WHY the atheists I meet are usually such weirdos ?

[El Greco]

I meet this girl, she says she's an atheist. Under normal circumstances I'd be happy, but having had previous bad experiences I remain buttoned-up. Sure enough, she turns out to be a whacky anti-Israeli believing that there is an international conspiracy, tra-la-la & doo-be-doo-da. Jewish eyes are watching her every movement and try to control her life.

The other day I meet this guy who says in a calm way that he doesn't believe in God. After 5 minutes I know that he doesn't believe in God because he's a fanatic communist. I'm pretty sure that if tomorrow the communist party leader says that we should believe in God, he will reform immediately.

Some years ago I meet the father of my then-girlfriend, he is an atheist. Guess what, he's one of those birdbrains who believe we should reinstate the twelve ancient Greek Gods. He also believes that ancient Greeks had developed science to a higher degree than we have today, and that they probably were communicating with aliens.

Gosh, if atheists are like that, I'll stick with theists, thank you. Frankly speaking, I have only met in person one or two sane atheists. I don't know what to say... Sometimes I watch the people around me and I think that my greatest quality is that I am normal...

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

This can't be atheists are the elite sane few who believe in reality not others delusions!

[El Greco]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!
This can't be atheists are the elite sane few who believe in reality not others delusions!

Dear rational troll, the weirdos seem to occupy a great part of the reality, and somehow I wonder whether this fact makes this reality delusional by definition :D

[geni]

Originally posted by El Greco
WHY the atheists I meet are usually such weirdos ?

Need to belive. They stike down god then try and put somthing else in gods place. I seems to happen a lot (one of the few people I've met who really belived the moon landings were a hoax was a militant athiest) you will often see people trying to repace god with men such as Darwin. The need to belive is strong.

[wayrad]

My personal hypothesis is that people who announce their religion or lack thereof to near-strangers tend to be weirdos, regardless of what they believe.;)

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

What Wayrad said.

~~ Paul

[hammegk]

Or perhaps their Brightness is obscuring your view of them? ;)

[El Greco]

I agree with everyone, my observation though is more of a statistical one. I'm pretty sure that an effusive devout theist wouldn't be less of a weirdo, but with atheists the percentage is approaching 100%. And these people are near-strangers because I choose them to remain so.

If during 2004 I meet 50 new persons who believe in God, I'd expect 1 or 2 of them to be total weirdos. But if meet 50 atheists, I'm ready to bet that 90% of them would be delusional.

It sure seems like the act of denouncing God is for many people not a result of a rational process, but an expression of their need to be "different".

[hammegk]

OK, it's time to remind you that anecdotes do not equal data. :p

[geni]

Originally posted by hammegk
OK, it's time to remind you that anecdotes do not equal data. :p

Don't start this one again please? Can we all agree that they do equal data just in very narrow and well defined ways?

[hammegk]

LOL. Did you notice the :p ? ;)

On JREF it had to happen sooner or later. :D

[El Greco]

Originally posted by hammegk
OK, it's time to remind you that anecdotes do not equal data.

I don't know whether this is satisfactory consolation since it would mean that I'm the victim of a very unfortunate and improbable haphazardness :D

[geni]

Originally posted by hammegk
LOL. Did you notice the :p ? ;)

On JREF it had to happen sooner or later. :D

Yes I did But I know from past experiance that it takes more than a few emotcons to stop that kind of thing happening around here.

[Yahweh]

Atheists are completely insane-crazy-go-nuts!
They're looking at you.
Crazy crazy crazy.

[epepke]

:con2: If you don't normally associate with atheists, the only ones you're going to see are the loud ones, who tend to be weirdos.

If you don't normally associate with homosexuals, the only ones you're going to see are the flamboyant ones and the ones who copulate in public restrooms, who tend to be weirdos.

If you don't normally associate with Baptists, the only ones you're going to see are the ones on teevee demanding that evilution be removed from public schools or the occasional one who shoots a physician in the back of the head.

If you don't normally associate with African-Americans, the only ones you're going to see are Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan and maybe Snoop Dog.

Etc. and so on and so forth.

Besides, I'd guess that your whatever's father was pulling your chain, because judging from your reactions, you seem to have a virtual "Pull My Chain" sign.

[Darwin'sGoat]

The majority of the atheists I meet are of the "Rebelling against their Catholic upbringing" variety.

[thaiboxerken]

This goes to show that the only thing atheists all share is the lack of belief in a god.

I personally don't believe in a god, or anything paranormal.

I think that you see only weird atheists because you want to see weird atheists. IN other words, you've preframed in your mind that atheists are weird.

I seriously doubt that the atheist talking about reinstating the Greek Gods was serious about it. However, the Greeks did contribute greatly to science and technology. About aliens, I doubt he believes in that nonsense either. He was probably talking sarcastically and you didn't catch the joke.

"Sometimes I watch the people around me and I think that my greatest quality is that I am normal..."

You've probably decided that anyone who doesn't believe in a god of some sort is "weird" simply because they are different than you in that aspect. You are seeing what you want to see. Your anecdotes are not a statistic. Your experiences are subjective.

You say 90% of the atheists you meet are weird. I doubt it.

[epepke]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
I seriously doubt that the atheist talking about reinstating the Greek Gods was serious about it.

In any event, it would hardly be atheist, as the 12 Greek gods were, like, you know, gods. Hence the name "gods."


However, the Greeks did contribute greatly to science and technology. About aliens, I doubt he believes in that nonsense either. He was probably talking sarcastically and you didn't catch the joke.

Well, since according his location the poster lives in a Greek island, perhaps this refers to a lamentable proclivity amongst many Greeks to look constantly backward to ancient Greece as some sort of idyllic time and to ignore anything that has happened since then.

[Cleopatra]

El Greco you are the third Greek I meet in my life who declares that he is an atheist. The one you call " my sock puppet" , Desdemona, is the first person I have met my business associate is the second person I know that declares his atheism and you are the third.

When you live in a Christian country like Greece, atheists feel very oppressed and they have the urge to demonstrate their anger towards religion and the dominance of the Greek Church in the society.

In France where the percentages of atheism are really high, you don't come up with wild demonstrations of atheism.

I agree with your observations though and I admit that in this forum I met the first people who are atheists without becoming ridiculous, some times they appear like fanatics but they live in a country that the President communicates with God so who can blame them?

[plindboe]

If people you have only met 5 minutes before, tells you that they are theists or atheists, they are obviously fanatic about something. People who don't give out such personal information so easily are most probably less fanatical. And I can imagine that you probably know a great deal of atheists that are quite normal but have never told you that they are atheists.

Luckily I haven't encountered any such types during my entire life, so I find it hard to believe that any such group consists mainly of weirdos. Theists and atheists alike have all been rational and kind in the conversations I have had with them with them.

Personally I'm an athiest and not a weirdo as far as I can tell. I was abducted by aliens when I was 10 years old and they told me that there was no God, and that they were the true creaters of the human race. Just kidding. :p

[El Greco]

epepke said:
Besides, I'd guess that your whatever's father was pulling your chain, because judging from your reactions, you seem to have a virtual "Pull My Chain" sign.

I don't live in an island, I live in Athens. No one was pulling my leg, these people didn't even learn I'm an atheist. When I meet people I talk little and I listen a lot. I ask a lot of questions. And I was not the only one to observe these things.

epepkeYou probably don't know how popular "Hellenism" is, so you think that someone was pulling my leg. Check the Hellenism FAQ (http://www.promachos.org/faq.html). The Den of Kerberos (http://www.angelfire.com/indie/kerberos/index.html). And a page of links (http://www.goddess-athena.org/Links/index.htm) for further study. Here in Greece there are Hellenistic magazines and even political parties.

thaiboxerken said:
You've probably decided that anyone who doesn't believe in a god of some sort is "weird" simply because they are different than you in that aspect. You are seeing what you want to see. Your anecdotes are not a statistic. Your experiences are subjective.

thaiboxerken, I don't treat you like an idiot, so don't treat me like one, ok ? Please, give me a break. I never claimed that there is a general truth in what I see. But I just listed facts above. If I hear about Israeli conspiracies, fanatic communists and Greek Gods, I'm not making that up. Can you understand this simple thing or not ? Maybe it's something related to Greek culture or whatever. I don't know. But from your response, it seems you react like I said something about your mother. I know sarcasm when I see it, I'm very proud of my perception. If you want to contribute something that's fine. If you want to attack my comprehension skills and make me look like a biased weirdo myself, go play in another thread. You know zero facts and yet you are ready to assume that I'm making it up. Dear Zeus!

In these pages I have met lots of atheists with their brains in their head. But this site is not representative of the atheists I meet in Athens.

[El Greco]

Here's another good link, the Supreme Council of the Gentile Hellenes (http://www.ysee.gr/html/eng/index.html). There are tons of other sites, but obviously most of them are only in Greek (a few in ancient Greek, too).

But according to Ken, I just don't catch their joke.

[Cleopatra]

I second El Greco's experience. Many times when I am with friends outside or in friends' houses and I start talking about Antiquities , there is always somebody who will approach me and ask me if I have anything to do with the " Pythagoreans" or "Twelve Gods Group" or whatever :)

During the Christian Byzantine Empire many of the Antiquities were destroyed, The Olympic Games were banned, people were forbid to visit Acropolis and Parthenon!!!

Very few people know that the reason we have today access to the works of Plato, Aristotle, the Greeks etc is due to the Monasteries and the monks who copies with in hand the works of Antiquity. Well, today we have only what monks found appropriate so you can imagine the disgust that people who admire the Glorius Greek Antiquity feel about the Christians :)

[geni]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I second El Greco's experience. Many times when I am with friends outside or in friends' houses and I start talking about Antiquities , there is always somebody who will approach me and ask me if I have anything to do with the " Pythagoreans" or "Twelve Gods Group" or whatever :)


So these people are the equiverlant of our pagan gruops? Interesting.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by geni


So these people are the equiverlant of our pagan gruops? Interesting.
Yes!!! You found the right equivalent!!! Thank you :)


edited to add: Although the term "pagan" is a Christian , rather resentful term.

[geni]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
edited to add: Although the term "pagan" is a Christian , rather resentful term.

Thats what they call themselves. I'm not going to stop them. I wounder how many other countries have groups reviving the old relgions.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by geni
Thats what they call themselves. I'm not going to stop them. I wounder how many other countries have groups reviving the old relgions.

The last site I linked belongs to an organization that is a member of the World Congress of Ethnic Religions (http://www.wcer.org/). I guess this answers your question :)

[epepke]

Originally posted by El Greco
I don't live in an island, I live in Athens. No one was pulling my leg, these people didn't even learn I'm an atheist. When I meet people I talk little and I listen a lot. I ask a lot of questions. And I was not the only one to observe these things.

I don't know. I wasn't there. However, you do give the impression of taking things, including yourself, awfully seriously, which in my experience often results in chain-pulling.

I looked at your links, which look to me about as vapid as the Wiccans etc. that we have over here. Was there something else I was supposed to have gotten from them?

I did see a political comedian the other night (I forget his name, but I mistook him for Richard Gere) who pointed out that the US, as opposed to Europe, has a tendency to laugh at domestic extremists rather than take them seriously. So I have a tendency to laugh at this "Hellenism" stuff, which maybe you don't share.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by epepke
I wasn't there. However, you do give the impression of taking things, including yourself, awfully seriously, which in my experience often results in chain-pulling.

Wrong impression :)

Originally posted by epepke
So I have a tendency to laugh at this "Hellenism" stuff, which maybe you don't share.

Of course I share it, but when you meet people who take it seriously what are you going to say to them ? Are you going to laugh at their faces ? Are you going to be rude and destroy a social event ? Or are you just going to think that they are weirdos and walk away, exactly like I did ?

[Cleopatra]

To geni and El Greco:

*Clears throat*

There is a slight difference between Ethnics and Pagans.

In the NT and the Speeches of the Apostoles we read about the Ethnics who are the educated "bourgeois" that resisted to the Christian teaching. Pagans were the the people who lived out of the big cities where information, preaching etc didn't reach them and they either kept practing the old religions or they twisted Christianity by adding elements of the old religion in the religious practice of Christianity.

To El Greco: In our country, Carnival is considered by the official Church as a Pagan practice.

Note that Pagans existed in the Antiquity too, before Christianity.The word Pagan comes from the Latin "Paganus" that means peasants. It's known that outside the cities,in antiquity, people were celebrating old forms of religions and very often they engaged themselves in the most questionable practices, like sexual orgies etc.

A slight but existing difference :)

[geni]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
In the NT and the Speeches of the Apostoles we read about the Ethnics who are the educated "bourgeois" that resisted to the Christian teaching. Pagans were the the people who lived out of the big cities where information, preaching etc didn't reach them and they either kept practing the old religions or they twisted Christianity by adding elements of the old religion in the religious practice of Christianity.


The group I am talking about are the ones in the UK who call themseleves pagans. They claim to be pratising the celtic relgions (but for some reason don't want to call themselves druids). Most of them seem to be an extream part of the new age movement.

[El Greco]

Cleopatra, no doubt these terms mean different things, but many people refer to theirselves using both. For example, in the last link I provided they use both "ethnics" and "pagans" ("Christian Persecutions against the Pagan Hellenes"). And as you can see, they also happily engage in pagan rituals.

They are free to practice anything of course, but the problem I see is that they display this schizophrenic attitude that everyone is stalking them: christians, jews, the state, etc.

[Ed]

Originally posted by El Greco
It sure seems like the act of denouncing God is for many people not a result of a rational process, but an expression of their need to be "different".

It seems to me that anyone who theatrically "denounces" anything is a bit off kilter.

[jimmygun]

I rarely meet other atheists who are as developed (for wont of a better word) as I am. I was a neophyte atheist once. I knew there was no god, that the supernatural did not exist etc but I was without the knowledge and verbal skills to put my thoughts into words.

Investigation, discussion and learning helped me to get to the point where I am today. Tomorrow I will be even more accomplished as every day I learn more. A few years ago I did not have the answers for religious and supernatural claims. Today I have at least the where withall to search those answers out.

The atheists I talk to today are neophytes who for the most part seem to be anti-religion rather than atheistic. I try to point them to such places as JREF, Infidelguy, and other sites which will let them investigate for themselves. I also encourage them to go to such sites as Rapture Ready and Sylvia Browne so they can practice their debunking skills.

Once a person begins to think for themselves, question not only others beliefs but their own too, and investigate, they are on the road to what I call...atheistic maturity.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by jimmygun

Once a person begins to think for themselves, question not only others beliefs but their own too, and investigate, they are on the road to what I call...atheistic maturity.


Ummmm . . no . . can't say it's happened to me.

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

It would probably be best for skeptics to think for non-atheists! In a perfect world it wouldn't be ok to believe or think anything unless if CSICOP approved!

[shecky]

I gotta go with Paul and Wayrad. There are ocasions when I find out more information about acquaintances than I need to know, usually at their insistence. This is the first clue that something ain't right whith them.

FWIW, when I've been in this situation, it's usually something more along the likes of being born again xtian or the Vatican in cahoots with the CIA, etc.

[Loki]

El Greco,

We're not all weird, but here at Atheists'R'Us we do insist upon a few simple rules :

1. No pineapple on pizza;
2. A change of underwear at least every 10 days;
3. *Strictly* no country and western music;
4. No greeks (sorry, but Greek atheists are just too out there) Edited to add : Paul C. Anagnostopoulos is the except that makes the rule. Sorry Cleopatra]
5. No keeping of alien species as pets (aliens have rights too you know)
6. All orgone accumulators to be turned off after 10pm on weekdays.

Anyone not following the above is cleary *no* atheist. (Oh, and you IP address has been logged as part of our global tracking of potential atheist agitators - hope you don't mind)

[Zep]

Actually, if I understand correctly, "atheist" means "no theism". Not just one religion or a particular religion, but all religions.

And my reading of your OP, El Greco, would suggest that the people you crossed paths with did still hold onto a "religion" of sorts. Perhaps not your regular and well-known go-to-church-on-Sunday type religion, but an irrational belief in unfounded and unsupportable concepts nonetheless.

Which would suggest that they are not actually "atheists" at all, they just think they are, or have convinced themselves they are anyway. So actually that leaves you nothing to be confused about, hey!

[NullPointerException]

They don't come close to meeting the definition of atheist. Especially the one who wanted to reinstate the Greek Pantheon.

[epepke]

Originally posted by El Greco
Of course I share it, but when you meet people who take it seriously what are you going to say to them ? Are you going to laugh at their faces ? Are you going to be rude and destroy a social event ? Or are you just going to think that they are weirdos and walk away, exactly like I did ?

Well, it kinda depends. Most of the time I'm not going to be rude, but there are certainly times.

On the other hand, I don't generally try to persuade people in other time zones that they are a big deal because there are some magazines, either.

[The idea]

Originally posted by Zep
[...] the people you crossed paths with did still hold onto a "religion" of sorts. Perhaps not your regular and well-known go-to-church-on-Sunday type religion, but an irrational belief in unfounded and unsupportable concepts nonetheless.

Aren't you constructing a rather partisan definition of "religion"?

Also, isn't your explanation somewhat circular? Someone identifies himself as an atheist and asserts that the moon landings were a hoax. That's a weird belief. Puzzle: why would an atheist have a weird belief? Solution: a weird belief is like a religious belief and naturally someone who has religious beliefs is some kind of weirdo. Now that we know the person is a weirdo, it is not surprising that the person has weird beliefs.

Did we explain why someone has a weird belief? We start with the assumption that it is weird. Then we invoke the word "religion." Then we repeat the original assumption: it is weird. How does that explain anything?

[kittynh]

I have friend who is a Mormon. Our husband served together and she WAS always trying to convert me. She now just says she's going after me once I'm dead (they can do that!). Once we got that out of the way, she finally told me why she was SO wanted me to become a Mormon.

"They are just all so weird, we need more normal people like yourself."

The odd thing is that SHE isn't weird, and people are shocked when they find out she's a Mormon. However, she had a terrible family tragedy (so bad it made the front page of the Washington Post) and turned to this religion. When she lost her family, this became her family. She's still a Mormon, but admits she doesn't believe most of it. But, I think, rather like a child that loves the parent that beats it, she won't leave as she's afraid of losing yet another family.

[Zep]

Originally posted by The idea
Aren't you constructing a rather partisan definition of "religion"?

Also, isn't your explanation somewhat circular? Someone identifies himself as an atheist and asserts that the moon landings were a hoax. That's a weird belief. Puzzle: why would an atheist have a weird belief? Solution: a weird belief is like a religious belief and naturally someone who has religious beliefs is some kind of weirdo. Now that we know the person is a weirdo, it is not surprising that the person has weird beliefs.

Did we explain why someone has a weird belief? We start with the assumption that it is weird. Then we invoke the word "religion." Then we repeat the original assumption: it is weird. How does that explain anything? I'm not that fussed about this, really. Atheists can be nutters, just as theists can be.

I use the term "weird" to describe anything that does not SEEM to conform to "normal thought processes". I'm weird sometimes myself. Some rational scientific ideas are weird too. Sometimes proximity and familiarity reduce weirdness.

And nutters and just nutters...

[Zero]

Originally posted by El Greco
I agree with everyone, my observation though is more of a statistical one. I'm pretty sure that an effusive devout theist wouldn't be less of a weirdo, but with atheists the percentage is approaching 100%. And these people are near-strangers because I choose them to remain so.

If during 2004 I meet 50 new persons who believe in God, I'd expect 1 or 2 of them to be total weirdos. But if meet 50 atheists, I'm ready to bet that 90% of them would be delusional.

It sure seems like the act of denouncing God is for many people not a result of a rational process, but an expression of their need to be "different". You've probably met a ton more atheists than you think...if someone is talking about their atheism with relative strangers, they are probably nutty. I've worked in the same place for the last 3 1/2 years, and maybe 4 people know I'm an atheist.

Plus, these "atheists" you met held various other pseudo-religious beliefs, so they don't count!("no true Scotsman", I know, but there you have it)

[Yeah_Right]

I am, or would like to think I am a sane atheist without any delsusional beliefs like wanting to reinstate the Gods of Olympus, or thinking ancient aliens once walked on earth. I have met my share of irrational atheists and equally irrational theists. I have a relative, in fact who is a born again Christian, a Fundamentalist!, and he has no problem believing that the Old Testament character Enoch was responsible for the construction of the pyramids. As an aside, that really seems to me to be out of the realm of a fundamentalist christian.

[Yeah_Right]

I am, or would like to think I am a sane atheist without any delsusional beliefs like wanting to reinstate the Gods of Olympus, or thinking ancient aliens once walked on earth. I have met my share of irrational atheists and equally irrational theists. I have a relative, in fact who is a born again Christian, a Fundamentalist!, and he has no problem believing that the Old Testament character Enoch was responsible for the construction of the pyramids. As an aside, that really seems to me to be out of the realm of a fundamentalist christian.

What it all comes down to, ultimately, is that there are weirdos in every philosophy, and I really can't say what the ratio is from odd believers to odd non-believers. Perhaps there is a scientific study somewhere that measures this phenomena, for lack of a better word.

[Soapy Sam]

El Greco- Note that the people you mention have (at least ) two things in common:-
1.Self-avowed (indeed self-advertised) atheism.
2.You.

Now you seem like a pretty sane person to me, but is it possible you are subconsciously attracted to oddballs? I know I am. I might go so far as to suggest that most of us here at JREF are a bit odd in our way of thinking. (ie non-average for our respective home areas).

I don't know if all the folk you mention were Greek, but atheism (or an utter lack of interest in the question) is pretty mainstream in the UK. Maybe as others suggest, in places where atheism is abnormal, only abnormal folk are atheists. I suspect both hyper rational and hyper irrational people may be atheists in Greece.
I assume we can place you with the rationalists. But I dunno- did you ever cast the demon out of that modem?;)

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam

I don't know if all the folk you mention were Greek, but atheism (or an utter lack of interest in the question) is pretty mainstream in the UK. Maybe as others suggest, in places where atheism is abnormal, only abnormal folk are atheists.

Yea, I concur that atheism and more generally a disbelief in the paranormal is pretty mainstream over here (the UK). Naturally therefore atheists over here are not oddballs :) It's me who is the oddball. And not just in my beliefs, but in my general personality and interactions with other people :)

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by Yeah_Right
I am, or would like to think I am a sane atheist without any delsusional beliefs

I'm also an atheist and I'm completly normal too:wink8: :crazy: :arrow: :hit: :biggrin: :book: :c2: :th: :run:

[Soapy Sam]

Kerberos- don't be too hard on yourself. Just because you burn monasteries, rape the nuns and pillage the church, does not mean you are an atheist.
You could be a born-again Viking!

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
Kerberos- don't be too hard on yourself. Just because you burn monasteries, rape the nuns and pillage the church, does not mean you are an atheist.
You could be a born-again Viking!

Hard on myself? I'm proud of being a monetary burning, nun raping, church pillaging and entirely sane :fg: :c2: :book: :r: atheist.

[Frankie]

And another Atheist. One that is as sane as the next person. I certainly am not anti Israel, Palestinian, Arab or Ompaloompa or spend time watching the Jews or any other flavour of religion watching me.

They have their religious inclinations, I, have my non religious inclinations. As long as they respect my personal choice to be an atheist, I will respect theirs. Doesn't mean I won't engage in a healthy debate about their need for a religion.

Having come across hard core militant Christians I'd say that is one experience nobody needs to have occur. Then there are always the militant factions in every group, cult etc. Just don't place everybody in those groups for a meeting of the radicals, that is just unfair.

[Soapy Sam]

Ah, but Frankie, do you really respect their beliefs?

Personally, I think they all are talking utter nonsense and I see no reason why I should respect them. And when someone actually defines himself, or worse, his nation, by a belief in nonsense, I'm afraid I'm unlikely to take anything he says very seriously.

I'd include atheism in that to a slightly lesser extent, on the grounds that atheism per se is not sufficient to be a defining characteristic of a man or a nation, any more than not believing in Santa Claus would be sufficient.

[Frankie]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
Ah, but Frankie, do you really respect their beliefs?

Personally, I think they all are talking utter nonsense and I see no reason why I should respect them. And when someone actually defines himself, or worse, his nation, by a belief in nonsense, I'm afraid I'm unlikely to take anything he says very seriously.

I'd include atheism in that to a slightly lesser extent, on the grounds that atheism per se is not sufficient to be a defining characteristic of a man or a nation, any more than not believing in Santa Claus would be sufficient.
Yes I do. Soapy Sam, I do respect others choices. As with any other belief or such similar lawful item.

I may in some instances, disagree strongly with some on this. But I still respect that it is their life to chose and live as they see fit Also that it is not upto me to tell them how to or what and not what they wish to believe in.

I find the idea of a God weird, then by equal sense, those that do find my non belief weird. Why is that such a problem to respect?

As I said it is their life to live as they see fit within the set society rules and laws, that I respect. I can't see how you have no respect for this?

[Soapy Sam]

Frankie-

The question is - respect for what exactly? Everyone has the right to make up their own mind, but they must take the consequences of getting things wrong. (As, sometimes, must everyone else. Every irrational belief costs.)

What if part of their belief is the requirement to bring others into line with their thinking, by whatever means present themselves? This is a common precept of several religions, including Christianity. (Less so these days, but Britain (as one example) tore itself apart over religion for centuries. It's not nonsense I want to see revived.)

If a man has the irrational belief that he can fly, will you let him, out of respect for his belief, jump off a cliff? I doubt it. Far less a child, who deserves to be educated to think in a way that reflects reality.

Insofar as stupid belief is harmless, we can afford to ignore it. A question often discussed or implied in discussions here is how far is too far? Where are we obliged to make a stand?

Respect for people is one thing. We agree on that.
But respect for their beliefs is something else.
This does not mean that I would enter a man's house and spit on his lares et Penates , there are requirements of simple good manners. On the other hand, under my own roof I will put up with no such foolishness. (And rightly or wrongly, I tend to view this board as being partly "under my roof")

Of course, tolerance is a principle critical to civilisation. But tolerance does not mean that all belief systems are actually equivalent, either factually or morally. Some people out there are your enemies. Perhaps not personally, but they hold views inimical to your welfare.
Respect them by all means. But never assume they respect you.

[Corey]

I'm an atheist and I'm not a weirdo...at least of the variety you seem to have encountered.


I think you can chalk it up to the fact that most atheists aren't going out of their way to let everyone know they are. For myself personally, atheism isn't a religion or a belief structure...it's simply a lack of belief in a certain thing, which I have personal reasons and logic for. I'm not trying to convince everyone else there is no god and I'm not a big fan of pressing personal beliefs on other people. More accurately, you're meeting weirdos who are atheists...you've probably encountered other atheists who just didn't bring it up in coversation as a part of some larger belief structure that's a wee bit....shall we say...wacky?

Also, some people latch on to atheism like others latch on to christianity or wicca or anything else. Those are the people who generally run around telling everyone what they believe, starting arguments with people and generally being a pain in the butt just to be contrary to someone else (usually their fundamentalist christian parents).







I haven't posted in a while, hopefully that knocks some of the rust off, heh.

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam

If a man has the irrational belief that he can fly, will you let him, out of respect for his belief, jump off a cliff?

I'd let him do it, out of respect for the human gene pool. :D

[Soapy Sam]

Ha! A REAL Viking would THROW him off!

[ca3799]

Well, I, too, am an atheist and I'm not strange at all. In fact, I'm very (almost boringly) conventional in just about every other area.

I keep my atheism under wraps mostly these days (does that make me a closet atheist?) because I have small children and live in a heavily Caltholic neighborhood. I would not like to have my children treated differently because of my ideas.

In the past, when I was more liberal (but never in an in-your-face kind of way) in sharing my views, I have been 'haunted' by different kinds of religous folks- someone repeatedly left tracts on my bicycle in college, things have been mailed to me, I have had invitations to church, and I been informed that I have been mightily prayed over. I just don't want to deal with that junk these days.

I know of only one other family of atheists in my area, and they would fall into the 'odd' or 'unusual' camp. They advertise their difference with bumper stickers on their car and dress like hippie throw-backs with long hair and tie-dyed clothing.


When the kids get out of school, we moms frequently stay at the playground for a while and let the kids play. I usually sit quietly while the moms talk about the confirmation classes their children attend, or what the church band or theater group is up to. I did hear the moms say recently that they are having their children pray for the kids in the other atheist family. One mother said she had to have her son change classrooms to get away from the other atheist boy- not because he's an atheist, but because he is aggressive and hard to get along with (he seems to have some kind of behaviour problem).

Noone has asked me my views lately and I have not advertised them. If asked, I would be honest. I'm quite sure they would be shocked.

So we 'normal' atheists are out there. We could be sitting right next to you on the bench at the playground. Perhaps the only way you could recognize us is by our silence during some converations.

There are most likely other atheists in my area, but if there are, I don't know who they are.

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
Ha! A REAL Viking would THROW him off!

Why bother when he's going to jump by himself? In any case it's your contention that I'm a born again Viking. I, on the other hand, maintain that I'm simply a sane [insert various wacky emoticons] atheist.

[espritch]

I'm going to go with Wayrad on this one. I'm agnostic but I also live in the Bible belt, so I find that it is generally a lot easier to keep my belief (or rather lack of one) to myself. I see little to be gained in most situation in even bringing the subject up. The sort of people who tend to bring up their relgion (or atheism, or vegitarianism) with strangers without prompting tend to be those looking to make an issue of it.

[Frankie]

Soapy Sam

Do you mind if I get back to you or anybody else on this subject matter, at a much later date? Or we could at a later date, continue in private so as not to de-rail this topic?

I have another matter that uses up my free time at present.

Thanks. Frankie.

[Hal 2001]

I'm an atheist because the aliens told me to be one, the aliens and the little green dwarf sitting on my shoulder.

:wink8: :wink8: :biggrin:

The green dwarf tells me I talk to much and if I am not carefull I will be zapped by the aliens.


Mss Hal, and the green dwarf, and the aliens

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by El Greco
...Some years ago I meet the father of my then-girlfriend, he is an atheist. Guess what, he's one of those birdbrains who believe we should reinstate the twelve ancient Greek Gods.
Somehow I don't think that a person who wants to reinstate belief in any ancient gods is an atheist.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
Somehow I don't think that a person who wants to reinstate belief in any ancient gods is an atheist.

It's a little complicated, because of course these persons know that the twelve ancient Gods don't exist. They admit these Gods were naturally paganistic but they think their "human nature" and flaws make the believers depend less on them and more on theirselves (in order to create a new Golden Age). They say that people who need to believe should believe in these earthly Gods who are just a tad higher than humans, and not to a completely de-humanized Christian God.

[Jeff Corey]

It doesn't matter if they are "just a tad higher than humans", they are still gods. Anyone who believes in them is clearly not an atheist. They are merely substituting one set (the Trinity) for another.
An atheist believes in no gods whatsoever.
As an atheist, I should know.
And as others have pointed out, I can out-anecdote the best of your lot. I know scores of atheists, agnostics and apathetics (those who really don't give a rodent's rectum about the whole issue). They all tend to be more rational and level-headed that the Greek atheists you describe..

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
It doesn't matter if they are "just a tad higher than humans", they are still gods. Anyone who believes in them is clearly not an atheist. They are merely substituting one set (the Trinity) for another.

You miss my point. I said they don't believe in them, but they think that the Greek theists should believe in them.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Perhaps they are weirdos because they are Greek.;)

[Beanbag]

While I don't hide the fact that I'm an atheist, I don't advertise it, either. You might be surprised to find out just how many atheists you've met, but don't know they are atheists.

I live smack in the middle of the bible belt, and I've encountered enough "true believers" who, in my opinion, would have absolutely no qualms about killing me because I don't believe. Therefore, no Darwin fish on the car, no "Branded: Athiest" tee shirts, though there are times I would dearly love to wear the "What would Jesus do (for a Klondike Bar)?" tee shirt. I keep a low profile, because being visible means being a target.

The other atheists I've met locally are for the most part normal-looking, and act as I would expect most people. The only reason I knew they were atheists was that I met them at an atheist function. There are a few who actively picket Promise Keepers rallies, and make sure there's an atheist display alongside the nativity scenes on the courthouse lawn, just for equal time. As for me, I've had the crap beaten out of me once too many times for being different, so I pick my battles carefully, where I can get the best results for the effort expended and the pain experienced.

Anyone who comes up and declares themselves to be an atheist within five minutes of meeting a new person probably has other issues as well, like the one girl I knew in high school who publicly declared herself to be a witch (this was in the 70's). It was more a matter of her needing to be different and visible. It may be that they feel cut off from the rest of society, and are trying to make contact with anyone else who believes like they do.

Regards;
Beanbag

[Beanbag]

Originally posted by El Greco


It's a little complicated, because of course these persons know that the twelve ancient Gods don't exist. They admit these Gods were naturally paganistic but they think their "human nature" and flaws make the believers depend less on them and more on theirselves (in order to create a new Golden Age). They say that people who need to believe should believe in these earthly Gods who are just a tad higher than humans, and not to a completely de-humanized Christian God.

I always liked the Greek gods. They were so wonderfully human and easy to understand. They also had the morals and temperment of a spoiled eight-year-old child.

I'd rather have the hairy thunderer, rather than the cosmic muffin.

Regards;
Beanbag

[El Greco]

Just the other day there was this discussion on TV and another one of those Greek God lovers was there. He was behaving like a normal atheist all the time, but at some point he said that the ancient Greek Gods are "existing entities" (his exact words). He also said that he doesn't believe in them in the "religious way", but he thinks they exist. Since on the panel there were also other atheists, orthodox priests etc, it was great fun to see their reactions :D