Under God

[DallasDad]

Newdow has lost both bids. The 9th Circuit ruled in favor of keeping "Under God" in the pledge, and keeping "In God We Trust" on currency.

What I found interesting about the opinions was the general sense that these things did not endorse religion, but rather embraced or celebrated our country's history. I haven't read the rulings themselves, and am going off news reports, so my understanding may be incorrect.

If celebrating our founders' beliefs (whether or not we currently share them) is important and constitutional, why can't we have "Blacks are Inferior" on our coins?

The court seems to be saying that because something was once believed, it's okay for the state to continue endorsing that position. But I hope they would instantly rule "Blacks are Inferior" as unconstitutional, even though it was a belief held devoutly by many/most of our founders.

So is their argument just specious, or am I missing something? Sure seems to me that if historical beliefs of one kind are valid, any other historical beliefs should be fine, too.

[Fnord]

As William Shakespeare once said, "Much Ado About Nothing."

[Angus McPresley]

I think we should fight to have the historic Pledge of Allegiance restored.

[daredelvis]

Do a little research and you will find that the founding fathers had nothing to do with putting "Under God" in the pledge, or "In God We Trust" on currency.

Daredelvis

[Achán hiNidráne]

Do a little research and you will find that the founding fathers had nothing to do with putting "Under God" in the pledge, or "In God We Trust" on currency.


As we all know, the phrase "under God" wasn't added until 1954 amid the mindless hysteria of the McCarthy era and the desire for America to make some sort of jingoistic statement against "godless Communism." It was about that same time that America's inclusive and secular motto "e pluribus unum" was changed to "In God We Trust" for the exact same reason.

The U.S. started stamping "In God We Trust" back during the Civil War, the reason, according the U.S. Department of Treasury's own WWW site (http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml):

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. The page cites the following letter from a Minster: Dear Sir:

You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances. One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.

You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.
This is why I don't buy the concept of "public deism" that the courts often cite when end they up ignoring the establishment clause to placate America's Christian mob or their own ideological stupidity. The people who placed those affirmations on our pledge, our motto, and our money didn't have some vague, nebulous, fill-in-the-blanks, all-purpose deity that is supposed to fill in for all faiths in mind when they make reference to a "God." They didn't give an flying :curseabout the Jewish interpretation of Yahweh, Allah, the numerous deities of the Hindu pantheon, the dual Gods of Zoroastrianism, the Olympians, the Aesir, the Great Old Ones, or even the Great Green Arkleseizure. They had one and only one god in mind: the Christian God. If that isn't "establishment," then it's time we tossed out the whole dictionary because at that point our words mean nothing.

To say otherwise is not just bad law and ignores America's history of religious bigotry, but it's a horrendous lie that will eventually come back and bite believer and unbeliever alike in the ass.

[Achán hiNidráne]

I think we should fight to have the historic Pledge of Allegiance restored.

Here's a question: Why do we even need a pledge at all?

I thought we lived in a "free country." To my way of mind, free countries didn't demand or expect (even unofficially) that their people pledge or swear their loyalty or allegiance to the state. Only dictatorships do that.

[TragicMonkey]

Here's a question: Why do we even need a pledge at all?

I thought we lived in a "free country." To my way of mind, free countries didn't demand or expect (even unofficially) that their people pledge or swear their loyalty or allegiance to the state. Only dictatorships do that.

Silly, it's different when we do it! Because it's us doing it, and we're good, therefore whatever we do is not only completely justified but probably so manifestly the right thing to do that even questioning it is sinful and leads to terrorism, AIDS, and an eternity in hell. For proof of the divine justice of our causes, just look at our coins. See? "In God We Trust" also means "God Trusts In Us", and if he didn't like what America was doing he'd stop us. His lack of action is the stamp of divine approval! To question America is to question God! And vice versa.

[steve s]

I think we should fight to have the historic Pledge of Allegiance restored.

Don't forget to bring back the Bellamy Salute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute).

Steve S

[KingMerv00]

As a judge, I would have decided differently.

As a atheist citizen, I don't give a crap.

[TragicMonkey]

I wonder why people think it honors their god to have a motto with his name in it stamped on the money anyway? Does it redound to the glory of the Most High that people are snorting coke through his green paper? Or maybe it's not that they're invoking God to bless the money, but the other way around--having America bestow blessings and endorsements on God? Poor thing, he's not very popular, barely ninety-five percent of the human race believes in him in some form. But with a universally beloved thing like America indicating approval, it boosts his popularity tremendously. Why, if we take that motto off the money we'll face simultaneous economic and national collapse along with the actual Apocalypse because it would just about kill God to lose his only supporters. Many's the time he's doubted his own existence, only to be reminded of our trust in him, every time he puts a bill in some stripper's g-string.

[Achán hiNidráne]

I wonder why people think it honors their god to have a motto with his name in it stamped on the money anyway? Does it redound to the glory of the Most High that people are snorting coke through his green paper? Or maybe it's not that they're invoking God to bless the money, but the other way around--having America bestow blessings and endorsements on God? Poor thing, he's not very popular, barely ninety-five percent of the human race believes in him in some form. But with a universally beloved thing like America indicating approval, it boosts his popularity tremendously. Why, if we take that motto off the money we'll face simultaneous economic and national collapse along with the actual Apocalypse because it would just about kill God to lose his only supporters. Many's the time he's doubted his own existence, only to be reminded of our trust in him, every time he puts a bill in some stripper's g-string.

I think It's partially that and the smug satisfaction that comes with declaring America "Christian turf" to remind the unbelievers that they are supposed to be worth crap.

Which makes these affirmations all the more repugnant.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sigh...maybe in another decade.

[Angus McPresley]

Here's a question: Why do we even need a pledge at all?

I thought we lived in a "free country." To my way of mind, free countries didn't demand or expect (even unofficially) that their people pledge or swear their loyalty or allegiance to the state. Only dictatorships do that.


Excellent question. I am an American living in Australia (actually, a dual citizen now) and can I just say how great it is to live in a place where people haven't made their flag into some sort of gilded idol? Most Australians don't even know the words to their national anthem, and -- even better -- would probably make fun of you if you did.

Patriotism tests, including salutes, flag waving, anthem singing... they're all just ways for nationalists to feel they're better than everybody else.