ABC interview Dylan and Korey at "Treason in America Conference"

[scissorhands]

From the "Treason in America Conference".

In this truther made video, it is virtually impossible to hear the ABC reporters questions or comments, yet Do Over and his deserter sidekick, sound loud and clear.

Anyway, prepare your sickbags and here we go ....(again)...

3DqnL8Nv8jg

qxkRiT_w9JE

[TruthersLie]

Dude....

dylan is looking rather scruffy... I wonder if he gets the munchies a lot dude.

Sweet!!!

[R.Mackey]

:shaggy:

Poor kid. Still hasn't grasped the difference between "famous" and "infamous." Ah well, he's young, he still has time to figure it out and make some kind of positive contribution.

[TruthersLie]

<snort>

the tea party movement started with the 9/11 truth movement...

I just blew coffee on my screen...

[beachnut]

Exposing themselves as idiot researchers who can't figure out 911 after 8 years. They have not figured out after all these years they have no evidence.

[Brainster]

<snort>

the tea party movement started with the 9/11 truth movement...

I just blew coffee on my screen...

It's a reach, but Korey was talking about this crazy event back in 2006:
IHhQ71I_fwI

The Troofers dumped a bunch of faux copies of the 9-11 Commission report in the Boston Harbor. IIRC, there were a couple other protests like this in Wisconsin and in San Francisco.

[bill smith]

:shaggy:

Poor kid. Still hasn't grasped the difference between "famous" and "infamous." Ah well, he's young, he still has time to figure it out and make some kind of positive contribution.

Nah he has already made a massive contribution, He should step back now and get on with his life. He has given enough.

[sadhatter]

It's a reach, but Korey was talking about this crazy event back in 2006:
IHhQ71I_fwI

The Troofers dumped a bunch of faux copies of the 9-11 Commission report in the Boston Harbor. IIRC, there were a couple other protests like this in Wisconsin and in San Francisco.

9/11 truth, you have facts, we have litter.

[VespaGuy]

Damn. I watched that whole video expecting Dylan and Korey to rip a mask off of someone to show that old-man Johnson from the carnival was behind 9/11. I mean, why else would he be dressed like Shaggy from Scooby Doo, right?

[T.A.M.]

Nah he has already made a massive contribution, He should step back now and get on with his life. He has given enough.

yes but he won't...Idiocy, the gift that keeps on giving.

TAM;)

[Jonnyclueless]

:shaggy:

Poor kid. Still hasn't grasped the difference between "famous" and "infamous.".

This will help explain it for them.

GIGtHhAfe8w

[R.Mackey]

Yes, precisely what I was going for. :D

[PookztA]

Thank you again for sharing this videos. I enjoyed them.

You can see how much those two young men care about their country, ESPECIALLY the veteran (the one without the long hair).

It amazes how how he has served our country in the military, and is now acting in our country's best interest by getting this information out there. That is a true patriot, what a brave person, served in the military, and is now asking the hard questions that so few people are willing to ask.

Thank you for these videos, they were inspiring.

-Abe

[carlitos]

- Appeal to Authority
- No true Scotsman
- Red Herring
- Poisoning the well
- etc.

Wow. 7:00 into the second tape, they get pissed at the reporter for "just asking questions" (about the passengers on the planes). That is super-duper awesome on the irony meter. Fan-freaking-tastic. They got so mad that he "just asked" a question.

Oh My God. "When we donate money to the first responders!" Tell me that Korey didn't say that! I am going to dig up my emails to / from Microvision (regarding the "Avery Foundation") and send them to ABC news. Did anyone catch the name of the reporter? I will forward to him ASAP. I don't watch ABC News so didn't recognize him. Thanks in advance.

Last note - write it down. "We aren't going to make any more movies." LOL.

[Profanz]

Thanks for posting that.

But I thought you guys didn't like Dylan? If that's the case why would you show him completely destroying that guy from ABC? And then all of you here with all your lame replies... really??? Come on now. I would love to see ABC try and edit that to whatever agenda they were pushing towards.

[Arus808]

Dylan didn't destroy anyone. Your bias is severely blinding you.

[Profanz]

Dylan didn't destroy anyone. Your bias is severely blinding you.

Please quote one point that ABC imbecile made. Either in statement or question.

[Sam.I.Am]

You can see how much those two young men care about their country, ESPECIALLY the veteran (the one without the long hair).

That is so funny and I'll bet you don't even know why...

[Garb]

"They allowed the killing of innocent Americans"
"Why would they do that?"
"Why wouldn't they?"

Oh that is rich, Dylan.

[Profanz]

:shaggy:

Poor kid. Still hasn't grasped the difference between "famous" and "infamous." Ah well, he's young, he still has time to figure it out and make some kind of positive contribution.

Poor kid? And you're still posting here. You're so successful. Will ABC be looking you up anytime soon?

[ElMondoHummus]

:shaggy:

Poor kid. Still hasn't grasped the difference between "famous" and "infamous." Ah well, he's young, he still has time to figure it out and make some kind of positive contribution.

Problem is, Ryan, that he's going in the wrong direction.

[Profanz]

"They allowed the killing of innocent Americans"
"Why would they do that?"
"Why wouldn't they?"

Oh that is rich, Dylan.

Why don't you answer it? How many more died today? Did they find those WMD's yet? How about Osama? Will you be signing up any time soon?

[Profanz]

Problem is, Ryan, that he's going in the wrong direction.

How so?

[AJM8125]

Looks like somebody hit a nerve.

[Garb]

Why don't you answer it? How many more died today? Did they find those WMD's yet? How about Osama? Will you be signing up any time soon?

Why should I?

[Profanz]

Why should I?

I guess you shouldn't. Just don't ask about it if you choose to remain ignorant. Because someone might call you on it.

[Garb]

I guess you shouldn't. Just don't ask about it if you choose to remain ignorant. Because someone might call you on it.

Ask about what?

I'm sorry that I considered Avery's response to be rich. I promise I won't do it again.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I can't think of two people who know more about treason than Korey "Yellowbelly" Rowe and Dylan Avery.

[Profanz]

Ask about what?

I'm sorry that I considered Avery's response to be rich. I promise I won't do it again.

You're just a bunch of non sequitur nonsense aren't you? Does that usually work for you?

[Garb]

You're just a bunch of non sequitur nonsense aren't you? Does that usually work for you?

Explain how anything I've said in this thread is a non sequitur.

You seem to have no idea what you are talking about.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Anyone else suprised that the truthers are openly holding a public conference on how to commit "Treason In America" or is it that after killing three police officers, two doctors and a security guard that nothing they do shocks us anymore?

[stevea]

Interesting. It seems that all conspiracy theories have an element of what I call a "closed belief system". They can't believe published reports, except the few that agree with their position, since others are all corrupt. They therefore presume the senate investigators are all corrupt, the news media is corrupt, popular science mag is corrupt, but have no evidence or explanation for this vast powerful conspiracy. It's a bit like a cult were we tell all the initiates that only members tell the truth and everyone else is a liar ,then we give some strange viewpoint. If you can get the initiate to believe or even consider the premise then everything else (mostly) makes sense.

It's interesting as a defective meme (perhaps someone has better terminology). It's a form of thought contagion that leads to negative outcomes.

[A W Smith]

very awesome videos! i like how they call out ABC News for asking the most loaded questions. they did a great job answering them.

I see there are lots of closed-minded folks here that like to make fun of other people for being concerned for their country... very sad indeed.

I recommend looking up SIBEL EDMONDS, the FBI whistle-blower that was gagged regarding 9/11 because of what she knew.

I recommend looking up the fact that Donald Rumsfeld Announced $2.3 TRILLION dollars had gone missing from the Pentagon on September 10th, 2001

I recommend looking up OPERATION NORTHWOODS.

The truth is coming out, and the haters can hate, but the love will prevail!

-Abe
Sibel Edmonds (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=sibel+edmonds+site%3Arandi.org&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=sibel+edmonds+site%3Arandi.org&fp=d5719758e3bc2e7a)

Donald Rumsfeld $2.3 Trillion (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=Donald+Rumsfeld+%242.3+trillion+site%3Arandi.org&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=Donald+Rumsfeld+%242.3+trillion+site%3Arandi.or g&fp=d5719758e3bc2e7a)

Operation northwoods (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=operation+northwoods+site%3Arandi.org&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=operation+northwoods+site%3Arandi.org&fp=d5719758e3bc2e7a)

[Army of One]

But I thought you guys didn't like Dylan? If that's the case why would you show him completely destroying that guy from ABC?.Um, you do realize that "that guy from ABC" wasn't attempting to debate Dylan, right? He was interviewing him. Your conclusion that Dylan "completely destroyed" him is a ridiculous take on the whole situation.

Anyway, it's interesting to see (at 4:14 of first video) that Dylan still acts as though he is an expert on the Secret Service's standard operating procedures. I'm still waiting for him (or any other truther) to present some actual evidence to back up their insinuations that the Secret Service should have behaved differently on the morning of 9/11. He goes on to end his response by stating that Bush "was allowed to sit there and do nothing for a half-hour while innocent people died; You tell me whether or not they allowed people to be slaughtered!" I'm having trouble following the logic there. How would Bush's immediate extraction from the school have prevented a single death on 9/11?

And I love how his response to the very next question (4:42) is "You just want us to sit here and speculate! I'm not going to do it!" Lol....what?!?!? You just got done speculating on how the Secret Service should have responded. Furthermore, the question that sparked this response from Dylan ("how many people would have had to have been involved in such a plot?") was a fair and logical question. And of course after Dylan's outrage at such a "loaded question", what happens? Korey immediately jumps in to speculate how such a plot could be carried out without the perpetrators even knowing that they were involved [and amazingly, no one connected the dots afterward!].

How anyone can be dumb enough to be deceived by the lunacy of these two idiots is beyond me.

[Hokulele]

Welcome to the forums, Army of One!

[Arus808]

How anyone can be dumb enough to be deceived by the lunacy of these two idiots is beyond me.


how can anyone be dumb enough to believe anything that comes out of those two morons mouths, AFTER Dylan was SCHOOLED by the BBC on what a simile is, KOREY was SCHOOLED by a young woman with more balls than he has, and that they WERE CORRECTED several times and STILL repeat the same lies they have been telling for nearly 10 years?

[A W Smith]

Nice to see that Kory Rowe thinks that desertion is "doing more for this country than 95% of the people"

[Army of One]

Welcome to the forums, Army of One!Thanks Hokulele. I've been lurking for awhile, and finally decided to post something. :)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Thanks Hokulele. I've been lurking for awhile, and finally decided to post something. :)


I'm sorry, but those old "Be an Army of One" recruitment ads are a pile of crap.

I tried doing the "Army of One" thing on a 64-player Battlefield server once and the "Army of Sixty-Three" kicked my ass. :D


On a slightly more serious note, welcome aboard the crazy train Aof1. Hold onto your tinfoil beanie, it's a wild (and stupid) ride. ;)

[Sam.I.Am]

I'm sorry, but those old "Be an Army of One" recruitment ads are a pile of crap.

I tried doing the "Army of One" thing on a 64-player Battlefield server once and the "Army of Sixty-Three" kicked my ass. :D


On a slightly more serious note, welcome aboard the crazy train Aof1. Hold onto your tinfoil beanie, it's a wild (and stupid) ride. ;)

You need to use the "Army of terminators" hack on a non-punkbusters server...:D

[Arus808]

I'm sorry, but those old "Be an Army of One" recruitment ads are a pile of crap.

I tried doing the "Army of One" thing on a 64-player Battlefield server once and the "Army of Sixty-Three" kicked my ass. :D


On a slightly more serious note, welcome aboard the crazy train Aof1. Hold onto your tinfoil beanie, it's a wild (and stupid) ride. ;)


yes welcome aboard.

army of sixy three...well I was doing well in Army of 2... ^_^

[Army of One]

[derail]
I'm sorry, but those old "Be an Army of One" recruitment ads are a pile of crap.Oh, I agree. It has to be the most ridiculous recruiting slogan ever used by any branch of the U.S. military. I chose the screen-name mostly as a joke.

[Ducky]

That is so funny and I'll bet you don't even know why...

Amusingly, this is the first link (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=88181) on google for the keywords "korey deserter."

[Sword_Of_Truth]

When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled.
Brave, brave, brave Private Koreeeeeeeyyy...

[Sabrina]

Thank you again for sharing this videos. I enjoyed them.

You can see how much those two young men care about their country, ESPECIALLY the veteran (the one without the long hair).

It amazes how how he has served our country in the military, and is now acting in our country's best interest by getting this information out there. That is a true patriot, what a brave person, served in the military, and is now asking the hard questions that so few people are willing to ask.

Thank you for these videos, they were inspiring.

-Abe

Korey is not a VETERAN. He is a DESERTER who was given a Bad Conduct Discharge and kicked out of the military. He forgot the seven Army Values; Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Integrity, Honor, and Personal Courage, but most especially forgot the four I bolded. He failed in his loyalty by deserting his fellow soldiers, he failed in his duty by disobeying the lawful orders of his superiors, he failed in his integrity by not manning up and taking his punishment like a man, and he failed in his honor when he did not follow the oath he took.

Speaking as a current member of the US Military, I am insulted that you lump people like my soldiers and superiors in with crap like Korey. He is not fit to clean the **** off the bottom of the lowliest private's shoe. He deserved his BCD, and I thank whatever deities there may be that having such a discharge on his record will mean that he will have trouble for the rest of his LIFE in getting a decent job. Right now he's riding on Dylan's coattails, but they can only milk this for so long before people start noticing that they're not doing ANYTHING to correct the supposed "wrongs" they claim the US Government was responsible for.

Kindly never refer to Korey as a veteran again in the presence of people who have actually served with dignity and honor, and who can legitimately claim the title of "veteran".

[TruthersLie]

Korey is not a VETERAN. He is a DESERTER who was given a Bad Conduct Discharge and kicked out of the military. He forgot the seven Army Values; Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Integrity, Honor, and Personal Courage, but most especially forgot the four I bolded. He failed in his loyalty by deserting his fellow soldiers, he failed in his duty by disobeying the lawful orders of his superiors, he failed in his integrity by not manning up and taking his punishment like a man, and he failed in his honor when he did not follow the oath he took.

Speaking as a current member of the US Military, I am insulted that you lump people like my soldiers and superiors in with crap like Korey. He is not fit to clean the **** off the bottom of the lowliest private's shoe. He deserved his BCD, and I thank whatever deities there may be that having such a discharge on his record will mean that he will have trouble for the rest of his LIFE in getting a decent job. Right now he's riding on Dylan's coattails, but they can only milk this for so long before people start noticing that they're not doing ANYTHING to correct the supposed "wrongs" they claim the US Government was responsible for.

Kindly never refer to Korey as a veteran again in the presence of people who have actually served with dignity and honor, and who can legitimately claim the title of "veteran".

Nominated. And I can't agree enough.

[fallout]

Something else that never happened. "Northwoods" got rejected.

I'm really interested in this piece, and I tell you: no confrontation intended (can never be too cautious around here).

It was declassified prior to 9/11 attacks right? I agree that i'ts kind of nonsense saying that 9/11 WAS northwoods execution. But as I understand, the whole argument truthers bring about regarding northwoods, is because of the possibility that the government MIGHT have plans of staging phony battles for achieving their own goals. Which doesn't prove whatsoever that 9/11 was an inside job, but rather shows that known official military documents on staging "terrorism" is already public and known. I hope I made myself clear on my question.

[fallout]

Speaking as a current member of the US Military....

Enough said for your bias.

[TruthersLie]

I'm really interested in this piece, and I tell you: no confrontation intended (can never be too cautious around here).

It was declassified prior to 9/11 attacks right? I agree that i'ts kind of nonsense saying that 9/11 WAS northwoods execution. But as I understand, the whole argument truthers bring about regarding northwoods, is because of the possibility that the government MIGHT have plans of staging phony battles for achieving their own goals. Which doesn't prove whatsoever that 9/11 was an inside job, but rather shows that known official military documents on staging "terrorism" is already public and known. I hope I made myself clear on my question.

The problem with northwoods as an example is that in northwoods NO US CIVILIANS were to be hurt or killed.

Even in an plan which had a false flag event, NO US CITIZENS were to be harmed.

AND the northwoods operation still followed teh KISS rule. What they proposed was linear and it had a very straight forward execution. Not the rube goldberg conspiracy machine.

[ElMondoHummus]

Enough said for your bias.

I'm incredulous about this. Who better than a current member of the Army to judge another soldier? Yet, that's taken to be a source of "bias", and not experience.

[carlitos]

-I am going to dig up my emails to / from Microvision Microcinema (regarding the "Avery Foundation") and send them to ABC news. Did anyone catch the name of the reporter? I will forward to him ASAP. I don't watch ABC News so didn't recognize him. Thanks in advance.

ETA - I will add the Korey Rowe arrest for desertion for good measure.

[fallout]

The problem with northwoods as an example is that in northwoods NO US CIVILIANS were to be hurt or killed.

Yep I know that. Didn´t intend to say it was about killing americans. I read the document and the topics. The distinction is solid, no dispute.

It does bring into light though, that staged terrorism was, and probably still is, present in the repertoire of many countries warplans to justify actions toward their geopolitical/economic disputes.

[Roadtoad]

Sorry I missed so much of this. But Korey Rowe isn't the only assclown who's stunk up the whole business of 9/11.

More to say later. With shame, but needing to be said.

[Sabrina]

Enough said for your bias.

ExCUSE me?

Bias? I work every day around people who would view Korey Rowe as the ultimate loser (and not all the people I work around are military or have that in their background, by the way), but all of a sudden me using my eight+ YEARS of military experience, during which I have seen good and bad soldiers and officers, is bias? Not even the soldiers or officers whom I or others would consider to be "bad" would consider Korey Rowe to be anything less than the scum of the earth. There is NO EXCUSE for desertion; NONE. That is not bias; that is sheer disgust for a person (I can't even call him a "man") who does not hold his word and his honor as one of the most important things in his life. Would you consider it bias if I said the same thing speaking as a civilian? Because that's the hat I'm wearing at the moment, and I know of NO ONE who I work with or around that would consider that deserter to be anything less than garbage. It doesn't matter if you're military OR civilian; if you give your word you will do something, you either do it, or offer extentuating circumstances as to why you were unable to do it; you don't quietly bugger off and hope no one ever calls you on it. If that's bias, so be it; my point still stands. Korey Rowe should NEVER be called a veteran; he did not earn the title with his blood, sweat, and tears the way most veterans have. He was never even sent overseas! You don't earn the title, you don't get called the title. Simple as that.

[fallout]

I'm incredulous about this. Who better than a current member of the Army to judge another soldier? Yet, that's taken to be a source of "bias", and not experience.

I call for bias, sorry for the inconvenience. I know how emotionally attached is a member of the army. Being completely out of any military for my life, fortunately, I can safely say that it is bias, and it's understandable from the emotional point of view.

I perfectly see Korey's point about this. Some people are really different from others, some will freak out and rage when they see what they are about to help carry on, i.e. being on combat and seeing friends being shread to pieces 2 minutes after they told you a joke, that when you don't think the cause is noble. I would desert, in afghanistan or iraq, for sure! Would only carry the fight on, when I would be convinced that the war had legitimate and morally valid causes. My freedom. See how we have do go deep into political and subjective issues as to deal with it from this point on? The debate around the punishment for desertion could be really endless, if they soften it, the probability of having unreliable soldiers raises which tends to screw the army. Yet I personally think that military personel understand why a soldier is led to desert, they engage in extreme and hellish operations, yet they can't do anything but apply the punishment because of the problem I cited above. The rest is purely emotive, I recognize the problems regarding this, don't worry. It is really a hard choice to make.

And I know what the army requires from a soldier to call him veteran. Hence, the bias is understandable.

[fallout]

deleted, need to rephrase it better

[Roadtoad]

*Ahem..* (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korey_Rowe)

Just to point out, however, that Sabrina is correct. Desertion is inexcusable. There are channels a soldier can exercise should that individual choose to if they find something particularly objectionable. At the same time, Rowe should have recognized that being a member of the military obligated him to certain tasks and missions, and a return to the Middle East as part of the Stop-Loss was one of them.

As a deserter, he forfeits his credibility, if for no other reason than for those Sabrina has outlined, regardless of his prior "service."

[carlitos]

Korey Rowe should NEVER be called a veteran; he did not earn the title with his blood, sweat, and tears the way most veterans have. He was never even sent overseas! You don't earn the title, you don't get called the title. Simple as that.

First off, thanks for your service, and thanks for your thoughts here.

Secondly, is the highlighted portion correct? At 2:20 in the first video, he identifies himself as "a veteran who served in Afghanistan and Iraq."

Thanks!

[Sabrina]

I call for bias, sorry for the inconvenience. I know how emotionally attached is a member of the army. Being completely out of any military for my life, fortunately, I can safely say that it is bias, and it's understandable from the emotional point of view.

I perfectly see Korey's point about this. Some people are really different from others, some will freak out and rage when they see what they are about to help carry on, i.e. being on combat and seeing friends being shread to pieces 2 minutes after they told you a joke, that when you don't think the cause is noble. I would desert, in afghanistan or iraq, for sure! Would only carry the fight on, when I would be convinced that the war had legitimate and morally valid causes. My freedom. See how we have do go deep into political and subjective issues as to deal with it from this point on? The debate around the punishment for desertion could be really endless, if they soften it, the probability of having unreliable soldiers raises which tends to screw the army. Yet I personally think that military personel understand why a soldier is led to desert, they engage in extreme and hellish operations, yet they can do anything but apply the punishment because of the problem I cited above. The rest is purely emotive, I recognize the problems regarding this, don't worry. It is really a hard choice to make.

And I know what the army requires from a soldier to call him veteran. Hence, the bias is understandable.

Bolding mine. No, you have NO idea what the military requires from a soldier to call him a veteran. I infer from your post that you have never served; do not presume to speak to things you know absolutely nothing about, then.

[Sabrina]

*Ahem..* (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korey_Rowe)

Just to point out, however, that Sabrina is correct. Desertion is inexcusable. There are channels a soldier can exercise should that individual choose to if they find something particularly objectionable. At the same time, Rowe should have recognized that being a member of the military obligated him to certain tasks and missions, and a return to the Middle East as part of the Stop-Loss was one of them.

As a deserter, he forfeits his credibility, if for no other reason than for those Sabrina has outlined, regardless of his prior "service."

Correction noted; as Roadtoad says, however, my point still stands. He has done nothing to deserve the title of "veteran" and EVERYTHING to deserve the title of "deserter", and as such he deserves NO respect for his military service.

[R.Mackey]

Enough said for your bias.

See, this is why so many people think you're a Truther. The above is a nonsense excuse to ignore what she said.

That Mr. Rowe deserted is a fact, not subject to any bias. That he received the Big Chicken Dinner as punishment is also a fact.

I'm not military, never was. So by the standard you wrote above, I have no bias. I respect those who serve, no matter their beliefs (even total wackjobs like Fetzer). Korey has earned absolutely no respect for his conduct, and should not be termed a "veteran."

[Roadtoad]

deleted, need to rephrase it better

Or perhaps it shouldn't be said at all.

You are incorrect in calling Sabrina's position "bias." If I'm reading this right, she has experience on the ground.

If you were to suggest to me that empty trucks are safer than loaded ones, would I be "biased" in telling you that you were full of it? Or would I be biased in explaining to you about axle lock-up, and how that would put a rig out of control? Would I be "biased" in explaining to you about personal experience and the dangers of a jack-knife?

My family farmed the Central Valley of California from the 1850's on up to the 1980's. I was sort of an odd man out, given my dad was military, but we still spent enough time at home for me to learn a thing or two about farming. If I were to go into detail about that operation, there would be bias, simply because I'm not expert enough in the field to give you a credible recitation of sufficient fact to back up what I would assert. A bias would exist because of preconceptions on my part which may or may not be supported by fact.

I can probably sit down with Sabrina, if she's served eight years as she said, (and there's little reason to question that), and probably tell you within a minute or two if there's "bias." (Note: I'm using the word as you have used it.) Got a news flash for you: From what I'm reading, I don't think there's "bias" here, but there is a high degree of outrage that someone who is upholding the standards of the US Military. Fact is contrasted with fiction, (Sabrina's honorable service vs. Korey's desertion and subsequent assertions.)

In a true, dictionary definition of the term, yes, Sabrina might be "biased." But that "bias" is called "fact" by the rest of us.

[JimBenArm]

I'm completely unbiased. I never served one day in the U.S. Army.

Corey Rowe is a total asshat who deserves nothing but contempt. Anyone who can't get an honorable discharge is a complete loser, moron, and a failure.

How's that?

Oh, in the way of complete disclosure, I am a veteran, with 14 years service. However, it was in the Navy, so I didn't lie!

[Dave Rogers]

Oh, in the way of complete disclosure, I am a veteran, with 14 years service. However, it was in the Navy, so I didn't lie!

In fact, as I understand it, that counts as bias against the Army.

Dave

[Roadtoad]

I'm completely unbiased. I never served one day in the U.S. Army.

Corey Rowe is a total asshat who deserves nothing but contempt. Anyone who can't get an honorable discharge is a complete loser, moron, and a failure.

How's that?

Oh, in the way of complete disclosure, I am a veteran, with 14 years service. However, it was in the Navy, so I didn't lie!

Touche, sir! You have just proven multiple points with one succinct post! I salute you!

[TruthersLie]

Yep I know that. Didn´t intend to say it was about killing americans. I read the document and the topics. The distinction is solid, no dispute.

It does bring into light though, that staged terrorism was, and probably still is, present in the repertoire of many countries warplans to justify actions toward their geopolitical/economic disputes.

Ah... but the distinction needs to be noted and repeated.

There are military plans for false flag events. that is a no brainer. There have been previous ones planned.

And I'm sure they have several they could run if they needed to. That is why you plan for it.

BUT pointing to Northwoods shows a lack of critical thinking on truthers parts, a lack of any idea how northwoods actually debunks their claims, and how military planners follow the KISS rule. Hence, it then rules out 9/11 as explained (disjointedly) by truthers.

[fallout]

See, this is why so many people think you're a Truther. The above is a nonsense excuse to ignore what she said.

I read what she said. Till the end.

That Mr. Rowe deserted is a fact, not subject to any bias. fact.

I didn't think on the contrary. And you will probably know it if you re-read.

I'm not military, never was. So by the standard you wrote above, I have no bias. I respect those who serve, no matter their beliefs (even total wackjobs like Fetzer). Korey has earned absolutely no respect for his conduct, and should not be termed a "veteran."

I agree that this standard thing about not being unbiased for not being on army was badly placed. Forget about it, sorry. But let me clarify, I'm not disputing if he is to be called veteran or not, to be honest I wouldn't in anyways call me one if I deserted. Yet I wouldn't troll anyone who would desert, even if I was a loyal soldier untill the end of the campaign. At any rate, I think the reaction was exagerate. I see the discussion as being emotional about how to deal with deserters.

[TruthersLie]

I call for bias, sorry for the inconvenience. I know how emotionally attached is a member of the army. Being completely out of any military for my life, fortunately, I can safely say that it is bias, and it's understandable from the emotional point of view.


Then you are peaking from personal ignorance ok. No problem. Thank you for clearing that up.



I perfectly see Korey's point about this. Some people are really different from others, some will freak out and rage when they see what they are about to help carry on, i.e. being on combat and seeing friends being shread to pieces 2 minutes after they told you a joke, that when you don't think the cause is noble.


You are missing a very important point about the US military. It is completely voluntary. Anyone who enlists chooses to be there.


I would desert, in afghanistan or iraq, for sure!

You volunteer, and then waste peoples time, and possibly waste peoples lives. People depend on you, and you'd cut and run.
why woudl you volunteer in the first place?

There are policies and issues any serviceman can do when they feel that what they are doing is illegal, immoral or is against their beliefs.


Would only carry the fight on, when I would be convinced that the war had legitimate and morally valid causes. My freedom.


And again, if you were in the military you had to volunteer to do it. As such, Sabrina's evaluation is spot on. He is scum and is not a "veteran."


See how we have do go deep into political and subjective issues as to deal with it from this point on? The debate around the punishment for desertion could be really endless, if they soften it, the probability of having unreliable soldiers raises which tends to screw the army. Yet I personally think that military personel understand why a soldier is led to desert, they engage in extreme and hellish operations, yet they can't do anything but apply the punishment because of the problem I cited above.


Then you have no understanding of the policies and procedures in place in the military to deal with contientious objectors or people who believe they are in an unjust or illegal action. They have the policies, and actually getting OUT of the military with a general discharge isn't that hard. There is NO need to desert.


The rest is purely emotive, I recognize the problems regarding this, don't worry. It is really a hard choice to make.

And I know what the army requires from a soldier to call him veteran. Hence, the bias is understandable.

And korey rowe isn't a veteran. He is a dishonorably discharged deserter. A disgrace to the uniform, and a waste of human flesh.

[TruthersLie]

I'm completely unbiased. I never served one day in the U.S. Army.

Corey Rowe is a total asshat who deserves nothing but contempt. Anyone who can't get an honorable discharge is a complete loser, moron, and a failure.

How's that?

Oh, in the way of complete disclosure, I am a veteran, with 14 years service. However, it was in the Navy, so I didn't lie!

Jim.

I have to disagree. I know of several individuals who for one reason or another were unable to complete their tours of service and were given general discharges.

While it isn't a honorable discharge, I see nothing wrong with someone who gets a general discharge for personal reasons. (IMHO)

[R.Mackey]

Yet I wouldn't troll anyone who would desert, even if I was a loyal soldier untill the end of the campaign. At any rate, I think the reaction was exagerate. I see the discussion as being emotional about how to deal with deserters.

We're not "trolling" him because he deserted. We're calling him out for being a loudmouth, know-nothing idiot trying to trick others into accepting the ridiculous and dangerous idea that the United States engineered September 11th, and trying to profit thereby besides. That his followers respect him for being a "veteran," where in reality he is a deserter, only speaks further to the dishonest way in which he markets himself, and the insignificant brainpower of those who admire him.

You're trying to change the subject. Won't work. We've seen it all before. Just admit your mistake and move on, we don't have any problem with that at all.

[JimBenArm]

Jim.

I have to disagree. I know of several individuals who for one reason or another were unable to complete their tours of service and were given general discharges.

While it isn't a honorable discharge, I see nothing wrong with someone who gets a general discharge for personal reasons. (IMHO)

Ah, true. But a BCD takes a (shall we say) special individual!

[Roadtoad]

Jim.

I have to disagree. I know of several individuals who for one reason or another were unable to complete their tours of service and were given general discharges.

While it isn't a honorable discharge, I see nothing wrong with someone who gets a general discharge for personal reasons. (IMHO)

Sorry. Generally Discharged speaking. Perhaps those you know might have received GDs for appropriate reasons, mine was because I was an asshat. I was lucky to get it. And grateful.

And, no, in spite of my E-8 father's assistance and demands, I never got it upgraded. I didn't earn it. I don't deserve it. I won't lie about it.

[Roadtoad]

Ah, true. But a BCD takes a (shall we say) special individual!

Sure, like the dipstick who took a swing at a First Sergeant who was three inches taller, 50 lbs. heavier, and spent his off time in the weight room, who got his BCD the same time I was being sent home.

Hey, he might be up to eating Campbell's Chicken Noodle soup by now.

[JimBenArm]

Sure, like the dipstick who took a swing at a First Sergeant who was three inches taller, 50 lbs. heavier, and spent his off time in the weight room, who got his BCD the same time I was being sent home.

Hey, he might be up to eating Campbell's Chicken Noodle soup by now.

Yep, that's special!

[fallout]

Then you are peaking from personal ignorance ..

Or for personal experience of not being emotionally attached to the military. I already answered above that the other sentence was unhappy.


You are missing a very important point about the US military. It is completely voluntary. Anyone who enlists chooses to be there.

Yet we have 18 year kids there, lots of em. I see your point though.

As such, Sabrina's evaluation is spot on. He is scum and is not a "veteran."

He might not be called veteran but scum, hmmm, that's emotional enough I guess. It's an opinion, hence what I said bias. I wouldn't call him a hero, but not everyone agree that he is scum, but oh well I guess you can go on and troll me up for having a different opinion.


Then you have no understanding of the policies and procedures in place in the military to deal with contientious objectors or people who believe they are in an unjust or illegal action. They have the policies, and actually getting OUT of the military with a general discharge isn't that hard. There is NO need to desert.

Right, no dispute here.


And korey rowe isn't a veteran. He is a dishonorably discharged deserter. A disgrace to the uniform, and a waste of human flesh.

Yet he is alive. I don't buy the military thing of sacrificing human flesh (family fathers and teens included)for "good". That often takes being religious and to me is plain bull. We will waste our time talking about it, it's too subjective for debating rationally on JREF. Endless trolling wars can follow from that.

[Sabrina]

My anger at someone referring to Korey as a "veteran" has little to do with my personal feelings on the subject. In point of fact, I have no issue with his views on why he deserted the military; I know of soldiers who got out due to similar issues. The difference is, they did it the right way, through the proper procedures; they didn't bug out and run away. They stood up for what they believed in. Korey did not. That he is now using his prior military service to set himself up as some sort of expert on the subject means he is a dishonest liar, and I refuse to stand by and see someone being lauded by granting them a title they did not earn. Call it emotional if you wish; I personally could care less how you are perceiving my stance on the issue, but my emotional investment or lack thereof is not the issue here. The issue is a person claiming a title they did not earn and presenting themselves as someone they are not. That is called lying and fraud, my friend, and all decent people should be willing to step up and call the jerk on it. If it'll make you feel better, here are the facts:

FACT#1: Korey has served in the military.
FACT#2: Korey deserted his unit when they were to be called up to go overseas.
FACT#3: Korey was subsequently arrested while on a routine traffic stop when the police officer who ran his ID came up with a warrant for his arrest for deserting.
FACT#4: Korey was sent back to the military long enough to receive a Bad Conduct Discharge for desertion.
FACT#5: Korey is now trying to set himself up as some sort of expert based solely off of his military experience (appeal to authority), but is neglecting to mention FACTS 2-4 above when doing so, and should therefore not be trusted when offering his opinions on any military-related issues.

Those are the facts as they stand. Korey did nothing to earn the title of "veteran" and everything to earn the title "deserter"; to pretend otherwise is fallacious in the extreme. Simple truth. Deal with it.

[fallout]

We're not "trolling" him because he deserted. We're calling him out for being a loudmouth, know-nothing idiot trying to trick others into accepting the ridiculous and dangerous idea that the United States engineered September 11th, and trying to profit thereby besides. That his followers respect him for being a "veteran," where in reality he is a deserter, only speaks further to the dishonest way in which he markets himself, and the insignificant brainpower of those who admire him.


Maybe he's too flamboyant about calling himself a vet, I agree with that. But I still think this criticism above it's being too harsh.

You're trying to change the subject. Won't work. We've seen it all before. Just admit your mistake and move on, we don't have any problem with that at all.

I admitted many mistakes here already, I also don't have problems with that. Though I'm not trying to change subjects here. I'm still trying to show how I see emotional bias on that comment and attack to Corey.

As a sidenote Mackey, you see that 911 truth is storming the media, especially online. Don't you really think it is time for you and other people who has knowledge and not only trolling skills to organize a simple event or media appearance to discuss some of the matters? There's a huge mass of people who never ever got in touch with any CT about 911 and is getting into it right now. I wish I could make it happen. It's time to call em for responsibility, see the last interview of the OT.

[fallout]

My anger at someone referring to Korey as a "veteran" has little to do with my personal feelings on the subject. In point of fact, I have no issue with his views on why he deserted the military; I know of soldiers who got out due to similar issues. The difference is, they did it the right way, through the proper procedures; they didn't bug out and run away. They stood up for what they believed in. Korey did not. That he is now using his prior military service to set himself up as some sort of expert on the subject means he is a dishonest liar, and I refuse to stand by and see someone being lauded by granting them a title they did not earn. Call it emotional if you wish; I personally could care less how you are perceiving my stance on the issue, but my emotional investment or lack thereof is not the issue here. The issue is a person claiming a title they did not earn and presenting themselves as someone they are not. That is called lying and fraud, my friend, and all decent people should be willing to step up and call the jerk on it. If it'll make you feel better, here are the facts:

FACT#1: Korey has served in the military.
FACT#2: Korey deserted his unit when they were to be called up to go overseas.
FACT#3: Korey was subsequently arrested while on a routine traffic stop when the police officer who ran his ID came up with a warrant for his arrest for deserting.
FACT#4: Korey was sent back to the military long enough to receive a Bad Conduct Discharge for desertion.
FACT#5: Korey is now trying to set himself up as some sort of expert based solely off of his military experience (appeal to authority), but is neglecting to mention FACTS 2-4 above when doing so, and should therefore not be trusted when offering his opinions on any military-related issues.

Those are the facts as they stand. Korey did nothing to earn the title of "veteran" and everything to earn the title "deserter"; to pretend otherwise is fallacious in the extreme. Simple truth. Deal with it.

Fair , can I send it to him? That is , if he has an email for contact in first place, then I post here what he answers, deal? He is not here to defend himself.

[carlitos]

No, posting on behalf of banned members of the forum is against the rules. I think that Rowe is a banned member here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[fallout]

Bolding mine. No, you have NO idea what the military requires from a soldier to call him a veteran. I infer from your post that you have never served; do not presume to speak to things you know absolutely nothing about, then.

Nonsense. One can never serve and still knows what it takes to be considered a veteran.

[fallout]

No, posting on behalf of banned members of the forum is against the rules. I think that Rowe is a banned member here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If it is a breach AND he's been banned, well sorry, not my intention.

[Dog Town]

No, posting on behalf of banned members of the forum is against the rules. I think that Rowe is a banned member here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't remember any of the "loose with facts" crew, having the balls to come here. Not openly anyway, but with all the socks around, who really knows. So I don't think he's been banned. I could have forgotten it, however.

[carlitos]

OK, fallout, why not try your email and just ask him if he is banned here. I'm sure we can take his word for it :)

[fallout]

Trying to find his email as we speak, could you help me ? :)

[carlitos]

No, I'm working and also trying to find the name of the ABC reporter. Surprisingly, Rowe and Avery thought they were talking to "the producer," and the only identification on a "truth" website mis-identifies him as Chris Wallace (who is on Fox).

[fallout]

I sent an e-mail via loose change "contact" session. Asking if I do questions directly trough there or if he has a personal mail for this.

[TruthersLie]

Ah, true. But a BCD takes a (shall we say) special individual!

I fully concur.

When someone tries and their body fails them and they get a general discharge, it is vastly different from a coward and moral midget who deserts their post, their unit and their country. VASTLY different.

[TruthersLie]

Sorry. Generally Discharged speaking. Perhaps those you know might have received GDs for appropriate reasons, mine was because I was an asshat. I was lucky to get it. And grateful.

And, no, in spite of my E-8 father's assistance and demands, I never got it upgraded. I didn't earn it. I don't deserve it. I won't lie about it.

RoadToad.

Of the three folks I know who got GD's, only one was an Asshat (and he was going through a messy divorce during the months which lead up to it).

One had a fractured pelvis (badly) and leg during OCS after finishing Basic and was given the option of rehabbing and retaking all of OCS, being discharged, or being an enlisted person who was on limited duty and my friend chose a GD.

One of them had some serious family problems and some mental health issues, and was given a GD.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, I'd love to hear his excuses for failing to live up to his word. As far as I'm concerned there is NO excuse for that, be you military or civilian. That would be why we have penalties for going back on your word, you know; i.e. criminal charges if you commit adultery (you promised to be faithful) or if you renege on the terms of a contract (your signature on such a document states you will carry out the terms of said contract). Note that the examples there are largely civilian in nature (although I'm sure the military has it's share of adulterers and persons who renege on contracts).

Let's hear him dance around the plain and simple fact that he DESERTED the military. As far as I'm concerned, he got his just punishment for reneging on his word, but I'm always up for being entertained.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Fair , can I send it to him? That is , if he has an email for contact in first place, then I post here what he answers, deal? He is not here to defend himself.

Wow... no one tell Fallout about the "Politics" and "Current Events" forums. Hundreds (if not thousands) of public figures get attacked there who never show up to defend themselves.

BTW, in my opinion, Korey Rowe is more than a deserter. He is a traitor. He knows than many of the things he and Dylan have been saying in their overblown youtube vids are flat out lies. And if enough people listened to his lies (not a huge danger at the moment, but not for Rowe and Averys lack of trying) then Al-Queada would have another clear shot at our exposed backsides. Korey Rowe is guilty of offering aid and comfort to the enemy.

He is the kind of traitor that in a democratic society would be deeply problematic to prosecute at best (they couldn't even go after "Hanoi Jane" Fonda for going to the enemy capital and having her picture taken at the controls of anti-aircraft guns used to kill American airmen) but he and Dylan (and Alex Jones and Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin et cetera, et cetera...) are as guilty as sin.

[Roadtoad]

Anyone consider contacting Lisa or Darat? They would be able to confirm if Korey Rowe was banned.

[WildCat]

Anyone consider contacting Lisa or Darat? They would be able to confirm if Korey Rowe was banned.
I don't think Korey or Dylan ever posted here, at least not in their real names.

[Myriad]

Interesting that Korey Rowe would show up at a "Treason in America" conference.

Was he one of the exhibits?

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Brainster]

According to this (http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6385), the interview with Korey and Dylan may appear as part of Nightline tonight:

From Betsy: "From Katie at ABC News, today, Monday, 3/8: "I just wanted to let you know it looks like the story will be airing tonight (barring breaking news, of course). You can look for it on ABC News Nightline, which airs at 11:35 on the east coast, but sometimes earlier in other parts of the country. So tell folks it’ll be on ABC after their late local news." SPREAD THE WORD!"

I assume the hook is going to be the Pentagon shooter story.

Korey was never a member here.

[ElMondoHummus]

Just out of curiosity: Does anyone have any hard data on whether Rowe discharged OTH, GD, or openly BCD? I saw references to him getting a BCD in this thread, but I'm wondering if that's confirmed or merely presumed. The wikipedia article on him only says he was "released".

Granted, given the fact that he freakin' deserted, I'm actually surprised that no one's talking about a Dishonerable Discharge for hm. But, some guys get lucky. Anyway, anyone happen to know for certain what sort of discharge he was given?

[Roadtoad]

I posted a link from Wikipedia in an earlier response. I'm sure there's more out there. I'll check it out.

[scissorhands]

No, I'm working and also trying to find the name of the ABC reporter. Surprisingly, Rowe and Avery thought they were talking to "the producer," and the only identification on a "truth" website mis-identifies him as Chris Wallace (who is on Fox).

My OP relied (perhaps naively) on truthers at least managing to get the basics of who is interviewing them correct.
I had best leave the US based posters here to identify the reporter in question.

[dudalb]

Exposing themselves as idiot researchers who can't figure out 911 after 8 years. They have not figured out after all these years they have no evidence.

As Investigators, Dylan and Korey make Inspector Closeau look like Sherlock Holmes .

[dudalb]

I can't think of two people who know more about treason than Korey "Yellowbelly" Rowe and Dylan Avery.

Benedict Arnold and Quisling, maybe.

Korey could have refused duty if he felt it was wrong, stood court martial, and make a principled stand for his beliefs. Instead he just cut and run. Big difference.

[scissorhands]

Well youve gone and done it now.
Look out, you "lowlife cheapshot shills".
You are about to be youtubed.

jmh423 (4 hours ago)

The popular JREF shill forum has a lively thread regarding this interview right now. The cadre of lowlife cheapsot shills there are ganging up, calling Mr Rowe a deserter, lying and saying he was never overseas, he is NOT a veteran etc. I urge Mr Rowe and any and all supporters of Rowe to register onto jref, log in, and post info to dispel these rotten ********.

Google:"JREF Forum-ABC Interview Dylan Avery"...

[carlitos]

Oh great. I really don't miss jmh423 very much. I sent the info on Rowe and the charitable giving to nightline already. No word back.

[Dog Town]

lying and saying he was never overseas

Really? I must have missed this part.
*reads back*

[carlitos]

I asked Sabrina about this here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5696033&postcount=58) and got no answer...

[scissorhands]

From what I remember of this situation when it first came up, Rowe was actually posted for a tour of Iraq, and deserted on his return.

[Dog Town]

I asked Sabrina about this here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5696033&postcount=58) and got no answer...

He did bail before returning. It doesn't say he never went. Just that time.

ETA: Sorry, didn't read your linky. I believe she is wrong.
ETA2: She seems to note correction.

[Dog Town]

From what I remember of this situation when it first came up, Rowe was actually posted for a tour of Iraq, and deserted on his return.

I believe his unit was being called back up, then he quit.

[Roadtoad]

I asked Sabrina about this here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5696033&postcount=58) and got no answer...

Perhaps because I answered it, and she concurred with the response.

[carlitos]

Ah. Reading on the mobile, "Ahem" wasn't much of a clarification unless you click the link. Thanks. :)

The main point being that there aren't a bunch of posters here lying about Mr. Rowe's service, our ex-member's histrionics notwithstanding.

[Roadtoad]

According to Brainster, Rowe wasn't a member.

[JimBenArm]

According to Brainster, Rowe wasn't a member.

No, but he is a tool.

[carlitos]

With the 9/11 truth movement growing every day, why don't Rowe and Avery post here to spread more truth I wonder?

[Dog Town]

According to Brainster, Rowe wasn't a member.

I think carlitos meant jmh423. Brainster is right.

[Travis]

This thread started off like a bad flashback.

Very surreal.

[Unsecured Coins]

I recall hearing Rowe talk about how he got out on his own accord and that his arrest was nothing more than a mild paperwork snafu...

and then he posted his 214.

Yeah, what he's saying and what's on his paperwork are 2 different stories.

[carlitos]

I think carlitos meant jmh423. Brainster is right.

I did, thanks.

[Sabrina]

I welcome the liars; let 'em all come. Idiots need to be schooled.

[Profanz]

From what I can tell what happened to Rowe was a stop-loss situation. He still served six months in Afghanistan and one year in Kuwait and Iraq.

Everyone here putting him down please list where and when you served. And why you are not presently fighting the War on Terror that most of you seem to be so concerned with.

[Thunder]

And why you are not presently fighting the War on Terror that most of you seem to be so concerned with.

I was against the invasion of Iraq.

but, I do consider my work against 9-11 Truth to be part of the War on Terror.

:)

[Profanz]

I was against the invasion of Iraq.

but, I do consider my work against 9-11 Truth to be part of the War on Terror.

:)

Well you are a brave soul Parky. Keep up the good work. I'm sure that all the troops overseas are comforted by the thought of you fighting the dangerous war at home.

[Dog Town]

Everyone here putting him down please list where and when you served.

Pay attention! What is he's being "put down" for?

[Profanz]

Pay attention! What is he's being "put down" for?

You pay attention. What have you done?

[Dog Town]

You pay attention. What have you done?

You still don't get it? No surprise!

[tsig]

From what I can tell what happened to Rowe was a stop-loss situation. He still served six months in Afghanistan and one year in Kuwait and Iraq.

Everyone here putting him down please list where and when you served. And why you are not presently fighting the War on Terror that most of you seem to be so concerned with.

Nice debate tactic there get everyone reciting their credentials to take the heat off your man.

There was another here who was good at that you should be proud to hitch up your socks and follow him.

[Roadtoad]

From what I can tell what happened to Rowe was a stop-loss situation. He still served six months in Afghanistan and one year in Kuwait and Iraq.

Everyone here putting him down please list where and when you served. And why you are not presently fighting the War on Terror that most of you seem to be so concerned with.

I served three years in Germany, from 1980-83.

I'm turning 50 on April 9, and am a Type II diabetic, so I'm ineligible. That doesn't prevent me, however, from informing myself on load security and being aware of safety while on the road.

We aren't putting him down for having served in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are angered by the suggestion that he is an honorably discharged veteran, which he is not. We are angered by the claim that what he's putting out is backed by facts, which it is not. We are angered by the claim that someone within the United States government stood to gain by the loss of life on 9/11, which they did not. We are angered by the claim that there is any truth behind the Truth Movement, which there is not.

We are insulted by the notion that anyone who disagrees with them is a fool, which we are not. We are insulted by the idea that we are dupes, which we are not. We are insulted by the idea that the laws of physics can and should be ignored for the political or personal gain of a handful of people, which we cannot. We are insulted by the constant recitation of falsehoods, all of which have been proven false time and again by various means, all in the name of "truth," which it is not.

We object to the idea of someone claiming to be that which he is not. We object to the idea of deception for any reason, and particularly any manner of self deception, regardless of the motive. We object to this kind of deflection of rightful and correct criticism of Mr. Rowe's behavior in the past, and in the present, particularly when it slanders the genuine heroism and courage of men and women who have served the nation, both past and present. We object to the idea of a monolithic opposition to the Loose Change nonsense, particularly since many of us who oppose this come from a broad base, including those who support the war and who oppose it. We object the very idea that our patriotism, regardless of our view of the war, is something to be manipulated, and that our citizenship means so little that it can be demeaned by this kind of mis- and disinformation.

We do not accept the claims made by Mr. Rowe and his cohorts because the facts do not support them. That Mr. Rowe continues to make these claims, and that he does so at venues such as the "Treason in America Conference," demonstrates that he is aware his actions border on providing aid and comfort to the enemy, (if they aren't directly over the line), and that he has little concern regarding the ethics of his actions.

Mr. Rowe had options available to him if he objected so strongly to the war. That evidence is lacking that he exercised those options suggests either he chooses to withhold that information, or he never exercised the options in the first place. When he provides information that he attempted to exercise his legal and moral options, my opinion could change. That he does not make the attempt demonstrates I am correct in considering him less than a soldier, and certainly not much of a man.

And while my service was nothing that I would be proud of, I am at least honest about the character of my service, where Mr. Rowe is not. I have owned up to what I did, and took the full brunt of the punishment for my behavior. From what I've been reading regarding Mr. Rowe, someone interceded for him and helped him avoid a General Court Martial, which he richly deserved.

I am not proud of the mistakes I have made in my life, and I have apologized to all for my disgrace. I have yet to see Mr. Rowe do anything even remotely like that. When he does, do let us know. It would seem he has much to apologize for.

[Roadtoad]

Well you are a brave soul Parky. Keep up the good work. I'm sure that all the troops overseas are comforted by the thought of you fighting the dangerous war at home.

As a matter of fact, my eldest son, who was a Ranger, would be very comforted by the fact that Parky has followed his conscience, and has actually served in the capacity that he has. I am grateful for his service as well, and am proud to call him a friend.

No, he isn't taking bullets. But he's sure taking a great deal for his stance on the war.

[JimBenArm]

From what I can tell what happened to Rowe was a stop-loss situation. He still served six months in Afghanistan and one year in Kuwait and Iraq.

Everyone here putting him down please list where and when you served. And why you are not presently fighting the War on Terror that most of you seem to be so concerned with.

From 1973 to 1987.
Boot Camp, Orlando, FL
Basic Electricity & Electronics, San Diego
Interior Communications Electrician Class "A" School, San Diego
Naval Nuclear Power School, Bainbridge, MD
Nuclear Prototype Training, Balston Spa, NY
USS Pollack (SSN-603), San Diego
USS Guardfish (SSN-612), San Diego
Instructor, Interior Communications Class "A" School, San Diego
USS George Washington (SSBN-598), Groton, CT, then Bremerton, WA
USS McKee (AS-41), San Diego

As I am now 55 years old, and have passed the age that I can serve, and having fulfilled my entire military obligation, your question is absurd in the extreme.

Any other stupid questions I can answer for you, bright boy?

[Thunder]

Well you are a brave soul Parky. Keep up the good work. I'm sure that all the troops overseas are comforted by the thought of you fighting the dangerous war at home.

I didn't realize it makes one a hypocrite if they don't serve in every way they support. I also didn't serve in WW2....wanna attack me for that too?

[Profanz]

From 1973 to 1987.
Boot Camp, Orlando, FL
Basic Electricity & Electronics, San Diego
Interior Communications Electrician Class "A" School, San Diego
Naval Nuclear Power School, Bainbridge, MD
Nuclear Prototype Training, Balston Spa, NY
USS Pollack (SSN-603), San Diego
USS Guardfish (SSN-612), San Diego
Instructor, Interior Communications Class "A" School, San Diego
USS George Washington (SSBN-598), Groton, CT, then Bremerton, WA
USS McKee (AS-41), San Diego

As I am now 55 years old, and have passed the age that I can serve, and having fulfilled my entire military obligation, your question is absurd in the extreme.

Any other stupid questions I can answer for you, bright boy?


Yeah. No combat?

[Roadtoad]

Yeah. No combat?

Evasion noted.

[BigAl]

From what I can tell what happened to Rowe was a stop-loss situation. He still served six months in Afghanistan and one year in Kuwait and Iraq.

Everyone here putting him down please list where and when you served. And why you are not presently fighting the War on Terror that most of you seem to be so concerned with.

I was called up in the draft at the height of the Vietnam war. I showed up.

I was given a medical deferment because of my eyesight.

[beachnut]

From what I can tell what happened to Rowe was a stop-loss situation. He still served six months in Afghanistan and one year in Kuwait and Iraq.

Everyone here putting him down please list where and when you served. And why you are not presently fighting the War on Terror that most of you seem to be so concerned with.

His ideas on 911 are bogus; your deficiency in evidence will not help Rowe.

I served 28 years in the USAF (my draft number was 301, I wanted to fly) and was in Desert Storm watching patriots take out SCUDs, and dragging F-117s to the border so they could go downtown.

Rowe is a paranoid conspiracy theorist and your lackadaisical support for him has failed to shed light on why he is so thick on 911 issues.

[Profanz]

I didn't realize it makes one a hypocrite if they don't serve in every way they support. I also didn't serve in WW2....wanna attack me for that too?

No. Just don't put someone down who did serve. During a war. Because then you would be a chicken hawk hypocrite.

I have no problem with anyone who served in a war based on lies and then didn't like being in a stop loss situation. When they were put in that situation by chick hawks who didn't serve when their own number was called. And all that the chicken hawks were required to pull was one tour. They couldn't even hack that though.

So good for Corey Rowe.

[JimBenArm]

Yeah. No combat?

I did operations that I'm not at liberty to tell you about.

Of course, being familiar with submarine operations intimately like you undoubtedly are, you instantly know why that is. Right? Oh, sorry, not right.

Now, I know that you're going to make some stupid comment about how my not being in a shooting war makes my service somehow less. But the operations I was involved with had way more "pucker factor" than anything you have ever been involved in, Mr. Keyboard Warrior.

No, I can't prove it to you. After all, I took an oath. A concept you and your sorry friends are completely unaware of.

But go read "Blind Man's Bluff", then get back to me. You might actually get a clue. Though I doubt it.

[dudalb]

And I see why none of Korry's supporters have answered my question of why he did not refuse to go and actully make a stand on his principles rather then cutting and running.

[Roadtoad]

No. Just don't put someone down who did serve. During a war. Because then you would be a chicken hawk hypocrite.

I have no problem with anyone who served in a war based on lies and then didn't like being in a stop loss situation. When they were put in that situation by chick hawks who didn't serve when their own number was called. And all that the chicken hawks were required to pull was one tour. They couldn't even hack that though.

So good for Corey Rowe.

No. Not good for Corey Rowe.

One of my oldest son's friends was supposed to have been out of the military, but because of stop-loss, he's now dead.

Good men and women went back to the Middle East, and some came back in body bags. They did so out of dedication to their nation, to their friends, and to what they believed. As I said before, Corey Rowe has provided no evidence that he made any effort to use channels available to him to avoid a return to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Just a suggestion: I would not use the term "chicken-hawk," as it has other meanings, none of them good. And on another point: Not everyone who serves winds up taking bullets. You're being dishonest with us, and with yourself.

And if you want my opinion regarding that kind of dishonesty, re-read my earlier post.

[Profanz]

28 years in the USAF

Were you forced to do more that you initially signed up for or were required? Were you drafted for 28 years?

Maybe if some of the arm chair warriors around here did sign up to fight these Islamic Extremist they're always screaming about then a stop loss program would never have been needed.

You know something guys? The war is still going on. There is still time if you really believe in it.

[Roadtoad]

I did operations that I'm not at liberty to tell you about.

Of course, being familiar with submarine operations intimately like you undoubtedly are, you instantly know why that is. Right? Oh, sorry, not right.

Now, I know that you're going to make some stupid comment about how my not being in a shooting war makes my service somehow less. But the operations I was involved with had way more "pucker factor" than anything you have ever been involved in, Mr. Keyboard Warrior.

No, I can't prove it to you. After all, I took an oath. A concept you and your sorry friends are completely unaware of.

But go read "Blind Man's Bluff", then get back to me. You might actually get a clue. Though I doubt it.

He won't. Sorry, dude, but you're not dealing with an honest man.

[JimBenArm]

He won't. Sorry, dude, but you're not dealing with an honest man.

I know. But the smack-down is sure fun.

[Roadtoad]

Were you forced to do more that you initially signed up for or were required? Were you drafted for 28 years?

Maybe if some of the arm chair warriors around here did sign up to fight these Islamic Extremist they're always screaming about then a stop loss program would never have been needed.

You know something guys? The war is still going on. There is still time if you really believe in it.

And there are still ways to fight. I'm involved, and in one way or another, I will continue to be involved until it's over. No, not as a member of the military. But I will be serving.

And if you can't figure out how, go talk to my brethren trying to get a decent night's sleep in your local truck stop.

And while you're at it, try being honest with the rest of us, instead of this childish ad hom crap.

[beachnut]

Were you forced to do more that you initially signed up for or were required? Were you drafted for 28 years?

Maybe if some of the arm chair warriors around here did sign up to fight these Islamic Extremist they're always screaming about then a stop loss program would never have been needed.

You know something guys? The war is still going on. There is still time if you really believe in it.
My draft number was 301. 301. As in 301. Look up Vietnam, draft, and learn.

Good luck gaining knowledge, you have zero on 911, and looks like it extends to other topics you are untested in but have no clue.

The people on stop loss did sign up, and they were extended; they should not sign up if they don't want to be extended. Simple logic, don't join the military, they can send you to war and people will shoot at you.

[Roadtoad]

I know. But the smack-down is sure fun.

Ah, man. You squids just won't ever change... :D:D:D

[Profanz]

and to what they believed.

The problem is what they believed was based on lies. Lies by some people who got up to 5 deferments during Vietnam. When some of them realized this it was too late. They were locked in.

During Vietnam people joined the National Guard to get out of combat. No such luck this time around though huh?

Good for Corey Rowe for still being alive.

How do you think he got away with it? Was it because of the bad publicity it would have brought the stop loss program?

[Roadtoad]

My draft number was 301. 301. As in 301. Look up Vietnam, draft, and learn.

Good luck gaining knowledge, you have zero on 911, and looks like it extends to other topics you are untested in but have no clue.

I looked it up.

Aw, Dude... :(

[JamesB]

From what I can tell what happened to Rowe was a stop-loss situation. He still served six months in Afghanistan and one year in Kuwait and Iraq.

Everyone here putting him down please list where and when you served. And why you are not presently fighting the War on Terror that most of you seem to be so concerned with.

Almost 22 years in the Army Guard. Plan on retiring soon. I am a veteran of OJF and OEF, where I was in theater 3 months before PFC Rowe and the 101st showed up.

[Mr. Skinny]

My draft number was 301. 301. As in 301. Look up Vietnam, draft, and learn.

Good luck gaining knowledge, you have zero on 911, and looks like it extends to other topics you are untested in but have no clue.

The people on stop loss did sign up, and they were extended; they should not sign up if they don't want to be extended. Simple logic, don't join the military, they can send you to war and people will shoot at you.
My draft number was 226 and I never got called.

As it turned out, I ended up working for the DoD (for about 27 years now), helping the warfighter. Never thought of myself as a guy behind the trigger in the military, but I'm proud to give those folks a better gun to shoot, aircraft to fly, or ejection seat to survive in.

[Profanz]

Almost 22 years in the Army Guard. Plan on retiring soon. I am a veteran of OJF and OEF, where I was in theater 3 months before PFC Rowe and the 101st showed up.

So was that after it was changed from OIL?

[Roadtoad]

So was that after it was changed from OIL?

Enough. You are crossing lines you do not want to cross.

[Profanz]

Well thank you all for your service.

Now did Corey serve or did he not? And were any of you kept in the military because of stop loss?

[Roadtoad]

Well thank you for all of your service.

Now did Corey serve or did he not? And were any of you kept in the military because of stop loss?

He negated his service by his desertion. Period.

You sarcastic crack about the honorable service of others points to another evasion. And, I should note, your service has not been noted, either.

Glass houses, Dude.

[JamesB]

So was that after it was changed from OIL?

Huh? The original name of OEF was actually Operation Infinite Justice, which would be OIJ as an acronym. It was changed when they realized it could be interpreted to have religious connotations.

You aren't one of those geniuses who believes we invaded Afghanistan so India could have a natural gas pipeline sometime by the middle of the 21st century, are you?

[Profanz]

Enough. You are crossing lines you do not want to cross.

It's not a line. It's a fact.

Operation Iraqi Liberation. Those Chicken Hawks were funny weren't they?

[JimBenArm]

Well thank you all for your service.

Now did Corey serve or did he not? And were any of you kept in the military because of stop loss?

Did he honor his entire military commitment?

That's the only relevant question.

[Roadtoad]

It's not a line. It's a fact.

Operation Iraqi Liberation. Those Chicken Hawks were funny weren't they?

Keep it up. We'll be reading about you in the Public Notices.

And that, my friend, is far more factual than your silly attacks, particularly those based on some bonehead's poor choice of words.

[ElMondoHummus]

But the operations I was involved with had way more "pucker factor" than anything you have ever been involved in, Mr. Keyboard Warrior.


We don't wanna hear your sea stories about shore leave, Jim. :p

[Profanz]

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030324-4.html

MR. FLEISCHER: Good afternoon. Let me give you a report on the President's day. The President this morning has spoken with three foreign leaders. He began with Prime Minister Blair, where the two discussed the ongoing aspects of Operation Iraqi liberation.

[Roadtoad]

Did he honor his entire military commitment?

That's the only relevant question.

Nope. That's the point.

[beachnut]

Yeah. No combat?
Have you been on a nuke attack submarine? That is service; what did you do?

[Roadtoad]

How about it, Profanz? Your military record, Sir?

[JimBenArm]

We don't wanna hear your sea stories about shore leave, Jim. :p

I have photos! Wanna see?

[Profanz]

Did he honor his entire military commitment?

That's the only relevant question.

If he did what he signed up for yes. Stop loss is bull. Good for him.

[Roadtoad]

In other words, you've never served at all. If you had, you'd know that Stop-Loss is a possibility for anyone who has ever signed up. Once you've signed the papers, you belong to the military for however long they need you.

If there's bull being spread, it's not coming from folks like JimBen or beachnut. Better check a mirror, kid.

[JimBenArm]

If he did what he signed up for yes. Stop loss is bull. Good for him.

If it wasn't part of what he signed up for, they couldn't have done it. If he didn't know they could do it, too bad, so sad, dem's the berries, that's the breaks.

Desertion in time of war can be punished by firing squad. He should consider himself lucky.

Look it up.

[Garb]

If he did what he signed up for yes. Stop loss is bull. Good for him.

Pretty sure he signed up knowing the possibility of stop-loss was there.

[ElMondoHummus]

And what's this ridiculously inane blather?


Everyone here putting him down please list where and when you served. And why you are not presently fighting the War on Terror that most of you seem to be so concerned with.

I served nowhere and at no time. None of that precludes me from commenting on how it's wrong for Rowe to desert. Nor does it preclude me from criticizing thoes who lionize him merely for staking his reputation on a demonstrably wrong claim about history.

Improve your discourse. You argue like a petulant teenager. Until you improve your rhetoric, welcome to ignore.

[Dog Town]

If he did what he signed up for yes.

So that's a NO. Good for you, you finally get it!

[beachnut]

Well thank you all for your service.

Now did Corey serve or did he not? And were any of you kept in the military because of stop loss?
What is a military member's agreement include? How many total years?

What do you know of stop loss past a fictional movie?

About what you know on 911.

[Roadtoad]

Re-read this post, then get back to us. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5698114&postcount=124)

[Profanz]

How about it, Profanz? Your military record, Sir?

Never served. If I was old enough for Vietnam I would have deserted. The Gulf war was bull. And these preemptive wars now we all know are based on lies. If I was alive for WWII I would gladly have signed up and died if need be.

In other words I don't fight for fat cats who would never do the same. And I feel sorry for naive people who do and die just so the fat cat can fill his pockets with more money than he'll ever live long enough to spend. They are nothing but pigs. Disgusting pigs.

[ElMondoHummus]

I have photos! Wanna see?

What is it about you sending me photographs all the time? Didn't you do enough damage to my psyche with the last bunch (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4575999#post4575999)?? :mad:

[Roadtoad]

Never served. If I was old enough for Vietnam I would have deserted. The Gulf war was bull. And these preemptive wars now we all know are based on lies. If I was alive for WWII I would gladly have signed up and died if need be.

In other words I don't fight for fat cats who would never do the same. And I feel sorry for naive people who do and die just so the fat cat can fill his pockets with more money than he'll ever live long enough to spend. They are nothing but pigs. Disgusting pigs.

Then, by your own definition, you have no right to comment.

If you can't be civil, at least be amusing.

Welcome to ignore.

[JimBenArm]

What is it about you sending me photographs all the time? Didn't you do enough damage to my psyche with the last bunch (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4575999#post4575999)?? :mad:

You asked me for ten copies.

[Roadtoad]

You asked me for ten copies.

Ew.

[Profanz]

In other words, you've never served at all. If you had, you'd know that Stop-Loss is a possibility for anyone who has ever signed up. Once you've signed the papers, you belong to the military for however long they need you.

If there's bull being spread, it's not coming from folks like JimBen or beachnut. Better check a mirror, kid.

I don't care, It's unfair period. And it's a war we all now know was based on lies. He owes no one anything. Good for him that he got out. Good for anyone who deserted Vietnam for that matter.

BTW. I didn't bring up his service. But since someone did? This is my opinion.

[carlitos]

You guys realize that you are debating with the ultimate troll, yes? Homeland Insurgency / Algebra34 / etc. It's a pointless activity.

[Roadtoad]

You guys realize that you are debating with the ultimate troll, yes? Homeland Insurgency / Algebra34 / etc. It's a pointless activity.

It's why I have him on ignore. I'm sure others are following suit, or I'm following theirs. Or... Something.

(Damn you, Carlitos. Now I'm cunfoozed.)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You guys realize that you are debating with the ultimate troll, yes? Homeland Insurgency / Algebra34 / etc. It's a pointless activity.

"Debate" is such a specific word.

I believe "counter-trolling" is more descriptive and accurate.

[Roadtoad]

"Debate" is such a specific word.

I believe "counter-trolling" is more descriptive and accurate.

I prefer Napalm.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I prefer Napalm.

Were I using an A-10 instead of a PC... ;)

[Roadtoad]

:D

[ElMondoHummus]

You asked me for ten copies.

Ew.

Ew.

Agreed. Wait until you actually see samples of those UNSOLICITED1 (:mad:) images.


1Asked... my http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1238649872cf356a46.png I did!

[Hokulele]

There's your problem, ElMondo. Jim sees "my ass" not as a comment, but as a challenge.

[ElMondoHummus]

There's your problem, ElMondo. Jim sees "my ass" not as a comment, but as a challenge.

Oh... Gawd! (*Groans*). http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n94/elmondohummus/facepalm_smiley295.gif

[R.Mackey]

As a sidenote Mackey, you see that 911 truth is storming the media, especially online.

No, I do not see that "9/11 Truth" is storming the media. The only mention of it I've seen in weeks is in reference to that poor crazy guy who shot at police officers outside the Pentagon, as a way to show just how crazy he was, and the endorsement from Iranian government mouthpiece Ahmedinejad, trying no doubt to blame it on the "Zionist controlled" government of his Great Satan.

If this is your idea of a media storm, I can only assume you are not a publicist.

Don't you really think it is time for you and other people who has knowledge and not only trolling skills to organize a simple event or media appearance to discuss some of the matters?

Oh yeah, I'll get right on that. It'll have to wait until after my press conference announcing that the Moon Landings were not faked, the tour in support of my new book "The Japanese Really Did Surprise Us at Pearl Harbor, You Morons," and my six-part miniseries in Spring called Generalissimo Francisco Franco: Still Dead.

There's a huge mass of people who never ever got in touch with any CT about 911 and is getting into it right now. I wish I could make it happen. It's time to call em for responsibility, see the last interview of the OT.

There is no such mass of people, and the Truth Movement is so marginalized and fractured, you can't even name an opponent.

[Sam.I.Am]

Halfway night Divisional Dolly pics? No thanks.

[beachnut]

Never served. If I was old enough for Vietnam I would have deserted. The Gulf war was bull. And these preemptive wars now we all know are based on lies. If I was alive for WWII I would gladly have signed up and died if need be.

In other words I don't fight for fat cats who would never do the same. And I feel sorry for naive people who do and die just so the fat cat can fill his pockets with more money than he'll ever live long enough to spend. They are nothing but pigs. Disgusting pigs.
Big talk; about like your support of 911, all talk.

In tough times like Vietnam the troops need leaders not followers like you to keep them safe, your lack of knowledge would be bad news for those who would serve with you. I will say it again, the military needs good people in tough times to protect the troops from idiots like those in 911 truth who join up and have idiotic ideas applied to combat.

The right soldier at the right time with the right stuff can save lives and stop idiotic behavior.

You would desert, exactly what you do with 911, desert reason and logic and go for the big lies with poor support.

[Sabrina]

From what I can tell what happened to Rowe was a stop-loss situation. He still served six months in Afghanistan and one year in Kuwait and Iraq.

Everyone here putting him down please list where and when you served. And why you are not presently fighting the War on Terror that most of you seem to be so concerned with.

Eight years so far, US Army, partially on active duty and partially in the reserves (four years each at the moment; my contract was actually up 2/3/2010; I have not resigned my commission though and do not currently intend to). I served my active duty tour with the 31st Air Defense Artillery Brigade out of Fort Bliss, Texas; deployed for three months to Bahrain in early 2003 to provide ADA coverage for the island. During that time, I injured my back and have since been placed under a medical flag, pending a medical evaluation board, which prevents me from deploying again (I am considered nondeployable so long as the flag is in place). I am currently serving in a reserve unit near to my home, but I will not name the location because I have no wish to have random truthers calling up my unit and accusing me of lying; they have enough to deal with.

Due to the physical limitations I am under because of the back injury, it is likely that I will be made permanently nondeployable to combat zones, because I am unable to wear the necessary protective gear without suffering severe pain. But I am not trying to get out; do you know why? Because I believe in the oath I took. I raised my right hand and swore to fight for this country, and I will fight to stay in for as long as I can so that I may contribute in whatever way I can. Luckily, my current MOS is a critical MOS and one that can be literally performed anywhere we have a military presence, so there will be nothing to prevent me from deploying in the future to locations other than combat zones.

As you can see, I have even more of a reason to get out at the moment than Korey did; I risk further injury the longer I stay in, and my back will never be the same as it was when I was 23 again. I stay in because I gave my word, and I hold my word as my bond. Korey did not. He is a liar and a scum-of-the-earth deserter, and I stand by that opinion.

[Sabrina]

I served three years in Germany, from 1980-83.

I'm turning 50 on April 9, and am a Type II diabetic, so I'm ineligible. That doesn't prevent me, however, from informing myself on load security and being aware of safety while on the road.

We aren't putting him down for having served in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are angered by the suggestion that he is an honorably discharged veteran, which he is not. We are angered by the claim that what he's putting out is backed by facts, which it is not. We are angered by the claim that someone within the United States government stood to gain by the loss of life on 9/11, which they did not. We are angered by the claim that there is any truth behind the Truth Movement, which there is not.

We are insulted by the notion that anyone who disagrees with them is a fool, which we are not. We are insulted by the idea that we are dupes, which we are not. We are insulted by the idea that the laws of physics can and should be ignored for the political or personal gain of a handful of people, which we cannot. We are insulted by the constant recitation of falsehoods, all of which have been proven false time and again by various means, all in the name of "truth," which it is not.

We object to the idea of someone claiming to be that which he is not. We object to the idea of deception for any reason, and particularly any manner of self deception, regardless of the motive. We object to this kind of deflection of rightful and correct criticism of Mr. Rowe's behavior in the past, and in the present, particularly when it slanders the genuine heroism and courage of men and women who have served the nation, both past and present. We object to the idea of a monolithic opposition to the Loose Change nonsense, particularly since many of us who oppose this come from a broad base, including those who support the war and who oppose it. We object the very idea that our patriotism, regardless of our view of the war, is something to be manipulated, and that our citizenship means so little that it can be demeaned by this kind of mis- and disinformation.

We do not accept the claims made by Mr. Rowe and his cohorts because the facts do not support them. That Mr. Rowe continues to make these claims, and that he does so at venues such as the "Treason in America Conference," demonstrates that he is aware his actions border on providing aid and comfort to the enemy, (if they aren't directly over the line), and that he has little concern regarding the ethics of his actions.

Mr. Rowe had options available to him if he objected so strongly to the war. That evidence is lacking that he exercised those options suggests either he chooses to withhold that information, or he never exercised the options in the first place. When he provides information that he attempted to exercise his legal and moral options, my opinion could change. That he does not make the attempt demonstrates I am correct in considering him less than a soldier, and certainly not much of a man.

And while my service was nothing that I would be proud of, I am at least honest about the character of my service, where Mr. Rowe is not. I have owned up to what I did, and took the full brunt of the punishment for my behavior. From what I've been reading regarding Mr. Rowe, someone interceded for him and helped him avoid a General Court Martial, which he richly deserved.

I am not proud of the mistakes I have made in my life, and I have apologized to all for my disgrace. I have yet to see Mr. Rowe do anything even remotely like that. When he does, do let us know. It would seem he has much to apologize for.

Nominated. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5698534#post5698534)

:bigclap

[Spindrift]

I don't care, It's unfair period. And it's a war we all now know was based on lies. He owes no one anything. Good for him that he got out. Good for anyone who deserted Vietnam for that matter.

BTW. I didn't bring up his service. But since someone did? This is my opinion.

Rowe has brought up his service and has lied about it. The people here who know about such matters simply make sure that his lies are exposed.

It not unfair to people who volunteer for the military. We don't have draftees, everyone volunteers. He was a deserter and no disembling on your part is going to alter that reality. Under your premise that Rowe served and therefore his desertion doesn't count again him, Benedict Arnold should be forgiven for being a traitor because he was a good soldier prior to trying to sell out the country.

BTW: No, I didn't serve but I come from a somewhat military family. My dad was career Army and served in WWII and Korea. I was born on an Army base. My uncle was career Air Force, my cousin is a West Point grad and just retired as a Lt. Col and my brother-in-law is an E-8 in the National Guard.

[AJM8125]

I remember 2004 when I, someone who is vehemently opposed to the war in Iraq, spoke up out of concern for our men and women to either get them the tools to do the job or get them the hell out.

A certain group tried to shout me down, saying that they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into and if they get killed because they listened to Cheney & Bush, then they had it coming.

Justice is slow, but so glad to see the hypocrisy when it's one of theirs. Something I shall savor for quite some time, this.

[Audible Click]

You guys realize that you are debating with the ultimate troll, yes? Homeland Insurgency / Algebra34 / etc. It's a pointless activity.

Profanz is a lemming; that is sort of like a troll but not as smart.

[GreNME]

If he did what he signed up for yes. Stop loss is bull. Good for him.

You seem to not get it: stop-loss is part of what you agree as a conditional possibility when you sign those papers. He got exactly what he signed up for and failed to live up to his side of the agreement. There is no trick wording you can come up with that refutes this, no matter how hard you try.

Never served. If I was old enough for Vietnam I would have deserted. The Gulf war was bull. And these preemptive wars now we all know are based on lies. If I was alive for WWII I would gladly have signed up and died if need be.

In other words I don't fight for fat cats who would never do the same. And I feel sorry for naive people who do and die just so the fat cat can fill his pockets with more money than he'll ever live long enough to spend. They are nothing but pigs. Disgusting pigs.

Do you even realize that the reasoning you're giving for not serving is practically the same "I would, but..." hemming and hawing that those "fat cats who would never do the same" tend to use for not serving? Is that weak attempt at self-justification the same for why you never served in the years between all those wars you say you hate?

I never served in the military, but I've still been closer to backing up my respect for them than you have-- I've been to MEPS, had to postpone enlistment for personal reasons, and then wound up with an injury that precluded me for years. I'd have enlisted after 9/11 as well (despite the metal plates from the injury), but got into an auto accident that took me out of the running for a few years again. In the meantime I've supported family members who have not only served but been deployed over and over and over, and have even sent packages to troops I didn't know because they deserved some support.

What have you done? I couldn't give a rat's patootie about your political support for the wars, but the guys who get sent over there are there because they're doing a job and every one of their fellow soldiers relies on them to be there. They deserve your support regardless of your politics, because they're holding themselves to a standard that's above and beyond getting up in the morning for a commute somewhere so you get a paycheck. What Korey Rowe did by deserting wasn't simply some individual personal statement no matter how you or he tries to spin it-- he outright deserted the members of his troop who counted on his presence when doing their job, many of whom probably weren't thrilled about repeat deployments either. When people here talk about how wrong such an action is, they're talking about the act of screwing over fellow soldiers whose politics don't matter when you're supposed to count on each other, and who probably didn't want to go back overseas any more than he did. It's an act of cowardice and lack of principles because Korey Rowe didn't tell his commanding officers that he refused to go, he simply ran away by not reporting and standing up for his principles.

I know people who refused to go to Vietnam. They stood before military authorities and said they will not go. I respect those individuals for their principles just as much as I respect those whom I know who have reported for duty and followed through. Some of those who refused to report faced ridiculous consequences as a result of their principles, and yet they stuck to their principles and faced those consequences. Korey Rowe did not do that-- instead, he's claiming a principled defense for his desertion when he didn't have the courage to stand up for those principles when it counted. That's no more respectable than lazy chickenhawks who avoided war through deferments and light duty when their conviction was put to the test. That you seem perfectly willing to damn those chickenhawks for not acting on principle while praising Korey Rowe for the same failure to act on principles only highlights the fact that you are indeed not defending Rowe because of his principles, but are instead engaging in typical and unimaginative confirmation bias of your own.

That is why your posts defending Rowe have no merit, and why Korey Rowe's claims of being a veteran despite his failure to live up to his own claimed principles is a sham.

[Army of One]

What is a military member's agreement include? How many total years?8 years. And when you're signing the papers to enlist, the good folks at the MEPS center make it very clear that, should the government need you, they can keep you/call you back at any time during those 8 years.

Sure, it sucks when it actually happens, and it's hugely unpopular among service members, but no one can claim that they weren't told of the possibility. I was actually stop-lossed when I was already deployed in Iraq (had my stay extended by a few months). Then I was also called back to active duty for another tour in Iraq, 3 years after I ETS'ed (unfortunately I didn't medically qualify).

One positive thing to come out of the whole Stop-Loss situation is that I recently received a nice bonus check from the Army, as a retroactive compensation for the "inconvenience" of the Stop-Loss. :D

Of course Korey missed out on that perk, since he was a selfish dirtbag (the term "Blue Falcon" seems appropriate for him). I wonder if Korey realizes that by deserting and not fulfilling his obligation, some other guy had to be put in harms way to fill his position. But screw that guy, as long as Korey isn't inconvenienced, right Profanz?

[Sam.I.Am]

Boot Camp: Great Lakes Nov 82 - Jan 83
Basic Enlisted Submarine School Jan 83 - Mar 83
SSBN 654 Mar 83 - Nov 86
SSN 571 Nov 86 - May 89
SSBN 631 May 89 - Apr 91
Rank at EOAS TM1(SS) (E6)
Strategic deterrence patrols - 8 (4 on each boat)
1 refueling overhaul (Newport News VA)
~2.5 years underwater total or ~85,000+ nautical miles at 4 knots to nowhere
Ports visited: Norfolk/Newport News (4), Charleston (1), Groton (2), Holy Loch (7 or 13 depending on how you count it), Naples (1), Port Canaveral (10 or 17 depending on how you count it).
Highest in port watchstation qualified: *Duty Chief
Highest at sea watchstation qualified: *Chief Of the Watch
Played poker with the captain twice, lost once (1 mo 1/2 pay). Very long story and squadron politics were involved in both.

*both cards completed except for the CO's signature, he did the interview and I passed but for inspection reasons he didn't sign me off (the inspectors only quizzed certified watchstanders so we only certified enough to actually stand the watch). I did stand as duty chief during off crew periods.

[Pardalis]

:shaggy:

[chuckle]

Spot-on. :D

[beachnut]

lol, loose change is the Gospel, cult...

Night-line exposed the nut cases and they don't even know they are nut cases (in respect to 911)

The FBI agent, is dumber than dirt. Rowley, does not support 911 truth, she only supports that the full truth is not known and she used hearsay to support herself, her opinion; based on nothing. But she blew the whistle; was that to quit, she rang the bell.

[Dave Rogers]

As a sidenote Mackey, you see that 911 truth is storming the media, especially online.

Funnily enough, like the demolition explosions, the 16 foot circular hole in the front of the Pentagon, and the neat, tidy piles of rubble, that's another one of those things that it seems only the truthers can see.

Dave

[Mashuna]

If I was alive for WWII I would gladly have signed up and died if need be.



Which side would you have been on?

[PixyMisa]

I did operations that I'm not at liberty to tell you about.

Of course, being familiar with submarine operations intimately like you undoubtedly are, you instantly know why that is. Right? Oh, sorry, not right.
Cripes, just visiting a sub while it was on the surface was enough for me!

[jhunter1163]

The military wouldn't take me, because my uncorrected vision is something like 20/600 and I also had an aortic aneurysm. Not that I didn't want to go. There is a long and proud tradition of military service in my family: two of my brothers are retired Air Force master sergeants and my uncle is a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel (and no, he's not Beachnut).

I salute every one of the forum's current and former service members. Unlike some here, I do understand what it takes to be a soldier, a sailor, an airman or a Marine, even if I never got the chance to see if I had it myself.

Korey Rowe has earned nothing but contempt for his so-called "service."

[Travis]

The Army wouldn't take me either because of my medical history. Granted that was back in 1998 when they had more recruits than they knew what to do with. I suspect standards might be different these days.

[JimBenArm]

Boot Camp: Great Lakes Nov 82 - Jan 83
Basic Enlisted Submarine School Jan 83 - Mar 83
SSBN 654 Mar 83 - Nov 86
SSN 571 Nov 86 - May 89
SSBN 631 May 89 - Apr 91
Rank at EOAS TM1(SS) (E6)
Strategic deterrence patrols - 8 (4 on each boat)
1 refueling overhaul (Newport News VA)
~2.5 years underwater total or ~85,000+ nautical miles at 4 knots to nowhere
Ports visited: Norfolk/Newport News (4), Charleston (1), Groton (2), Holy Loch (7 or 13 depending on how you count it), Naples (1), Port Canaveral (10 or 17 depending on how you count it).
Highest in port watchstation qualified: *Duty Chief
Highest at sea watchstation qualified: *Chief Of the Watch
Played poker with the captain twice, lost once (1 mo 1/2 pay). Very long story and squadron politics were involved in both.

*both cards completed except for the CO's signature, he did the interview and I passed but for inspection reasons he didn't sign me off (the inspectors only quizzed certified watchstanders so we only certified enough to actually stand the watch). I did stand as duty chief during off crew periods.

You were on the Nautilus? Cool! Was that during the decommissioning of her, or was she still operational then?

[SatansMaleVoiceChoir]

Thank you again for sharing this videos. I enjoyed them.

You can see how much those two young men care about their country, ESPECIALLY the veteran (the one without the long hair).

It amazes how how he has served our country in the military, and is now acting in our country's best interest by getting this information out there. That is a true patriot, what a brave person, served in the military, and is now asking the hard questions that so few people are willing to ask.

Thank you for these videos, they were inspiring.

-Abe

You (especially) and Profanz seem to attach some sort of authority on to having served in the military, as well as bravery and patriotism; so what about people like me and many on this board, and millions of others, who continue to serve in the military and think the idea of 9/11 as an 'inside job' is absolute dog-toffee of the highest order? Are we not brave and patriotic too? We didn't desert either - doesn't that make us braver and more patriotic, and therefore more likely to be correct, according to your logic?

I'm confused also as to why you think we are patriotic anyway if we're serving a Government that killed 3000 of its own people, and why you think we're brave when we're fighting a war against a terror organisation you don't even believe exists.

In fact, both of you and your twisted logic confuse me hugely. Perhaps, in your haste to make some sort of piss-poor point scoring attempt, you should actually THINK about what you're posting?

[JimBenArm]

You (especially) and Profanz seem to attach some sort of authority on to having served in the military, as well as bravery and patriotism; so what about people like me and many on this board, and millions of others, who continue to serve in the military and think the idea of 9/11 as an 'inside job' is absolute dog-toffee of the highest order? Are we not brave and patriotic too? We didn't desert either - doesn't that make us braver and more patriotic, and therefore more likely to be correct, according to your logic?

I'm confused also as to why you think we are patriotic anyway if we're serving a Government that killed 3000 of its own people, and why you think we're brave when we're fighting a war against a terror organisation you don't even believe exists.

In fact, both of you and your twisted logic confuse me hugely. Perhaps, in your haste to make some sort of piss-poor point scoring attempt, you should actually THINK about what you're posting?
That makes the thinker-thing on top of their shoulders all hurty.

[carlitos]

They didn't come off too badly in the news segment. Even they realized that losing it on camera wasn't productive, but that was only a small bit. Dylan didn't pick, scratch or bite his nails on-camera, so kudos there. Their 15 minutes has been a bit ... long.

[VespaGuy]

They didn't come off too badly in the news segment. Even they realized that losing it on camera wasn't productive, but that was only a small bit. Dylan didn't pick, scratch or bite his nails on-camera, so kudos there. Their 15 minutes has been a bit ... long.

I disagree. Dylan's appearance, evasive answers ("Why wouldn't they?"), and anger clearly paint him as a loon. No fancy editing required. I believe that people without any interest in 9/11 conspiracies (which is an overwhelming majority of the population) will quickly - and correctly - lump him and Rowe in with the "lunatic fringe"

[carlitos]

Yes, I suppose I am a little jaded by reading this forum. Any sane person, when asked "why would the US government murder 3,000 people?" would probably not answer "why wouldn't they?" Good point.

[Roadtoad]

In reading the responses, all I can say to Profanz is "Told you so."

[scissorhands]

ABCs coverage of the treason event starting with the pentagon shooter and moving on to the conference.

JqQHHYaBsGg

[TruthersLie]

That was a pretty good story.

The only issue I had is that ABC stated "that jet fuel wasn't hot enough to melt steel"

Which isn't one of the claims of FEMA, nor of NIST. It makes it sound like NIST said it was hot enough to melt steel.

They should have said to WEAKEN the steel enough to cause a collapse.

[Hokulele]

I wonder if any of the resident CTists will contact ABC to complain about the truthers calling themselves truthers throughout that piece.

[Sabrina]

So, has the deserter responded yet? Have any of the so-called "patriots" tried to sign up here to tell me or the others here objecting to Rowe being granted a title he did not earn off?

You've had at least 24 hours... it doesn't take THAT long to get over here.

[grandmastershek]

Nah he has already made a massive contribution, He should step back now and get on with his life. He has given enough.

he sure has. he has shown that critical thinking is definitely not studied and reinforced enough in public schools.

Host: "Why would they?"

DA: "Why wouldn't they?"

dylan still has zero grasp of basic logic.

[tsig]

Which side would you have been on?

Nom for pith.

[Comsat Angel]

Yeah. No combat?

I thought I heard squeaking - must have been the goalposts being moved.

Son, do you know what an "SSBN" is? I guess not. It's a BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINE ARMED WITH NUCLEAR MISSILES.

If Jim had seen combat you and I would be glowing chips of charcoal.

[Comsat Angel]

Never served. If I was alive for WWII I would gladly have signed up and died if need be.


Yes, I can just see you stomping down the Champs Elysees in your spiffy Waffen SS uniform.

[Roadtoad]

I thought I heard squeaking - must have been the goalposts being moved.

Son, do you know what an "SSBN" is? I guess not. It's a BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINE ARMED WITH NUCLEAR MISSILES.

If Jim had seen combat you and I would be glowing chips of charcoal.

I thought the term was "Extra Crispy."

[Sam.I.Am]

You were on the Nautilus? Cool! Was that during the decommissioning of her, or was she still operational then?

After her decommissioning and conversion to a tourist trap. She was my "Shore" duty rotation. Port and starboard duty sections during the day taking care of the tourists and about 1 night every 9 days or so on a security watch. Days not on watch were spent aft paintin' and preservatin'.

Not very glamorous duty but it had it's benefits. Women in short skirts during the summer going through a watertight door for example... :D

[ElMondoHummus]

Women in short skirts during the summer going through a watertight door for example... :D

I demand evidence that this occurred. Photographs are acceptible.

Jim: Not from you. I mean photographs of women in short skirts. :D

[JimBenArm]

I demand evidence that this occurred. Photographs are acceptible.

Jim: Not from you. I mean photographs of women in short skirts. :D

Why the sudden interest in women?

[Sam.I.Am]

I demand evidence that this occurred. Photographs are acceptible.

Jim: Not from you. I mean photographs of women in short skirts. :D

Have you ever worn crackerjacks? No place to put a camera...

Imagine someone wearing something like this:

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9224/kimkardashianinshortski.jpg

Going through something like this:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1920/49lg82003308208851.jpg

[wargord]

It is funny that people are defending the coward Rowe. Saying that they would have realized they were pussies also and runaway. The sad part is that Rowe said, in the video, that he signed up to kill terrorists. If that is what he wanted to do, then why did he runaway like the piece of yellow **** he is?

I joined the Army in Nov. 2000. When we were told that we would be sent to war after the terrorists attacks we all accepted it, as it was in our contracts. So was stoploss. Not one active duty soldier I served with complained about being stop lossed. They accepted it because it is in the contract that we all signed. I am tired of hearing about all these pussies who didn't read there contracts and bitched and moaned about actually have to do their jobs. Nothing pisses me off more than listening to pussies and piece of **** cowards. Or the piece of **** cowards and pussies who defend them.

[JimBenArm]

It is funny that people are defending the coward Rowe. Saying that they would have realized they were pussies also and runaway. The sad part is that Rowe said, in the video, that he signed up to kill terrorists. If that is what he wanted to do, then why did he runaway like the piece of yellow **** he is?

I joined the Army in Nov. 2000. When we were told that we would be sent to war after the terrorists attacks we all accepted it, as it was in our contracts. So was stoploss. Not one active duty soldier I served with complained about being stop lossed. They accepted it because it is in the contract that we all signed. I am tired of hearing about all these pussies who didn't read there contracts and bitched and moaned about actually have to do their jobs. Nothing pisses me off more than listening to pussies and piece of **** cowards. Or the piece of **** cowards and pussies who defend them.

So, how do you REALLY feel? Don't hold back, now!:D

[scissorhands]

It is funny that people are defending the coward Rowe. Saying that they would have realized they were pussies also and runaway. The sad part is that Rowe said, in the video, that he signed up to kill terrorists. If that is what he wanted to do, then why did he runaway like the piece of yellow **** he is?

I joined the Army in Nov. 2000. When we were told that we would be sent to war after the terrorists attacks we all accepted it, as it was in our contracts. So was stoploss. Not one active duty soldier I served with complained about being stop lossed. They accepted it because it is in the contract that we all signed. I am tired of hearing about all these pussies who didn't read there contracts and bitched and moaned about actually have to do their jobs. Nothing pisses me off more than listening to pussies and piece of **** cowards. Or the piece of **** cowards and pussies who defend them.

Thread winner.:)

[fallout]

It is funny that people are defending the coward Rowe. Saying that they would have realized they were pussies also and runaway. The sad part is that Rowe said, in the video, that he signed up to kill terrorists. If that is what he wanted to do, then why did he runaway like the piece of yellow **** he is?

I joined the Army in Nov. 2000. When we were told that we would be sent to war after the terrorists attacks we all accepted it, as it was in our contracts. So was stoploss. Not one active duty soldier I served with complained about being stop lossed. They accepted it because it is in the contract that we all signed. I am tired of hearing about all these pussies who didn't read there contracts and bitched and moaned about actually have to do their jobs. Nothing pisses me off more than listening to pussies and piece of **** cowards. Or the piece of **** cowards and pussies who defend them.

Looks like the usual military biased and emotional rant.

[Hokulele]

Looks like the usual military biased and emotional rant.


Ah, "heads I win, tails you lose".

To explain for those in the back of the room, if you don't have military experience, you aren't allowed to comment. If you do have military experience, your comments will be disqualified as biased.

[fallout]

Ah, "heads I win, tails you lose".

To explain for those in the back of the room, if you don't have military experience, you aren't allowed to comment. If you do have military experience, your comments will be disqualified as biased.

I´m not saying that it's awesome to desert, but that's some solid ranting.

[wargord]

The only bias I have is against pussies and piece of **** cowards and then go on to make up lies and attempt to connect unrelated events to accuse people greater than them of committing atrocious acts. Which none of it has any valid proof in reality. I also have a bias the the pussies and piece of **** cowards who defend them and support their ******** lies.

[fallout]

So, has the deserter responded yet? Have any of the so-called "patriots" tried to sign up here to tell me or the others here objecting to Rowe being granted a title he did not earn off?

You've had at least 24 hours... it doesn't take THAT long to get over here.

LC answered me telling they forwarded the message to him. It's good because i'm out of popcorn atm. :)

[GreNME]

I´m not saying that it's awesome to desert, but that's some solid ranting.

Then I suggest reading my last post (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5698997#post5698997), which covers why there are people ranting. Deserting isn't just something that is "wrong" from some ambivalent or vague perspective, it's an open slap in the face to the other soldiers a deserter has pledged to work beside. You may have some kind of kick out of knowing that there are people here who have served that get bent out of shape over Rowe's desertion and turning around claiming some kind of respected status, but the reality is that Rowe's desertion not only torpedoed any service he did perform, but his continued nonchalance about it is a lasting exhibit of seriously lacking conviction to back up his stated principles. Korey Rowe is not only trying to take credit for some service that he trashed of his own choice, he's also pretending to have done so with principles that he refused to follow through on when the time came to live up to such principles. His claim of status and principles are logically no different than the draft-dodging chickenhawks whom his supporters dislike.

It's called hypocrisy and unacknowledged hubris, and Rowe exhibits it every time he brings up his time in the military as some example of his speaking to authority or experience.

[T.A.M.]

Looks like the usual military biased and emotional rant.

sounds like the usual truther cowardice contempt for those who would put their lives on the line for you.

TAM:mad:

[Sword_Of_Truth]

They treat the military almost as poorly as they treat the FDNY.

[Roadtoad]

sounds like the usual truther cowardice contempt for those who would put their lives on the line for you.

TAM:mad:

Pretty funny, when you think about it. I grew up knowing I wanted to serve the nation that made it possible for me to do well.

It's pretty easy to sit back and smirk at those who put their lives on the line for the rest of us. It's a little tougher to roll up your sleeves and join them, or when you can't serve alongside them, to make it possible for them to serve. It's pretty hard when you're an employer to hold a position open for those who serve in the Guard and Reserves, when your competitors are snapping at your heels. It's hard to hold jobs open for men and women who go off to war, coming back with their bodies mangled.

Don't support the war? You're not alone. My dad, who earned a Bronze Star in Vietnam and served over 22 years in the Army, though Vietnam was one of the biggest wastes ever, not only in terms of capital, but in terms of lives and equipment. Far too often he referred to it as a disgrace.

And far too often for some, when someone came in to see him about a job holding a DD 214, he took them out for coffee, and tried to see what he could do to help them. You don't see that happen too often. Quite the opposite: Veterans' skills, talents, and abilities are shouldered aside by "What will other people think?"

It's hip, I suppose, to look like a rebel. To thumb your nose at the sacrifices of others. I guess that makes someone look cool to folks like the Truthers, to the Hippie-wannabes that seem to inhabit either the corridors of power, or the upper chairs of pop culture. I guess it's no longer respectable to honor and treasure integrity, courage, patriotism, honor, compassion, ingenuity, strength, passion, or nobility, characteristics I've seen in military veterans across the spectrum of service.

Perhaps I ought to mention my friends who have CDLs, and have served in the Marine Corps. Honorable men and women who have helped me, upheld me, and challenged me to do better as a trucker and as a man. I did not deserve this, but I received it, and I'm proud, honored, and humbled to have done so.

Maybe I ought to mention my friends who served in the Navy, or the Army, who have done much the same for me, and who continue to serve in ways which are generally unseen by the rest of us. I'm proud to know them.

I guess I could mention my friends from the Air Force, including a retired Air Force E-9, who has demonstrated compassion that exceeds the need, and continues to. I have always felt great respect for this man, even as he tells tales that have had us laughing into tears, (including the one about the Russian spy trawler that got "bombed" by a B-52 loaded with all the trash from Guam.)

I'm sorry that fallout and others can't respect the service of others. I can. I do. And for that, I'm grateful.

That Korey Rowe seeks to align himself with genuine heroes in an effort to deflect his genuine cowardice demonstrates that he knows damned good and well that he was wrong. It's too bad he's not enough of a man to admit to it.

[Roadtoad]

They treat the military almost as poorly as they treat the FDNY.

See above.

[Sabrina]

Darnit, Roadtoad, stop putting up posts that are so eloquent they should be nominated in one thread!!!

Spread the love. :D

[fallout]

sounds like the usual truther cowardice contempt for those who would put their lives on the line for you.

TAM:mad:

More anger and rant...

Nope, no military of my country ever put their lives on the line for me. Fortunately my country never waged war since I was born. And I praise it for it.

I already posted here, that I don't buy any military poopy excuses for carnage, let alone in a bogus war like iraq/afghanistan. I'm pretty sorry to say that but you asked for it.

[Roadtoad]

More anger and rant...

Nope, no military of my country ever put their lives on the line for me. Fortunately my country never waged war since I was born. And I praise it for it.

I already posted here, that I don't buy any military poopy excuses for carnage, let alone in a bogus war like iraq/afghanistan. I'm pretty sorry to say that but you asked for it.

Must be nice, then, to be able to sit on your high horse and spew judgment on the rest of us. Or was that sewage?

Not too many here will disagree with you regarding Iraq. Afghanistan, you'll get more of a fight. But your overall holier than thou attitude reeks.

I don't know where you are, but at some point, someone put their ass on the line so you could have a decent life. Sorry you don't see it, but there are those of us who do. And we respect them for it. Sorry that you don't, or can't, which makes you a rather sad individual for it.

[fallout]

I'm sorry if my position above hurts the ideology of many here, in fact I think this is thoroughly OT since the beginning. It's not that I don't respect the service of others, I just don't buy war excuses that aren't solely for military defense on my country, against military invasion from other countries. Other than that it's just baloney and excuses for imperialism and expansionism, and it's an ideology discussion. I don't want to go any futher than that, fo me is case closed and I respect everyone who disagrees with me about military uses. I just think it's ridiculous the level of ranting and name calling people often resort to over here.

[JimBenArm]

I'm sorry if my position above hurts the ideology of many here, in fact I think this is thoroughly OT since the beginning. It's not that I don't respect the service of others, I just don't buy war excuses that aren't solely for military defense on my country, against military invasion from other countries. Other than that it's just baloney and excuses for imperialism and expansionism, and it's an ideology discussion. I don't want to go any futher than that, fo me is case closed and I respect everyone who disagrees with me about military uses. I just think it's ridiculous the level of ranting and name calling people often resort to over here.
Ah, you think your opinion hurts? Really?
My, how do you ever get through a door with an ego that large?

[Roadtoad]

I'm sorry if my position above hurts the ideology of many here, in fact I think this is thoroughly OT since the beginning. It's not that I don't respect the service of others, I just don't buy war excuses that aren't solely for military defense on my country, against military invasion from other countries. Other than that it's just baloney and excuses for imperialism and expansionism, and it's an ideology discussion. I don't want to go any futher than that, fo me is case closed and I respect everyone who disagrees with me about military uses. I just think it's ridiculous the level of ranting and name calling people often resort to over here.

Nice backtrack. I'll have to remember it.

You don't have to be in lockstep with anyone regarding America's involvement in the Middle East. There are many on this board who have earned the respect of others who share your concerns and doubts regarding what has happened in Iraq, and Bush's motivation for it.

At the same time, you have come across as holding little respect for those who have served, people who have placed their lives on the line for the safety and security of others. Good people have taken a stand, without any desire for Empire or Hegemony, and done so for very honorable reasons.

If you want to challenge the motive, fine. No one will argue that. Nor are the actions of individual soldiers exempt when it's appropriate to question them. But if you're going to fire a shot across the bow, as it were, be prepared for return fire.

[fallout]

Must be nice, then, to be able to sit on your high horse and spew judgment on the rest of us. Or was that sewage?

I think I adressed it on my last post. Exactly regarding the respect of those who serve. I don't think they're the scum.

Not too many here will disagree with you regarding Iraq.

I'm pretty glad to read it, really.


Afghanistan, you'll get more of a fight. But your overall holier than thou attitude reeks.

Hollier than thou? No. It's idelogoy, since tam touched the point I just answered accordingly.

I don't know where you are, but at some point, someone put their ass on the line so you could have a decent life.

I'm completely sure that I will not get a decent life by any other means other than my own efforts as a civilian citizen without any drop of blood spilled. Thinking about being given a better life as a result of a war makes me look for the next sickbag.

Sorry you don't see it, but there are those of us who do. And we respect them for it. Sorry that you don't, or can't, which makes you a rather sad individual for it.

I respect them as well , as long as they respect me. I don't point any fingers in the face of any soldier and tell, "you're scum for being on the military", even if I am anti-war and pacifist by ideology. In return I expect them to act accordingly towards me.

[Profanz]

So a lot of you 9/11 debunkers were already flag waving wannabe cannon fodder soldiers of fortune BEFORE you bought into the 9/11 OCT hook line and sinker?

How surprising.

"M*A*S*H: The Abduction of Margaret Houlihan (#5.6)" (1976)

Colonel Flagg: If it weren't for war you wouldn't know what peace is.
B.J.: He's got a point there.
Hawkeye: Yeah, it's under his hat.

[fallout]

Ah, you think your opinion hurts? Really?
My, how do you ever get through a door with an ego that large?

Your response might make my point.

[Unsecured Coins]

So a lot of you 9/11 debunkers were already flag waving wannabe cannon fodder soldiers of fortune BEFORE you bought into the 9/11 OCT hook line and sinker?

How surprising.

"M*A*S*H: The Abduction of Margaret Houlihan (#5.6)" (1976)

Colonel Flagg: If it weren't for war you wouldn't know what peace is.
B.J.: He's got a point there.
Hawkeye: Yeah, it's under his hat.

Flag waving wannabe cannon fodder...

whatever you say, chuckles. whatever you say.

[DavidJames]

I am anti-war and pacifist by ideology.It's not the anti-war and pacifism that get me, it's the bottomless ignorance and unbridled arrogance.

[fallout]

At the same time, you have come across as holding little respect for those who have served, people who have placed their lives on the line for the safety and security of others.

You won't believe me again but I do respect. But... safety and security of who? May I ask?

Good people have taken a stand, without any desire for Empire or Hegemony, and done so for very honorable reasons.

Yes many soldiers are really great persons, and with good intention. Unfortunately , those they serve, the country, wants hegemony.

If you want to challenge the motive, fine. No one will argue that. Nor are the actions of individual soldiers exempt when it's appropriate to question them. But if you're going to fire a shot across the bow, as it were, be prepared for return fire.

I am being thoroughly fired just by pointing out the ludicrous insults, lack of respect and name calling.

[fallout]

It's not the anti-war and pacifism that get me, it's the bottomless ignorance and unbridled arrogance.

Enlighten me then.

[Redtail]

So a lot of you 9/11 debunkers were already flag waving wannabe cannon fodder soldiers of fortune BEFORE you bought into the 9/11 OCT hook line and sinker?

How surprising.

"M*A*S*H: The Abduction of Margaret Houlihan (#5.6)" (1976)

Colonel Flagg: If it weren't for war you wouldn't know what peace is.
B.J.: He's got a point there.
Hawkeye: Yeah, it's under his hat.

You heard it here first folks! Korey Rowe was flag waving, wannabe, cannon fodder, soldier of fortune, before he was a deserter who dove into 9/11 infowarriordom!:D

[UNLoVedRebel]

Flag waving wannabe cannon fodder...

whatever you say, chuckles. whatever you say.

I don't think you're a "flag waving wannabe cannon fodder". I never thanked you for your service, Jaye Powers, so here it is :thanks. Some old JREFers were never able to serve because they were morbidly obese, like ZENSMACK. So hats off to you UC.

[Profanz]

So what was the penalty Rowe was given for this supposed desertion?

[Thunder]

So what was the penalty Rowe was given for this supposed desertion?

he was arrested by MPs for felony desertion.

i think he was given a dishonorable discharge. but i could be wrong.