Trial Starts for Preachers Arrested Outside Pro-Homosexual Celebration

[billiefan2000]

{{Note this is not taking place in some foreign communist country. It's happening in Philadelphia.))

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/1/82004d.asp

[no one in particular]

This (http://www.eveningsun.com/Stories/0,1413,140~9956~1882806,00.html) a link to an account of the story that is a little bit less bias. The agapepress seems to be playing up the poor persecuted xian angle. You see, billiefan, when a story is responsibly reported there is at least some attempt to get both sides of the story into the article. I suggest that you ignore articles that make no attempt to do so.

To summarize:

Police have a history of and a precedent to keep potentially violent groups of protestors apart from one another, at even public events. There was a simple buffer set up to keep the protestors 50 feet from the event. The police issued warnings to several folks for violating the buffer zone. Eventually these four preachers were arrested and fined a whopping $100.

[billiefan2000]

but in either version of the story there is something bothersome:

Rev. Grove was arrested while preaching against homosexuality.

(Since when did that become a crime in the USA)


also:


How come Christians cant have their own parades in towns anymore.


(Answer: Cause the ACLU would sue and scream the lie about Separation of Church and State)

[Flaherty]

Agape press is a religious press, so we may not be getting both sides of the story. I searched the Philadelphia Inquirer web site but found nothing about it. But if the story at face value is correct, then the arrests were not legal.

[no one in particular]

Originally posted by billiefan2000

Rev. Grove was arrested while preaching against homosexuality.

(Since when did that become a crime in the USA)The Evening Sun.com article that I linked to was very specific about the reason the preachers were arrested. They were not arrested for preaching. They were arrested for violating the buffer that the police had already set up. Originally posted by billiefan2000

How come Christians cant have their own parades in towns anymore.*underline mine

Yeah, I going to have to go ahead and ask you to cite a source that claim that xians can’t have parades.

[geni]

Do you think I should tell billiefan2000 that in the UK we have a state church and you would get arrested for that kind of behavior over here as well.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
but in either version of the story there is something bothersome:

Rev. Grove was arrested while preaching against homosexuality.

(Since when did that become a crime in the USA)

When it violates some other law. If you break into my house and preach against homosexuality, you are breaking the law and should be arrested.

Speech should be protected, but just because a person is engaging in speech doesn't mean that person is exempt from laws to protect public safety.


also:


How come Christians cant have their own parades in towns anymore.


(Answer: Cause the ACLU would sue and scream the lie about Separation of Church and State)

Wrong answer.

First, as long as they file for the normal permits and so forth, they have every right that groups such as the KKK or the Boy Scouts to have a parade.

This is how the 1st Amendment works:

A city can restrict the "time, place and manner" of any free speech. Since a parade goes through the city streets, the city could ban them outright, could require a permit, a deposit, and so forth.

However, a city cannot discriminate on the basis of religious or political content of the parade.


So, Billiefan, if you in fact know of a circumstance where a church was forbidden by a city to have a parade based solely on the religious content of the parade (or religious beliefs of the organizers) I'm roughly 100% certain that the local ACLU would, resources available, take the case on the side of the church, as the church is being discriminated against.

Of course, if that happened, the fundies would lose one of their favorite made up demons. They are so good at potraying the ACLU as being anti-religious through distortion and lies that it never occurs to them that if they really were being treated unfairly by the government on the basis of religion the ACLU would be one of the first groups to their defense.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Flaherty
Agape press is a religious press, so we may not be getting both sides of the story. I searched the Philadelphia Inquirer web site but found nothing about it. But if the story at face value is correct, then the arrests were not legal.


If the story is true then you are right,but in our increasingly Anti-Christian society it shouldnt matter what is legal or what is true anymore.

I mean,most people dont mind seeing a HATER (I mean believer in Jesus) being harassed and hated for believing in JESUS CHRIST.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by billiefan2000



If the story is true then you are right,but in our increasingly Anti-Christian society it shouldnt matter what is legal or what is true anymore.

I mean,most people dont mind seeing a HATER (I mean believer in Jesus) being harassed and hated for believing in JESUS CHRIST.

Once again you put your stupidity on display. Why do you admire fundamentalist christian criminals? That seems very immoral.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by billiefan2000



If the story is true then you are right,but in our increasingly Anti-Christian society it shouldnt matter what is legal or what is true anymore.
Huh? If the law is to be ignored, at what point are you going to start advocating shooting people? Remember it goes both ways. You have no right to expect others to follow the law if you do not.
I mean,most people dont mind seeing a HATER (I mean believer in Jesus) being harassed and hated for believing in JESUS CHRIST.

I don't believe that all people that believe in Jesus are haters. However, I don't believe that belief in Jesus excuses hate.

If someone is actually harassed by the government based on religion, and not just denied preferencial treatment, you would be suprised at the identity and number of these people that fundies demonize who will come to the religious person's defense.

I know I would, even at great personal risk. Even though by your telling I am going to Hell when I die, I'd readily volunteer my services if you were ever really oppressed based on your religion. I doubt I am alone in this regard.

However, I doubt you really have any idea what real religious oppresion is. It isn't being denied special status under the law, or being opposed in an attempt to make this a Christian nation.

[shemp]

Why bother arguing with billiefan anymore? You might as well argue with a houseplant.

Everybody go have a nice stiff drink and lie down on the couch and watch the football game.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by billiefan2000

I mean,most people dont mind seeing a HATER (I mean believer in Jesus) being harassed and hated for believing in JESUS CHRIST.

A believer in Jesus is a HATER? Is that an acronym for something? Is every Christian a hateful person, and is that a theory or have you verified that belief?

This sounds a bit hysterical here, but I don't really know where you are coming from I guess. Yes, some believers in Jesus are haters, or HATERS, but you shouldn't judge a whole group of people based on the behavior of certain of its members.

-Elliot

[DarkMagician]

Originally posted by shemp
Why bother arguing with billiefan anymore? You might as well argue with a houseplant.

Everybody go have a nice stiff drink and lie down on the couch and watch the football game. Does having wine, sitting in a chair, and watching a play on PBS count?

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by shemp
Why bother arguing with billiefan anymore? You might as well argue with a houseplant.

Everybody go have a nice stiff drink and lie down on the couch and watch the football game.

I can't. I don't have a couch anywhere near a TV.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by elliotfc


A believer in Jesus is a HATER? Is that an acronym for something? Is every Christian a hateful person, and is that a theory or have you verified that belief?

This sounds a bit hysterical here, but I don't really know where you are coming from I guess. Yes, some believers in Jesus are haters, or HATERS, but you shouldn't judge a whole group of people based on the behavior of certain of its members.

-Elliot

I think Billiefan, as he is actually a big fan of Jesus (no, not the one that plays for the Astros), is projecting to us that we think they are all "haters," similar to when I say I am an evil athiest.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
but in either version of the story there is something bothersome:

Rev. Grove was arrested while preaching against homosexuality.

(Since when did that become a crime in the USA)

He was not arested for "preaching against homosexuality", his actions would have gotten him arrested regardless of the content of his speech, preaching against homosexuality, preaching in favor of homosexulaity, selling amway, whatever. Freedom of speech does not give you the right to harass people in an attempt to get them to listen to you nor does it give you the right to interfere with anyone elses speech.


also:


How come Christians cant have their own parades in towns anymore.


(Answer: Cause the ACLU would sue and scream the lie about Separation of Church and State)

Christians are not forbidden to hav their own parades. What they can't do is force me as a tax payer to support it. If they pay for the permits and go through all the legal hoops in their locality, I see no reasons Christians couldn't have a parade.

Methinks you are making ***** up.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by DarkMagician
Does having wine, sitting in a chair, and watching a play on PBS count?

I think that qualifies you as gay. :D

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by shemp
Why bother arguing with billiefan anymore? You might as well argue with a houseplant.

Not all of us have houseplants ... :(

[the_ignored]

Originally posted by Suddenly


I think Billiefan, as he is actually a big fan of Jesus (no, not the one that plays for the Astros), is projecting to us that we think they are all "haters," similar to when I say I am an evil athiest.

The problem is, people like billiefan really ARE that paranoid. Just get a load of this (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1216462#post1216462) thread!


They've been feeding their own fears so much, they believe them. Anytime someone disagrees with them, or tries to stop them from enforcing their views on others, they honestly seem to interpret that as "hatred"!

Here's a case in point (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1216938#post1216938)! They feel free to try to push their views on others, yet if you stand up to them, it's called "hate"!

Fortunately, not all are as bad as this "Stevangelist" guy, but this is probably how "billiefan's" mind works...



Holy ____! This guy (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1217226#post1217226) is worse! Just listen to this:

I believe that we are to take the gospel to the unsaved. God's word never returns void.

I was kicked off a bullitin board for depressed people. I went there specifically to witness. I was able to plant seeds for about 3 weeks before I was kicked off.

I feel that we are to plant the seeds- someone else may water etc....

[c4ts]

Originally posted by shemp
Why bother arguing with billiefan anymore? You might as well argue with a houseplant.

Everybody go have a nice stiff drink and lie down on the couch and watch the football game.

But Shemp, arguing with housplants can be time consuming fun.

"All right ficus, are you saying that A does not equal A? That's impossible! Support your statement!"

"..."

"Not talking? Mr. Ficus, meet Mr. Seventh Story Window."

"..."

"No! I disagree! Out the window for you!"

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by the_ignored
Holy ____! This guy (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1217226#post1217226) is worse! Just listen to this:
I want to change the context of that particular post, lets see if the author would agree...

I believe that we are to take the gospel to the unsaved. Allah's word never returns void.

I was kicked off a bullitin board for depressed people. I went there specifically to preach. I was able to plant seeds for about 3 weeks before I was kicked off.

I feel that we are to plant the seeds- someone else may water etc, but for others to plant their own seeds in our soil is immoral....
Alrighty.

[Funkenstien]

Won't it be awesome when everything in the world is done for the glory of Jesus?!?!?!?!!? imagine it!!! how fortunate people raising families in the MK will be... not to mention having all of us immortals around to help them out.

Oh my god. Oh. my. Gawd. All of us immortals around to help them?? Is there a Gospel according to Phillip K Dick that I somehow missed? There was a quote on these boards not to long ago, which I'm about to paraphrase that pretty much somes this one up.

"I find it annoying when people can't tell the difference between God and Spiderman."

:D :D

[c4ts]

You mean God doesn't have a day job working for a tabloid newspaper?

[Zero]

I say we go ahead and start throwing the book at loser "Christians" who break the law with their hate speech on purpose, so they can lie and say they are being persecuted. They want to go to jail, I say we throw them in jail, and keep them there longer and longer periods each time they get arrested.

[the_ignored]

At least they mean well.....

Joyfilly's post (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1319014#post1319014)

Billiefan - you are doing the right thing in the eyes of G-d. What everyone else thinks is just bunk. He is the only one we should srive to please. I think you have a huge heart for the unsaved and your perseverance will one day be rewarded!!. Keep up the good work, don't get disccouraged and when we finally meet I will cheer E-tra loud when you are presented with your crown!!

Hey. Look at her sig!

"My great concern is not whether God is on our side; my great concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right." - Abraham Lincoln in a reply to a deputation of Southerners
Wasn't god the one who instituted/allowed slavery in the first place? What in hell was Lincoln thinking?

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
but in either version of the story there is something bothersome:

Rev. Grove was arrested while preaching against homosexuality.

(Since when did that become a crime in the USA)


He was arrested while preaching because he villated a police/court order. Are you saying that if he preaches against homosexuality while commiting murder then he shouldn't be arrested for commiting murder?


also:


How come Christians cant have their own parades in towns anymore.


(Answer: Cause the ACLU would sue and scream the lie about Separation of Church and State)

Any proof of that last ? Or is that just mere speculation on your part. When and where did this happen?

[Filippo Lippi]

Reminded me of something Spike Milligan said

"Like there's an empty stage and two men come on wheeling a door, wearing suits and collars. There's a knock. 'We're Jehovah's burglars,' they say, 'and we're being persecuted by police for our beliefs.' 'And what are your beliefs?' 'We believe you've got a lot of money.' "

[hgc]

Originally posted by shemp
Why bother arguing with billiefan anymore? You might as well argue with a houseplant.

... This forum is becoming increasingly anti-houseplant.

[hgc]

OK, enough joking about houseplants.

Do you care, billiefan, that you are an instrument to spread lies? Do you do it willingly?