We're So Much Safer Now

[subgenius]

that we've spent all that money here on Domestic Security (I refuse to use the term "Homeland"), and Iraq, and passed the Patriot Act.

"Park Police Bomb Their Terrorism Test
By Richard Leiby
Tuesday, January 13, 2004; Page C01
In broad daylight on Sept. 11, 2003, somebody deposited what could have been a "dirty bomb" at the Washington Monument. U.S. Park Police never noticed.

It wasn't a real bomb, just a suspicious-looking black plastic bag stuffed with garbage. And the culprits weren't terrorists, but investigators from the Interior Department's Office of Inspector General, out to demonstrate the monument's vulnerability on that infamous anniversary.

As documented in photos and a memo obtained by The Reliable Source, the feds left the bag at the rear of the obelisk for 20 minutes, then moved it near a security checkpoint where tourists lined up to enter the landmark. "Again, the unidentified bag sat there, undisrupted and unnoticed, for roughly 15 minutes," wrote Inspector General Earl E. Devaney in the memo, citing his "grave concerns for the security and public safety at these facilities."

No Park Police could be seen on patrol, except for one in an unmarked car who "appeared to be sound asleep," Devaney wrote.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11312-2004Jan12.html

[Tmy]

The capitol police are a bunch of big fat no nothing slobs who managed to score a sweet govt job.

[epepke]

Originally posted by subgenius
As documented in photos and a memo obtained by The Reliable Source, the feds left the bag at the rear of the obelisk for 20 minutes, then moved it near a security checkpoint where tourists lined up to enter the landmark. "Again, the unidentified bag sat there, undisrupted and unnoticed, for roughly 15 minutes," wrote Inspector General Earl E. Devaney in the memo, citing his "grave concerns for the security and public safety at these facilities."

Someone might blow up the Washington Monument?

There isn't a smilie for this, but if there were, it would involve a reciprocal motion of my clenched hand over an imaginary representation of the sixth major protruberance from my torso.

[Tmy]

I always figued a dirty bomb would be bigger and heavier than any trashbag could handle.

I think were going overboard with this sillyness. Go forbid you forget your backpack anywere near a govt building. Automaticlly the bomb squad is called out and 1/2 the city is closed.

[DaChew]

Of course you can't count on the park police. They're the ones that botched the investigation when Clinton had Vince Foster killed.

[Luke T.]

I drive my car through a major metropolitan area twice a day and nobody ever notices! Why, I could have half a ton of stuffed black plastic bags in there!

But I'm crafty, see. I keep my road atlas well out of sight.

[spejic]

The Park Police have had budget problems for a while. Chief Teresa Chambers said so a month ago to the media. The Bush administration then showed their commitment to safety and support for their appointee by suspending her.

http://www.rcfp.org/news/2003/1211parkpo.html
http://slate.msn.com/id/2093330

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by epepke


Someone might blow up the Washington Monument?

There isn't a smilie for this, but if there were, it would involve a reciprocal motion of my clenched hand over an imaginary representation of the sixth major protruberance from my torso.

This one? http://www.freakhole.com/forums/html/emoticons/tosser.gif

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Luke T.
I drive my car through a major metropolitan area twice a day and nobody ever notices! Why, I could have half a ton of stuffed black plastic bags in there!

But I'm crafty, see. I keep my road atlas well out of sight.

And your almanac, I hope.

[phildonnia]

Here in Sac'to, I often see unattended cars parked in the red zone outside the federal building downtown. Saw a moving van once even.

They did put some concrete rails around the building lately, and the entrance to the parking area is guarded by this guy who leans back in his kiosk so far that his eyes are just above the level of the window. He waves at people as they enter.

[evildave]

Well, the only thing more suspicious than a big plastic bag sitting out in most parks would be a big plastic bag that somehow fit in the trash can.

This isn't a security issue: it's a sanitation issue. If a park is big and important and has a lot of people visiting, it should have the trash collected more often than once a week.

And if a terrorist had concealed a "dirty bomb" in a trash bag, it would only have to detonate in a trash can that would probably blow the nasty stuff UP where it can spread further.

Therefore, police should be rummaging in trash cans: they're not doing their jobs if they don't.

[richardm]

Originally posted by evildave
Therefore, police should be rummaging in trash cans: they're not doing their jobs if they don't.

Indeed. Through the 70s and 80s many British cities - London springs to mind - had their rubbish bins (i.e. trash cans) removed, in order to remove the possibility that someone could hide a bomb in one.

Of course, this turned the cities into one big rubbish tip, and didn't seem to deflect the bombers much. But there it is.

[The Don]

Of course we cannot admit that the only ways of stopping a dedicated bomber are to:

- seal off the area (London's ring of steel, the Israeli fence)
- know about the attack in detail and in advance

Dropping off the bag would not simulate the second, I suspect there was no planning over thh Internet.

It's all about making people feel protected 'cos there's little you can actually do. Window dressing, no more unless we want to live in police states

[sol4590]

Quite right, Don. Every time one of these news articles come out that exploit another weakness in the security system, it only serves to prove the point that it is impossible to stop terrorism using security guards. Since 9/11 I've tried to point out to people that the best way to prevent terrorism is to not piss off the people who would perpetrate it.

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Tmy
The capitol police are a bunch of big fat no nothing slobs who managed to score a sweet govt job.

Dolt,

The article was about the Park Police, not the Capitol Police. I wonder if you even have an inkling about how many police agencies operate in DC and what their missions are. Well? Any evidence for your vindictive, or did you park in that lot marked "permit only" on Capitol Hill, and are pissed off they towed you??

-z

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

I see more and more criticisms of public servants and emergency response workers in many jurisdictions in North America

budgets for city police are slashed; budgets for fire protection cut back; health care budgets slashed, firing of individuals that speak up about the slashing of budgets, public works facilities/ city utilities can't upgrade because their budgets are slashed

Fire departments, police and those in health care in many jurisdictions are expected to respond with efficiency and effectiveness after the budget cuts, with reduced personel, less training, less equipment/old equipment that is not maintainenced as much,

when public servants and emergency response personel or management bring up concerns they are called whiners and alarmists

some public service jobs are contracted out to the lowest private sector bidders who offer their employees minimum wage and no benefits in high stress demanding jobs

some part time nurses and emts are taking an additional part time position at another health care facility or a McJob to make ends meet and they don't have benefits because they are part time, they are overworked, over tired, transmitting bacteria from one health facitlity to another, health care facilities are failing to meet sterilisation regulations

Is it possible that the Park Police in this example are lazy or incompetent? Yep. As we all know from that often verbalised generalisation, most people in public sector jobs are lazy and incompetant and have it made, have it easy. Public servants are the bane of taxpayers; they are overpayed and excell at being inefficient.

Give the police, health care, and firefighting departments less money say the conservative think-tanks and tax-payer associations; that will force them to become more efficient. Too many people are employed in the public sector, cut budgets! reduce the number of people! Look at how much money was saved by cutting back the number of full time positions! Imagine how much more money will be saved if we cut more full time positions! Lets do it!

All the budget cuts look great on paper. Impressive surplusses are touted as signs of success and the deficits reduce. Taxpayers are happy as taxes are not raised and practical, fair user fees are implemented.

The response time is up of emergency response? No big deal, the emergency response managers must improve efficiency or there will be threats of further cuts or we fire the managers.

Hospitals are failing sterilisation regs? No big deal fire mangers, replace them with more efficient people that will take on the challenges.

Orders for infrastructure upgrades expansion and equipment maintainence? We can defer these, as these improvemtnst and maintanence will not fit in with the budget plan.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by rikzilla


Dolt,

The article was about the Park Police, not the Capitol Police. I wonder if you even have an inkling about how many police agencies operate in DC and what their missions are. Well? Any evidence for your vindictive, or did you park in that lot marked "permit only" on Capitol Hill, and are pissed off they towed you??

-z

Park Plice or Capitol Police. Same difference. Their both alike.

No I didnt get towed, but Ive seem them in action a few times and I wasnt impressed.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by PygmyPlaidGiraffe
I see more and more criticisms of public servants and emergency response workers in many jurisdictions in North America

budgets for city police are slashed; budgets for fire protection cut back; health care budgets slashed, firing of individuals that speak up about the slashing of budgets, public works facilities/ city utilities can't upgrade because their budgets are slashed

.

Where do you think all this security spending is going?? TO these Er workers. They are raking it in. Not only that theyve built up such great public good will since 911. They can do no wrong.

Go look up the highest paid public servents in your town city. It'll list a bunch of ER workers. Youd be surpised how much they make.

I cant stand the annual call from the police and or fire depts "retirement fund". Most of these guys make more than me, and have better retirement and benefits packages, which are paid by my taxes.

Teachers are another group. THeyve conviced us all that they are so poor and downtrodden. Screw them. They get paid pretty good considering they work part tim.

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally posted by Tmy
Teachers are another group. THeyve [sic] conviced [sic] us all that they are so poor and downtrodden. Screw them. They get paid pretty good [sic] considering they work part tim [sic].As a student, so apparently did you. ;)

[epepke]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


This one? http://www.freakhole.com/forums/html/emoticons/tosser.gif

EXCELLENT!

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Regnad Kcin
As a student, so apparently did you. ;)

I NEVER LEARNED TO READ!!!! Becuase of that I have developed a resentment of teachers, cops , fireman, MADD, and Scrabble.:p

[Darat]

Originally posted by Tmy
I always figued a dirty bomb would be bigger and heavier than any trashbag could handle.

I think were going overboard with this sillyness. Go forbid you forget your backpack anywere near a govt building. Automaticlly the bomb squad is called out and 1/2 the city is closed.


What I find "silly" about this is the emphasis on a "dirty" bomb! It is an example of the stupidity and focus on the wrong things - a pipe and/or nail bomb is much more likely in such a tourist trap.

For many years in the UK we had the approach of treating any abandoned baggage/package as suspected bomb. Railway stations and so on were often being shutdown because of a "suspect package", you get used to it.

Litter bins etc. were either sealed up or removed from many civic centres again inconvenient but just a sensible precaution that you can live with. (Especially after the Warrington bomb)

All these types of precaution are an annoyance but nowhere near as annoying as the draconian, stupid and ineffectual "anti-terrorist" powers the USA & UK governments have been busily granting themselves since 11th September.