You Want More Proof (2)?

[Iacchus]

This is a continuation of the thread, You Want More Proof? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33560)


http://www.dionysus.org/art0801.gif

Here's a picture of the badge I was given at work.

http://www.dionysus.org/art0802.gif

Here's a picture of the vision I had a couple of months later.

http://www.dionysus.org/art0803.gif

Here's a picture of the three centers, developed 9 months later. Represents the ten commandments: 4th commandment says, "Honor the Sabbath" or, "7th day." Eight commandment represents "the body" ... "Thou shalt not steal." Ninth commandment represents "the soul" ... "Thou shalt not bear false witness."

http://www.dionysus.org/art0804.gif

The 10th commandment represents "objectivity" ... "Don't covet what belongs to your neighbor."

http://www.dionysus.org/art0805.gif

Integration of all three symbols.

http://www.dionysus.org/art0806.gif

The three centers derived from numbers 4 thru 9 (only numbers when "squared" gives you "two digit" by-product).

By the way in Greek, the letter Delta is the 4th, and the word "Ennis" means the 9th. All of which corresponds to the name "Dennis" which, happens to be my first name.

I don't have time to get into this now but you can look it up in Chapter 8 (http://www.dionysus.org/x0801.html) of my book if you like?

http://www.dionysus.org/x0801.html

[shemp]

I just want to be the first in this thread to say that you are an idiot.

[joyrex]

Maybe we should move this one to Flame Wars already.. :D

[El Greco]

I wish good luck to all who will reply in this thread. You have my support and admiration. Ed bless you.

[Skeptical Greg]

Is anyone else thinking of something like, maybe a chicken that wandered into the back door of a K.F.C.?

[hgc]

For the nutbag who'll believe absolutely anything, this thread's for you!

[Ipecac]

Dag nab it! Shemp beat me to it.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Ipecac
Dag nab it! Shemp beat me to it. Its okay. I'm sure there will be other opportunities.

[Skeptical Greg]

I think it's time we initiated the JREF

"Brass Balls"

award...


I suggest it be a monthly award, and we can vote on ' Brass Balls of The Year ' in December...


I nominate Iacchus for January 2004...

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Diogenes
Is anyone else thinking of something like, maybe a chicken that wandered into the back door of a K.F.C.?

KFC= 20+6+3= 29

chicken= 8+1+3+20+10+700=742

KFC+chicken=761

;)

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Diogenes
I think it's time we initiated the JREF

"Brass Balls"

award...


I suggest it be a monthly award, and we can vote on ' Brass Balls of The Year ' in December...


I nominate Iacchus for January 2004...

Seconded, all in favor say aye.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Dancing David


KFC= 20+6+3= 29

chicken= 8+1+3+20+10+700=742

KFC+chicken=761 Isn't it amazing that when you assign just the right combination of numbers to letter, or combination of letters, you gind hidden meaning? I mean, who can argue with 761? It's right there!

Consider from another thread where "I took up a collection for church" leads to the revelation that 37 = "Upchurch".

Obviously this is significant.

[sackett]

Somebody's pulling my leg and I want Iacchus to stop it!

[Crossbow]

I don't want a pickle!

I just wanna ride my motor-sickle!

So, no thanks, I do not want more proof.

:p

[Upchurch]

Good point. I think Iacchus has pretty much proven what he's capable of. I certainly don't need anymore.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by sackett
Somebody's pulling my leg and I want Iacchus to stop it!

Take a look at his online book..


The Advent of Dionysus - Online Book (http://www.dionysus.org/)


He has gone to a lot of trouble to just be pulling legs..


The content notwithstanding ( such as revelations revealed in the license plates of automobiles), it is fairly well presented and seems to be proofed rather well.

I see energies that might produce signifcant value if directed elswhere..

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Good point. I think Iacchus has pretty much proven what he's capable of. I certainly don't need anymore.

I think he has proven that he is either a troll or extraordinarily credulous. I don't think I need any more proof either.

[Dragonrock]

Interesting theory Iacchus, but tell me, how does it change if it's Thursday and you're wearing a hat?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Dragonrock
Interesting theory Iacchus, but tell me, how does it change if it's Thursday and you're wearing a hat?

It only works if your not wearing a hat, unless the hat is blue. duh.

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


It only works if your not wearing a hat, unless the hat is blue. duh.

What it has a blue hatband or maybe a blue feather?

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Diogenes


Take a look at his online book..


The Advent of Dionysus - Online Book (http://www.dionysus.org/)


He has gone to a lot of trouble to just be pulling legs..


The content notwithstanding ( such as revelations revealed in the license plates of automobiles), it is fairly well presented and seems to be proofed rather well.

I see energies that might produce signifcant value if directed elswhere..

Please don't look at his on-line book.

It should be painfully obvious to anyone here by now that the man is selling snake-oil. We don't need to add to his page hits and drive up his google rating.

Look, believer, troll, schizophrenic....I don't care what his mental issues might or might not be, he put the effort in to make a buck plain and simple. And that buck is to be made selling a faulty, perhaps fraudulent load of crap.

The less attention we give this mis-guided mess the better for all concerned.

[El Greco]

He's still not even half as good as the other guy who can find God's name in the orbits of electrons.

Hey, I remember something from sometime ago:

You take the number 999999
Divide it by 7 = 142857

142857 * 2 = 2857 14
142857 * 3 = 42857 1
142857 * 4 = 57 1428
142857 * 5 = 7 14285
142857 * 6 = 857 142
142857 * 7 = 999 999
142857 * 8 = 1 14285 6 (6+1 = 7)
142857 * 9 = 1 2857 1 3 (3+1 = 4)

... and so on

Dear lacchus, that should keep you busy for the next 5 years or so.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Andonyx


Please don't look at his on-line book.

It should be painfully obvious to anyone here by now that the man is selling snake-oil. We don't need to add to his page hits and drive up his google rating.

Look, believer, troll, schizophrenic....I don't care what his mental issues might or might not be, he put the effort in to make a buck plain and simple. And that buck is to be made selling a faulty, perhaps fraudulent load of crap.

The less attention we give this mis-guided mess the better for all concerned.

In all fairness, where is he making a buck?

He hasn't been published.. He doesn't ask for donations..

You do get a benign pop-up, but any site that does not produce pops is pretty rare.. ( kudos to JREF for that... )

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Diogenes


In all fairness, where is he making a buck?

He hasn't been published.. He doesn't ask for donations..

You do get a benign pop-up, but any site that does not produce pops is pretty rare.. ( kudos to JREF for that... )

I stand corrected.

When I first went to the site I was of the impression these were excerpts from a book someone was selling. I didn't realize it was Lacchus' own work until he pointed it out in this thread.

My apologies for the confusion, and I withdraw that accusation.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Andonyx


I stand corrected.

When I first went to the site I was of the impression these were excerpts from a book someone was selling. I didn't realize it was Lacchus' own work until he pointed it out in this thread.

My apologies for the confusion, and I withdraw that accusation.

Which still leaves him as either a troll or the (as the comic book guy from the Simpsons would say it) Worst...Creduloid...Ever.

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


Which still leaves him as either a troll or the (as the comic book guy from the Simpsons would say it) Worst...Creduloid...Ever.

Seriously though with the latest round of diagrams, he is approaching Timecube level zaniness.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus

http://www.dionysus.org/art0801.gif

Here's a picture of the badge I was given at work.


Why should your work tag have any special cosmic meaning? If your work tag didn't work out for the example, I'm sure you would have used your address, your phone number, part of your social. The possibilities are endless.


http://www.dionysus.org/art0802.gif

Here's a picture of the vision I had a couple of months later.


Looks like one of those laundry instruction tags to me...


http://www.dionysus.org/art0803.gif

Here's a picture of the three centers, developed 9 months later. Represents the ten commandments: 4th commandment says, "Honor the Sabbath" or, "7th day." Eight commandment represents "the body" ... "Thou shalt not steal." Ninth commandment represents "the soul" ... "Thou shalt not bear false witness."


I fail to see how any of this links up to the picture in any way, you just drew three arbituary shapes, and drew numbers in them, you even have the same number in there twice. You don't even have 10. Also, go back and read your bible, there seem to be more than 10 commandments in there.


http://www.dionysus.org/art0804.gif

The 10th commandment represents "objectivity" ... "Don't covet what belongs to your neighbor."


If that isn't cheating and smudging it, I don't know what is.


http://www.dionysus.org/art0805.gif

Integration of all three symbols.


you still have 4 twice, and 10 doesn't apear


http://www.dionysus.org/art0806.gif

The three centers derived from numbers 4 thru 9 (only numbers when "squared" gives you "two digit" by-product).


You squared them for no other reason to make this happen.

You put the 0 in the middle for no other reason than to make this happen, and its nothing special

x0y * 11 is always going to equal xxyy. Also, you chose 11 for no other reason than to make this happen.


By the way in Greek, the letter Delta is the 4th, and the word "Ennis" means the 9th. All of which corresponds to the name "Dennis" which, happens to be my first name.


Really? Why not do it with latin, or english, or hebrew, why choose greek? Because it works in greek, that is the only reason.


I don't have time to get into this now but you can look it up in Chapter 8 (http://www.dionysus.org/x0801.html) of my book if you like?


I've wasted enough of my life reading chapters of your book.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Iacchus
By the way in Greek, the letter Delta is the 4th, and the word "Ennis" means the 9th.

Which reminds me of course that in Greek "9th" is "ennatos", not "ennis".

Don't let this infinitesimal detail deter you, though. You can always change your name to "Dennatos"

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Andonyx


Seriously though with the latest round of diagrams, he is approaching Timecube level zaniness.

The only reason I seem to be defending him, is that I am impressed with the volume and creativity ( and quality ( not accuracy or credibility )) of material in his book.. I'ts more of a personal diary ( much more than I care to know ) and I find it mildly entertaining. Also, it is quite articulate..

Another angle that I would have appreciated more about thirty years ago, is that a lot of the material in the book, appears to be a treasure trove of pussy bait. ( Can I say that? ) In that regard ,I guess we can call him a troll, but he may be casting his net a little too far, or definitely in the wrong river..

I think it's too easy to attack ( from a skeptical perspective ) Iacchus as a troll or woo woo, without giving him a little credit for creativity.. ( Not that I read the whole thing, but enough to give me this opinion.. I found it quite entertaining. Definitely far above the Yalel stuff, IMHO.... )

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by El Greco


Which reminds me of course that in Greek "9th" is "ennatos", not "ennis".

Don't let this infinitesimal detail deter you, though. You can always change your name to "Dennatos"

Now you've done it, you've gone and thrown facts at him. As he has demonstrated many, many times, actual facts just confuse the poor guy. Don't you know, the time honored tradition of making things up as you go trumps mere boring facts any day of the week.

Besides he has worked hard on this stuff. He didn't just come up with it overnight you know.;)

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Diogenes


The only reason I seem to be defending him, is that I am impressed with the volume and creativity ( and quality ( not accuracy or credibility ) of material in his book.. I's more of a personal diary ( much more than I care to know ) and I find it mildly entertaining. Also it is quite articulate..



Hey look I have no problem if you find merit (humorous or otherwise) in his writings...

I was just under the impression that there was a profit motive here. Since there isn't I have absolutely no issues with it at all. (I mean other than the obvious logical and common sensical issues.)

Enjoy!

But as you said, apparently there is a lot of effort still to be wrung out of this person, or a whole heck of a lot of free time, and it is slightly saddening to see it be spent this way. It would be nice to see the manpower used to...I don't know.... teach a kid to read.

But then I use my (minimal) free-time time to play video games...so I guess I should not cast stones.

[Dancing David]

U+p+ch+u+r+ch=6+80+8+6+200+8=308!

308=4*77 Woowoowoowoo

The element of earth manifest through the power of creation and magic!

Woowooowoowoo

BTW, who is the znazzy gentleman in the avathar, looks like your wife had quite a treat!

:wink8:

[Keneke]

Originally posted by El Greco
I wish good luck to all who will reply in this thread. You have my support and admiration. Ed bless you.

And then Russ Dill refuted everything without losing his cool. Amazing.

[Suddenly]

Back around 1985 when I was but a lad, on a bet I memorized the serial number on the back of a C-64 monitor. It is still taking up valuable brain space:

1170680

From this can someone tell me if I should lay the points and take the Rams this weekend?


Thanks in advance....

[Yahweh]

1 = A
2 = B
3 = C
4 = D
5 = E
6 = F
7 = G
8 = H
9 = I
10 = J
11 = K
12 = L
13 = M
14 = N
15 = O
16 = P
17 = Q
18 = R
19 = S
20 = T
21 = U
22 = V
23 = W
24 = X
25 = Y
26 = Z


Y + A + H + W + E + H

25 * 1 * 8 * 23 * 5 * 8
= 184000

1 * 8 * 4
= 32


3 * 2
= 6


I am a Scorpio, I was born on October 23. I'll take the number 23 (or W).

2 * 3
= 6


The 3rd letter from last of my name is a W (or 23 which can be shown to equal 6).

666


I think the odds of that happening is statistically significant, I am* the antichrist.

* The verb "Yahweh" translates from Hebrew into English as "I am"

[phildonnia]

Originally posted by El Greco

...
You take the number 999999
Divide it by 7 = 142857

142857 * 2 = 2857 14
142857 * 3 = 42857 1
142857 * 4 = 57 1428
142857 * 5 = 7 14285
142857 * 6 = 857 142

... and so on



1176470588235294 * 1 = 1176470588235294
1176470588235294 * 2 = 235294 1176470588
1176470588235294 * 3 = 35294 11764705882
1176470588235294 * 4 = 470588235294 1176
1176470588235294 * 5 = 588235294 1176470
1176470588235294 * 6 = 70588235294 11764
1176470588235294 * 7 = 8235294 117647058
1176470588235294 * 8 = 94 11764705882352

Wanna see me do it in Binary?

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by phildonnia
1176470588235294 * 1 = 1176470588235294
1176470588235294 * 2 = 235294 1176470588
1176470588235294 * 3 = 35294 11764705882
1176470588235294 * 4 = 470588235294 1176
1176470588235294 * 5 = 588235294 1176470
1176470588235294 * 6 = 70588235294 11764
1176470588235294 * 7 = 8235294 117647058
1176470588235294 * 8 = 94 11764705882352

Wanna see me do it in Binary?
How different would Numerology be in a base 8 system, how different would Astrology be if all the planets had different names, how different would horoscopes be if all the astrological signs were shifted over to the right by 3...

These are the kinds of questions that may eat up a minute, possibly 2 or 3 minutes, of your day while you think about it...

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Yahweh

How different would Numerology be in a base 8 system, how different would Astrology be if all the planets had different names, how different would horoscopes be if all the astrological signs were shifted over to the right by 3...

These are the kinds of questions that may eat up a minute, possibly 2 or 3 minutes, of your day while you think about it...

Numerology would not be different in different bases, although that is very coll, nonetheless. Numerology comes about from the historical idea that letters were used as numbers at one point. So the greeks and any body else who used the system was used to the idea that words are also numbers. But it is magical only because of it's origination.
We do have the babylonian magic twelve left in our society.

The astrological signs are all different for different cultures I once read that the egyptians had only eight signs.

The really funny thing is that the star signs are all wrong by the astrologers, if you used an astrological ephemeris , you would get lost. The signs being shifted would not be as important as what is happening soon, the vernal equinox is about to move out of pices and into aqaurius, so all the twelve signs change meaning. It just goes to show you the astrological sillyness because the spring sun is not even in ares.

My brother says that creating horoscopes is just a way to give advice to people.

[Skeptical Greg]

I computed the first million decimal places for pi... ( Well, my computer did, anyway...)
3.
1415926535 8979323846 2643383279 5028841971 6939937510 : 50
5820974944 5923078164 0628620899 8628034825 3421170679 : 100
8214808651 3282306647 0938446095 5058223172 5359408128 : 150
4811174502 8410270193 8521105559 6446229489 5493038196 : 200
4428810975 6659334461 2847564823 3786783165 2712019091 : 250
4564856692 3460348610 4543266482 1339360726 0249141273 : 300
7245870066 0631558817 4881520920 9628292540 9171536436 : 350
7892590360 0113305305 4882046652 1384146951 9415116094 : 400
3305727036 5759591953 0921861173 8193261179 3105118548 : 450
0744623799 6274956735 1885752724 8912279381 8301194912 : 500

9833673362 4406566430 8602139494 6395224737 1907021798 : 550
6094370277 0539217176 2931767523 8467481846 7669405132 : 600
0005681271 4526356082 7785771342 7577896091 7363717872 : 650
1468440901 2249534301 4654958537 1050792279 6892589235 : 700
4201995611 2129021960 8640344181 5981362977 4771309960 : 750
5187072113 4999999837 2978049951 0597317328 1609631859 : 800
5024459455 3469083026 4252230825 3344685035 2619311881 : 850
7101000313 7838752886 5875332083 8142061717 7669147303 : 900
5982534904 2875546873 1159562863 8823537875 9375195778 : 950
1857780532 1712268066 1300192787 6611195909 2164201989 : 1000

3809525720 1065485863 2788659361 5338182796 8230301952 : 1050
0353018529 6899577362 2599413891 2497217752 8347913151 : 1100
5574857242 4541506959 5082953311 6861727855 8890750983 : 1150
8175463746 4939319255 0604009277 0167113900 9848824012 : 1200
8583616035 6370766010 4710181942 9555961989 4676783744 : 1250
9448255379 7747268471 0404753464 6208046684 2590694912 : 1300
9331367702 8989152104 7521620569 6602405803 8150193511 : 1350
2533824300 3558764024 7496473263 9141992726 0426992279 : 1400
6782354781 6360093417 2164121992 4586315030 2861829745 : 1450
5570674983 8505494588 5869269956 9092721079 7509302955 : 1500

3211653449 8720275596 0236480665 4991198818 3479775356 : 1550
6369807426 5425278625 5181841757 4672890977 7727938000 : 1600
8164706001 6145249192 1732172147 7235014144 1973568548 : 1650
1613611573 5255213347 5741849468 4385233239 0739414333 : 1700
4547762416 8625189835 6948556209 9219222184 2725502542 : 1750
5688767179 0494601653 4668049886 2723279178 6085784383 : 1800
8279679766 8145410095 3883786360 9506800642 2512520511 : 1850
7392984896 0841284886 2694560424 1965285022 2106611863 : 1900
0674427862 2039194945 0471237137 8696095636 4371917287 : 1950
4677646575 7396241389 0865832645 9958133904 7802759009 : 2000

9465764078 9512694683 9835259570 9825822620 5224894077 : 2050
2671947826 8482601476 9909026401 3639443745 5305068203 : 2100
4962524517 4939965143 1429809190 6592509372 2169646151 : 2150
5709858387 4105978859 5977297549 8930161753 9284681382 : 2200
6868386894 2774155991 8559252459 5395943104 9972524680 : 2250
8459872736 4469584865 3836736222 6260991246 0805124388 : 2300
4390451244 1365497627 8079771569 1435997700 1296160894 : 2350
4169486855 5848406353 4220722258 2848864815 8456028506 : 2400
0168427394 5226746767 8895252138 5225499546 6672782398 : 2450
6456596116 3548862305 7745649803 5593634568 1743241125 : 2500

1507606947 9451096596 0940252288 7971089314 5669136867 : 2550
2287489405 6010150330 8617928680 9208747609 1782493858 : 2600
9009714909 6759852613 6554978189 3129784821 6829989487 : 2650
2265880485 7564014270 4775551323 7964145152 3746234364 : 2700
5428584447 9526586782 1051141354 7357395231 1342716610 : 2750
2135969536 2314429524 8493718711 0145765403 5902799344 : 2800
0374200731 0578539062 1983874478 0847848968 3321445713 : 2850
8687519435 0643021845 3191048481 0053706146 8067491927 : 2900
8191197939 9520614196 6342875444 0643745123 7181921799 : 2950
9839101591 9561814675 1426912397 4894090718 6494231961 : 3000

5679452080 9514655022 5231603881 9301420937 6213785595 : 3050
6638937787 0830390697 9207734672 2182562599 6615014215 : 3100
0306803844 7734549202 6054146659 2520149744 2850732518 : 3150
6660021324 3408819071 0486331734 6496514539 0579626856 : 3200

Note: It took 3,150 places before ' 666 ' showed up...

Can anyone tell me the significance of this?

Can someone asign number values to ' Hitler ', and let me know if you come up with something?


This only took 54 seconds, we can look a lot deeper if anyone is interested..

I have a feeling we might be able to find the complete text of the old Testament if we dig deep enough..


Imagine! The complete text of the Old Testament contained in pi, and within that, we find all kinds of other neat stuff..

Shall we check ' e '....

I have a feeling I have just unlocked some secret of the universe, but the fact that I am not inside a pyramid, may somehow negate ( negate, ooooooh, that rolls off the tongue... ) this....

Go ahead.. Look for cool stuff... Your SSN, drivers licence, auto tag, the script from ' Repo Man'; it's all there...

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Diogenes
I think it's time we initiated the JREF

"Brass Balls"

award...


I suggest it be a monthly award, and we can vote on ' Brass Balls of The Year ' in December...

I nominate Iacchus for January 2004... http://www.dionysus.org/540bc.jpg

Dionysus aboard his ship. Exekias 540 B.C.


One of the surnames of Dionysus -- which, by the way is where the name Dennis comes from -- was the "betesticled one." Hmm ... Must have had something to do with all those grapes I guess? ;) While here's an excerpt from Chapter 5 (http://www.dionysus.org/x0501.html) of my book concerning the visions I had in Northern California (Sonoma County), which is normally referred to as The Wine Country ...


The Russian River

4) And yet a more significant experience happened only two nights later, on March 4th. I had driven my truck from my mother's house, up Highway 101, to a place north of Cloverdale. I pulled off the highway and found a place to park, right alongside the Russian River (which runs from Mendicino County, near Ukiah, south towards Santa Rosa, and out to the Pacific Ocean).

5) I had been living with my mother for six weeks now, and was going through one of the most troubled periods of my life. I had no place else to stay, and had reached a complete state of decline: my whole personal life had collapsed in on me. The fact that I was staying with her severely compounded the situation, as I'd always had problems with her. We weren't relating well at all as I sank lower and lower into the depths of despair. In fact it was so bad that all I could think about was dying: it was the sole thing on my mind and I was hoping I would just go to sleep and not wake up again.

6) So I went to bed that night in the front of my truck, and fell asleep on the front seat. And after a couple of hours I began having a disturbing dream: about three race cars—a red one, a white one, and a blue one—all racing around a race track and running into each other, then bouncing off and running into each other again. This happened several times before I awoke.

7) When I awoke, I looked up and saw a vision of a man, "wearing a white robe." And as I peered up he came into such a view, that I found myself looking underneath his gown—at his testicles coming into full view! Mind you I was wide awake! For some reason it reminded me of my father, who had died a little over a year earlier. Perhaps because of a similar experience I had when I was a boy about ten: I remember seeing my father in a similar fashion when he was sitting on the couch and wearing only a bathrobe.

A Newborn Baby

8) I fell back asleep shortly after this while laying on my back. And was only asleep a short while when I re-awoke to this incredible screeching noise—wailing in my ears! And I opened my eyes to the sight of this newborn baby, which completely filled my vision before me! (I lay on my back looking up at the ceiling of the cab.) Again I was wide awake! It was a breathtaking sight to behold, and when this child cried, he cried in such a demanding way (it was a boy and he cried about ten times), letting the whole world know he had just been delivered and required immediate attending to. I soon became uncomfortable, due to the immediacy of the moment, and desired that the child be removed, for fear I would cause it harm. I kind of backed away, as I lay there crouched in the front seat, and the child was removed, and taken up into heaven.

9) I lay there for a moment, as my mind was struck with wonder. And I heard a song, from up above. It was faint and barely audible but still discernable. It was the song, Age of Aquarius, by the popular musical group, The Fifth Dimension. I know they say we're living in the Aquarian Age, but I'm still not sure what that means? And for another moment I lapsed into a state of unconsciousness. When I re-awoke, there was a vision of a cross, held suspended in the middle of the sky and arrayed in a very special way (as portrayed in the next chapter).

10) Once again I fell asleep, and when I awoke I saw another vision. I was half asleep and it was unclear, but it was the face of a man. It reminded me of George Washington. I immediately fell back asleep and had another dream: I was going to my cousin Judy's house in Fortuna, California (about 200 miles north of Cloverdale on Highway 101), which obviously correlates with Judith (12) of Gerarai and, New Church. (While Fortuna was a Roman fertility goddess, and later the goddess of chance; compare the wheel of fortune.) And I dreamt I was playing Chinese Checkers with her children, a game played with played colored marbles and a round gameboard, within a colored hexagram or six sided star. Which obviously correlates with the symbolism on the front cover and, the color wheel (and loosely coincides with the Seal of God, portrayed in the next chapter).

11) I awoke once more and had a final vision. I opened my eyes and there it was, Humboldt State University, of Arcata, California. It was clear and distinct and looked just as it did when I drove by a few months earlier. And there was a voice, which resounded, Wilmaton University! It was clearly unusual, but I understood what it meant: it ties in my stepmother, whose name is Wilma—she is/was a professor there—with my father, whose last name is Hamilton. And when conjoined you get, Wilmaton. And no, George Washington didn't cross the Delaware River at Wilmington (as I suspected he did). I have a better idea about this in the next chapter, regarding the Masonic Connection. I had also been working with my visualization technique earlier, and wondering what college I might address in my mind, to channel my spiritual energy there. I was living in Santa Rosa at the time, and considered Santa Rosa Junior College, but it didn't seem suitable. So I left it as an open question, while Humboldt State didn't even occur to me. And when I had this vision, I knew it was the fulfillment of that.

The Anthesteria

12) That which makes these experiences even more unusual are the dates they occurred: "March 2nd and the 4th." For these are the proximate dates of the ancient Greek festival of Dionysia (among other festivals by this name), held in honor of Dionysus, god of Wine and Ecstasy. This particular festival was called the Anthesteria, and/or Lenea, and centered about the sanctuary of Dionysus (or Lenaeum), whose shrine was opened on only one day in the year. Its dates were from the 11th to the 13th of Anthesterion or, about March 2nd to the 4th. (And it was attended by the fourteen Gerarai!) While at the time I had no knowledge of Dionysus, nor of this festival in his honor. It's equally interesting that my name, Dennis, comes from Dionysus, something I also found out later. (The name Dennis also means, discerner of excellence.)

13) Dionysus was also called the god of confrontation, and was known for his many epiphanies: he had more epiphanies and manifestations than any other god. One epiphany of particular interest, that occured during the Anthesteria, happened when he sailed across the Aegean Sea, in his black ship: from the coast of Asia Minor (Turkey) to the mainland of Greece, before making his appearance in Athens—with his ship on wheels. Similar to a pickup truck? I've seen depictions of Greek art with Dionysus aboard his ship, and there's a remarkable similarity between his ship, and the ancient sailing vessel in my dream. The only significant difference was that of the color, his was black while the one I was aboard was made out of gold.

14) Dionysus was also called the twice-born god, and his advent (rebirth) was often celebrated by placing a newborn baby in a cradle (winnowing basket?), and having him roused from his slumber by attendant female nurses. It usually occurred during the winter, and these nurses were the Maenads, the attendant followers of the god. Strikingly enough, it compares with my rebirth experience in the front of my truck.

15) I might add that when Dionysus was first born, he was born at the destruction of his mother, Semele, a mortal and a virgin, who had conceived him by Zeus. She was destroyed, when she mistook the treachery of Hera—the ever-jealous and vengeful wife of Zeus—for friendly counsel. Hera persuaded Semele to ask Zeus to reveal himself to her, "in all his glory," as he did with his wife (Hera herself). Consequently Zeus revealed himself to Semele, as thunder and lightning, and she was incinerated to ashes. All that was left was the six month old fetus (six weeks?), which Zeus, through the aid of Hermes, picked up and sewed into his thigh—to further the gestation period. Dionysus was thus born a second time by his father Zeus. And so correlates with the vision of the man I had prior to the rebirth experience: whose testicles came into view and, had reminded me of my father, suggesting I was born a second time by my father as well; either my earthly or, heavenly father.

[phildonnia]

Originally posted by Yahweh

How different would Numerology be in a base 8 system, ...


Base 8, eh? Hmm, Well for starters

25 * 1 = 25
25 * 2 = 52

Oh, here's a better one:
1463 * 1 = 1463
1463 * 2 = 3146
1463 * 3 = 4631
1463 * 4 = 6314

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
http://www.dionysus.org/540bc.jpg

Dionysus aboard his ship. Exekias 540 B.C.


One of the surnames of Dionysus -- which, by the way is where the name Dennis comes from -- was the "betesticled one." Hmm ... Must have had something to do with all those grapes I guess? ;) While here's an excerpt from Chapter 5 (http://www.dionysus.org/x0501.html) of my book concerning the visions I had in Northern California (Sonoma County), which is normally referred to as The Wine Country ...
[/i]

Yes, I suppose why bother refuting what anyone said. Instead, how about you post something completely meaningless and unrelated, oh, you did, ok.

[Iacchus]

Oh, in case anyone would like to understand a little more significance to Dionysus being aboard his ship, here are the first three paragraphs of Chapter 5 (http://www.dionysus.org/x0501.html) ...


In The Spirit

1) On the night of March 2nd, 1987, I had a very unusual experience. As I lay asleep, I was roused to consciousness, to find myself awake, but not in my material body. I possessed my full faculty to think but, found myself in my spiritual body instead: i.e., I was In the Spirit (similar to St. John's words in Revelation 1:10).

2) I awoke to find myself standing aboard an ancient Greek sailing vessel, most probably Greek, tossing and rolling amidst the open sea. The ship was wrought of solid gold throughout, and had a huge rectangular sail, fully spread over a single mast. I stood on the deck for a moment, and peered across the open sea, as the ship sailed into the night.

3) And I remembered going down below, to find myself amongst several men—walking around in their white underwear—in what appeared to be a locker room. I don't recall what happened next, but I either fell back asleep or woke up immediately afterwards (in my material body). I was staying with my mother at her house at the time, in Santa Rosa, California. It was also the first time I experienced being aboard a ship in my dreams.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

Yes, I suppose why bother refuting what anyone said. Instead, how about you post something completely meaningless and unrelated, oh, you did, ok. Give me half a chance and I might just do that. Besides, can you explain to me why this is any more meaningless than the majority of "trash" (trashing?) which has been posted so far?

That was your 749th post by the way, which is not good. It's basically a declaration of war, and in effect says your "heritage" is a whore (with respect to me).

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Give me half a chance and I might just do that. Besides, can you explain to me why this is any more meaningless than the majority of "trash" (trashing?) which has been posted so far?

You keep claiming your dreams are somehow meaningful because they are so weird. Lemme tell you, your dreams are TAME. You should see some of my dreams (or some dream journals people have who have problems with dreams). Also, for some reason, you insist that you've had visions, when they'd much explained much more redily by dreaming, since you were asleep before, and asleep after. Just because you are dreaming about the place where you fell asleep, does not mean you are awake (I myself can recall many times falling asleep in church, but still seeing an after image of everything around me, I suppose trying to fool myself into thinking I was still awake)

[Skeptical Greg]

Really Russ, that was really pretty cool the way he responded to the ' Brass Balls ' award, with the tale about his father's testicles..


Let's give credit where credit is due...

[c4ts]

I once had a spiritual vision where I had to track down and kill James Bond on a rocket pack.

Wait, that was no vision, that was real!

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep

I think he has proven that he is either a troll or extraordinarily credulous. I don't think I need any more proof either. How about both, if that's at all possible? Or, somewhere in between?

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Diogenes
Really Russ, that was really pretty cool the way he responded to the ' Brass Balls ' award, with the tale about his father's testicles..


Let's give credit where credit is due...

I do find the humor, and there's always value in that.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

Why should your work tag have any special cosmic meaning? If your work tag didn't work out for the example, I'm sure you would have used your address, your phone number, part of your social. The possibilities are endless.

Looks like one of those laundry instruction tags to me...

I fail to see how any of this links up to the picture in any way, you just drew three arbituary shapes, and drew numbers in them, you even have the same number in there twice. You don't even have 10. Also, go back and read your bible, there seem to be more than 10 commandments in there.

If that isn't cheating and smudging it, I don't know what is.

you still have 4 twice, and 10 doesn't apear

You squared them for no other reason to make this happen.

You put the 0 in the middle for no other reason than to make this happen, and its nothing special

x0y * 11 is always going to equal xxyy. Also, you chose 11 for no other reason than to make this happen.

Really? Why not do it with latin, or english, or hebrew, why choose greek? Because it works in greek, that is the only reason.

I've wasted enough of my life reading chapters of your book. If it wasn't for the badge; and if it wasn't for the vision; and if it wasn't for the name Ennis coming up in a book of names -- which, was very specific when stating it was Greek for "the 9th" -- then indeed, there would be no need to bring it up here.

As for choosing the language (it wasn't a matter choice really, it just came up that way), the name Dennis is Greek in origin and comes from Dionysus.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
If it wasn't for the badge; and if it wasn't for the vision; and if it wasn't for the name Ennis coming up in a book of names -- which, was very specific when stating it was Greek for "the 9th" -- then indeed, there would be no need to bring it up here.

As for choosing the language (it wasn't a matter choice really, it just came up that way), the name Dennis is Greek in origin and comes from Dionysus.

What I'm talking about here is the number of events in your life that occured, but had nothing to do with this, or the number of things you read, but had nothing to do with this. You aren't looking at your huge number of misses, you are only looking at your hits.

Also, I'll point out again, you claimed that you are using what was available to the "old testament" jews and the early christians. Arabic numerals as we know them today, and as you use for your numerology did not exist for them. There was no 444,. no 123, no 10 backwards as 01. You'll even find that the word "zero" never apears in the bible, because they had no concept of it. Its all 4 and 20, etc.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Iacchus
And so correlates with the vision of the man I had prior to the rebirth experience: whose testicles came into view

Hmmm... could you draw a picture or something ? :D

Originally posted by Iacchus
the name Dennis is Greek in origin and comes from Dionysus.

Now that I think of it, there is indeed a connection. Dionysus was the god of wine, among others. Have you been drinking ?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

What I'm talking about here is the number of events in your life that occured, but had nothing to do with this, or the number of things you read, but had nothing to do with this. You aren't looking at your huge number of misses, you are only looking at your hits.No, it actually begins with making the first connection and, if it wasn't for the events which occurred along the Russian River above, I wouldn't have discovered a whole myriad of connections -- over the course of ten years or so -- and I wouldn't be here writing about it. In fact if you read the book, you would understand how extensive these connections really are.


Also, I'll point out again, you claimed that you are using what was available to the "old testament" jews and the early christians. Arabic numerals as we know them today, and as you use for your numerology did not exist for them. There was no 444,. no 123, no 10 backwards as 01. You'll even find that the word "zero" never apears in the bible, because they had no concept of it. Its all 4 and 20, etc. Afraid not. I never said this. I did say these were the only materials available -- i.e., that I understood were standards -- at the time. Now that's a big difference.

Matter of fact, how else do you think it could have possibly happened, without me doing a tremendous amount of research? (which I didn't).

However, I will admit that I didn't understand otherwise, that these weren't standards back at that time either (Biblical times).

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Give me half a chance and I might just do that. Besides, can you explain to me why this is any more meaningless than the majority of "trash" (trashing?) which has been posted so far?

That was your 749th post by the way, which is not good. It's basically a declaration of war, and in effect says your "heritage" is a whore (with respect to me).

I would say that you are having visions from the usual source of visions, the human brain. And while they have personal meaning for you, I don't feel that they point to any universal truths. They most likely point to personal truths for you.
My interpretation of collective unconsious is that we all have an unconsious which is influenced by culture, experience and biology, so we each have a unique view into the 'unconsious'.

If you had a vision that was about some knowledge or material that could not be garnered through any other means accesible to you then I would fell that there was something other than persoanl validity to your vision experiences.

You will note that i am not trashing your experience, just setting it in a different frame. As I recall the oracle at delphi interpreted the draems of others, because they were able to interpret the personal context of the dreamer.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by RussDill


There was no 444,. no 123, no 10 backwards as 01. You'll even find that the word "zero" never apears in the bible, because they had no concept of it. Its all 4 and 20, etc.

I am in agreement about the zero thing, while the hebrai used letters as numbers they did not use a place holder, they did eventualy have a thousands mark.

yod=ten and aleph=1, the two are different letters. There are ways to create the numeral 123 and 444 but I would have to consult a kabbalistic dictionary to find the associated words. That is why in the bible it refers to methuselah living to be 999 there is some word that creates that value. That is the bible code.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by c4ts
I once had a spiritual vision where I had to track down and kill James Bond on a rocket pack.

Wait, that was no vision, that was real!

I can one up you. I once had a dream...err..vsion that I p!ssed off Jeff Bridges and he hired a bunch of asassins to kill me.

I hope that wasn't real anyway

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
No, it actually begins with making the first connection and, if it wasn't for the events which occurred along the Russian River above, I wouldn't have discovered a whole myriad of connections -- over the course of ten years or so -- and I wouldn't be here writing about it. In fact if you read the book, you would understand how extensive these connections really are.


You fail to see what I'm pointing out. What I'm pointing out are the millions of events in those 10 years that happened, but you didn't manage to find a connection in. Like the time you went to the store and the total was 12.43, or when you got 1.42 in change back. Or the time there were 5 cracks in the sidewalk, or the time when a green car went by, then a red one, or the time when 4 people were walking in a group. Not to mention the countless dreams you had in that time period that did not connect to anything.

What I'm saying is, I'm not surprised by reading the connections you have found over a 10 year period. They don't seem above coincidence or chance to me.


Afraid not. I never said this. I did say these were the only materials available -- i.e., that I understood were standards -- at the time. Now that's a big difference.

Matter of fact, how else do you think it could have possibly happened, without me doing a tremendous amount of research? (which I didn't).

However, I will admit that I didn't understand otherwise, that these weren't standards back at that time either (Biblical times).

so, how then does it make any sense to say things like "10 backwards in hebrew is 01" ten in hebrew would simply be ten (afaik), so 10 backwards would be ten. Also, something like 4 and twenty backwards would be twenty and 4, so it would be the same.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Dancing David


I am in agreement about the zero thing, while the hebrai used letters as numbers they did not use a place holder, they did eventualy have a thousands mark.

yod=ten and aleph=1, the two are different letters. There are ways to create the numeral 123 and 444 but I would have to consult a kabbalistic dictionary to find the associated words. That is why in the bible it refers to methuselah living to be 999 there is some word that creates that value. That is the bible code.

my point is, is that many of the special meanings he applies to numbers only have special meanings because of the arabic place value system. Also, many of the "calculations" he does only make sense in the arabic place value system.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

my point is, is that many of the special meanings he applies to numbers only have special meanings because of the arabic place value system. Also, many of the "calculations" he does only make sense in the arabic place value system. Of course you base your whole argument upon the fact that God doesn't exist but, what if it were otherwise? What difference would it make then?

Also, did you know that if you take an equilateral triangle -- itself a symbol of universality -- that it can accomodate ten circles (or pennys as I said before) exactly? Thus it would seem to suggest the decimal system is "universally" derived as well.

While here there are four levels or "tiers" of circles, which are comprised of 4 circles, 3 circles, 2 circles and 1 circle respectively. Which can also be labled as 4 circles, 7 circles, 9 circles and 10 circles. So, do you see any possible connections between the number 479 and the "advent" of the decimal system? (the number 11 as well).

This is better is better illustrated by the 479 - Winpress symbol shown in the next thread, You Want More Proof (3)? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33588)

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Also, did you know that if you take an equilateral triangle -- itself a symbol of universality -- that it can accomodate ten circles (or pennys as I said before) exactly? Thus it would seem to suggest the decimal system is "universally" derived as well.
I am a pretty sharp pool player, the Triangle Rack comfortably seats 15 round balls. Perhaps Base-15 is something you should look into?

In fact, you can use a simple summation set or recursive function to give you the number of you balls of your choice.

Iterations of the set would like this:

1
3
6
10
15
21
28
36
45
55
66
78
91
105
120
136
153
...

And so on.

By the way, I am completely in the dark as to how you found a logical connection between "Triangles can fit 10 pennies" and "the decimal system is universally derived".


Your numerology just isnt impressive.

Hey, did you know for any given existenct right triangle, the sum of the squares of each of its legs is equal to the square of its hypotenuse? Yep, its true!

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Iacchus

Also, did you know that if you take an equilateral triangle -- itself a symbol of universality -- that it can accomodate ten circles (or pennys as I said before) exactly? Thus it would seem to suggest the decimal system is "universally" derived as well.

While here there are four levels or "tiers" of circles, which are comprised of 4 circles, 3 circles, 2 circles and 1 circle respectively. Which can also be labled as 4 circles, 7 circles, 9 circles and 10 circles. So, do you see any possible connections between the number 479 and the "advent" of the decimal system? (the number 11 as well).http://www.dionysus.org/art0802.gif

Wow! And I just realized something. That the number 479 also plots the trajectory angle of the pyramid itself (60 degrees), of which the badge is being strung up to the top of. Now that's uncanny!

While it may also answer your question about how the "10" fits into the following symbol? ...

http://www.dionysus.org/art0805.gif

[Yahweh]

1 = A
2 = B
3 = C
4 = D
5 = E
6 = F
7 = G
8 = H
9 = I
10 = J
11 = K
12 = L
13 = M
14 = N
15 = O
16 = P
17 = Q
18 = R
19 = S
20 = T
21 = U
22 = V
23 = W
24 = X
25 = Y
26 = Z


Y (25)
A (1)
H (8)
W (23)
E (5)
H (8)

If I take the letter H (8) and multiply it by 666, I get the number 5328.

Notice the way I color coordinated the letters...

5328 in reverse is 8235. Those are the numbers 8, 23, and 5, or the letters H, W, and E. Wow, who'd a thunk 666 could spell YAHWEH.


Check this out:

666 * W (25) = 15318

15318

Its easier to see if I put the number vertically.

1
5
3
1
8

Y (25)
A (01)


1
5
3
1
8

H (08)
W (23)


1
5
3
1
8

E (05)
H (08)


You see how the final number in each of my letters correspond perfectly with H * 666. The final decimal place of each numerical representation of the characters in my name corresponds perfectly to characters in the number H * 666 (which is 15318).


Now, what are the odds that my name would have so many connections to the number 666? I think its too much of a coincidence that letters of my name multiplied by 666 still equal letters of my name. Once again, I am the anti-christ.

[Dorian Gray]

In fact, you can use a simple summation set or recursive function to give you the number of balls of your choice.

Iterations of the set would like this:

1
3
6
10
15
21
28
36
45
55
66
78
91
105
120
136
153
...

And so on. That's a lot of balls. Remind you of anyone?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Yahweh

By the way, I am completely in the dark as to how you found a logical connection between "Triangles can fit 10 pennies" and "the decimal system is universally derived".Actually, I think it was the bowling pin configurations. ;)

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Actually, I think it was the bowling pin configurations. ;)
What?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Yahweh

You see how the final number in each of my letters correspond perfectly with H * 666. The final decimal place of each numerical representation of the characters in my name corresponds perfectly to characters in the number H * 666 (which is 15318).

Now, what are the odds that my name would have so many connections to the number 666? I think its too much of a coincidence that letters of my name multiplied by 666 still equal letters of my name. Once again, I am the anti-christ.Like I said ...


Originally posted by Iacchus

If it wasn't for the badge; and if it wasn't for the vision; and if it wasn't for the name Ennis coming up in a book of names -- which, was very specific when stating it was Greek for "the 9th" -- then indeed, there would be no need to bring it up here.

As for choosing the language (it wasn't a matter choice really, it just came up that way), the name Dennis is Greek in origin and comes from Dionysus.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Yahweh

What? Actually the universality of the decimal system makes a lot more sense when looking at it terms of the 479 - Winepress symbol in the next thread, You Want More Proof (3)? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33691) ... where it becomes incorporated into the hexagram. I forgot to mention that I had also been working with this in conjunction with the bowling pins.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
http://www.dionysus.org/art0802.gif

Wow! And I just realized something. That the number 479 also plots the trajectory angle of the pyramid itself (60 degrees), of which the badge is being strung up to the top of. Now that's uncanny!
The trajectory of the pyramid is 60 degrees, the trajectory of the badge at which the badge is strung from is 30 degrees (respectively from the pyramid). How did you get the number 479?

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Of course you base your whole argument upon the fact that God doesn't exist but, what if it were otherwise? What difference would it make then?


I don't think I've ever used that in my argument. And even if a god exists, it doesn't validate any of your arguments, I think most Gods I've heard of would smote you on the spot for hereasy.


Also, did you know that if you take an equilateral triangle -- itself a symbol of universality -- that it can accomodate ten circles (or pennys as I said before) exactly? Thus it would seem to suggest the decimal system is "universally" derived as well.


Actially, no, it doesn't fit them excactly, there is a lot of empty space. Also, there are likely an infinate number of different amounts of circles that a equiladeral triangle would fit exactly 15, and 1 are good starter examples. Also, you assume for this that a triangle and circle are the special shapes that should show this, and not say, squares and triangles. Base 10 is far from universal anyway, many cultures thoughout recorded history have used other bases.


While here there are four levels or "tiers" of circles, which are comprised of 4 circles, 3 circles, 2 circles and 1 circle respectively. Which can also be labled as 4 circles, 7 circles, 9 circles and 10 circles. So, do you see any possible connections between the number 479 and the "advent" of the decimal system? (the number 11 as well).


I see millions of configurations of geometric (as well as ways of counting them) shapes that could show any number you want. An equalateral triangle with 10 circles is no more special than any other geometric configuration. Also, if you add from top to bottom instead, you would get 136, which doesn't fit anywhere in your numerology, add to that, you forgot to add the last number.


This is better is better illustrated by the 479 - Winpress symbol shown in the next thread, You Want More Proof (3)? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33588)

uh-huh, since just about everything has been picked apart here, lets move on....

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
http://www.dionysus.org/art0802.gif

Wow! And I just realized something. That the number 479 also plots the trajectory angle of the pyramid itself (60 degrees), of which the badge is being strung up to the top of. Now that's uncanny!


ummm...whatever. First, it doesn't look like a pyrimid to me. What are the horizontal lines for...second, it looks more like the symbol for do not bleach or something, third, the number 479 has nothing to do with the diagram except that its written there. Forth, any coincidences to real world structures are not surprising, as it would have been designed by your right brain.


While it may also answer your question about how the "10" fits into the following symbol? ...

http://www.dionysus.org/art0805.gif

not really, and it also still doesn't answer why 4 apears twice.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Actually, I think it was the bowling pin configurations. ;)

so now bowling has a special cosmic meaning?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Yahweh

The trajectory of the pyramid is 60 degrees, the trajectory of the badge at which the badge is strung from is 30 degrees (respectively from the pyramid). How did you get the number 479? Like I said at the beginning of the thread, it was the number of the badge I was given at work. Whereas the picture posted of it (strung up to the top of the pyramid) was the vision I had a month or so later.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Also, did you know that if you take an equilateral triangle -- itself a symbol of universality -- that it can accomodate ten circles (or pennys as I said before) exactly? Thus it would seem to suggest the decimal system is "universally" derived as well.



Oh my, you don't realize how arbitrary that is do you, it is also a amathematical thing but as yahweh pointed out it doesn't stop at 10, it continues.

What about the 3-d arrangement? what does that become? 1,3,6...

The size of the circles effects how many fit exactly, you do know that there are gaps between the circles don't you?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Dancing David

Oh my, you don't realize how arbitrary that is do you, it is also a amathematical thing but as yahweh pointed out it doesn't stop at 10, it continues.http://www.dionysus.org/art0802.gif

No, it begins with 479, as illustrated in the vision ...


What about the 3-d arrangement? what does that become? 1,3,6...And why is it so necessary to make the whole thing obscure?


The size of the circles effects how many fit exactly, you do know that there are gaps between the circles don't you? If you vary the size of the circles it also varies the size of the triangle. The key here is that all the circles remain equal in size. ;)

[T'ai Chi]

Hi Iacchus,

It sounds like you are very interesting in numbers. :)

I've studied mathematics and statistics for the last 6 years and have 2 degrees from that. Needless to say, I've found that it is quite easy and most of the time useful to put things in terms of numbers.

With the types of numbers you are working with, you want to be extra cautious and make sure the real-life connections you make to the numbers are not illusory. This not because you are unintelligent, etc., I don't think that. It is because it is possible to attach numbers to just about anything, and there are so many (understatement of the century) relationships between the numbers themselves.

You might find this site interesting for future mathematical needs: http://mathworld.wolfram.com

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Iacchus
http://www.dionysus.org/art0802.gif

No, it begins with 479, as illustrated in the vision ...


thats because you combine the first two elements of the series. 1,2,3,4....>>1,3,6,10...
And in the end it will only have personal meaning as your vision, my magic number is 713, which i deliberatly created.



And why is it so necessary to make the whole thing obscure?

same:same



If you vary the size of the circles it also varies the size of the triangle. The key here is that all the circles remain equal in size. ;)

Then I can put the smaller circles in between the circles , no? Circles are circles and will only occupy the triangle as they approach an infinitly small size.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Dancing David

Then I can put the smaller circles in between the circles , no? Circles are circles and will only occupy the triangle as they approach an infinitly small size. What's the point in counting to ten, if each number didn't represent an "integer value" of 1?

[sackett]

On a map, draw a line between Stonehenge, Cairo, and Delphi. What do you get? Riiiiight! A triangle!

They don't want you to know that.

[NullPointerException]

God help us if woo-woos ever progress to integration by parts! Everytime they get three constants bam bam bam=

Therefore we have (x^3)/4 + c - (x^2)/3 + c - (x)/2 +c

Obviously since I saw 666 in my dream last night...

(x^3)/4 + 6 - (x^2)/3 + 6 - (x)/2 +6

Now we differentiate, which gets rid of the devils number...
Thus proving that differentiating numbers is godly and good and that integration, especially by parts due to it's ability to generate such constants, is evil.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by sackett
On a map, draw a line between Stonehenge, Cairo, and Delphi. What do you get? Riiiiight! A triangle!

They don't want you to know that.

A very intersting Triangle, at that...

http://www.intergate.com/~gregorygatz/images/tri.jpg

[sackett]

Let Iacchus do this:

Now, on a map of the world or someplace like that, draw a line from Groom Lake, another line from Istambul, and another line from Macchu Picchu in Argentina. Keep drawing.

You see the fiendish complexity of it all? Wait, I already said that, I mean the fiendish SIMPLICITY of it all?

My head hurts.

[Acrimonious]

Why do Numerologists limit themselves to simple mathematical operations?

Just look at all the nonsense we can get by using only simple arithmetic. Imagine the vast volumes of nonsense we could get if these "number experts" had gone further than 5th grade Math!

Just once, I'd like to see a modulus, a factorization, a factorial, a cube and/or cube root (or any power other than square), and even a derivation and an integration.

Think about it! If you can use a Numerological function to find that 479 = Dennis, could we find the derivative of 479 with respect to Dennis to discover the Rate of Change of Dennis, and perhaps predict the date of Dennis's demise? Could we integrate the function and discover the area between Dennis and zero and calculate his weight or volume? Imagine the possibilities!

I suppose the "simple math" is the inherent bonus of Numerology? Fun with numbers, with none of the hard stuff? Arbitrarily explain the mysteries of the Universe using only +-*/!! You don't even have to observe My Dear Aunt Suzie!

[Suezoled]

I for one am tired of arguing with a sock puppet.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Acrimonious
Why do Numerologists limit themselves to simple mathematical operations?

Just look at all the nonsense we can get by using only simple arithmetic. Imagine the vast volumes of nonsense we could get if these "number experts" had gone further than 5th grade Math!

Just once, I'd like to see a modulus, a factorization, a factorial, a cube and/or cube root (or any power other than square), and even a derivation and an integration.

Think about it! If you can use a Numerological function to find that 479 = Dennis, could we find the derivative of 479 with respect to Dennis to discover the Rate of Change of Dennis, and perhaps predict the date of Dennis's demise? Could we integrate the function and discover the area between Dennis and zero and calculate his weight or volume? Imagine the possibilities!

I suppose the "simple math" is the inherent bonus of Numerology? Fun with numbers, with none of the hard stuff? Arbitrarily explain the mysteries of the Universe using only +-*/!! You don't even have to observe My Dear Aunt Suzie! Did you bother to read the first part of this thread? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33588&perpage=40&pagenumber=1) Where I speak about the badge and the number 479 and the vision I had? These were two separate instances, totally beyond my control which, if they hadn't happened we wouldn't be discussing it here.

Also, did it ever occur to you that if you make things too complicated then only the "learned" would know? And what good is there in that?

Isn't this essentially what the Roman Catholic Church accomplished by printing the Bible in Latin (speaking it in Latin as well) as a means to keep the masses in the dark and under their controL?

What good is faith if you can't base upon something simple that you can understand?

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Did you bother to read the first part of this thread? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33588&perpage=40&pagenumber=1) Where I speak about the badge and the number 479 and the vision I had? These were two separate instances, totally beyond my control which, if they hadn't happened we wouldn't be discussing it here.


No, we'd be having a slightly different discussion about some other coincidence in your life. Now, what would be really odd, is if there were *no* coincidences in your life, that would be a serious statistical anomoly.


Also, did it ever occur to you that if you make things too complicated then only the "learned" would know? And what good is there in that?


We do do our best, but it is complicated. Anyone who wishes to study any of area of science can, its not blocked off, or purposely made more complicated.

I'm not sure what you mean for science to do, stop making advances beyond anything a 12 year old can understand? Should we make a serious effort for even the layperson to understand the black magic of high speed digital design?


Isn't this essentially what the Roman Catholic Church accomplished by printing the Bible in Latin (speaking it in Latin as well) as a means to keep the masses in the dark and under their controL?


Well lets see, is science doing anything to purposely keep society in the dark? Or is it an open and transparent process.

However, your process is closed, we can never know by what way the number 42 was chosen to mean one thing, and the number 8 chosen to mean another.


What good is faith if you can't base upon something simple that you can understand?

Blind faith is worthless.

[Acrimonious]

Did you bother to read the first part of this thread? Where I speak about the badge and the number 479 and the vision I had? These were two separate instances, totally beyond my control which, if they hadn't happened we wouldn't be discussing it here.


Yes, I read that thread. My point has obviously gone right over your head.

Also, did it ever occur to you that if you make things too complicated then only the "learned" would know? And what good is there in that?


You have a very refined prejudice towards the intelligent.

Nobody is "making things" complicated. Nobody sits down and says "Gee, parallax is too easy to understand. Let's sit down and make the equation more cryptic so only WE know how to estimate distances to far-away celestial objects."

Things get complicated because THINGS ARE COMPLICATED. Science and Scientists only observe the world and model it. Any complication that arises is because what is being observed is complicated.

I have 2 apples. I eat 1 apple. How many apples do I have left?

The math for this is simple.

A Uranium-238 atom has a percent probability of absorbing a neutron and becoming Uranium-239. It will then give off a beta particle and become Neptunium-239. This will give off yet another beta particle and become Plutonium-239. Pu-239 can then be used as fissible material to produce energy and neutrons that will create more Pu-239.

The math for this is complicated.

Tell me how Numerology would explain the Nuclear cycle of a Breeder Reactor? Would it count up all the letters in URANIUM and then add its atomic weight? Add the number of Neutrons, but arbitrarily stick a zero in the middle of the number? How does Numerology model an emitted beta particle? Divide the result by b+e+t+a? How do you decide what b, e, t, and a stand for?

Massage the numbers all you want to get the result, it's still meaningless. Perform the same functions on U235, and you'll get nothing even resembling a fission reaction.

Is my point clear? Or is this too intelligent for you? Should I dumb it down, so everyone will understand?

Numerology is arbitrary. Values are assigned specifically to help towards the goal. Mathematical operations are chosen and performed in an order specifically to help towards the goal. In Numerology, you already know outcome before you begin choosing arbitrary numbers. The fact that you were able to pick the right numbers after a try or two, and massage those numbers to reach the goal only proves you can do elementary arithmetic (or that you can use a calculator), not that you have discovered a mystical connection between what you started with, and what you predictably (since it's exactly what YOU WANTED TO END UP WITH) ended up with.

The "equations" and "relationships" you come up with work only for the one specific pairing you worked to "prove." Using your example, if I were to give you my work badge #, you could not perform the same operations you used on your own badge to get my name. Want to try?

Badge # 229. My name is in my JREF Board Account. Any moderator will be able to congratulate you on your success, should you prove me wrong.

On the other hand, the Sciences use math to explain how things work. If I know my mass, and my acceleration, I can tell you how much force is behind my movement. The equation works for anyone of any mass, of any force or acceleration. It works, and it works every single time.

Isn't this essentially what the Roman Catholic Church accomplished by printing the Bible in Latin (speaking it in Latin as well) as a means to keep the masses in the dark and under their controL?


Here's that prejudice again. Did you ever stop to think that perhaps you live your comfortable life because Intelligent People have shared their findings with the rest of the world? Central Heating? Air Conditioning? Internal Combustion Engine? Refrigeration? Cell phones? The Internet?

Yep, all created by Intelligent People who shared their work. No, numerology didn't help create a single one of them.

What good is faith if you can't base upon something simple that you can understand?

Oh, I see. This isn't about science. This is about faith. I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that your Faith is going to explain just as much about the real world has Faith has for everyone since the Man first stood up on his hind legs: Absolutely Nothing. But I'm sure it'll sure make you feel all warm and gooey and make you sleep well at night.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Acrimonious

Yes, I read that thread. My point has obviously gone right over your head.Or, perhaps it's through your misrepresenation of what I'm trying to say that I am unable to reply?


You have a very refined prejudice towards the intelligent. No, I just have a problem with "bias" in general.


Nobody is "making things" complicated. Nobody sits down and says "Gee, parallax is too easy to understand. Let's sit down and make the equation more cryptic so only WE know how to estimate distances to far-away celestial objects."Why complicate things if it isn't necessary? Why hack to pieces the whole of creation, indeed to where it's longer recognizable, and then have the audacity to insist, "Where is God now?"


Things get complicated because THINGS ARE COMPLICATED. Science and Scientists only observe the world and model it. Any complication that arises is because what is being observed is complicated.

I have 2 apples. I eat 1 apple. How many apples do I have left?

The math for this is simple.Simply amazing!

A Uranium-238 atom has a percent probability of absorbing a neutron and becoming Uranium-239. It will then give off a beta particle and become Neptunium-239. This will give off yet another beta particle and become Plutonium-239. Pu-239 can then be used as fissible material to produce energy and neutrons that will create more Pu-239.

The math for this is complicated..So what? Give me the apples instead!


Tell me how Numerology would explain the Nuclear cycle of a Breeder Reactor? Would it count up all the letters in URANIUM and then add its atomic weight? Add the number of Neutrons, but arbitrarily stick a zero in the middle of the number? How does Numerology model an emitted beta particle? Divide the result by b+e+t+a? How do you decide what b, e, t, and a stand for?And why would I need it to explain something which is a complete waste of resources? There is nothing about it which is necessary here.


Massage the numbers all you want to get the result, it's still meaningless. Perform the same functions on U235, and you'll get nothing even resembling a fission reaction.

Is my point clear? Or is this too intelligent for you? Should I dumb it down, so everyone will understand?The point being that numerology may be useless for what otherwise might be deemed a useless endeavor? There are lots of people who don't agree with the "usefulness" of nuclear power by the way.


Numerology is arbitrary. Values are assigned specifically to help towards the goal. Mathematical operations are chosen and performed in an order specifically to help towards the goal. In Numerology, you already know outcome before you begin choosing arbitrary numbers. The fact that you were able to pick the right numbers after a try or two, and massage those numbers to reach the goal only proves you can do elementary arithmetic (or that you can use a calculator), not that you have discovered a mystical connection between what you started with, and what you predictably (since it's exactly what YOU WANTED TO END UP WITH) ended up with.The number was already there, as was the symbolism, through the vision I had.


The "equations" and "relationships" you come up with work only for the one specific pairing you worked to "prove." Using your example, if I were to give you my work badge #, you could not perform the same operations you used on your own badge to get my name. Want to try?

Badge # 229. My name is in my JREF Board Account. Any moderator will be able to congratulate you on your success, should you prove me wrong.I don't know? If I had a vision about it, perhaps I could? ;)


On the other hand, the Sciences use math to explain how things work. If I know my mass, and my acceleration, I can tell you how much force is behind my movement. The equation works for anyone of any mass, of any force or acceleration. It works, and it works every single time.Hurray!


Here's that prejudice again. Did you ever stop to think that perhaps you live your comfortable life because Intelligent People have shared their findings with the rest of the world? Central Heating? Air Conditioning? Internal Combustion Engine? Refrigeration? Cell phones? The Internet?And what about all the enviromental hazards we generate in the process, strictly because we live in a "material world" and everbody's got to have all these things?


Yep, all created by Intelligent People who shared their work. No, numerology didn't help create a single one of them.I think you've given "yourself" a little too much credit here. ;)


Oh, I see. This isn't about science. This is about faith. I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that your Faith is going to explain just as much about the real world has Faith has for everyone since the Man first stood up on his hind legs: Absolutely Nothing. But I'm sure it'll sure make you feel all warm and gooey and make you sleep well at night. What is faith, if not a system of beliefs?

While let me ask you this, do you have a lot of "faith" in what science can do with nuclear power?

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Or, perhaps it's through your misrepresenation of what I'm trying to say that I am unable to reply?


Umm..right, both he and I have asked some pretty basic questions, why would you be unable to reply?


No, I just have a problem with "bias" in general.


OK, and what bias are you attacking here?


Why complicate things if it isn't necessary?


Humanity has an innate desire to understand how things work. Also, current theoritical physics is (and has been) based on the desire to simplify. A good example of is the unification of the electrical and magnetic forces.


Why hack to pieces the whole of creation, indeed to where it's longer recognizable, and then have the audacity to insist, "Where is God now?"


When and where has "creation" been hacked to peices? Nothing has been hacked to pieces. Scientists are understanding the beauty of "creation". Nothing is being torn apart, nothing is being made unrecognizable (unless you can explain to me how). And scientists do not look up and ask "Where is god". People point, and go, "look, over there, its God", scientists look up and go "where?"


So what? Give me the apples instead!


That calculation is pretty simple compared to the ones that were worked out that make the operation of your computer possible. However, if you'd rather just have some apples than a computer...WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST BY SOME APPLES?


The number was already there, as was the symbolism, through the vision I had.


Here comes the interesting part.

A) Show your vision was anything more than a dream.

B) If the symbolism is already there, how come other people with visions do not see the same symbolism.

C) Show me any example of any usefullness of any vision beyond that of a dream.


And what about all the enviromental hazards we generate in the process, strictly because we live in a "material world" and everbody's got to have all these things?


In this case, the benifits have far outweighed any negatives. Not only that, science understands more about the weather, ecosystem, solar system, etc. In the future, we will be able to stop ice ages, divert asteroids, and other things I haven't currently thought of.

Anyway, man is perfectly capable of doing intense enviromental damage without any science, what do you think happened to the mammoths?


I think you've given "yourself" way too much credit here. ;)


Really, then tell me what great discoveries numerology has made?


While let me ask you this, do you have a lot of "faith" in what science has done with nuclear power?

Why, yes, I do. Nuclear power is becoming a clearer, and clearer alternative to things like strip mining coal, dumping greenhouse gas, burning trees, using slave labor, etc, etc. And beyond that, science is studying a different type of nuclear power that is even safer and cleaner than the modern reactors of today.


You seem to have a great distrust of science and medicene, but instead, attribute truth to your dreams (which really can be analyzed any way you want).

Why the distrust of science? Why is it such a boogy man to you?

[Acrimonious]

Why complicate things if it isn't necessary? Why hack to pieces the whole of creation, indeed to where it's longer recognizable, and then have the audacity to insist, "Where is God now?"
This is exactly what science tries NOT to do. Occham's Razor? Parsimony? Ever heard of them?Science gets complicated because it IS necessary.

So what? Give me the apples instead!
Again, my examples went over your head. The apples are simple because it is a simple interaction. Nuclear physics is complicated because it is a complex interaction. Dismissing it as unnecessary because you do not understand it is textbook Argument from Ignorance.

And why would I need it to explain something which is a complete waste of resources? There is nothing about it which is necessary here.
and
The point being that numerology may be useless for what otherwise might be deemed a useless endeavor? There are lots of people who don't agree with the "usefulness" of nuclear power by the way.
I think you have a gross misunderstanding of what a nuclear breeder reactor is, if you think it is a waste of resources. However, your ignorance of physics is not the topic of the thread. The fact that these statements are a straw man and a non-sequitor, is.

I have asked you to explain how numerology would explain a nuclear reaction that is occuring right this minute, simultaneously, at multiple different locations around the world. That is all. Not if you agreed with the use of Uranium as fuel, not if you agreed that nuclear power is a clean alternative to coal. Not if you agreed that nuclear power was "useful."

Only to show if your methods could explain how the process worked, more simply and efficiently than the complex math used by nuclear physicists.

Argue all you want about "usefulness," I don't care. The nuclear energy cycle exists, is explainable by science, is actually CURRENTLY HAPPENING, yet you cannot explain it.

Would it have helped if, instead, I broke down something "natural" and "useful" like the perpetual fusion reaction of the sun that sustains all life on the surface of the Earth? Or would you dodge with yet another logical fallacy?

The number was already there, as was the symbolism, through the vision I had.
This is, again, exactly my point. You started out with two numbers: A beginning and an end. It doesn't matter where the numbers came from, just that you had a preconceived notion that they were related (Hmmm it's the same number on both the badge in real life, and the badge in the "vision," I wonder how you could have possibly decided they were related?) You then stuck 4, 7, and 9 in simple geometric shapes, put the numbers counting to 10 around them (including 4 twice for no apparent or even explained reason), and called it "The Ten Commandments."

Then you made 479 = "Dennis" by arbitrarily dropping the 7, arbitrarily choosing greek, and arbitrarily assigning values to 4 and 9, to get... well, gibberish in greek, but it's no problem since you then arbitrarily flipfloped it back to English to get what you wanted.

The fact that you were successful shows you can do creative arithmetic. Congratulations. You've achieved roughly the same stellar insight as a 3rd grader playing with a calculator, who discovers that the number 35009 spells "GOOSE" when you turn the thing upside-down.

I don't know? If I had a vision about it, perhaps I could?
How does the "vision" count into it? The "vision" simply has your work badge on a string going to the top of a pyramid.

The numerology you perform is on the work badge NUMBER, not the vision. Here, I'll do the work for you:

Your number: 479
My number: 229

Next, you put a whole bunch of pictures together, do completely arbitrary math, then IGNORE THE RESULTS (so I'm just going to skip those steps), and focus on this:

By the way in Greek, the letter Delta is the 4th, and the word "Ennis" means the 9th. All of which corresponds to the name "Dennis" which, happens to be my first name
479: toss out the 7.
4 = Delta
9 = Ennis
Delta+Ennis = Dennis

The same, exact operations for my work badge number:

229: toss out the middle "2":
2 = Beta
9 = Ennis
Beta+Ennis = Bennis

Well, sir, my name is certainly not Bennis. Do you want me to see if Upchurch will drop by to verify?

On the other hand, the Sciences use math to explain how things work. If I know my mass, and my acceleration, I can tell you how much force is behind my movement. The equation works for anyone of any mass, of any force or acceleration. It works, and it works every single time.

Hurray!
Truly, Hurray! Science can do the same operations multiple times on different variables and get the correct answer. Numerology cannot. Hurray for Science, indeed!

And what about all the enviromental hazards we generate in the process, strictly because we live in a "material world" and everbody's got to have all these things?
Yet another logical flaw. I'm only showing science has created the things that allow you to live your comfortable, modern life, and pointing out that numerology cannot do the same thing.

You retort about environmental hazards. This is a Tautology. You didn't want to create anything with numerology anyway, right? It might hurt the environment? Yeah... that's the ticket... Numerology CAN, it's just that numerologists want to live solely on 14th century technology?

I think you've given "yourself" a little too much credit here.
Says the guy who trumpets loudly and repeatedly about his awesome, mind-blowing revelation that he can make 479 = "Dennis" and 1,2,3,4,4(woops),5,6,7,8,9 = "The Ten Commandments"

What is faith, if not a system of beliefs?

While let me ask you this, do you have a lot of "faith" in what science can do with nuclear power?
The fact that the Cordova, Illinois Nuclear Power Plant provides my area with energy, and every single day when I flip the light-switch on, the lights DO turn on, is not a matter of faith. It's reality.

I'll take nuclear-powered lightbulbs over faith-power lightbulbs any day of the week.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

When and where has "creation" been hacked to peices? Nothing has been hacked to pieces. Scientists are understanding the beauty of "creation". Nothing is being torn apart, nothing is being made unrecognizable (unless you can explain to me how). And scientists do not look up and ask "Where is god". People point, and go, "look, over there, its God", scientists look up and go "where?"We now have all this scientific jargon to replace that which used to be fundamentally human, for example the existence of a spirit or soul, to where we can't even spell out our existence except in terms of science which, is essentially external as opposed to internal ... And where do you think human values come from, well certainly not from the material world!

Yes, and when the scientists look up and go "where?" It's because they haven't begun to fathom the mysteries of the soul, and to know that the soul is like a mirror which, reflects God in everything that it sees.

Indeed it's pretty plain to a lot of people that science has overlooked something here.


That calculation is pretty simple compared to the ones that were worked out that make the operation of your computer possible. However, if you'd rather just have some apples than a computer...WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST BY SOME APPLES?Actually I don't care much for apples, and there may very well come a day when I trash my computer. The novelty began to wear off a long time ago.


Here comes the interesting part.

A) Show your vision was anything more than a dream.

B) If the symbolism is already there, how come other people with visions do not see the same symbolism.

C) Show me any example of any usefullness of any vision beyond that of a dream.Can something only be considered real if it's viewable under the microscope? The only thing that makes anything "real" in this life is the fact we have a soul which, when you get right down to it, is the only point of reference any of us has.


In this case, the benifits have far outweighed any negatives. Not only that, science understands more about the weather, ecosystem, solar system, etc. In the future, we will be able to stop ice ages, divert asteroids, and other things I haven't currently thought of.

Anyway, man is perfectly capable of doing intense enviromental damage without any science, what do you think happened to the mammoths?

Really, then tell me what great discoveries numerology has made?Actually I couldn't say, because the only form of numerology I'm familiar with -- if you want to call it such? -- is the numerology I've developed here.


Why, yes, I do. Nuclear power is becoming a clearer, and clearer alternative to things like strip mining coal, dumping greenhouse gas, burning trees, using slave labor, etc, etc. And beyond that, science is studying a different type of nuclear power that is even safer and cleaner than the modern reactors of today.Isn't that something?


You seem to have a great distrust of science and medicene, but instead, attribute truth to your dreams (which really can be analyzed any way you want).More of a problem with those who adminster it I think.


Why the distrust of science? Why is it such a boogy man to you? Yes, and what do we accomplish by all this (scientifically minded) knit-picking? Except perhaps to take away what otherwise may have been a perfectly valid experience. Yes, this is the problem I and many others "seem" to have.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
We now have all this scientific jargon to replace that which used to be fundamentally human, for example the existence of a spirit or soul, to where we can't even spell out our existence except in terms of science which, is essentially external as opposed to internal ...


As humans, we have NEVER been able to comprehend our existence. Science is bringing us closer to that goal then we have ever been. Just because you believe you have explained your existence with religion, doesn't mean you have. A lie is a lie, it is not the truth.

Do you think it was wrong for science to explain the process of volcanos and thus, "destroy" the notion that the volcano itself is a god?


And where do you think human values come from, well certainly not from the material world!


Human values come from us being human (so they come from the material world), otherwise, they wouldn't be human values. What reasoning do you have that shows that values do not come from the material world?


Yes, and when the scientists look up and go "where?" It's because they haven't begun to fathom the mysteries of the soul, and to know that the soul is like a mirror which, reflects God in everything that it sees.


If the soul has an effect on the material world, then that effect can the quantified and studied. I'm sure scientists would delight in studying such a thing. They look up and say "where?" because people claim evidence and effect, but there is none.


Indeed it's pretty plain to a lot of people that science has overlooked something here.


Really, well, why don't you remedy that then? Set up an experiment that others can repeat, write a paper, and get it published.

Discovering something that modern science has overlooked is the dream of any scientist.


Actually I don't care much for apples, and there may very well come a day when I trash my computer. The novelty began to wear off a long time ago.


How about the novelty of clean running water? Is that worn off yet? Or what about a bounty of food?


Can something only be considered real if it's viewable under the microscope?


No, a microscope is only one tool, in fact, many things are considered to be real even though we can only examine the things effects.

However, if someone tells me that something is real, I'm not going to just believe them, I want some answers, I want some evidence.


Did you know that the only thing that makes anything "real" in this life is the fact we have a soul which, when you get right down to it, is the only point of reference any of us has.


Thats you ASSUMPTION, so it's no good in an argument. None of us have a soul.


Also, you didn't address any one of the questions, so I'll ask them again:

A) Show your vision was anything more than a dream.

B) If the symbolism is already there, how come other people with visions do not see the same symbolism.

C) Show me any example of any usefullness of any vision beyond that of a dream.




Actually I couldn't say, because the only form of numerology I'm familiar with -- if you want to call it such? -- is the numerology I've developed here.


OK, then I'll fill you in, numerology has done nothing usefull, it has predicted no dates, no events, no lottery tickets, your numerology is equally as useless.


Isn't that something?


Given that I live near the largest nuclear reactor in the free world, one that probably ships power all the way to oregon, ya, it is something. We can see the direct effects of science, study, and understand them for ourselves. I have never seen *any* effects of spirituality.


More of a problem with those who adminster it I think.


Really, and what is their problem?


Yes, and what do we accomplish by all this (scientifically minded) knit-picking?


Quite a bit. I have many friends and family who are alive today because of this nit-picking. Heck, I think I'd be the only one left in my family. Look at the "magic" box in front of you, it exists because of this nit-picking.


Except perhaps to take away what otherwise may have been a perfectly valid experience.


How is an experience that is a lie, valid? Personally, I'll take truth over lie anyday.


Yes, this is the problem I and many others "seem" to have.

You have avoided the question:

Why the distrust of science? Why is it such a boogy man to you?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Acrimonious

This is exactly what science tries NOT to do. Occham's Razor? Parsimony? Ever heard of them?Science gets complicated because it IS necessary. I don't need science to have a vision of God or, interpret it for that matter.


Again, my examples went over your head. The apples are simple because it is a simple interaction. Nuclear physics is complicated because it is a complex interaction. Dismissing it as unnecessary because you do not understand it is textbook Argument from Ignorance.Yes, why do things have to be so complicated?


and

I think you have a gross misunderstanding of what a nuclear breeder reactor is, if you think it is a waste of resources. However, your ignorance of physics is not the topic of the thread. The fact that these statements are a straw man and a non-sequitor, is.I know enough about it to know that there are other "clean" alternatives.


I have asked you to explain how numerology would explain a nuclear reaction that is occuring right this minute, simultaneously, at multiple different locations around the world. That is all. Not if you agreed with the use of Uranium as fuel, not if you agreed that nuclear power is a clean alternative to coal. Not if you agreed that nuclear power was "useful."That would sort of like be asking science to explain the usefulness of God now wouldn't it?


Only to show if your methods could explain how the process worked, more simply and efficiently than the complex math used by nuclear physicists.So what?


Argue all you want about "usefulness," I don't care. The nuclear energy cycle exists, is explainable by science, is actually CURRENTLY HAPPENING, yet you cannot explain it..It doesn't make my bowel movements any smoother does it? Which, are smooth enough thanks!


Would it have helped if, instead, I broke down something "natural" and "useful" like the perpetual fusion reaction of the sun that sustains all life on the surface of the Earth? Or would you dodge with yet another logical fallacy?Who cares?


The fact that the Cordova, Illinois Nuclear Power Plant provides my area with energy, and every single day when I flip the light-switch on, the lights DO turn on, is not a matter of faith. It's reality.

I'll take nuclear-powered lightbulbs over faith-power lightbulbs any day of the week. Like I said, there are other alternatives. ;)

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
I don't need science to have a vision of God or, interpret it for that matter.


But how can you know the vision is from god, and not from your own mind?


Yes, why do things have to be so complicated?


They aren't, the rules that govern such a reaction are actually *very* simple. It's just when you have 238 electrons spinning around in a single atom alone, you end up doing a lot of calculation. Its like this, divide 4/24. Pretty easy, right? Now divide:

36753562912709360626187920237592289736129319478450 36106320615547656937452547443078688431492068926649 50487172722610615949091771159776736563948129390885 09638561159848103044447631759621785741859753883189 64333860488897764303092540594692247754/78739352050851550201864575394613798645040048205245 53328073930097175536938430685050382480775904832497 20004630403006850770629870296168380845095316293480 47265969022826926306452734760765411009133415009669 4276202995670183312447052083865302124

Did it get complicated for you? The rules are still simple though, but I've upped the digits to 238 per term.


I know enough about it to know that there are other "clean" alternatives.


Really, how about you name a cleaner alternative for producing 1.3 gigawatts of electricity.


That would sort of like be asking science to explain the usefulness of God now wouldn't it?

So what?

It doesn't make my bowel movements any smoother does it? Which, are smooth enough thanks!

Who cares?


A lot more avoiding from Iacchus...

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Acrimonious

This is, again, exactly my point. You started out with two numbers: A beginning and an end. It doesn't matter where the numbers came from, just that you had a preconceived notion that they were related (Hmmm it's the same number on both the badge in real life, and the badge in the "vision," I wonder how you could have possibly decided they were related?) You then stuck 4, 7, and 9 in simple geometric shapes, put the numbers counting to 10 around them (including 4 twice for no apparent or even explained reason), and called it "The Ten Commandments."Actually you might get more out of it if you go the chapter I reffered you to ... http://www.dionysus.org/x0801.html

Like I said it all began with the badge with the number 479, and the vision I had of it later.


Then you made 479 = "Dennis" by arbitrarily dropping the 7, arbitrarily choosing greek, and arbitrarily assigning values to 4 and 9, to get... well, gibberish in greek, but it's no problem since you then arbitrarily flipfloped it back to English to get what you wanted.Yes, the Greek letter "delta" means the 4th, just as the letter "d" in English is its counterpart. The name Dennis is Greek in origin anyway and comes from Dionysus. And by the way, did you know that the first two letters in Dionysus are "D" and "i" which, are the 4th and 9th letters? Just another coincidence? Hey I'm not saying it isn't. However, when these "little coincidences" continue to add up, doesn't it suggest the possibility of some sort of "phenomenology" which may lie behind it?


The fact that you were successful shows you can do creative arithmetic. Congratulations. You've achieved roughly the same stellar insight as a 3rd grader playing with a calculator, who discovers that the number 35009 spells "GOOSE" when you turn the thing upside-down.Oh, you mean when spelled backwards! ;)


How does the "vision" count into it? The "vision" simply has your work badge on a string going to the top of a pyramid.

The numerology you perform is on the work badge NUMBER, not the vision. Here, I'll do the work for you:

Your number: 479
My number: 229

Next, you put a whole bunch of pictures together, do completely arbitrary math, then IGNORE THE RESULTS (so I'm just going to skip those steps), and focus on this:


479: toss out the 7.
4 = Delta
9 = Ennis
Delta+Ennis = Dennis

The same, exact operations for my work badge number:

229: toss out the middle "2":
2 = Beta
9 = Ennis
Beta+Ennis = Bennis

Well, sir, my name is certainly not Bennis. Do you want me to see if Upchurch will drop by to verify?There's a little bit more to it than that -- obviously -- but nice try anyway. ;)



Truly, Hurray! Science can do the same operations multiple times on different variables and get the correct answer. Numerology cannot. Hurray for Science, indeed!Does science have the means by which to mesure quality, as opposed quantity? You see this is where numerology and the "rating system" comes in (and hence value).


Yet another logical flaw. I'm only showing science has created the things that allow you to live your comfortable, modern life, and pointing out that numerology cannot do the same thing.And what is life without meaning?


You retort about environmental hazards. This is a Tautology. You didn't want to create anything with numerology anyway, right? It might hurt the environment? Yeah... that's the ticket... Numerology CAN, it's just that numerologists want to live solely on 14th century technology?No, numerology can be a useful tool for those wishing to work with those things requiring the need to be introspective.


Says the guy who trumpets loudly and repeatedly about his awesome, mind-blowing revelation that he can make 479 = "Dennis" and 1,2,3,4,4(woops),5,6,7,8,9 = "The Ten Commandments"Oh, the befuddlement of the scientific brain anyway!

[Acrimonious]

Iacchus's basic argument:

I don't care that science consistently does a better job explaining the "Real World," and has consistently improved the quality of life for all mankind. I'd rather stick to a set of illogical beliefs based on simple numerology that explain as much as I want explained, in the simplest terms (regardless of them being completely arbitrary), that makes me happy and warm and fuzzy inside.

This makes you one of several things.

1) Lazy. You want to explain the Real World, but you just can't be bothered to actually learn what is necessary to do so. Instead, you just Make Crap Up that suits you.

2) Prejudiced. You want to explain the Real World, but you absolutely hate materialists / scientists / intelligent people. Instead of using what Science has already figured out for you, you just Make Crap Up that suits you.

3) Ignorant and Self-Centered. If you don't understand it or it's not your idea, it's not right, simply because you don't understand it and it's not your idea. You have Crap you Made Up that suits you better.

4) Hypocritical. You deny everything science has accomplished for you, or pass it off as trivial or unimportant, yet you continue to utilize these accomplishments for your own comfort because you are unable to provide alternatives using the Crap you Made Up. Similarly, even though the Crap you Made Up has only made arbitrary, pre-planned intangible, personal "connections," you revere it and advocate it over the tangible gains of Science that you enjoy.

Actually, looking at this list, I'd say you are a combination of all 4.

I'm done with this thread. You do not make discussion. You only advocate the Crap you Made Up and when faced with simple questions and simple examples, you dance around them with a laundry list of logical fallacy.

Until Numerology can explain something objective, worthwhile, and can do it consistently with the same operators, it is nothing more than subjective, made-up, crap.

-Acrimonious (Still Not Bennis)

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Acrimonious
Iacchus's basic argument:

I don't care that science consistently does a better job explaining the "Real World," and has consistently improved the quality of life for all mankind. I'd rather stick to a set of illogical beliefs based on simple numerology that explain as much as I want explained, in the simplest terms (regardless of them being completely arbitrary), that makes me happy and warm and fuzzy inside.Yes, but why ascribe a sense of permanence to that which is only temporary -- the "material world?" And how would you know it was real after you die? Or what would be the point? Or, how would you know the whole thing is not just an illusion while you're here?


This makes you one of several things.

1) Lazy. You want to explain the Real World, but you just can't be bothered to actually learn what is necessary to do so. Instead, you just Make Crap Up that suits you.

2) Prejudiced. You want to explain the Real World, but you absolutely hate materialists / scientists / intelligent people. Instead of using what Science has already figured out for you, you just Make Crap Up that suits you.

3) Ignorant and Self-Centered. If you don't understand it or it's not your idea, it's not right, simply because you don't understand it and it's not your idea. You have Crap you Made Up that suits you better.

4) Hypocritical. You deny everything science has accomplished for you, or pass it off as trivial or unimportant, yet you continue to utilize these accomplishments for your own comfort because you are unable to provide alternatives using the Crap you Made Up. Similarly, even though the Crap you Made Up has only made arbitrary, pre-planned intangible, personal "connections," you revere it and advocate it over the tangible gains of Science that you enjoy.

Actually, looking at this list, I'd say you are a combination of all 4.I notice you haven't left open the possibility that I may in fact be telling the truth?


I'm done with this thread. You do not make discussion. You only advocate the Crap you Made Up and when faced with simple questions and simple examples, you dance around them with a laundry list of logical fallacy.This is just your way of saying we're not in agreement then ... That's fine.


Until Numerology can explain something objective, worthwhile, and can do it consistently with the same operators, it is nothing more than subjective, made-up, crap.

-Acrimonious (Still Not Bennis) In which case you will probably never get it. ;)