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Abdul Alhazred
2nd March 2010, 02:20 AM
Baby survives parents' global warming suicide pact (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/7344329/Baby-survives-parents-global-warming-suicide-pact.html)
Telegraph (UK)

Francisco Lotero, 56, and Miriam Coletti, 23, shot their daughter and her toddler brother before killing themselves.

Their son Francisco, two, died instantly after being hit in the back.

However, their unnamed daughter cheated death after the bullet from her father's handgun missed her vital organs.

Police were alerted by worried neighbours who discovered the massacre three days after the shooting and the girl was taken to hospital.

The youngster is recovering in hospital in the town of Goya in the northern Argentine province of Corrientes, where doctors say she is out of danger.

Her parents said they feared the effects of global warming in a suicide note discovered by police.



The logic is inescapable given the premises.

Luckily most people aren't so consistent.

Redtail
2nd March 2010, 02:23 AM
... She survived three days with a bullet in her? Damn.

Rasmus
2nd March 2010, 02:33 AM
I don't get it!

Why commit suicide over something that might happen some time in the future, no matter how likely it is?

Could they not have waited until *whatever*?

The papers this morning reported that a judge who had killed himself was worried about losing his job. So, um, ... I doubt that his being dead made that a whole lot better; and he might not have lost the job alltogether. And if he had lost it, he could have still killed himself, right?

Same here. So maybe global warming is a big, massive threat. Maybe life will not be worth living down the road 5 or 10 years from now. Maybe just one year, even. But it's stil la whole year, right? They could have at least sold the house, blown their life savings or something.

Cavemonster
2nd March 2010, 02:38 AM
Just speculating here, but possibly the stress of expecting horrible things to happen makes the remaining time as unbearable as the projected cataclysm.

After all, the waiting is the hardest part. For some people.

Hallo Alfie
2nd March 2010, 02:45 AM
removed, on reflection I have been too 'knee jerk' with this comment

Apologies to all.

Rolfe
2nd March 2010, 02:52 AM
I don't get it!

Why commit suicide over something that might happen some time in the future, no matter how likely it is?

Could they not have waited until *whatever*?

The papers this morning reported that a judge who had killed himself was worried about losing his job. So, um, ... I doubt that his being dead made that a whole lot better; and he might not have lost the job alltogether. And if he had lost it, he could have still killed himself, right?

Same here. So maybe global warming is a big, massive threat. Maybe life will not be worth living down the road 5 or 10 years from now. Maybe just one year, even. But it's stil la whole year, right? They could have at least sold the house, blown their life savings or something.


I totally agree. Life at the moment is far from unbearable. Of course, if you're expecting to live out your natural, you buckle down and work, and you husband your savings, because you want a reasonably comfortable retirement. But if you fully intend to top yourself because you believe the world as you know it isn't going to last that long, why not have a good time right now?

The opposite view is shown by the advocates of assisted suicide, because they don't want to be forced to kill themselves earlier than they really have to, because they can't risk waiting until their illness is so advanced they'd need help.

There's something very very strange going on psychologically here, and I wonder what it is? Maybe the stated reasons weren't the whole story?

Rolfe.

Megalodon
2nd March 2010, 02:58 AM
Or, depressed people will find things to be depressed about, to justify how bad they are feeling...

Redtail
2nd March 2010, 02:58 AM
The alarmists must be very happy.

Of course. That's why they are all using this to make internet points while ignoring the actual science that supports... Oh wait...

Megalodon
2nd March 2010, 03:00 AM
Alfie keeps scraping the bottom of the barrel, I see...

Rasmus
2nd March 2010, 03:04 AM
I totally agree. Life at the moment is far from unbearable. Of course, if you're expecting to live out your natural, you buckle down and work, and you husband your savings, because you want a reasonably comfortable retirement. But if you fully intend to top yourself because you believe the world as you know it isn't going to last that long, why not have a good time right now?

Indeed. But then, none of the rapture folks are selling their houses, either, are they?

The opposite view is shown by the advocates of assisted suicide, because they don't want to be forced to kill themselves earlier than they really have to, because they can't risk waiting until their illness is so advanced they'd need help.

That, and the fact that you never know what type of accident you might have tomorrow.

There's something very very strange going on psychologically here, and I wonder what it is? Maybe the stated reasons weren't the whole story?

Rolfe.

Megalodon might have a point - I don't know much about depressions or how they manifest in different people. Still, no matter how bad I think the future may be, it's still not the present. If they had been depressed and thought that things already were bad, then I could kidna see the point.

Hallo Alfie
2nd March 2010, 03:19 AM
Of course. That's why they are all using this to make internet points while ignoring the actual science that supports... Oh wait...

Alfie keeps scraping the bottom of the barrel, I see...

Well what would you call this, Collateral damage?

Assuming the report is accurate, the alarmists predictions have managed to scare two people into killing themselves and murdering their children.

Do you seriously think that's ok?

Cavemonster
2nd March 2010, 03:25 AM
Well what would you call this, Collateral damage?

Assuming the report is accurate, the alarmists predictions have managed to scare two people into killing themselves and murdering their children.

Do you seriously think that's ok?

The connection is as relevant as Hitler's connection to Darwin.

People misinterpreting science to horrible ends is nothing new and says nothing about the science.

Andrew Wiggin
2nd March 2010, 03:27 AM
Alfie keeps scraping the bottom of the barrel, I see...

At least it's cooler down there at the bottom. Especially if the barrel is filled with something wet. Up here, it looks to be getting a mite warm.

A

Travis
2nd March 2010, 03:28 AM
I suspect that even if they had never heard of global warming they would have found something else to go psycho about. There are always going to be nutty people and some of them will do terrible things. I mean suppose they had said they were worried about geomagnetic reversal instead. Would that change anything?

Hallo Alfie
2nd March 2010, 03:29 AM
Some of you are right.
Sorry to all, I have over reacted on this one and withdraw my previous comments.

Megalodon
2nd March 2010, 03:35 AM
Some of you are right.
Sorry to all, I have over reacted on this one and withdraw my previous comments.

Not that it will matter to you, but this comment made you go way up in my consideration.

You are no longer in my ignore list.

shuize
2nd March 2010, 03:47 AM
Yeah, this comes just after I finished reading a thread on another site about a British woman working in the Middle East who (allegedly) killed herself by drinking cleaning fluid after her boyfriend (allegedly) posted naked pictures of her on the internet.

Perspective, people. Perspective.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/8534899.stm

Redtail
2nd March 2010, 04:09 AM
Deleted due to retraction.

ponderingturtle
2nd March 2010, 04:16 AM
Baby survives parents' global warming suicide pact (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/7344329/Baby-survives-parents-global-warming-suicide-pact.html)
Telegraph (UK)



The logic is inescapable given the premises.

Luckily most people aren't so consistent.

Yep kind of like how Andrea Yates proved that if you believe in an after life and don't kill your kids you are not being logically consistent. I have to wonder why more republicans do not kill their kids, it will save them from possibly turning into corrupt homosexuals right?

Abdul Alhazred
2nd March 2010, 05:55 AM
OK, "global warming" was a pretext not the reason for the crime.

But it's a fashionable reason, no?

Beerina
2nd March 2010, 07:29 AM
Her parents said they feared the effects of global warming in a suicide note discovered by police.

Too bad they believed the hot air and nobody told them the downside is protracted, over centuries, and the upside is more farmland and faster growing plants.

I wonder what in god's name they were afraid of. Death from exaggeration and fear mongering, I guess.

GreyArea
2nd March 2010, 08:44 AM
OK, "global warming" was a pretext not the reason for the crime.

But it's a fashionable reason, no?

Not as fashionable as choosing to live because of scientific discoveries. I mean, with all the planets around other stars that science has been finding these last few decades, who isn't anticipating the discovery of a new planet like Earth?

GreyICE
2nd March 2010, 09:03 AM
OK, "global warming" was a pretext not the reason for the crime.

But it's a fashionable reason, no?

I'm sorry, I missed the part where lots of college students having Einstein posters disproved the theory of relativity.

Can you clarify your inanity?

Abdul Alhazred
2nd March 2010, 09:32 AM
Yep kind of like how Andrea Yates proved that if you believe in an after life and don't kill your kids you are not being logically consistent. I have to wonder why more republicans do not kill their kids, it will save them from possibly turning into corrupt homosexuals right?

Andrea Yates is a perfect example.

ponderingturtle
2nd March 2010, 09:33 AM
Andrea Yates is a perfect example.

And we can generalize from her to Christians just like generalizing from the couple in the OP to people who understand the science about AGW.

Abdul Alhazred
2nd March 2010, 09:34 AM
I'm sorry, I missed the part where lots of college students having Einstein posters disproved the theory of relativity.

Can you clarify your inanity?

Who said anything about it disproving a theory?

Abdul Alhazred
2nd March 2010, 09:35 AM
And we can generalize from her to Christians just like generalizing from the couple in the OP to people who understand the science about AGW.

We can generalize that we do not want to be ruled by them.

Agree?

The Central Scrutinizer
2nd March 2010, 09:37 AM
Francisco Lotero, 56, and Miriam Coletti, 23

Before killing himself, he should have at least told us the secret to shagging a chick half his age.

Damn you Francisco! :mad:

ponderingturtle
2nd March 2010, 09:39 AM
We can generalize that we do not want to be ruled by them.

Agree?

Yes I think we do not want to be ruled by the mentally ill. Do you have some more meaningful statement to make?

Safe-Keeper
2nd March 2010, 09:40 AM
Why commit suicide over something that might happen some time in the future, no matter how likely it is?We're not discussing something that might happen at some time in the future, but something which many, many people are suffering as a result of right now. It's one thing to deny that GW is partly man-made, but this outright denial is almost offensive.

Rolfe
2nd March 2010, 10:03 AM
But it wasn't happening to them, was it? Or did I miss the bit where they lived in the Maldives?

Rolfe.

GreyICE
2nd March 2010, 10:33 AM
Who said anything about it disproving a theory?
As usual, the anti-science buffoons are 'just asking questions' and 'discussing the politics.' Too bad they won't come out and say they're not on the side of the wacky denialists.

Don't necessarily believe in Christ, just think there's legitimate questions about evolution and there might be evidence for an intelligent designer? And cool, lets tell some anecdotes about how Evolution causes racism...

Go back to SC, Abby.

cornsail
2nd March 2010, 02:39 PM
The logic is inescapable given the premises.

Luckily most people aren't so consistent.

Stundie?

I Ratant
2nd March 2010, 02:54 PM
Before killing himself, he should have at least told us the secret to shagging a chick half his age.

Damn you Francisco! :mad:
.
$$$$$$$.
Lots of $$$$.

I Ratant
2nd March 2010, 02:55 PM
But it wasn't happening to them, was it? Or did I miss the bit where they lived in the Maldives?

Rolfe.
.
At sea level, with no hope of getting away.

Moss
2nd March 2010, 03:32 PM
I wonder if their fear of global warming was the only thing mentioned in that note. Makes for a nice headline, but I really wonder if it is the whole story.

Hallo Alfie
2nd March 2010, 03:38 PM
We're not discussing something that might happen at some time in the future, but something which many, many people are suffering as a result of right now. It's one thing to deny that GW is partly man-made, but this outright denial is almost offensive.

A serious question,
Which "so many people are suffering" would that be?

As usual, the anti-science buffoons are 'just asking questions' and 'discussing the politics.' Too bad they won't come out and say they're not on the side of the wacky denialists.



Ahh.... I see Black or white:
It must be all or nothing, if it's not all you are a "whacky denialist".

Sounds kinda anal to me.

Nosi
2nd March 2010, 03:49 PM
At least it's cooler down there at the bottom. Especially if the barrel is filled with something wet. Up here, it looks to be getting a mite warm.

A

...Allright! Who peed!

Then on the other hand, who knows, humans may invent something that may completely upset the barrel, apple cart, and send apples rolling in all directions!

casebro
2nd March 2010, 03:56 PM
I don't get it!

Why commit suicide over something that might happen some time in the future, no matter how likely it is?

Could they not have waited until *whatever*?

The papers this morning reported that a judge who had killed himself was worried about losing his job. So, um, ... I doubt that his being dead made that a whole lot better; and he might not have lost the job alltogether. And if he had lost it, he could have still killed himself, right?

Same here. So maybe global warming is a big, massive threat. Maybe life will not be worth living down the road 5 or 10 years from now. Maybe just one year, even. But it's stil la whole year, right? They could have at least sold the house, blown their life savings or something.

Are you asking "why do crazy people do crazy things?"

Ummm, maybe because they are crazy?

casebro
2nd March 2010, 04:00 PM
This looks like just one of the side effects of GW alarmism.

Sure, exaggerating the problems will get people to act. But act how?

Fat Bottom Gurl
2nd March 2010, 04:55 PM
I wonder if their fear of global warming was the only thing mentioned in that note. Makes for a nice headline, but I really wonder if it is the whole story.

I wondered the same thing. Who knows how long the suicide note was and how many reasons were mentioned.

Foolmewunz
2nd March 2010, 10:04 PM
This looks like just one of the side effects of GW alarmism.

Sure, exaggerating the problems will get people to act. But act how?

Absolutely.... if you have AGW coloured specs.

I don't think anyone can deny that parents who would kill their own children are a little unhinged, to say the least. Global Warming, Chemtrails, the quake cutting a fraction of a millisecond of the length of a day, fluoride, genetically enhanced food, Planet X, etc.... Pick your topic. They might've gone off the deep end over any of them.

As mentioned above, GW was the excuse, not the reason. The reason was that they were frakkin' nuts.

Hallo Alfie
2nd March 2010, 10:21 PM
Hmmm

I actually agree that they can't have been completely right in the head (so to speak), but does that mean that the reason (or excuse) doesn't bears some responsibility?

For example. There was a case recently where a very young lady killed herself after harrasment in the wrokplace. She was working in a hostile environment whereby her boss had wandering hands at the same time as using verbal abusive and ridicule. She was subject to some months of this to the point where a few other employees made comment that things had gone over the top. It seems things didn't stop.

Now, clearly the young lass was not in her right mind when she topped herself, but the judge found the employer culpable and found against him in court and gave out some large fines and compensation.

Being unhinged didn't cut it as a defense.

Foolmewunz
2nd March 2010, 10:27 PM
Alfie,
If it turns out that there's half as exciting a back-story to this, then I'll probably agree. But they live in rural Argentina and there's nothing offered in evidence as to GW having any important impact on them or their community, and from the contents of the article, I'm going with "garden variety nutso crazies" until there's something else.

Travis
2nd March 2010, 10:32 PM
If someone killed their kids because they were afraid of the effects that the HAARP Earthquake Machine might have on them should we go shutdown HAARP in spite of the fact that it can't actually create earthquakes no matter how many nutters say so?

Just because some people have created wild fantasies about what Global Warming will do doesn't mean we have to crackdown on all climate change activists.

Hallo Alfie
3rd March 2010, 12:00 AM
Alfie,
If it turns out that there's half as exciting a back-story to this, then I'll probably agree. But they live in rural Argentina and there's nothing offered in evidence as to GW having any important impact on them or their community, and from the contents of the article, I'm going with "garden variety nutso crazies" until there's something else.

Fair enough too.

If someone killed their kids because they were afraid of the effects that the HAARP Earthquake Machine might have on them should we go shutdown HAARP in spite of the fact that it can't actually create earthquakes no matter how many nutters say so?

Just because some people have created wild fantasies about what Global Warming will do doesn't mean we have to crackdown on all climate change activists.

Agreed

If I'm trying to make any point apart from "just saying", it would be that over the top alarmist predictions could/should/might somehow be tempered.

Fishstick
3rd March 2010, 01:08 AM
Fair enough too.



Agreed

If I'm trying to make any point apart from "just saying", it would be that over the top alarmist predictions could/should/might somehow be tempered.

Fat chance. Worst case scenarios are what sells newspapers and gets people to watch movies, regardless of the actual science.

varwoche
3rd March 2010, 07:23 AM
If I'm trying to make any point apart from "just saying", it would be that over the top alarmist predictions could/should/might somehow be tempered. And who defines what constitutes over the top? Someone who steadfastly refuses to even look at scientific facts?

It's rather pathetic to use an event like this to further your anti-science campaign.

Hallo Alfie
3rd March 2010, 03:33 PM
And who defines what constitutes over the top? Someone who steadfastly refuses to even look at scientific facts?

It's rather pathetic to use an event like this to further your anti-science campaign.

Nice ad hom - actually no, it was pissweak as well as an outright lie.
Where have I ever said, acknowledged or refused to look at scientific facts?
Please prove or retract (I wont ask for an apology as I know they only come from adults).

Let's stick to the topic, rather than engage in the usual groupthink ad hom/stereotype tactics, shall we?

So who decides? A good question and one I was asking in a roundabout way. I am not sure and as Fishstick so aptly put "Fat chance". Do you have any suggestions or just the usual bile?

plumjam
3rd March 2010, 04:29 PM
.. But they live in rural Argentina and there's nothing offered in evidence as to GW having any important impact on them or their community, ..

They had to kill the baby; they were worried there'd be no Pampas left.

:x:

Nosi
3rd March 2010, 05:14 PM
Some mental illnesses distort the reality around you. It's like living your life in a horror movie where all five senses are involved, rather like ultra 3D. One or two of these illnesses, along with the GW propaganda, can create a false reality more real than the one everyone else lives.

When it is your brain that is broken, it is hard to tell that it is your reality that is broken. If a cat curls up on your foot, for example, you will say "I've a cat on my foot." Being told there is no cat is not going to cut a lot of dice, unless you have the mental flexibility to understand reality can be an illusion.

If you see a reality like "The Road" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0898367/) coming at you like a steam train, it is, in your mind, a kindness to take your precious babies out of it.

varwoche
3rd March 2010, 07:11 PM
Where have I ever said, acknowledged or refused to look at scientific facts? Constantly. And no, I don't give you credit for citing Lord Monckton.

So who decides? A good question and one I was asking in a roundabout way. Actually, the question is inane because it's based on a premise so supremely idiotic that it boggles the mind.

Hallo Alfie
3rd March 2010, 07:17 PM
Constantly.

Prove it or retract it.
Otherwise you prove yourself to be a LIAR and I am calling you on it.

So again show me:
Where have I ever said, acknowledged or refused to look at scientific facts?

Actually, the question is inane because it's based on a premise so supremely idiotic that it boggles the mind.

So you are either defending alarmism or denying its' existence. If something else, please elaborate.

varwoche
3rd March 2010, 07:50 PM
So you are either defending alarmism or denying its' existence. If something else, please elaborate. Neither. Pay better attention please.

The supremely idiotic premise I refer to is your stated wish to "temper" unnamed alarmists because you hold them responsible for the actions of mentally ill (now dead) people. That you would milk these circumstances in order to advance your pet anti-science agenda is sorry indeed.

Hallo Alfie
3rd March 2010, 09:24 PM
Neither. Pay better attention please.

I have been - did you in fact note what you were objecting to? I think the inanity belongs to you.
It was in fact you who posed the question "who decides?" which ran on the back of a legal example I gave.
So I presumed from these and other comments - and I would have thought with some justification - that you either defended or denied alarmist techniques. I also asked, if not what? But the answer apparently is your own inanity.

As to the "premise", it was nothing more than a question (maybe a hope) that I put up, but as usual, you come back with the usual warmer groupthink lies.

Now about that lie you made up about me.

Retract it or prove it.

varwoche
4th March 2010, 07:21 AM
It was in fact you who posed the question "who decides?" which ran on the back of a legal example I gave. Yes. Straight from the theater of the absurd.

So I presumed from these and other comments - and I would have thought with some justification - that you either defended or denied alarmist techniques. And now you know that your presumption was wrong.

As to the "premise", it was nothing more than a question (maybe a hope) that I put up Just asking questions huh? Ya sure. Your "maybe a hope" is one of the most bizarre things I've read on this forum in 6 years now.

By the way, I'd like to introduce you to a symbol known as the question mark: ?

Now about that lie you made up about me.

Retract it or prove it. My opinion is based on your posting history, the details of which would derail this outstanding thread.

I can see though why you want to change the subject away from your truly twisted suggestion that unnamed alarmists are responsible for the suicide / murder, and that something be done about it.

Hallo Alfie
5th March 2010, 01:09 AM
Meh.

You cant prove it. Your lie stands for all to see.