EVP Reverse speech, Owls, and Reptilians?

[Marshmallow]

Someone sent me this link to prove to me that the Fourth Kind is accurate and the reptilian conspiracy is real. What this person didn't attempt to prove to me, however, is the validity of reverse speech.

Anyway, this is the website of a woman named Peggy Kane who claims that by reversing audio, she is listening to the Universal Mind and that the truth of each statement can be found by listening in reverse. She says that she listens to each word VERY carefully to find what they are truly saying.

Do these sound like anything at all to you when you listen very carefully (as the woman claims to have done)?

I can't figure out how language would even work that way, but anyway...this woman apparently finds a lot of messages about owls as a malevolent force...as well as stuff that supposedly supports her reptilian beliefs. So, how do I prove to him that there's no validity to this?

http://www.evpreversespeaking.com/2009/09/09/comparing-metaphor-meanings-between-reverse-speech-and-reverse-speaking-the-owl/

Actually, this one sounds pretty close (lol)

It's about Sylvia Browne. It says, "See owl now making millions for Satan."

http://www.evpreversespeaking.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/copy-of-sylvia-see-owl-now-making-millions-for-satan.mp3

But isn't that still pareidolia?

[Fnord]

Paul is Dead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead).

[Fiona]

It seems to me that this is a philosophical dispute between crazy people: until they can reach an agreement about meaning I don't think we need to get excited, do we?

Very entertaining, but there are matters of almost equal importance demanding my attention

*goes back to trying to count the angels dancing on this pin: Keep still, dammit!*

[Marshmallow]

Lol...I forgot about that one. Heh...knowing this conspiracy theorist, he'd probably say something like, "He IS dead...that's not the real Paul. He was replaced by a reptilian shapeshifter." *groans*

Some of these do sound like what she's claiming they say, so I think that's enough for him to latch onto. But some of them could be about a guy named Al.

How do I get him to see the truth about this stuff so he'll shut up about it and stop spouting all this crazy stuff? For a while I bought into his conspiracy crap because he was very convincing. But it seemed more and more inconsistent the closer I looked at it. He won't accept that people can stop believing in this stuff without being "brainwashed."

I want him to be able to lead a normal life...one where he isn't filled with paranoia and dread about unseen forces secretly ruling the world. Maybe he should just get medical help.

Edit: Upon closer examination of the site, there appear to be hundreds of audio reversals with the world "Owl." Doesn't that just mean it's a common sound or something?

I really want to debunk this because most of his beliefs are now hinging on this reverse speech stuff.

[Fiona]

If you are told what to expect to hear then very often that is what you will hear: but it does not mean it is there. If it is played with no set up you will not hear the words she hears: or any words, often

[shandyjan]

If you are told what to expect to hear then very often that is what you will hear: but it does not mean it is there. If it is played with no set up you will not hear the words she hears: or any words, often

That is so true! Listen to a pile of the hidden word audios without reading what youre meant to hear. You miss most of them! Once youre told...you hear it! Funny that!

[Marshmallow]

That's true. And the woman obviously reads up on conspiracy theories. It doesn't seem much of a stretch to think that maybe the stuff she hears is greatly influenced by what she reads. But how do I get him to see that?

Maybe I should just leave him to it, but I'm worried about him. He used to be a nice, normal guy before he believed this stuff. I admit to falling for some of his stuff for a while (hence my earlier posts), but I just can't take it anymore.

Did you guys listen to any of these reversals? What does this stuff sound like to you? The "owl" sound seems to be quite common. I wonder what words create that sound.

[realpaladin]

*goes back to trying to count the angels dancing on this pin: Keep still, dammit!*

You got to freeze them with NOX first. That's what I always do.

[realpaladin]

Someone sent me this link to prove to me that the Fourth Kind is accurate and the reptilian conspiracy is real.

Can you send me that link as well?

[Marshmallow]

Oops, I made a typing error in my post. The specifically reptilian stuff was in another link (I'll see if I can find it). The one I posted was just his attempt to prove this stuff about the Fourth Kind (with the owls being aliens in disguise and all that crap).

Edit: Actually, the whole website is absolutely FULL of reversals about reptilians, if you want a better idea of the kind of stuff he's been going on about.

[realpaladin]

Oops, I made a typing error in my post. The specifically reptilian stuff was in another link (I'll see if I can find it). The one I posted was just his attempt to prove this stuff about the Fourth Kind (with the owls being aliens in disguise and all that crap).

Edit: Actually, the whole website is absolutely FULL of reversals about reptilians, if you want a better idea of the kind of stuff he's been going on about.

Sounds like a phobia :)

[Marshmallow]

I suppose it could be called a phobia when paranoia gets to such an extreme level. But he also seems to feel a sort of pride "knowing" that he's one of the few to "know the truth". Not that he's ever said that in so many words...but it's a feeling I get.

[Soapy Sam]

You may find this site interesting.
It's about "Sine speech" . Just have a listen

http://www.lifesci.sussex.ac.uk/home/Chris_Darwin/SWS/

[JcR]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/283964b77a8d6c997b.gif
The long sticky tongue is used to gather Subterranean creatures burrowed deep down in logs, mounds, and under city streets. Then after feasting, the manhole covers are put back into place . For a more complete story of the Bushynum why not contact the Canadian Wildlife Services in Ottawa.

[Irish Murdoch]

Edit: Upon closer examination of the site, there appear to be hundreds of audio reversals with the world "Owl." Doesn't that just mean it's a common sound or something?


(a) Why on earth should this happen? That is, why should reverse speech tell us something important? I think we're owed an explanation before we go pretending to hear things in it.

(b) Presumably, if it really happens, it should work in other languages. If we reverse German speech, do we find lots of references to Eulen (the German for "owls")?

(c) I feel rather sorry for the owls, being maligned in this way.

[Irish Murdoch]

I suppose it could be called a phobia when paranoia gets to such an extreme level. But he also seems to feel a sort of pride "knowing" that he's one of the few to "know the truth". Not that he's ever said that in so many words...but it's a feeling I get.

I think you have to remember that it's notoriously difficult to reason people out of beliefs that they haven't been reasoned into in the first place. I hate to be defeatist, but you may be on to a loser from the very beginning .....

[Irish Murdoch]

Another point occurs to me. I've just been reading up on reverse speech on www.skepdic.com. There we read:

"[David John] Oates, who credits himself with the discovery of reverse speech, says that the unconscious mind sends out backwards messages to the conscious mind every 10 to 15 seconds. The conscious mind then reverses the reverse message and directs us to speak in forward speech."

And, in Oates's own words:

"It occurs every time we speak and is imbedded backwards into the sounds of our speech. This previously undiscovered function of the mind is the mind's own independant [sic] voice speaking from the deepest regions of consciousness ..." (my emphasis)

OK. The claim seems to be that the sentences we come out with in everyday life are simply encodings of messages that are to be found when we reverse them. That's all they are; they are, if you like, merely the vehicles of what is really being said. But if that's the case, it seems that we have no reason to believe anything that is spoken forwards--it has no special claim to truth, since it exists only to state a truth that is revealed when we reverse it.

But then here's the crunch: statements about the truth of reverse speech seem to be made in forwards speech. That being the case, we have no reason to believe them. In other words, Oates's view undermines itself.

For instance, when Oates says something like "This previously undiscovered function of the mind is the mind's own independent voice speaking from the deepest regions of consciousness", he's really saying something completely different. Thus, we can't take his forward speech seriously. And if we can't take his forwards speech seriously, then we can't trust the claim that he's really saying something different. What a logical tangle!

[Marshmallow]

I've been spending some more time on that site, looking for ways to debunk it that even he can't argue with.

That's interesting, Soapy Sam. I don't think I've heard of sine speech before.

I don't like the look of those Bushynum *hides* :boxedin:

I don't know reverse speech would happen, myself. Her explanation is something vague about the universal mind or something. Maybe I can find it again on the site. And according to this woman, if you reverse people in other languages, you will still hear messages in your own language. She doesn't even bother to explain how that one is supposed to work. Here's the link:

http://www.evpreversespeaking.com/2009/12/13/chinese-spiral-and-chinese-speaker-reversed/

Why did owls have suddenly become evil after such a long time of being symbols of wisdom?

Also, this woman claims to have thousands of reversed messages about her listening to reversals, some along the lines of, "shut up, Peggy's listening," and some that just say "Peggy listen". So, yeah, it's definitely the universal mind theory that she's going with...not that she explains how it manipulates the way people speak. :boggled:

I think you have to remember that it's notoriously difficult to reason people out of beliefs that they haven't been reasoned into in the first place. I hate to be defeatist, but you may be on to a loser from the very beginning .....
That's what I'm afraid of...

And whoa. That stuff about David John Oates' take on it is confusing. I'm not sure that this Peggy woman views it the same way, though.

[ExMinister]

As other people have pointed out, it's easy to hear things that you are specifically looking for. About all you can probably do is let your friend know that without proof that reverse speech has any validity in the first place, you do not consider it helpful in proving the validity of anything else.

She says that she listens to each word VERY carefully to find what they are truly saying.



Some people have way too much time on their hands.

[Sledge]

I've never understood this... idea? Lunacy? Whatever. If you can only know what someone is saying by listening to it backwards, does that mean that we mentally run some sort of decoding routine on everything we here? And why would language evolve that way in the first place? Basically, what kind of loon do you have to be to think this is remotely plausible?

[mikeyx]

Someone sent me this link to prove to me that the Fourth Kind is accurate and the reptilian conspiracy is real. What this person didn't attempt to prove to me, however, is the validity of reverse speech.

Anyway, this is the website of a woman named Peggy Kane who claims that by reversing audio, she is listening to the Universal Mind and that the truth of each statement can be found by listening in reverse. She says that she listens to each word VERY carefully to find what they are truly saying.

Do these sound like anything at all to you when you listen very carefully (as the woman claims to have done)?

I can't figure out how language would even work that way, but anyway...this woman apparently finds a lot of messages about owls as a malevolent force...as well as stuff that supposedly supports her reptilian beliefs. So, how do I prove to him that there's no validity to this?

http://www.evpreversespeaking.com/2009/09/09/comparing-metaphor-meanings-between-reverse-speech-and-reverse-speaking-the-owl/

Actually, this one sounds pretty close (lol)

It's about Sylvia Browne. It says, "See owl now making millions for Satan."

http://www.evpreversespeaking.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/copy-of-sylvia-see-owl-now-making-millions-for-satan.mp3

But isn't that still pareidolia?

So you are seriously suggesting the Reptilians are not real?

[Marshmallow]

I am sorry for taking so long to post here. Just wanted to tell you guys that I finally broke off contact with this guy. It was too much for me. Thanks for all your help, though. It turns out that people will believe what they are inclined to believe and they are the only ones who can change their beliefs.

[Belgian thought]

:) ! about talking are you what idea No

[Pure Argent]

But isn't that still pareidolia?

Yes.

I don't know reverse speech would happen, myself. Her explanation is something vague about the universal mind or something.

"Universal mind" is a woo key phrase that should set off warning bells every time it comes up. Once someone starts babbling about that, you can be pretty sure that no more rational discussion is going to take place.

And according to this woman, if you reverse people in other languages, you will still hear messages in your own language.

Yep. Pareidolia, like you said.

I am sorry for taking so long to post here. Just wanted to tell you guys that I finally broke off contact with this guy. It was too much for me. Thanks for all your help, though. It turns out that people will believe what they are inclined to believe and they are the only ones who can change their beliefs.

Well, I'm glad that you go through this without the panic from earlier threads. You're getting better at this!
Welcome to the real world, Marshmallow. Happy to have you.

:wave1

[Comrade Raptor]

:) ! about talking are you what idea No


Witch! Witch!

[Psi Baba]

How interesting that the "messages" in reverse speech and EVP are always in the language of the person listening for them.

[Maia]

How interesting that the "messages" in reverse speech and EVP are always in the language of the person listening for them.

Yes, it's interesting, all right. :P I posted a link in another Peggy Kane thread to a Youtube video about her... they're not exactly difficult to find, let's just say. Some of the messages are a little TOO easy to make out, IMHO. You know, there's just nothing to stop someone from sitting around in the basement with a tape recorder and whispering into it with a sock over her mouth and making ghosty "ooo" noises (which seems to be about the level of technology involved) and I think that's what's going on here at least some of the time.

[dropzone]

Why did owls have suddenly become evil after such a long time of being symbols of wisdom?The Owl is the symbol of Athena, Minerva, Isis, and The Goddess going back to cave paintings. As Mary is a current manifestation of The Goddess, this is a reaction to Catholic Marianists by Jesus-centric Christians.

And I wish I wasn't making that up from the whole cloth. Only scraps. :boggled:

[Marshmallow]

Thank you, Pure Argent. To be honest, I've been through some extremely rough times these past couple of years. I've had so much to be incredibly anxious about (in the real world - not just this conspiracy theory crap), and it's not easy to keep a level head when you're that full of fear and someone's telling you stuff about conspiracy theories on top of all that.
---
Maia, I hadn't considered the idea that she might be manipulating the reverse by using her own voice. That's interesting. I do know that she sometimes cuts out syllables.
---
dropzone: It's interesting how far this symbol goes back as goddess symbol. It's also interesting how it's suddenly popular to look at owls as evil creatures.
---

The guy (whose real name I don't want to reveal over the Internet, so I'll just call him the guy) has still sent me a couple of e-mails, even though I have cut him out of my life and asked0 him not to contact me. I haven't responded to the e-mails, but I my curiosity is so strong that I just had to take a look. He has sent me a youtube video of an Obama speech...complete with backwards messages that it's supposed to have.

Some of you are probably familiar with it. It's the one where Obama supposedly says "Thank you Satan" as well as some random gibberish (something about a grandma? :confused: ). But when you really listen to it isn't really "Thank you Satan." It's "nack you say".

And because in one portion of the backmasking (I think that's what it's called) it sounds like Obama says "ay-zeus". So according to him, Obama worships Zeus. He sent me this thing about how Jesus/Iesus really means "hail Zeus."
Apparently "Ie" means "hail." He included a link documenting this.

How can someone start out as a normal guy with normal interests and turn into a paranoid crazy person?

He says he's sending me this information because he's worried I'll buy into organized religion. He can't be as worried about me as I am about him.

And I know it's not healthy to read these e-mails from him, but it's like a car crash - it's hard to look away for some reason. I hate to admit it, but there's a part of me that's now a bit paranoid about saying the name "Jesus." I should probably just block his address.

[Lucian]

The Owl is the symbol of Athena, Minerva, Isis, and The Goddess going back to cave paintings. As Mary is a current manifestation of The Goddess, this is a reaction to Catholic Marianists by Jesus-centric Christians.

And I wish I wasn't making that up from the whole cloth. Only scraps. :boggled:

On top of that, owls have had negative associations for centuries. They are (mostly) nocturnal hunters and many have eerie calls; they sometimes can be found in graveyards, so they are associated with darkness and death and are sometimes considered birds of ill-omen. Basically, I think they just creep some people out.

[bruto]

It seems to me that this is a philosophical dispute between crazy people: until they can reach an agreement about meaning I don't think we need to get excited, do we?

Very entertaining, but there are matters of almost equal importance demanding my attention

*goes back to trying to count the angels dancing on this pin: Keep still, dammit!*You're wasting your time counting them. You need to prove they're "dancing" first and not just trying to avoid being mobbed by the ones already there."

[Pure Argent]

Thank you, Pure Argent. To be honest, I've been through some extremely rough times these past couple of years. I've had so much to be incredibly anxious about (in the real world - not just this conspiracy theory crap), and it's not easy to keep a level head when you're that full of fear and someone's telling you stuff about conspiracy theories on top of all that.

Well, you look to be getting the hang of it. Keep it up!

[Ducky]

I was a professional sound engineer and musician for the better part of 12 years. I never cease to be amazed at people making up fantastic stories about equipment they don't understand. Now, as I work as a UNIX administrator I see the same thing with people and computers. People anthropomorphize anything technical they don't understand the workings of.

I emailed with Bob Carrol for a while many years ago and he quoted me in an article on EVP that is pretty good (even if the one site I singled out is no longer.)

http://www.skepdic.com/evp.html

[Maja]

He sent me this thing about how Jesus/Iesus really means "hail Zeus."
Apparently "Ie" means "hail." He included a link documenting this.
[...]
I hate to admit it, but there's a part of me that's now a bit paranoid about saying the name "Jesus." I should probably just block his address.
Marshmallow, if you're still feeling a bit paranoid about this, please consider the fact that you're talking about Jesus' English name, which is based on (but pronounced differently than) his Latin name. But his original name in Hebrew/Aramaic was Yeshua or Yehoshua, which means "Yahweh rescues". The Greek and Latin versions of the name Jesus were based on that, and in turn influenced the names for Jesus in other languages. It's a name with a clear meaning -- there is no need to look for sinister hidden meanings in it.
(I don't think Zeus is sinister myself, but I suppose that is a matter of personal opinion.)

[Stray Cat]

skcollob fo tol a tahW

[Alley Cat]

skcollob fo tol a tahWuoY era oS revelc. uoY nac kaeps elohw secnetnes sdrawkcab :jaw-dropp

[Alice Shortcake]

!Nam daed, no em nrut!

[Stray Cat]

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/Redrum1-1.jpg

[23_Tauri]

Dyslexic stable lad keeping prize racehorses in his bedroom?

[Stray Cat]

He's in there giving it a sound whipping... yup he's flogging a dead horse.*


*Reading that back to myself, it sounds like it may contain sexual innuendo, I would like to point out that that is purely coincidental.

[23_Tauri]

Like flogging a dead Gay Rodeo blimp, only more humane (on the rest of us).

[Marduk]

He's in there giving it a sound whipping... yup he's flogging a dead horse.*


*Reading that back to myself, it sounds like it may contain sexual innuendo, I would like to point out that that is purely coincidental.

Flogging/Whipping is erotic not sexual, trevrep uoy
:D