TimCallahan
29th December 2009, 11:39 AM
In Matthew 18:15 - 17 (RSV) Jesus says:
"If your brother has sins against ou, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."
On a separate thread, I argued that this passage should mean that Christians are constrained to avoid conflict and to seek the most amicable settlement of differences, rather than immediately jumping to, for example, a lawsuit. The context of my making this argument ws that a fundamentalist high school kid, Chad Farnan, had sued one of his teachers, James Corbett for violating his civiil rights, bacause Corbett had referred to creationism as "religious superstitious nonsense." I asked Corbett, who had joined the thread debating his actions if Farnan had first approached him privately, then gone to the principal, then the school board, seeking redress for his complaint before jumping into a lawsuit. It turns out he did not first approach Corbett, nr did he make a complaint to either the principal or the school board. Instead, he went right to the lawsuit. I contended that Farnan's actions betrayed the teachings of Jesus in the passage above.
AvalonXQ, one of our Christian posters, responded that it and other, similar passages in the New Testament ". . . are understood to refer to those within the family of God, not those outside it. In other words, keep your quarrels with other church members within the church, but outside the church the Law can arbitrate." He also points out that treating a brother as a Gentile as the last resort means the wasn't menat for outsiders.
I responded by quoting Luke 6:32, 33, where Jesus says:
"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same."
It woud seem to me that these, and other, passages in the NT are to be taken as absolute and universal. Yet, given the actions of Chad Farnan and the argument posed by Avalon HQ, I have examples of Christians arguing that such generous and fogiving behavior is menat to be directed only to coreligionists, not outsiders. Doesn't this make such values situtional?
"If your brother has sins against ou, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."
On a separate thread, I argued that this passage should mean that Christians are constrained to avoid conflict and to seek the most amicable settlement of differences, rather than immediately jumping to, for example, a lawsuit. The context of my making this argument ws that a fundamentalist high school kid, Chad Farnan, had sued one of his teachers, James Corbett for violating his civiil rights, bacause Corbett had referred to creationism as "religious superstitious nonsense." I asked Corbett, who had joined the thread debating his actions if Farnan had first approached him privately, then gone to the principal, then the school board, seeking redress for his complaint before jumping into a lawsuit. It turns out he did not first approach Corbett, nr did he make a complaint to either the principal or the school board. Instead, he went right to the lawsuit. I contended that Farnan's actions betrayed the teachings of Jesus in the passage above.
AvalonXQ, one of our Christian posters, responded that it and other, similar passages in the New Testament ". . . are understood to refer to those within the family of God, not those outside it. In other words, keep your quarrels with other church members within the church, but outside the church the Law can arbitrate." He also points out that treating a brother as a Gentile as the last resort means the wasn't menat for outsiders.
I responded by quoting Luke 6:32, 33, where Jesus says:
"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same."
It woud seem to me that these, and other, passages in the NT are to be taken as absolute and universal. Yet, given the actions of Chad Farnan and the argument posed by Avalon HQ, I have examples of Christians arguing that such generous and fogiving behavior is menat to be directed only to coreligionists, not outsiders. Doesn't this make such values situtional?