Conservatives threatening violence against health-reform supporters

[Thunder]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20100324/pl_politico/34907

Outright threats of murder against the Congressmen AND their families.

This is not how people behave in a Democracy. This is how brown-shirts in 1933 Munich behave.

And Tea Party leaders refuse to take down the addresses of pro-health reform Congressmen, from their websites. One of them has already had their gas lines cut..and many death threats over the phone. Even GOP leader Boehner said that one Congressmen was a "dead man".

[BenBurch]

Sedition: a term of law which refers to overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. A seditionist is one who engages in or promotes the interests of sedition.

[Thunder]

if some Democratic Congressmen or one of his family members is assaulted or murdered, by some Tea-Bagger scumbag, I'm gonna blame that whole damn movement.

[Peephole]

Someone also cut Perriello's gas line.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/fbi_investigating_cut_gas_line_at_home_of_dem_reps .php?ref=fpblg

[Thunder]

Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Levine, and all the other Neo-Conservative demagogues better tone down the rhetoric before someone gets killed.

[BenBurch]

Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, and all the other Neo-Conservative demagogues better tone down the rhetoric before someone gets killed.

Before THEY wind up in Gitmo.

[Thunder]

Before THEY wind up in Gitmo.

funny...but stupid. :cool:

[The Central Scrutinizer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20100324/pl_politico/34907

Outright threats of murder against the Congressmen AND their families.

This is not how people behave in a Democracy. This is how brown-shirts in 1933 Munich behave.

And Tea Party leaders refuse to take down the addresses of pro-health reform Congressmen, from their websites. One of them has already had their gas lines cut..and many death threats over the phone. Even GOP leader Boehner said that one Congressmen was a "dead man".

The thread title is misleading. I know of no conservatives making threats. I suspect these are teabaggers and other extreme right wing nuts.

[Thunder]

I suspect these are teabaggers and other extreme right wing nuts.

John Boehner said that Congressman Driehaus is a "dead man".

Is Boehner a Tea-Bagger or extreme right-wing nut?

[The True Scotsman]

Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Levine, and all the other Neo-Conservative demagogues better tone down the rhetoric before someone gets killed.

I thought Rush Limbaugh left the country. :p

[dudalb]

Of course people on the Left never use violence or intimidation against their opponents...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=170850

It's amazing how to ideologues evil and craziness only exist on the Other Side......

[Thunder]

Of course people on the Left never use violence or intimidation against their opponents...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=170850

It's amazing how to ideologues evil and craziness only exist on the Other Side......

Coulter is not an elected representative of the people. there is a difference.

btw, let me know when someone threatens to kill Coulter and her children.

[Tony]

Lunatics.

[Thunder]

Lunatics.

I'm sure they mean no harm. They're just blowing off steam. Nothing bad will happen.

:o

[The Painter]

an elected representative of the people.

When 70% of the people are against this, the congressmen is not a reprensentative of the people either. Just there own political dogma.


btw, let me know when someone threatens to kill Coulter and her children.

Stop it! You think that has never happened?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

John Boehner said that Congressman Driehaus is a "dead man".

Is Boehner a Tea-Bagger or extreme right-wing nut?

The latter.

And maybe the former too, although he is billed as a Republican.

[Tony]

Does Coulter have children?

[ANTPogo]

Of course people on the Left never use violence or intimidation against their opponents...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=170850

It's amazing how to ideologues evil and craziness only exist on the Other Side......

Yes, protesting the speaking appearance of a columnist and book author and pulling a fire alarm when there is no fire is exactly as "evil" and "crazy" as making death threats, posting the home address of someone you think is an elected representative but isn't and inviting people to "drop by" to "have a good face-to-face chat", breaking windows, and cutting a propane line to the house of the aforementioned person-who-had-nothing-to-do-with-this.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

When 70% of the people are against this, the congressmen is not a reprensentative of the people either. Just there own political dogma.

I agree. Although 70% of the people aren't against this, so it's a moot point.

[joobz]

Of course people on the Left never use violence or intimidation against their opponents...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=170850

It's amazing how to ideologues evil and craziness only exist on the Other Side......
tu quoque.

I do not see anyone here claiming that this kind of crazy only comes from one side.

[Drudgewire]

if some Democratic Congressmen or one of his family members is assaulted or murdered, by some Tea-Bagger scumbag, I'm gonna blame that whole damn movement.


...and Alex Jones, and the truth movement...

I sometimes get the idea you aren't much for individual responsibility parky.

[Thunder]

When 70% of the people are against this, the congressmen is not a representative of the people either. Just there own political dogma.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100324/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1319

"49% of the USA believes the passed health-care reform is a good thing"

[Thunder]

...and Alex Jones, and the truth movement...

I sometimes get the idea you aren't much for individual responsibility parky.


you are right. James Earl Ray wasn't influenced by the racist forces of the time.

John Wilkes Booth was not influenced by pro-Confederate forces.


Tim McVeigh was not influenced by the militia movement.

The Olympic/Abortion bomber was not influenced by the right-wing religious nuts.

Islamic radical lone-wolves who kill Americans, are not influenced by Islamist teachers.

:cool:

[Shalamar]

When 70% of the people are against this, the congressmen is not a reprensentative of the people either. Just there own political dogma.


I'm looking for where you condemn the actions and threats of violence, but instead you only condemn those who voted for the reform.

So then you seem to accept the threats, damage, and possible violence as acceptable.

[Thunder]

I'm looking for where you condemn the actions and threats of violence, but instead you only condemn those who voted for the reform.

plus he is horribly out of date, as far as public support for the reform law goes.

[dudalb]

Yes, protesting the speaking appearance of a columnist and book author and pulling a fire alarm when there is no fire is exactly as "evil" and "crazy" as making death threats, posting the home address of someone you think is an elected representative but isn't and inviting people to "drop by" to "have a good face-to-face chat", breaking windows, and cutting a propane line to the house of the aforementioned person-who-had-nothing-to-do-with-this.

The degree may differ, but it's still intimidation of others because of their opinions.

[dudalb]

I'm looking for where you condemn the actions and threats of violence, but instead you only condemn those who voted for the reform.

So then you seem to accept the threats, damage, and possible violence as acceptable.


Agreed.
Painter is playing verbal games.

[DavidJames]

The degree may differ, but it's still intimidation of others because of their opinions.You are derailing the thread. Please start your own thread.

[ANTPogo]

The degree may differ, but it's still intimidation of others because of their opinions.

All intimidations are not equal.

If someone gets a bunch of astroturfers to repeatedly post messages telling you to shut up on this message board, for instance, that's not an intimidation anywhere near the same level as if someone finds out your name, phone number, and address, and makes repeated death threats over the phone while tossing bricks through your bedroom window.

[Darat]

Folks keep to the topic of this thread - there is already a thread discussing the Ann Coulter protests: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=170850

[JoeTheJuggler]

Of course people on the Left never use violence or intimidation against their opponents...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=170850

It's amazing how to ideologues evil and craziness only exist on the Other Side......

I just skimmed through that thread that was about students protesting their university's decision to hire Ann Coulter to come and speak, and Ann Coulter cancelled fearing the protests would get out of hand.

I saw that during the protests someone falsely pulled a fire alarm, but I didn't see anything in there about death threats directed against Coulter.

As I said, I just skimmed through that thread, but it seems that even your tu quoque argument cites an example that isn't really the same.

On top of that, Boehner is a member of Congress, whereas college students are college students. Not a lot of parallel there either.

[Thunder]

I am waiting for any of our resident Birthers/Tea-Baggers to condemn these threats of violence.

or....as they say...must the tree of liberty be watered?

[Thunder]

On top of that, Boehner is a member of Congress, whereas college students are college students. Not a lot of parallel there either.

Boehner is the Minority Leader in the United States House of Representatives. His words are appalling and have NO place in a civilized democracy.

[ksbluesfan]

Boehner is the Minority Leader in the United States House of Representatives. His words are appalling and have NO place in a civilized democracy.

What was the exact quote? Did he say Driehaus is a "dead man politically"?

[Neally]

John Boehner said that Congressman Driehaus is a "dead man".

Is Boehner a Tea-Bagger or extreme right-wing nut?Neither. The reference was that Driehaus is a dead man politically for voting in favor of the bill.

[ksbluesfan]

I think Boehner should have phrased that differently. Neugebauer should have kept his mouth shut too.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

btw, let me know when someone threatens to kill Coulter and her children.

"if we were in another country... we would stone Henry Hyde to death and we would go to their homes and kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families, for what they're doing to this country."
- Actor, liberal democrat, Alec Baldwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Baldwin#Political_views)

Eight Years of Death Threats against The President (http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621)

"There is no cause so noble that it will not attract fuggheads"
-Larry Niven

[Thunder]

"if we were in another country... we would stone Henry Hyde to death and we would go to their homes and kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families, for what they're doing to this country."
- Actor, liberal democrat, Alec Baldwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Baldwin#Political_views)

Eight Years of Death Threats against The President (http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621)

"There is no cause so noble that it will not attract fuggheads"
-Larry Niven

yeah....what are you saying, Sword of Truth?????

if we were a better country...we would assault the Democrats who passed health-care reform? Pelosi and Reid would face the gallows?

is that your dream???

[Undesired Walrus]

I think 7 threads is enough for today Parky.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

yeah....what are you saying, Sword of Truth?????

if we were a better country...we would assault the Democrats who passed health-care reform? Pelosi and Reid would face the gallows?

is that your dream???

I'm saying that both sides have fuggheads.

I don't think you are responsible for Alec Baldwins asshattery.

Do you think I am responsible for what some other asshat did yesterday?

[Thunder]

Do you think I am responsible for what some other asshat did yesterday?

i do not consider you to be a conservative/right-wing demagogue.

sorry bud. ;)

[JoeTheJuggler]

What was the exact quote? Did he say Driehaus is a "dead man politically"?

If that's what he said, I wouldn't construe that as a death threat or a call to violence.

ETA: Here's the exact quote: “Take [Rep.] Steve Driehaus, for example,” he says. “He may be a dead man. He can’t go home to the west side of Cincinnati. The Catholics will run him out of town.”

I'm not sure that's the same as saying he is politically dead (i.e. stands no chance of reelection) or something a lot more sinister.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

i do not consider you to be a conservative/right-wing demagogue.

sorry bud. ;)

I'm clearly not trying hard enough.

[Thunder]

I'm clearly not trying hard enough.

during the 8 years of hell with Mr. Bush, I condemned analogies made between him and Hitler.

I hope are resident right-wingers will have the courage to comdenm similar attacks against Obama and those Democrats who voted for health-care reform.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

during the 8 years of hell with Mr. Bush, I condemned analogies made between him and Hitler.

I hope are resident right-wingers will have the courage to comdenm similar attacks against Obama and those Democrats who voted for health-care reform.

But you're ok with implying all conservatives are responsible for these death threats?

[Brainster]

Sedition: a term of law which refers to overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. A seditionist is one who engages in or promotes the interests of sedition.

I sincerely hope you're kidding with this.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

if some Democratic Congressmen or one of his family members is assaulted or murdered, by some Tea-Bagger scumbag, I'm gonna blame that whole damn movement.Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Levine, and all the other Neo-Conservative demagogues better tone down the rhetoric before someone gets killed.

Quoted for posterity.

[Thunder]

But you're ok with implying all conservatives are responsible for these death threats?

please quote where I said: "all Tea-Baggers and right-wingers will be responsible if one Democrat is killed"

i said i would blame the movement, not individual loser idiots.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

please quote where I said: "all Tea-Baggers and right-wingers will be responsible if one Democrat is killed"

i said i would blame the movement, not individual loser idiots.

Do you ever stop and read your own posts before you hit the button?

For myself, if any person attacks a democrat or a republican elected official, or President Obama or President Bush than I will hold those specific individuals responsible and call for them to be prosecuted and punished to the fullest extent of the law.

And I hope that Hannity, Beck, Levine, Limbaugh, O'Reilly aaaaaannnnd... Olberman, Stewart, Maddow, Colbert and the rest continue to excersize their rights of free speech and the petition of government for a redress of greivances.

Even if they are gonna be dicks about it.

[BenBurch]

Of course people on the Left never use violence or intimidation against their opponents...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=170850

It's amazing how to ideologues evil and craziness only exist on the Other Side......

False Comparison, sorry.

No violence used. None threatened as far as I can see. An intense PROTEST, and they cancelled because they were not brave enough to face the POSSIBILITY of violence.

[BenBurch]

I sincerely hope you're kidding with this.

Not if you are physically assaulting members of congress or their families. That is by definition Sedition.

Had anybody done that to Newt Gingrich, for example, I would feel the same way about it.

[Thunder]

Do you ever stop and read your own posts before you hit the button?

For myself, if any person attacks a democrat or a republican elected official, or President Obama or President Bush than I will hold those specific individuals responsible and call for them to be prosecuted and punished to the fullest extent of the law.

And I hope that Hannity, Beck, Levine, Limbaugh, O'Reilly aaaaaannnnd... Olberman, Stewart, Maddow, Colbert and the rest continue to excersize their rights of free speech and the petition of government for a redress of greivances.


i fully support political dissent, and calls for completely peaceful dissent and the peaceful transition of government.

but the second you start talking about revolution or any kind of violence, you need to be arrested.

this is not the USSR or Nazi Germany. one's grievances can be addressed peacefully and within the framework of our existing laws and political processes.

[Redtail]

i fully support political dissent, and calls for completely peaceful dissent and the peaceful transition of government.

but the second you start talking about revolution or any kind of violence, you need to be arrested.

this is not the USSR or Nazi Germany. one's grievances can be addressed peacefully and within the framework of our existing laws and political processes.

But a revolution doesn't have to be violent.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

But a revolution doesn't have to be violent.

Don't make me come over there and passively resist you. ;)

[Thunder]

But a revolution doesn't have to be violent.

wanna convert the USA into a Fascist or Communist state, through non-violence? sorry..but I'm not cool with that either.

The United States is a Representative Democracy & a Republic, and I will fight to preserve that.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

wanna convert the USA into a Fascist or Communist state, through non-violence? sorry..but I'm not cool with that either.


How about a state with a small government that doesn't interfere in the lives of its citizens? Can we non-violently do that?

[Thunder]

How about a state with a small government that doesn't interfere in the lives of its citizens? Can we non-violently do that?

absolutely!!

elect representatives who want to enact such rules in Congress.

that's the American way.

but if you lose, deal with it. or move to a country that fits you better.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

absolutely!!

elect representatives who want to enact such rules in Congress.

that's the American way.

but if you lose, deal with it. or move to a country that fits you better.

Great, I'll let Rush, Sean and Glenn know they can keep doing what they've been doing.

[Redtail]

Don't make me come over there and passively resist you. ;)

We just got 40 kittens at the cat ranch. I'd just give you a tuna sandwich and cute you into submission.:D

wanna convert the USA into a Fascist or Communist state, through non-violence? sorry..but I'm not cool with that either.

The United States is a Representative Democracy & a Republic, and I will fight to preserve that.

I agree, but those who try to do so through non-violent (or otherwise legal means) don't deserve jail.

[Thunder]

I agree, but those who try to do so through non-violent (or otherwise legal means) don't deserve jail.

what do you suggest we do with 1,000 Tea-Baggers who show up to the Capital building and demand that all Congressmen resign and leave the premises?

what should we do with them if they walk into the Senate and House chambers, declare themselves the "true" representatives of the American people, and refuse to leave?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

We just got 40 kittens at the cat ranch. I'd just give you a tuna sandwich and cute you into submission.:D

I'm bringing my gun. :p

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Kilstryke/hasbro_toyfair_12.jpg

[Sword_Of_Truth]

what do you suggest we do with 1,000 Tea-Baggers who show up to the Capital building and demand that all Congressmen resign and leave the premises?

Listen, consider then choose to accept or reject their point of view.

what should we do with them if they walk into the Senate and House chambers, declare themselves the "true" representatives of the American people, and refuse to leave?

Arrest them and make them spend the night in the drunk tank.

[Thunder]

Arrest them and make them spend the night in the drunk tank.

agreed. freedom of speech does not include loitering and disturbing the peace.

im sure its also illegal to prevent a duly elected government official from exercising his official duties.

[Redtail]

what do you suggest we do with 1,000 Tea-Baggers who show up to the Capital building and demand that all Congressmen resign and leave the premises?
Nothing. They have every right to say that... Well we could laugh and mock them too, as is our right.

what should we do with them if they walk into the Senate and House chambers, declare themselves the "true" representatives of the American people, and refuse to leave?

Arrest them. By refusing to leave when to to by the proper authorities they have crossed the line by breaking a law.

[Denver]

Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Levine, and all the other Neo-Conservative demagogues better tone down the rhetoric before someone gets killed.

I heard some Beck on the radio this morning:

Let me, let me warn you now in no uncertain terms: You must always be a people of peace. Always. Unless your life is being threatened, in no uncertain terms, you must always be a people of peace...

Later, he explains why:

They need you to pick up a gun or a bomb. They need you to break the law. They need you to become them in the 1960s. They need you to do it. Because they know America does not support those kinds of people and they have become legitimate. They have dropped the radical pose for the radical ends, and they are making you the radical. Do not play into their game. They hold all of the cards. Do not do anything but get on your knees. As we turn to him, he will turn to us. This is his land. Let it play out his way. Do not pick up anything... except your soul. They need you to become radical.

Link (http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/38365/)

The first quote sounded like he was taking the high ground. The second quote changed my mind. But, as long as he's trying to diffuse some of the threats and saber rattling, he can come up with whatever reason he wants that he thinks will convince his audience.

Though, I wonder if he's doing this because he realizes he's playing with fire, and has taken his message too far?

[Thunder]

well, if Beck is toning down the rhetoric, then I applaud his patriotism.

and yes, I do think such would be an act of patriotism.

Peace is Patriotic.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs087.snc1/5067_99596490737_567160737_2466035_7415718_s.jpg

:)

[BenBurch]

...
Arrest them and make them spend the night in the drunk tank.

What do you do with a drunken sailor,
What do you do with a drunken sailor,
What do you do with a drunken sailor,
Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus:]

Way hay and up she rises
Way hay and up she rises
Way hay and up she rises
Earl-eye in the morning

Shave his belly with a rusty razor,
Shave his belly with a rusty razor,
Shave his belly with a rusty razor,
Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

Put him in the hold with the Captain's daughter,
Put him in the hold with the Captain's daughter,
Put him in the hold with the Captain's daughter,
Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

What do you do with a drunken sailor,
What do you do with a drunken sailor,
What do you do with a drunken sailor,
Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

Put him in the long boat 'til he's sober
Put him in the long boat 'til he's sober
Put him in the long boat 'til he's sober
Earl-eye in the morning.

[Chorus]

Soak 'im in oil till he sprouts some flippers,
Soak 'im in oil till he sprouts some flippers,
Soak 'im in oil till he sprouts some flippers,
Earl-eye in the morning.

[Chorus]


Pull out the bung and wet him all over
Pull out the bung and wet him all over
Pull out the bung and wet him all over
Earl-eye in the morning.

[Chorus]


Put him the back of the paddy wagon,
Put him the back of the paddy wagon,
Put him the back of the paddy wagon,
Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

Throw him in the lock-up 'til he's sober,
Throw him in the lock-up 'til he's sober,
Throw him in the lock-up 'til he's sober,
Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

What do you do with a drunken sailor,
What do you do with a drunken sailor,
What do you do with a drunken sailor,
Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

What do you do with a drunken sailor,
What do you do with a drunken sailor,
What do you do with a drunken sailor,
Earl-eye in the morning!

[Chorus]

[Denver]

well, if Beck is toning down the rhetoric, then I applaud his patriotism.

and yes, I do think such would be an act of patriotism.

Peace is Patriotic.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs087.snc1/5067_99596490737_567160737_2466035_7415718_s.jpg

:)

Though apparently Sarah Palin is not quite as tactful as Mr Beck. She tends to use gun-language in her rhetoric, I gather as more to help develop her persona as a free, strong, gun-rights, outdoorsy kind of women. But she is being reported yesterday as saying:

Commonsense Conservatives & lovers of America: "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!" Pls see my Facebook page.

Link (http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/10935548053)

I'm sure she just meant not to be discouraged over the health care vote. But still...

[Thunder]

I'd love to "unload" on Palin.

:p

[Brainster]

Not if you are physically assaulting members of congress or their families. That is by definition Sedition.

No, it's assault. I don't have time to look deeply into this, but is there even a law against sedition in the US? I've always been under the impression that became unpopular with the repeal of the Alien and Sedition Acts.

[BenBurch]

No, it's assault. I don't have time to look deeply into this, but is there even a law against sedition in the US? I've always been under the impression that became unpopular with the repeal of the Alien and Sedition Acts.

Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 115

[BenBurch]

Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 18 also applies.

[MattusMaximus]

Agreed.
Painter is playing verbal games.

The fact that Painter and others on the TP/conservative end of things are so un-willing to condemn this stuff is what concerns me. I wonder if any of the Glenn Beck / Rush Limbaugh talkers are going to back off this fiery rhetoric now? Will it take someone high profile getting killed for people to clue in?

To be fair, I have a TP-ish friend who is appalled at this crap. He calls it "thuggish". Dude's a good egg :)

[MattusMaximus]

I heard some Beck on the radio this morning:

Later, he explains why:

Link (http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/38365/)

The first quote sounded like he was taking the high ground. The second quote changed my mind. But, as long as he's trying to diffuse some of the threats and saber rattling, he can come up with whatever reason he wants that he thinks will convince his audience.

Though, I wonder if he's doing this because he realizes he's playing with fire, and has taken his message too far?

Personally, I don't care why. I'm just glad that Beck is starting to clue in that it's getting to the point of being dangerous, and that he has a responsibility to back off the fiery rhetoric and imagery.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Liberal film maker James Cameron has been recorded talking bout killing AGW skeptics (@ 2:56 in the video):

2CMffJcHi58

Now I know AGW skeptics aren't popular around here. But talk of shooting them in the streets is wrong.

[DC]

Liberal film maker James Cameron has been recorded talking bout killing AGW skeptics (@ 2:56 in the video):

2CMffJcHi58

Now I know AGW skeptics aren't popular around here. But talk of shooting them in the streets is wrong.

indeed, dont do it in the street, think about the environment.

[The Painter]

I'm looking for where you condemn the actions and threats of violence, but instead you only condemn those who voted for the reform.

So then you seem to accept the threats, damage, and possible violence as acceptable.

That is a huge leap. I haven't condemned a lot of things. So now I support all those things?? I haven't condemned you, does that mean I support you??

[skip]

I thought Rush Limbaugh left the country. :p

No he'll only get his health care out of the country now..


.

[BenBurch]

No he'll only get his health care out of the country now..


.

In the Dominican Republic (http://www.aegis.com/news/mh/1997/mh970604.html).

[Grizzly Bear]

The first quote sounded like he was taking the high ground. The second quote changed my mind. But, as long as he's trying to diffuse some of the threats and saber rattling, he can come up with whatever reason he wants that he thinks will convince his audience.

Though, I wonder if he's doing this because he realizes he's playing with fire, and has taken his message too far?

He may have taken the second part too far if he's applying it to the democratic party as a whole (I think it reflects more his opinion of the administration), but I can fully understand why he said that. There are people who without exception would like nothing more than to see the party mar itself because it would add to the legitimacy of the opposing party's agenda.

What Beck went on about isn't as simple an issue that limits itself to political parties though.

[Thunder]

Now I know AGW skeptics aren't popular around here. But talk of shooting them in the streets is wrong.

don't you mean AGW pseudo-skeptics?

[Lurker]

When 70% of the people are against this, the congressmen is not a reprensentative of the people either. Just there own political dogma.
This argument always makes me laugh. When I listen to Sean Hannity he goes on and on about a "moral core" and staying true to things you believe in. He endlessly ridicules Clinton and his supposed "finger in the wind" politics to see where his position of the day should be. He would talk about Bush staying true to his beliefs regarding the Iraq war, for example, despite opinion polls showing it to be unpopular.

Fast forward to today and one could certainly make the argument that Democrats are staying true to their beliefs and pushing through health care. Does this get any respect from Sean Hannity? Of course not. Now, all of a sudden the will of the people is being ignored which is suddenly a terrible thing to do.

All you can do laugh.

[Lurker]

Do you ever stop and read your own posts before you hit the button?

For myself, if any person attacks a democrat or a republican elected official, or President Obama or President Bush than I will hold those specific individuals responsible and call for them to be prosecuted and punished to the fullest extent of the law.

And I hope that Hannity, Beck, Levine, Limbaugh, O'Reilly aaaaaannnnd... Olberman, Stewart, Maddow, Colbert and the rest continue to excersize their rights of free speech and the petition of government for a redress of greivances.

Even if they are gonna be dicks about it.


There is a difference between free speech and responsible speech. O'Reilly continually calling Tiller a "baby killer" and saying something has to be done about him can be rather incendiary words for parts of his audience. Knowing that things are approaching levels of violence one might refrain from using free speech and use responsible speech. Nothing wrong with forcefully disagreeing, but when you are using hyperbole in a tense situation you are asking for trouble.

[Thunder]

When 70% of the people are against this, the congressmen is not a reprensentative of the people either. Just there own political dogma.


70% of which people are against what?

his district elected him. he is therefore the representative of his people..until they vote him out.

[Lurker]

I The first quote sounded like he was taking the high ground. The second quote changed my mind. But, as long as he's trying to diffuse some of the threats and saber rattling, he can come up with whatever reason he wants that he thinks will convince his audience.

Though, I wonder if he's doing this because he realizes he's playing with fire, and has taken his message too far?

Yeah, the first quote had me respecting Beck. The second quote destroyed it. I would have thought that you would want to avoid violence and be peaceful because it is the right thing to do and that is how things are done is a democratic society. Unfortunately, Beck reduced it to a political strategy as the sole purpose to avoid violence. No, you don't want to look bad, that's Beck's reason for avoiding violence.

:(

[Shalamar]

That is a huge leap. I haven't condemned a lot of things. So now I support all those things?? I haven't condemned you, does that mean I support you??

Actually, it isn't such a huge leap. You condemned the representatives that voted for the bill in your post, while saying nothing about the violence against them. That is almost a tacit approval of the extemeisys actions.

And you still didn't say anything about the violence. Very telling.

[doobiedoright]

Boehner is the Minority Leader in the United States House of Representatives. His words are appalling and have NO place in a civilized democracy.

John Kerry is a sitting senator and he threatened to kill president Bush!

[Augustine]

It would seem that Tea Party leaders have denounced the threats and/or violence: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/35016.html

Thus, this issue may be considered closed.

[Bob Blaylock]

Coulter is not an elected representative of the people. there is a difference.


Are you saying that elected representatives are better than the rest of us, that it is somehow more OK to threaten and harass a common citizen than to threaten and harass a government official?

As far as I know, Ms. Coulter has not blatantly violated the Constitution of our nation and the very foundation of our society, such as a whole criminal gang of politicians just have.


To be clear, I do not condone this sort of behavior from either side, but you have to expect that when a gang of power-crazed politicians pull an outrageous stunt such as this last “Health Care Reform” scam, against the clearly expressed will of the people that they are supposed to represent, and against the Constitution that they are sworn to uphold, that some people are going to be very unhappy about it. And criminals such as this are *NOT* better than the people that they are supposed to be serving.

[Thunder]

Are you saying that elected representatives are better than the rest of us, that it is somehow more OK to threaten and harass a common citizen than to threaten and harass a government official?


it is a felony to assault a police officer during the service of their duties.

it is also a felony to assault ME, as an employee of the City of New York, during the service of my duties.

it is also a felony to assault a New York City bus driver or train operator, during the service of their duties.

some people are more important than others.

:p

[Thunder]

John Kerry is a sitting senator and he threatened to kill president Bush!

prove it.

[Thunder]

It would seem that Tea Party leaders have denounced the threats and/or violence: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/35016.html

Thus, this issue may be considered closed.

i applaud any and all Tea Party leaders and personnel..for such statements.

i now have some respect for them.

[Bob Blaylock]

some people are more important than others.


I guess this says it all, as far as any understanding that anyone might attempt to have of how you can so horrendously fail to understand how this society is supposed to be structured. You apparently don't understand that our elected representatives are supposed to be our servants, not our masters and rulers. They are *NOT* better, nor more important than the rest of us. Allowing them to believe that they are leads to exactly the sort of arrogant malfeasance that has just taken place.

[Lurker]

Bob:

Why do you consider it unconstitutional?

[Thunder]

You apparently don't understand that our elected representatives are supposed to be our servants, not our masters and rulers. They are *NOT* better, nor more important than the rest of us.

The City of New York, and the State of New York, has decided that it is a greater crime to assault certain government employees, than the average citizen.

Don't like it? Take it up with my city and state government.

I thought you'all believed in state soveirignity and rights?

[joobz]

I guess this says it all, as far as any understanding that anyone might attempt to have of how you can so horrendously fail to understand how this society is supposed to be structured. You apparently don't understand that our elected representatives are supposed to be our servants, not our masters and rulers. They are *NOT* better, nor more important than the rest of us. Allowing them to believe that they are leads to exactly the sort of arrogant malfeasance that has just taken place.

I always thought it was a first among equals thing.

[dudalb]

I guess this says it all, as far as any understanding that anyone might attempt to have of how you can so horrendously fail to understand how this society is supposed to be structured. You apparently don't understand that our elected representatives are supposed to be our servants, not our masters and rulers. They are *NOT* better, nor more important than the rest of us. Allowing them to believe that they are leads to exactly the sort of arrogant malfeasance that has just taken place.

You have Nutjob Glenn Beck, a fellow Mormon, for a sig.
How appropriate.

[dudalb]

Are you saying that elected representatives are better than the rest of us, that it is somehow more OK to threaten and harass a common citizen than to threaten and harass a government official?

As far as I know, Ms. Coulter has not blatantly violated the Constitution of our nation and the very foundation of our society, such as a whole criminal gang of politicians just have.


To be clear, I do not condone this sort of behavior from either side, but you have to expect that when a gang of power-crazed politicians pull an outrageous stunt such as this last “Health Care Reform” scam, against the clearly expressed will of the people that they are supposed to represent, and against the Constitution that they are sworn to uphold, that some people are going to be very unhappy about it. And criminals such as this are *NOT* better than the people that they are supposed to be serving.

Note how he says he does not "condone" such behavior and then spends a whole paragraph basically justifying it under the thin veil of "explaining" it.

[doobiedoright]

prove it.

Maher: You could have went to New Hampshire and killed two birds with one stone.

Kerry: Or, I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.

[The Painter]

Actually, it isn't such a huge leap. You condemned the representatives that voted for the bill in your post, while saying nothing about the violence against them. That is almost a tacit approval of the extremists actions.

And you still didn't say anything about the violence. Very telling.

Show me the violence. Where is it? Shall I show you violence committed by the left that you did not condemn? Shall I show you a movie about the assassination of Bush that you did not condemn? Very telling.


The City of New York, and the State of New York, has decided that it is a greater crime to assault certain government employees, than the average citizen.

Don't like it? Take it up with my city and state government.


The City of New York has also decided that it is a fireable offense to be on the internet screwing around while you are at work for the City. Bloomberg fired a guy for playing solitaire while at work. You better watch yourself.

[Shalamar]

Show me the violence. Where is it? Shall I show you violence committed by the left that you did not condemn? Shall I show you a movie about the assassination of Bush that you did not condemn? Very telling.


I do not like any, and all violence.You.. only condemn the representatives who voted for the health bill, in this thread. You say nothing about the violence, and the actions, and the threats against these same representatives. You support it.

Besides, you would have to show me where others were talking about threats and violence, where I condemned those that the threats were against... but ignored those making the threats.

[fullflavormenthol]

Maher: You could have went to New Hampshire and killed two birds with one stone.

Kerry: Or, I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.

Yeah because there is no context to that at all. :rolleyes:

All I can find is a bunch of conservative blogs taking the same small snippet that you did right there, and the original video seems to be down; but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask that you post the transcript.

[Thunder]

The City of New York has also decided that it is a fireable offense to be on the internet screwing around while you are at work for the City. Bloomberg fired a guy for playing solitaire while at work. You better watch yourself.

are you threatening me?

[Ducky]

are you threatening me?

aCutOI9F8Ws

[Piggy]

Though apparently Sarah Palin is not quite as tactful as Mr Beck. She tends to use gun-language in her rhetoric, I gather as more to help develop her persona as a free, strong, gun-rights, outdoorsy kind of women. But she is being reported yesterday as saying:

Commonsense Conservatives & lovers of America: "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!" Pls see my Facebook page.

She also put a map up on her Facebook page with gun-sight crosshairs over pro-health-reform Democrats' districts.

She defends this as being merely metaphorical.

But come on... Given what's going on, it's grossly irresponsible.

[Thunder]

gun sites on a Congressional district.

what kinda metaphor is that?

[INRM]

This is very bad because every threat, every act of violence will be used by the government to ultimately justify assuming that every conservative, every critic of government policy is effectively a threat to national security.

[Thunder]

This is very bad because every threat, every act of violence will be used by the government to ultimately justify assuming that every conservative, every critic of government policy is effectively a threat to national security.

prove it.

again, is this a prediction..or a wish?

[Redtail]

aCutOI9F8Ws

WIN!

[Meadmaker]

Fast forward to today and one could certainly make the argument that Democrats are staying true to their beliefs and pushing through health care.

Damn those fiends for keeping their campaign promises!

[Grizzly Bear]

No problem with their belief and keeping promises, just the policies they entail.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The City of New York, and the State of New York, has decided that it is a greater crime to assault certain government employees, than the average citizen.

You're confusing the office with the person. The crime isn't assaulting the person, it is in interfering with the governments ability to maintain public order.

There's a subtle but important distinction that's easily confused.

[BenBurch]

You're confusing the office with the person. The crime isn't assaulting the person, it is in interfering with the governments ability to maintain public order.

There's a subtle but important distinction that's easily confused.

On this you are correct.

[fullflavormenthol]

You're confusing the office with the person. The crime isn't assaulting the person, it is in interfering with the governments ability to maintain public order.

There's a subtle but important distinction that's easily confused.
Or the old axiom, "You don't have to respect the person, but you should respect the office."

[Skeptic]

Shows you the difference in seriousness between the left and the right, I guess. The left-wing "revolutionaties" who kept screaming about how the country is a dictatorship and an evil thugocracy and someone should do something and assassinate Bush and Cheney never, of course, dared to actually DO anything themselves.

Sure, sure, it's because they're so law-abiding and sophisticated and wanted LEGAL change. Right. That's just the way that people look for change in insane dictatorships, as the USA under the Bushes was, according to them.

[doobiedoright]

Yeah because there is no context to that at all. :rolleyes:

All I can find is a bunch of conservative blogs taking the same small snippet that you did right there, and the original video seems to be down; but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask that you post the transcript.

Actually sir is was the very begging of the interview.It sure was not hard to find!


http://newsbusters.org/node/8175


After some niceties, Maher asked the senator what he got his wife for her birthday. Kerry said that he took his wife to a lovely retreat in Vermont. Begin transcript:

Maher: You could have went to New Hampshire and killed two birds with one stone.

Kerry: Or, I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.

Maher: Well, speaking of that, speaking of that, do you run into a lot of people these days who are considering how things have gone with the bloopers and practical jokes the past few years have a lot of buyer’s remorse about how they voted in 2004?

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/node/8175#ixzz0jJ6ppEdM


Say what you will sir.There is no place for a sitting senator to say such a thing!

[Meadmaker]

Maher: You could have went to New Hampshire and killed two birds with one stone.

Kerry: Or, I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.

Oh, for Pete's sake, do you really not get what he was talking about? Do you really think that this was, even in jest, a reference to killing the President?

That is so incredibly ridiculous! It is a reference to becoming President, not killing one!

[quixotecoyote]

Oh, for Pete's sake, do you really not get what he was talking about? Do you really think that this was, even in jest, a reference to killing the President?

It's an easy leap to make when you see what passes for "context" from newsbusters.

They paraphrased the transcript leading up to the quote themselves and then gave the actual transcript of everything following it.

[fullflavormenthol]

Actually sir is was the very begging of the interview.It sure was not hard to find!


http://newsbusters.org/node/8175


After some niceties, Maher asked the senator what he got his wife for her birthday. Kerry said that he took his wife to a lovely retreat in Vermont. Begin transcript:

Maher: You could have went to New Hampshire and killed two birds with one stone.

Kerry: Or, I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.

Maher: Well, speaking of that, speaking of that, do you run into a lot of people these days who are considering how things have gone with the bloopers and practical jokes the past few years have a lot of buyer’s remorse about how they voted in 2004?

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/node/8175#ixzz0jJ6ppEdM


Say what you will sir.There is no place for a sitting senator to say such a thing!
Nope. TRANSCRIPT. Directing me to an article from a right wing website doesn't count, because it merely says the same little out of context snippet you did.

Context fail on your part I guess.

[Piggy]

gun sites on a Congressional district.

what kinda metaphor is that?

They're being "targeted" for strong campaigns to unseat them.

Which is true.

But the use of gun sights in the current environment is deplorable. There are other ways of getting her purported message across.

[Piggy]

This is very bad because every threat, every act of violence will be used by the government to ultimately justify assuming that every conservative, every critic of government policy is effectively a threat to national security.

Uh... yeaaaaah.... FEMA's building those concentration camps for that purpose, right?
:rolleyes:

[INRM]

Out of curiousity, has the level of threats against members of Congress increased past average historical levels either during uneventful or controversial times?

I wonder if they're just exaggerating the degree under controversial times

[Piggy]

Out of curiousity, has the level of threats against members of Congress increased past average historical levels either during uneventful or controversial times?

I wonder if they're just exaggerating the degree under controversial times

Are you kidding?

Do you think it's "average" for people to cut gas lines, smash windows, and leave dozens of voicemail threats?

Seriously, you can't be that dense.

[Dorian Gray]

They're being "targeted" for strong campaigns to unseat them.

Which is true.

But the use of gun sights in the current environment is deplorable. There are other ways of getting her purported message across.
She could use the Target logo! That would be a metaphor for "buying" the districts!

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The Connecticut Tea Party and the 9/12ers have condemned the "coffin" protest (http://cincinnatiteaparty.org/blog/?p=556):

From: Justin Binik-Thomas
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 3:29 PM
Subject: weekend protest at driehaus’ house
All

As you all know we are not involved in the protest at Congressman Driehaus’ residence this weekend.
Please do not support this in any way – including a drive by for curiosity.
Please direct media concerns to me if they arise.

You may post to your blogs if you feel appropriate.

I have issued the following statement:
“The Cincinnati Tea Party and The Cincinnati 9/12 Project have been made aware of a protest at the Congressman’s home this weekend. We strongly believe that it is not appropriate to engage an elected official outside of their official capacity. We are urging our members and supporters to show the same respect to his family that we expect for our own.”

Feel free to keep smearing though, something has got to stick eventually.

[tyr_13]

The Connecticut Tea Party and the 9/12ers have condemned the "coffin" protest (http://cincinnatiteaparty.org/blog/?p=556):



Feel free to keep smearing though, something has got to stick eventually.

Head in sand much?

[quixotecoyote]

The Connecticut Tea Party and the 9/12ers have condemned the "coffin" protest (http://cincinnatiteaparty.org/blog/?p=556):



Feel free to keep smearing though, something has got to stick eventually.


Oh, like how the coffin in front of Carnahan's house was part of a protest by the St Louis Tea party chapter whose response to the outrage is that it was on the sidewalk but was misreported as on the lawn, so it's ok?

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/63425
http://stlouisteaparty.com/2010/03/25/wheres-the-coffin-2/

Seriously, do you really think we need to resort to smears to point out how ridiculously frothingly nuts the tea baggers are?

Speculation: If I'm following along correctly, both coffin protests happened on the same weekend. Coincidence or coordination?

[Dorian Gray]

The Connecticut Tea Party and the 9/12ers have condemned the "coffin" protest (http://cincinnatiteaparty.org/blog/?p=556):



Feel free to keep smearing though, something has got to stick eventually.
Wait... you claim the Connecticut Tea Party condemned the protest, yet you provided something that allegedly involved the Cincinnati Tea Party! With such attention to detail, how could anyone hope to penetrate your Maginot Line of reasoning!

[Drysdale]

Heard an interview with one of the protesters with the coffin.
Dont remember where, but according to them the coffin represented the babies killed via abortions, not the congressman.

[Drysdale]

It just boggles my mind that any threats made against GOP's are waved off and laughed at but against the dems it's oooh the horror,the horror.

Maybe I have'nt kept up with it as much as some but all I've heard clips of are people calling them idiots and scum etc. Umm, is that something new?

Actually, one of the clips sounded bogus anyway. It sounded like someone trying badly to portray a southern accent.

Face it, this is politics to create a diversion from that piece of crap of a bill they pushed through.

[BenBurch]

... Speculation: If I'm following along correctly, both coffin protests happened on the same weekend. Coincidence or coordination?

Or Criminal Conspiracy?

[Meadmaker]

Heard an interview with one of the protesters with the coffin.
Dont remember where, but according to them the coffin represented the babies killed via abortions, not the congressman.

While I don't approve of the wave of threats, harassment, and occasional vandalism, I think this should have been obvious.

Anti-abortion protesters often use coffins, tombstones, and plain white crosses as part of the imagery in their protests and displays.

[I Ratant]

E-mail from my rabid rightwingnut buddy...

"A message to all members of Patriotic Resistance

TAKE THIS POLL -
The Liberals have been promoting this all day and are pushing every liberal to take this poll!

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/03/21/decide-health-care-victor..."
.
Do vote, and skew the results. :)

[DavidJames]

It just boggles my mind that any threats made against GOP's are waved off and laughed at...Would you be so kind as to support this with evidence?

[Drysdale]

Would you be so kind as to support this with evidence?

Not gonna spend a lot of time on this but how about this...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=171083

The general tenor of the left leaning posters on that thread as opposed to this one perhaps?

[fullflavormenthol]

Not gonna spend a lot of time on this but how about this...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=171083

The general tenor of the left leaning posters on that thread as opposed to this one perhaps?
Perhaps you should have spent more time, and picked a thread that didn't feature posters from all sides of the spectrum generally making fun a Fox News story.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Wait... you claim the Connecticut Tea Party condemned the protest, yet you provided something that allegedly involved the Cincinnati Tea Party! With such attention to detail, how could anyone hope to penetrate your Maginot Line of reasoning!

Typo on my part. You got me.

BTW, instead of "Tea Party apologist" you should call me "Tea Party Denier". It's more emotionally charged rhetoric.

[DavidJames]

Not gonna spend a lot of time on this but how about this...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=171083

The general tenor of the left leaning posters on that thread as opposed to this one perhaps?You didn't really read that thread and the links did you? If you did you wouldn't have used it as an example

[Sword_Of_Truth]

E-mail from my rabid rightwingnut buddy...

"A message to all members of Patriotic Resistance

TAKE THIS POLL -
The Liberals have been promoting this all day and are pushing every liberal to take this poll!

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/03/21/decide-health-care-victor..."
.
Do vote, and skew the results. :)

It's like a civil war where all the participants are RonPaulbots.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Does Coulter have children?

Yes, she left them all on LV-426.

[Piggy]

While I don't approve of the wave of threats, harassment, and occasional vandalism, I think this should have been obvious.

Anti-abortion protesters often use coffins, tombstones, and plain white crosses as part of the imagery in their protests and displays.

Agreed. The coffin thing doesn't upset me so much, although right now it's pretty touchy.

[BenBurch]

Yes, she left them all on LV-426.

Oh snap.

[Grizzly Bear]

Agreed. The coffin thing doesn't upset me so much, although right now it's pretty touchy.

I'm just glad they expressed it with a metaphor (coffin) rather than pictures of the surgery. Students at my university had a protest last year or the year before in the front part of the campus and I walked past it several times. It wasn't appealing at all to have to see their large posters on full display, even if the protest itself was non-violent, to be honest. :\

[Piggy]

I'm just glad they expressed it with a metaphor (coffin) rather than pictures of the surgery. Students at my university had a protest last year or the year before in the front part of the campus and I walked past it several times. It wasn't appealing at all to have to see their large posters on full display, even if the protest itself was non-violent, to be honest. :\

Hey, truth to power, you know.

You can either stomach it or you can't.

My response to such protests is to say, "Yeah, I get it, and I'm still pro-abortion. Life is harsh. Too bad you can't deal with it. Still doesn't give you the right to tell other people what to do."

[The Painter]

the coffin was used as a prop during a prayer vigil. It was also removed when the left. No violence here. I seem to remember coffins being use at anti war protests. I guess they were OK and anti abortion coffins are bad. Who knew. So anyway, where's all the violence?

Speaking of the war US troop deaths double in Afghanistan (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100327/D9EN48U80.html). Nice job Obama

[thaiboxerken]

A coffin used to represent dead soldiers is hardly comparable to a coffin used to intimidate a person as a veiled death threat.

[MattusMaximus]

It just boggles my mind that any threats made against GOP's are waved off and laughed at but against the dems it's oooh the horror,the horror.

I did read somewhere about a few threats against some GOP congressmen. Where did those come from? Pissed off TP-types because they didn't "do enough to stop Obamacare", or pissed off lefties because they "tried to stop health care reform"? All the unhinged nutwads seem to be using this situation as an excuse to go all freakazoid.

Sheesh - there are some people who just need to take a damn chill pill :rolleyes:

[fullflavormenthol]

Speaking of the war US troop deaths double in Afghanistan (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100327/D9EN48U80.html). Nice job Obama

Because the number of troops in Afghanistan have been increased and they are moving into areas that were neglected so much that the Taliban were able to make strongholds. (It's in the article BTW.)

But please don't let the facts get in the way of partisanship or playing Internet General.

[Newtons Bit]

A coffin used to represent dead soldiers is hardly comparable to a coffin used to intimidate a person as a veiled death threat.

Would it be okay if it was used to represent dead babies?

[thaiboxerken]

Would it be okay if it was used to represent dead babies?

An adult, full-sized coffin represents dead babies?

[Leif Roar]

Would it be okay if it was used to represent dead babies?

The problem isn't the coffin as such, but that it was put up outside of someone's home. That adds certain darker ways of interpreting it.

Now, I'm quite willing to believe that the people who used the coffin in their protest didn't actually mean it as a threat, and merely used it out of thoughtlessness and as a habit from protests in public, impersonal venues, but they really should have thought about how it might be read.

Context matter and when you personalise a protest -- such as by protesting outside a particular politican's home -- you need to be extra careful in how you shape and communicate your message. Putting up a mock gallows on the steps of the Hall of Justice as a protest against the death penalty is one thing. Putting it up outside someone's home is another.

[Dorian Gray]

Typo on my part. You got me.

BTW, instead of "Tea Party apologist" you should call me "Tea Party Denier". It's more emotionally charged rhetoric.
That's WAYYYYYYYY more than a typo - that's getting it completely wrong.

Speaking of getting it completely wrong, why would I call you Tea Party Denier? You're not denying the Tea Party.

[Dorian Gray]

the coffin was used as a prop during a prayer vigil. It was also removed when the left. No violence here. I seem to remember coffins being use at anti war protests. I guess they were OK and anti abortion coffins are bad. Who knew. So anyway, where's all the violence?

Speaking of the war US troop deaths double in Afghanistan (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100327/D9EN48U80.html). Nice job Obama
It's either "anti-war demonstrator" or "war protester" - "anti-war protester" is someone who is for the war.

[quixotecoyote]

It's either "anti-war demonstrator" or "war protester" - "anti-war protester" is someone who is for the war.

meh, I've seen it both ways.

An anti-war protester can be a protester who is anti-war.

[Thunder]

Speaking of the war US troop deaths double in Afghanistan (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100327/D9EN48U80.html). Nice job Obama

and this is Obama's fault...how?

did Obama start this war?

would you prefer he just "cut and run"?

[Meadmaker]

The problem isn't the coffin as such, but that it was put up outside of someone's home. That adds certain darker ways of interpreting it.

Coffin or no coffin, I don't think they should be at his home. The existence of an angry mob, even if they are being polite, outside of someone's personal residence, cannot lead to anything good.

Then, throw in an angry mob carrying a coffin, and one could be forgiven for misintepreting the symbolism. That's especially true since the whole abortion angle was purely phony and just for show. The GOP was upset because they thought they could use abortion as a wedge issue and separate off enough Democrats to block passage, but it didn't work.

[Thunder]

Coffin or no coffin, I don't think they should be at his home. The existence of an angry mob, even if they are being polite, outside of someone's personal residence, cannot lead to anything good.


its called harrassment. why should Reid's wife, children, and grand-children, have to deal with this crap?

protest at his local offices. protest in D.C.

but protesting with thousands of people at his damn home, is harrassment.

what crime has the man committed? what crime is he accused of?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

That's WAYYYYYYYY more than a typo - that's getting it completely wrong.

Actually, it's quite easy to confuse Connecticut with Cincinnati when your mind is on three things at once and you're dashing off a quick response.

But it was definitely an error on my part and I appreciate you pointing it out top me.

Speaking of getting it completely wrong, why would I call you Tea Party Denier? You're not denying the Tea Party.

9/11 deniers, as the conspiracists are often called, don't deny that there was a 9/11 as their fellow travelers the Holocaust Deniers do with that historical tragedy. But they do deny pretty much everything about 9/11, what happened, how it happened, who did it and why.

Just as I deny completely that the Tea Party movement consists entirely of a previously undiscovered species of severly inbred cannibalistic necrophiliac pedophile proto-hominids with barely sufficient higher brain capacity to load and operate modern small arms and tune in country music stations on car radios.

[Newtons Bit]

its called harrassment. why should Reid's wife, children, and grand-children, have to deal with this crap?

protest at his local offices. protest in D.C.

but protesting with thousands of people at his damn home, is harrassment.

what crime has the man committed? what crime is he accused of?

Getting elected in a democracy ;)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Harry Reid supporters throwing eggs and making threats:

-t7IHaHJamE

"Get him outta here, or I'm going to jail today"

[quixotecoyote]

Just as I deny completely that the Tea Party movement consists entirely of a previously undiscovered species of severly inbred cannibalistic necrophiliac pedophile proto-hominids with barely sufficient higher brain capacity to load and operate modern small arms and tune in country music stations on car radios.

Eh, about 4/9. I think you're beating your average.:wackyspinny:

[thaiboxerken]

Harry Reid supporters throwing eggs and making threats:

This is not good behavior. Tell me, how much violent rhetoric from the left-leaning politicians incited this?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

This is not good behavior.

Kudos to you for recognizing and acknowledging such.

Tell me, how much violent rhetoric from the left-leaning politicians incited this?

None of it.

The same way that nothing that Sarah Palin said encouraged rock throwers on the republican side. You and I both know that the ACLU talking about "blowing up" military courts, Obamas "bringing guns to knife fights" and Sarah Palins tweets were never intended to be taken absolutely literally.

[INRM]

I'm not pleased with the way the teabaggers are behaving, because their behavior gives the government more ammunition to justify taking away the privacy rights, and Constitutional protections from Americans.

[BenBurch]

I'm not pleased with the way the teabaggers are behaving, because their behavior gives the government more ammunition to justify taking away the privacy rights, and Constitutional protections from Americans.

Its also going to ensure a second Obama term.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Its also going to ensure a second Obama term.

Yes, in the exact same way that THIS (http://zombietime.com/sf_anti-war_rally_3-20-2010/) guaranteed John McCain the White House (except for the part where it didn't).

[quixotecoyote]

Yes, in the exact same way that THIS (http://zombietime.com/sf_anti-war_rally_3-20-2010/) guaranteed John McCain the White House (except for the part where it didn't).
Yeah, once again, that's the more or less constant nuttiness in SF that's been going on since forever.

We're seeing a major rise of wingnuttery and its embrace by the establishment.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Yeah, once again, that's the more or less constant nuttiness in SF that's been going on since forever.

Except for the parts that occurred in Los Angeles (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2010/03/troofers-march-in-la.html) and Washington (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2010/03/jons-excellent-campout.html).

We're seeing a major rise of wingnuttery and its embrace by the establishment.

The other side always looks nutty in comparison to ones own beliefs and biases.

[Captain.Sassy]

Yes, in the exact same way that THIS (http://zombietime.com/sf_anti-war_rally_3-20-2010/) guaranteed John McCain the White House (except for the part where it didn't).

Yes yes excellent comparison. Of particular relevance to your Teabagger analogy is the way in which Democrats were falling over each other in a race to ingratiate themselves with these folks.

[INRM]

BenBurch,

It could be used to his favor...

[quixotecoyote]

The other side always looks nutty in comparison to ones own beliefs and biases.

"The Tea Party movement, in general, reflects a range of views and behaviors which I find reasonable, even if I do not always agree with them."

Would you, Sword_Of_Truth, seriously consider agreeing with that statement?

I sure wouldn't say that about the protesters featured in the zombietime blog, you want to both defend the tea partiers and compare them to the loons.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

"The Tea Party movement, in general, reflects a range of views and behaviors which I find reasonable, even if I do not always agree with them."

Would you, Sword_Of_Truth, seriously consider agreeing with that statement?

Sure. Me and half the USA (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/march_2010/most_say_tea_party_has_better_understanding_of_iss ues_than_congress).

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 52% of U.S. voters believe the average member of the Tea Party movement has a better understanding of the issues facing America today than the average member of Congress. Only 30% believe that those in Congress have a better understanding of the key issues facing the nation.

If you're one of those who has spent so much energy painting the Tea Party as cartoon supervillians that you've begun to actually believe it, you may feel it's crazy of me to say that.

[quixotecoyote]

What do you suppose the relevance of the number of people who believe something provides?

It's still a bat **** crazy movement.

From the front of the arizona tea party site:
http://arizonateaparty.com/codeblue/obama_care_health_card_10pp_front_back.pdf

From the front of the Atlanta tea party's site:

Help US Speak OUT AGAINST: Unconstitutional & Unfair Taxation; The International Banking cartel known as the Federal Reserve System; Large, Out of Control Government; Bailouts of Banks & Corporations; Monumental Deficits; Elected Officials who support Socialistic Government and forced re-distribution of wealth; Lack of strong Immigration Policy; Nationalization of Banks, Corporations, Health Care, and more.

http://www.atlantateaparty.net/
From the front of of the Washington tea party's site:
According to Andrew Breitbart (http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/02/17/clinton-plotting-tea-party-counterattack/), Bill Clinton and James Carville are planning personal 'deep opposition research on 7-8 national leaders' active in the tea party movement.

It is un-American and morally wrong for a former president to attack Americans who have gotten involved in the political system.

It was Thomas Jefferson who said, "when the people fear the government there is tyranny".
From the front of the Tallahassee Tea party's site comes the Green Ink Brigade's Internet Auxiliary:

If you can't go to D.C. on April 15, 2010; join the www.wethepeoplerally.us (http://www.wethepeoplerally.us/) at your state capitol or local venue. I founded Tallahassee Tea Party (http://taxteaparty.com/tallahasseeteaparty)in 2007 to STOP EXCESSIVE: taxation, political correctness, entitleMINTS, handouts, bailouts and government regulation. During 2007 & 2008, I set up TEA PARTY webpages for six Florida cities. Excessive: TAXATION & POLITICAL CORRECTNESS ARE DANGEROUS AND EXPENSIVE. Pace Allen, FL Attorney & CPA (http://www.paceallen.us/), Founder: Tallahassee Tea Party (http://taxteaparty.com/tallahasseeteaparty)and www.taxteaparty.com (http://www.taxteaparty.com/) on May 17, 2007.
See Links to: 11 yr old's TEA PARTY SPEECH, AMERICA'S FREEDOM HAS ONE MILLION INTERNET VIEWS. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgkk57Gh18c&feature=player_profilepage) http://www.912projecttallahassee.com/ Natl Tea Party Hubs: www.taxdayteaparty.com (http://www.taxdayteaparty.com/) & www.teapartypatriots.org (http://www.teapartypatriots.org/) LocalHub www.tallahasseeteaparty.com (http://www.tallahasseeteaparty.com/) to ee Events, click Davy Crockett listened to a voter; then followed our US Constitution. (http://taxteaparty.com/davycrockett) Today's politicians can do the same. Pace


http://www.taxteaparty.com/

From the front of the Olympia Tea Party's site ("With TRICARE Prime, most health care will come from a military treatment facility (MTF), along with the TRICARE contracted Civilian Medical Providers called Preferred Provider Network (PPN)."-http://www.military.com/benefits/tricare/tricare-prime/tricare-prime-overview):
I would like to say that I'm opposed to "Obamacare" and that I don't like the way this is being forced upon the people of this country. I'm 51 years old and I don't think I've ever seen an Administration and Congressional majority that have acted as arrogantly and thumbed their noses at the will of the American people. This is not going to cut the deficit. There are so many lies and smoke and mirror stuff going on with this whole mess that it is sickening. I'm a military retiree and I have TRICARE Prime for my health insurance. I'm very pleased with that. I don't want a single payer government run health care system. And please don't tell me that is not going to happen.

http://www.olympiateaparty.com/
From the Roanoke Tea Party Website:

The Constitution matters. As big of a deal as the health care bill is, it pales in comparison to the long term negative affect of allowing this law to stand. Because if the Federal Government can compel you to purchase something against your will with the threat of fine or imprisonment, that destroys the last vestige of constraint on the Federal government. It destroys the very contract that we have between the government and the governed.

[quixotecoyote]

The above quotes taken from the first 2 pages of googleing 'state tea party website'

People who chose to earnestly take up the Tea Party moniker are generally not informed, misinformed, or so partisan the facts don't matter. This is to the degree that so far every non-parody organization I've found associated with the Tea Party has this sort of over-hyped under-supported ******** right up in plain view.

This is the general view of the tea party, taken from listening to what the tea party is saying.

That you and your half of the nation finds this drivel reasonable says far more about what you're willing to accept when it supports your side than it does about the Tea Party.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Your statement, which you asked if I would agree with was:

"The Tea Party movement, in general, reflects a range of views and behaviors which I find reasonable, even if I do not always agree with them."
(Emphasis added)

90% of what you just listed is pretty mainstream. No government handouts for big corporations, no high taxes, no intrusive regulations... all pretty tame stuff.

That stuff at the top about the Federal reserve is a little loopy. But as you yourself said "I do not always agree with them".

[quixotecoyote]

That stuff at the top about the Federal reserve is a little loopy. But as you yourself said "I do not always agree with them".

Yes, but I also asked if you thought the general range of beliefs was reasonable, even if you don't agree with them.

Federal reserve conspiracy theories, Bill Clinton instigating tyranny through espionage, "keep government's hands off my medicare", "the last vestige of federal restraint is about to snap and destroy the constitution."

These are the kinds of thing the Tea Party organizations put up on their websites. This is their general range of beliefs.

So.

Whether or not you agree, do you think it's reasonable to think the Federal Reserve is a cabal of international bankers out to control the economy?

Whether or not you agree, do you think it's reasonable to think Bill Clinton is an agent of tyranny through espionage?

Whether or not you agree, do you think it's reasonable to want government out of health care because you like your government health care too much?

Whether or not you agree, do you think it's reasonable to think we're a health care bill away from the end of the constitution and unrestrained government power?

Yes, they also tend to believe all the normal, conservative, "big government bad, taxes bad, regulation bad" stuff. If that's all they were about, there wouldn't be the Tea Parties. There'd be the normal republican business-as-usual activists.

The Tea Party is characterized by these conspiracy theories and nutbaggery that they plaster all over their websites, carry on signs, shout through bullhorns, and that you want to pretend is simply a point of disagreement between you and an otherwise reasonable movement.

********.

[Piggy]

90% of what you just listed is pretty mainstream.

It's only "mainstream" if you're already in right-wing conspiracy space.

[Chris Hegarty]

Eh, the Tea Party movement's just gained a lot of traction because the great unwashed is mad about something. And whenever the proletariat gets mad about something, rich people find a way to co-opt it into something weird. That's just my relatively basic understanding of this.

[dudalb]

It's always the other guys who are crazy........

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Whether or not you agree, do you think it's reasonable to think the Federal Reserve is a cabal of international bankers out to control the economy?

Already stated above the Federal Reserve stuff was loopy.

Whether or not you agree, do you think it's reasonable to think Bill Clinton is an agent of tyranny through espionage?

I wouldn't be surprised if Bill Clinton came out publicly against the critics of the administration his is involved with. Would you?

As for the Clinton being "un-american" or "evil" part, that's just rhetoric they learned from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/harry_reid_protesters_evil-mongers/) and Speaker Nancy Pelosi (http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/unamerican-attacks-cant-derail-health-care-debate-.html).

Whether or not you agree, do you think it's reasonable to want government out of health care because you like your government health care too much?

I've seen government mismanagement of health care on a regular basis. It's not unreasonable to want to reduce government involvement in ones health care.

Whether or not you agree, do you think it's reasonable to think we're a health care bill away from the end of the constitution and unrestrained government power?

The US health care bill is unprecedented. But precedents can be overturned. Time will tell how bad this gets.

Yes, they also tend to believe all the normal, conservative, "big government bad, taxes bad, regulation bad" stuff. If that's all they were about, there wouldn't be the Tea Parties. There'd be the normal republican business-as-usual activists.

Wrong.

Bush didn't get to 20% approval ratings by pissing off only democrats. He pissed off half the republican party as well, largely with his reckless spending. Along comes Obama and he quadruples Bush's deficits. America is facing a very real debt crisis. Within ten years of his inauguration, Obama will have doubled the national debt. The national debt will have gone from it's current 40% of GDP to more than 90% by 2020. The government is spending 200 billion a month more than it takes in, 60 billion on debt servicing alone. Americas AAA credit rating is at risk and if that gets downgraded, interest rates go up, the problem gets even worse. Obama, Pelosi and Reid inexplicably can't seem to help themselves. Either they can't bring it under control or they won't.

And yet you seem to seriously believe that the issue that turned republicans against their president won't result in a huge public outcry when the next guy makes it worse by an order of magnitude.

The only people who are blinded by the color of Barack Obamas skin are his supporters. Every time you call someone who is concerned about the state of the nations finances and how much his grandchildren will have to pay a racist, you don't bring him a micron closer to your side. You just piss him off.

The Tea Party is characterized by these conspiracy theories and nutbaggery

No they aren't. You admitted yourself that you had to cherry pick those four sites from two pages of results. And even then you could filter out the mainstream core issues that the all of the tea partiers agree on.

That photograph that you love so much of the yellow signs with the handguns shows more than you see. It shows a crowd that easily well into 4 digits.Only two of whom are carrying asinine signs. You should consider what the other thousand or so people feel before you paint them all as racist would be killers. Already 52% of the country thinks the tea party knows more than the democrat controlled congress. Clearly the smear campaign ain't working.

Do you want to keep pushing and see if you can make it 60% by election day?

[tyr_13]

It's always the other guys who are crazy........

But they are spouting a lot of crazy, wrong, violent nonsense. It doesn't change a thing that there is a fringe element on the left as well. It isn't nearly as loud right now, which is why we aren't talking about them.

It isn't always 'the other guys'. The Golden Middle is a fallacy as well.

[Grizzly Bear]

But they are spouting a lot of crazy, wrong, violent nonsense. It doesn't change a thing that there is a fringe element on the left as well. It isn't nearly as loud right now, which is why we aren't talking about them.

It isn't always 'the other guys'. The Golden Middle is a fallacy as well.

You need a sitting president that's of the opposite party to those being vocal. :|

Anyway that's what I've seen since paying attention to any form of politics since the Clinton era.

[quixotecoyote]

Already stated above the Federal Reserve stuff was loopy.

good

I wouldn't be surprised if Bill Clinton came out publicly against the critics of the administration his is involved with. Would you?

As for the Clinton being "un-american" or "evil" part, that's just rhetoric they learned from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/harry_reid_protesters_evil-mongers/) and Speaker Nancy Pelosi (http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/unamerican-attacks-cant-derail-health-care-debate-.html).


I've seen government mismanagement of health care on a regular basis. It's not unreasonable to want to reduce government involvement in ones health care.


The US health care bill is unprecedented. But precedents can be overturned. Time will tell how bad this gets.


You've completely restated and reframed the positions taken by the tea partiers to make them seem less stupid.

Yes, if we change what they're saying to something less stupid, it seems like they're saying less stupid things.

Congratulations.



Bush didn't get to 20% approval ratings by pissing off only democrats. He pissed off half the republican party as well, largely with his reckless spending. Along comes Obama and he quadruples Bush's deficits. America is facing a very real debt crisis. Within ten years of his inauguration, Obama will have doubled the national debt. The national debt will have gone from it's current 40% of GDP to more than 90% by 2020. The government is spending 200 billion a month more than it takes in, 60 billion on debt servicing alone. Americas AAA credit rating is at risk and if that gets downgraded, interest rates go up, the problem gets even worse. Obama, Pelosi and Reid inexplicably can't seem to help themselves. Either they can't bring it under control or they won't.I'm not going to double check your figures and just assume you spun them to the extent you spun the tea party quotes and not worry about them.

You spend in a depression. That's how you get out of the depression. The test will be if he balances the budget once the economy is back in the black.

And yet you seem to seriously believe that the issue that turned republicans against their president won't result in a huge public outcry when the next guy makes it worse by an order of magnitude.Well, I didn't see any Tea Parties forming under Bush despite this alleged "huge outcry."

The only people who are blinded by the color of Barack Obamas skin are his supporters. Every time you call someone who is concerned about the state of the nations finances and how much his grandchildren will have to pay a racist, you don't bring him a micron closer to your side. You just piss him off.
My but you're sensitive. I never even mentioned racism. This is a crackpot movement even before considering the swarms of racists that rally to the banner.




No they aren't. You admitted yourself that you had to cherry pick those four sites from two pages of results. And even then you could filter out the mainstream core issues that the all of the tea partiers agree on.spin spin twist twist

I grabbed the first four sites off the first two pages that I was sure were actually tea party sites instead of some guy blogging about the events. You turn this into cherry picking results.

You find a tea party website, I'll find them putting conspiracy theories and nutbaggery up for anyone to see.


That photograph that you love so much of the yellow signs with the handguns shows more than you see. It shows a crowd that easily well into 4 digits.Only two of whom are carrying asinine signs. You should consider what the other thousand or so people feel before you paint them all as racist would be killers. Already 52% of the country thinks the tea party knows more than the democrat controlled congress. Clearly the smear campaign ain't working.

Do you want to keep pushing and see if you can make it 60% by election day?Photograph? I didn't mention any photograph. You're raving again.

Once again. That a lot of people are willing to go along with a movement that's hip dip in the fed-reserve conspiracies, one bill away from tyranny, red baiting, nutbaggery says more about the people who go along with it than the movement.

Oh, and from the taxdayteaparty.org

One of the characteristics of “progressivism” is the spinning of what one says - to say whatever one wants it to sayI never knew you were one of us, SoT

eta: Had another thought. You don't get to wave away an organization's craziness because it also follows along with standard middle-of-the-road beliefs. The John Birch Society goes "illegal immigration-boo!, rah-rah-constitutionalism!, socialism-boo!" right along with your average republican, but I doubt (watch me be wrong) that you'd deny the JBS was/is a nest of kookery.