Religion brings Greater Happiness??

[zer0vector]

I don't know if this article has been discussed before, but I am in a discussion about it with a rather vehement believer:

http://webcenter.health.webmd.netscape.com/content/article/78/95776.htm

If it has been a topic previously, please let me know.

The only information I've really been able to find is that the same researcher found religiosity correlated with schizotypal traits :

http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/openurl.asp?genre=article&issn=1367-4676&volume=5&issue=1&spage=73

http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/openurl.asp?genre=article&issn=1367-4676&volume=4&issue=1&spage=63

[triadboy]

It's normal Christmas fare. Religion makes you happier, amazing miracle stories, angel stories, Jesus' mother, who never got laid, appears in someones breakfast cereal - it's all the same. Hogwash.

[c4ts]

Religion brings a sort of lesser, superficial kind of group activity happiness to keep you going back to church every Sunday. To those who think there is greater philisophical satisfaction to it, you can find that kind of happiness in your own life no matter what you do, religious or otherwise. You certainly don't have to go to any church for it.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by c4ts
Religion brings a sort of lesser, superficial kind of group activity happiness to keep you going back to church every Sunday. To those who think there is greater philisophical satisfaction to it, you can find that kind of happiness in your own life no matter what you do, religious or otherwise. You certainly don't have to go to any church for it.

???

Are you the happiness expert or something?

And how do you measure happiness?

And what is the universal standard for happiness?

If anything it is merely your belief that religion brings out a "lesser, superficial" happiness, since you can't possibly know that to be a true fact.

If that belief makes you happy...

You can find happiness anywhere, in anything.

Is it possible that religion brings greater happiness? I think it may be more than possible, but that's just my opinion.

-Elliot

[Lord Emsworth]

Yes, it can make you happier (whatever that means)

but once you know how it works, that it's mainly a makebelief - it becomes a very thin, unsatisfying thing.


And I am pretty happy not to fall for that :p

[Tricky]

Yes, religion can make you happier. So can a lobotomy, and for the same reason. They both keep you from having to think about certain things.

[iain]

During my (short) period of being strongly religious I was very unhappy. I wouldn't say that religion caused my unhappiness but it didn't help either.

I became happier when I drifted away from religion and have been happily non-religious for many years.

Of course, this is anecdotal, but it would be interesting to know how the "I'm happier since I found religion" and "I'm happier since I lost religion" anecdotes stack up.

[triadboy]

If anything it is merely your belief that religion brings out a "lesser, superficial" happiness, since you can't possibly know that to be a true fact.


Do you remember as a parent watching your children be truly 'happy' on Christmas morning because of Santa Claus? An experienced atheist looks at xianity the same way.

[Keneke]

Originally posted by elliotfc


???

Are you the happiness expert or something?

And how do you measure happiness?

And what is the universal standard for happiness?

If anything it is merely your belief that religion brings out a "lesser, superficial" happiness, since you can't possibly know that to be a true fact.

If that belief makes you happy...

You can find happiness anywhere, in anything.

Is it possible that religion brings greater happiness? I think it may be more than possible, but that's just my opinion.

-Elliot

First you question him on being a happiness expert, not knowing a standard for happiness, then you go on to assert that religion might bring greater happiness. You didn't even define happiness yourself! You did the same thing c4ts did.

So, let's define happiness. Is it a result of dopamine and adrenaline? Can it be measured? Heck if I know, and until we agree on some sort of standard (impossible, I know) it's hopeless.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth
Yes, it can make you happier (whatever that means)

but once you know how it works, that it's mainly a makebelief - it becomes a very thin, unsatisfying thing.


And I am pretty happy not to fall for that :p

It works in many ways, not in just one way. Like anything.

If you choose not to fall for a perception that is an excellent choice. I would not fall for the perception either.

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Tricky
Yes, religion can make you happier. So can a lobotomy, and for the same reason. They both keep you from having to think about certain things.

What things? How can religion keep a person from thinking about things? Stop blaming things like *religion* and blame people for refusing to think about things. People make choices, not philosophies or the like.

-Elliot

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by elliotfc


What things? How can religion keep a person from thinking about things? Stop blaming things like *religion* and blame people for refusing to think about things. People make choices, not philosophies or the like.

-Elliot

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by elliotfc


What things? How can religion keep a person from thinking about things? Stop blaming things like *religion* and blame people for refusing to think about things. People make choices, not philosophies or the like.

-Elliot

[epepke]

Originally posted by zer0vector
I don't know if this article has been discussed before, but I am in a discussion about it with a rather vehement believer:


:con2: Probably true. So does heroin, only the sexual side-effects aren't as severe.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by elliotfc


What things? How can religion keep a person from thinking about things? Stop blaming things like *religion* and blame people for refusing to think about things. People make choices, not philosophies or the like.

-Elliot

To be accepted, one must conform to the group's way of thinking. Rebellion of thought it usually grounded, frowned upon, ridiculed, so a person will supress their thought process. So many things in religion hinge on belief; if too many people question, it makes them uncomfortable. Choosing to follow the philosophy set by a human does not equal happiness or unhappiness.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by triadboy


Do you remember as a parent watching your children be truly 'happy' on Christmas morning because of Santa Claus? An experienced atheist looks at xianity the same way.

But it wasn't Santa Claus, was it? Rather, it was the receiving of presents that made the child happy. In other words, if there were no presents, do you think Santa Claus could possibly have the same effect?

Of course that truly happy Christmas morning feeling was not true happiness...it was a temporary childhood joy, like winning a competitive card game or the NCAA office pool as an adult perhaps.

I suppose I should define my concept of happiness, and it probably differs from most of yours. I see happiness as sustained contentment/joy. It's a combination of expectation and perspective I think, as well as having an understanding of the world that is coherent and hopeful. Happy people treat their neighbors with love and respect and their values dictate that they be charitable and wish the best for everyone.

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Keneke


First you question him on being a happiness expert, not knowing a standard for happiness, then you go on to assert that religion might bring greater happiness. You didn't even define happiness yourself! You did the same thing c4ts did.

So, let's define happiness. Is it a result of dopamine and adrenaline? Can it be measured? Heck if I know, and until we agree on some sort of standard (impossible, I know) it's hopeless.

Right. I'm not a happiness expert. I only wondered how he could make such a definitive statement on happiness.

I don't know if happiness can be measured. I think it is detectable (sort of) however, like sincerity is detectable or enthusiasm is detectable. It's far from an exact science.

c4ts seems to have his own personal standard of happiness, and that is fine. I just wanted to point out that it is a personal standard. I have my own personal standard but I don't make to big a deal out of it (I think I sort of describe it one post above).

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Suezoled


To be accepted, one must conform to the group's way of thinking. Rebellion of thought it usually grounded, frowned upon, ridiculed, so a person will supress their thought process. So many things in religion hinge on belief; if too many people question, it makes them uncomfortable. Choosing to follow the philosophy set by a human does not equal happiness or unhappiness.

Right. It is the *group* and not the religion. Big difference.

Some religious groups allow for a wider way of thinking than other religious groups. Such is the nature of the group, and being a part of a group. You have to share at least 1 or 2, if not 10,000 or 20,000 ideas in common. How many varies from group to group, and from religious group to religious group.

Of course religion hinges on belief. Questioning the belief often makes me uncomfortable, but for other reasons than you might suspect. The discomfort often lies with a misunderstanding of premises, or the posession of different definitions.

I think happiness is often a choice, and it has a lot to do with the worldview you possess.

-Elliot

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by elliotfc


(snipped)
I think happiness is often a choice, and it has a lot to do with the worldview you possess.

-Elliot

That's a real nice slam to the physiologically depressed there.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by elliotfc


Right. It is the *group* and not the religion. Big difference.

(snipped)

-Elliot

*sighs* and WHO invented the religion, and the belief?

[Suggestologist]

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth
Yes, it can make you happier (whatever that means)

but once you know how it works, that it's mainly a makebelief - it becomes a very thin, unsatisfying thing.


And I am pretty happy not to fall for that :p

Obviously, that's only because you have fallen for the belief/perception that once understood, makebelieve things must be very thin and unsatisfying.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Suezoled


That's a real nice slam to the physiologically depressed there.

I said happiness is often a choice. To some people it isn't a choice. Just like if I say "can't you see", I'm not slamming blind people.

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Suezoled


*sighs* and WHO invented the religion, and the belief?

Well people of course. Religions didn't invent themselves.

-Elliot

[Wudang]

For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
Ecclesiastes. 1.18

So if religion brings greater happiness it's because .........?

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by Wudang
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
Ecclesiastes. 1.18

So if religion brings greater happiness it's because .........?

It offers perspective, helps you take the good with the bad. I mean for some people.

-Elliot

[daenku32]

I find that Religious people like to make non-Religious people unhappy. And they do it while claiming to be righteous. To them, being happy without a Religion is abomination.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by daenku32
I find that Religious people like to make non-Religious people unhappy. And they do it while claiming to be righteous. To them, being happy without a Religion is abomination.

I find that non-religious people like to do the same....

What word is missing....

SOME.

Why do you speak in absolutes about this? There is a diversity in religious people, trust me.

-Elliot