Has your atheism cost you? [Archive]

jimmygun

15th January 2004, 07:21 PM

Years ago I was in training for scout leadership. When I found out that belief in a god was a pre-requisite for the scouting program I had to demure. I was trained in leadership, willing and avid (having gone through all the scouting from Cubs to Rovers).

End result? I was told if I pretended to believe in god I could become a leader. Sorry, no can do.

Ever been denied because of your non-faith?

BroodingSkill

15th January 2004, 07:34 PM

I can't say that I have yet, but then again I don't exactly adverstise my lack of belief either. I tend to push or at least slightly nudge people with skepticism, and try not to bring religion into the discussion.

Monketey Ghost

15th January 2004, 08:00 PM

A few women prospects.

Checkmite

15th January 2004, 08:08 PM

I became a leader after I turned 18. It's true that in order to become a leader you had to believe in a god, but for some reason nobody ever asked me about my religious persuasion, nor was there anything on the application. No matter....being a Deist of the Paine variety, I was covered at the time (hey, they didn't say which god). Now, I'm not quite as sure of my beliefs anymore...however, I haven't completely abandoned them, or Scouting.

canadarocks

15th January 2004, 08:10 PM

Not as yet (fingers crossed). I got married in a Catholic church after receiving a special dispensation (read gave money to the church as pay-off), although the priest did want to baptize me (which I refused).

I also was a leader in Cub Scouts, but never learned of the "must believe in God" thing until I was in for 2 years. After that, I just avoided any questions about it.

T'ai Chi

15th January 2004, 08:34 PM

I must believe in some god to rub two sticks together to make fire or to string popcorn?

Completely stupid.

Suezoled

15th January 2004, 08:42 PM

Girl Scouts had that too. Believe in god. or something stupid.

Yahweh

15th January 2004, 09:40 PM

I've been denied certain Internet Forums and most problematically the right to traditional Integrity (Evil Atheists cant have morals!).

I notice that most of the folks my age tend to have strong religious views (usually without the know-how to support their views). Folks my age tend to enjoy name-calling. That's caused a few problems before (call me crazy, but I usually dont like my "Earth is 4.5 billion years old" arguments being countered with an argument that sounds like "Sci-en-tists have proved the dust on the moon is too thin, sci-en-tists!"... *sigh*).

Kilted_Canuck

15th January 2004, 09:55 PM

Meh, I was in Scouts Canada for the past....holy crap 12 years! I just quit this year because there wasn't enough scuba diving going on in my company, and the head office in Ottawa is being too commercial. (thats the simplified explanation).

I've never really believed in a god, but I went from beavers, to cubs, to scouts, to ventures without really reciting a prayer, just mumbling it on the off time we were at a large camp where a service was held. (luckily, my group was very nonreligious) I even earned the Chief Scout's Award, similar to the American Eagle Scout, without having to be a churchgoing christian. Rather than discuss my religion with a member of the clergy, I wrote a long report about world religion.*

*I threatened to start my own cult and consult myself, but the leaders prefered I stuck to non-sacreligious stuff for my award requirements. :)

evildave

15th January 2004, 10:28 PM

What? I get an open schedule on the weekend, no tithing, and I'm not *required* to believe any particular thing.

It hasn't really ever cost me. I got in trouble a couple of times (which was trivial trouble at that). Much of this has been social and temporary.

However, planning ahead, ever more religious people act offended when confronted by any atheistic discussion anywhere near them, and keying off of the "Sexual Harrassment" phenomena/paranoia, we can extrapolate to "Religious Harrassment" readily enough.

http://apatheticagnostic.com/Essays/reflections/reflection17.html

So, theoretically, there's trouble to be had, and yet another interesting "tactic" to quell most kinds of religious discussion.

So, don't bring up religion (or lack thereof) at the office. Bad Juju. Seek appropriate venues for such discussion, but don't bring them up where people can overhear and act offended.

Voob

15th January 2004, 10:35 PM

I've been doomed to an eternity in hell.

Or maybe not.

Dorian Gray

15th January 2004, 11:07 PM

It has cost me nothing. Plus, everyone is a little bit theist during sex.......

BillyJoe

16th January 2004, 03:32 AM

No.

Apart from my wife and more recently my kids, no one really
knows. All the people I come into contact with through work just assume I am a Christian but no one ever seems to actually ask.

Obviously I don't wear it like a label. After all, it's more like a
non-label. It's all those others who have labels.

BillyJoe

BillyJoe

16th January 2004, 03:33 AM

jimmygun

16th January 2004, 03:59 AM

I was told at the time that I would have to lead the pack in prayers. I said I could not in good concience do that. Until the leadership program I kept my place (biting my tongue) about religion, I simply did not partake. However, at a time when Scouts Canada was crying for leaders I was told that expressing a belief in god was paramount to becoming a leader. I had to choose between hypocracy or my own beliefs. Its too bad the kids suffered for that decision but so be it. I do still help out from time to time, in the background.

I also investigated becoming a Mason but the same thing there too...you must profess a belief in a supreme being. Again I was told...'Just pretend'. No can do, sorry.

LFTKBS

16th January 2004, 06:10 AM

I have a uh . . . personal acquaintance . . . who I may have to know for a very long time who's a SuperChristian and she's actually very sweet and kind etc etc but also I can tell I'm going to have to hear her talk about Jesus once every two weeks or so for the rest of my life.

So I guess it has cost me the right not to be hassled.

Gregor

16th January 2004, 06:38 AM

Cost me? You bet it's cost me.

If I were a Xian, I'd buy one book in my life - the Bible. I'd never have to buy another Bible, cause it rarely gets really used - it's just kind of opened and closed to whatever passage the minister says to read that Sunday.

But not me, no.

I have to buy On the Origin of Species. The Age of Reason. Mack's Who Wrote the New Testament. Friedman's Who Wrote the Bible. Ute Heinken's Put Away Childish Things. and on, and on.

This thinking stuff can get expensive.

And LFTKBS - right there with you buddy. Every Sunday - for three hours.

c4ts

16th January 2004, 07:22 AM

It cost me the rank of "Unblinking Eye" in the Illuminata.

Just kidding, we're all atheists anyway.

Correa Neto

16th January 2004, 07:54 AM

Mild to moderate trouble ate two places where I worked and where I nowdays work.

Some sort of "eek-like look" in the faces of some people that asked in what I belive.

My soul, according to some.

BTW, I am agnostic, and this also causes problems...

tedly

16th January 2004, 11:03 AM

I didn't realise there'd be so many Scout leaders here. I don't make a big fuss about being a non believer, I don't usually mention things I'm not. But one of the kids in Scouts - I lead Venturers- announced he was an atheist. He was advised that he has to admit any belief in a power greater than himself.

I've decided to believe in the weak magnetic force. Or gravity, depending on the day of the week.

DVFinn

16th January 2004, 11:08 AM

I'm pretty vocal about my atheism but I tone it down at work unless someone asks. I figure that I don't want to be sermonized by christians at work so they shouldn't have to listen to my thoughts on the subject. If they ask though I take it as an invitation.

My atheism has cost me firndships with people I wouldn't want as friends. Since those have no value to me anyway I'd say it's cost me nothing of signifigance.

My atheism has gained me an outlook on life that affords me peace and hope. I no longer have to reconcile reality with the ridiculous presumptions of superstition based belief systems. I can live my life according to sensible morals and pursue happiness as I define it for myself.

I am happy as an atheist. Whatever it has cost me has been worth it.

Zero

16th January 2004, 11:20 AM

It has cost me a fiancee, a couple of potential girlfriends, and a few friendships. No biggie, I don't need those sorts of people in my life anyways, right?

c4ts

16th January 2004, 11:31 AM

Hey, you can always lie about your beliefs and steer away from religious discussions with girlfriends.

pgwenthold

16th January 2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Zero
It has cost me a fiancee, a couple of potential girlfriends, and a few friendships. No biggie, I don't need those sorts of people in my life anyways, right?

Well, not all at once, I'm guessing (at least for the first part)

Corey

16th January 2004, 11:42 AM

Not especially, no. I don't really discuss my beliefs or the fact that I'm an atheist very often. I make jokes with my wife or close friends about it from time to time, but I have a pretty dark sense of humor (as do they). I don't involve myself in any activities where it's an issue. I work in my family's business and they're not especially religious, though not atheists by any stretch, and we generally agree to disagree on some things. I play music in a couple bands, some of the other people in them are slightly religious but it's not really an issue and none of them are especially aggressive about their beliefs. In general though I don't bring it up unless it's directly asked or it's pertinent to a conversation. I don't consider being an atheist to be the core of my personality and/or life, just a part of it and it hasn't been much of an issue in most cases.

Upchurch

16th January 2004, 01:04 PM

Aw, carp. I wish I'd seen this thread before starting this one (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34004). Might have been able to work it in.

The only thing my atheism ever really cost me was one girlfriend (or was it her fundamentalism?) and I'm really better of because of it.

calladus

17th January 2004, 04:33 PM

It cost me a new Darwin Fish from EvolveFish.com, and a long key scrape down the side of my truck. (They happened at the same time, so I have this theory that the two actions were related.) However, I'm not known for keeping my vehicles in pristine condition, so I don't think too many people have actually noticed the scratch.

My wife, however, drives a nice looking car, and won't let me put a Darwin Fish on it - too afraid of damage.

I'm okay at work - I have a "Get Out Of Hell Free" card and several skeptic pieces on my bullitin board. No one has commented about them. But I'm an engineer in an extremely diverse group of engineers - most of which are various flavors of skeptic or non-believer. No hassles.

At the risk of sounding classist, the only 3 or 4 people at work who have ever given me flack for being athiest are those who are under educated or low paid (or both). Although there are plenty at that level that are polite (or even agree with me).

thaiboxerken

17th January 2004, 06:25 PM

Since becoming atheist, I've lost some things. Here are a couple:

1. Homophobia. Now I'm mature enough to realize that there is nothing wrong with homosexual people.

2. Racism. I now realize that it's ok for black and white people to date, or even marry.

thaiboxerken

17th January 2004, 06:30 PM

My wife, however, drives a nice looking car, and won't let me put a Darwin Fish on it - too afraid of damage.

I'm okay at work - I have a "Get Out Of Hell Free" card and several skeptic pieces on my bullitin board. No one has commented about them. But I'm an engineer in an extremely diverse group of engineers - most of which are various flavors of skeptic or non-believer. No hassles.

Yea, I would love to have a Darwin Fish on my car too. However, I don't want that damage either.

I work in a technical field and most engineers and techs at my workplace are agnostic or atheist. Even those with religions have more of a deistic attitude towards it. I think scientific thinking has something to do with it.

c4ts

17th January 2004, 11:19 PM

I'd put a Darwin fish on my car, but I'm in Greensboro which is full of Baptists so I'd probably get cut off all the time.

evildave

18th January 2004, 02:41 AM

Nah, it'd just get keyed in the parking lot a lot.

RabbiSatan

18th January 2004, 04:25 AM

Is there some sort of antagonism over there towards those Darwinfish bumper stickers? I've only ever really been in Asia, and I've no knowledge of the attitudes of Christians over there.

I work in a technical field and most engineers and techs at my workplace are agnostic or atheist. Even those with religions have more of a deistic attitude towards it. I think scientific thinking has something to do with it.

Probably so - Most of my relatives that I currently live with now have never been outside of Thailand, and practice their own form of amalgamated Buddhist religion and live quiet simplistic lives, and have no experience of travelling (Going to Kashmir, N. Korea...etc) and being exposed to different cultures (They even believe Nostradamus predicted 9/11).

But to the question pertaining the thread - I'm sure that my atheism has costed me faux happiness from ignorance, friendships with other believers, and an unterbulent life - but I don't regret it one bit, and I'm all the better for it.

BillyJoe

18th January 2004, 04:27 AM

I have never seen a Darwin fish on a car in Australia.

sorgoth

18th January 2004, 08:29 AM

I had a couple of friends who were weirded out, but then I turned them over to the dark side. :D

Seriously, though, it's cost me pretty much nothing.

And I quit scouts, because I HATED it.

c4ts

18th January 2004, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by BillyJoe
I have never seen a Darwin fish on a car in Australia.

Neither have I, but that's because I've never been to Australia.

BillyJoe

19th January 2004, 03:16 AM

Originally posted by c4ts
Neither have I, but that's because I've never been to Australia. Well that's not my fault. :cool:

Ladewig

19th January 2004, 08:09 AM

Yea, I would love to have a Darwin Fish on my car too. However, I don't want that damage either.

Me too, although I would have gone with the bumper sticker that says, "If you don't pray in my school, I won't think in your church." Many Texans describe the state as the Buckle of the Bible Belt - and as Dave Atell says, "that's the end that it hurts most to get hit with."

Zero

19th January 2004, 09:04 AM

Thanks guys!!

I had almost forgot that my atheism has cost me $7.50 for a Darwin Fish!

Corey

19th January 2004, 10:55 AM

I live in central California, where Darwin fish are just about as common as the christian counterpart. Never heard of anyone around here being vandalized or anything for it. Not that there aren't TONS of fundamentalist christians here...but it's far from being the bible belt. I don't have one personally, not being a fan of bumper-sticker philosophy.

Upchurch

19th January 2004, 01:14 PM

$29.95 in annual dues. It's a bargin at twice the price!

Reverend Mykeru

19th January 2004, 02:45 PM

Get the hankies out. You see, there was this woman I was dating in Baltimore...

Oh, wait, I've got a picture for this:

American Jebus (http://www.mykeru.com/assets/images/jebus/american_jebus.jpg).

Plus the usual stuff with people ripping the Darwin Fish off my car.

Azathoth

19th January 2004, 04:57 PM

My best friend in high school got much more religious just after graduation. He eventually cut off communication with me, for fear that I would taint him in some way. He was already turning into kind of a jerk by the end of junior year anyway.

Every once in a while, one of my friends will get pissed off at something I say on our group e-mail list, but it blows over for the most part. I do note that there seems to be an inner cabal within my group of friends. I am one of the pariahs who doesn't get invited to certain parties, etc. But that may be more because I drink a lot, swear a lot and haven't produced any spawn.

Oh, and I shelled out a few bucks for this:

http://www.northernsun.com/nsm/images/thumb/2239Science.jpg

Agammamon

20th January 2004, 10:57 AM

Well I was verbally reprimanded once because I didn't bow my head during an invocation openeing a change of command. We were in formation and it was a bit noticable. I merely explained my views and told the Chief that there was no way in Hades that I would ever do it for any reason and if it was important to him we could take it all the way up the coc.
The subject was dropped and hasn't ever come up again anywhere else. Of course the fact that I had/have a reputation as being a fairly intelligent guy who actually knows what the UCMJ allows and forbids helped, along with being known as some sort of nutjob who actually is interested in what the politicians are doing on my dime.

EdipisReks

20th January 2004, 03:18 PM

my Evil Atheist monthly dues went up again. that would be fine, but the news letter has really gone down in quality.

Jas

20th January 2004, 03:28 PM

I have the "Devil" fish on my car, instead of "Darwin".

It's made for some pretty interesting driving, though my car did get keyed once. The (I'm assuming) same folks also tried to remove it, yet only succeded in breaking off half the tail. Which is fine, since I was going to replace it soon anyways (almost two years of carwashes have taken their toll, and it's not very shiny anymore).

Although it kind of freaks me out when they follow me home.

LizardPeople

20th January 2004, 03:38 PM

I'm a coward. I bought a Darwin fish for the car and it's ended up permanently attached to my refrigerator instead.

LizardPeople

20th January 2004, 03:46 PM

On a more serious note, being an athiest who happens to have bouts of severe chemical depression can be a real pain in the neck. Almost everyone's first reaction is "...if only he would accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour...". You get real tired of hearing it after a while.

Chanileslie

20th January 2004, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Suezoled
Girl Scouts had that too. Believe in god. or something stupid.

I believe the Girl Scouts have moved away from the whole god issue. I was concerned about that when my girls were in Girl Scouts.

The Girl Scout Promise

On my honor, I will try:
To serve God and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.

The word "God" can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one's spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word "God" with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate.

The Girl Scout Law

I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.

This is from here:
Girl Scouts (http://www.girlscouts.org/program/promiselaw.html)

So it looks like you can even leave out the whole god thing. I don't even recall one time during my stint in the Girl Scouts or my daughter's time when the Girl Scout Promise was even recited.