IN Governor- "All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists"

[Psiload]

I guess that means the 9/11 attacks weren't horrific crimes. :rolleyes:

http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/politics/Daniels-talks-candidly-about-his-faith

With Christmas in mind, Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels opened up about his Christian faith.

And atheism leads to brutality. All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists -Stalin and Hitler and Mao and so forth- because it flows very naturally from an idea that there is no judgment and there is nothing other than the brief time we spend on this Earth.

[MarkCorrigan]

It also means that Hitler was an atheist, despite the fact he wasn't. Interesting. I wonder if there's any way to contact the Governor...

[Safe-Keeper]

"Nearly all the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by whites"

Same reasoning.

ETA: oh, and this is why Society Without God should be read by everyone. Or turned into a documentary and viewed by everyone. As an aside, I finally found it in my home town's university library, so now I'm going to finally get to read the whole book myself:).

[P.J. Denyer]

Of course Hitler was an atheist, all the atheists I know would introduce manditory Christian prayer in state schools and 'God is with us' belt buckles for the military. It's on the first page of the Official Atheist Handbook.

[Madalch]

Of course Hitler was an atheist, all the atheists I know would introduce manditory Christian prayer in state schools and 'God is with us' belt buckles for the military. It's on the first page of the Official Atheist Handbook.
The "Gott mit Uns" motto long predated Hitler.

[Safe-Keeper]

To be honest, no one really knows for sure if Hitler was religious or not. There's writings from him indicating both positions, and both atheists and fundamentalists love to quote-mine from them to support their position. Reality is, far as I understand, that no one knows for sure, or that his position changed back and forth throughout the war.

Not that I can blame him. If I thought I had God on my side in a glorious quest to conquer the world, I'd be pretty disillusioned by the time I had my butt kicked at Stalingrad.

[Hokulele]

All the horrific disasters of the past century were committed by this person's god (tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes). I wonder why he forgot to mention this...

[pgwenthold]

To be honest, no one really knows for sure if Hitler was religious or not. There's writings from him indicating both positions, and both atheists and fundamentalists love to quote-mine from them to support their position. Reality is, far as I understand, that no one knows for sure, or that his position changed back and forth throughout the war.

Not that I can blame him. If I thought I had God on my side in a glorious quest to conquer the world, I'd be pretty disillusioned by the time I had my butt kicked at Stalingrad.

The problem with the whole "Hitler was an atheist" nonsense is that, as far as I know, Hitler didn't kill anyone. Not in WW2, at least (he might have as a corporal in WWI). All those murders of jewish people and everyone else were carried out by people not named Adolph Hitler. And there is no way that all of them, or most of them, or even many of them were atheist. They were good, God-fearing Christians who believed that they were doing God's work, as Hitler had told them in Mein Kampf.

Go back to the 9/11 attackers. If it were discovered that Osama Bin Laden is actually an atheist, would that mean that the 9/11 attrocities were not carried out by Muslims?

[ServiceSoon]

Nobody is right all the time. As a lifetime Indiana-ian, I'm willing to forgive him on this one considering the success he's brought Indiana during his last two terms.

There are a lot of things wrong with Mitch's statement. For one, I recall Hitler being a devoted Catholic, for at least a larger portion of his life.

[GreenLines]

I guess that means the 9/11 attacks weren't horrific crimes. :rolleyes:

I guess that means that 9/11 was in 1999. :p

I think this guy is meaning 1900 to 1999. :p

[KingMerv00]

Religion has a near monopoly on political power for thousands of years ----> All sorts of bad things happen ----> Don't blame religion.

Religion's power starts to dip in the 20th century ----> All sorts of bad things happen ----> Blame atheism.

[kmortis]

Paul Jennings Hill was an atheist? That's news to me. And his church.

[Piscivore]

Tell that to the Eskimos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belcher_Islands#The_Belcher_Islands_murders.5B5.5D ).

[KingMerv00]

Tell that to the Eskimos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belcher_Islands#The_Belcher_Islands_murders.5B5.5D ).

Hell, tell that to the entire Middle East.

[Piscivore]

Or the relatives of the followers of Jim Jones.

[Beerina]

And atheism leads to brutality. All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists -Stalin and Hitler and Mao and so forth- because it flows very naturally from an idea that there is no judgment and there is nothing other than the brief time we spend on this Earth

No, it flows from the ease with which "For God" is replaced by "For The People", while leaving everything else pretty much in place.

The West was busy neutralizing religion to, for good reason, keep it out of government so it couldn't be used. Nobody foresaw that the word "god" was really a very minor part of the problem.

[Piscivore]

No, it flows from the ease with which "For God" is replaced by "For The People", while leaving everything else pretty much in place.
Not so much "For The People" as "For Our People". Good, old-fashioned, evolutionary primate tribalism. In other words, "the less someone is like myself, the easier and the more I hate him". Mix that in with "control of finite resources" and you can pretty much explain any conflict ever. The apparent (and ultimately superficial) differences are all just flavouring.

[ponderingturtle]

Or the relatives of the followers of Jim Jones.

Clearly not horrific enough. Also the minor troubles in Rawanda are also not horrific enough I guess.

[Trent Wray]

All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by humans, inefficient immune systems, and natural disasters. And the Octomom.

[realpaladin]

All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by humans, inefficient immune systems, and natural disasters. And the Octomom.

In summary: existence.

[KingMerv00]

Don't forget Bosnia.

[Marduk]

I guess that means the 9/11 attacks weren't horrific crimes. :rolleyes:

well the european colonisation of the Americas which officially is recorded as ending at the first year of the 20th century killed between 2 and 10 million

soooo....... how many atheists were responsible for that ?

and in the 20th century alone, smallpox has killed 300,000,000, who shall we blame for that, who invented the smallpox virus ?

oh yes, that would be God again and of course it has to be his God who was responsible, because he doesn't believe any others exist

hoist by his own petard
:p

[Achán hiNidráne]

Frankly I'm not really surprised at the Governor's bigotry.

I've been through Indiana, several times. One thing I noticed is just how many billboards had Biblical citations, even when they were just advertising bankruptcy lawyers or restaurants. Two of the cousins who accused me of Communism when I came out have settled there. No, I don't expect to find sophisticated, cosmopolitan thinking from a citizen of that state.

Governor Daniels and his constituents can have each other.

[pgwenthold]

Frankly I'm not really surprised at the Governor's bigotry.

I've been through Indiana, several times. One thing I noticed is just how many billboards had Biblical citations, even when they were just advertising bankruptcy lawyers or restaurants. Two of the cousins who accused me of Communism when I came out have settled there. No, I don't expect to find sophisticated, cosmopolitan thinking from a citizen of that state.

Piss off.

[Pure Argent]

Frankly I'm not really surprised at the Governor's bigotry.

I've been through Indiana, several times. One thing I noticed is just how many billboards had Biblical citations, even when they were just advertising bankruptcy lawyers or restaurants. Two of the cousins who accused me of Communism when I came out have settled there. No, I don't expect to find sophisticated, cosmopolitan thinking from a citizen of that state.

HEY!

:mad:

[cwalner]

Nobody is right all the time. As a lifetime Indiana-ian, I'm willing to forgive him on this one considering the success he's brought Indiana during his last two terms.


Although, not a lifelong Hoosier (I only moved here two years ago), I would agree with your sentiments. He has been a very succesfull Governor IMHO. While this commnet is a bit stupid, Daniels never came across to me as overly religious. I think this is a case of pandering to what is, in all honesty, a very Christian constituancy.

[cwalner]

Frankly I'm not really surprised at the Governor's bigotry.

I've been through Indiana, several times. One thing I noticed is just how many billboards had Biblical citations, even when they were just advertising bankruptcy lawyers or restaurants. Two of the cousins who accused me of Communism when I came out have settled there. No, I don't expect to find sophisticated, cosmopolitan thinking from a citizen of that state.

Governor Daniels and his constituents can have each other.

You mean the same unsophisticated, non-cosmopolitan bible-thumping constiuancy that elected Andre Carson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Carson)to the House of Representatives?

No doubt, it is a very Christian state. But I have found that most Hoosiers tend to be very laid back about it.

[ponderingturtle]

Although, not a lifelong Hoosier (I only moved here two years ago), I would agree with your sentiments. He has been a very succesfull Governor IMHO. While this commnet is a bit stupid, Daniels never came across to me as overly religious. I think this is a case of pandering to what is, in all honesty, a very Christian constituancy.

Why view it as pandering to christians? Lots of people of all faiths bash atheists. For example if it had been about any other catagory of religious belief it would have been much bigger news and a much bigger scandal.

[pgwenthold]

Although, not a lifelong Hoosier (I only moved here two years ago), I would agree with your sentiments. He has been a very succesfull Governor IMHO.

Outside of selling off the tollway for a one-time infusion of $3 bil, what has he done that is all that successful?

[pgwenthold]

You mean the same unsophisticated, non-cosmopolitan bible-thumping constiuancy that elected Andre Carson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Carson)to the House of Representatives?

No doubt, it is a very Christian state. But I have found that most Hoosiers tend to be very laid back about it.

Well, it is not quite Iowegian in its laid-backness, but it is also not Iowegian in some of its obnoxiousness (try driving HWY 20 from Dubuque to Waterloo)

[Ashles]

I guess that means that 9/11 was in 1999. :p

I think this guy is meaning 1900 to 1999. :p

Or 1901-2000 as it should really be. :)

[The Fallen Serpent]

Or 1901-2000 as it should really be. :)

9-11 was in 2001 so either way (both are valid even if one is less numerically useful) 9-11 is not part of the twentieth century.

Still, "the last century" may refer to the twentieth century or it may refer to a century's worth of years preceding the present moment in time. Refering to time in this way is ambiguous if I am understanding it correctly. Even if I am not it is commonly abused.

[cwalner]

Outside of selling off the tollway for a one-time infusion of $3 bil, what has he done that is all that successful?

Indiana has not been as hard hit by the economic crisis as have most other states. IMO, this has a lot to do with Daniels' fiscal policies. We are seeing actual growth in few industries (biotech and automotive amongst the more newsworthy) due to Daniels aggressively marketing Indiana as a good place to do business.

[Ashles]

9-11 was in 2001 so either way (both are valid even if one is less numerically useful) 9-11 is not part of the twentieth century.

I know, but the forum annoyingly still has not got round to creating a 'pedantry' smilie yet, which is surely much overdue.

[GreenLines]

Or 1901-2000 as it should really be. :)

I stand corrected, or as the Wife would say "Touch Costmart." :p

[The Fallen Serpent]

I know, but the forum annoyingly still has not got round to creating a 'pedantry' smilie yet, which is surely much overdue.

:pedant

[Piscivore]

I know, but the forum annoyingly still has not got round to creating a 'pedantry' smilie yet, which is surely much overdue.
:teacher:

[Achán hiNidráne]

Piss off.

Sorry... anti-atheism brings out the worst in me.

[Kiosk]

I'll have to pass on the Governor's thoughts to my Irish, Catholic-schooled mates.

[Tricky]

Ah, a variation on an old, well-beloved logical error, henceforth known as the "Every True Scotsman Fallacy".

[Piscivore]

Ah, a variation on an old, well-beloved logical error, henceforth known as the "Every True Scotsman Fallacy".

I'm sorry, but the governer's statements are cherry picking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking) and association fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy), not Scotsman.

[pgwenthold]

Indiana has not been as hard hit by the economic crisis as have most other states. IMO, this has a lot to do with Daniels' fiscal policies.

I still see it as being due to the influx of the $3B he got for "leasing" the toll road.

What other policies would you think caused it? This year, for example, now that that money is no longer available, it is suffering as much as everyone else.

[I Ratant]

The "Gott mit Uns" motto long predated Hitler.
.
But persisted during his reign.
I have a Luger with holster and belt brought back from Yurp after my Dads tour of the continent from Normandy to Czechoslovakia in the middle 40s.

[I Ratant]

All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by humans, inefficient immune systems, and natural disasters. And the Octomom.
.
Speaking of whom... despite all the negative publicity, apparently someone is capitalizing on the name/fame...
I've seen this van a few times, locally.

[Psi Baba]

"All the idiotic statements of the last century were uttered by politicians."


Of course that's not entirely accurate, but hey, it's close enough for government work, right?

[Skeptic Ginger]

From the OP link:Mellinger: Is there part of you that is bothered by the aggressive atheism of a [Sam] Harris, a [Christopher] Hitchens, a [Richard] Dawkins? And what I mean is... this atheism is a little different than atheism has been in the past because it does seek to convert people.Seems the interviewer may have his own bias here.

Daniels: I'm not sure it's all that new. People who reject the idea of a God -who think that we're just accidental protoplasm- have always been with us. What bothers me is the implications -which not all such folks have thought through- because really, if we are just accidental, if this life is all there is, if there is no eternal standard of right and wrong, then all that matters is power.

And atheism leads to brutality. All the horrific crimes of the last century were committed by atheists -Stalin and Hitler and Mao and so forth- because it flows very naturally from an idea that there is no judgment and there is nothing other than the brief time we spend on this Earth.How is it we are still dealing with this false assertion that morals come from one's god beliefs?

It's mind boggling that you can address this over and over yet get nowhere.

[headscratcher4]

It has no relevance to anything but through much of the early to mid 20th Century, Indiana had some of the largest Klan organizations in the country...at one time in the 1920s, they essentially controlled the Statehouse. They were god fear'n men.

[Schrodinger's Cat]

General Pinochet: Catholic
President Ferdinand Marcos: Catholic
"El Jefe" Rafael Trujilo: Catholic
Pablo Escobar: Catholic
Francisco Franco: Catholic
Colonel Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi: Catholic
President Luis Garcia Meza Tejada: Catholic
Radovan Karadžić: Christian Orthodox
John Gotti: Catholic
Al Capone: Catholic
Whitey Bulger: Catholic
Perpetrators of the Sabra and Shatila massacres: Christian Phalangist
Hutu Perpetrators of the Rwandan Massacre: Christian, mostly Catholic

Now I purposely only included Christians on this list because that is the faith of the governor himself. This is not to suggest Christians have a monopoly on large scale crime or genocide, or that they acted alone in the Sabra and Shatila massacre (as they were aided by the Israeli army).

But I have pointed this out before to fundamental Christians when they made arguments similar to the governor, and the response has always been "Well, they don't count, because they weren't true Christians."

[Trent Wray]

.
Speaking of whom... despite all the negative publicity, apparently someone is capitalizing on the name/fame...
I've seen this van a few times, locally.
Wowzers :eek:

*takes a bite of Octomom stew*

I guess it's better than Brangelina's Baby Boutique. Or maybe not :boggled:

[MarkCorrigan]

General Pinochet: Catholic

Interestingly someone on this forum has him as their avatar because they consider him to have been a good leader.

[Kopji]

Just another argument that atheists need to become more politically organized.

Politicians are obviously not a wee bit afraid that offending atheists will have any negative impact whatsoever.

[Safe-Keeper]

Politicians are obviously not a wee bit afraid that offending atheists will have any negative impact whatsoever. Weren't we supposed to make up 15% of the US population?

ETA: Well, not "we"-we, but those us us residing in the US?

[The Fallen Serpent]

Weren't we supposed to make up 15% of the US population?

ETA: Well, not "we"-we, but those us us residing in the US?

15% includes atheists, non-religious agnostics and others that refuse to engage in organized religion (I'm spiritual but not religious). Still, it is a huge bloc. The problem is lack of influential lobbying organizations and empathy from other population sections. For instance, there would be a huge outcry against a similar statement made about jews or asians even though both are smaller minorities in the US. Yet in response to similar statements (blaming most instead of all atrocities on atheists) I have heard my christian friends respond with, "well, it is true." Despite being a sizable majority the public perception of atheists is not positive even among those sympathetic to allowing our freedom to be such.

[blobru]

...
Colonel Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi: Catholic
...

He's a bit behind on his hail marys, then. :p
(Muslim, surely.)

[I Ratant]

He's a bit behind on his hail marys, then. :p
(Muslim, surely.)
.
Looking at his bio, with Daddy having two Mohammeds in his name, I kinda think the kid is also.
And at least one of his children feature Mohammed as part of the name.
Not something any mackeral snapper would append at baptism. :)

[FireGarden]

I googled Gaddafi and Catholic and came up with this story:
"GADDAFI AFFIRMS CATHOLIC DOCTRINE IN ROME"
http://www.catholic.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1814

A very misleading headline, the likes of which might be the source of confusion.

A bit of "we're the only way, and can say so"-envy.

[Schrodinger's Cat]

blobru:

Colonel Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi: Catholic

oops sorry, I had him on there as Muslim as well as several other non Christian leaders/criminals, but then deleted them off my list because, as I stated, I wanted to keep it specific to the Christian faith as that is what the governor is. Obviously in my deletion accidentally deleted the wrong guy. My bad!