All the presidents (wo)men......

[!Kaggen]

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-01-04-all-the-presidents-women

corruption, rape, adultery, songs about machine guns and polygamy

what an inspirational leader :rolleyes:

Oh well we have the World Cup to hide behind

[WildCat]

He likes them big and heavy I see.

[Eddie Dane]

If I had more than one wife, I'd sing about machine guns too. :)

I'm not sure if I'm against him being polygamous. He's from a very different culture than me. Apparently, if you hit the bigtime in SA, you're allowed to shag the Weather Girls. To each his own.

Rape charges, corruption etc. not exactly what I'd look for in a national leader.

[!Kaggen]

If I had more than one wife, I'd sing about machine guns too. :)


LOL, good point :)

[!Kaggen]

He likes them big and heavy I see.

Funny that..
Its a cultural symbol of wealth out here.
Perhaps even a global culture with obesity in wealthy countries on the rise.

Took my family to the beach the other day though and the two gorgeous topless girls next to us canceled that idea when they took out their iPhones and started talking an indigenous language with the queens English inbetween.
Their guy friends though still believe in obesity.

I am told this generation is called "the black diamonds".
Hmm.. lets hope they bring prosperity like there cousins ...

[Peephole]

Anything but polygamy!

[Peephole]

This is an awesome song by the way:

rsoZRBZvdOc

[!Kaggen]

I am not sure which one is more scary :eek:

This is an awesome song by the way:

rsoZRBZvdOc

or

lof6XJ8b1SU

[Redtail]

He likes them big and heavy I see.

Well they do keep you warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

[DarthFishy]

And he wasn't even born in America!

Oh wait wrong president :p

[!Kaggen]

And he wasn't even born in America!

Oh wait wrong president :p

Ja nee:D

[Skeptic]

Culture here is all-important. Apparently in his culture (from what I can tell) marrying many heavy wives is what a successful man is supposed to do. So this would hardly be evidence of anything particularly nefarious in itself.

[The Atheist]

The polygamist President of South Africa marries again, bringing his current wife total to three (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10618635).

As noted in the linked article, this hardly seems the kind of behaviour one expects from a modern nation in 2010.

White and coloured South Africans continue to leave in droves as the nation continues its inevitable downwards spiral to third world status.

[lionking]

Yes, but I don't think he has been the disaster some foresaw. So far.

[r0ast_p0tat0es]

Yes, and let's ask former President Clinton and Prime Minister Berlusconi how well monogamy works for them. I don't know why Zuma wants to marry so many women - I'm not a Zulu. It's how they do things. Frankly, I think it's better than building a monogamous marriage which is nothing more than a facade.

Downward spiral into third-world status? Huh. What would that feel like? Would it feel like the thousands of cars which some yobs decided to burn in the streets of Paris on New Years' Eve? One brick got thrown out of a window in Hillbrow and broke a police car's windshield and it was front-page news. Honestly.

[The Atheist]

Yes, but I don't think he has been the disaster some foresaw. So far.

No, but then again, Mugabe looked like a top bloke in his early years.

Downward spiral into third-world status? Huh. What would that feel like? Would it feel like the thousands of cars which some yobs decided to burn in the streets of Paris on New Years' Eve? One brick got thrown out of a window in Hillbrow and broke a police car's windshield and it was front-page news. Honestly.

Why are so many whites & coloureds leaving then?

Has crime in Jo'burg been sorted out?

Mate, I hope you're right, RSA is a great country with enormous potential. I just doubt the intentions of Zuma and his cronies.

We also need you as opponents.

[dudalb]

Yes, but I don't think he has been the disaster some foresaw. So far.

Agreed, but are too many simulariaties between his personality and that of the Glorious Leader of Zimbabwe to be comfortable.

[theprestige]

As noted in the linked article, this hardly seems the kind of behaviour one expects from a modern nation in 2010.
The Atheist, what would you say is the defining characteristic of modernity that causes you to expect that it would not include polygamy?

[lionking]

Agreed, but are too many simulariaties between his personality and that of the Glorious Leader of Zimbabwe to be comfortable.
That was my initial impression of him, but it looks like he may have been taking wise advice (not about matrimony though).

[r0ast_p0tat0es]

Why are so many whites & coloureds leaving then?

Has crime in Jo'burg been sorted out?

Mate, I hope you're right, RSA is a great country with enormous potential. I just doubt the intentions of Zuma and his cronies.

We also need you as opponents.

Well, that's my point. There are real issues that need dealing with, and focussing needlessly on how many wives the President has detracts from that. Why is having more than one wife objectively any worse than only having one? Why do people get married at all? I sure as hell don't know. Surely it's all just an artifact of one's culture? How does it affect you or me in the slightest?

But I'm also pissed at the fatalist attitude so many people take towards my country in particular, when clearly the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. Our money is based on oil, and the oil is running out. I'm glad I live in a country which doesn't feel compelled to go to war over that just yet, and which has been making oil from coal for the last forty-odd years.

By the way, a hell of a lot of people are coming back now that they've lost their jobs overseas.

[lionking]

Completely off topic, but what did you think of the movie "Invictus" r0ast p0tat0es?

[r0ast_p0tat0es]

As I said in the other thread...

Your cultural bias is showing. Why should anyone care how many wives he chooses to inflict upon himself?

We have real problems to deal with. Let's focus on those.

Besides, it's not like great leaders of the free world are so much better. I'd still rather have Zuma than Berlusconi.

[Peephole]

Lol, "not behaviour one expects from a modern nation".

Sorry to inform you, but your racism is showing.

[The Atheist]

The Atheist, what would you say is the defining characteristic of modernity that causes you to expect that it would not include polygamy?

It isn't a defining characteristic, but it does show a certain mindset and arrogance.

I don't think they're great things for a crucial country in the future development of Africa, which is already somewhat on the messy side.

Well, that's my point. There are real issues that need dealing with, and focussing needlessly on how many wives the President has detracts from that. Why is having more than one wife objectively any worse than only having one? Why do people get married at all? I sure as hell don't know. Surely it's all just an artifact of one's culture? How does it affect you or me in the slightest?

I agree it's a minor issue, but Zuma has a considerable number of issues and this is just the latest. I have been critical of him since pre-election.

Do you think the negative publicity on this type of issue will ultimately help Zuma gain credence and acceptance outside of the tribal areas?

But I'm also pissed at the fatalist attitude so many people take towards my country in particular, when clearly the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. Our money is based on oil, and the oil is running out. I'm glad I live in a country which doesn't feel compelled to go to war over that just yet, and which has been making oil from coal for the last forty-odd years.

You haven't answered the crime question.

The oil from coal is a legacy of Apartheid.

You're right that RSA has strong natural resources.

But Zimbo was the bread basket of Africa only a few years ago. Things change without progress and I don't see Zuma being the progressive man needed. As I say, I hope I'm wrong.

By the way, a hell of a lot of people are coming back now that they've lost their jobs overseas.

Yet the ones that have come here [and are still arriving] are fighting tooth and nail to stay. I know of several Saffer houses with 12-15 people living in them as they desperately try to stay rather than return.

Lol, not behaviour one expects from a modern nation".

Wow, you win this week's gingernut prize.

In ~13,000 posts, I'm pretty sure that's the first time someone's said "lol" to me.

Sorry to inform you, but your racism is showing.


Heck, you could be right - I keep forgetting that I'm racist.

Sending my kids to a school where whites are only 14% of the roll makes me forget it all of the time - thanks for reminding me.

[gtc]

whites are only 14% of the roll

By number or by volume?

[!Kaggen]

As I said in the other thread...

Your cultural bias is showing. Why should anyone care how many wives he chooses to inflict upon himself?

We have real problems to deal with. Let's focus on those.

Besides, it's not like great leaders of the free world are so much better. I'd still rather have Zuma than Berlusconi.

Its got nothing to do with cultural bias its got to do with a job description. Being President of a democracy has nothing to do with status, but everything to do with hard work. Especially since as you pointed out we have plench problems to deal with and anyone with "a" wife/family knows that this is already a handful.

The culture of democracy demands that those voted into power give attention to their constituents. This is in direct conflict with the cultural derivative of status polygamy.

We have gone from struggle leaders who were chosen because of their willingness to sacrifice for their people to status leaders chosen because they express the unrealistic aspirations of the culturally defunct first generation urban youth.

Instead of building a culture of democracy, Zuma like Mugabe did before him, is using our new democracy to promote a pseudo-cultural conflict by appealing to various forms of superstition.

This approach is justified with the same arguments used by Verwoed et alto justify the superstitious cultural conflict implicit in the philosophy of apartheid and once again we forgive them because of the guilt of losing our own superstitions.

[!Kaggen]

Lol, "not behaviour one expects from a modern nation".

Sorry to inform you, but your racism is showing.


I will reply the same way

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5487758#post5487758

as in the thread I started on the same subject

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=163970

[The Atheist]

By number or by volume?

Number.

By volume, about 2%

I will reply the same way

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5487758#post5487758

as in the thread I started on the same subject

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=163970

Well said.

Sorry about the duplicate thread; I've asked that they be merged. I searched first and didn't see your one.

[lionking]

I will reply the same way

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5487758#post5487758

as in the thread I started on the same subject

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=163970
Perhaps you should ask a mod to merge the two threads?

[!Kaggen]

How rude of me:o
Welcome to JREF rOast_pOtatOes:)

[Skwinty]

The oil from coal is a legacy of Apartheid.



It was more a legacy from Nazi Germany.

[Undesired Walrus]

Why are so many whites & coloureds leaving then?


Ugh.

[Cuddles]

Threads on same subject merged. Apologies for any confusion resulting from mixing up posts.

[lionking]

Ugh.
"Coloureds" is what the non-white, non-africans call themselves. Or am I misinterpreting your "ugh"?

[Undesired Walrus]

"Coloureds" is what the non-white, non-africans call themselves.

That shouldn't matter. Horrible word. Ugh.

[lionking]

That shouldn't matter. Horrible word. Ugh.
What do you mean it shouldn't matter?

ETA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured


The term Coloured is also used to describe persons of mixed race in Namibia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namibia), to refer to those of part Khoisan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khoi), part white (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whites) descent. The Basters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baster) of Namibia constitute a separate ethnic group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group) that are sometimes considered a sub-group of the Coloured population of that country. Under South African rule, the policies and laws of apartheid were extended to what was then called South West Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_West_Africa), and the treatment of Namibian Coloureds was comparable to that of South African Coloureds.
The term Coloured or 'Goffal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goffal)' is also used in Zimbabwe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe), where, unlike South Africa and Namibia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namibia), most people of mixed race have African (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_(people)) and European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whites) ancestry, being descended from the offspring of European men and Shona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona_people) and Ndebele (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ndebele_people_(Zimbabwe)) women; under white minority rule in the then Rhodesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesia), Coloureds had more privileges than black Africans, including full voting rights, but still faced serious discrimination. In Swaziland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaziland), the term Coloured is also used.

[Undesired Walrus]

We're all 'coloured', each and every one of us. Black or white.

[lionking]

Okay. It's off topic anyway, but to the coloureds in africa the word does mean something, and not something with the baggage you probably ascribe to it. Time to move on I think.

[Peephole]

What's up with those backwards n***ers and their multiple wives, right you guys?

[gtc]

What's up with those backwards n***ers and their multiple wives, right you guys?

Is this some kind of belated Christmas present for The Atheist? I know he enjoys laughing at the silly things people say about him.

[Skeptic]

The big, big problem of African nations is incredible corruption. The government de facto exists as a job factory for cronies and a permission to steal whatever they can to Swiss bank accounts. This is why all the foreign aid goes nowhere except for the local dictator's coffers.

The issue is how Zuma will do there. So far I am giving him the benefit of the doubt because he did take some good advice (for example about AIDS treatment) from professional people. If he does the same about corruption, things might be fine despite him having three wives. If he installs a corrupt government, South Africa will become like the rest of Africa.

Countries can (often quite easily, in fact) survive nutty leaders if they just ignore them as much as possible, as long as the system of government is not ruined by corruption. One thing: it is not hard to predict that if he ruins the country, then the more obvious it becomes it is going down the drain, the more people will shout "RACIST!" at critics.

[!Kaggen]

That shouldn't matter. Horrible word. Ugh.

We're all 'coloured', each and every one of us. Black or white.

"Coloureds" is what the non-white, non-africans call themselves.

That shouldn't matter. Horrible word. Ugh.

Hmm...lets ask my wife who calls herself, her family "coloured":rolleyes:

The dilemma is what are we going to call our kids :boggled:

I personally don't like any cultural labels.

I think it is very relevant to the OP because it brings up the problem of cultural identity in South Africa and the superstitious need to identify with a specific culture and its baggage.

The sooner we can outgrow this the sooner we can move on to pressing matters, such as education, jobs and crime.