TAM in Europe?

[Chaos]

Around the end of TAM2, there where several discussions of holding an Amazing Meeting outside America - specifically, in Europe.

It would, of course, have the benefit of allowing more of our European members to attend, while having the drawback of making it more difficult (and expensive) for Americans.

I have already (perhaps ad nauseam) proposed Frankfurt as a site, but there are also other cities that came up in the discussions, and a few more that I thought of later:

- Berlin
- London
- Paris
- Amsterdam
- Kopenhagen
- Rome
- Prague
- Stockholm
- Barcelona
- any other ideas?

I have been to some of these cities before, and they all have some appeal as TAM sites:

- They are not too expensive (with the exception of London and perhaps Paris)
- They have enough tourism to offer good services to tourists
- They offer enough things to see outside the Meeting (especially Rome - you can spend a year there and still not see everything)
- You can get along well enough without speaking any language except English
- Other advantages I didn´t think of ;)

For that reason, I have started this poll just to get a feeling for the interest in TAM attendance. If any of you have ideas, feel free to tell me.

Edited to add:
Everybody who lives closer to America than to Europe (Far East, Australia) please use the "America" options.
Everybody who lives closer to Europe than to America (Africa, Middle East) please use the "Europe" options.
Shemp, please use the Planet X option.

[Cleopatra]

Why not organize a TAM in Europe too. Let's be realistic. Those travels are really difficult for the majority and collecting funds in Euros is not such a bad idea for JREF.

I'd vote for Copenhagen to honor the numerous activist skeptics that support the Foundation.I think that Denmark has the most organized skeptic groups but I am not sure about that because Germany seems pretty organized too. I--for example-- buy "Skeptic" and books from a skeptic society in Germany.

I'd propose Greece but in Greece it's the Greek Church that has an very organized Bureau against woo-wooism and we don't have any skeptic groups :)

[headscratcher4]

I think the next one should be in Washington DC....here in the city controlled by fanatics of the religous right. We should hold TAM here so that we can make a statement that the kooks don't own the place.

Interesting panals could be held...invite COngressmen and NIH Alternative Meds. officials to come and defend out-rageous expenditures on "alternative" non-scientific practices. Invite some of the right-wing Christian lawyers fighting for creationism as an "alternative" sciene to talk, etc.

Anyway, my vote is for DC...and it is only based in small part on the fact that I live here and wouldn't have to travel....

[Chaos]

Cleopatra

I originally intended to include Athens in my list of cities, but I forgot it - I hope you can forgive me.
Once Athens has successfully hosted the Olympics, it has demonstrated its ability to successfully host an Amazing Meeting as well :D



There has also been some talk of splitting the Amazing Meetings up, holding two smaller meetings each year, since TAM2 already got very large, and it would probably not be feasible to have much larger meeting - don´t quote me on it, but I think I heard that attendance numbers would have to be capped if they rose much more. Since we had about 350 attendees this time, that would mean a maximum of about 400 people.
From what I heard, attendance at TAM1 was about 230 people, so I guess we could indeed have two TAMs if each got about that many attendees. Perhaps even less, since I heard that nobody expected so many people to come.

It would be nice to hear something official about that.

[Nyarlathotep]

I think a US TAM and a European TAM would be the way to go. Many Americans that might attend a TAM in the US might not be able to attend one in Europe for a variety of reasons (not wanting to travel that far, plane tickets too expensive, etc.) and I am sure that the same is true for Europeans wanting to travel to the US. Separate US and European TAMs would solve that problem.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
I think a US TAM and a European TAM would be the way to go. Many Americans that might attend a TAM in the US might not be able to attend one in Europe for a variety of reasons (not wanting to travel that far, plane tickets too expensive, etc.) and I am sure that the same is true for Europeans wanting to travel to the US. Separate US and European TAMs would solve that problem.

No offense, man, but what does that say about Americans? :)

I don't exactly love to travel, but I'll go an extra mile (or a few thousand) to attend TAM, as well as digging up a grandmother and sell her for medical experiments to pay for the trip. Guess that doesn't apply to Americans.

We shouldn't have a TAM in Europe to accomodate people's dislike of travelling. We should have it because TAM should not be perceived as a primarily American event - it should be a global event, underlining that pseudoscience is not just an American thingie.

That Americans don't want to travel outside the US is their problem. If people want to maintain limited horizons, so be it.

Think about it: I came from Denmark, deBergerac came from Sweden, the Aussies came from Down Undah, Luciana came from Brazil, Patricio came from Chile. None of us, I believe, are particularly rich. Yet, we spend time and money to get there, wherever TAM may be.

Now, that's dedication.

(sound of raspberry) :p

[headscratcher4]

No offense, man, but what does that say about Americans?

Two things: the dollar bites just now, and there are French people in Europe.:p

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Chaos
[B]Around the end of TAM2, there where several discussions of holding an Amazing Meeting outside America - specifically, in Europe.

It would, of course, have the benefit of allowing more of our European members to attend, while having the drawback of making it more difficult (and expensive) for Americans.

I have already (perhaps ad nauseam) proposed Frankfurt as a site, but there are also other cities that came up in the discussions, and a few more that I thought of later:

- Berlin
- London
- Paris
- Amsterdam
- Kopenhagen
- Rome
- Prague
- Stockholm
- Barcelona
- any other ideas?



Yes, what about Stockton-on-Tees? If it's held there I'll come. As along as I'm allowed to argue with people such as Penn :)

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
[B]

No offense, man, but what does that say about Americans? :)

I don't exactly love to travel, but I'll go an extra mile (or a few thousand) to attend TAM, as well as digging up a grandmother and sell her for medical experiments to pay for the trip. Guess that doesn't apply to Americans.

We shouldn't have a TAM in Europe to accomodate people's dislike of travelling. We should have it because TAM should not be perceived as a primarily American event - it should be a global event, underlining that pseudoscience is not just an American thingie.



I think you must have meant pseudo-skepticism.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by CFLarsen


No offense, man, but what does that say about Americans? :)

I don't exactly love to travel, but I'll go an extra mile (or a few thousand) to attend TAM, as well as digging up a grandmother and sell her for medical experiments to pay for the trip. Guess that doesn't apply to Americans.

We shouldn't have a TAM in Europe to accomodate people's dislike of travelling. We should have it because TAM should not be perceived as a primarily American event - it should be a global event, underlining that pseudoscience is not just an American thingie.

That Americans don't want to travel outside the US is their problem. If people want to maintain limited horizons, so be it.

Think about it: I came from Denmark, deBergerac came from Sweden, the Aussies came from Down Undah, Luciana came from Brazil, Patricio came from Chile. None of us, I believe, are particularly rich. Yet, we spend time and money to get there, wherever TAM may be.

Now, that's dedication.

(sound of raspberry) :p

It says nothing about Americans nor does it say anything about Europeans. It says only that travel is expensive and the further you go the more expensive it gets. I know many people from outside of the US came and I am sure that if TAM3 were held in Europe many Americans would go, barring any unexpected finiancial problems Chani and I would be among them. I am equally sure that many Europeans (and Australians, South Americans, etc.) would have like to go but couldn't afford to and that if TAM3 were held in Europe Many Americans that went this time would be unable to afford to go.

It's not a question of the desire to travel, it's a question of money, plain and simple.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
Yes, what about Stockton-on-Tees? If it's held there I'll come. As along as I'm allowed to argue with people such as Penn :)

Considering that you do not do all that well with people here, I doubt you would get two words in with Penn....

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
I think you must have meant pseudo-skepticism.

No, I meant pseudoscience. That's what skeptics usually apply skepticism to.

I know that you don't, but then, we are all just idiots, right?

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
It says nothing about Americans nor does it say anything about Europeans. It says only that travel is expensive and the further you go the more expensive it gets. I know many people from outside of the US came and I am sure that if TAM3 were held in Europe many Americans would go, barring any unexpected finiancial problems Chani and I would be among them. I am equally sure that many Europeans (and Australians, South Americans, etc.) would have like to go but couldn't afford to and that if TAM3 were held in Europe Many Americans that went this time would be unable to afford to go.

It's not a question of the desire to travel, it's a question of money, plain and simple.

You are not saying that Americans are poorer than the rest of the world, are you? :)

Could be interesting to find out just what percentage of JREF-Americans and JREF-NonAmericans attended TAMx.....

[DanishDynamite]

Cleo:Why not organize a TAM in Europe too. Let's be realistic. Those travels are really difficult for the majority and collecting funds in Euros is not such a bad idea for JREF.I do believe the Queen has managed to come up with a good idea. ;)

Seriously, there is room for two TAMs per year. January in the States, July/August in Europe. Or, we could make the non-US TAM a roaming event, switching from continent to continent every year. Europe, Aussieland, South America, etc.
I'd vote for Copenhagen to honor the numerous activist skeptics that support the Foundation.I think that Denmark has the most organized skeptic groups but I am not sure about that because Germany seems pretty organized too. I--for example-- buy "Skeptic" and books from a skeptic society in Germany.Much may be said about Cleo, but she undoubtedly has taste. :)

"Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen..."
I'd propose Greece but in Greece it's the Greek Church that has an very organized Bureau against woo-wooism and we don't have any skeptic groups :) The Greek Church has a movement against woo-wooism? :eek: How does that work? Are their own beliefs excempted from scrutiny?

[DanishDynamite]

Claus,

Stop picking on the Americans. I mean, you don't hit people wearing glasses either, do you? :D

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
Claus,

Stop picking on the Americans. I mean, you don't hit people wearing glasses either, do you? :D

No, but I steal candy from children, and kick the crutches away from people with broken legs.... :D

[headscratcher4]

You should stop picking on Americans 'cause some one just might suggest to President Bush that you've got WMD's in your back yard....;)

[Nyarlathotep]

You are not saying that Americans are poorer than the rest of the world, are you? :)

[/B]

No, of course not. But I am saying is that there are almost cetainly people on both sides of the Atlantic for whom it would be prohibitively expensive to travel that far and would attend a TAM if it were held near them but not otherwise, and splitting TAM into a US and a European meeting might be a good compromise.

I will fully admit that it is not an ideal solution and that problems still occur (i.e. Australians have to travel long distances to get to either one) and I have no idea if the JREF would want to devote the time and resources to holding two TAMs (probably not, now that I think about it). But there are problems with both keeping it in the US and with holding it in Europe too. Splitting it simply seems to be a good compromise to me.

Barring that, holding TAM3 in Europe seems like a good idea if for no other reasons than simple fairness and, as you said, to show that skepticism isn't just an American movement. If it were held in Europe I would vote Athens or Prague but only because I have always wanted to visit both of those cities and it certainly give me the impetus to finally do so.
:)

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
Claus,

Stop picking on the Americans. I mean, you don't hit people wearing glasses either, do you? :D

Hey, I think I am being insulted here...;)

Actually, I don't feel picked on. Claus is stating his postition, I'm stating mine. As long as no one starts hurling personal insults I'm fine with that.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Hey, I think I am being insulted here...;)

Sigh....see what I mean, dear Non-Americans? They are too friggin' stupid to know when they are being insulted! :D

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Actually, I don't feel picked on. Claus is stating his postition, I'm stating mine. As long as no one starts hurling personal insults I'm fine with that.

Me too, you ......American! ;)

[El Greco]

Here's a sneak peek at TAM3 held in the Greek island of Mykonos:

[headscratcher4]

What is that, an underwear convention?

[DanishDynamite]

Originally posted by headscratcher4
What is that, an underwear convention? :dl:

Good one, HS4!

[Chaos]

Nyarlathotep

Amsterdam, Kopenhagen and Barcelona are also great cities.

Amsterdam, with the Grachten ("canals") is almost like Venice. Kopenhagen has the Tivoli. Barcelona has the...I´m not sure of the name, I think it is La Rambla or something like that; and there is the Museum of Natural Science, three storeys full of exhibits about physics - bring you kids, too, they won´t want to leave the place...

(Berlin, Paris and London were not my idea, so I won´t advertise these cities; I have never been to Stockholm or Prague so I can´t say anything about them)


Holding two TAMs a year would be possible. Even if none of Europeans had attended TAM2, there still would have been more than 300 people there - which, I guess, would have been enough to make it worth the time and money.
Getting enough people to attend the European TAM could be more of a problem. I don´t know how many Americans would come - which is one reason why I set up the poll. Anyway, the majority of attendees would have to be Europeans. Certainly, there are European skeptics´ societies whose members would consider attending - if they know about the meeting.

I have no idea how many people it would take to make an Amazing Meeting profitable. As I said in another post, it would be nice to hear someone official say something about it.

[Shaun from Scotland]

While I would love to see TAM 3 in Europe I think there is one big obstacle........

Seeing as Randi has cancelled indefinitely his radio show on Doctors advice, would he be fit enough to go?

Although part of the fun of these things is meeting all the people on here it wouldn't really be TAM 3 with no Randi would it? Or everyone else at the JREF....

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland
While I would love to see TAM 3 in Europe I think there is one big obstacle........

Seeing as Randi has cancelled indefinitely his radio show on Doctors advice, would he be fit enough to go?

Although part of the fun of these things is meeting all the people on here it wouldn't really be TAM 3 with no Randi would it? Or everyone else at the JREF....

Hasn´t he been to Finland a month or two ago? It is much colder (read: bad for health) there than, for example, in Germany (read: shameless self-advertisement).

[Brown]

I would like to visit Amsterdam, any Scandanavian city or Barcelona.

I would also like to visit some non-European cities, such as Syndey, Australia. Yes, I know it is expensive to go to Australia, but I would love to go out into the country away from the city lights and see the southern stars (such as Alpha Centauri) for the first time. I also think it would be kind of a kick to see the moon "upside down."

And let's not forget Rio.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Chaos
Nyarlathotep

Amsterdam, Kopenhagen and Barcelona are also great cities.

Amsterdam, with the Grachten ("canals") is almost like Venice. Kopenhagen has the Tivoli. Barcelona has the...I´m not sure of the name, I think it is La Rambla or something like that; and there is the Museum of Natural Science, three storeys full of exhibits about physics - bring you kids, too, they won´t want to leave the place...


I don't know much about Amsterdam, Barcelona or Copenhagen so I have never thought about visiting them. I take it that you have benn to all three, though, so I am willing to take your word that they are nice cities and would be good places to hold a TAM. I am a history buff so, truth be told, all they would have to have is a history museum or two and a handful of historical monuments and/or buildings and I would be as happy as can be. I am sure any major city in Europe would have plenty of those so I am sure I would enjoy my stay anywhere over there.

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


I don't know much about Amsterdam, Barcelona or Copenhagen so I have never thought about visiting them. I take it that you have benn to all three, though, so I am willing to take your word that they are nice cities and would be good places to hold a TAM. I am a history buff so, truth be told, all they would have to have is a history museum or two and a handful of historical monuments and/or buildings and I would be as happy as can be. I am sure any major city in Europe would have plenty of those so I am sure I would enjoy my stay anywhere over there.

Right. Any European city has several centuries´ worth of culture; London and Paris (and Barcelona, I think) have been around for more than 2,000 years, Rome and Athens even longer.

If you want lots of culture and history, visit Athens, London or Rome - or maybe Paris or Amsterdam.
For the best intercontinental air travel connections, choose London, Frankfurt or maybe Paris.
For relatively low prices, choose Prague or the vicinity of Frankfurt (at 600,000 inhabitants, Frankfurt is not that big, and public transport is very good, so "outside Frankfurt" is not far away)

In winter, Kopenhagen and Stockholm might be bad ideas. In summer, Rome and Barcelona ARE bad ideas (I have been in Rome in July and do not want to repeat that experience).

As an outsider entry, Malta (more exactly, the capital La Valetta) might be worth considering; it has history and culture, everybody speaks English, it is warm enough in winter (though atrocious in summer) - but I am not sure if there are adequate convention centers. It is also not so overrun with tourists, and most of the capital has kept its "small mediterranean town" charme. I´ve been there twice and would like to return.

Disclaimer: of the cities discussed in this thread, I have never visited Stockholm, Paris, Prague and Athens, and I have been to Berlin as a little boy only, so any information on them by me is hearsay only.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Chaos


Disclaimer: of the cities discussed in this thread, I have never visited Stockholm, Paris, Prague and Athens, and I have been to Berlin as a little boy only, so any information on them by me is hearsay only.
Oh, you were in Berlin just last week??

:D

[UnrepentantSinner]

I have been to Amsterdam, Vaduz, Vienna, Sarajevo, Hamburg, Munich, Frankfort, Copenhagen, Oslo, Stockholm and Narvik (shout out to Johnno!) and I would love to go back to Europe, but there's no way I could go 8 hours in an airplane without a cigarette.

[Pirate_Lad]

So disable the smoke detector in the bathroom and inhale a pack.

[El Greco]

Russia would give a completely different perspective... I mean, some places are really awe-inspiring.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
The Greek Church has a movement against woo-wooism? :eek: How does that work? Are their own beliefs excempted from scrutiny?


Yes it has a -bureau against herecy and they debunk astrology, mediums etc( all these are considered heretic practices) but from the perspective of the church.I must admit that they do an excellent job and when it comes to astrology and mediumship they do it in a scientific way.

Of course Skepticism is by definition secular and I am not suggesting that the priests are skeptics.

[Frankie]

I like Tam to be in England and Europe once in while. Mr. Randi has travelled around the world would a Tam meeting held out of America be so a bad thing?

America is so expensive to get to attend such Tam meetings. Maybe there are possible ways that a Tam or a Jref facility could be started up to cover the European contingent?

[Zep]

FOR ED'S SAKE! WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GOING TO REALISE THAT "AUSTRALIA" IS NOT THAT LITTLE COUNTRY TO THE EAST OF SWITZERLAND WHERE THE SOUND OF MUSIC WAS MADE? AND IT'S NOT THE FIFTY-UMPTEENTH STATE OF THE U.S.A?

Really... :rolleyes:

And to think some of us spent lots of time and money getting to Las Vegas to attend TAM too.

[/rant]

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Zep
FOR ED'S SAKE! WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GOING TO REALISE THAT "AUSTRALIA" IS NOT THAT LITTLE COUNTRY TO THE EAST OF SWITZERLAND WHERE THE SOUND OF MUSIC WAS MADE? AND IT'S NOT THE FIFTY-UMPTEENTH STATE OF THE U.S.A?

Really... :rolleyes:

And to think some of us spent lots of time and money getting to Las Vegas to attend TAM too.

[/rant]

I am glad you cleared that up because I saw the terrain of that little country east of switzerland and thought the kangaroos must get mighty cold with all those mountains and snow, as for the fifty-umpteenth state of the US, I am pretty sure that's Canada.;)

[deBergerac]

I do not think that TAM in Europe is a bad idea and while we are at it I want to recommend Prague. I lived there for eight months in total and it is one of the most wonderful cities I have ever been to. The climate is good no matter the time of the year and for Nyarlathotep: the city is living history! Though I must say that Copenhagen is nice to although more expensive than Prague.

But I do not think that we shall hope for TAM3 in Europe it might be too soon. It takes a lot of effort and planning to arrange something like TAM. But perhaps we Europeans should start to look into the possibilities. If TAM is to be arranged in Europe it would be easier if a lot of the work is done by us. Btw is there anyone here in the forum from the Czech republic?

[CFLarsen]

Ohio, anyone? :)

[deBergerac]

No comment

[Frankie]

I like the idea of Prague. Then I like architecture and Prague has some stunning buildings.

The poll looks tied. The Europeans want a Tam in Europe and the Americans want a Tam in America.

Perhaps Linda or one of the Tam arrangers could say how possible would it to hold it in Europe or to set a European version up of one?

Are there any Jref meetings in England, or of any held by the other European countries?

[thatguywhojuggles]

Lets go to Amsterdam!! You know, just because... :)

[Jas]

I would suggest Canada, in the Rocky Mountains (Burgess Shale and Drumheller would be neat places to visit as well, both within a few hours of somewhere like Banff), but maybe (probably!) I'm prejudiced because that's where I live. It would be good for Americans (distance wise), and better for some Europeans, due to the exchange rate, and there are tons of things to do every season.

Otherwise, I would agree with Copenhagen or Frankfurt.

[bug_girl]

Personally, if i am going to spend money i don't have for something that is, essentially, frivolous, i want to go somewhere interesting. also warm, but i'll settle for interesting.

that means: Not Vegas.
what's a credit card for but charging a vacation to europe?

[JimTheBrit]

Originally posted by Chaos
Around the end of TAM2, there where several discussions of holding an Amazing Meeting outside America - specifically, in Europe.

It would, of course, have the benefit of allowing more of our European members to attend, while having the drawback of making it more difficult (and expensive) for Americans.

I have already (perhaps ad nauseam) proposed Frankfurt as a site, but there are also other cities that came up in the discussions, and a few more that I thought of later:

- Berlin
- London
- Paris
- Amsterdam
- Kopenhagen
- Rome
- Prague
- Stockholm
- Barcelona
- any other ideas?

I have been to some of these cities before, and they all have some appeal as TAM sites:

- They are not too expensive (with the exception of London and perhaps Paris)
- They have enough tourism to offer good services to tourists
- They offer enough things to see outside the Meeting (especially Rome - you can spend a year there and still not see everything)
- You can get along well enough without speaking any language except English
- Other advantages I didn´t think of ;)

For that reason, I have started this poll just to get a feeling for the interest in TAM attendance. If any of you have ideas, feel free to tell me.

Edited to add:
Everybody who lives closer to America than to Europe (Far East, Australia) please use the "America" options.
Everybody who lives closer to Europe than to America (Africa, Middle East) please use the "Europe" options.
Shemp, please use the Planet X option.

These discussions, did they have any input from the JREF? If not, how would a EuroTAM (sans JREF) differ from the other EuroSkep meet-ups (1 (http://www.ecso.org/symposium_2004.htm), 2 (http://www.cicap.org/congress/presentation.html), 3 (http://www.ecso.org/congress_2005.htm))?

[kevinsbikes]

Originally posted by thatguywhojuggles
Lets go to Amsterdam!! You know, just because... :)

Just because the weed is so readily available? There is good weed in the U.S. also. :D

[DarkMythril]

About the poll, where is the option for "All of the Above"?

(Except for the "processed foods" bit.)

EDIT: Apprently, the poll and the topic does not match?

[geni]

About the poll, where is the option for "All of the Above"?

(Except for the "processed foods" bit.)

EDIT: Apprently, the poll and the topic does not match?

Yeah it's a bug just enjoy any inadvertent human and hope it gets fixed as soon as posible.

[Zep]

Re topic: I'd LOVE to attend both places! But hey! I LIKE to travel!

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I voted that Americans are fat because "People don't exercise enough", and I end up in a thread about TAM in Europe. Coincidence?

[AGENT-ADAIR]

Europe?

Never heard of it.

[Soapy Sam]

It's the thing between Russia and Britain.

[Tanja]

I would love a TAM or TAM-type meeting in Europe. Even though I live in London, I would actually suggest Amsterdam or elsewhere in Holland, for the following reasons:
It is cheaper than the UK
Everyone speaks perfect English
There is an excellent network of roads and railway, especially links with Schiphol (Amsterdam) airport, with excellent and cheap European and worldwide connections
Easy trips to Paris, Brussels and London
...and of course there are the delights of Amsterdam, lovely restaurants (mmmm, Indonesian cuisine) etc.

[JMA]

I'd love a TAM in Paris, France. Just because I'm a french-speaking person and I like Paris...

Maybe also because skepticism and James Randy are not that well-known in France...

[Chaos]

I'd love a TAM in Paris, France. Just because I'm a french-speaking person and I like Paris...

Maybe also because skepticism and James Randy are not that well-known in France...

I´d love a TAM in Frankfurt, Germany. Just because I´m a German-speaking person and I like Frankfurt...

Maybe also because skepticism and James Randi are not that well-known in Germany...

:)

Okay, the fact that I live a 30 minute train ride from Frankfurt might be playing into this, like the fact that it takes me 40 hours and $850 to go to Vegas and back again.

But London would be fine, too. Paris may be an interesting city, but I don´t speak a word of French, and I´m just not comfortable in countries where I can´t even read the street signs.

[geni]

I´d love a TAM in Frankfurt, Germany. Just because I´m a German-speaking person and I like Frankfurt...

Maybe also because skepticism and James Randi are not that well-known in Germany...

:)

Okay, the fact that I live a 30 minute train ride from Frankfurt might be playing into this, like the fact that it takes me 40 hours and $850 to go to Vegas and back again.

You got Wikimania so have succeded your quota of geek tourists for most of the rest of this century


But London would be fine, too. Paris may be an interesting city, but I don´t speak a word of French, and I´m just not comfortable in countries where I can´t even read the street signs.

London is pricy pretty much any other UK city would be better in that regard.

[citytom]

Please, no Europe.
Have a separate one over there.

[andycal]

How about the NEC in Birmingham in the UK? Lots of access roads and cheap to stay.....





I'll get me coat....

(scurrues away)

[CFLarsen]

like the fact that it takes me 40 hours and $850 to go to Vegas and back again.

No, it doesn't. You can fly from Frankfurt to Vegas for $400. OK, it takes 17 hours to get to Vegas and 14 to get back, but still...

[Fungrim]

How about the NEC in Birmingham in the UK? Lots of access roads and cheap to stay.....
For a while I thought you were talking about the ICC and couldn't understand why you'd say it was cheap to stay. :D

NEC is probably a very good venue. Close to the airport as well. A bit outside town though, which is both good and bad. But having said that, if you catch a decent bus it'll only take you 20-25 minutes into town (iirc). Now, dunno why anyone would want to go to Birmingham though...

[Chaos]

No, it doesn't. You can fly from Frankfurt to Vegas for $400. OK, it takes 17 hours to get to Vegas and 14 to get back, but still...

How? Which airline, which route? I´m curious. I couldn´t find anything better than 600-odd Euros and about 20 hours each way, including layovers. (24 if I measure travel time "home to Stardust" instead of "take-off Frankfurt to landing Las Vegas")

[YouBelieveWHAT?]

I think a European TAM is a great idea - in addition to Vegas - but there again I do live in Germany.

Prague isn't too far away for me, and I'd love to visit it - and TAM would be a huge bonus

YBW

[andycal]

For a while I thought you were talking about the ICC and couldn't understand why you'd say it was cheap to stay. :D


Novotel is only a few hundred quid a night (cough).


... Now, dunno why anyone would want to go to Birmingham though...

Errrm...(thinks hard). Canals? More than Amsterdam (might not be true, certainly more dead dogs though).

Also, it's not far from Stratford so you could buy a pencil with a union flag on it or something.

Oh, and the ultimate Birmingham meal - the curry! hmmmmmmmm curry....

[TJ]

A TAM in Europe would be, in my opinion, to cost-prohibitive to JREF. Since TAM is actually a fund-raising event, to have it in Europe and fly everyone from JREF there would be a whole bunch of money. The registration cost would need to go up considerably in order to cover the extra expenses.

Of course, there are a lot of Randi supporters and skeptics in Europe, so the attendance might be even better, but for many of the guests and presenters it would be very expensive too.

How about organizing a skeptics conference in Europe and hiring Randi to be the keynote speaker?

[CFLarsen]

How? Which airline, which route? I´m curious. I couldn´t find anything better than 600-odd Euros and about 20 hours each way, including layovers. (24 if I measure travel time "home to Stardust" instead of "take-off Frankfurt to landing Las Vegas")

It will cost you $480 to know. :)

(Email me and I'll tell you.)

[Hutch]

How? Which airline, which route? I´m curious. I couldn´t find anything better than 600-odd Euros and about 20 hours each way, including layovers. (24 if I measure travel time "home to Stardust" instead of "take-off Frankfurt to landing Las Vegas")

CF Larsen replied:
It will cost you $480 to know.

I'll see his $480 and decrease it to $382.70.

Travelocity.com has US Airways offering Frankfurt-Las Vegas via Philadelphia for the above price. Leave 12:05pm Frankfurt on Wednesday, 25 Jan and arrive in Vegas 8:20PM, total time 17:15. Return is Monday, 30 Jan leaving at 6:45am from Vegas, transfer at Philadelphia and arrive in Frankfurt 6:00am on Tuesday 31 Jan. Total time is 14:15. Price (including taxes) is as quoted.

That is, as of 1400hrs today--with the airlines, you never know.

If those aren't your days, let me know and I'll look them up. Travelocity--wonderful for them what know city codes.

[Fungrim]

Canals? More than Amsterdam (might not be true, certainly more dead dogs though).

That's right, I forgot those (the dogs that is, at least they make the cannal interesting). I also forgot the Green Men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_man) of Birmingham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_men_of_Birmingham). Shame on me.

Also, it's not far from Stratford so you could buy a pencil with a union flag on it or something.

Which you can use to stap your way through the throngs of tourists. I which I'd thought of that when I was there last.

And yes, the curry is good.

[JimTheBrit]

How about organizing a skeptics conference in Europe ... It began this morning (http://alpha.uhasselt.be/~gjb/esc2005/).
...and hiring Randi to be the keynote speaker?Maybe next year.

[RSLancastr]

I believe they have tams in Scotland.

[Shrike]

Coming from Rotterdam, it's hard for me to say, but: Amsterdam.
I'll can get there by train (i.e. get drunk and not worry about getting home safe:)).
Otherwise a smaller TAM in Europe sounds great, as I burned all my grandmothers.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I was told at TAM IV that talk of holding some sort of conference in Europe (probably London) was seriously being discussed. Then Randi had to go and get sick on us. Has there been any further discussions on this?

An alternative thought: Is there a British/European Skeptics group that could organize something like this, if JREF can't/doesn't want to be involved?

[tkingdoll]

I was told at TAM IV that talk of holding some sort of conference in Europe (probably London) was seriously being discussed. Then Randi had to go and get sick on us. Has there been any further discussions on this?

An alternative thought: Is there a British/European Skeptics group that could organize something like this, if JREF can't/doesn't want to be involved?

UK Skeptics has the expertise and resources to do this if the JREF don't, but my understanding is that JREF still hasn't written this idea off so my opinion is...wait and see ;)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

UK Skeptics has the expertise and resources to do this if the JREF don't, but my understanding is that JREF still hasn't written this idea off so my opinion is...wait and see ;)

How long do I have to wait? :p

[tkingdoll]

How long do I have to wait? :p

I know a fun game! Start holding your breath!

No, just kidding. Cross your eyes instead.

*prays for wind to change*

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I know a fun game! Start holding your breath!

No, just kidding. Cross your eyes instead.

*prays for wind to change*

You could host it in Birmingham!

[CFLarsen]

*prays for wind to change*

[off-colour joke]

Don't pray. Just change your diet.

*Ca-CHING*

[/off-colour joke]

[tkingdoll]

You could host it in Birmingham!

Ohhhhh, that's right. Now the darn Americans are picking on Brummies. :mad:

[Ashles]

I propose...

Brighton, England.

Because it is great, has the sea, masses of tourist-friendly facilities, is convenient for Gatwick Airport, is statistically the place in England where you are least likely to be a member of a major religion, has a great big conference centre, loads of great pubs and restaurants, and it's cheaper than London (well a bit).

[BillC]

I propose...

Brighton, England.


Well, if you're going to hold it in that part of the world, the answer is obvious.
East Grinstead! (http://www.scientology.org.uk/locator/shuk.htm)

[JimTheBrit]

I propose Dublin, September 2007 (https://www.ecso.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=2).

[CFLarsen]

is statistically the place in England where you are least likely to be a member of a major religion

Where's the fun in that?

No, give me Salt Lake City instead. :D

[El Greco]

I have already proposed mid-summer Mykonos.




What ?

[Mattfn]

Silly.

No one would attend the lectures.

[Einzig]

Why is this topic dead? With the Uri-Geller craze in Germany and the Netherlands and popularity of Char Margolis, another "medium" that Randi also criticized we could use some different winds to sail with.
I'd vote for Germany for it's more central location in Europe, though perhaps the best location is just the one whose members show most interest to go.

I found a nice site named ECSO : European Skeptics, but unfortunately I see no events listed there yet.
Might be good to cooperate with them, since they have a nice list of affiliate members per country and JREF is listed too.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

TAM London II will likely be in October of this year. TAM:Switzerland will likely be in Sept of 2011.

[UnrepentantSinner]

TAM London II will likely be in October of this year. TAM:Switzerland will likely be in Sept of 2011.

So it will only have taken 9 years to have a TAM in Europe?

[Andreas K]

I found a nice site named ECSO : European Skeptics, but unfortunately I see no events listed there yet.
Might be good to cooperate with them, since they have a nice list of affiliate members per country and JREF is listed too.

ESCO will have a conference this year: Sept 17th to 19th, in Budapest.
szkeptikus.hu/14th-european-skeptic-congress?Itemid=78

(Sorry, as a forum newbie I can't post proper links yet.)

[Andreas K]

So it will only have taken 9 years to have a TAM in Europe?

There was a TAM in London last year and there will be another this October. (Some do count the UK in Europe...)

[Andreas K]

TAM London II will likely be in October of this year. TAM:Switzerland will likely be in Sept of 2011.

It's not carved into stone just yet, but the plan is indeed to have a TAM from Sept 1st to 4th in Zürich.

[UnrepentantSinner]

There was a TAM in London last year and there will be another this October. (Some do count the UK in Europe...)

That's why I italicized "in". Probably should have included a smilie.

ESCO will have a conference this year: Sept 17th to 19th, in Budapest.
szkeptikus.hu/14th-european-skeptic-congress?Itemid=78

(Sorry, as a forum newbie I can't post proper links yet.)

Type the full url with these tags and I'll quote it and hyperlink for you:
httpfullurlwithallbellsandwhistles

[Andreas K]

Type the full url with these tags and I'll quote it and hyperlink for you:
httpfullurlwithallbellsandwhistles

The above-mentioned link (szkeptikus.hu/14th-european-skeptic-congress?Itemid=78) works just fine.
If you add the protocol and the usual URL prefix (I can't type these in as the cute forum parser will then again tell me that I may not add links) you've got all a browser needs.

BTW, the latest @tamlondon tweet says 'you might want to be in London on 16th and 17th October 2010'.

[UnrepentantSinner]

The above-mentioned link (szkeptikus.hu/14th-european-skeptic-congress?Itemid=78) works just fine.
If you add the protocol and the usual URL prefix (I can't type these in as the cute forum parser will then again tell me that I may not add links) you've got all a browser needs.
http://szkeptikus.hu/14th-european-skeptic-congress?Itemid=78