Fair and balanced = conservative viewpoint

[Spindrift]

I was having a conversation with a casual acquaintence. In the past we never talked much more than sports. I kind of had the sense was right leaning but we'd never really talked politics before. We were talking about the mini-series "The Pacific". At the end of the second part the marines are back on a ship and a galley hand tells them that back home everyone knows what Guadalcanal is, it's on all the front pages and that they're heroes. Well he then comments, "Nowadays, the only place you'd hear about Guadalcanal would be on Fox News. They're the only fair and balanced news source there is." I was taken aback because he said it very matter of fact like. There was no vitriol, it was like he was saying "Nowadays, they have sliced bread." I then asked him does Fox ever say anything he disagrees with? He said sure, they always have some "liberal idiot" on blathering about something stupid. What about the Fox people themselves? Do you ever disagree with them? "Oh, no of course not." At that point I said, "Wow I can't believe Kansas lost to Northern Iowa in the NCAAs.

A bit of a round about way of my realization that conservatives believe "Fair and balanced" equals a conservative viewpoint. I always thought they at least thought that both sides of an argument are presented by Fox, but that doesn't appear to be what they care about. I guess they take it as "balanced with all the other liberal media outlets", not balanced within their own presentation.

[Ziggurat]

A bit of a round about way of my realization that conservatives believe "Fair and balanced" equals a conservative viewpoint.

From a sample size of (wait for it)... one.

I always thought they

Your experience indicates what your friend (single) thinks. It doesn't indicate what "they" (plural) think.

[Spindrift]

From a sample size of (wait for it)... one.



Your experience indicates what your friend (single) thinks. It doesn't indicate what "they" (plural) think.

Sorry, I should have expanded. On thinking about conversations with other conservatives (I live in a very Republican town) it fits.

I never said it was a scientific study, but I can't think of any other plausible reason that anyone would believe that FoxNews is fair or balanced.

[tyr_13]

Sorry, I should have expanded. On thinking about conversations with other conservatives (I live in a very Republican town) it fits.

I never said it was a scientific study, but I can't think of any other plausible reason that anyone would believe that FoxNews is fair or balanced.

Because they say so. Aren't you paying attention?

[quixotecoyote]

Msnbc!

Cnn!

Ha!

[Richard Masters]

...
A bit of a round about way of my realization that conservatives believe "Fair and balanced" equals a conservative viewpoint. I always thought they at least thought that both sides of an argument are presented by Fox, but that doesn't appear to be what they care about. I guess they take it as "balanced with all the other liberal media outlets", not balanced within their own presentation.

A conservative family member of mine believes Fox is fair and balanced for the same reason. It's ridiculous.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I know lots of liberals who feel the same way about MSNBC.

[Redtail]

Is the actual news on Fox not "fair and balanced"? What about MSNBC?

[Ziggurat]

I know lots of liberals who feel the same way about MSNBC.

Bingo. Everyone thinks they are fair and balanced. So if a news source matches their perspective, the news source must be fair and balanced too. That's really got nothing to do with conservatives, that's just human nature.

[Juniversal]

I would say CNN is the most moderate of the major news networks. But Fox definitely tips the scale with their bias imo...

[quarky]

Well, I'm not well balanced.

Yet, lying bastards are lying bastards.

[Calculon]

Is the actual news on Fox not "fair and balanced"? What about MSNBC?

MSNBC doesn't have the tag line "Fair and Balanced"...and I doubt Dylan Ratigan, Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann ever claim, to be objective..they are rather open in their opinions.

But compare the "regular" news portion of MSNBC vs FOX (or CNN) and see how that appears.

To me, FOX is right wing and corporate while CNN and MSNBC are simply corporate. If you want left wing news, you have to watch Amy Goodman, lol.

[Rolfe]

Bingo. Everyone thinks they are fair and balanced. So if a news source matches their perspective, the news source must be fair and balanced too. That's really got nothing to do with conservatives, that's just human nature.


Bingo, I think that's it.

I remember a government employee whistleblower (sorry, ages ago, can't remember her name) who leaked stuff to the Guardian newspaper. She declared she'd done that because the Guardian was the only unbiassed, middle-of-the-road newspaper there was.

The Guardian is well known to be as left-wing as you can get before you hit the actual Socialist Worker.

Rolfe.

[Almo]

Bingo. Everyone thinks they are fair and balanced. So if a news source matches their perspective, the news source must be fair and balanced too. That's really got nothing to do with conservatives, that's just human nature.

Sweeping generalization mistake. I know MSNBC has a liberal slant, and I know Fox has a conservative slant. I lean liberal myself. If something matches my perspective, I'm aware that it probably has a liberal slant.

[Lurker]

A quick example:

When I have CNN on in the morning I get pretty much straight news. When I switch over to Fox & Friends I get unrelenting attacks on Obama and Democrats.

When I watch the business segments of CNN and Fox it is along a similar vein. On CNN I get business news. On Fox, Cavuto cannot help including his opinion and including non-business stories as long as they reflect poorly on Obama and Democrats.

I see no comparison between the two in their level of bias. I do not watch MSNBC so cannot comment on that.

[Spindrift]

MSNBC doesn't have the tag line "Fair and Balanced"...and I doubt Dylan Ratigan, Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann ever claim, to be objective..they are rather open in their opinions.

But compare the "regular" news portion of MSNBC vs FOX (or CNN) and see how that appears.

To me, FOX is right wing and corporate while CNN and MSNBC are simply corporate. If you want left wing news, you have to watch Amy Goodman, lol.

Exactly. FoxNews is the only one to claim fair and balanced. I would defintely agree that MSNBC is left leaning, but they don't claim to be fair and balanced, do they? I don't watch CNN much, but from what I've seen, it appears to be fairly middle of the road.

Why can't conservatives just admit reality, that Fox News is conservatively biased? Of course if they did that, then they couldn't complain about any other media outlet's liberal bias, could they?

[Spindrift]

Bingo. Everyone thinks they are fair and balanced. So if a news source matches their perspective, the news source must be fair and balanced too. That's really got nothing to do with conservatives, that's just human nature.

Wrong, I'm a liberal and I'm quite aware when something is presented with a liberal bias. It's not that hard to recognize the bias either way, unless you've got blinders on. It's one of the reasons Olberman irks me, he goes off the deep end too often and just rants about conservatives because they're conservatives.

[Meadmaker]

I know lots of liberals who feel the same way about MSNBC.


I know lots of liberals, and none of them feel that way about MSNBC. We all know it's biased. Everyone knows it's biased. They don't pretend otherwise.

If they changed the network to Fox Opinions, no one would complain.

[dudalb]

Fox news has a conservative Bias.
And I have other breaking news;The Sun came up this Morning.

[Kodiak]

I know lots of liberals who feel the same way about MSNBC.

Exactly right! I don't think FOX News is saying that they are 50% right and 50% left, 50% GOP and 50% Dem.

I think that FOX News is of the opinion that there is a leftist/Dem slant to all the other TV news, and that FOX News has made TV news as a whole "fair and balanced" by their obvious rightist/GOP bias.

If that is true, then all the leftist TV news stations are just as "fair and balanced" as FOX News. The only difference may be that FOX News holds up its end single handedly...

[Ziggurat]

Wrong, I'm a liberal and I'm quite aware when something is presented with a liberal bias.

So you're smarter than your friends. That's got nothing to do with them being conservative or you being liberal. And we only have your word for you being aware of liberal bias, I'm sure your friends would say that they can spot conservative bias. I suppose you could argue that my use of "everyone" was too broad, that there are exceptions, and I wouldn't actually disagree. But I still don't see how this is a conservative phenomenon, and not simply part of human nature.

[Juniversal]

A quick example:

When I have CNN on in the morning I get pretty much straight news. When I switch over to Fox & Friends I get unrelenting attacks on Obama and Democrats.

When I watch the business segments of CNN and Fox it is along a similar vein. On CNN I get business news. On Fox, Cavuto cannot help including his opinion and including non-business stories as long as they reflect poorly on Obama and Democrats.

I see no comparison between the two in their level of bias. I do not watch MSNBC so cannot comment on that.Omg Obama bowed to a foreign leader!!! OMG Obama only uses mustard on his burgers!!! How elitist!!!! OMG Obama says America's not a Christian Country!!! How anti-American!!! Obama is a Socialist/Communist!!! Obama hates white people!!! Kids sing an innocent song about Obama during black history month? Indoctornation!!! Ahhhh...


John Stewart did a great piece on this last year. Nobody (except those on Fox News) will deny they're biased. They didn't create bias and attack politics but they surely perfected it.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-october-29-2009/for-fox-sake-

[joobz]

I know lots of liberals, and none of them feel that way about MSNBC. We all know it's biased. Everyone knows it's biased. They don't pretend otherwise.

If they changed the network to Fox Opinions, no one would complain.

I agree. None of my friends who are liberal even make a point to watch MSNBC. most get their news from NPR. Now, one could state many shows on NPR have a liberal bias, but the news programs are pretty good.

[Tricky]

I know lots of liberals, and none of them feel that way about MSNBC. We all know it's biased. Everyone knows it's biased. They don't pretend otherwise.
You haven't met Ms. Tricky then. She thinks Olberman and Maddow are God and Goddess, and theat everything they say is true and well-researched. She doesn't like it when I call Olberman the "Rush Limbaugh of the Left". But for most of the self-identified liberals on these boards, you are correct.

[Number Six]

I agree. None of my friends who are liberal even make a point to watch MSNBC. most get their news from NPR. Now, one could state many shows on NPR have a liberal bias, but the news programs are pretty good.

I'd say the opinion shows on MSNBC (Maddow, Olbermann) are as slanted left as are the opinion shows on Fox (Hannity, O'Reilly) are slanted right. But the difference comes in everything else. A fair percentage of the time I watch MSNBC (weekday evening and any time on weekends) MSNBC isn't even news at all much less biased news. OTOH during those same times when I turn on Fox it is pretty much always news and/or politics, and almost always slanted right in their presentation of it.

ETA: I used to watch (for my newstalk shows that is) pretty much equal Fox, MSNBC and CNN. Now I'm mostly CNN. I watched Fox for years with no problem but what they've done to my aging parents, i.e., turning previously non-political, non-hating, gentle people into Sean Hannity clones, is just too much. I've quit watching Fox because of the negative associations I have with them. And I've cut back a good bit on MSNBC too (for newstalk I mean...the Dateline repeats, etc, are still good). My main TV news now is AC360 on CNN at 10. I just get tired of the professional wrestling approach to it that Fox and MSNBC takes.

[cornsail]

Is the actual news on Fox not "fair and balanced"? What about MSNBC?

There's actual news on Fox (or any cable news channel for that matter)?

[Nickolai_88]

I'd say the opinion shows on MSNBC (Maddow, Olbermann) are as slanted left as are the opinion shows on Fox (Hannity, O'Reilly) are slanted right. But the difference comes in everything else. A fair percentage of the time I watch MSNBC (weekday evening and any time on weekends) MSNBC isn't even news at all much less biased news. OTOH during those same times when I turn on Fox it is pretty much always news and/or politics, and almost always slanted right in their presentation of it.

I disagree even after watching MSNBC for the 1st time today I was watching a segment under what appeared to be the news portion where they were talking about a recent Sarah Palin rally. They invited 2 gests to be interviewed, one a conservative talk show host and one a Liberal reporter. The question posed to the conservative was, "Is Sarah Palin smart, or is it just rhetoric" or something along those lines i forget exactly. But it did make me go, "What an inappropriate un-necessary question. Clearly Bias question."

[Ohmer]

You haven't met Ms. Tricky then. She thinks Olberman and Maddow are God and Goddess, and theat everything they say is true and well-researched. She doesn't like it when I call Olberman the "Rush Limbaugh of the Left". But for most of the self-identified liberals on these boards, you are correct.

This sounds very familiar. My live in girlfriend isn't quite that bad, but she has her moments. I actually like Olberman and Maddow, but I refer to their shows as "liberal propaganda", just so she doesn't forget. I also think it is good practice for a skeptic to turn a critical eye toward people that you mostly agree with. It's more difficult and in a lot of ways it's more important.

[quixotecoyote]

I disagree even after watching MSNBC for the 1st time today I was watching a segment under what appeared to be the news portion where they were talking about a recent Sarah Palin rally. They invited 2 gests to be interviewed, one a conservative talk show host and one a Liberal reporter. The question posed to the conservative was, "Is Sarah Palin smart, or is it just rhetoric" or something along those lines i forget exactly. But it did make me go, "What an inappropriate un-necessary question. Clearly Bias question."

I know! What a blatant offer to talk about how smart Palin is.

Damn Righties ;)

[Spindrift]

So you're smarter than your friends.
No all of them, just the conservative ones. :biggrin:

[Sword_Of_Truth]

There's actual news on Fox (or any cable news channel for that matter)?

Yes, Fox does do actual news. I viewed a sample of Fox reporting and found no errors and little, if any, opinion forced on the viewer.

6hEcYJY8hp0

[Redtail]

There's actual news on Fox (or any cable news channel for that matter)?

Yes. Things happen, and they report them. The attitude of the OP's friend "Nowadays, the only place you'd hear about Guadalcanal would be on Fox News." is just insane. It's like someone saying "If there was a terrorist attack on America tomorrow MSNBC wouldn't report on it because it would look bad for Obama." or, "If Sahara Palin was arrested for having 5oz of weed on her Fox would keep it quiet."

Yes the commentary has left/right bias, and on those shows or panels they bring up points to preach to the choir, but the news is just the news.

[Fishstick]

The sad part is It took me a while to realize that video was a parody. Poe's law is a bitch.

ETA: "Liberals plot to take back America"

[Virus]

Everyone thinks their view is fair and balanced.

[Lurker]

Everyone thinks their view is fair and balanced.

Dude, quite being so damn partisan!

*I* am the epitome of fair and balanced. ;)

[Lurker]

Omg Obama bowed to a foreign leader!!! OMG Obama only uses mustard on his burgers!!! How elitist!!!! OMG Obama says America's not a Christian Country!!! How anti-American!!! Obama is a Socialist/Communist!!! Obama hates white people!!! Kids sing an innocent song about Obama during black history month? Indoctornation!!! Ahhhh...


I see you are up on yesterday's news from FoxNews.

[thaiboxerken]

Msnbc!


You ever watch the network? They have quite a few conservatives that not only appear as guests and regular commentators, but also as co-hosts and hosts.

[joobz]

I feel like this thread has become a "well our side isn't as biased as your side..."

The fact is all news is biased. But to be news, they must attempt "at least" to remove as much bias as possible.

The major criticism of FOX that makes it different than any other news source is that it doesn't attempt to be unbiased while simultaneously claiming to be fair and balanced.
And for a news organization, the only worse indictment you can make is to claim that they fabricate news.

[Denver]

I think part of the issue is that the phrase "fair and balanced" is translated in many minds as "trustworthy". Trust is usually built over time, either by measuring statements versus facts/outcomes (critical thinker), or by feeling something in your world is being protected (child).

Perhaps your friend is correct: over time, they have listened to different news sources, and found Fox's statements to most closely match the facts of a situation as revealed over time, or that their prognostications have most matched actual outcomes. Or perhaps your friend likes the security blanket Fox gives to conservatives who can't deal with the real world.

Regardless of which is the actual case with Fox news, it's a hard call to know why your friend trusts them so, without knowing more about your friend. Could be a little of both.

[pgwenthold]

Sweeping generalization mistake. I know MSNBC has a liberal slant, and I know Fox has a conservative slant.


I am trying to figure out, where does MSNBC deny having a liberal slant?

This is the difference - Fox claims to be fair and balanced. MSNBC never made any such pretense.

[pgwenthold]

You ever watch the network? They have quite a few conservatives that not only appear as guests and regular commentators, but also as co-hosts and hosts.

Yeah, but Pat Buchanon isn't really a serious "conservative commentor," is he? I always just assumed he was some sort of a parody.

[thaiboxerken]

Yeah, but Pat Buchanon isn't really a serious "conservative commentor," is he? I always just assumed he was some sort of a parody.

Nah. He actually does believe what he says, which is often what most of the mainstream conservatives believe.

Dylan Rattigan is not what I'd call liberal, he's some sort of strange Libertarian.

[quarky]

Jesus was a Nazi.