Would you play extra for premium seating at TAM?

[Dicon]

DISCLAIMER > This is just a hypothetical idea my wife and I were recently discussing. As far as I know, this is NOT something that is even being considered, so please don't contact JREF to buy it (if you love the idea) or complain about it (if you hate the idea).

What if JREF offered premium seating at TAM? For an extra $XX, you got a reserved seat in the first couple rows of the hall. No need to get there early to toss down your folder and claim your territory; no risk of being stuck so far in the back that you can't tell your Plait from your Wiseman. You get a bit of extra convenience, and the JREF gets a few extra dollars.

Would you buy such an add-on, and if so, how much would it be worth to you?

Do you think this would create a division between the big spenders and everyone else? Would you mercilessly mock anyone who was on the side you were not on?

=======

We started talking about this after hearing mention of some concert that was selling extra-expensive Golden Circle seating, and we wondered how the same thing would work at TAM. Personally, I think enough people would buy it to make it a viable thing for JREF to offer. At the same time, I think there would be so much complaining about it that JREF would regret ever doing it.

[Chris H]

If I'm paying extra, I wanna be able to sit on Ariane Sherine's lap. Now THAT would be premium seating. ;-)

Yeah, I'd consider it, maybe for an extra $30 - $50.

[Cleon]

My "premium" seat is one near my friends. I don't need to be able to count Shermer's nosehairs.

[ricklesgibson]

Premium fees would be an awful idea. It'd just leave a bad taste in my mouth, like Ticketmaster does.

Besides, in July, I sat right up front for the whole conference and there was plenty of open seating around, most of the time. If we got into the segregation of sections, we'd have to have enforcement likely, which is no fun. And with the monitors and the crack staff manning the cameras & boards, everyone should have been able to see & hear just fine.

[Sc00ter]

I pretty much agree with Rick. The problem is that the non-reserved close seats don't have tables and having tables is nice. I loved that. First day of TAM7 I sat up front in the non-table seats and it was uncomfortable.

I'd go up there for a couple talks I'd be interested in, but with the screens it's not something I would pay extra for.

[arthwollipot]

Nope. I got front-row seats to the Connie Sonne test for no extra cost.

[Chris H]

I still get to sit with Ariane, right?

[stup_id]

Which play are we talking about? ... is there BSMD involved?

hahah :D

[KingMerv00]

No thank you. Every TAM I've been to had big screens haning from the ceiling so seeing the speaker up close was not an issue.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

This is an idea I've had for years. Great minds think alike.

I think it's a good idea. I'd maybe pay the extra, depending on how expensive it is.

And yes, I'd look down my nose at those unwashed masses who couldn't afford to sit up front.

[Cleon]

And yes, I'd look down my nose at those unwashed masses who couldn't afford to sit up front.

You realize that all those hundreds of people will be sitting in back of you, yes? And that spitballs are very, very easy to make?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

You realize that all those hundreds of people will be sitting in back of you, yes? And that spitballs are very, very easy to make?

The premium seats would come with armed guards who would watch everyone behind you.

[Sc00ter]

This is an idea I've had for years. Great minds think alike.

I think it's a good idea. I'd maybe pay the extra, depending on how expensive it is.

And yes, I'd look down my nose at those unwashed masses who couldn't afford to sit up front.

Wouldn't sitting so close violate most of the restraining orders various speakers have against you?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Wouldn't sitting so close violate most of the restraining orders various speakers have against you?

Rebecca wants me to sit close to her. I am repulsed by the idea.

[Doubt]

This is an idea I've had for years. Great minds think alike.

I think it's a good idea. I'd maybe pay the extra, depending on how expensive it is.

And yes, I'd look down my nose at those unwashed masses who couldn't afford to sit up front.

I would be back with the unwashed masses laughing at the people who paid extra so they could count Shermer's nose hairs.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I would be back with the unwashed masses laughing at the people who paid extra so they could count Shermer's nose hairs.

Shermer would be counting mine.

[Horatius]

Shermer would be counting mine.



And that's supposed to be a plus?

[Patricio Elicer]

I have no problems with that. I have a good friend who, no matter how much beer he's drunk the previous night, jumps out of bed very early and reserves a good seat for me :).

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I have no problems with that. I have a good friend who, no matter how much beer he's drunk the previous night, jumps out of bed very early and reserves a good seat for me :).

He sounds like a great guy!

[sinclairmcevoy]

I would definitely play an extra for premium seating.

[Wowbagger]

In general, I am not too fond of the idea of premium seating. It would be more humane, I think, to have all the attendees seen and treated as equals. (I suppose the presenters would be treated a little better, but that is different.)

However, having said that: I wouldn't mind paying a little extra to guarantee sitting in a row with a table, if I had to. I think it was TAM6, at the Flamingo, where not all the rows had tables across them. If you got stuck in the back, you had no surface for writing, computer fiddling, or food consumption.

Though, I don't think that was an issue at TAM7, at South Point.

I don't mind sitting towards the back, actually. But, I do like having a table of some sort in front of me.

[thatguywhojuggles]

I've never been able to afford TAM as it is... so the idea of paying for premium seating suggests that someone out there has too much money...

:rolleyes:

[KingMerv00]

Rebecca wants me to sit close to her. I am repulsed by the idea.

"close to" = "within pepper spray distance"

It is less creepy to have you close and blind than to have you 100 feet away in the bushes with a telescope.

[Sc00ter]

In general, I am not too fond of the idea of premium seating. It would be more humane, I think, to have all the attendees seen and treated as equals. (I suppose the presenters would be treated a little better, but that is different.)

However, having said that: I wouldn't mind paying a little extra to guarantee sitting in a row with a table, if I had to. I think it was TAM6, at the Flamingo, where not all the rows had tables across them. If you got stuck in the back, you had no surface for writing, computer fiddling, or food consumption.

Though, I don't think that was an issue at TAM7, at South Point.

I don't mind sitting towards the back, actually. But, I do like having a table of some sort in front of me.

I agree 100%, especially with the attendees being treated as equals. People that pay for better seats are going to start expecting better treatment all around, better access to speakers in between talks for example. It will just cause resentment.

[skip]

I've never been able to afford TAM as it is... so the idea of paying for premium seating suggests that someone out there has too much money...

:rolleyes:


I'm with you.... I've never been to afford it myself... Maybe they should lower a price and let us poor folk stand in the back.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

People that pay for better seats are going to start expecting better treatment all around, better access to speakers in between talks for example.

Say what? Where do you get that from?

People who pay for the Speaker's Dinner get better access to the speakers now. Should we cancel that?

[Sc00ter]

Say what? Where do you get that from?

People who pay for the Speaker's Dinner get better access to the speakers now. Should we cancel that?

I've seen it happen before at non-skeptical events. If you split up the general conference/event into tiered groups then the people in the better tiers tend to want special treatment in other ways.

Having another event is different because you don't have the other people around. It's having the dynamic of the two different groups in the same venue at the same time that causes the disparity.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I've seen it happen before at non-skeptical events. If you split up the general conference/event into tiered groups then the people in the better tiers tend to want special treatment in other ways.

You tell them they don't get the extra special treatment they're asking for. Problem solved.

[Sc00ter]

You tell them they don't get the extra special treatment they're asking for. Problem solved.

Yah, because that always works...

But I agree with Wowbagger, I would pay extra for a table seat, since that makes more sense since you're taking up more space than I would for placement. But I think the whole idea, logistically, for seat reservation for a larger group of people (rather than just speakers for example) makes it harder to do, since you'll need people around to deal with enforcement.

And like Rick said, and I noticed this as well, there were plenty of empty seats up front, especially after the first day.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Yah, because that always works...

It's worked quite well in my experience.

[Dicon]

OK, how about if the surcharge also include extra comfy seats in those first couple rows, a special express line at the buffet (with a higher caliber of food), and Rebecca brought you your favorite beverages during the lectures?

And... you were the only people in the entire hall allowed to play with laser pointers during the conference.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

OK, how about if the surcharge also include extra comfy seats in those first couple rows, a special express line at the buffet (with a higher caliber of food), and Rebecca brought you your favorite beverages during the lectures?

And... you were the only people in the entire hall allowed to play with laser pointers during the conference.

Where do I sign up?

[LadyMitris]

I always end up sitting way in the back because I'm too lazy to get up that early. If I could compensate for my laziness with cash, I would indeed pay.

A comfy seat would be nice, but express line in the buffet...meh and I don't need Rebecca bringing food to me. I'm lazy, but not too lazy to get my own meals.

[Dicon]

... and, you got your own microphone so you could interject insightful comments and witty jabs into the lectures? How much extra would you pay to ensure that everyone knew you were the smartest and funniest person in the room?

[saganite]

I admit I'd also be willing to pay, assuming I had any money at all left over after buying the actual ticket. I'm far too lazy to get to conferences early enough to nab a good seat, and inevitably wind up in the back.

[Wowbagger]

To help reiterate my point:

Back in April 2007, Harvard University held a "New Humanism" conference. There was some ugliness when the student-discount attendees were treated like second-class citizens, especially at the gala dinner.

I think it would be wise to avoid stuff like that, as much as possible.

We can still have a separate Guest of Honor meal, of course, but that is considered a separate event. I would be opposed to caste systems within the same event; making a few reasonable exceptions for the actual presenters.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

To help reiterate my point:

Back in April 2007, Harvard University held a "New Humanism" conference. There was some ugliness when the student-discount attendees were treated like second-class citizens, especially at the gala dinner.


Sounds like a communications issue. The students thought they were entitled to something that they weren't.

[Sc00ter]

To help reiterate my point:

Back in April 2007, Harvard University held a "New Humanism" conference. There was some ugliness when the student-discount attendees were treated like second-class citizens, especially at the gala dinner.

I think it would be wise to avoid stuff like that, as much as possible.

We can still have a separate Guest of Honor meal, of course, but that is considered a separate event. I would be opposed to caste systems within the same event; making a few reasonable exceptions for the actual presenters.

Again, I agree fully with Wowbagger

[Wowbagger]

Sounds like a communications issue. The students thought they were entitled to something that they weren't. Actually, it was a bit more complicated than that.

There was no intention of a caste system, in this case. It was only an accident from hectic planning procedures.

The short version of the story: The attendence demands were outpacing the planners' ability to find venues that could fit them all. In the end, some compromises had to be made, to stay in budget, and the lower-paying students got the raw end of it. The details are more interesting, but I don't know where you could find them, at the moment.

This accident sheds light on why caste systems are bad things to have.

If there was no accident, but an intentionally-prepared caste system, the apparent ugliness would be even worse!

(And I say this as someone who could probably afford the premium seats, if they were offered.)

Again, I agree fully with Wowbagger
And, I fully agree with Sc00ter on this point.

[LadyMitris]

... and, you got your own microphone so you could interject insightful comments and witty jabs into the lectures? How much extra would you pay to ensure that everyone knew you were the smartest and funniest person in the room?

Now this is getting ridiculous. If I'm entertaining the crowd I'm working and while I may be willing to work for free, I'm not going to pay to work.

If I got to sit up front, in a comfy seat with an attractive male massaging my shoulders...then we could talk.

[LadyMitris]

BTW, a caste system already exists at TAM. The speakers are at the top.

[Sc00ter]

BTW, a caste system already exists at TAM. The speakers are at the top.

Eh, I think this is a bit different only because they have to be at specific places at specific times. I will also say that most of the speakers do not act this way when they are not speaking. I saw them sitting all over and mingle with the crowed as much as anybody else.

[Wowbagger]

BTW, a caste system already exists at TAM. The speakers are at the top.Yeah, that much is obvious. It is reasonable to offer small, reasonable benefits to presenters, such as close-up seats, and such. (Not to mention the invisible stuff: paid expenses, travel accommodations, greenroom noshing, etc.)

But, there is no reason to systematically divide up the regular, non-presenting attendees. And, lots of good, fun, dignified reasons to treat everyone on the same level.

(It is also reasonable to offer appropriate accommodations for the disabled. But, that hardly counts as developing a "caste".)

[El_Spectre]

Yes. I'd like a special ejector seat that launches me out of the room when certain speakers read from books/wordy slides ad infinitum instead of giving a presentation, or use a presentation purely as a book sales pitch.

How much would that cost?

I'll double it if I get to work the speaker's ejector seat.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I've always woken up more than early enough to claim a seat up front, but I'd rather sit in back with the not cool kids as I've done since TAM 1. This works especially well for me as, if I find one of the speakers boring or uninteresting and there's no scheduled break, I can get up and go for a smoke without having to do the walk of shame.

[Doubt]

Yes. I'd like a special ejector seat that launches me out of the room when certain speakers read from books/wordy slides ad infinitum instead of giving a presentation, or use a presentation purely as a book sales pitch.

How much would that cost?

I'll double it if I get to work the speaker's ejector seat.

That is why speakers were not allow to just pitch their latest book at TAM 7. Although that led to some guy whose name rhymes with Hermer trying to sell us on his political world view instead of his latest book.

[KingMerv00]

I admit I'd also be willing to pay, assuming I had any money at all left over after buying the actual ticket. I'm far too lazy to get to conferences early enough to nab a good seat, and inevitably wind up in the back.

TAM is like a school bus. All the cool people sit in the back...or at the bar.

[rustypouch]

TAM is like a school bus. All the cool people sit in the back...or at the bar.

Or they just bring a flask.

[Miss_Kitt]

Why not instead charge extra for the seats around Paperskater? I'm pretty sure that would raise quite a bit ;)

[SkepticScott]

You mean charge based on proximity to skepchicks? That's disturbingly brilliant. :crowded:

[fuelair]

DISCLAIMER > This is just a hypothetical idea my wife and I were recently discussing. As far as I know, this is NOT something that is even being considered, so please don't contact JREF to buy it (if you love the idea) or complain about it (if you hate the idea).

What if JREF offered premium seating at TAM? For an extra $XX, you got a reserved seat in the first couple rows of the hall. No need to get there early to toss down your folder and claim your territory; no risk of being stuck so far in the back that you can't tell your Plait from your Wiseman. You get a bit of extra convenience, and the JREF gets a few extra dollars.

Would you buy such an add-on, and if so, how much would it be worth to you?

Do you think this would create a division between the big spenders and everyone else? Would you mercilessly mock anyone who was on the side you were not on?

=======

We started talking about this after hearing mention of some concert that was selling extra-expensive Golden Circle seating, and we wondered how the same thing would work at TAM. Personally, I think enough people would buy it to make it a viable thing for JREF to offer. At the same time, I think there would be so much complaining about it that JREF would regret ever doing it.

It also has been used at Trekkie/media cons for seating/autographs, etc.

[xinit]

There's the lunches with Randi and Dawkins etc if someone wants to pay $1000 for that kind of special seating.

[SkepticScott]

There's the lunches with Randi and Dawkins etc if someone wants to pay $1000 for that kind of special seating.I haven't looked, but I'll bet it qualifies as a tax-deductible charitable donation, less the $50, $75 or $100 value (cost) of the meal.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I haven't looked, but I'll bet it qualifies as a tax-deductible charitable donation, less the $50, $75 or $100 value (cost) of the meal.

I bet you're right. :)

[HarryKeogh]

Why would you want to sit up front? Don't the cool kids sit in the back making fun of all the nerds people even nerdier than themselves?

[Geek Goddess]

Shermer would be counting mine.

Yes. I'd like a special ejector seat that launches me out of the room when certain speakers read from books/wordy slides ad infinitum instead of giving a presentation, or use a presentation purely as a book sales pitch.

How much would that cost?

I'll double it if I get to work the speaker's ejector seat.

Shermer cannot possibly be counting your nose hairs when he's reading his slides.

Spec has the right idea, you see

[Akusai]

BTW, a caste system already exists at TAM. The speakers are at the top.
As others have said, I think this is part of the nature of the beast. There's definitely a pseudocaste, though, of unofficial VIPs, i.e. those who got first dibs on seating for Connie Sonne's MDC last year. As far as I know, most of the interested people got a seat, but there were people in the VIP line who weren't actually presenters last year, just basically more famous than the rest of us.

Not terribly distressing, all things considered, but it's there.

[Sc00ter]

As others have said, I think this is part of the nature of the beast. There's definitely a pseudocaste, though, of unofficial VIPs, i.e. those who got first dibs on seating for Connie Sonne's MDC last year. As far as I know, most of the interested people got a seat, but there were people in the VIP line who weren't actually presenters last year, just basically more famous than the rest of us.

Not terribly distressing, all things considered, but it's there.

There was a workshop on the MDC on Thursday. People that went to that got some kind of badge that got them better seating. There were some "more famous" people that were in that workshop.

Also, some people got shuffled around. My wife and I were split up and she ended up in the VIP section.

[Geek Goddess]

As others have said, I think this is part of the nature of the beast. There's definitely a pseudocaste, though, of unofficial VIPs, i.e. those who got first dibs on seating for Connie Sonne's MDC last year. As far as I know, most of the interested people got a seat, but there were people in the VIP line who weren't actually presenters last year, just basically more famous than the rest of us.

Not terribly distressing, all things considered, but it's there.

There were also some people who weren't famous or recognizable, but that were representing regional skeptics groups, newsletters, etc.

[hcmom]

Do I have to play an extra sport, or musical instrument, or what?

[Dicon]

As others have said, I think this is part of the nature of the beast. There's definitely a pseudocaste, though, of unofficial VIPs, i.e. those who got first dibs on seating for Connie Sonne's MDC last year. As far as I know, most of the interested people got a seat, but there were people in the VIP line who weren't actually presenters last year, just basically more famous than the rest of us.

Not terribly distressing, all things considered, but it's there.


And some of us who are nobody's got plunked in the VIP area, only because we once had a camera in the right place at the right time.

[dropzone]

I've said it before: I wouldn't pay to see the Second Coming of Christ. It's important? I'll watch it on TV. It isn't? That's a job for YouTube.

[Dicon]

Well, apparently someone thought this was a good idea. I see there's a TAM9 option for "The TAM Experience (All inclusive conference package with VIP seating)". $1000.

[AdMan]

Well, apparently someone thought this was a good idea. I see there's a TAM9 option for "The TAM Experience (All inclusive conference package with VIP seating)". $1000.


If my math is correct, with the early-bird and JREF member discounts, the $1000 is $350 more than purchasing everything separately (including the all-workshop pass).

I think I'll pass.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Well, apparently someone thought this was a good idea. I see there's a TAM9 option for "The TAM Experience (All inclusive conference package with VIP seating)". $1000.

I'm considering it. :)

Especially if it means I don't have to get up after 3 hours of sleep to get a good seat. I can waltz right in 5 minutes before the first speaker.

[Wowbagger]

So, what's next? Is TAM Ten going to have special VIP access to the catered foods, while the non-VIPs get meager buffet coupons?! Perhaps TAM Eleven will even have special VIP access to the actual conference rooms, while the non-VIPs are forced to watch the proceeds on their hotel television sets?!

How many TAMs will it be before the non-VIPs are forced to wear chains, and be subjected to slave labor, while their VIP masters drink champagne (or sparkling apple juice) toasts over their tortured bodies?! Huh?!!!!!

Be forewarned! This trend doth not bode well.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

So, what's next? Is TAM Ten going to have special VIP access to the catered foods, while the non-VIPs get meager buffet coupons?! Perhaps TAM Eleven will even have special VIP access to the actual conference rooms, while the non-VIPs are forced to watch the proceeds on their hotel television sets?

I hope so.

[Wowbagger]

Of course, I may change my mind about this, if the VIP seat is behind a table, and all the non-VIP ones are not.

I like tables.

[AdMan]

Of course, I may change my mind about this, if the VIP seat is behind a table, and all the non-VIP ones are not.

I like tables.


Yes--I'd like to get more details on what "VIP seating" means.

Perhaps it's raised seating up front so that VIPs are (nearly) at stage level and can look down on the lowly commoners at the back who are forced to view the speakers on the screens.

If so, I'll consider it too. :D

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Yes--I'd like to get more details on what "VIP seating" means.

Perhaps it's raised seating up front so that VIPs are (nearly) at stage level and can look down on the lowly commoners at the back who are forced to view the speakers on the screens.

If so, I'll consider it too. :D

I'm only buying a VIP seat if it is guaranteed that I will block someones view.

[TsarBomba]

How many TAMs will it be before the non-VIPs are forced to wear chains, and be subjected to slave labor, while their VIP masters drink champagne (or sparkling apple juice) toasts over their tortured bodies?! Huh?!!!!!

Be forewarned! This trend doth not bode well.

I, for one, will happily sit with my revolutionary proletariat brothers and sisters. Long live the revolutionary vanguard! Down with the capitalist running dogs.

[Dicon]

Since this is Vegas, I'd like to think that the VIP areas are cabanas with comfy lounge chairs, misting systems, fully stocked mini bars and scantily clad waitresses.

[Wowbagger]

Of course, we could be entirely wrong about this. Maybe "VIP" stands for "Very Ignorant Person". And, those special seats include mandatory dunce caps they must wear at all times.




In which case, Scrut would fit right in! :p

[xinit]

I'm considering it. :)

Especially if it means I don't have to get up after 3 hours of sleep to get a good seat. I can waltz right in 5 minutes before the first speaker.

I believe that it's required that you actually waltz in, wearing black tie and tails or a nice gown and diamonds. Your call.

[xinit]

So, what's next? Is TAM Ten going to have special VIP access to the catered foods, while the non-VIPs get meager buffet coupons?!

Mitch Meets The Slippery Slope...

[TurboFool]

Best part of TAM is the approachability and even level of nearly everyone there. I like to know that if I'm dedicated enough to grab a seat early, I could end up sitting behind Dawkins like last year, or anyone else. I don't want a class war at TAM.

[Calculon]

I am opposed to a tiered TAM and Michael Shermer's nose hairs.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I see that tickets for the London 2012 Olympics went on sale. It looks like if you pay more, you get a better ticket. That hardly seems fair. They're creating a caste system. I wonder if we'll have a class war?

[Kil]

Meh... There were rows of chairs in the front middle and then tables behind. I don't care where I sit as long as there is a place for my coffee and possibly my computer. A table. Other than that, I'm easy.

Oh, and it's kinda nice to have the table to bang your head on. There were a few times at every TAM I have attended that I felt the urge to do that. I (mostly) resisted, but it was nice to know I could do it if I wanted to. (Shermer at TAM5 comes to mind...)

[Wowbagger]

Mitch Meets The Slippery Slope...
*Wheeeeeeee!!!!*

[LilaMae]

Why pay $1000 for choice seating when these cost only $9.99?



http://www.trepaning.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/seat-savers-02.jpg

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Is that Modern Art?

[hcmom]

Is that Modern Art?

No, they're seat-holders.

[TurboFool]

I see that tickets for the London 2012 Olympics went on sale. It looks like if you pay more, you get a better ticket. That hardly seems fair. They're creating a caste system. I wonder if we'll have a class war?

Yes, because the Olympics and TAM are exactly the same.

[phyz]

Yes, because the Olympics and TAM are exactly the same.

Turns out there are a lot of things in life where paying more can get you a better situation. If TAM became one of them, most of the sky is likely to remain aloft.

TAM *is* a high-demand special event, with celebrated presenters performing in a space whose geometry dictates that some spectators will be nearer and some will be farther. Not so unlike a sporting event or concert. Those events have price tiers separating more-desirable from less-desirable seats.

Seems like well-traveled ground.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Yes, because the Olympics and TAM are exactly the same.

You are incorrect.

[TurboFool]

Turns out there are a lot of things in life where paying more can get you a better situation. If TAM became one of them, most of the sky is likely to remain aloft.

TAM *is* a high-demand special event, with celebrated presenters performing in a space whose geometry dictates that some spectators will be nearer and some will be farther. Not so unlike a sporting event or concert. Those events have price tiers separating more-desirable from less-desirable seats.

Seems like well-traveled ground.

And my point is that TAM has, historically, been different from this. While I can assume that it's possible the Olympics once had one-size-fits-all pricing for tickets and unassigned seats, it and other sporting events haven't for many decades. TAM always has. Changing this would change the mood of the event considerably and, in the opinion of some such as myself, for the worse.

[Calculon]

And my point is that TAM has, historically, been different from this. While I can assume that it's possible the Olympics once had one-size-fits-all pricing for tickets and unassigned seats, it and other sporting events haven't for many decades. TAM always has. Changing this would change the mood of the event considerably and, in the opinion of some such as myself, for the worse.

I agree.

As far as the Olympic/sporting event comparison...the attendees are there to view an event, not to participate or make lasting relationships.
Having tiers at TAM would reduce the community aspect that isn't even expected at the Olympics for the ticket buyers.
TAM attendees are more analogous to the Olympic athlete participants in the Olympic Village.

[SkepticScott]

TAM attendees are more analogous to the Olympic athlete participants in the Olympic Village.That's probably the first, and only, time that anything I do is compared to Olympic athletes. :cool:

[Calculon]

That's probably the first, and only, time that anything I do is compared to Olympic athletes. :cool:

I realized the humor as I typed it...but y'all know what I mean.

[TsarBomba]

Perhaps the JREF should reach an agreement with the South Point that all non-premium ticket holders have to give up their seats at the Del Mar upon request by the glitterati who pay for the privilege of premium seating during the day. It would only be fair. Even better would be a special roped off section at the Del Mar where the wealthy super premium patrons can sneer at the unwashed proletariat who can not afford the super-premium seats.

[SkepticScott]

LOL, TsarBomba! If that were the case, we'd have 1400 premium ticket holders.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I agree.

As far as the Olympic/sporting event comparison...the attendees are there to view an event, not to participate or make lasting relationships.
Having tiers at TAM would reduce the community aspect that isn't even expected at the Olympics for the ticket buyers.
TAM attendees are more analogous to the Olympic athlete participants in the Olympic Village.

How would it reduce the community aspect? No matter where you sit, you can really only talk to the 4-5 people around you anyhow.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Perhaps the JREF should reach an agreement with the South Point that all non-premium ticket holders have to give up their seats at the Del Mar upon request by the glitterati who pay for the privilege of premium seating during the day. It would only be fair. Even better would be a special roped off section at the Del Mar where the wealthy super premium patrons can sneer at the unwashed proletariat who can not afford the super-premium seats.

Absolutely!

Even better, those who don't drink shouldn't even be allowed in the Del Mar. They take up valuable space.

[AdMan]

How would it reduce the community aspect?


By creating a class structure, where the elites look down on the have-nots as they sip champagne poured to them by Randi himself in their roped-off VIP area, and the proletariat grumble and plot how someday they will overthrow the privileged class and take over TAM for themselves.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Come to think of it, shouldn't those who can't afford the premium seats be forced to deliver beer and lunch to those who can?

[bumlet5]

Come to think of it, shouldn't those who can't afford the premium seats be forced to deliver beer and lunch to those who can?

It should be the other way around. They get the better seats, but have to serve the lower class.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

It should be the other way around. They get the better seats, but have to serve the lower class.

Since when does royalty service the wretched refuse of society?

[bumlet5]

Since when does royalty service the wretched refuse of society?

Alms for the poor?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Alms for the poor?

I would toss them some bones or watermelon rinds.

[FledgelingSkeptic]

I'll sit in back with the tables. It's SO much easier to take notes back there.

The idea does bother me though. There are people who scrimp and save just to be at TAM. They ought to have the same chance as anyone else to sit up front and count Shermer's nose hairs.

[Tamazon]

I'll sit in back with the tables. It's SO much easier to take notes back there.

The idea does bother me though. There are people who scrimp and save just to be at TAM. They ought to have the same chance as anyone else to sit up front and count Shermer's nose hairs.

Agreed. The extra $350.00 paid for special seating can be donated to the scholarship fund and pay for nearly an entire registration for someone who can't otherwise afford to go at all.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Agreed. The extra $350.00 paid for special seating can be donated to the scholarship fund and pay for nearly an entire registration for someone who can't otherwise afford to go at all.

What if it's someone I don't like?

[SkepticScott]

What if it's someone I don't like?If Paul does his job right, you'll never know.

[bumlet5]

I'm going to be really upset if they put the tables up front this time for the "privileged few".

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I'm going to be really upset if they put the tables up front this time for the "privileged few".

How is this any different than Randi having lunch with the "privileged few"? I think everyone should get the chance to have lunch with Randi. It's not fair.

[Dicon]

The more I think about this, the more I think it's not worth thinking about.

At $1000 a pop, I sincerely doubt they're even going to fill up the first row, so the best you can do will still be the second or third row. Is this really such a bad thing if it means quite a bit of extra money went to the JREF?

And no, this is not creating some slippery slope caste system. The Skepchick party invitation list has been charged with fulfilling that role.

[bumlet5]

How is this any different than Randi having lunch with the "privileged few"? I think everyone should get the chance to have lunch with Randi. It's not fair.

I don't have a problem with that. It's one meal, not the entire convention. If the few people who can afford to pay to have meals with Randi have ALL meals with him, I would have a problem with that.

Paying for premium seating for the whole time at TAM is inevitably going to cause a rift between the people who can pay the extra money and those who can't. We are having this conversation, so it already has. If you get to the hall before me and get seated closer, fair enough, but to have the option of giving them more money for them to save you a seat for the whole thing is against the boasted "equality" of TAM.

My point was that if they top that off by only having tables at the VIP section, the rift will be even greater than it already is. TAM hasn't even started, and we already have classes forming.

[AdMan]

At $1000 a pop, I sincerely doubt they're even going to fill up the first row, so the best you can do will still be the second or third row. Is this really such a bad thing if it means quite a bit of extra money went to the JREF?




I like the suggestion of using the extra money, or at least a big part of it, to specifically sponsor the TAM scholarship fund.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The more I think about this, the more I think it's not worth thinking about.

At $1000 a pop, I sincerely doubt they're even going to fill up the first row, so the best you can do will still be the second or third row. Is this really such a bad thing if it means quite a bit of extra money went to the JREF?

This.

It's a fundraiser. Like you, I will be quite surprised if they sell more than 20 of these.

And no, this is not creating some slippery slope caste system. The Skepchick party invitation list has been charged with fulfilling that role.

LOL! Although, to be fair, you really had to try hard not to be invited last year. There were only a handful of names on the black list.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I don't have a problem with that. It's one meal, not the entire convention. If the few people who can afford to pay to have meals with Randi have ALL meals with him, I would have a problem with that.

Paying for premium seating for the whole time at TAM is inevitably going to cause a rift between the people who can pay the extra money and those who can't. We are having this conversation, so it already has. If you get to the hall before me and get seated closer, fair enough, but to have the option of giving them more money for them to save you a seat for the whole thing is against the boasted "equality" of TAM.

My point was that if they top that off by only having tables at the VIP section, the rift will be even greater than it already is. TAM hasn't even started, and we already have classes forming.

The "classes" are all in your head. As of now, I'm not paying the VIP rate. And I likely won't. But I will have no animostity toward those who do. Why should I? The only "rifts" are the ones we create.

[Dicon]

LOL! Although, to be fair, you really had to try hard not to be invited last year. There were only a handful of names on the black list.


But that was last year. I understand the people who haven't received the secret email about this year's party don't even know it's happening.

[Phlebas]

And no, this is not creating some slippery slope caste system. The Skepchick party invitation list has been charged with fulfilling that role.

Yeah, shame on those bitches for failing to supply a venue with an unlimited capacity for a $5 cover party.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

But that was last year. I understand the people who haven't received the secret email about this year's party don't even know it's happening.

What secr....oh yes, yes...I agree. Losers.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Yeah, shame on those bitches for failing to supply a venue with an unlimited capacity for a $5 cover party.

I hate them all! :mad:

[Cethis]

More people might get the TAM Experience because it also includes the workshops, and all the evening shows. They're not paying just to get good seats.

Since I don't want to see all the shows, and the front row isn't a big deal, I'm not going to pay extra. But I'm sure the JREF will find other ways to entice more money from me. :)

[AdMan]

More people might get the TAM Experience because it also includes the workshops, and all the evening shows. They're not paying just to get good seats.



All they're apparently offering extra to those paying for the "TAM Experience" are the good seats. Even if you buy the all-workshop pass and get tickets to all the shows, you're still spending $350 less than getting the VIP pass. Is that additional cost acceptable for somewhat better seating at all the events? Maybe to some people.

[phyz]

But that was last year. I understand the people who haven't received the secret email about this year's party don't even know it's happening.

I resemble that remark!

[Phlebas]

But that was last year. I understand the people who haven't received the secret email about this year's party don't even know it's happening.

Is this a problem? Anyone who throws an invitation-only party is participating in class warfare? You do know that the Skepchick party isn't funded from TAM fees, right?

I'm having a party at my house tomorrow night. Now I feel bad for not simply copying the phone book into the Evite page :(

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Is this a problem? Anyone who throws an invitation-only party is participating in class warfare? You do know that the Skepchick party isn't funded from TAM fees, right?

I'm having a party at my house tomorrow night. Now I feel bad for not simply copying the phone book into the Evite page :(

I'm pretty sure he's joking. :)

[Wowbagger]

You guys are turning into sick, elitist bastards!!

[Phlebas]

I'm pretty sure he's joking. :)

Heh :)

Sorry - I was rerunning a lot of arguments I had last year with the "Come Show That Women Are All Whores" Party :)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Heh :)

Sorry - I was rerunning a lot of arguments I had last year with the "Come Show That Women Are All Whores" Party :)

LOL! I figured you were having a flashback.

I was disappointed to find out last year that the women at the party weren't all whores. :(

[Geek Goddess]

The JREF is a non-for-profit organization, and they need to raise money. Having some close-up seats that sell for more is a way to do that. The people in the front don't get to see anything that they ones in the back can't see (except maybe Shermer's nose hairs).

The Skepchick party is a private party who has the right to invite whoever they choose, cover fee or not. They can't invite 1100 people. If someone wanted to have a really big party, that everyone could come to, they could graciously rent the ballroom at the South Point, pay for the waiters and bartendersthrough the hotel, buy all the liquor through the hotel, pay for food and service and charge about $40-50 to cover the costs. In additional to having everyone buy their drinks one at a time.

I speak from experience of assisting in a party once year year at a convention I attend, which charges about $40-60 per person, and that's WITH a couple dozen corporate sponsors contributing $350 each. The hotels will not let you have BYOB parties. I'm sure NO ONE would complain about $40 for a party, right?

Or maybe some of you could make large donations to cover these costs, to the Skepchicks or to someone on the forum to run it?

[Dicon]

Heh :)

Sorry - I was rerunning a lot of arguments I had last year with the "Come Show That Women Are All Whores" Party :)


I'm trying to figure out if admitting that I was just being sarcastic would have any relevance when posted on April 1. It's like playing with a Mobius strip while walking on an MC Escher staircase.

[SkepticScott]

It's like playing with a Mobius strip while walking on an MC Escher staircase.Ow! Ow! Ow! You just sprained my brain!