Plumbing from the gas chamber @ Dachau.

[TSR]

Hey, Saggy!

Over here (http://thetigernews.com/news.php?aid=6041&sid=2), in an attempt to defend your lie about there not being a homicidal gas chamber @ Dachau, you said

The hoax gas chamber at Dachau is a shower room.

.
When challenged to:

... point out where the drains and actual plumbing is, then?

.
you replied

You bet. Photos of the actual plumbing featured prominently in early holohoax lies.

.
You ran away before actually producing these photos. And also seem to have forgotten the question of why the Nazis would put a shower in a building containing four disinfestations rooms? Why would a shower need two bin-like drawers (http://www.holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/photo.cgi?39) leading to the exterior protected on the inside by a grating (http://www.holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/photo.cgi?41?)?

Here's your chance to address these points.
.

[TSR]

Bump for Saggy, so zie can find it more easily.

In support of zir thesis that the gas chamber @ Dachau was merely a shower room, Saggy offers an off topic post in another thread in which zie had been whining about others' off topic containing this link (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/camp/view/3_hi.html).

Once again, Saggy does not actually review zir own sources, since this chapter of this documentary very clearly calls the gas chamber what it is, but apparently has been pointed to ~ 05:57 -- 06:10 of this clip.

Is there *anyone* that thinks this shows a water valve and plumbing -- are that misinterprets the comment "...and another batch of victims screamed their lives out beyond the grill?"

[Budly]

I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes.

[Simon39759]

The Dachau gaz chambers were initially planned as part as an effort to fumigate clothing for lice control. By the time the building came under construction, though, people at other camps had already discovered how efficient Zyklon B was as a tool of extermination, so the Nazis apparently changed their plans a bit a designed one of the chamber for extermination purpose. It is actually constructed quite differently than the fumigation chambers, larger, with a heavy steel door and such, this lay to rest the denier claim that all gas chambers were for fumigation purposes, we can easily differentiate between the two types.

One of the reason that might have motivated the Nazis to adapt Dachau for a more exterminationist purpose was the evacuation of the Eastern camps in front of the Soviet's advance that was happening at the time, Dachau was receiving a large influx of prisoners for these camps and was expecting more. It was getting crowded and typhus epidemics were breaking out (which, in turn, accelerated the construction of the chambers building). It simply seems that, while building the chambers to try to fight the epidemic, the Nazis also decided to had some extermination chambers so that they would have the option to cut the problem at the base, the overcrowding, if need be.

As for the actual use of the murdering gas chambers, there is little documentation. The building came into service relatively late.
It is likely that they were used but certainly never to an extent comparable with that of the Aktion Reinhard camps...

[Saggy]

I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes.

You have correctly summarized the current state of affairs. However, at different times three different methods of getting the gas into the shower room have been 'documented' by the 'authorities'. One of those methods is that the gas was piped in through the shower pipes. A British propaganda film made shortly after the war shows how the pipes and valves were used to control the flow of gas into the room. Once you see the film, you'll know why it was never shown until it appeared on a FrontLine TV program. You can see it online now at .....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/camp/view/

This is a must see film.

There is a lot of info on the Dachau shower room and the various attempts to portray it as as 'homicidal gas chamber' at ....

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapBook/GasChamber/Index.html

One amusing note is that the 'authorities' are now so desperate to hide their lies that the room containing the pipes and valves, and the room beneath the shower room (it was also 'documented' that the gas came into the shower room through the drain !) are both closed to the public.

We might as well have a pic ..... this is not a picture of the door to the hoax gas chamber, but it was widely published at the end of the war as the door to the 'homicidal gas chamber' at Dachau, note the skull and crossbones and the warning 'Danger - Gas' .... LOL ... (note for the novice: it is the door to a fumigation room used to delouse clothing to prevent typhus)

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachau/GasChamber.jpg

Removed hotlinked image.

[dafydd]

I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes.

I'm so happy to hear that there was no gassing program at the Dachau Holiday Camp.

[commandlinegamer]

I've maybe missed the point here, but is Saggy trying to argue the fact that the gas chamber at Dachau was a shower means the Holocaust never happened? How does he explain the other camps for which there is evidence that gassing did occur?

[Belz...]

One amusing note

That' a thing that pisses me off about conspiracy theorists. It's FUNNY to them.

I don't think it's funny.

[garethdjb]

I don't understand, but no one thinks there was a gassing extermination program at Dachau. Including prominent holocaust historians. And the allegation at one time is that Zyklon B was used, but Zyklon B doesn't travel through pipes. It is gas absorbed in chalky pellets. You pour the pellets into a room. No pipes.

Good to see you are aware of the delivery method of Zyklon B. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that there was no extermination program at Dachau and therefore you conclude that Zyklon B wasn't used there. The inference, then, is that you are well aware that Zyklon B WAS used where there was an extermination program.

[TSR]

You have correctly summarized the current state of affairs. However, at different times three different methods of getting the gas into the shower room have been 'documented' by the 'authorities'.

.
Of course, Saggy will once again attempt to distract from the fact that zie will now have to run and find someone to give him this documentation, refuse to supply it in context, and then desperately try to distract from the matter when it turns out the *actual* "authorities" involved could not possibly have been authoritative on the matter, or were simply mistaken, which latter Saggy will insist proves mendacity...
.

One of those methods is that the gas was piped in through the shower pipes. A British propaganda film made shortly after the war shows how the pipes and valves were used to control the flow of gas into the room. Once you see the film, you'll know why it was never shown until it appeared on a FrontLine TV program. You can see it online now at .....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/camp/view/

.
No, it shows a single crank being used, with no way to know to what it was attached, and what is likely to be ductwork, unless Saggy wants to posit something other that the section I have highlighted from 5:57 -- 6:10.

Saggy still cannot support his claim that the plumbing to the showerheads existed, because none did.

Saggy does not even know enough about the matter to realize that HCN is lighter than air, and so any method which does not at some level release the gas at waist level at least is going to require some sort of positive ventilation to fill the room to the point where it could be breathed in. This is why the gas was released into the the room via two bins which opened to the outside -- a curious feature for a shower room.
.

This is a must see film.

.
Indeed -- and you should watch it with the sound up, so you can hear the narrarator explicitly talk about "beyond the grate."
.

There is a lot of info on the Dachau shower room and the various attempts to portray it as as 'homicidal gas chamber' at ....

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapBook/GasChamber/Index.html

.
I especially recommend looking at para 6 on this page (http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapBook/GasChamber/history01.html) where it says


On the left in the photo above, behind the recently-added white table, are the two bins on the outside wall through which Zyklon-B poison gas pellets could be poured into the gas chamber. The openings for the bins, which were formerly hidden behind a three-sided wooden screen that was attached to the wall, were centered on the inside wall of the gas chamber. A small rectangular hole between the two bins has been boarded up and there is no corresponding hole on the inside of the gas chamber.

.
Why would a shower room need these, Saggy? Can you find a *single* place on that site where it is said that this was a shower room, or which shows the connections to the shower heads?

Seriously -- when some denier tells you something is so, you should really do more than skim: the context usually destroys your cherry pick, assuming that the entire work isn't questionable to begin with. That way you won't appear quite so much the fool.
.

One amusing note is that the 'authorities' are now so desperate to hide their lies that the room containing the pipes and valves, and the room beneath the shower room (it was also 'documented' that the gas came into the shower room through the drain !) are both closed to the public.

.
No, they are not. Indeed, they are not on the "normal tour," but they are not closed. Go ahead, try to document this claim.
.

We might as well have a pic ..... this is not a picture of the door to the hoax gas chamber, but it was widely published at the end of the war as the door to the 'homicidal gas chamber' at Dachau, note the skull and crossbones and the warning 'Danger - Gas' .... LOL ... (note for the novice: it is the door to a fumigation room used to delouse clothing to prevent typhus)

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachau/GasChamber.jpg

.
Just like your claim that there were "many articles" in the NYT during WWI discussing a holocaust, this "widely published" is based on nothing more than your pathological need that it be so.
.

[TSR]

bump for Saggy, since zie seems to have forgotten to respond when zie was on earlier...

[Saggy]

bump for Saggy, since zie seems to have forgotten to respond when zie was on earlier...

Just one thing to ad, the photograph of door to the hoax Dachau gas chamber above is shown on the USHMM web site with the caption "A soldier from the U.S. 7th Army examines the door to a gas chamber in the Dachau concentration camp. [Photograph #61985]". The holohoax lying never stops.

[TSR]

Just one thing to ad, the photograph of door to the hoax Dachau gas chamber above is shown on the USHMM web site with the caption "A soldier from the U.S. 7th Army examines the door to a gas chamber in the Dachau concentration camp. [Photograph #61985]". The holohoax lying never stops.

.
And where does it say a *homicidal* gas chamber? Because they seem to make a distinction between *the* gas chamber and *a* gas chamber, as seen here (http://resources.ushmm.org/inquery/uia_doc.php/query/5?uf=uia_igjlOk) vs. here (http://resources.ushmm.org/inquery/uia_doc.php/query/16?uf=uia_igjlOk)

Seriously, dude: study your sources first. The only lies here are yours.

Did you find anywhere on scrapbookpages where it says the homicidal gas chamber was actually a shower?

Any idea why a shower room would need two bins opening to the outside?

Any luck on finding documentation that the showerheads were connected to anything having to do with water?

Any chance of you supporting your lie that this picture was "widely published" as being to *the* gas chamber, or that these rooms are closed to the public, or that "three different methods" were endorsed by "the authorities," or ...

And do please hurry with the post that repeats your lies about the Glynn letter: I've got "roger's" demolishing of that all lined up: since it appears you have nothing new to lie about, why not just point out that you've already been schooled on that matter, and any other you might bring up?
.

[TSR]

Bump for Saggy, who once again has forgotten that this thread exists....

[Thunder]

so, when the Nazis claimed that Estonia was "Judenrein", they were lying?

exaggerating?

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs260.ash1/18768_308130240737_567160737_3982754_1702737_n.jpg

[dafydd]

Just one thing to ad, the photograph of door to the hoax Dachau gas chamber above is shown on the USHMM web site with the caption "A soldier from the U.S. 7th Army examines the door to a gas chamber in the Dachau concentration camp. [Photograph #61985]". The holohoax lying never stops.

Holohoax,what a moronic term.

[Saggy]

Holohoax,what a moronic term.

A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax.

In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax.

1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six".

2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines.

3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses.

[TSR]

Of course, Saggy doesn't even try to support any of these lies, any more than zie can address any of the other lies zie has told:

Did you find anywhere on scrapbookpages where it says the homicidal gas chamber was actually a shower?

Any idea why a shower room would need two bins opening to the outside?

Any luck on finding documentation that the showerheads were connected to anything having to do with water?

Any chance of you supporting your lie that this picture was "widely published" as being to *the* gas chamber, or that these rooms are closed to the public, or that "three different methods" were endorsed by "the authorities," or ...

[dafydd]

A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax.

In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax.

1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six".

2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines.

3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses.

It's still a moronic term only used by people sadly lacking in intelligence.

[MaGZ]

I'm so happy to hear that there was no gassing program at the Dachau Holiday Camp.


I assume you are referring to the Olympic-size swimming pool and orchestra.

[McHrozni]

A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax.

In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax.

1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six".

2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines.

3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses.

Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus?


http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/einsatzgruppen-the-last-jew-in-vinnitsa-jpg.jpeg


How about nooses?

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ghettos/images/Hanging%20in%20Lodz.jpg


Unless Nazis thought these were highly effective remedies to cure typhus, you have some explaining to do. You may begin.

McHrozni

Removed hotlinked images, and added NSFW tags.

[MaGZ]

so, when the Nazis claimed that Estonia was "Judenrein", they were lying?

exaggerating?

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs260.ash1/18768_308130240737_567160737_3982754_1702737_n.jpg

It appears that map was made with a ball-point pen.

[dafydd]

Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus?

http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/einsatzgruppen-the-last-jew-in-vinnitsa-jpg.jpeg

How about nooses?

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ghettos/images/Hanging%20in%20Lodz.jpg

Unless Nazis thought these were highly effective remedies to cure typhus, you have some explaining to do. You may begin.

McHrozni

Well MaGZ? Care to comment?

[dafydd]

It appears that map was made with a ball-point pen.

So what,Holocaust denier maps are drawn in crayon.

[MaGZ]

Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus?

http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/einsatzgruppen-the-last-jew-in-vinnitsa-jpg.jpeg

How about nooses?

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ghettos/images/Hanging%20in%20Lodz.jpg

Unless Nazis thought these were highly effective remedies to cure typhus, you have some explaining to do. You may begin.

McHrozni

They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals.

[McHrozni]

They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals.

Yep, however this would mean Saggy et.al. were wrong all the time. Do you agree with that?

McHrozni

[commandlinegamer]

Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus?

How about nooses?

McHrozni

Well, as we all know, dead bodies don't spread disease.

Anyway, I've yet to see any evidence to back up Saggy's claims:


A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax


I prefer definition 4 from the same page:

Word used exclusively by dumb(Rule 10) pseudonazis and their nemesis, the Nazi bashers.

By all means cite sources, but it helps if they actually back up your argument. Definitions on their own mean nothing.

[dafydd]

They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals.

Why were the master race representatives killing them then?

[Simon39759]

Are handguns an effective remedy against typhus?

http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/einsatzgruppen-the-last-jew-in-vinnitsa-jpg.jpeg

What dedication these Nazis had in trying t osave the Jews from thyphus.
Imagine, shooting all this lices individually one after the other... No wonder they lost the war, they didn't have any ammo left for the Soviets...




It appears that map was made with a ball-point pen.

So what,Holocaust denier maps are drawn in crayon.

I believe that it is because the ball-point pen was invited after the war, I have seen deniers use the same 'argument' to disprove the Ann Frank diaries...
Diaries which must, however be original as some Nazi used them a few days ago to prove that only a few percent of Jews died in the camp... But I guess internal consistency is degenerated...

[MaGZ]

What dedication these Nazis had in trying t osave the Jews from thyphus.
Imagine, shooting all this lices individually one after the other... No wonder they lost the war, they didn't have any ammo left for the Soviets...








I believe that it is because the ball-point pen was invited after the war, I have seen deniers use the same 'argument' to disprove the Ann Frank diaries...
Diaries which must, however be original as some Nazi used them a few days ago to prove that only a few percent of Jews died in the camp... But I guess internal consistency is degenerated...

At least you got the joke.

[dafydd]

At least you got the joke.

It was a joke? Don't give up your day job to go into stand-up.

[Simon39759]

At least you got the joke.

Why, yes, the idea of a fifteen years old dying horribly after witnessing the painful agony of her sister is just plain hilarious...

[fuelair]

What dedication these Nazis had in trying t osave the Jews from thyphus.
Imagine, shooting all this lices individually one after the other... No wonder they lost the war, they didn't have any ammo left for the Soviets......

Actually they likely assumed they could just bend over for the Russians like they had for each other...............

[Belz...]

They may not have had typhus. They could have been perfectly healthy individuals.

Aside from the malnutrition and bruises, no doubt.

But, then, the Nazis LOVED the jews...

[UNLoVedRebel]

A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax.

In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax.

1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six".

2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines.

3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses.

Hi Saggy. Just out of curiosity, are you from Wisconsin?

[switchpoint]

It's still a moronic term only used by people sadly lacking in intelligence.

I don't really want to get involved in a discussion about what I consider to be one of the most moronic and ugliest ideas in human history (denial of the Holocaust) but I remember as a young man walking through the gas chamber at Dachau, it was almost 30 years after the war and the place still smelled like death.

I think there is a very special place in Hell for Holocaust deniers and I would almost be willing to there myself just to watch them suffer.

[dafydd]

deleted

[dafydd]

Hi Saggy. Just out of curiosity, are you from Wisconsin?

Why do you ask that? Does every native of Wisconsin's knuckles drag along the ground when they walk?

[UNLoVedRebel]

Why do you ask that? Does every native of Wisconsin's knuckles drag along the ground when they walk?

There's this douche bag from Wisconsin who calls himself Prothink. Saggy has a VERY SIMILAR writing style i.e. saying "holohoax" six times in a sentence, making the same logical fallacies, putting quotation marks as if it counters an argument, etc etc.

Check it out for yourself (take a shower when you're done though).

http://www.prothink.org/holohoax

[carlitos]

"Prothink" (Mike Delaney) is a 9/11 Truther too. Probably just another coincidence.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Just like your claim that there were "many articles" in the NYT during WWI discussing a holocaust, this "widely published" is based on nothing more than your pathological need that it be so.
No way, he said that? My first post about Saggy being prothink was tongue-in-cheek. But this argument has always been his fave. I am reasonably certain that Saggy is Mike Deleney aka Prothink. A schizophrenic douche bag from Wisconsin with male-pattern baldness.

Edit, here's prothink's website discussing the issue.

"Jews were talking about 6 million Jews dying in 1919! See this excerpt from ‘The American Hebrew,’ October 31, 1919, by Martin Glynn. This marketing of the Holocaust didn’t catch on."

~~~Prothink~~~

[tsig]

Aside from the malnutrition and bruises, no doubt.

But, then, the Nazis LOVED the jews...

It was Tough Love strictly for their own good.

[tsig]

No way, he said that? My first post about Saggy being prothink was tongue-in-cheek. But this argument has always been his fave. I am reasonably certain that Saggy is Mike Deleney aka Prothink. A schizophrenic douche bag from Wisconsin with male-pattern baldness.

Edit, here's prothink's website discussing the issue.

"Jews were talking about 6 million Jews dying in 1919! See this excerpt from ‘The American Hebrew,’ October 31, 1919, by Martin Glynn. This marketing of the Holocaust didn’t catch on."

~~~Prothink~~~

Here's a fact I never knew:

"Even the hit TV show, Hogan’s Heroes (1965-1971), did not mention the gas chambers. The birth of the Holocaust genre was when President Carter established the U.S. Holocaust Commission, and Hollywood stepped in."


A comedy TV show never mentioned the holocaust cause it was invented by Carter and Hollywood.

Carter was president from 1977 to 1981

[TSR]

Saggy has zir own website, linked multiple times from The Tiger.

Same old same old lies.

[triforcharity]

A succinct definition appears in the Urban Dictionary -

1. holohoax 508 up, 256 down / love it hate it

buy holohoax mugs, tshirts and magnets

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax, hence holohoax.

In terms of NUMBERS, the "holocaust" is a GROSS EXAGGERATION It is the Holohoax.

1) The number of jews that died under control of the NAZI's was LESS than ONE million, NOT "six".

2) MOST of them died from TYPHUS EPIDEMICS. Most of the REST died from STARVATION and lack of medical care resulting from ALLIED BOMBING RAIDS against food and medicine supply lines.

3) The German war AGAINST TYPHUS was the REAL reason for shaving heads, fumigating buildings, and cremating corpses.

Ok, they why were the Germans that lived in very nearby towns, fed well, and didn't have the same medical problems??

I would love to hear how you justify this.

[HawksFan]

Here's a fact I never knew:

"Even the hit TV show, Hogan’s Heroes (1965-1971), did not mention the gas chambers. The birth of the Holocaust genre was when President Carter established the U.S. Holocaust Commission, and Hollywood stepped in."


A comedy TV show never mentioned the holocaust cause it was invented by Carter and Hollywood.

Carter was president from 1977 to 1981

Not to mention that Hogan's Heroes was set in POW camp, not a concentration camp. :confused:

[switchpoint]

Just a little side note: The actor that played Corp. LeBeau on Hogan's Heroes was actually a survivor of Buchenwald.

[TSR]

Just a little side note: The actor that played Corp. LeBeau on Hogan's Heroes was actually a survivor of Buchenwald.

.
Seems "Saggy" has once again run away from actually supporting zir lies, but one can imagine that since Clary is an obviously Hebrew name, and since he was associated with Hollywood, we must prove that the German Shepard in that dog house wasn't in on it, or else the Holocaust never happened
.

[dafydd]

There's this douche bag from Wisconsin who calls himself Prothink. Saggy has a VERY SIMILAR writing style i.e. saying "holohoax" six times in a sentence, making the same logical fallacies, putting quotation marks as if it counters an argument, etc etc.

Check it out for yourself (take a shower when you're done though).

http://www.prothink.org/holohoax

Eeyuch!!!!

[HawksFan]

I've actually been to Dachau. We didn't get to tour the gas chamber building, but we were taken down to the crematorium outside the camp itself.

I remember what was so striking about the camp was the town of Dachau was right across the street, basically, and they still claimed to that day not to have known what was going on. Of course, this was in '81, so the town may have been somewhat further away at the time the camp was actually operating.

[Tiktaalik]

I just toured Dachau, with a tour guide.

We did tour the crematoria (there are two) and the fumigation/gas chamber.

The way it was explained to us, the rooms at the back (the pass-through rooms) were fumigation chambers for clothing.

However, the middle rooms, through which we walked, were set up to look like a series of showers, into which people were intended to be herded. They were set up to look like showers to avoid panic, with floor drain-holes (that went nowhere) and fake shower heads. In the side of the central chamber were several little chutes:

16887

These were where the crystals were to be introduced.

The chambers were never used extensively at Dachau; most of those cremated at Dachau died from starvation and overwork while building the rest of the camp (it was a work camp, not an extermination camp). Others were shot against the wall behind the crematoria.

One thing about Dachau: it was the first camp opened, in 1933, and was originally intended to be a re-education camp for political prisoners. The guards there kept very good records, including possessions of their prisoners, starting right off the bat, as some of the prisoners were supposed to be, and actually were, released in the mid-1930s. That record-keeping extended into the time during which the camp began to accept gypsies and Jews.

That means there are tons of records, including photos and film, taken by the Nazis, documenting the camp. These are now available to us to review. Many of the films and photos depict medical experiments done at the camp, such as introducing air emboli into the brain.

I fail to understand how anyone can visit Dachau and come away thinking it was all somehow faked. The infrastructure, photos, film, witness recollections, and paper trail are all there in overwhelming amounts.

Here, by the way, is a photo of one of the crematoria:

16888

This is the second one; the "business" got too much for the first, smaller one and another was built. by the time Dachau was liberated, "business" had overwhelmed this larger one as well, and bodies were stacked in the yard waiting for cremation (photos & film available at Dachau - also of the train standing in the yard containing hundreds of bodies).

[TSR]

Bump for Saggy, since zie seems to have forgotten to produce the pictures of the showerheads in Dachau being connected to anything to do with water, and to explain why a shower room would need two bins open to the outside.

Or are you ready to admit your lies on this and move on to the reaming "Roger" gave you on all the lies on your site?

[TSR]

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Bump for Saggy, since zie seems to have forgotten to post pictures of the showerheads attached to water pipes, nor explained why a shower room would need two bins opening to the outside, or really responded to any of the questions put to zie in this thread.
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[ddt]

Request to Saggy: could you declare your gender? I'd like to know so that TSR can use third-person singular pronouns that all of us actually understand. ;)

[TSR]

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Bump for Saggy
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[HawksFan]

So...no word on this plumbing yet? I'm shocked.

[TSR]

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Bump for Saggy
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[JoeyDonuts]

While he's at it, I'd like to know what the holocaust denier's talking points are for hand-waving Aktion T4, pogroms, the extermination of 'undesirables' OTHER than Juden, the well-documented eugenics program, and the activities of the Einsatzgruppen.

[INRM]

Why do people deny the holocaust exist?

[Moss]

Why do people deny the holocaust exist?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=168151

[TSR]

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Bump for Saggy...
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[JoeyDonuts]

I wouldn't hold your breath.

[quarky]

Why do people deny the holocaust exist?

Because they love Jews so much, they can't handle the pain of admitting that such a thing ever happened.

Same with the Catholic hierarchy and pedophilia: They deny it because it is too upsetting. That's how much the church loves children.

Or maybe, they have another agenda. Hope not.

[garethdjb]

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Bump for Saggy...
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A search on the CODOH forums for 'plumbing Dachau' produced no results, so Saggy is unlikely to respond. There is nothing for him to copy-and-paste.

[Matthew Ellard]

A search on the CODOH forums for 'plumbing Dachau' produced no results, so Saggy is unlikely to respond. There is nothing for him to copy-and-paste.

It is interesting isn't it. I also do searches on the IHR and Codoh websites to prepare for standard holocaust denial arguments. Did you notice that alot of their material is quite old? I'm suspicious the websites are "teasers" to force "fans" to buy the books so the leading holocaust deniers can make a profit from a maintained fan base.

[garethdjb]

It is interesting isn't it. I also do searches on the IHR and Codoh websites to prepare for standard holocaust denial arguments. Did you notice that alot of their material is quite old? I'm suspicious the websites are "teasers" to force "fans" to buy the books so the leading holocaust deniers can make a profit from a maintained fan base.

It wouldn't surprise me, Zundel is trying to flog his paintings that he did in prison after all. Hmm, anti-Semitic wannabe artist. . . who does that remind me of?

I'm still having difficulty working out what specifically it is that the deniers are denying. Do they deny ANY mass killings of Jews by any means or just gas chambers? How do they explain away the mass shootings? What about the non-Jewish victims of Nazi mass murder, are these denied as well?

[TSR]

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Yeah, I loved when he was whining about how they would only let him have a pencil stub to write letters in detention in Canada, while Ingrid was selling "full colour sketches" he supposedly drew there.

Meanwhile, Saggy is still running from this thread like the cowardly aryan warrior zie is, while stamping zir feet in other threads insisting that the powerless Jews managed to create a hoax that only zie can see thru....
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[TSR]

Bump for Saggy, since zie seems to have forgotten to produce the pictures of the showerheads in Dachau being connected to anything to do with water, and to explain why a shower room would need two bins open to the outside

[ElMondoHummus]

Why is Saggy trying to use Dachau as his supposed falsification for the Holocaust? According to Nizkor.org, one of the main pieces of actual evidence" (http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi) presented claiming the Dachau gas chambers were not used was the 1960 letter from the director of the Institut für Zeitgeschichte. But even if the Holocaust deniers take that as gospel, they're indulging in a contradiction: They're stuck with the fact that this person unambiguously said that gassings took place in other camps. On top of that, after that letter was written, that director's organization had conducted further research and reversed their conclusion (http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/german/ifz/ifz.report). So even if you buy into the notion, one of the very sources used to argue this claim confirms gassings elsewhere, and no longer says they never happened in Dachau. My point is, of course, that picking through the minute details about the Holocaust doesn't add up to it not happening, not when the full context of the details is given.

[TSR]

Why is Saggy trying to use Dachau as his supposed falsification for the Holocaust?

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Zie isn't, really. Zie wants to hand wave away the evidence that chamber V @ Dachau was designed and built as a homicidal gas chamber so as to prop up zir lie that only two gaschambers are still standing. That there is some doubt as to whether the Dachau death chamber was ever used doesn't change the fact that it was specially built for that purpose means Saggy has to claim that it was a functional shower room.

However, when asked to document that the showerheads were actually connected to water plumbing, zie provided a video that very clearly states the rooms purpose. Zie has also not yet been spoon fed a lie by some more sophisticated denier to explain why this "shower room" would have needed to bins which opened to the outside.

So instead, zie has to pretend these questions were never raised, just like zie has to pretend that zie other lies (about the IMT, about the Glynn letter and the NYT, about the Kaltenbrunner Italian intercept) haven't been conclusively shown to be intellectually bankrupt.
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[TSR]

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Bump for Saggy, who has finally run out breath from zir running...
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[TSR]

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Bump for our brave aryan warrior Saggy to run away from some more...
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[little grey rabbit]

Whether the socalled Zyklon inlets were present at liberation or not, is difficult to say as the area were they were located was always hidden by a wooden screen.

http://www.ushmm.org/photos/62/62223.jpg

Removed breach of Rule 5. Please do not hotlink images.

You can see a modern close up where it looks like there has been rebricking work going on
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapBook/Photos2001/DachauA005.jpg

The first investigative report did take photographs of lots of pipes and valves and there is definitely a drainage outlet or two in the floor.

Its difficult to understand why they would design a gas chamber without ventilation and one in which it was impossible to remove partially degassed pellets, leaving the entire building unusable for at least 24 hours.

[little grey rabbit]

Incidentally, the pile of dirt you can see in front of the wooden screen was used to make the pile of corpses bigger. All the little tricks you use if you are creating effective propaganda

[Silly Green Monkey]

Nice little pile of dirt. Is there any way to make a pile of corpses LESS shocking?

[little grey rabbit]

well make them smaller, I guess

You could also think about bringing a few hollow wax models with your filming unit. However unless you wax models are anatomically correct inside as well as outside it is unwise to remove their eyes.

distasteful image linked below, albeit probably, at least in the eyeless case, not a genuine corpse
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8012/cap195.png

[Saggy]

Three methods of killing Jews in a typical shower room have been documented at Dachau :)

Relevant excerpts from the initial reports are assembled at

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapBook/GasChamber/descriptions.html

Method 1 -

Gas was transferred into the room through shower pipes that were controlled by the valves in an adjoining room ...

From one of the reports

"The gas chamber, about 20 feet by 20 feet, bears all the characteristics of an ordinary communal shower room with about fifty shower sprays in the roof, cement ceiling and cement floor. But there is not the usual ventilation, and the sprays squirted poison gas. One noticed that the doors, as well as the small window, were rubber-lined and that there was a conveniently situated glass-covered peephole to enable the controller to see when the gas could be turned off. From the lethal chamber a door leads to the crematorium. We inspected the elaborate controls and gas pipes leading into the chamber. Behind the crematorium there was an execution place for those who had to die by rifle fire; and there were ample signs that this place had been in frequent use." From a Report on Dachau Concentration Camp, signed by C.S. Coetzee and R. J. Montgomery who visited the camp on or about 7 May 1945.

Method 2 -

Gas was cooked up in the room beneath the shower and transferred into the shower room through grates in the floor ....

From one of the reports -

"The Gas Chamber. This room measured about 15 x 15 feet with a door leading to the crematorium. The ceiling was studded with what appeared to be shower heads. These were perforated disks set in the ceiling but were attached to no plumbing. In the floor were grills for the admission of gas. There was an observation window in one wall. The victims were told to undress and were told they were to get a bath. They were given towels and sent into the gas chamber. Cyanide gas was admitted through the grills below and when the victims were unconscious or dead the room was ventilated and bodies delivered to the adjacent crematorium. The apparent purpose of the shower bath humbug was to make the task of getting the victims into the gas chamber easier and in a properly unclothed state. Using this subterfuge the victims cooperated in their slaughter." Official Report by Major Reuben Berman on 30 May 1945. Berman was an Army doctor who had been assigned to investigate German medical research installations."

Method 3 -

Zyklon cyanide pellets, commercially available and used in the camps and all over Europe for fumigation of buildings and personal items, were tossed into the room through a chute in an outside wall. Cyanide gas is released from the pellets, the process taking one hour at 70 deg. F, and is correspondingly slower at lower temperatures. Cyanide gas is odorless and colorless, and the pellets emit a special patented warning scent for safety purposes. This commercial insecticide was allegedly used in the hoax gas chambers. It's as if the US army committed mass murder using Raid room bombs purchased at Home Depot.

I don't know which report was the first to mention the chutes and the Zyklon pellets.

[Liszt]

.
Zie isn't, really. Zie wants to hand wave away the evidence that chamber V @ Dachau was designed and built as a homicidal gas chamber so as to prop up zir lie that only two gaschambers are still standing. That there is some doubt as to whether the Dachau death chamber was ever used doesn't change the fact that it was specially built for that purpose means Saggy has to claim that it was a functional shower room.

However, when asked to document that the showerheads were actually connected to water plumbing, zie provided a video that very clearly states the rooms purpose. Zie has also not yet been spoon fed a lie by some more sophisticated denier to explain why this "shower room" would have needed to bins which opened to the outside.

So instead, zie has to pretend these questions were never raised, just like zie has to pretend that zie other lies (about the IMT, about the Glynn letter and the NYT, about the Kaltenbrunner Italian intercept) haven't been conclusively shown to be intellectually bankrupt.
.

why on earth are you using gender neutral pronouns?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun

************, or is it your attempt to be funny?

It isn't funny. It is probably the most witless thing I have ever seen on the Internet. And that's saying something. Any lurkers reading your posts are going to think you **********************.

Edited, breach of Rule 12.

[garethdjb]

Three methods of killing Jews in a typical shower room have been documented at Dachau :)

Relevant excerpts from the initial reports are assembled at

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapBook/GasChamber/descriptions.html

Method 1 -

Gas was transferred into the room through shower pipes that were controlled by the valves in an adjoining room ...

From one of the reports

"The gas chamber, <snip> and there were ample signs that this place had been in frequent use." From a Report on Dachau Concentration Camp, signed by C.S. Coetzee and R. J. Montgomery who visited the camp on or about 7 May 1945.

Method 2 -

Gas was cooked up in the room beneath the shower and transferred into the shower room through grates in the floor ....

From one of the reports -

"The Gas Chamber. This room measured about 15 x 15 feet with a door leading to the crematorium. <snip>Using this subterfuge the victims cooperated in their slaughter." Official Report by Major Reuben Berman on 30 May 1945. Berman was an Army doctor who had been assigned to investigate German medical research installations."

Method 3 -

Zyklon cyanide pellets, commercially available used in the camps and all over Europe for fumigation of buildings and personal items, were tossed into the room through a chute in an outside wall. Cyanide gas is released from the pellets, the process taking one hour at 70 deg. F, and is correspondingly slower at lower temperatures. Cyanide gas is odorless and colorless, and the pellets emit a special patented warning scent for safety purposes. This commercial insecticide was allegedly used in the hoax gas chambers. [B]It's as if the US army committed mass murder using Raid room bombs purchased at Home Depot.

I don't know which report was the first to mention the chutes and the Zyklon pellets.

The method 3 that you describe, where is it documented? I can't seem to find it with the other two descriptions at the page you linked.

[Pure Argent]

why on earth are you using gender neutral pronouns?

Because TSR doesn't know the gender of Saggy or 9/11-investigator. What are you so angry about?

[Liszt]

Because TSR doesn't know the gender of Saggy or 9/11-investigator. What are you so angry about?

You think that? Why doesn't he ever use invented (because they are - real gender neutral pronouns actually exist) pronouns on other posts? My god, you are naïve. But you are not being naïve, are you?

Saggy and 911guy are both male. That is a guess. But it is almost certainly true. So TSR can stop his nonsense now. (Yes, TSR is also male. It is very easy to guess someone's gender by the style of their posts.)

Also, there are no girls on the Internet.

[Pure Argent]

You think that? Why doesn't he ever use invented (because they are - real gender neutral pronouns actually exist) pronouns on other posts?

Because she knows the gender of other posters.

My god, you are naïve. But you are not being naïve, are you?

No and no. Again I ask why you are getting so angry about this.

[Liszt]

Well, I'll explain it for you.

TSR is using words like Zie because of an old meme - "Zie Germans". You can hear it in its original form (hopeless "comedy" about occupied France, 'Allo 'Allo, screened in the 80s on UK TV) or perhaps Jason Statham's character in Guy Ritchie's film "Snatch". He says it a couple of times.

There are 50 plus gender neutral terms - only one - Zie - relates to this meme - and that's the one TSR happened to choose.

Germany is the country where you'll be least likely to find a H. denier. But don't let that stop the desperate, never ending "joke".

That explaination wasn't nessesary, was it Pure Silver? You were smart enough to work it out yourself, and probably did.

Anyway, I'm not angry. It is just painful to read crap jokes. (And it is pointless to explain them to someone playing dumb.)

[Saggy]

The method 3 that you describe, where is it documented? I can't seem to find it with the other two descriptions at the page you linked.

Method 3 - absurd as it is - is now part of the standard holohoax narrative.

[garethdjb]

Method 3 - absurd as it is - is now part of the standard holohoax narrative.

Where did you get it from?

[Horatius]

Well, I'll explain it for you.

TSR is using words like Zie because of an old meme - "Zie Germans". You can hear it in its original form (hopeless "comedy" about occupied France, 'Allo 'Allo, screened in the 80s on UK TV) or perhaps Jason Statham's character in Guy Ritchie's film "Snatch". He says it a couple of times.

There are 50 plus gender neutral terms - only one - Zie - relates to this meme - and that's the one TSR happened to choose.

Germany is the country where you'll be least likely to find a H. denier. But don't let that stop the desperate, never ending "joke".

That explaination wasn't nessesary, was it Pure Silver? You were smart enough to work it out yourself, and probably did.

Anyway, I'm not angry. It is just painful to read crap jokes. (And it is pointless to explain them to someone playing dumb.)



Which would be nice and all, if there weren't examples of TSR using that same pronoun in discussing other, non-denier people.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5671028#post5671028
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5538865#post5538865
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4737217#post4737217

Shall I go on?

[Liszt]

Which would be nice and all, if there weren't examples of TSR using that same pronoun in discussing other, non-denier people.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5671028#post5671028
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5538865#post5538865
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4737217#post4737217

Shall I go on?

Well shut my mouth!

Hahaha I'm a stupid **** sometimes.


(Still, my theory makes much more sense. So what if it's wrong?)

[Pure Argent]

Well shut my mouth!

Hahaha I'm a stupid **** sometimes.


(Still, my theory makes much more sense. So what if it's wrong?)

:D

[Liszt]

Yes, sorry TSR and Pure Argent. My wife is German, and I thought it was the usual nonsense.

[Pure Argent]

Yes, sorry TSR and Pure Argent. My wife is German, and I thought it was the usual nonsense.

No problem. Don't worry about it. It's very, very difficult to get me mad.

[TSR]

Three methods of killing Jews in a typical shower room have been documented at Dachau

.
None of them by people who had actually seen them in operation.

And none of which support your lie that the gas chamber @ Dachau was a functional shower room, with water pipes attached to the showerheads.

You stated that you had pictures documenting this: produce them or admot you were lying.

Or run away some more, like the 'brave' aryan warrior you are...
.

[Saggy]

.

And none of which support your lie that the gas chamber @ Dachau was a functional shower room, with water pipes attached to the showerheads.

.

How does the quote go ...

"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.

Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.

I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying."

Uncannily accurate. Now, why don't you get your boyfriend Roger to explain it to you.

[garethdjb]

Method 3 - absurd as it is - is now part of the standard holohoax narrative.

I'll try again. Where does the Method 3 description come from? Who wrote it?

[Pure Argent]

How does the quote go ...

<snip>

Uncannily accurate. Now, why don't you get your boyfriend Roger to explain it to you.

So not only are you incapable of producing evidence to support your contentions, anyone who points this out is labeled as a Jew and therefore is a member of the conspiracy.
Real nice. You're making a great case for your side.

[ANTPogo]

So not only are you incapable of producing evidence to support your contentions, anyone who points this out is labeled as a Jew and therefore is a member of the conspiracy.
Real nice. You're making a great case for your side.

Even better (or worse, really), the passage he quoted is from Hitler's Mein Kampf!

[Cleon]

So not only are you incapable of producing evidence to support your contentions, anyone who points this out is labeled as a Jew and therefore is a member of the conspiracy.
Real nice. You're making a great case for your side.

Or as I like to put it...


omg JOOTIES!!!!!

[Pure Argent]

Even better (or worse, really), the passage he quoted is from Hitler's Mein Kampf!

Yes, I know. I don't think this is the first time he has quoted Hitler. I don't think Saggy is physically capable of surprising me anymore.

[ANTPogo]

Yes, I know. I don't think this is the first time he has quoted Hitler.

Yeah, I think he pulled out the same quote in one of the other threads. They all tend to blur together for me at this point, though.

I don't think Saggy is physically capable of surprising me anymore.

I have to admit, the blatant nature of it (especially given the context of the thread conversation he dropped it into) made me stare at it like...well, like this, actually: :eek:

[Pure Argent]

Yes, that was my reaction too. Saggy actually managed to Godwin a thread about the Holocaust.

[dafydd]

Yes, that was my reaction too. Saggy actually managed to Godwin a thread about the Holocaust.

We have yet to reach the bottom of Saggy's ignorance and stupidity.

[TSR]

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We really need a "point and laugh" emoticon....
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