Exter Credit?

[Jeff Corey]

Dr, Corey
I was wondering if your are offering any exter credit for psych XX ?
Thnanks
xxxx xxxx
So I was wondering if any educators here ever get these pleas from students who are failing a course to make it up by an exter credit assignment. How the fark can a person who knows nothing about the course material make up for not knowing it? Especially if you use Turnitin.dot.com to detect plagiarism.
And where does this come from, anyway? I never heard of it, before these little weasels started it.

[bpesta22]

My standard reply is I can't give just you extra credit; I'd have to give all students the same opportunity. Then, everyone would do the EC and I'd give all A's and get in trouble. Instead, focus on the next exams, or if it's too late, please consider dropping and taking it again when you have more time you can devote to mastering the material.

Unless they're attractive, in which case I do give them EC....;)

[The True Scotsman]

I'd say offer an extra credit assignment to everyone in the class, but make it such a pain in the a$$ to do that only people who really need the credit will actually do it. If it is truly a situation where the student just isn't getting it, he will either do it and, depending on the difficulty of the assignment, pick up on the information he wasn't understanding before (increasing his proficiency in the subject) or he'll just say "**** it!" and will drop the class.

[Lucian]

Dr, Corey
I was wondering if your are offering any exter credit for psych XX ?
Thnanks
xxxx xxxx
So I was wondering if any educators here ever get these pleas from students who are failing a course to make it up by an exter credit assignment. How the fark can a person who knows nothing about the course material make up for not knowing it? Especially if you use Turnitin.dot.com to detect plagiarism.
And where does this come from, anyway? I never heard of it, before these little weasels started it.

I teach mostly writing classes, and occasionally a student will ask for extra credit. I allow my students to revise papers, within certain restrictions. There are also some assignments, like peer evaluations of classmates' papers and self evaluations of their own writing, that will likely earn an A if they make a good faith effort. These assignments aren't worth that much, but they do count--if the student bothers to do them with any diligence. So, no, I don't offer extra credit.

Did the student really ask for "exter" credit? I know anyone can make a typo, but I am sometimes gobsmacked by emails I get from my students. I always think, "You know how we talked about 'audience'? There's a whole chapter in the book about assessing your audience and addressing the reader effectively. You know I'm an English teacher, right? You know I'm your English teacher, yes? For the love of God, use the shift key and some punctuation!"

[Smackety]

My daughter in high school is usually failing her classes at the end of the semester and has on many occasions brought her grade all the way up to an A or B with exter credit offered by the teacher. I never really saw any in college, but recent high school grads are probably used to doing nothing until the last week of the class and then doing exter credit - at least that is what my kid does.

ETA: I am sure when she goes to college she will be asking for exter credit.

[Fnord]

The same standards must be applied to everybody all of the time, or they should not be applied to anybody at any time at all.

"Extra Credit" -- if ever allowed -- should be available only to those that have already completed all of their ordinary assignments, and only to allow them to raise their grade if it is less than the maximum. Extra work yields extra credit.

And a student that uses poor spelling is not likely to raise their grade by much.

"Exter" =/= "Extra"

[drkitten]

The same standards must be applied to everybody all of the time, or they should not be applied to anybody at any time at all.

I'm not convinced of that. I'm perfectly happy applying the same meta-standards to everyone (i.e. the same standards will be applied to everyone in this situation). Just as an example, I believe I am required by both law and college policy to allow opportunities to students who miss work due to military callup. (That actually came up once a few years ago; some students were called up to the National Guard to go sandbag a river or something and missed midterms. The dean made it clear that any faculty member who did not allow the students to make up work upon their return would suffer,.... displeasure.)

So the first question that I would ask (if I were Jeff) is "why should I offer you an opportunity that I do not routinely offer the rest of the class," and I'd happily giving extra credit if the answer makes sense.

I say that with firm confidence that the answer would not make sense and there would be little need for a second question. But sometimes I get surprised.

A student who got trapped by Snowmageddon, for example, might have a genuine reason for missing work. It's hard even to email a teacher to request an extension if you don't have power or internet.

[Lucian]

I'm not convinced of that. I'm perfectly happy applying the same meta-standards to everyone (i.e. the same standards will be applied to everyone in this situation). Just as an example, I believe I am required by both law and college policy to allow opportunities to students who miss work due to military callup. (That actually came up once a few years ago; some students were called up to the National Guard to go sandbag a river or something and missed midterms. The dean made it clear that any faculty member who did not allow the students to make up work upon their return would suffer,.... displeasure.)

So the first question that I would ask (if I were Jeff) is "why should I offer you an opportunity that I do not routinely offer the rest of the class," and I'd happily giving extra credit if the answer makes sense.

I say that with firm confidence that the answer would not make sense and there would be little need for a second question. But sometimes I get surprised.

A student who got trapped by Snowmageddon, for example, might have a genuine reason for missing work. It's hard even to email a teacher to request an extension if you don't have power or internet.

Well, the situations you've suggested wouldn't be extra credit, though, would they? The students would be making up work/tests/assignments they missed through no fault of their own.

[drkitten]

Well, the situations you've suggested wouldn't be extra credit, though, would they? The students would be making up work/tests/assignments they missed through no fault of their own.

Depends on how you look at it, I guess.

The dean would not have had a problem if I had offered the returning Guardsmen "extra credit" in lieu of makeup work, as long as the extra credit wasn't unreasonably onerous. (In fact, most of them would probably have preferred writing another paper or something to sitting a makeup test that they hadn't really had a chance to study for.)

My point is simply that circumstances do alter cases and I consider it to be perfectly fine to offer extra credit to one student while withholding it from another, differently situated, one.

[MattC]

My point is simply that circumstances do alter cases and I consider it to be perfectly fine to offer extra credit to one student while withholding it from another, differently situated, one.

For me, I hinge my willingness to do this upon either prior warning or documentation - make me aware of it in advance and I don't care much about what the excuse is. Should it be some strange happenstance, show me some documentation of it and I'll work up some way to help.

For quote-unquote "extra credit" opportunities, I've found it convenient to offer an "optional assignment" (normally an essay with a topic tangential to the course goals to force accurate research) that is graded based upon merit. The topics of this essay vary a bit, I try to force students to research on their own in an attempt to better familiarize them with the researching methods available.

~ Matt

(ETA: to be fair I've never had a student ask me for "exter" credit before, so take it as you will)

[Lucian]

Depends on how you look at it, I guess.

The dean would not have had a problem if I had offered the returning Guardsmen "extra credit" in lieu of makeup work, as long as the extra credit wasn't unreasonably onerous. (In fact, most of them would probably have preferred writing another paper or something to sitting a makeup test that they hadn't really had a chance to study for.)

My point is simply that circumstances do alter cases and I consider it to be perfectly fine to offer extra credit to one student while withholding it from another, differently situated, one.

I can understand having students do a different task to make up for a missed one (a paper instead of a test, for instance) in certain circumstances; however, I think of extra credit as something beyond the stated requirements of the class, rather than something in place of a requirement. As you say, I guess it depends on what "extra credit" means to you. Or "exter credit" of course.

[drkitten]

For me, I hinge my willingness to do this upon either prior warning or documentation - make me aware of it in advance and I don't care much about what the excuse is. Should it be some strange happenstance, show me some documentation of it and I'll work up some way to help.

That's basically my rule as well.

The other thing I've found that works well is to express my willingness to "go along with anything that makes sense" (where "sense" of course, is defined to include things like compliance with relevant laws, college policies, and basic fairness to all involved including the other students in the class).

Students who actually have a genuine case to make can usually find some way to make it "make sense"; the one who are simply throwing themselves on my mercy almost invariably can't. When the only reason that you need/want an opportunity for additional credit is that you didn't study hard enough for a test, even my students generally recognize that that doesn't make sense. If the reason is because they couldn't study because they were strapped to a hospital gurney suffering from seizures, they can usually point out a set of "sensible" extenuating circumstances."

Even if they can't spell "extenuating." Or even "extra."

[bpesta22]

Another negative to EC is that it's more work. So, don't let em have it!

[Loss Leader]

I just finished reading a guide book for rookie teachers. The writer said that high school students constantly ask for extra credit, that it was an excellent motivator, and that he gave lots of opportunities for it. He also seemed to favor offering extra credit to some students but not all. For instance, when he had a student who needed help writing class notes (because of a learning disability), he gave a girl extra credit to provide him with her notes.

No teaching experience of my own, so I don't have an opinion. I never did extra credit in school. I hated doing my regular work, I certainly wasn't about to do more.

[Jeff Corey]

This student didn't miss classes due to the flu or a blizzard, he or she just consistently does badly on the weekly short quizzes.
And the "exter" was not a typo, but the "Exeter credit" in the title of the email may have been a typo of an error. It sure puzzled me - what's this student talking about? Credit at an expensive prep school?

[Michael Redman]

Maybe you should allow the student an opportunity to make up for the credit he or she lost in your estimation by sending the note in the first place.

[Fnord]

First, I am not a teacher. I am an electrical engineer.

Second, I train people, I do not teach them.

It's a subtle difference, to be sure. At the very basic level, teaching involves imparting knowledge and includes guiding students in their studies -- practical application is not emphasized as long as the student can pass the test. Training involves imparting skill, usually through repetition and corrective drills -- theory and principle are not emphasized as long as the trainee can do the job.

Thus, teaching is about knowledge, while training is about skill. You might teach music theory and the principles of musical composition, but you train someone to tune a piano. I know this is over-simplified and that there is a tremendous overlap, but there it is.

So, as a "Trainer" I run into a lot of people that are looking for the Cliff Notes version of "How to Integrate Process Control in a Dynamic Data Environment", or the golden path to knowledge. Some just want me to "sign off" on their qualifications in order to advance in rank (this happened a lot in the Navy). And of course, some people want certification for just showing up.

Under my training, everybody gets the same hand-outs, works from the same manuals, and receives instruction and testing on the same systems. If they pay attention, take notes, ask relevant questions, and takes the opportunity to demonstrate their learning during the "hands on operation" portion of the training, I sign off -- "Omni-Domni, go in peace" -- but only if each trainee has demonstrated his or her own individual proficiency; there are no "group certificates". If instead, they show up late (or not at all), ignore the hand-outs and manuals, ask irrelevant questions and crack jokes, and wander off at every opportunity, the "hands on" portion is usually embarrassing for them and they do not get a sign-off from me.

For these losers, their requests for "extra credit" usually involve bribes, cajoling or even threats. Some come right out and ask for a do-over. Since I usually schedule one session in the morning and another in the afternoon, this is not a problem for me. It may be a problem for them, however, if they were scheduled for the morning session and expected back on the job after lunch, or if they were scheduled for the afternoon session and blew it off expecting to get by on "extra credit".

So I have a somewhat rigid standard insofar as requiring my students / trainees to do their parts -- I do mine, why won't they do theirs?