A rose by any other name?

[Ladyhawk]

Don't know if this one has been bandied about before or not, but sure would like your input and advice.....

I am engaged to be married later this year. Married once before, when I was quite young, I took my husband's last name. That's how you did it then. Unfortunately, that marriage ended in divorce.

I've been single for 16 years since and am now faced with that most ludicrous of all decisions: should I take my husband's last name, keep my own, or hyphenate my maiden and married name.

My initial reaction to each option is:

Keep my name only : it would save a hell of a lot of paperwork and email announcements

Attach his name to my maiden name What if it doesn't all fit on my credit cards? Seriously, it might make life a little simpler in terms of recognition but I've always considered it a haughty act; that is, something that only wealthy people do...

Discard my maiden name and take his Simple enough; still a lot of paperwork.

Despite being pretty independent over these last 16 years, I tend to lean toward the last. Some have argued that taking the husband's last name is a tradition passed down from when women were treated like property. Well, hell, my maiden name is my FATHER's name, so that argument doesn't seem to hold much weight.

For the record, my fiance has absolutely NO preference on what I do and has deferred it completely to me. (Although I think it would make him happy if I incorporated his last name somewhere in there...)

Ladies Any advice, experience, insight on one approach or the other you'd care to share?

Gentlemen Same question. What are your thoughts on the matter? Do men have a preference?

I realize that this is pretty light fare, given the circumstances in the world today. I dunno. Maybe we all need a break once in awhile. But, rest assured, I'm really divided on this one and will certainly appreciate your observations....

Thanks!
:)

[69dodge]

I recently almost discarded as spam an email from my sister because I didn't immediately recognize her new last name. So there's one reason not to change your name. :)

It doesn't really matter much one way or the other, of course. You mention you're leaning toward changing it. Not changing it just because people think you shouldn't is about as silly as changing it just because people think you should, I'd say. Don't worry about it. Do whatever you like. If you change your mind later on, you can always legally change your name to anything you want, whevener you want to, right? (Although admittedly that makes the paperwork problem even bigger.)

[Tanja]

Hi Ladyhawk,

I got married (for the first time) couple of months ago. I intend to add my husband's name to my last name, but...I haven't strated the procedure yet.

We got married in the UK, where you sign the marriage register in your "old" name and they don't ask you at all whether you want to change your name or not.

As I am still a citizen of Croatia, I have to legalize the marriage there, so that I can change the name on my identity card first, and then on the passport. This involves a couple of days of queuing at various Kafkian bureaucratic institutitions, and I just cannot face it. It is still the remains of the old communist system that as many people as possible have to be employed as government clerks: one takes your application, the second one (one floor up) reads it, the third one (on the other side of the town) puts a stamp on it, the fourth one (back in the first place) asks you why you didn't get an additional paper from the second clerk, etc...

I decided I will only change my name when my current passport expires (in about three years).

Good luck and congratulations!

Tanja

[Deimos]

I think that both people in a marriage should have the same last name, the man's, the womans, a brand new one, it displays the fact that you're a family (with ot without kids).
I hate hypenated names, they annoy me to no end and consider them far from haughty... they seem like something people with no class at all do. I also wonder what two people who have hyphenated names from their parents would do when they're married, have a four name long surname?

[no one in particular]

Just to complicate the matter… there is another option to the hyphenated name craze that annoys me so much. That is you may drop whatever middle name that you have, take you current last name as your middle name and add your husband’s name as you last name. For example:

If “Lady Alexandria Hawk” is married to “Jim Bo Bob” she may decide to become “Lady Hawk Bob,” three names with no hyphen.

This option is especially good for folks that for whatever reason want to keep their name recognition (publishing papers, and such) but enjoy the tradition of taking their husband’s name and also hate the hyphenating option.

[TruthSeeker]

Well, this will probably be very unpopular but I would never take my husband's name (I've never been married).

I feel that abandoning my own surname is a dishonour to my family of origin. It seems to say "whew, I'm done with being one of you. Now, my real life begins as Mrs. XXX" Nope. Not for me.

Also, professional reasons make it impossible but that's just the practical out.

As for children, I would be amenable to them having my last name as a middle name.

[bug_girl]

no, i didn't take another name. this was for several reasons:
--i publish under my "maiden" name
--i worried about my SO's ability to manage money and i wanted to keep an independent credit record
--i didn't want to deal with the paperwork.

all of these turned out to be good things in the long run :(

in some traditional scandinavian families, the last name changes at each generation. confusing as heck---but this does point out that naming is a convention, and culturally dependent. And this group is all about following cultural norms, right? :)

[Ladyhawk]

I knew I could rely on this forum for some unbiased insight!

Hope I continue to get some more responses. ..am especially hoping to get some observations from the gents and how they feel about this matter....

Sincere thanks to all who have responded!

[Jeff Corey]

Both my wife and daughter chose to use the hyphenated option.

[El Greco]

Who cares... I mean, whatever is going to make life easier for the couple. If some parents would be happy to see their name preserved and they are good people, why not do them a favor... Otherwise I don't care even if she changes her name to Sylvia Browne... no, wait, I wouldn't want that :D

[geni]

There is the option of keeping you maiden name for professional perposes and changing you name for none professional uses.

[Monketey Ghost]

When I married my wife, we both agreed that her first name sounded much better with her maiden name than my surname.

So there it is.

Case by case is what I say.

[Desdemona]

I will get married in February and I have discussed it with my fiancée who wants me to take his name. I have started a career and it is not easy to change my name. We have decided that I will keep my family name in my professional environment and in my social life I will introduce myself with my husband's name. I thought to print two series of business cards, one with my maiden name and one with my husband's name but it is illegal to use a name if you don't have it officially.

Catherine.

[Cleopatra]

Desdemona you must change your lawyer :)

It's not illegal to use a different name than your official one in a business card as long as it is not escorted by your profession.

You cannot print in a BC " Cleopatra the Sweet--Lawyer" if your name is " Cleopatra the fierce".

I took my husband's name--according to the Greek legislation I had to keep mine too- and I haven't changed it yet. I think that it's good for families to have one name. It shows a unity and you will go to toast me about what I will say but Ithink that it's essential for a woman to take her husband's name if she is having a career of her own. I have met very few men that can live with a woman that is more succesful that them. If she is havind their name it makes things easier to absorb. Sorry for sounding so conservative but this is what I think.For me the important is family's happiness what ever sacrifice one must make in order to have it.

[Desdemona]

You are very expensive for me. :D I am sorry I read it in a newspaper I didn't ask a lawyer.

I disagree with Cleopatra the theory of the sacrifice comes from religious beliefs. Taking your husband's name is not a sacrifice.You don't make any sacrifice when you love somebody.The husband of the mayor of Athens looks to me very happy with the success of his wife :)

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Desdemona
The husband of the mayor of Athens looks to me very happy with the success of his wife :)

One can read and read and read and then in one simple sentence you suddenly get to understand a lot of things about the other person. How enlightening! :D

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I think that it's good for families to have one name. It shows a unity and you will go to toast me about what I will say but Ithink that it's essential for a woman to take her husband's name if she is having a career of her own. I have met very few men that can live with a woman that is more succesful that them. If she is havind their name it makes things easier to absorb. Sorry for sounding so conservative but this is what I think.For me the important is family's happiness what ever sacrifice one must make in order to have it.


If the appearance (and that's all it is, of course) of unity is so important to my future-husband, he is welcome to adopt my surname.

As for the gender difference in success...well...any man who is unable to cope with a successful wife does not deserve one. I hate the idea that women must make themselves LESS in order to get or keep a man. YUCK!

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker



If the appearance (and that's all it is, of course) of unity is so important to my future-husband, he is welcome to adopt my surname.

As for the gender difference in success...well...any man who is unable to cope with a successful wife does not deserve one. I hate the idea that women must make themselves LESS in order to get or keep a man. YUCK!

In the society I live if a man takes a woman's name appears like an idiot and I wouldn't want my husband to appear like an idiot.I haven't stayed married long but to my understanding every day life is very cruel and it brings on the surface the dark side of intimacy why make things worse?

My motto is that I believe in my abilities so much that I can make any name famous ;)

The husband of the Mayor of Athens is a very very succesfull businessman and as I have read in an interview of hers , he is taller than her too :D ( The Mayor of Athens is a very tall woman, a daughter of an ex Prime Minister and the widow of a famous journalist that became MP and he was murdered by terrorists.She can't be more famous :) She uses the name of her late husband and none really knew her present husband who seems ok with the fact that his wife carries the name of an ex-spouse--I guess that she is the exception that justifies the rule but we are talking about common people here anyway)

[El Greco]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
If the appearance (and that's all it is, of course) of unity is so important to my future-husband, he is welcome to adopt my surname.

Hmmm... Michael Pfeiffer... Michel Marceau... Michele Bellucci...

Looks OK to me!

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


In the society I live if a man takes a woman's name appears like an idiot and I wouldn't want my husband to appear like an idiot.


But it is exactly this double standard that I am addressing. Why is it ok for a woman to "appear like an idiot" or subjugate herself to her husband but not the other way around?

Our reaction to the reverse scenario (husband takes on wife's name) reveals a great deal about what it means to us on some level when a wife takes on her husband's name even if we find that behaviour acceptable.

Giving the children the husband's last name clearly demonstrates who has dominance in the marriage. That should be enough for him.

Ugh...it is issues like this that make me never want to marry.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker

But it is exactly this double standard that I am addressing. Why is it ok for a woman to "appear like an idiot" or subjugate herself to her husband but not the other way around?

Did you see what the Greek above says? :D

Seriously now. I don't think that we can have a reversed scenario because societies do not consider women that take their husband's name idiots.

Giving the children the husband's last name clearly demonstrates who has dominance in the marriage. That should be enough for him.

According to the legislation though the couple has the option to choose which name children willl have.They can have both parents' names. Why do you take for granted that children must have their father's name.

My mother is the last in her family who carries a name that is in use since the 12th ce. The name started its journey in Spain in 12th ce only to be lost in Athens sometime during the 21th ce.

I have promised to myself that if my father dies earlier than me I will add to his name my mother's name. Of course it will be useless because even if I ever have a son I won't be able to give him my name but who knows I might give him both names.

Ugh...it is issues like this that make me never want to marry.

I wish marriage was about those issues only.

[El Greco]

I have a novel idea that will change forever the way people think about this issue!

BOTH spouses will have to change their name! The new name will not be hyphenated, but it will be formed by combining their previous surnames! So, if Ms Spears gets married to Mr Di Caprio, their name could be Capriospears. If Mr Bush marries Ms Allbright, their new name would be Bushright. If Cleopatra marries Desdemona they will be called Cleomona!

Voila!

[Ladyhawk]

El Greco;

You know. You may actually have something there.... I kinda like the idea....

[geni]

Originally posted by El Greco
I have a novel idea that will change forever the way people think about this issue!

BOTH spouses will have to change their name! The new name will not be hyphenated, but it will be formed by combining their previous surnames! So, if Ms Spears gets married to Mr Di Caprio, their name could be Capriospears. If Mr Bush marries Ms Allbright, their new name would be Bushright. If Cleopatra marries Desdemona they will be called Cleomona!

Voila!

No no you risk names getteing longer and longer by that route. They should have to be combined by a strickly inforced method thus you examples become:

Saersi
Baubht
Ceedpmtna

Who got the first letter would be luck of the draw

[Chaos]

Originally posted by geni


No no you risk names getteing longer and longer by that route. They should have to be combined by a strickly inforced method thus you examples become:

Saersi
Baubht
Ceedpmtna

Who got the first letter would be luck of the draw

Or we take the Icelandic method - no family name, but the father´s first name with an "-son" or "-dottir" fixed to it.

As in "Kitten Poolboysdottir", for example. Or "Zeplette Zepsdottir". Etc...

[69dodge]

TruthSeeker: Well, this will probably be very unpopular but I would never take my husband's name.I see, I see . . .

I'm beginning to get the picture here . . .

We already know you won't convert for your husband. Now we find out you won't change your name either . . .

What is it with all these uppity women nowadays? What is the world coming to, anyway?Ladyhawk: am especially hoping to get some observations from the gents and how they feel about this matterOk, seriously, I'd say there's one particular gent whose feelings on the matter are much more important than any others'. And one particular lady whose feelings are even more important than that.

But that's just my feeling, I guess.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by 69dodge
I see, I see . . .

I'm beginning to get the picture here . . .

We already know you won't convert for your husband. Now we find out you won't change your name either . . .

What is it with all these uppity women nowadays? What is the world coming to, anyway?


I guess you are right about me. I'm not very flexible in some ways. I know that my breakup is on me for being stubborn. I will probably end up paying for my stubborness with perpetual spinsterhood.

Oh well, Frank Sinatra and Paul Anka would be proud (to paraphrase):

For what is a (wo)man, what has (s)he got?
If not (her)self, then (s)he has naught.
To say the things (s)he truly feels;
And not the words of one who kneels.
The record shows I took the blows -
And did it my way!

[69dodge]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
I know that my breakup is on me for being stubborn.Oh, my! I didn't mean that at all.

I thought it would be clear I was kidding.

Sorry about that.

It's a shame there are enough people who really feel that way that you thought I might be serious. But there are plenty of people who don't feel that way, too. Marry one of those.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by 69dodge
Oh, my! I didn't mean that at all.

I thought it would be clear I was kidding.

Sorry about that.

It's a shame there are enough people who really feel that way that you thought I might be serious. But there are plenty of people who don't feel that way, too. Marry one of those.

Sorry, I'm just overly sensitive.

Anyway, this thread isn't about me....please return to the topic at hand.

[Mercutio]

I have friends and acquaintances who have addressed this many different ways. Mrs. Mercutio took my last name. Friends have kept separate last names; in one case, their children have hyphenated last names, in another case the first child has one last name, the second has the other. Another acquaintance (the one I spoke of in another thread who ate her placenta) has a new name, a combination of the two former names. Another who keeps two names--one personal, one professional.

One, I don't remember what her decision was, but she told me that she was asking the same question you are, and one woman asked her "are you taking your husband's name, or keeping your father's?" She said that put it in a different perspective for her--rather than independence, keeping her own last name was supporting a patriarchal tradition (she found this offensive). I think (but do not know) that she chose to take her husband's name, as a name she chose, rather than was saddled with.

[tedly]

This is too complicated to vote on, but...

Chaos' point about the Scandinavians is almost on but I think the names go "Girl Momsdottir" and "Boy Dadson" . I have been told that in Iceland the phone book is indexed by first name.

She and I have our birth last names, and the kids have mine. This makes things complicated at school and when registering for sports events, for e.g. because people look for a Mrs. Tedly and don't find anyone with that name.

Mind you, as I unterstand the protocol a married woman is Mrs. John Tedly and a widow is Mrs. Alison Tedly. And the Mrs. Yada Yada is an honorific, and not necessarily a legal name. So you could be Lady Hawk and Mrs Some other guy as the mood fits. Law probably varies on this. I was around in Manitoba when they brought in a change to the law that 'allowed' a woman to keep her maiden name, and brought in simple rules to change your name, and made those rules the only way you could change your name. Then one of my lawyer friends told me that until then common law had it that you were who you said you were unless there was an intent to defraud.

Since Mrs Tedly was publishing under her own name some things were simplified by keeping her name. But, if you go for a mortgage, keep your marriage license handy.

Oh, and to keep their lives simple, never, never, never call your children by their middle name. I never minded it as a child in the '50s but now that our lives are ruled by computer read forms there is no way I can deal with Last name, First name, Middle initial.

[scarlet_35]

my sister in law kept her fathers last name, we didn't know this until my mom had to call her at work one time and asked for her by the wrong name, no one knew who my mom was talking about. Apparently she didn't feel the need to tell co-workers or family members about having a different last name then her husband? Very odd. And as far I know the kids have my brothers last name but who knows, maybe the first one got his last name, the second one got hers and so forth and so on.

when I got married I never even thought about keeping my current last name, but then my last name was that of my ex, I kept it because my kids have the same last name, but I was more than ready to be rid of it by the time I got married the second time. Now if anyone calls me by my first husbands last name, it drives me up a wall lol

when you have kids, having different names is confusing, maybe not soo much to you but to everyone else. Teachers never know what to call me and then even when they know they forget sometimes.

In fact, my mother-in-law (ex) still uses the same last name as her first husband and she's been married 3 times since. I guess she does it because her kids have that name and because it makes it easier for everyone else involved, imagine trying to keep up with her last names if she kept changing them lol

[rachaella]

When (and if) my boyfriend and I get married, we've already discussed this, he's taking my last name.

[Ladyhawk]

Well, so far the poll results seem to indicate that hyphenating isn't the most popular approach. I'm actually surprised at how many lean toward keeping the maiden name without making any changes as opposed to the hyphenation option. Personally, I'm glad since I wasn't too crazy about the hypen option, either.

Very good points of view here. My fiance and I do not have children. Fortunately, that eliminates a few of the concerns that we might have faced otherwise.

Gonna allow a few more days for responses and THEN....I will let you all know the Final Decision.

Thanks again!

[Nyarlathotep]

When Chani and I got our marriage license there was a part of it that referred to her as "Mrs (my first name) (my last name)" and she got into it with the clerk about that because she feels very strong about the whole "It's a tradition from when women were their husbands property" thing. Over all I don't mind that she decided to keep her own name because it IS just a name, I know her feelings for me and the fact that she decided to keep her own name doesn't change that feeling. Over all, I think it's a matter of personal preference, if the couple wants to keep their own names, that's fine. If the woman wants to take the man's name (or vice versa for that matter) that's OK too.

[Schizobunny]

I think the woman should do whatever she wants, but I think the practice of a woman always taking the man's last name is a sexist outdated tradition that has no place in modern day society.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Schizobunny
I think the woman should do whatever she wants, but I think the practice of a woman always taking the man's last name is a sexist outdated tradition that has no place in modern day society.

Schizobunny

You are powerful and intelligent like your mother :)
I have a question for you though since you belong to a younger generation and I am interested in the way you see things. What do you think about the women who want to take their husband's name?

[Dragonrock]

I told my wife that she did not have to take my name, but I was honored when she chose to.

It's up to the couple, but I can't stand hyphenated names. It's like the cowards way out.

They try to please everyone:
the feminists -- She kept her name
the traditionists -- She took her husbands name
the modernists -- She did something different

Do whatever you want to do, heck, you can even hyphenate, I won't complain too much.

[Schizobunny]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


Schizobunny

You are powerful and intelligent like your mother :)
I have a question for you though since you belong to a younger generation and I am interested in the way you see things. What do you think about the women who want to take their husband's name?

I don't really think anything of them. It is their choice and I have no right to judge them. All I know is if I ever get married than I will never in a million years change my last name and if the person I am planning to marry has a problem with that then I don't think he is the person for me.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by Schizobunny


I don't really think anything of them. It is their choice and I have no right to judge them. All I know is if I ever get married than I will never in a million years change my last name and if the person I am planning to marry has a problem with that then I don't think he is the person for me.

C'mon, you don't want to be stuck with such an overly bad name forever, do you? Hmmm? :D

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


Schizobunny

You are powerful and intelligent like your mother :)
I have a question for you though since you belong to a younger generation and I am interested in the way you see things. What do you think about the women who want to take their husband's name?

Geez, it is obvious she is my daughter, isn't it? I could have uttered the same sentence. :D

[Schizobunny]

Originally posted by Chanileslie


C'mon, you don't want to be stuck with such an overly bad name forever, do you? Hmmm? :D

Ha ha ha. Very funny.

[Frankie]

I changed to my husbands name when we were married. Then if, I had kept my own name and added it to his. A double-double barrelled name would have been too much of a good thing.
A name like below for example would be one big mouthful to pronounce at social gatherings.

"Mrs. Frankie D N R Smthyefields-Challis-Meruccoia-Capone."


It is all down to personal choice in the end. Keep your own name, merge it with your husbands, or take on your husbands exclusively. You have to live with that final name choice nobody else.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Schizobunny
I think the woman should do whatever she wants, but I think the practice of a woman always taking the man's last name is a sexist outdated tradition that has no place in modern day society.

Interesting.

When my wife and I were first engaged, I told her straight on that I would not marry her unless she took my last name. She wanted to keep her maiden name. I said that's fine, we can continue to date, but if you want to marry me, you take my last name, period. She did and has never suffered any embarrassment or lack of empowerment from doing so.

Your mileage may vary.

[69dodge]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
I said that's fine, we can continue to date, but if you want to marry me, you take my last name, period.Why did you care about it that much?

(I suppose one could ask the same question to women who insist on keeping their maiden name. But somehow, that makes more sense to me. It's her name, after all; shouldn't she be the one to decide what it will be?

Of course, you didn't have to marry her if you didn't want to. But I still don't get it.)

[jj]

Keep your own!

My spouse was split on the issue, so I told her she couldn't have mine :)

It very occasionally causes problems, people seem to sometimes assume that mixed-race couples with different last names just COULD NOT BE MARRIED. The idea never occurs to them.

But there are some in any crowd.

[jj]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
As for the gender difference in success...well...any man who is unable to cope with a successful wife does not deserve one.

And any man who does not want a successful wife is too dumb to get married to anyone!

[jj]

Originally posted by El Greco
I have a novel idea that will change forever the way people think about this issue!

BOTH spouses will have to change their name! The new name will not be hyphenated, but it will be formed by combining their previous surnames! So, if Ms Spears gets married to Mr Di Caprio, their name could be Capriospears. If Mr Bush marries Ms Allbright, their new name would be Bushright. If Cleopatra marries Desdemona they will be called Cleomona!

Voila!

So, if Shop Rite marries A&P they'd be Stop & P?

Are you sure? :)

[Schizobunny]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


Interesting.

When my wife and I were first engaged, I told her straight on that I would not marry her unless she took my last name. She wanted to keep her maiden name. I said that's fine, we can continue to date, but if you want to marry me, you take my last name, period. She did and has never suffered any embarrassment or lack of empowerment from doing so.

Your mileage may vary.

So you refused to marry the woman you supposedly love because she is an individual and has her own opinions, thoughts, and life. How munipulative. How rude. Because of the statement, I can't figure out why she even married you.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal



When my wife and I were first engaged, I told her straight on that I would not marry her unless she took my last name. She wanted to keep her maiden name. I said that's fine, we can continue to date, but if you want to marry me, you take my last name, period.

Pepto, thanks for responding. I am really very interested to know why you felt the way you did. Would you care to elaborate a bit? Thanks!

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk


Pepto, thanks for responding. I am really very interested to know why you felt the way you did. Would you care to elaborate a bit? Thanks!

It has to do with marriage. What is the point of getting married and planning a family if dad has last name y and mom has last name x-y? What do the kids do, choose which name they like better? Call themselves x-y-z? It just seems to me to provide a solidarity in the family to all have one name.

I don't remember if I covered this, but my wife changed her middle name to her former last name, which was fine with me.

You might get the impression that I didn't really love her. To me, if you do something that is totally against your character and beliefs just because you are so desparate to be with this person, that is not love. I did say that I would be content to continue dating if she did not want to change her last name.

Love is a give and take situation. I acquiesce on many things that she feels strongly about. There is simply a limit on how far I will go, when I feel strongly about something.

For instance, I wanted a standard church wedding, but she is part Native American and wanted a traditional NA wedding. I have to admit that it was one of the most beautiful and meaningful ceremonies I've ever seen.

In retrospect, maybe it wasn't really all that important for her to keep her last name, but she respected my wishes and I think I have greater respect for her wishes as a result of it. Sometimes when you give, you get something in return. Maybe some of it was a childish wish for her to prove her love to me by changing her name to mine, but it is probably just because I'm kind of "old school" and was uncomfortable with marrying a woman who wouldn’t take my last name.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


It has to do with marriage. What is the point of getting married and planning a family if dad has last name y and mom has last name x-y? What do the kids do, choose which name they like better? Call themselves x-y-z? It just seems to me to provide a solidarity in the family to all have one name.

I don't remember if I covered this, but my wife changed her middle name to her former last name, which was fine with me.

You might get the impression that I didn't really love her. To me, if you do something that is totally against your character and beliefs just because you are so desparate to be with this person, that is not love. I did say that I would be content to continue dating if she did not want to change her last name.

Love is a give and take situation. I acquiesce on many things that she feels strongly about. There is simply a limit on how far I will go, when I feel strongly about something.

For instance, I wanted a standard church wedding, but she is part Native American and wanted a traditional NA wedding. I have to admit that it was one of the most beautiful and meaningful ceremonies I've ever seen.

In retrospect, maybe it wasn't really all that important for her to keep her last name, but she respected my wishes and I think I have greater respect for her wishes as a result of it. Sometimes when you give, you get something in return. Maybe some of it was a childish wish for her to prove her love to me by changing her name to mine, but it is probably just because I'm kind of "old school" and was uncomfortable with marrying a woman who wouldn’t take my last name.

Being as she learned it at my knee, I will have to agree 100% with what Schizobunny said.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Chanileslie


Being as she learned it at my knee, I will have to agree 100% with what Schizobunny said.

You're teaching her that if she and her significant other disagree on something and he doesn't do it her way, then he doesn't love her? And, oh yeah, he's the manipulative one.

I always had my suspicions that this sort of thing was passed on from generation to generation.

And the young girls eat their mother's meat from tubes of plasticon
Be wary of these my gentle friends of all the skins you breed
They have a tasty habit - they eat the hands that bleed

From:
"Memo To Turner"
By The Rolling Stones

[Charles Livingston]

Originally posted by Schizobunny


So you refused to marry the woman you supposedly love because she is an individual and has her own opinions, thoughts, and life. How munipulative. How rude. Because of the statement, I can't figure out why she even married you.

NO, he refused to marry the woman who wouldnt take his last name. Whether she has her own opinions, thoughts, and life, etc. may or may not have had anything to do with why he wanted her to take his last name.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by Charles Livingston


NO, he refused to marry the woman who wouldnt take his last name. Whether she has her own opinions, thoughts, and life, etc. may or may not have had anything to do with why he wanted her to take his last name.

We will have to disagree on this point. The whole insisting that the woman take his last name is very controlling, and inconsiderate of her wishes.

[Schizobunny]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


It has to do with marriage. What is the point of getting married and planning a family if dad has last name y and mom has last name x-y? What do the kids do, choose which name they like better? Call themselves x-y-z? It just seems to me to provide a solidarity in the family to all have one name.

I don't remember if I covered this, but my wife changed her middle name to her former last name, which was fine with me.

You might get the impression that I didn't really love her. To me, if you do something that is totally against your character and beliefs just because you are so desparate to be with this person, that is not love. I did say that I would be content to continue dating if she did not want to change her last name.

Love is a give and take situation. I acquiesce on many things that she feels strongly about. There is simply a limit on how far I will go, when I feel strongly about something.

For instance, I wanted a standard church wedding, but she is part Native American and wanted a traditional NA wedding. I have to admit that it was one of the most beautiful and meaningful ceremonies I've ever seen.

In retrospect, maybe it wasn't really all that important for her to keep her last name, but she respected my wishes and I think I have greater respect for her wishes as a result of it. Sometimes when you give, you get something in return. Maybe some of it was a childish wish for her to prove her love to me by changing her name to mine, but it is probably just because I'm kind of "old school" and was uncomfortable with marrying a woman who wouldn’t take my last name.

Well if you wanted to have the same last names, but your wife didn't want to change her last name than why didn't you change your last name. It just sounds like common sense to me.

[Schizobunny]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


You're teaching her that if she and her significant other disagree on something and he doesn't do it her way, then he doesn't love her? And, oh yeah, he's the manipulative one.

I always had my suspicions that this sort of thing was passed on from generation to generation.



No. She's teaching me to live my own life and not let anyone control me. She is teaching me that life is a two way street and and that the man in a relationship should have to go through the same good and bad things as the woman. She's teaching me to only respect people who respect me. You took what she said and totally twisted it around.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


You're teaching her that if she and her significant other disagree on something and he doesn't do it her way, then he doesn't love her? And, oh yeah, he's the manipulative one.

I always had my suspicions that this sort of thing was passed on from generation to generation.



No, I am teaching my child - all my children in fact - not to resort to emotional blackmail to get their way. I am teaching my children that compromise is a two way street, and that it means that both parties must make a change or agree to disagree. I am teaching my children that they don't have to subvert who they are to be in a relationship.

Of course, you twisted that well. You insist on using controlling and nasty behavior to get your prospective wife to wed you under your terms only and I am the one teaching my child to be unmovable. Yeah, right.

[Michael Redman]

Originally posted by Schizobunny
I think the woman should do whatever she wants, but I think the practice of a woman always taking the man's last name is a sexist outdated tradition that has no place in modern day society. If this is going to be a marriage, she should do what the two of them agree she should do. If you can't agree on this, you're off to a bad start.

My wife didn't change her name, and quite a few other couples in our peer group have different last names. Most, in fact. I see no problem with having different last names, although I know few different-named parents (and some of those have made poor choices in naming their kids).

I would suggest if you plan to have kids, you decide what you are going to name your children before you consider the matter settled. And hyphenated names are obnoxious. Pick one of the two, or make something up if you need the same last name. Don't give children hyphenated last names! You're taking the easy way out, and making your kids suffer through what you should have done before they can suffer through their own choices. (sounds like Bush's economic plan)

While there may be rational reasons to have the same last name (which I obviously don't find compelling) I can see no ration reason that the man's name should be it.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by Michael Redman
If this is going to be a marriage, she should do what the two of them agree she should do. If you can't agree on this, you're off to a bad start.

...snip...


Both partners should do what they agree upon, and both partners should consider changing their name if they want the same last name. If both partners are not in accord on this, then it shouldn't be an issue for either partner.

[Hand Bent Spoon]

Can a woman who marries claim to be independant? Of course not.

Feel free to keep your current last name, but remember also to either refuse a diamond engagement ring or buy an equal one for your husband-to-be. Women tend to be feminists when it comes to the name change, and then traditionalists when it comes to getting that pretty rock. Hypocritical? You bet.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Chanileslie

No, I am teaching my child - all my children in fact - not to resort to emotional blackmail to get their way. I am teaching my children that compromise is a two way street, and that it means that both parties must make a change or agree to disagree. I am teaching my children that they don't have to subvert who they are to be in a relationship.

Of course, you twisted that well. You insist on using controlling and nasty behavior to get your prospective wife to wed you under your terms only and I am the one teaching my child to be unmovable. Yeah, right.

Controlling and nasty behavior? Nice fabrication of what did not happen.

We discussed all sorts of things we wanted or did not want in the relationship before we got married. I have to say that when the final score was tallied, the game came out at about Bride 10 : Groom 2. I also got the Honeymoon cruise to Puerta Vallarta, instead of what she wanted; Alaska. My knuckles still hurt from beating her into that decision :p

[Cleopatra]

Come on guys Peptoabysmal is a characteristic case of a very nice man and I suspect very tolerant too. He does nothing but talking about his wife and her family and praising her. He just wanted that.I bet that his wife is dragging him by the nose and he is happy about it. :)

Women don't have their names, they have their dad's or their mom's ( very rare but it exists) name. None has its own name.

In the Greek language the names are conjugated. The surname of a woman is in Genitive that declares property, to be exact the genitive shows to whom the subject belongs. My surname says that I am the daughter of X. Then I became the wife of my husband which was nice because I loved him very much. The greatest pleasure Scizobunny was a year ago when my dad called me laughing to say that he went to a bank that he was a client for year and a new employee asked him if he is a relative of Mrs.X the lawyer.He didn't say :" Is X your daughter?" but he said" Are you the father of X?". My father who is the personification of traditionalism( he didn't let my mom to work ) felt proud,the essence was elsewhere not in the name. ;)

I am generalizing here but from my experience men that are rather traditionalists in some things , take good care of their spouses and they are devoted to their marriage. Devotion is the key for a marriage to succeed and to be a factor of personal success for both parts and not an imprisonment.

All I am trying to say is that this unwashed British poet was very right to wonder : " What's in a name". Nothing! There is nothing in a name.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


Controlling and nasty behavior? Nice fabrication of what did not happen.

A threat of: Take my last name or I won't marry you, well, okay, is not nasty, it is petulant and controlling.

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
We discussed all sorts of things we wanted or did not want in the relationship before we got married. I have to say that when the final score was tallied, the game came out at about Bride 10 : Groom 2. I also got the Honeymoon cruise to Puerta Vallarta, instead of what she wanted; Alaska. My knuckles still hurt from beating her into that decision :p

Uhuh. Sure.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Chanileslie


A threat of: Take my last name or I won't marry you, well, okay, is not nasty, it is petulant and controlling.



Uhuh. Sure.

Oh, now it's a threat, I threatened her. I told her straight what I would and would not do, how is that a threat?

Are there any moral / ethical / etc. reasons you would not marry a man after he proposed?

What do you think I should have done, kept my mouth shut about something that I have a deep conviction about, then spent the rest of our marriage trying to change her feelings about it?

The "Uhuh sure" part of your message seems to indicate that the chip on your shoulder has gotten large enough to cause you to lean to starboard.

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Come on guys Peptoabysmal is a characteristic case of a very nice man and I suspect very tolerant too. He does nothing but talking about his wife and her family and praising her. He just wanted that.I bet that his wife is dragging him by the nose and he is happy about it. :)

Women don't have their names, they have their dad's or their mom's ( very rare but it exists) name. None has its own name.

In the Greek language the names are conjugated. The surname of a woman is in Genitive that declares property, to be exact the genitive shows to whom the subject belongs. My surname says that I am the daughter of X. Then I became the wife of my husband which was nice because I loved him very much. The greatest pleasure Scizobunny was a year ago when my dad called me laughing to say that he went to a bank that he was a client for year and a new employee asked him if he is a relative of Mrs.X the lawyer.He didn't say :" Is X your daughter?" but he said" Are you the father of X?". My father who is the personification of traditionalism( he didn't let my mom to work ) felt proud,the essence was elsewhere not in the name. ;)

I am generalizing here but from my experience men that are rather traditionalists in some things , take good care of their spouses and they are devoted to their marriage. Devotion is the key for a marriage to succeed and to be a factor of personal success for both parts and not an imprisonment.

All I am trying to say is that this unwashed British poet was very right to wonder : " What's in a name". Nothing! There is nothing in a name.

You figured it out. My nose was a bit shorter a few years back. And yes, it had to do with tradition and looking at the experiences of other people. The people I have come in contact with who are married and the woman kept her maiden name just seemed, I don't know, kind of detached from each other.

It is my prejudice, but I get the distict impression that the woman wasn't too happy about her choice of man and didn't want his name. Especially so in the case of the hyphenated name. Purely unscientific and anecdotal, but nontheless a strong conviction of mine. A prejudice, if you prefer..

[Ladyhawk]

I appreciate everyone's honest replies here....certainly didn't mean to start a brawl :(

Pepto and Hand Bent have valid points. I asked for how people really feel on this issue and they've given their honest opinion. My guess is that many men feel the same way but are afraid to say so for fear of not being 'politically correct' or chauvinistic.

I don't believe a woman's decision to keep her maiden name or hyphenate hers with his is any indicator of her devotion or loyalty toward him. It's just a different world we live in now with more women in the workfoce than ever before. There are more options. Remember, gentlemen, it wasn't that long ago that women didn't have the option of "Ms." before their name. There used to be plenty of other little inequities as well....fortunately, most of those have been dispersed with.

As for me, I've paid close attention to every one's point of view here and I appreciate the different perspectives; they've been quite helpful!
So....I have decided to take my future husband's last name as my own. I'm comfortable with this decision, perhaps moreso now, based on everyone's contribution.

I sincerely thank you all for participating in this little survey!

Peace.

Edited to correct type

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
I appreciate everyone's honest replies here....certainly didn't mean to start a brawl :(

Pepto and Hand Bent have valid points. I asked for how people really feel on this issue and they've given their honest opinion. My guess is that many men feel the same way but are afraid to say so for fear of not being 'politically correct' or chauvinistic.

I don't believe a woman's decision to keep her maiden name or hyphenate hers with his is any indicator of her devotion or loyalty toward him. It's just a different world we live in now with more women in the workfoce than ever before. There are more options. Remember, gentlemen, it wasn't that long ago that women didn't have the option of "Ms." before their name. There used to be plenty of other little inequities as well....fortunately, most of those have been dispersed with.

As for me, I've paid close attention to every one's point of view here and I appreciate the different perspectives; they've been quite helpful!
So....I have decided to take my future husband's last name as my own. I'm comfortable with this decision, perhaps moreso now, based on everyone's contribution.

I sincerely thank you all for participating in this little survey!

Peace.

Edited to correct type

LOL. No brawl here. We just agreed to disagree :D

Congratulations and best of luck to you. He's a lucky man.

[69dodge]

Originally posted by Ladyhawk
Peace.Peace?

You want peace?

And you're getting married?!

:D

Just kidding. All the best to both of you.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


LOL. No brawl here. We just agreed to disagree :D

Congratulations and best of luck to you. He's a lucky man.

Exactly! Discussion is good. And I had Pepto down for the count, for the record! :D