Raising the Nitrogen level of topsoil

[Thunder]

ok folks, got another work question for ya.

what kind and how much fertilizer should be used to raise 300 cubic yards of topsoil, 13 ppm?

we have a Nitrogen level of 12 ppm..and we need it to be 25.

come on JREF!!! (if you guys don't come through I have to consult Cornell Cooperative Extension)

[Thunder]

nobody???

:(

[Howie Felterbush]

Try this.

http://www.tulsamastergardeners.org/blackbox/fertcalc.htm

It's for turf, but it might help.

[Howie Felterbush]

This one may be better.

http://www.math.umn.edu/~white/personal/fertcalc.html

[arthwollipot]

nobody???

:(If I remember, I can ask someone when I get home tonight.

[Thunder]

all good calculators, but i need to recommend a fertilizer type, and i dont know what kind to use.

all help is appreciated though. thanks guys.

[Howie Felterbush]

Use something like this...

http://www.amazon.com/Espoma-Organic-Traditions-Nitrogen-Fertilizer/dp/B000BZ8HMC

This stuff is all nitrogen, as far as your soil is concerned. I would advise adding this much nitrogen with caution, as it may cause "burning" of existing plants. If you're just mixing it into topsoil with no plants in place, this shouldn't be a problem. You might get a hold of your county extension office for more info. They're usually pretty helpful.

[Thunder]

Urea??? yikes!!!

:)

[Old man]

ok folks, got another work question for ya.

what kind and how much fertilizer should be used to raise 300 cubic yards of topsoil, 13 ppm?

we have a Nitrogen level of 12 ppm..and we need it to be 25.

come on JREF!!! (if you guys don't come through I have to consult Cornell Cooperative Extension)Sorry, parky, I work for Cornell.

You're not giving us enough info.
What's the per unit weight of your soil?
Are you planning to mix it into the soil before spreading, or after?
I'm assuming here that you're doing some kind of landscaping project, and you're pre-mixing.

'Topsoil' runs about 2000 to 2500 (or more) lbs per yard, so you need to add at least .026 lbs of N per yard. Use any N fertilizer that's available to you (I'd use urea). Divide .026 by the analysis of the fertilizer that you're using to get lbs per yard for that fert. (.026 / .46 = .057.)
.057 lbs * 300 yards = 17 lbs of urea.
If you use ammonium nitrate, you'll need 23 lbs.

[Thunder]

Sorry, parky, I work for Cornell.

You're not giving us enough info.
What's the per unit weight of your soil?
Are you planning to mix it into the soil before spreading, or after?
I'm assuming here that you're doing some kind of landscaping project, and you're pre-mixing.

'Topsoil' runs about 2000 to 2500 (or more) lbs per yard, so you need to add at least .026 lbs of N per yard. Use any N fertilizer that's available to you (I'd use urea). Divide .026 by the analysis of the fertilizer that you're using to get lbs per yard for that fert. (.026 / .46 = .057.)
.057 lbs * 300 yards = 17 lbs of urea.
If you use ammonium nitrate, you'll need 23 lbs.

the soil is already spread, and plants are already in it.

i talked 2 our landscape construction people today, and they said raising the nitrogen level is a lot more complicated than i thought.

though, lets say it was just a 300 cubic yard mound of fresh topsoil, with a known nitrogen deficiency. is there a basic equation i could use?

is your above calculation for square yards or cubic yards?

thanx for your help.

[CORed]

ok folks, got another work question for ya.

what kind and how much fertilizer should be used to raise 300 cubic yards of topsoil, 13 ppm?

we have a Nitrogen level of 12 ppm..and we need it to be 25.

come on JREF!!! (if you guys don't come through I have to consult Cornell Cooperative Extension)

Must resist temptation to post image of giant manure pile.

[Old man]

Hi parky. Since it's already spread, just figure out the volume of soil spread at each site, and add the appropriate amount of fert. for each location.

i.e. - If you've spread soil 1 foot deep over an area of 270 square feet, you used 10 cubic feet of your soil, so you need to apply .77 lbs of ammonium nitrate. You'll want to incorporate it (even if that means just 'watering it in'), of course. If you pH is above 6.5, you can get away with ammonium sulfate, (N = ~ 20%), but with plants in the ground, you might want to use a source of N that's in the 10 to 15% range.

ETA: I replied to your PM before I looked at this thread.

Raising the N level is a little more complicated than this, but it should put you in the ballpark.

ETA x 2: I don't mean to be rude or insulting, and this isn't directed at you, but can't anybody do simple arithmetic anymore? :confused: ;)

[Thunder]

Hi parky. Since it's already spread, just figure out the volume of soil spread at each site, and add the appropriate amount of fert. for each location.


you da man

[Old man]

...i talked 2 our landscape construction people today, and they said raising the nitrogen level is a lot more complicated than i thought... In my experience, when someone says "It's too complicated to explain" he mean one of three things -

"I don't want to waste my time talking to you"

or

"I don't think you're smart enough to understand"

or (and this is almost always the case)

"I don't understand it, myself."

[Old man]

you da man Thanks. :D

[At In To]

What kind of plants are you growing? It obviously wouldn't help now with plants in the ground, but in the future you could grow some legumes. The nodules on the roots contain bacteria and will fix nitrogen and incorporate it into the soil. It's common to see legumes used in crop rotations where soil is easily depleted of nitrogen.

[Thunder]

im not sure what is planted there.

[!Kaggen]

ok folks, got another work question for ya.

what kind and how much fertilizer should be used to raise 300 cubic yards of topsoil, 13 ppm?

we have a Nitrogen level of 12 ppm..and we need it to be 25.

come on JREF!!! (if you guys don't come through I have to consult Cornell Cooperative Extension)

Found this a bit late, hope this puts some light on the subject though.

Firstly any measure of nitrogen currently in the soil would be of the stable fraction mostly in organic form (living animals/plants, dead plant/animal debris, complex molecules such as humic/fulvic acids).

Then when calculating how much nitrogen and in what form to apply it is important to know
1. What you are going to grow.
2. What is the Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) of the soil.
3. What is the pH of the soil.
4. What is the percentage of Ca, Mg, K, Na, H of the CEC .
5. What is the bulk density of the soil.
6. What is the water holding capacity of the soil.

These factors all effect the efficacy of the nitrogen applied in various ways.

On a practical level the availability and cost of sources of nitrogen also play a role.

With these factors all in mind.

If you want to increase the ppm of stable soil nitrogen to 25ppm from 12 ppm I recommend that you first measure item 2 above and make the necessary corrections to achieve this percentage ratio (75%Ca, 15%Mg, 5%K, <1%Na, <1%H) of the CEC.

This will go a long way in addressing any soil pH problems as well and make sure the nitrogen you apply becomes available.

The next step is to add a source of stable nitrogen such as well made compost which has approximately 15000ppm stable nitrogen (15kg/1metric ton). If I assume your soil has a bulk density of 1.2g/cm³. Then you need to add 3.6kg N or 240kg compost.

If you need to have 25ppm nitrogen available during the growing period of the plant this is a different sum.
Since only 1/3rd of the stable nitrogen will be available by microbial decomposition during the average growing season you need to add 1.16tons compost.

Alternatively you could trade off between adding some compost and supplementing the balance during the growing season with more available forms of nitrogen. I recommend Ammonium Sulphate as it has less detrimental impact on the soil biology. You should split the application of the Ammonium Sulphate at least 3 times, spread out over the growing season.
So if you applied 250kg of compost to start with you would need an extra
22kg Ammonium Sulphate which I would split into 8kg,7kg,7kg applications.

Good luck

[pchams]

Plant peas.