You Want More Proof?

[Iacchus]

The following is my last post (445th) regarding my 444th post on the thread, You Want Proof? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33470&pagenumber=4)

While I decided to post it here so we could begin the discussion anew ... basically this "thing" I do with numbers.

Originally posted by RussDill
Originally posted by Iacchus

And there you have it folks, the 444th post (http://www.dionysus.org/). Which, suggests to me, everything is right about in sink.

Let's see ... 123 + 444 = 567. Ok, and if absolutely nothing changes, does that indicate to you that your numerology is bunk? Have you ever looked at the moby dick version of the bible code?I'm glad you acknowledged that, so now I can continue ...

According to the Menorah on the Front Cover (http://www.dionysus.org), I've plotted the six "basic" colors (the three primary and three secondary) and the color white according to the following numbers ... Red (1), orange (2), yellow (3), white (4), green (5), blue (6) and violet (7).

Now I normally wouldn't have brought it up (by the way I didn't plan it this way either ;)) except, that the number 444 is central to the whole theme of the meditation and the avatar.

So, when you multiply 3 x 41 you get 123; and, when you multilply 7 x 81 you get 567. Now that doesn't seem like a big deal but, when you multiply 37 x 12 you get -- 444. So there you have it, the two basic colors of the meditation -- yellow (3) and violet (7) -- and, the color white (444), thus signifying the full spectrum or, "white light."

Just a coincidence you think?

[Nyarlathotep]

Since you just posted your same post in a differnet thread. I'll Just repeat my reply.

Yes I do. If you look hard enough and play enough games with numbers, you can link just about anything to any number.

if that's the best you've got, you are in serious trouble.

[Upchurch]

Likewise:

Originally posted by Iacchus
So, when you multiply 3 x 41 you get 123; and, when you multilply 7 x 81 you get 567. Now that doesn't seem like a big deal but, when you multiply 37 x 12 you get -- 444. So there you have it, the two basic colors of the meditation -- yellow (3) and violet (7) -- and, the color white (444), thus signifying the full spectrum or, "white light."Okay, you explained the significance of 37 (which, as Andonyx pointed out, was arbitrarily assigned), but does 12 have to do with it? or 41? or 123?

Actually, none of this has any significance because it is totally contrived.
Just a coincidence you think? Is the numerology example that Russ and I put together above just a coincidence? Does it show a conclusive link between Russ's phone number and the color white?

Your system is arbitrary and you're shows no mathematical significance at all. It's just a haphazard juggling of numbers.

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Iacchus


According to the Menorah on the Front Cover (http://www.dionysus.org), I've plotted the six "basic" colors (the three primary and three secondary) and the color white according to the following numbers ... Red (1), orange (2), yellow (3), white (4), green (5), blue (6) and violet (7).

Now I normally wouldn't have brought it up (by the way I didn't plan it this way either ;)) except, that the number 444 is central to the whole theme of the meditation and the avatar.

So, when you multiply 3 x 41 you get 123; and, when you multilply 7 x 81 you get 567. Now that doesn't seem like a big deal but, when you multiply 37 x 12 you get -- 444. So there you have it, the two basic colors of the meditation -- yellow (3) and violet (7) -- and, the color white (444), thus signifying the full spectrum or, "white light."

Just a coincidence you think?

Yes.

Your assigning of numbers is totally arbitrary.

Why not assign it as ROY G BV W, at and using 1-7, It would be slightly more logical.

Why did you use the additive mixing scale?

You could have used the subtractive mixing scale and then you would have had to choose different colors.

Everything about this in entirely aribitrary.

Including the fact that you apprently don't even know what the primary colors are since they are in fact:

Red Green Blue

Secondary
Mgenta Yellow and Cyan

But since you're just making up crap as you go along anyway, hey why not make up a new color system for yourself while you're at it.

This "thing" you do with numbers is called, "making sh*t up."

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Andonyx
This "thing" you do with numbers is called, "making sh*t up." Pretty much.

[Andonyx]

Now would you also care to explain as I asked in the other thread you abandoned why your menorah is a special magic Menorah that only has 7 candles?

Menorah's have 8 or 9 candles depending on their configuration. 8 for each day of the festival, and usually a 9nth "helper candle" which is used to light all the others.

So not only is the numbering arbitrary but the total number of candles is arbitrary as well.

[Andonyx]

Okay I think this is my last post that needs to be moved over:

In fairness I will interject a clarification:

The numbering systems is NOT arbitrary because of the order of the numbers. In hebrew we work from right to left and the candles are also placed in the menorah in order from right to left.

That of course doesn't excuse why there are only 7, but then nothing here makes sense anyway.

However what IS aribitrary are the colors of the candles themselves. There is nothing anywhere in our traditions of Hannukah that says what colors go in which slot. So that happy little GIF image of a psuedo menorah Lachus linked to is completely arbitrary, and there is no significance to which colors get assigned which number.

If I knew what was good for me this should just be my last post in this topic, I've been on this hampster wheel before...

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Andonyx
{stuff}
Hey! That was your 2800th post!

8/2 = 4
2800/400 = 7
2+8+0+0 = 10 >> 1+0 = 1

...okay, I'm lost after that. I see the 4 (white) and 7 (total number of colors), but what's up with the 1?

[Andonyx]

Oh well, so much for new year's resolutions.

Did anyone see the Simpson's where homer becomes convinced for some reason that Lincoln buried gold under the whitehouse?

So he walks four score and seven steps to a spot and starts digging up the floor....

And Marge points out that there was no way that could work because he didn't have any special place to start walking, he just started walking from wherever he was standing when he got the idea.

Sound familiar?

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Upchurch



...okay, I'm lost after that. I see the 4 (white) and 7 (total number of colors), but what's up with the 1?

I don't know... that's spooky...

It's almost as if that 2800, even though it is a nice big round number that took forever to get to, had NO SPECIAL SIGNIFICANCE WHATSOEVER!!!!

Spooky.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Upchurch

Hey! That was your 2800th post!

8/2 = 4
2800/400 = 7
2+8+0+0 = 10 >> 1+0 = 1

...okay, I'm lost after that. I see the 4 (white) and 7 (total number of colors), but what's up with the 1?

Look, this is my 2533 post

2+5+3+3=13
1+3=4

also my real name has 11 letters

4*11=44

The type of computer I program for is the AS/400

400+44=444

Wow, cosmic significance to this I am sure. Just a coincidence, I think not
;)

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Andonyx
In fairness I will interject a clarification:

The numbering systems is NOT arbitrary because of the order of the numbers. In hebrew we work from right to left and the candles are also placed in the menorah in order from right to left.Correct.


That of course doesn't excuse why there are only 7, but then nothing here makes sense anyway.Before Hannukah was instituted the original Menorah had seven.


However what IS aribitrary are the colors of the candles themselves. Why? The color spectrum exists between infra-"red" and ultra-"violet" -- i.e., begins with red and ends with violet -- while the spectrum itself is called white light which, for all intents purposes should be placed in "the center."


There is nothing anywhere in our traditions of Hannukah that says what colors go in which slot. So that happy little GIF image of a psuedo menorah Lachus linked to is completely arbitrary, and there is no significance to which colors get assigned which number. No, but it does illustrate a relationship between colors and numbers.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Iacchus
No, but it does illustrate a relationship between colors and numbers.Oh, riiiight. And the colors in the Star of David like that shows the circular nature of those colors, right? Like how after violet, when you increse the frequency it goes back to red?

Oh, wait. That's not right because the relationship between the colors isn't cyclical at all!

Well, I'm still anxious to here how 41, 12, and 81 have any significance in the the whole process...

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus

Before Hannukah was instituted the original Menorah had seven.


But if the 8 candled menorah served your purposes, you'd use that, if the 9 candle one did, you'd use that.


Why? The color spectrum exists between infra-"red" and ultra-"violet" -- i.e., begins with red and ends with violet -- while the spectrum itself is called white light which, for all intents purposes should be placed in "the center."


regarding the spectrum, your numbers are in reverse, red is the highest wavelength, while violet is the lowest. Also, the only reason to put white in the middle, is to make your system work. If it worked with the menorah as:

654 7 321

You'd do that instead.

Your 444th post came and went, and nothing special happen. Will you count that as evidence against your numerology, or ignore it. If something interesting did happen, would you take it as proof of your numerology?

[Nyarlathotep]

oops, I saw that I have 2353 posts not 2533.

But I can stil prove that I am the anti-christ.

Nyarlathotep has 12 letters

2353*12=28236

2+8+2+3+6=21
2+1=3

3*12=36

which is a three followed by a six signifying 3 sixes

voila, 666

this is even easier than cold reading...

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Correct.


Before Hannukah was instituted the original Menorah had seven.


According to whom? I believe this to be incorrect.

Even if it's not, why is this significant at all. You pick a seven place candle holder I pick and eight place candle holder. The one I pick even already has some mystical significance, why is the one you pick more valid than mine.

In the Vienna opera house they have 6, 12 and 18 place candle holders.

Why are those any less important than the seven place one?

You basically just said this has nothing to do with Hannukah, so why use the candle holder at all. You're just making this crap up.



Why? The color spectrum exists between infra-"red" and ultra-"violet" -- i.e., begins with red and ends with violet -- while the spectrum itself is called white light which, for all intents purposes should be placed in "the center."

Why do you put white in the center, that makes no mathematical or physical snese, On the one hand you are assigning colors by what you cal wavelength, even though you are skipping Indigo for no reason at all, then you place white in the middle even though that doesn't make sense from a wavelength proposition.


No, but it does illustrate a relationship between colors and numbers.

No it doesn't!

It only does if you play by the same made up rules you're playing by, and your rules make no sense.

There is everything arbitrary about this. You begin by saying primary colors, which has nothing to do with wavelength, then you say it's about wavelength which doesn't explain your placement of the white candle or its inclusion at all.

Then you include a menorah even though you demonstrate no reason why a menorah or the hebrew tradition should be brought into this at all.

You leave out colors at will such as orange and yellow, you actually get wrong what you call the primary colors....

In short you are wrong about most of this stuff and the rest you're making up in your head.

[RussDill]

Iacchus. Counting seems to me to be a pretty basic premise. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. Do you really believe that some sort of universal knowledge could be encoded into counting that would tell us these things?

[Upchurch]

*tweeeeeet*

Time out!

Post in one thread or the other, not both. The cross posting is just adding to the clutter these two threads have already contributed.

Thank you.

Game on.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Likewise:

Okay, you explained the significance of 37 (which, as Andonyx pointed out, was arbitrarily assigned), but does 12 have to do with it? or 41? or 123? No, I don't claim to have all the variables. However the number 37 corresponds to the colors yellow (3) and violet (7) as I said.

Now isn't it the least bit odd that these are the primary colors of the meditation?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Upchurch
*tweeeeeet*

Time out!

Post in one thread or the other, not both. The cross posting is just adding to the clutter these two threads have already contributed.

Thank you.

Game on. No problem. Looks like most everyone has reposted over here anyway. ;)

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Iacchus
No, I don't claim to have all the variables. However the number 37 corresponds to the colors yellow (3) and violet (7) as I said.

Now isn't it the least bit odd that these are the two colors of the meditation?

Yeah. And i have 2354 posts 2+3+5=4=16 1+6=7

What else comes in seven? Dwarves, that's what. I assign values to the seven dwarves as follows 1=Grumpy 2=Sneezy 3=Sleepy 4=Bashful 5=Happy 6=Dopey 7=Doc.

The 12 letters of Nyarlathotep correspond to a 3. Which Dwarf is #3? Sleepy, and I am feeling sleepy RIGHT NOW!

WOW!:jaw:

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Now isn't it the least bit odd that these are the primary colors of te meditation? Not nearly as odd as this:

1 = I
2 = took
3 = up
4 = a
5 = collection
6 = for
7 = church

now, considering that "a" is the first and most primary letter of the alphabet, and that we use your same methodology:

37 = "up" + "church"

37 = Upchurch!

Isn't that odd that a message of giving and generosity comes back with my name?

wow.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Not nearly as odd as this:

1 = I
2 = took
3 = up
4 = a
5 = collection
6 = for
7 = church

now, considering that "a" is the first and most primary letter of the alphabet, and that we use your same methodology:

37 = "up" + "church"

37 = Upchurch!

Isn't that odd that a message of giving and generosity comes back with my name?

wow.

What's more, if you apply that 37 to my Dwarf scale as a three and a seven you get Sleepy and Doc, which means that you have narcolepsy and should see a physician right away.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
No, I don't claim to have all the variables. However the number 37 corresponds to the colors yellow (3) and violet (7) as I said.

Now isn't it the least bit odd that these are the primary colors of the meditation?

They are the primary colors of *your* meditation.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep

What's more, if you apply that 37 to my Dwarf scale as a three and a seven you get Sleepy and Doc, which means that you have narcolepsy and should see a physician right away. Or it could be forcasting the future. The closer number meaning that I will become sleepy (which I'm sure I will in another 6 hours or so) and that later in the future (because it is is later in the number), I will become a doctor, which is amazing because I start classes on Monday! :eek:

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Oh, riiiight. And the colors in the Star of David like that shows the circular nature of those colors, right? Like how after violet, when you increse the frequency it goes back to red?

Oh, wait. That's not right because the relationship between the colors isn't cyclical at all!Ever see a color wheel? It looks just like a rainbow, except it's formed into a circle. I learned about this in art class in high shool, as well as the three primary and secondary colors which were plotted in accordance to it. So this basically where I got the idea.


Well, I'm still anxious to here how 41, 12, and 81 have any significance in the the whole process... I didn't work the whole thing out overnight, so that isn't to say there's no significance to it. I suspect there is.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Or it could be forcasting the future. The closer number meaning that I will become sleepy (which I'm sure I will in another 6 hours or so) and that later in the future (because it is is later in the number), I will become a doctor, which is amazing because I start classes on Monday! :eek:

Hey, yeah. I see you also registered in May 2002 which would be 5/02. On the Dwarf scale that is Happy and Sneezy. 5+2=7 which is Doc again. THis means you will be happy, and your medical specialty will involve the nose. Pretty scary stuff.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Andonyx

Why did you use the additive mixing scale?Please see my last reply.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Ever see a color wheel? It looks just like a rainbow, except it's formed into a circle. I learned about this in art class in high shool, as well as the three primary and secondary colors which were plotted in accordance to it. So this basically where the idea came from.Wait a minute. I thought it was based on the light spectrum? If you mix all the colors in a art color wheel together, you get brown or, ideally, black. White is when you mix colored light together.

Which is it?
I didn't work the whole thing out overnight, so that isn't to say there's no significance to it. I suspect there is. And how are you going to go about finding out if there is significance to it? Keep trying until you find something that makes sense? Using such a technique, you can eventually find significance in anything. Look at the examples we've given above.

You are forcing there to be significance where there is none. It's dishonest.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
THis means you will be happy, and your medical specialty will involve the nose. I wasn't planning on working towards being a medical doctor, but if it's in the dwarves, who am I to argue?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Iacchus

I didn't work the whole thing out overnight, so that isn't to say there's no significance to it. I suspect there is.

The amount of effort you put into it means nothing. If you chase your own tail day and night for years you still wil have accomplished nothing.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Upchurch
I wasn't planning on working towards being a medical doctor, but if it's in the dwarves, who am I to argue?

The Dwarves know all, the Dwarves see all, trust the Dwarves.

After all, Seven Dwarves/Seven Days in the week. Coincidence? I think not. I didn't just work this out overnight you know.

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Ever see a color wheel? It looks just like a rainbow, except it's formed into a circle. I learned about this in art class in high shool, as well as the three primary and secondary colors which were plotted in accordance to it. So this basically where I got the idea.




Then you got the wrong idea.

Infra-red and ultra-violet don't "meet" somewhere.

And if you took that class how is it that you named the primary colors wrong?

In the meantime I've decided that I will go ahead and use your 7 slot menorah as well.

However, I will number the colors correctly:

7 6 5 4 3 2 1
R O Y G B I V

My Favorite color happens to be green...which is in the middle, and we all know it makes sense to put our favorite color in the middle.

If I take the number associated with it, 4 and count four to the right, I get 1.

1 is the first letter of the alphabet, and that gives us A

And if i now use that number to get to the right again, I get 3 which is 'C'.

Since this is my third letter I'm looking for, I ultiply that 3, three times, and get 9.

Take the 1 from step 1 and the 9 from this step and I get 19, which is 'S'.

ACS.

My initials!

Holy crap....The ancient Hebrews knew I was coming thousands of years before I did, and that secret is encoded in the ritual of lighting the menorah!

[Iacchus]

http://www.dionysus.org/7_colors.gif

You can figure out how this fits into the musical scale too if you like ... i.e., where the "greater circle" of each subset (of seven) represents "one octave" (meaning eight).

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Please see my last reply.

Hey that'd be awesome, except you didn't actually use the additive mixing scale, you actually used some made up scale that calls Violet a primary color.

And even if you used an actual scale that the rest of humanity recognizes, that doesn't explain why it should be picked over any other. You used it because you happen to get that idea in class...

Remember my example about Homer Simpson?

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Iacchus
You can figure out how this fits into the musical scale too if you like ... i.e., where the "greater circle" of each subset (of seven) represents "one octave" (meaning eight). Okay, so it's arbitrary. So, what has that proved?

A: that if you look hard enough you can find significance in anything, whether it was actually there or not.

What does any of this have to do with spirituality?

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Iacchus
http://www.dionysus.org/7_colors.gif

You can figure out how this fits into the musical scale too if you like ... i.e., where the "greater circle" of each subset (of seven) represents "one octave" (meaning eight).

So I guess the Japanese with their quarter-tone scale just aren't mystical enough to fit into your all seeing all knowing color wheel.

No really, please explain to me how this wheel relates to the musical wheel.

Hmmm eight.....

Eight eight eight.....

Where have I heard eight before.....

OH YEAH In the original menorah that I told you about, you knwo the real menorah's that have eight slots instead of seven!

You shoulda listened to me, man look what you missed out on.

In the meantime, did you want to actually tell us about that seven slot menorah or was that just a blatent fabrication?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill
Iacchus. Counting seems to me to be a pretty basic premise. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. Do you really believe that some sort of universal knowledge could be encoded into counting that would tell us these things? Do you mean like the seven days of creation, where God rested on the seventh, and possibly in "the middle?" If you took six pennies and put them in a circle, so that each penny touched another penny, you would have just enough room to place a seventh penny in the center. Hence the obvious relationship between the numbers six and seven. Whereas if you circumscribe a circle around the pennies as a whole, you come up with an "eighth circle," and hence the "eighth aspect." Thus illustrating the relationship between the numbers 6, 7 and 8.

Doesn't this suggest a possible aspect of universality to you?

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Do you mean like the seven days of creation, where God rested on the seventh, and possibly in "the middle?" If you took six pennies and put them in a circle, so that each penny touched another penny, you would have just enough room to place a seventh penny in the center. Hence the obvious relationship between the numbers six and seven. Whereas if you circumscribe a circle around the pennies as a whole, you come up with an "eighth circle," and hence the "eighth aspect." Thus illustrating the relationship between the numbers 6, 7 and 8.

Doesn't this suggest a possible aspect of universality to you?

no, because I can add a 9th circle, and a 10th, and on and on, until i get the numbers I want.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Do you mean like the seven days of creation, where God rested on the seventh, and possibly in "the middle?" If you took six pennies and put them in a circle, so that each penny touched another penny, you would have just enough room to place a seventh penny in the center. Hence the obvious relationship between the numbers six and seven. Whereas if you circumscribe a circle around the pennies as a whole, you come up with an "eighth circle," and hence the "eighth aspect." Thus illustrating the relationship between the numbers 6, 7 and 8.

Doesn't this suggest a possible aspect of universality to you?

Nope. It suggests a possible aspect of basic geometry to me. It also suggests the human proclivity to find patterns in things.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

no, because I can add a 9th circle, and a 10th, and on and on, until i get the numbers I want. How so?

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
How so?

Well, there's one through the centers or the 6 circles. Also, I can draw 6 more circles in the area between the outer circle, and the 6 circles. Similarly, I can draw circles in the areas between the 6 circles and the inner circles. I can also put 7 of these things together, and get 7 times as many circles, and then draw a circle around the whole thing. I can also add triangles and squares all over the place.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Andonyx

According to whom? I believe this to be incorrect.It's in the front of my Bible for one thing. While I've heard of it elsewhere as well.


Even if it's not, why is this significant at all. You pick a seven place candle holder I pick and eight place candle holder. The one I pick even already has some mystical significance, why is the one you pick more valid than mine.Because there are three primary colors (red, yellow, blue) and three secondary colors (orange, green, violet), and only one other significant color "white" which, is comprised of these six.


You basically just said this has nothing to do with Hannukah, so why use the candle holder at all. You're just making this crap up.Because there are references to it in both the New Testament and the Old.

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. (Revelation 4:1-5 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=English&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+4:1-5)).Tell me, does any of this look familiar?


Why do you put white in the center, that makes no mathematical or physical snese, On the one hand you are assigning colors by what you cal wavelength, even though you are skipping Indigo for no reason at all, then you place white in the middle even though that doesn't make sense from a wavelength proposition.Where else could white go, but in the beginning, the middle and the end (i.e., the whole spectrum), hence number "444." Hey, there it is again!

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

Well, there's one through the centers or the 6 circles. Also, I can draw 6 more circles in the area between the outer circle, and the 6 circles. Similarly, I can draw circles in the areas between the 6 circles and the inner circles. I can also put 7 of these things together, and get 7 times as many circles, and then draw a circle around the whole thing. I can also add triangles and squares all over the place. I noticed you're still using the numbers 6 and 7 here. Any reason why?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Wait a minute. I thought it was based on the light spectrum? If you mix all the colors in a art color wheel together, you get brown or, ideally, black. White is when you mix colored light together.

Which is it? Yeah, so long as it doesn't incorporate the colors brown, gray or black it still works. ;)


And how are you going to go about finding out if there is significance to it? Keep trying until you find something that makes sense? Using such a technique, you can eventually find significance in anything. Look at the examples we've given above.Believe me I have. :p


You are forcing there to be significance where there is none. It's dishonest. Really? ...

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Not nearly as odd as this:

1 = I
2 = took
3 = up
4 = a
5 = collection
6 = for
7 = church

now, considering that "a" is the first and most primary letter of the alphabet, and that we use your same methodology:

37 = "up" + "church"

37 = Upchurch!

Isn't that odd that a message of giving and generosity comes back with my name?

wow. Oh you very funny guy! :p

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Andonyx

Then you got the wrong idea.

Infra-red and ultra-violet don't "meet" somewhere.Doesn't visible light exist between infra-red and ultra-violet?


And if you took that class how is it that you named the primary colors wrong?Violet (or purple) is not a primary color by the way, it's a "secondary color," meaning it can be mixed using red and blue.


In the meantime I've decided that I will go ahead and use your 7 slot menorah as well.That's the only way it works.


However, I will number the colors correctly:

7 6 5 4 3 2 1
R O Y G B I VThis is incorrect because the sun rises from the East -- where we find ourselves looking due North and East is on our right -- and the Hebrew language reads from right to left.


My Favorite color happens to be green...which is in the middle, and we all know it makes sense to put our favorite color in the middle.Sure, whatever you say ... :p

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Andonyx

Hey that'd be awesome, except you didn't actually use the additive mixing scale, you actually used some made up scale that calls Violet a primary color.Like I said violet (or purple) is a secondary color.

Red (p) + Yellow (p) = Orange (s)

Yellow (p) + Blue (p) = Green (s)

Blue (p) + Red (p) = Violet (s)

So there you have it, the three primary colors: red, yellow and blue; and the three secondary colors: orange, green and violet.


And even if you used an actual scale that the rest of humanity recognizes, that doesn't explain why it should be picked over any other. You used it because you happen to get that idea in class...Actually I don't see how you can possibly argue against it?


Remember my example about Homer Simpson? All I remember is that you were rattling on about something? ...

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Doesn't visible light exist between infra-red and ultra-violet?

Yes it does, but Infrared and Ultraviolet still do not meet anywhere. That is to say you can't increase the wavelength until it once again becomes infrared nor devrease the wavelength of infrared until it becomes ultraviolet.



This is incorrect because the sun rises from the East -- where we find ourselves looking due North and East is on our right -- and the Hebrew language reads from right to left.


Yep and the sun sets in the west and the Chinese Languae reads top to bottom. Furthermore This has no more relevancy to why you picked your numbers than what you posted, the difference is, I don't claim it does.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Andonyx
Originally posted by Iacchus
http://www.dionysus.org/7_colors.gif

You can figure out how this fits into the musical scale too if you like ... i.e., where the "greater circle" of each subset (of seven) represents "one octave" (meaning eight).
So I guess the Japanese with their quarter-tone scale just aren't mystical enough to fit into your all seeing all knowing color wheel.They can play their music anyway they like. Doesn't bother me none.


No really, please explain to me how this wheel relates to the musical wheel.In the sense that the eighth note is always the same first note. Did you notice the small red circle was placed next to the larger red circle, in which case both are seen as the same note, thus illustrating their harmonic relationship?


Hmmm eight.....

Eight eight eight.....

Where have I heard eight before.....

OH YEAH In the original menorah that I told you about, you knwo the real menorah's that have eight slots instead of seven!Except in my representation the eighth note represents the body of the seven.


You shoulda listened to me, man look what you missed out on.

In the meantime, did you want to actually tell us about that seven slot menorah or was that just a blatent fabrication? Have already explained this. Would suggest doing your own research if you're not sure.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep

Nope. It suggests a possible aspect of basic geometry to me. It also suggests the human proclivity to find patterns in things. Yes, the ability to recognize patterns. It's a good place a start. ;)

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep

Yes it does, but Infrared and Ultraviolet still do not meet anywhere. That is to say you can't increase the wavelength until it once again becomes infrared nor devrease the wavelength of infrared until it becomes ultraviolet.This is where the pigmented colors come in, because you can still mix red and blue to get violet.

Or what about a beam of light in general? It is "circular" isn't it?


Yep and the sun sets in the west and the Chinese Languae reads top to bottom. Furthermore This has no more relevancy to why you picked your numbers than what you posted, the difference is, I don't claim it does. Wishful thinking on your part. ;)

[Kilted_Canuck]

Lets see if this gets through to you:

THE THREE PRIMARY COLOURS OF LIGHT:

Red
Blue
Green

Each are primary colours because they are found at the Highest Wavelength, Lowest wavelength (actually violet is lowest, but blue is considered the primary colour, as R+B+G= White), and Midpoint between the two.

Now, what you should have learned in art class:

THE THREE PRIMARY COLOURS OF PIGMENT:
Yellow
Magenta
Cyan

Each are primary colours because if mixed together, they can produce nearly any other colour; just look closely at a colour magazine ad or your printer ink cartrages.

PS. Your numerology is bull, and has been disproven many, many, many times in this thread and your previous thread...just give it up.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
It's in the front of my Bible for one thing. While I've heard of it elsewhere as well.


The word menorah never apears in the bible. What they had was nothing like a menorah, it was a set of oil lamps. However, modern menorahs either signify creation (7 candles) or chanukkah (9 candles)


Because there are three primary colors (red, yellow, blue) and three secondary colors (orange, green, violet), and only one other significant color "white" which, is comprised of these six.


Red, yellow and blue are primary colors on the color wheel. When the colors on the color wheel are mixed, they produce the secondary colors of orange, green, and violet. However, when you mix them all, you get black.


Because there are references to it in both the New Testament and the Old.

Tell me, does any of this look familiar?


So...you think that just because they mention the number 7, that its somehow special? They also mention 24 and 28, which you never mention.


Where else could white go, but in the beginning, the middle and the end (i.e., the whole spectrum), hence number "444." Hey, there it is again!

the way you combined 4, 4, and 4 is arabic. There are no arabic numerals in the bible because they had not yet been invented. So why would you think they would hold any special meaning? Also, under any other number base, it would be a different value. Base 10 is special in no way, the babylonians used base 60 (which, afaik, is the source of 60 seconds in a minute, 24 hr in a day, 12 inches in a foot, etc) Really, base 12 would be superior to base 10 anyway.

Also, if you like numerology, check this out, every once in a while, look at the clock, more times than not, your brain will make you look when there are 2 1's, like 1:10, or 12:11, or 1:51. The two ones are the doors of eternity you see. Try it, by your accepting positive evidence, rejecting negative evidence, you'll have no problem proving the truth of that to yourself.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Yeah, so long as it doesn't incorporate the colors brown, gray or black it still works. ;)


So...you arbitually chose the color white because it works. Have you ever wondered about what other variables you chose simply because they work?


Believe me I have. :p


And it's a prime example of what has happened here.


Really? ...

really

[Eos of the Eons]

Numbers, lol

1991 Catholic Population Stats in thousands
Canada Total population that are catholics12,335. (12 million)

Alberta 666.8
British Columbia 603.1
Yukon 5.6
Northwest Territories 21.9



666, 800 people were catholics in Alberta in 1991 :D What an ungodly number!

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo30_96c.htm

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Doesn't visible light exist between infra-red and ultra-violet?


Yes, but they still don't meet anywhere. Beyond them in one direction is heat, and in the other direction, radiation. Both could be considered forms of light, as other animals can see a larger visible spectrum than us, but you don't include those colors either. We often use "color" even beyond that to view things like black holes, and other galaxies.


Violet (or purple) is not a primary color by the way, it's a "secondary color," meaning it can be mixed using red and blue.


right, but the color wheel is an inverted view of visible light. The "light wheel" is completely different, and can actually make white.


That's the only way it works.


Ya, you have to try really hard to rearange the numbers and colors and stuff until it "works".


This is incorrect because the sun rises from the East -- where we find ourselves looking due North and East is on our right -- and the Hebrew language reads from right to left.


There is nothing special about "north" it is not up in anyway, it makes just as much sense to look south.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus

They can play their music anyway they like. Doesn't bother me none.
[/QUOTE]

What he is saying is that the number of notes in an octive is completely arbituary and meaningless.


In the sense that the eighth note is always the same first note. Did you notice the small red circle was placed next to the larger red circle, in which case both are seen as the same note, thus illustrating their harmonic relationship?


So its an off by one numerology smudge. The numbers don't match, so you smudge it. Sounds like cheating to me.


Except in my representation the eighth note represents the body of the seven.


ya, in my field, that is a very serious, and far too common kind of error (off my one error)

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
I noticed you're still using the numbers 6 and 7 here. Any reason why?

Because I was basing it off your original design. I don't have to use the numbers of 6 and 7, what numbers do you want me to come up with by using perfect geometrical designs? I can give you any number or combination of numbers you want.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus

Or what about a beam of light in general? It is "circular" isn't it?


umm..right, the beam of light that comes in through my window certainly isn't circular. The only light beams that are circular are ones that pass through circular holes (and even those are usually oval


Wishful thinking on your part. ;)

He's pointing out that your north-east thing is only wishful thinking on your part.

[Yahweh]

I'll sum up my opinions regarding this thread:

:big:

[Fishboot]

Iacchus is clearly a joke imitation of the modern flake. Stop replying to it, or at least stop replying to it without the above knowledge in your mind. By way of evidence I posit that no human can be this non-ironically inane and still remember to breathe.

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Fishboot
Iacchus is clearly a joke imitation of the modern flake. Stop replying to it, or at least stop replying to it without the above knowledge in your mind. By way of evidence I posit that no human can be this non-ironically inane and still remember to breathe.

Possibly, but I'm entertaining the notion that Lacchus is the most successful attempt at the Turing test ever devised.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Kilted_Canuck
Lets see if this gets through to you:

THE THREE PRIMARY COLOURS OF LIGHT:

Red
Blue
Green

Each are primary colours because they are found at the Highest Wavelength, Lowest wavelength (actually violet is lowest, but blue is considered the primary colour, as R+B+G= White), and Midpoint between the two.

Now, what you should have learned in art class:

THE THREE PRIMARY COLOURS OF PIGMENT:
Yellow
Magenta
Cyan

Each are primary colours because if mixed together, they can produce nearly any other colour; just look closely at a colour magazine ad or your printer ink cartrages.So why doesn't this agree with RussDill's post below? Hey, if I hadn't gone through six years of art during school, maybe I would have come up with some other notion?


PS. Your numerology is bull, and has been disproven many, many, many times in this thread and your previous thread...just give it up. In what way? ;)

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

The word menorah never apears in the bible. So what? I have a picture of a golden 7 branched candlestick "holder" in the front of my Bible which looks very ancient. I don't know about you, but it was real easy for me to make the connection with the Menorah. Perhaps this is what "impressed" me the most?


What they had was nothing like a menorah, it was a set of oil lamps. However, modern menorahs either signify creation (7 candles) or chanukkah (9 candles).Oh, 7 candles signify creation? Well what do you know? Isn't this pretty much what I've already mentioned?


Red, yellow and blue are primary colors on the color wheel. When the colors on the color wheel are mixed, they produce the secondary colors of orange, green, and violet. However, when you mix them all, you get black.But when you mix them with light you get white, right? Why is that so hard to understand?


So...you think that just because they mention the number 7, that its somehow special? They also mention 24 and 28, which you never mention.Oh, this is just of the tip of the iceberg by the way.


the way you combined 4, 4, and 4 is arabic. There are no arabic numerals in the bible because they had not yet been invented. So why would you think they would hold any special meaning? Also, under any other number base, it would be a different value. Base 10 is special in no way, the babylonians used base 60 (which, afaik, is the source of 60 seconds in a minute, 24 hr in a day, 12 inches in a foot, etc) Really, base 12 would be superior to base 10 anyway.And yet the key that I think everybody is missing out on here is what "standard" was available at the time, because this is basically my approach.


Also, if you like numerology, check this out, every once in a while, look at the clock, more times than not, your brain will make you look when there are 2 1's, like 1:10, or 12:11, or 1:51. The two ones are the doors of eternity you see. Try it, by your accepting positive evidence, rejecting negative evidence, you'll have no problem proving the truth of that to yourself. So, we can use numbers to confirm things with one side of the brain (rational side), but not with the other? (intuitive side).

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

So...you arbitually chose the color white because it works. Have you ever wondered about what other variables you chose simply because they work?You ever try to reason any thing out with your own mind? :p

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

Yes, but they still don't meet anywhere. Beyond them in one direction is heat, and in the other direction, radiation. Both could be considered forms of light, as other animals can see a larger visible spectrum than us, but you don't include those colors either. We often use "color" even beyond that to view things like black holes, and other galaxies.If you shine a beam of light on something typically it's circular, right? It shows up as a circular pattern. Doesn't that suggest a circular color wheel -- which is symetrical -- could just as easily represent that?


right, but the color wheel is an inverted view of visible light. The "light wheel" is completely different, and can actually make white.Right. ;)


Ya, you have to try really hard to rearange the numbers and colors and stuff until it "works".Actually it all just kind of fell into my lap. Which isn't to say I haven't had to verify anything but, essentially this is how it happened.


There is nothing special about "north" it is not up in anyway, it makes just as much sense to look south. It's a standard point of reference, for example when you look at a compass.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

So its an off by one numerology smudge. The numbers don't match, so you smudge it. Sounds like cheating to me.What are you talking about? Do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, do. And here the eighth note is the same (harmonically) as the first. So in that respect the eighth note becomes the "body" of the seven.


ya, in my field, that is a very serious, and far too common kind of error (off my one error) If you draw a circle around the original seven you get eight. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Darwin'sGoat]

#1 You're taking the colors on a color wheel and adding them together to get white? The color wheel is an artist's tool. Artists don't add the primary colors together to get white, they add them together to get brown. To get white by mixing the primary colors you need to be dealing with light. As was already pointed out, the primary colors of white light are red, green, and blue.

#2 In the "Are Axioms Beliefs?" thread you argue over the validity of 1+1=2. You're a numerologist?!

[Iacchus]

By the way, have started a new thread called, You Want More Proof (2)? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33560)

http://www.dionysus.org/art0803.gif

Shows integration of "three centers" shown above ...

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Iacchus
You Want More Proof (2)? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33560) Your link is wrong.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by Iacchus
What are you talking about? Do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, do. And here the eighth note is the same (harmonically) as the first. So in that respect the eighth note becomes the "body" of the seven.
In addition to your flawed understanding of light, you have no conception of the history of music, in particular the development of the scale. Or have you? Let me just ask, does your musical example rely on the modern tempered scale? Or the harmonic scale? Or what?

Oh, and when you shine a light on something and the light is circular...it's because your flashlight lens is circular. Try making a pinhole lens and looking at the light emitted by a fluorescent tube, for instance. You will see a nice, non-circular pattern...

(I can't believe I actually had to say that about the light....)

[Dancing David]

Oh, well, there are plenty of mandalas and plenty of ways to interpret them, they are a product of the human mind.

BTW, why not use the Tree of Life which the hebrai stole from the egyptians.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Iacchus
This is where the pigmented colors come in, because you can still mix red and blue to get violet.

You are stretching so far that youa re in danger of snapping

Or what about a beam of light in general? It is "circular" isn't it?

Only if it is shined through a circular hole




Wishful thinking on your part. ;)

I don't think so. You are doing enough wishful thinking for the both of us and 10 more people besides.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
So what? I have a picture of a golden 7 branched candlestick "holder" in the front of my Bible which looks very ancient. I don't know about you, but it was real easy for me to make the connection with the Menorah. Perhaps this is what "impressed" me the most?


Your gulibility is incredible. The above statement reminds me of a catholic telling someone they know what jesus looks like because they have a painting at their church.


Oh, 7 candles signify creation? Well what do you know? Isn't this pretty much what I've already mentioned?


7 candles also signify a bajillion other things to different people.


But when you mix them with light you get white, right? Why is that so hard to understand?


No, Shall I send you paint in those three colors? You can mix them all day if you want, you'll NEVER get white, you'll only get an icky brown.


Oh, this is just of the tip of the iceberg by the way.


Ya, I know, the amount of meaningless crap you can pull out of numbers is astounding and neverending.


And yet the key that I think everybody is missing out on here is what "standard" was available at the time, because this is basically my approach.


Ok, then your aproach is completely bunk. Your system is based off of arabic numeral place value system which did not reach the west until around 662AD. It was not available at the time.


So, we can use numbers to confirm things with one side of the brain (rational side), but not with the other? (intuitive side).

Its like trying to prove things by looking for the answers in the shapes of clouds. Its a) completely random b) has nothing to do with the problem at hand and c) you'll see what you want to see.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
You ever try to reason any thing out with your own mind? :p

Why yes I do. However, you are not using reasoning, you are using pattern searching, and you are searching for patterns in a meaningless area.

I ask again, do you think that a code was locked away in the counting numbers (1, 2, 3, 4...)?

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
If you shine a beam of light on something typically it's circular, right? It shows up as a circular pattern. Doesn't that suggest a circular color wheel -- which is symetrical -- could just as easily represent that?


Smak! (hand against forehead). Are you really that incapable of thinking critically? Your beam of light is coming from a flashlight, the flashlight is ROUND.


Right. ;)


So why not use the "light wheel" instead of the color wheel?


Actually it all just kind of fell into my lap. Which isn't to say I haven't had to verify anything but, essentially this is how it happened.


In what way have you verified anything?


It's a standard point of reference, for example when you look at a compass.

Umm...and I take it then the hebrew's had compasses? Again, think CRITICALLY here, north is no more special than south. The popular way to make maps has become north at the top. However, it doesn't make north any more special, I'm sure other map makers made east on the top, because thats where the sun rises, or south at the top, because its just as special as north, or west, because it made sense for the map.