that out. It just seemed very un-Christian. Technically, I'm an agnostic, but I definitely believe in hell -- especially after watching the fall TV schedule.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/27/magazine/on-sunday-december-27-1998-questions-for-matt-groening.html

[Cainkane1]

When it comes to movies, literature etc when I find out what the vatican doesn't like i pretty much read and watch what they say I shouldn't see and read.

[Denver]

I didn't have the slightest idea that the cartoon church has a different denomination -- I never watched The Simpsons. Hence my assumption. But that means something else irritated the Holy See, and I'm positive this time that it must have been this:...

I see your quote by Groening from 1998, but again, I still don't see you referencing anything justifying your statements above. When I research the Vatican article you mentioned, all I find them doing is congratulaing the Simpson's on their 20th anniversay.

In your latest one here, can you cite where the Vatican is or was irritated by the Simpsons?

[I Ratant]

When it comes to movies, literature etc when I find out what the vatican doesn't like i pretty much read and watch what they say I shouldn't see and read.
.
I was musing earlier today on dirty movies.
The "National Legion of Decency" way back when would list movies that attending them would be a mortal sin.
I was wondering where in the dogma of the RC church a group of believers were granted the authority to pronounce any activity a mortal sin, other than those we learned about in Religion class at St. Franny X, from Sister Mary Agnes Caligula.
And way back when, I went to see some of those listed movies, and found nothing worth being condemned for.
There's similar to worse stuff on prime time tv today.

[epix]

I see your quote by Groening from 1998, but again, I still don't see you referencing anything justifying your statements above. When I research the Vatican article you mentioned, all I find them doing is congratulaing the Simpson's on their 20th anniversay.

In your latest one here, can you cite where the Vatican is or was irritated by the Simpsons?

You are very scantily familiar with the "body moves" that Vatican makes. You saw the quote by Groening but that needs some degree of comprehension on your part to understand why L'Obsservatore decided to run a congratulatory article on the cartoon. Groenig made a very contraversial comment about Jesus in The New York Times, which is a very respected media. Obviously, Groenig and the US journalism were forgiven via The Simpsons. When you cite L'Ossevatore displaying a great deal of irritation by John Lennon and his comment about Jesus, maybe I look into the archives.

I thought that something in the script of an episode made the Vatican unhappy, but it wasn't so, even though slight confusion did exist:

Vatican paper says ‘Simpsons’ are okely dokely
L'Osservatore Romano says Homer’s religious confusion mirrors man’s
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34538104/ns/entertainment-television/

For those Roman Catholics who may have privately objected to religious views in the cartoon, the L'Osservatore article is a nice invitation to some reruns.

[Lisa Simpson]

Reverend Lovejoy is a Presbylutheranism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_The_Simpsons#The_Western_Branch_of_Ame rican_Reform_Presbylutheranism) minister.

[Denver]

I still don't get what you're saying.

You are very scantily familiar with the "body moves" that Vatican makes.

"body moves"?

You saw the quote by Groening but that needs some degree of comprehension on your part to understand why L'Obsservatore decided to run a congratulatory article on the cartoon. Groenig made a very contraversial comment about Jesus in The New York Times...

Over 10 years ago...

which is a very respected media. Obviously, Groenig and the US journalism were forgiven via The Simpsons.

"Forgiven" would imply the Vatican had previously had some kind of disapproval with them, which you still have yet to cite. I'm not saying they didn't... but I've yet to see any quote to that effect.

When you cite L'Ossevatore displaying a great deal of irritation by John Lennon and his comment about Jesus, maybe I look into the archives.
I thought that something in the script of an episode made the Vatican unhappy, but it wasn't so, even though slight confusion did exist:

Vatican paper says ‘Simpsons’ are okely dokely
L'Osservatore Romano says Homer’s religious confusion mirrors man’s
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34538104/ns/entertainment-television/


I don't mean any disrespect, but is English not your primary language? The confusion they are discussing seems to be in praise of the Simpson's, not to accuse it of anything.

For those Roman Catholics who may have privately objected to religious views in the cartoon, the L'Osservatore article is a nice invitation to some reruns.

I don't think I've ever met anyone, Roman Catholic or otherwise, who has expressed an objection to the Simpsons on religious grounds.

[epix]

I still don't get what you're saying.

"Forgiven" would imply the Vatican had previously had some kind of disapproval with them, which you still have yet to cite. I'm not saying they didn't... but I've yet to see any quote to that effect.
Did the Vatican have some disapproval with John Lennon that can be cited? I asked you in plain English to post the citation, coz you are asking me for something that is not easy to retrieve over the Internet. It's like claiming that God is real and the burden is on someone else to disprove the claim. You've been picking bad habits hanging around the monks...



I don't mean any disrespect, but is English not your primary language? The confusion they are discussing seems to be in praise of the Simpson's, not to accuse it of anything.
LOL. Well, if the Vatican paper decides to send out an all-forgiven-just-don't-do-it-again message to that dude who publicly badmouthed Jesus, then slight praise is likely to show up rather than condemnation. I don't mean any disrespect, but is the earth your primary planet to live on?

Incidently, why would the Vatican congratulate the TV show to its 20th anniversary? There are other, longer running TV shows, which the Vatican left alone on their anniversaries. Any idea?



I don't think I've ever met anyone, Roman Catholic or otherwise, who has expressed an objection to the Simpsons on religious grounds.

Thanks God for that. :D

[Denver]

Did the Vatican have some disapproval with John Lennon that can be cited? I asked you in plain English to post the citation, coz you are asking me for something that is not easy to retrieve over the Internet. It's like claiming that God is real and the burden is on someone else to disprove the claim. You've been picking bad habits hanging around the monks...

If you'd like to discuss John Lennon, or the existence of God, it would be best to start a new thread on that. In this one, you said "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine."

I've asked for you to post a reference where the Vatican feels or has said that, to back up your claim. So far you have not done so. So I am left with the conclusion that you either misread the article, or just made up the claim.

LOL. Well, if the Vatican paper decides to send out an all-forgiven-just-don't-do-it-again message to that dude who publicly badmouthed Jesus, then slight praise is likely to show up rather than condemnation. I don't mean any disrespect, but is the earth your primary planet to live on?


Again, the article does not say the Vatican is forgiving anyone for anything. It' mostly just congratulates it on the 20th anniversary of the show.

Incidently, why would the Vatican congratulate the TV show to its 20th anniversary? There are other, longer running TV shows, which the Vatican left alone on their anniversaries. Any idea?

It wasn't solely congratulatory: it added there was some reason to criticize its ''excessively crude language, the violence of certain episodes or some extreme choices by the scriptwriters.''

But as to the part that was congratulatory, perhaps because the Simpson's anniversary gave them a chance to comment on things like God, religion, theology, philosophy, and faith (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/12/23/arts/AP-EU-TV-Vatican-The-Simpsons.html?_r=1) in a widely published format that a young or old audience might read? All that does seem to be part of its job, after all. Or maybe it was just good PR?

But that still doesn't answer the question as to why you said "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine.", but you can't show anything to back up your claim there.

[hgc]

epix, just a suggestion: Post the evidence or stop making the claim.

[Darth Rotor]

Most catholics that I know, in America, pay scant attention to what the Vatican has to say about American TV and which shows are "approved" or not.

DR

[elbe]

From what I can recall, the simpsons has been, overall, rather neutral to positive about catholics. They don't go the same route as other shows who lampoon the religion.

[mikeyx]

With Rev Lovejoy's church not being Catholic, can you post a reference where the Vatican feels "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine."?

maybe the catholics should just realize that they are the religious monopoly, all faiths share the same basic truths until the human factor tends to mess it up

[Donal]

You know, if a guy has a wife and daughter, like Reverend Timothy Lovejoy does, it is usually a pretty good indicator he is in fact not a Catholic priest (yes, I'm aware of certain special cases in places like southern Africa).

When said character is upset when a priest voiced by Liam Neeson is trying to woo Homer and Bart to Catholicism, that is also usually a pretty good indicator he is not a Catholic priest.

So, epix, after seeing you admit you know nothing about the Simpsons and that the statement issued was one of congratulations and not forgiveness, one might reason that you were simply taking the opportunity to take a petty shot at the Vatican.

[epix]

So, epix, after seeing you admit you know nothing about the Simpsons and that the statement issued was one of congratulations and not forgiveness, one might reason that you were simply taking the opportunity to take a petty shot at the Vatican.
I see that unlike Denver, you actually read what I wrote and you're right. I just wanted to join the barrage of petty shots -- not all of them heard loud enough:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/25/arts/television/25arts-VATICANGIVES_BRF.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091223/ap_en_tv/eu_tv_vatican_the_simpsons

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/simpsons-praised-vaticans-newspaper-losservatore-romano-2544092.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/news/bal-vatican-simpsons-1223,0,2762014.story

http://www.cathnewsusa.com/article.aspx?aeid=18490

http://tweetmeme.com/story/377678983/the-simpsons-praised-in-vaticans-newspaper-losservatore-romano-nowpublic-news-coverage

http://www.keegy.com/post/the-simpsons-praised-in-vatican-s-newspaper-l-osservatore-romano/

http://astonmartinnews.com/story/377678983/the-simpsons-praised-in-vaticans-newspaper-losservatore-romano-nowpublic-news-coverage

http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Vatican-paper-says-The-Simpsons-are-okely-dokely-1305830.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/22/vatican-paper-oks-the-sim_n_401131.html

...and so it goes -- ammunition aplenty.

[hgc]

Are you still claiming that, "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine?"

Thanks for posting a bunch of links to the same story you posted in #4. Is there any evidence for your claim buried in any of those?

[epix]

Are you still claiming that, "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine?"

Thanks for posting a bunch of links to the same story you posted in #4. Is there any evidence for your claim buried in any of those?

Too bad that you took the sentence "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine" literally. The synonymal meaning of the Vatican being slightly concerned about a very popular TV cartoon, which "has mocked or satirized religion many, many times" [NYT] reeks of it. When I wrote the sentence, I didn't anticipate such a degree of naivete, that would actually envision Nielsen-like rating system that the Vatican would publish on a regular basis, which I am asked to provide a link to.

I pretty much explained the "official doctrine," when alerted to the fact that the cartoon minister doesn't run a RC church. None of my questions were answered, and I don't really want to get engaged in arguments based on some medieval syllogism practiced around the time when pope Stephen VI ordered an exhumation for the purpose of a public excommunication.

[hgc]

Too bad that you took the sentence "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine" literally. The synonymal meaning of the Vatican being slightly concerned about a very popular TV cartoon, which "has mocked or satirized religion many, many times" [NYT] reeks of it. When I wrote the sentence, I didn't anticipate such a degree of naivete, that would actually envision Nielsen-like rating system that the Vatican would publish on a regular basis, which I am asked to provide a link to.


"Reeks of it." Best evidence yet.

[Donal]

I see that unlike Denver, you actually read what I wrote and you're right. I just wanted to join the barrage of petty shots -- not all of them heard loud enough:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/25/arts/television/25arts-VATICANGIVES_BRF.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091223/ap_en_tv/eu_tv_vatican_the_simpsons

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/simpsons-praised-vaticans-newspaper-losservatore-romano-2544092.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/news/bal-vatican-simpsons-1223,0,2762014.story

http://www.cathnewsusa.com/article.aspx?aeid=18490

http://tweetmeme.com/story/377678983/the-simpsons-praised-in-vaticans-newspaper-losservatore-romano-nowpublic-news-coverage

http://www.keegy.com/post/the-simpsons-praised-in-vatican-s-newspaper-l-osservatore-romano/

http://astonmartinnews.com/story/377678983/the-simpsons-praised-in-vaticans-newspaper-losservatore-romano-nowpublic-news-coverage

http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Vatican-paper-says-The-Simpsons-are-okely-dokely-1305830.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/22/vatican-paper-oks-the-sim_n_401131.html

...and so it goes -- ammunition aplenty.


uh...what?

All of those articles just echo the first one.

You're just proving my point.

[Donal]

Too bad that you took the sentence "The cartoon hasn't received much of a high rating in Vatican due to Rev. Lovejoy, a character in the series whose theological views deviate a bit from the official doctrine" literally. The synonymal meaning of the Vatican being slightly concerned about a very popular TV cartoon, which "has mocked or satirized religion many, many times" [NYT] reeks of it. When I wrote the sentence, I didn't anticipate such a degree of naivete, that would actually envision Nielsen-like rating system that the Vatican would publish on a regular basis, which I am asked to provide a link to.

I pretty much explained the "official doctrine," when alerted to the fact that the cartoon minister doesn't run a RC church. None of my questions were answered, and I don't really want to get engaged in arguments based on some medieval syllogism practiced around the time when pope Stephen VI ordered an exhumation for the purpose of a public excommunication.


You've just lost all control and are just trying to worm your way out, aren't you.

Just admit you messed up and drop it.

[epix]

Just admit you messed up and drop it.

:confused:

I pretty much explained the "official doctrine," when alerted to the fact that the cartoon minister doesn't run a RC church. None of my questions were answered, and I don't really want to get engaged in arguments based on some medieval syllogism practiced around the time when pope Stephen VI ordered an exhumation for the purpose of a public excommunication.

Does the above sounds like I can't wait to see another request for a link to the Vatican's TV rating index?

[epix]

uh...what?

All of those articles just echo the first one.

LOL. That's what religion is all about, isn't it?

[hgc]

:confused:

I pretty much explained the "official doctrine," when alerted to the fact that the cartoon minister doesn't run a RC church. None of my questions were answered, and I don't really want to get engaged in arguments based on some medieval syllogism practiced around the time when pope Stephen VI ordered an exhumation for the purpose of a public excommunication.

Does the above sounds like I can't wait to see another request for a link to the Vatican's TV rating index?


You're the one who said it "hasn't received much of a high rating." No one thinks that there is an official ratings index. You are being pressed to provide evidence for your statement, whatever it means. If it's anything other than jibberish, then it means that in some way, shape or form, the Vatican had a negative opinion of The Simpsons, and you even claim it's due to the Rev. Lovejoy character. But you continue to refuse to provide any evidence that the Vatican ever had this low opinion. You only point out an article where Matt Groening make a harmless joke about Jesus and pigs.

Again -- you made claim. You continue to make it. Bring the evidence.

[theprestige]

maybe the catholics should just realize that they are the religious monopoly, all faiths share the same basic truths until the human factor tends to mess it up
I'm pretty sure youre "all faiths" point contradicts your "religious monopoly" point. Also, I think you missed the general trend of the discussion, which is that the Catholic Church doesn't really care about the Simpsons, and most Catholics make up their own minds about the show.

[MysteryMammal]

Most catholics that I know, in America, pay scant attention to what the Vatican has to say about American TV and which shows are "approved" or not.

DR

I have seen much the same thing from my Catholic friends. The biggest Simpsons fan I know of is a devout Catholic friend of mine who has been watching the Simpsons since the first season. Truth be told, I didn't even know that the Vatican worked as a television watchdog group.

[hgc]

Truth be told, I didn't even know that the Vatican worked as a television watchdog group.


They don't.

(But there might be these mysterious signals, sent to the properly initiated, and called "body moves.")

[Darth Rotor]

I have seen much the same thing from my Catholic friends. The biggest Simpsons fan I know of is a devout Catholic friend of mine who has been watching the Simpsons since the first season. Truth be told, I didn't even know that the Vatican worked as a television watchdog group.
I suspect that they keep losing the ****** remote, which would curtail their ability to do so. :D

[fullflavormenthol]

Reverend Lovejoy is a Presbylutheranism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_The_Simpsons#The_Western_Branch_of_Ame rican_Reform_Presbylutheranism) minister.
Exactly. Actually I always had assumed that the Church was an analogue to any episcopacy Protestant church. And then of course the episode you mentioned pretty much settled any debate. Still I can't imagine how anyone could watch the Simpsons and assume that Lovejoy was Catholic.

[Redtail]

Exactly. Actually I always had assumed that the Church was an analogue to any episcopacy Protestant church. And then of course the episode you mentioned pretty much settled any debate. Still I can't imagine how anyone could watch the Simpsons and assume that Lovejoy was Catholic.

The collar and the speech pattern.

Baptist, Pentecostal and Methodist tend not to wear the collar (in the South anyway) and Catholic priests are considered somewhat boring and monotone.

[fullflavormenthol]

The collar and the speech pattern.

Baptist, Pentecostal and Methodist tend not to wear the collar (in the South anyway) and Catholic priests are considered somewhat boring and monotone.
True, but I always associated it more towards the Episcopal myself; but never the less I can see your point, and I would suppose to the casual viewer without much exposure to the different Protestant denominations an assumption of Catholicism could be made.

[Aepervius]

Wake me up when they ask the whole world to pardon them for burning bruno giordano.

[Howie Felterbush]

I don't know anything about the show's stance on Catholicism, but I do know Grandpa Simpson is scared of Unitarians.