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Stereolab
15th January 2004, 12:27 AM
You put your hand on the Bible and swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. What if the Bible means nothing to you? If the prosecutor finds evidence that you're an atheist, can that be used to attack your credibility?

MRC_Hans
15th January 2004, 12:38 AM
I would expect that the law is made so that swearing on the Bible is legally binding, even if you are an atheist. Presumably you can refuse to swear on the Bible, stating religious reasons, and they will have some sort of secular oath instead. In my neck of the woods, you do not swear on the Bible in court.

Hans

neutrino_cannon
15th January 2004, 12:40 AM
Neg, Cecil Adams covers this over at Straightdope, but I'm too lazy to look up the exact link right now.

Nyarlathotep
15th January 2004, 12:49 AM
As I understand it, most places no longer require people to swear on the bible, nor do they make you say "so help me God" they merely require you to state that you swear to tell the truth. so that part is pretty much a non-issue.

The thing that would worry me, though, is if the prosecutor found out that I was an atheist, casually dropped it into conversation and used it to imply to a jury that I was less than trustworthy. Not being a lawyer myself I don't know whether that would be something he could get away with but if I ever found myself in such a situation I would hope my own lawyer ws good enough to counter it.

Another thing that worries me is that Chani and I have considered taking in foster children when we get a bigger place and/or our own children begin to move out. I have privately wondered if the relevant agencies might not hold our atheism against us, not on an official level but more on the level of the appropriate caseworker deciding that they would do everything in their power to block a couple of Godless heathens like us from taking in kids. That seems to me a very likely scenario

Darat
15th January 2004, 05:13 AM
In England and Wales it is known as "affirmation", used by anyone who will not or cannot take an oath on the Christian Bible.

It is meant to be the equivalent of the "religious" oath but I have often wondered if a jury (or at least some members of a jury) could be influenced by the fact that someone didn't swear on the bible.

Upchurch
15th January 2004, 06:42 AM
Swearing to God is sort of moot when you have laws against purgery. Atheists don't have to worry about God's wraith, but they do have to worry about the judge's.

INRM
15th January 2004, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Upchurch
Swearing to God is sort of moot when you have laws against purgery. Atheists don't have to worry about God's wraith, but they do have to worry about the judge's.

Or the D.A.'s...

INRM
15th January 2004, 08:43 AM
(posted twice, disregard this post)

DVFinn
15th January 2004, 08:51 AM
In the US the courts have different oaths for different faiths. Non-Christians are not required to swear on a bible and merely affirm an oath to tell the truth. The whole bible thing is one of those throwback traditions that are still observed under the guise of "Ceremonial Deism"

The more important question, whether or not religious faith can be used against you, is trickier. While it isn't officially relevant it doesn't win points with most juries or judges to know you're an atheist. While a prosecutor can't introduce this information without reason they've been known to slip it in. At that point it's the judges call as to whether the information will cause undo bias against you.

It's cost many atheists custody of their children amoung other things.

neutrino_cannon
15th January 2004, 03:35 PM
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_145.html

scribble
15th January 2004, 04:08 PM
I'm too lazy to click on the links, and just in case anyone else is a lazy bastard like I am, I'll give you the answer right here.

No one swears on the Bible in court except on television.

It's that simple. It's a non issue. They don't mention God, either. They just ask, "Do you swear to tell the truth?"

DVFinn
15th January 2004, 06:55 PM
I pulled Jury duty a few months back here in mississippi. The whole jury swore an oath to god, except me. I waited until they were done and the juge repeated the Oath sans the god reference for me to affirm. All the witnesses swore in while the deputy held a black book beneath their outstreched hand. I assume it was a bible, but I supose since this is the good ol south it may have been the shop manual for a Ford f-150.

This may not be the standard anymore, but it's still common practice in some court systems.

Abdul Alhazred
15th January 2004, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Darat
In England and Wales it is known as "affirmation", used by anyone who will not or cannot take an oath on the Christian Bible.

It is meant to be the equivalent of the "religious" oath but I have often wondered if a jury (or at least some members of a jury) could be influenced by the fact that someone didn't swear on the bible.

In the USA, this situation comes up often with people whose religion forbids swearing oaths, such as Mennonites or Jehovah's Witnesses.

evildave
15th January 2004, 10:47 PM
The one time I was nearly empanelled onto a jury, the plaintif's lawyer was so transparently and repeatedly Jesus-ing the courtroom that the Judge told him to tone it down.

I was dismissed by the judge for unrelated reasons*. The point is, that yes, with a panel of mostly (or all) Christians, all of that appeal-to-God stuff probably does have an impact.

Of course, on me it was purely negative. Whether or not the plaintiffs had a valid case, I was prejudiced heavily agains them by the summary.

My experience: The more often a salesman puts "Jesus" into a sentence, the more likely he's crooked. With lawyers, it's only a matter of degree.


* Dismissed because of...

Judge: "If you find that you disagree with a law, would you still vote according to that law?"

Me: (Quick assessment, then assertive) "No." (There are obviously many kinds of laws I would disregard as a juror, under various circumstances.)

Judge: (Quick, brief statement about law being important to him, not having time to probe every possible thing that could cause me to vote against the law, dismisses me on the spot).

Note: Using this as a "tactic" may only work in Madera County, CA. Most judges would not ask such a question.

calladus
17th January 2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
The thing that would worry me, though, is if the prosecutor found out that I was an atheist, casually dropped it into conversation and used it to imply to a jury that I was less than trustworthy. Not being a lawyer myself I don't know whether that would be something he could get away with but if I ever found myself in such a situation I would hope my own lawyer ws good enough to counter it.

I think the prosecutor would do this at his peril - if the jury had not been vetted of non-believers, there would most likely be at least one. Could result in a hung jury?