Hamas ready to accept Israel's right to exist, ammend charter

[Thunder]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1263147942240&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

well...this is an interesting turn of events.

not sure what to make of it.

[Skeptic]

Must be the same as the PLO "amendment" of its charter: a tactical move to get Israeli withdrawals before re-starting the terrorist war.

[Thunder]

Must be the same as the PLO "amendment" of its charter: a tactical move to get Israeli withdrawals before re-starting the terrorist war.

translation: "Arabs cannot be trusted. But if you say 'Jews cannot be trusted', you are being an anti-Semite."

[Tailgater]

They are just taking away another internet talking point. Now, no one can say "it says so in the charter".

[Doctor Evil]

It seems that Dweik is already denying the story (http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=255890):
Dweik told Ma'an, however, that he offered no such recognition of Israel's "right to exist on Palestinian land," as was reported, and moreover, that he told Abrahams the PLO had made a mistake by nullifying its charter.

"The PLO canceled its charter, and Palestinians achieved nothing," he said. "This is Hamas' stance and the opinion of any Hamas leader regarding the nullification of [its] charter."

Dweik said the talks was held at Abrahams' request, and came within a series of meetings with the PLC's leadership with international officials, delegations and other news outlets. There was nothing unusual about Abrahams' visit, he said.


Another case of a western visitor hearing only what he wanted to hear? That would be my guess. (The Jerusalem Post reporter is a good reporter, but I am not sure whether he got to interview Dweik, or got his story though Abrahams.)

[ZARDOZ]

Now let's see if Aziz Dwaik can convince the entire Hamas leadership outside of the West Bank about kissing and making up with Israel. I won't hold my breath since that's like a low-level subordinate of Bin Laden saying "we give up America let's shake." ;)

[Ziggurat]

translation: "Arabs cannot be trusted.

I think it's rather racist of you to equate Arabs with terrorist organizations.

[Skeptic]

translation: "Arabs cannot be trusted."

Nope. But Hamas and the PLO, two notorious terrorist organizations whose goal is Israel's destruction, certainly cannot be trusted.

[Thunder]

I think it's rather racist of you to equate Arabs with terrorist organizations.

it was not a translation of my words.

[Thunder]

Nope. But Hamas and the PLO, two notorious terrorist organizations whose goal is Israel's destruction, certainly cannot be trusted.

I trust Hamas and the PLO just as much as I trust Lieberman and Yisrael B'Teinu.

[Ziggurat]

it was not a translation of my words.

And yet, it's closer to what you said than your characterization of Skeptic's statement was. Why am I not surprised that the irony was lost on you?

[Thunder]

And yet, it's closer to what you said than your characterization of Skeptic's statement was. Why am I not surprised that the irony was lost on you?

I completely understand what you were getting at. I however believe that my translation is what Skeptic was trying to say....in much more polite terms.

[Ziggurat]

I completely understand what you were getting at. I however believe that my translation is what Skeptic was trying to say....in much more polite terms.

But it clearly isn't, as he explicitly refuted your accusation. I'm sorry, parky, but you don't get to invent secret meanings for what other people say.

[Thunder]

There is a very common belief among some Israelis and some Zionist Jews, that Arabs simply cannot be trusted. I believe this is reflected in Skeptic's post.

[Ziggurat]

There is a very common belief among some Israelis and some Zionist Jews, that Arabs simply cannot be trusted. I believe this is reflected in Skeptic's post.

Because you can read his mind? Sorry, parky, your excuses don't wash. There is nothing in the post to indicate anything of the sort. Hell, your own statement in this thread about not trusting either Hamas or the PLO suggests that your own views aren't too far from what he said. So why on earth are you ascribing motives to his post which are not in his post and which he explicitly denied in his subsequent response? This is becoming nothing more than an ad hominem against Skeptic. Whatever you've got against him for past disagreements, whatever differences you may have with him on other topics, you've really got no leg to stand on here, parky. So man up already and admit that your accusation was baseless.

[Thunder]

So man up already and admit that your accusation was baseless.

I have been reading Skeptic's posts for more than a year and a half. I believe my interpretation was fair and accurate.

[Ziggurat]

I have been reading Skeptic's posts for more than a year and a half. I believe my interpretation was fair and accurate.

In other words, you're calling him a liar since he specifically denied the interpretation you put forward. And you don't believe what he wrote, based on... what he wrote. Um... yeah. Sorry, still not buying it.

When Skeptic tells me he has one opinion, and you tell me he really has a different one, I'm going to believe Skeptic, not you. Because, really, he knows, you're just guessing. Or more colloquially, you're pulling stuff out of your ***.

[NWO Sentryman]

well, it could be like Scientology's "dropping" of fair game. It may not be a de jure policy, but it would become a De Facto policy

[Eyeron]

In other words, you're calling him a liar since he specifically denied the interpretation you put forward. And you don't believe what he wrote, based on... what he wrote. Um... yeah. Sorry, still not buying it.

When Skeptic tells me he has one opinion, and you tell me he really has a different one, I'm going to believe Skeptic, not you. Because, really, he knows, you're just guessing. Or more colloquially, you're pulling stuff out of your ***.

:bigclap

[Thunder]

In other words, you're calling him a liar since he specifically denied the interpretation you put forward.

no, I am not calling him a liar.

that is YOU interpretation.

:D

[Ziggurat]

no, I am not calling him a liar.

that is YOU interpretation.

:D

You are claiming that Skeptic meant something other than what he actually said. I am claiming that you meant what you said. Can you spot the difference? Or will you just flail about some more?

[Thunder]

You are claiming that Skeptic meant something other than what he actually said. I am claiming that you meant what you said. Can you spot the difference? Or will you just flail about some more?


I am not calling him a flat-out liar. There are degrees to deceit.

;)

[portlandatheist]

translation: "Arabs cannot be trusted....

I trust Hamas and the PLO just as much as I trust Lieberman and Yisrael B'Teinu.
Translation: Jews cannot be trusted :rolleyes:

[Ziggurat]

I am not calling him a flat-out liar. There are degrees to deceit.

That's just sad, parky. :nope:

[Skeptic]

But it clearly isn't, as he explicitly refuted your accusation. I'm sorry, parky, but you don't get to invent secret meanings for what other people say.

Well, actually, he does. He just doesn't get other people to believe those secret meanings.

As the immortal saying in A Fish Called Wanda was, monkeys do read philosophy -- they just don't understand it.

[Skeptic]

well, it could be like Scientology's "dropping" of fair game. It may not be a de jure policy, but it would become a De Facto policy

Possibly, but the "how could you possibly believe" rule applies. I find it hard to take seriously people who throw their co-terrorists our of buildings to their death in vicious clan war in Gaza to really mean it when they say, "look, we'll still say we want to kill you all, but we don't really mean it".

I mean, suppose you just saw a thug in the street slit the throat of another thug, while lobbing hand grenades into your house. Would you believe him if he then knocked on your door and said, "look, I must say I want to break into your house and kill you and your family, but that's just something I say, I don't really mean it"?

[bigjelmapro]

This is almost of laughable as Palestinian human rights activists calling out for an independent investigation about the 2006 war in regards to Hamas.

Just another 'rope a dope' (John Bolton made this stick) tactic against Western countries. Same concept used ad nauseam by Iran.

[MaGZ]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1263147942240&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

well...this is an interesting turn of events.

not sure what to make of it.

I'm really disappointed in Hamas. Oh well, there is always Hezbollah.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I'm really disappointed in Hamas. Oh well, there is always Hezbollah.

Note to first time lurkers, this was not sarcasm.

[fuelair]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1263147942240&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

well...this is an interesting turn of events.

not sure what to make of it.

As for me, I think I'll not hold my breath on this.:)

[Sporanox]

Note to first time lurkers, this was not sarcasm.

...gah. :jaw-dropp

[r0ast_p0tat0es]

Bethlehem – Ma'an – Palestinian Legislative Council speaker Aziz Dweik on Thursday denied reports by Israeli news outlets that he said on Wednesday Israel has a right to exist.

Link (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=165483)

It certainly looks like someone can't be trusted... I dunno whether it's the Jerusalem Post or Aziz Dweik, but either way... They still want to utterly destroy Israel and everything non-Muslim living in it.

[Darth Rotor]

If Hamas decides to recognize Israel, and its right to exist, Hamas or other Pals risk being attacked Osama Bin Laden and his friends. Do they really want to go there?

"The message delivered to you through the plane of the heroic warrior Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was a confirmation of the previous messages sent by the heroes of the Sept. 11," he said. "America will never dream of security unless we will have it in reality in Palestine," he added.

"God willing, our raids on you will continue as long as your support for the Israelis continues."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35042867/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa

[ZARDOZ]

How many times did Arafat promise to something in english, such as dismantle the Palestinian militias, while promising the exact opposite in arabic? Was it one thousand times or two thousand times? I kinda lost track.

The core of Hamas's ideology is the liberation of Palestine, and no peace with Israel. Somehow I find it beyond comprehension that Hamas has done a complete 180. It just doesn't wash.

[Eyeron]

It's just a tactic. Whenever terrorist organizations like these are weakened they will proclaim they want peace and they mean it too. BUT they will only have pace just long enough to regather their strength and then they'll be on the attack again.

In truth the smart thing to do is when they declare peace is to just agree with them and then when they're not expecting it, attack them to wipe them out. Because they are just not truly interested in peace. Sure, it'll look bad to the pacifists and other peace loving people, but they are incapable of understanding that terrorist groups like these are just not interested in true peace or living with their neighbors.

[bigjelmapro]

Its called 'Hudna' in Arabic.

However, the PLO has been utilizing this tactic for different reasons than say groups like the ANC and IRA. Extortion has been the PLO's tactic from the beginning even with a number of viable solutions on the table between the two conflicting parties. Similar solutions that groups like the ANC and IRA sought for that eventually ended their respective conflicts.

[NWO Sentryman]

Like i said before, it'd be like Scientology's "Dropping" of Fair Game.