Homeopathy and the Challenge

[Prester John]

Could someone provide me with a link to confirmation that Homeopathy is allowed to partake in the challenge. Homeopaths would say they do not have "'psychic, supernatural or paranormal' ability." so i require confirmation they are elligable for the challenge.
Thanks

PJ

[geni]

From the BBC
The Challenge

Sceptic James Randi is so convinced that homeopathy will not work, that he has offered $1m to anyone who can provide convincing evidence of its effects. For the first time in the programme's history, Horizon conducts its own scientific experiment, to try and win his money. If they succeed, they will not only be $1m richer - they will also force scientists to rethink some of their fundamental beliefs


http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml

There is also a mention in the couple of the comentries but I don't have time to find them right now.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by geni
There is also a mention in the couple of the comentries but I don't have time to find them right now. Try 22nd August 2003 (http://www.randi.org/jr/082203.html). The salient passage is....can the applicant differentiate between homeopathic and non-homeopathic materials? .... the determination can be done by any means: chemical, physical, optical, biological (in vivo or in vitro), using infrared, ultraviolet, polarized, high-intensity, or pulsed light, conductivity or electrochemical means, Tarot cards, or a crystal ball.This is the statement that got Rouser so steamed up because it occurs in connection with some stuff about airport security scanners deactivating the remedies - which I think from memory Anna doesn't believe in anyway.

However, I don't think there's any dispute that the basic challenge is to differentiate between the homoeopathically prepared remedy, at an ultramolar potency, and the stock diluent.

Randi forgot to add "dowsing" in his list of possible methods - which is odd, because some homoeopaths claim to be able to determine the correct remedy for a case by dowsing for it. Saves all that tedious repertorisation, you know.

Rolfe.

[walthrup48]

"A would-be applicant has written me, puzzled about the fact that I place homeopathic claims into the "paranormal" class, for purposes of the JREF challenge. I explained to him as follows:

Homeopathic claims are paranormal claims, for these six reasons of similarity and the close parallels they illustrate:

1. Supporters claim that the phenomena are real, but no real evidence exists to verify that claim.

2. The phenomena are said to "work" by means that are not possible, based on what we already know with great certainty, about the real world.

3. The evidence for the phenomena presented is anecdotal, not scientific, and none of the "scientific" findings made by supporters have been independently replicated.

4. When attempted independent replications of the phenomena fail, supporters invoke special conditions and exceptions for their claims, and often state that these cannot be tested by "ordinary" science.

5. Supporters of the claims invoke such words as, "vibrations," memory," "quantum," "spiritual," and "infinite," without knowledge of, or respect for, the actual meanings of such terms.

6. The claimed discovery is of such a nature and scope, that if true, it would have radically changed the face of science, our way of life, and our perception of the real world: that has not happened.

So, homeopathic claims are paranormal claims, as are claims of "free energy" or perpetual motion."
Source: http://www.randi.org/jr/051603.html

[geni]

Originally posted by Rolfe
Randi forgot to add "dowsing" in his list of possible methods - which is odd, because some homoeopaths claim to be able to determine the correct remedy for a case by dowsing for it. Saves all that tedious repertorisation, you know

Suprisingly someone has done some resurch on this one


McCarney R, Fisher P, Spink F, Flint G, van Haselen R.

A randomized double-blind trial was conducted to determine whether six dowsing homeopaths were able to distinguish between Bryonia in a 12c potency and placebo by use of dowsing alone. The homeopathic medicine Bryonia was correctly identified in 48.1% of bottle pairs (n=156; 95% confidence interval 40.2%, 56.0%; P=0.689). These results, wholly negative, add to doubts whether dowsing in this context can yield objective information.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11934908&dopt=Abstract

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by JimTheBrit
Homeopathic claims are paranormal claims, for these six reasons of similarity and the close parallels they illustrate:

....So, homeopathic claims are paranormal claims, as are claims of "free energy" or perpetual motion."
Source: http://www.randi.org/jr/051603.html Thank you, Jim, that's a better quote than the one I came up with, and explains it more clearly.

Also thanks to Geni - I actually googled for that link to the McCartney paper before I posted, but I couldn't find it amid all the plethora of woo-woo pages mentioning homoeopathy and dowsing in the same breath.

I will make a note.

Rolfe.