The Official UK Election Thread! 6th May it is!

[Big Les]

Given the informal movement to force a hung parliament, would I be right in saying therefore that a vote in this election actually counts for more than it usually would, since the proportion of the vote will matter more so in that situation?

I have to admit to not having thought through the whole individual vote thing. It makes rather a mockery of the whole thing, doesn't it?

[Fiona]

The Vote Now show tonight was particularly funny: I do not think it is up yet but I do thoroughly recommend it :D

[commandlinegamer]

Oh dear, Gordon and Sarah on the GMTV sofa today; another grin/girn fest.

[commandlinegamer]

A Labour candidate who described the PM as the worst this country has had [1] is described as mentally unbalanced by his mother [2].

[1] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8659399.stm

[2] - http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Brown-worst-PM-says-Labour-candidate/article-2106652-detail/article.html

Could it get any worse now for Labour?

[Dave Rogers]

Could it get any worse now for Labour?

I'm not sure [1] and [2] don't cancel each other out.

Dave

[Debaser]

Yes, but having been forced to watch some editions of Dancing On Ice, and Strictly Come Dancing, I think they could do more to liven things up. Read the results out in a semi-random order, of course, but after reading out each candidate's name, leave at least a ten second gap, with low bass note and heartbeat effect, before reading out that candidate's "score".


I think the Gestapo-esque single spotlight, of Mastermind fame, would be good. Train it on them from an angle such that they all have to keep shadeing their eyes or squinting uncomfortably whilst trying to look cool, calm and collected leadership material.

[jimbob]

I'm not sure [1] and [2] don't cancel each other out.

Dave
Not really, he is still the Labour candidate for his seat, so it doesn't look good for their selection process. I heard on the news the Norfolk Labour party said that he was the worst candidate they had, which might be an amusing attempt ad damage "limitation"


(Why do I think of Jeffry Archer, a person who epitomises the inherent* dignity of the House of Lords?)


*see what I did there

[geni]

I think the Gestapo-esque single spotlight, of Mastermind fame, would be good. Train it on them from an angle such that they all have to keep shadeing their eyes or squinting uncomfortably whilst trying to look cool, calm and collected leadership material.

You won't see much in the way of the actualy leaders on election night. Mostly a mix of london MPs and those the parties think qualify as a safe pair of hands and/or Boris Johnson

[Undesired Walrus]

Ed Balls should be sacked for his recent statements on tactical voting.

[Rolfe]

I've got my accreditation letters through as a polling agent and a counting agent, so I'll let you know how it goes afterwards.

The polling agent bit is ostensibly to allow me, on behalf of the SNP candidate, to challenge anyone I think might be voting when they've no right to vote. In reality, the chance of me spotting any attempt like that is vanishingly small. (More than other times I've done this, when I was in constituencies where I was a stranger, but still negligible.) Actually, it's more about showing the flag as much as is permitted, and keeping an eye on the opposition to make sure that they also are staying on the right side of "permitted".

I've never been a counting agent before, but I gather it's all about keeping an eye on the counting clerks to make sure they're putting the votes in the right bundles. And about second-guessing the result. I've always wanted to be in at a count, so this time I get to do it. The trouble is that my village is at the opposite side of the constituency from the count, and it's an hour and a half by road. Word is, we're staying at the polling stations until close of poll, which means not getting to the count much before midnight.

I don't suppose we have to follow the ballot boxes to the count, as they do in some of the big Labour strongholds. If there's going to be any funny stuff, it won't happen here.

Rolfe.

[geni]

Ed Balls should be sacked for his recent statements on tactical voting.

Parties have been giving a nod and a wink to tactical voting for years. In practice all it is is asking voters to vote in a rational manner over the course of one election cycle.

[Undesired Walrus]

Accusing Labour of the most negative campaign "in modern history", David Cameron said his "very simple message" was only his party could bring change.

How dare he?

[andyandy]

Ed Balls should be sacked for his recent statements on tactical voting.

Don't worry, he's probably going to lose his seat anyway.....

Couldn't happen to a less pleasant chap.


I've got my accreditation letters through as a polling agent and a counting agent, so I'll let you know how it goes afterwards.


Are we going to see a Zimbabwe style 100% SNP return from your station then? :D

[Rolfe]

Chance would be a fine thing! :D

I'm only in it for the fun, as this isn't close to being a target seat. In fact, we're downright squoze. Realistically, the only votes we'll get are the diehard supporters and people who haven't actually looked at the arithmetic of the constituency.

Rolfe.

[geni]

Are we going to see a Zimbabwe style 100% SNP return from your station then? :D

Rolfe doesn't live in the tower hamlets.

[Rolfe]

Thank God fasting.

Rolfe.

[dudalb]

How dare he?

The UK is just like the US; no matter how in favor of the status quo you are come election time shout a lot about Change.

[MarkCorrigan]

The UK is just like the US; no matter how in favor of the status quo you are come election time shout a lot about Change.

It's more his complaining about negative campaigning when his party runs crap like these:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:8gijXFQmrbupyM:http://img422.imageshack.us/img422/7133/taxbombshell28xk.jpg

http://www.burnleycitizen.co.uk/resources/images/1247766/?type=display

He's scum.

[Undesired Walrus]

Don't worry, he's probably going to lose his seat anyway.....

Couldn't happen to a less pleasant chap.



Nah, looks like he'll scrape in.

It seems some people in the Labour party have lost their mind by wanting this guy as next leader.

[Rolfe]

It's more his complaining about negative campaigning when his party runs crap like these:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:8gijXFQmrbupyM:http://img422.imageshack.us/img422/7133/taxbombshell28xk.jpg

http://www.burnleycitizen.co.uk/resources/images/1247766/?type=display

He's scum.


I was thinking about the demon eyes, actually.

Yuk.

Rolfe.

[Undesired Walrus]

It's more his complaining about negative campaigning when his party runs crap like these:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:8gijXFQmrbupyM:http://img422.imageshack.us/img422/7133/taxbombshell28xk.jpg

http://www.burnleycitizen.co.uk/resources/images/1247766/?type=display

He's scum.

Yeah, let's hear that again:

Accusing Labour of the most negative campaign "in modern history", David Cameron said his "very simple message" was only his party could bring change.

Outside my work:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p297/ldl21/_MediaCard_BlackBerry_pictures_IMG0.jpg

Outside a bingo hall (Nothing to scare the pensioners here!):

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p297/ldl21/IMG01332-20100401-1507.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p297/ldl21/IMG01510-20100419-1440.jpg

[Rolfe]

He did take the billions from the pensions though. I remember when he did it. My Tory colleague was damning and blasting him and saying Labour would never win an election again after that. I pointed out that most people wouldn't notice in time for it to make the slightest difference to the voting while any of the then cabinet were still politically active.

I remember the same colleague, even earlier, saying the Labour manifesto in 1992 had lost them the election, this was about five minutes after it was published. I think he was right about that. I remain to be convinced that enough people realised what Brown did to their pensions though.

Rolfe.

[Fiona]

Why would a tory think that reducing pensions would lose elections: who broke the link with earnings and what was the political cost?

[Rolfe]

Er, this particular Tory isn't known for seeing the beam in his own party's eye.

Rolfe.

[geni]

I remember the same colleague, even earlier, saying the Labour manifesto in 1992 had lost them the election, this was about five minutes after it was published. I think he was right about that. I remain to be convinced that enough people realised what Brown did to their pensions though.

Err because for the most part he didn't? Doesn't impact public sector workers or those with incomes below a certian level. So minimal impact on the core labour vote and doesn't impact those able to get in before the final salary pesion schemes closed.

So you are left with rather a small group many of whom will be earning too much to be likely to vote labour anyway.

[Worm]

I've never been a counting agent before, but I gather it's all about keeping an eye on the counting clerks to make sure they're putting the votes in the right bundles. And about second-guessing the result. I've always wanted to be in at a count, so this time I get to do it. The trouble is that my village is at the opposite side of the constituency from the count, and it's an hour and a half by road. Word is, we're staying at the polling stations until close of poll, which means not getting to the count much before midnight.

I don't suppose we have to follow the ballot boxes to the count, as they do in some of the big Labour strongholds. If there's going to be any funny stuff, it won't happen here.

Rolfe.

Hopefully this advice may be of some use.

As a counter of some experience, could I recommend that you smile and be polite to the counters - they are genuinely trying to do their job. By all means point out errors, but in a constructive way. I in no way think you would be critical, but in my experience, some agents can be very abrasive and actually distract staff from the task in hand. Also, don't be surprised if the counters don't talk to you, or even acknowledge you overtly. They are not being rude - they are following instructions. Guidance varies, and different returning officers handle it in different ways, but in general counters are instructed not to respond to anything other than simple informational questions - which polling station are you counting? - that sort of thing. If you have questions about process etc. - find the returning officer, a depute, or a communications officer (should they have one) - the count staff are there to do counting.

Counts tend to be on quite a tight schedule - there is a pre-booked slot they they are supposed to hit in terms of confirming the count, so the count staff are under a bit of pressure, particularly early in the process, to get things counted ASAP. You never know when you might have to recount or get a lot of papers going to adjudication, which can really slow things down later on.

[MarkCorrigan]

Er, this particular Tory isn't known for seeing the beam in his own party's eye.

Rolfe.

So that's....all Tories?

[Rat]

Yeah, let's hear that again:



Outside my work:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p297/ldl21/_MediaCard_BlackBerry_pictures_IMG0.jpg


Actually, looking at your first picture, my car is really in need of a good clean. Not had it done properly since November. I promise, despite my feelings about Labour, that if Gordon Brown comes and cleans my car, inside and out, I will vote Labour on Thursday. Unless, of course, he leaves wax on the windows so that the wipers don't work properly. Then he can **** off.

[Big Les]

Parties have been giving a nod and a wink to tactical voting for years. In practice all it is is asking voters to vote in a rational manner over the course of one election cycle.

So en masse, voting to change the outcome of an election is rational. But individually, it's not. And yet, to get the mass effect, individuals are required to make their (irrational) vote.

My brain hurts.

[Rolfe]

Hopefully this advice may be of some use.

As a counter of some experience, could I recommend that you smile and be polite to the counters - they are genuinely trying to do their job. By all means point out errors, but in a constructive way. I in no way think you would be critical, but in my experience, some agents can be very abrasive and actually distract staff from the task in hand. Also, don't be surprised if the counters don't talk to you, or even acknowledge you overtly. They are not being rude - they are following instructions. Guidance varies, and different returning officers handle it in different ways, but in general counters are instructed not to respond to anything other than simple informational questions - which polling station are you counting? - that sort of thing. If you have questions about process etc. - find the returning officer, a depute, or a communications officer (should they have one) - the count staff are there to do counting.

Counts tend to be on quite a tight schedule - there is a pre-booked slot they they are supposed to hit in terms of confirming the count, so the count staff are under a bit of pressure, particularly early in the process, to get things counted ASAP. You never know when you might have to recount or get a lot of papers going to adjudication, which can really slow things down later on.


I shouldn't worry, I'm only there for the atmosphere. I tend to think smiling sweetly and saying nice things garners more support than being pushy.

One of my cousins, a bank teller, used to do the count regularly. These guys know what they're doing, and it's all pretty simple. I tend to think the party presence is more symbolic of our right to see what's going on than any real need to police anyone.

Rolfe.

[zooterkin]

He did take the billions from the pensions though. I remember when he did it. My Tory colleague was damning and blasting him and saying Labour would never win an election again after that. I pointed out that most people wouldn't notice in time for it to make the slightest difference to the voting while any of the then cabinet were still politically active.

I remember the same colleague, even earlier, saying the Labour manifesto in 1992 had lost them the election, this was about five minutes after it was published. I think he was right about that. I remain to be convinced that enough people realised what Brown did to their pensions though.



Well, some people will notice before they actually come to draw their pension. Partly as a result of the changes that Labour made, I now pay 12% of my salary towards what was originally a non-contributory pension. (The company itself is also partly to blame, since it chose to reduce its contributions when times were good, leading to underfunding when things went bad.) Not that that will entice to me to vote Conservative, but just pointing out that some effects are more immediate than you may have realised.

[funk de fino]

Accusing Labour of the most negative campaign "in modern history", David Cameron said his "very simple message" was only his party could bring change.

By promising to never get rid of the pound.

[Rolfe]

There's a YouGov Scotland poll out giving

Labour 37
SNP 25
LibDem 22
Conservative 14

Don't know how representative that is, but it's not bad after the squeezing from the TV debates and the Clegg surge.

Rolfe.

[jimbob]

http://mydavidcameron.com/posters/estate1

[commandlinegamer]

There's a YouGov Scotland poll out giving

..
Conservative 14


Finally, an excuse to use this:

:dl:

[dudalb]

So that's....all Tories?


I think ALL political parties have problems seeing their own weaknesses.
I don't think the Tories are worse then usual in this regard.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

The one piece on Fox News yesterday: Simon Cowell supports Cameron :rolleyes: .

[geni]

So en masse, voting to change the outcome of an election is rational. But individually, it's not. And yet, to get the mass effect, individuals are required to make their (irrational) vote.

My brain hurts.

Poor phrasing. If you ignore the issue of why vote at all then conventional tactical voting is rational if you only take the single election cycle into account.

[Undesired Walrus]

So what happens if both the Tories and Labour tie on seats but refuse to join into a coalition, wishing to go it alone as a minority government?

I know the old constitutional answer is the approval of the Queen, but does she really make any decisions on a matter of such importance?

[geni]

So what happens if both the Tories and Labour tie on seats but refuse to join into a coalition, wishing to go it alone as a minority government?

I know the old constitutional answer is the approval of the Queen, but does she really make any decisions on a matter of such importance?

Under such a situation Brown would carry on as prime minister untill removed by a vote of no confidence. Cameron would then either have a go until the same thing happened to him or a general election might be called straight away.

[Undesired Walrus]

Ah, and a vote of no confidence can pass only if there is a 326 votes in favour? Is that right? Thus the fragility of minority governments?

Why can Brown continue if it is a tie in seats?

[Debaser]

C4 News just had a discussion of this. Since GB is the incumbent he gets first go at forming any new government.

[geni]

Ah, and a vote of no confidence can pass only if there is a 326 votes in favour? Is that right? Thus the fragility of minority governments?

Why can Brown continue if it is a tie in seats?

Brown is a minister of the crown and remains so until he resigns or it is shown he is unable to form a working majority in the commons. A vote of no confidence is the accepted method of forcing the issue.

[Rolfe]

C4 News just had a discussion of this. Since GB is the incumbent he gets first go at forming any new government.


I wonder if these rules are similar to those for the Scottish parliament? Three years ago the SNP ended up with only one seat more than Labour. The previous government was a Labour/LibDem coalition, and together these parties could again have formed a coalition with far more seats than the SNP had.

It's reported that at first Labour and the LibDems (especially Labour) thought everything could go on as it had been before. There was an attempt to get all the other parties together to stop Alex Salmond becoming First Minister. However, in the end it was realised that the largest party had to be allowed to try to form a government, otherwise the will of the electorate was being flouted. (I'm not quite sure how this came about without dredging newspaper archives, but I have a feeling the Tories wouldn't play ball.)

The SNP thought it could woo the LibDems into coalition, but the LibDems refused even to discuss the matter. So the SNP decided to give minority government a go. It hasn't worked too badly, but they've been unable to get some key manifesto pledges through because the other parties voted them down.

Rolfe.

[Debaser]

Well the civil servant/constitutionalist stated that it was essentially the prerogative of the incumbent to form a working government.

However, as you describe, he suggested that if Cameron got a majority of seats he would start a press campaign to influence public opinion that he should be allowed to try to form a government. Totally against the rules (which for once seem to be written down) but that's what happens when no-one in this country can really remember how hung parliaments are supposed to work.

[Fiona]

If he got a majority of seats he would have won the election, Debaser: do you mean if the tories got more seats than any other party but not a majority of the total?

[andyandy]

can people just clarify what will happen if tomorrow the Tories get the most seats, but less than lib dem and lab combined?

Is it first up to GB to see if he can get a working coalition with the lib dems? Or does Cameron get to be PM regardless of any coalition?

[Debaser]

Yes, sorry. If Labour came in second in number of seats, and the Tories didn't get the straight majority they need, then GB still gets first go to try to form some sort of working coalition.

As the man said, we elect parliaments, not governments.

[Dragon]

Yes, sorry. If Labour came in second in number of seats, and the Tories didn't get the straight majority they need, then GB still gets first go to try to form some sort of working coalition.

As the man said, we elect parliaments, not governments.This BBC flowchart (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8660699.stm) tries to simplify the issue but still leaves some questions unanswered IMO ...

[Fiona]

can people just clarify what will happen if tomorrow the Tories get the most seats, but less than lib dem and lab combined?

Is it first up to GB to see if he can get a working coalition with the lib dems? Or does Cameron get to be PM regardless of any coalition?

According to the bbc if there is no overall majority the incumbent continues while he tries to form a government. If he can get a coalition they govern till it falls apart. Otherwise I think anyone who can form a coalition which is a majority of the seats gets to form a government. Till it falls apart

[andyandy]

Yes, sorry. If Labour came in second in number of seats, and the Tories didn't get the straight majority they need, then GB still gets first go to try to form some sort of working coalition.

As the man said, we elect parliaments, not governments.

Seeing as this is probably the most likely election result, it seems pretty surprising that i haven't seen any discussion about this eventuality in the media at all....

let's say Tories get 300, labour 240 and lib dems 80. Labour go to Cleggy to form a government, Cleggy says ok, as long as you ditch brown, labour put in Milliband as a temporary leader proir to a leadership election, and bob's your uncle....

The right wing press might explode in apoplexy....which would be a bonus :)

[Debaser]

I don't know if C4 News is available on the net, but the discussion was at the end and very interesting. Basically, in any event where there is no party with the required majority it all comes down to the incumbent PM to sort things out.

As far as him stepping down and A.N. Other from his party taking over, GB would still be responsible for making sure this would be viable and informing the Queen.

[andyandy]

I don't know if C4 News is available on the net, but the discussion was at the end and very interesting. Basically, in any event where there is no party with the required majority it all comes down to the incumbent PM to sort things out.

As far as him stepping down and A.N. Other from his party taking over, GB would still be responsible for making sure this would be viable and informing the Queen.

Just googled the BBC page on it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8659878.stm

We have a strange old political system :)

I would have thought that a "progressive" alliance of the lib dems and labour would be the most viable as long as the conservatives don't get more than about 300-305 seats. Clegg gets a commitment for PR change and a change of leader, labour get to remain in the driving seat - maybe with Vince as Chancellor - it would seem to be pretty much the best of a bad lot.

[Debaser]

http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/

See Wed 5th May, Part 3 from 8:20 onwards for the explanations of sorting out a hung parliament.

[Fiona]

There has been quite a lot of discussion of this on radio 4 today and yesterday

I am not sure how likely it is though: folk are being cagey about how they will vote

[andyandy]

http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/

See Wed 5th May, Part 3 from 8:20 onwards for the explanations of sorting out a hung parliament.

Thanks for the link - i'm watching it now. Interesting to see Kristian outlining what i was thinking....

[andyandy]

There has been quite a lot of discussion of this on radio 4 today and yesterday

I am not sure how likely it is though: folk are being cagey about how they will vote

I've got a sneaky feeling that the conservatives are going to get a small majority or get within a whisker of one....close enough to get there with minimal horse trading with the NI unionist parties. They've poured millions into marginals - and i think the right wing press have probably done enough to puncture Clegg's bubble. We shall see....

[Debaser]

I've got a sneaky feeling that the conservatives are going to get a small majority or get within a whisker of one....We shall see....

It's easy to forget that there's a whole generation who've known nothing but Labour in power, much as mine had the Tories, and for whom the name Thatcher means nothing. This will be Cameron's trump card.

To an extent is was the same situation in reverse in 1997. I was 25 and for all my politically aware life I had only known the Conservatives. Any negative connotations surrounding the name Labour weren't that vivid in my mind. (Although I do remember the power cuts of the late '70s). Similarly, the miner's strike, public ownership of gas, water, electric and telecoms and the notion that we were once a major manufacturing nation, today are like ancient myths.

[Rolfe]

This reminds me a lot of 1992. The experience that drove me into the arms of the SNP, by the way.

It was widely expected to be a hung parliament, so much so that the headline of the Sun the following morning read "it's hung!" They'd taken a flier when they went to press on Thursday evening. I was desperate to get rid of the Tories, for obvious reasons and also because Labour had been promising that Scottish parliament we should have had in 1979. I was stuck in Sussex, having voted by post earlier.

I'd gone to Southampton to buy a second-hand Betamax VCR which wasn't as cheap as it should have been (but is still functioning), and I listened to the commentary as I drove home. Even the exit polls were firmly in hung parliament territory. Then, soon after I got back, Davis Amess was declared in Basildon. That was not supposed to happen.

I telephoned a friend who was a Labour activist in Basildon, a Scottish friend who is pro-independence but anti-SNP. She was home, not at the wake, and we stayed on the line virtually all night, as it just got worse and worse. There was a very regular series of revisions in the projected result, in which the Conservative result got steadily better and better until it hit an overall majority of 20 - the level apparently accepted as signalling a government that can go a full term even if it loses some by-elections. And that's what happened. We got another 5 years of Major.

It was held to be the "shy Tory" phenomenon. People who voted Conservative because they thought that would benefit them personally, but who realised Thatcher (and then Major) were unpopular - or at least, that voting Tory was seen as a selfish thing to do. So they didn't confess to the opinion pollsters, and apparently they didn't confess to the exit pollsters either.

I have no idea whether or not the shy Tory still exists. I suppose we'll find out.

After that night, my most vivid memory is seeing footage of David Steel sitting at breakfast in his home in the Borders countryside. He was there, where it mattered, and he certainly wasn't alone. While I was sitting completely isolated in Sussex, chewing the crockery. I vowed then and there that I wasn't going to remain alone like that any more. I ditched my home-made SNP sticker (made from a yellow post-it note) and joined up.

Now I'm sitting in my home in the Borders countryside, with authorisation as a polling agent and a counting agent in my pocket, and the remaining dregs of the leaflets in a bag, having been round almost every house in a three-mile radius. Trying my damndest, by the way, not to get David Steel's daughter elected. I'll go through tomorrow night at the count in Dumfries.

Did I mention happy bunny? A lot happier if the SNP was likely to get its 20 seats, but you can't have everything.

I still have no clue who is going to form the next Westminster government though.

Rolfe.

[commandlinegamer]

It was widely expected to be a hung parliament, so much so that the headline of the Sun the following morning read "it's hung!" They'd taken a flier when they went to press on Thursday evening.

I'd like to see the papers get it wrong, something on the order of the famous Titanic headline 'All saved after collision' would be nice, because I don't think 7th May is going to be any cause for cheer.

[Debaser]

This reminds me a lot of 1992.

Sadly, I remember that all too well.



It was held to be the "shy Tory" phenomenon. People who voted Conservative because they thought that would benefit them personally, but who realised Thatcher (and then Major) were unpopular - or at least, that voting Tory was seen as a selfish thing to do. So they didn't confess to the opinion pollsters, and apparently they didn't confess to the exit pollsters either.

I have no idea whether or not the shy Tory still exists. I suppose we'll find out.

I wonder if it wasn't so much 'shy Tory' as 'shy government supporter', since it was the government as a whole that was unpopular. Maybe we shall see this time which of these is correct, should GB scrape back in?

[Undesired Walrus]

Fight!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8663695.stm

[mummymonkey]

...(Although I do remember the power cuts of the late '70s)...

When was the last power cut? I remember lighting the candles when we lived in a certain house and we were out of there by 1974.

[Debaser]

When was the last power cut? I remember lighting the candles when we lived in a certain house and we were out of there by 1974.

Looks like you are right. That's weird, I clearly remember the candles, the hiss of the gas camping lantern, etc. and thought it was later because of the clarity. I can only have been about three. :jaw-dropp

[Rolfe]

There's a YouGov Scotland poll out giving

..
Conservative 14


Finally, an excuse to use this:

:dl:


That's good, in recent historical terms.

Rolfe.

[Peephole]

Holy ****, apparantly Nick Clegg speaks perfect Dutch.

Blown away here.

[Evilgiraffe]

And they're off...

Oi, you, go and vote! Go on, get off your arse and vote!

If you're not entitled to vote in the UK general election, then what the heck are you doing in this thread? Bugger off!

[Ashles]

I've voted!

Game on...

[uk_dave]

Let's get it on..... will be doing my bit for democracy in a few minutes time and putting my 'x' in whatever box god/satan/spirit of dead relatives guides me to.

Just don't blame me if the other lot get in.

[Ashles]

Just to check... 'BNP' does stand for 'Buddhism and Nature Party' doesn't it...

[uk_dave]

ermmmmmmm....

UKIP is the party for state paid afternoon naps, right? :boggled:

[Architect]

Holy ****, apparantly Nick Clegg speaks perfect Dutch.

Blown away here.

Och, it's easy: first a German word, then an English word, then a German word, then an English word........

:duck:

[Aitch]

ooh! Even Google UK have noticed (http://www.google.co.uk/logos/election10_uk-hp.gif) what today is!

[Undesired Walrus]

Still can't make up my mind between Labour and Lib Dem. Well, I'll make up my mind as I walk down the Finchley Road.

[Agatha]

I will be voting (Lib Dem) when I get home from work. My polling station is someone's front room, so I don't like to go too early!

[Professor Yaffle]

Just voted - I let my 3 year old choose - I told him "Any box except that one" (pointing at the Tories). Only had a choice of the 4 main parties here.

[commandlinegamer]

That's good, in recent historical terms.

Rolfe.

My point was I found it highly amusing that they were predicted to get so many seats north of the border.

[Rolfe]

That wasn't seats, that was percentage of the vote!

Rolfe.

[zooterkin]

ooh! Even Google UK have noticed (http://www.google.co.uk/logos/election10_uk-hp.gif) what today is!

Facebook, too; there's an app that comes up by default to let you say you've voted. Nearly half a million facebook users have, so far.

[Debaser]

Och, it's easy: first a German word, then an English word, then a German word, then an English word........

:duck:

Aand aalwaays reemeembeer its beeteer too goo doouuble oon the vooweels wheeneeveer poossible.

[Undesired Walrus]

Not much of a turnout on the Finchley Road, but it was early.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p297/ldl21/IMG01559-20100506-0926.jpg

[commandlinegamer]

You do know photography inside the polling station is illegal and can have you banged up for 75 years in The Tower?

[Undesired Walrus]

Well bugger me

[Reginald]

Only click this link IF you have a strong stomach.......

This is from the Sun (wot won it) website....

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01038/SNN0601GX2-280_1038334a.jpg

I don't know where to start, I don't know if I should laugh at them for it, cry because someone, some place thinks that might actually inspire something, I just don't know. It's not even that it's him, it is the whole idea......wow....probably the single most sycophantic thing I have ever seen.

I think if I were Tory HQ I would ask them to take that down, it has worship/cult overtones that even they might find over the top.

[Ashles]

Only click this link IF you have a strong stomach.......

This is from the Sun (wot won it) website....

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01038/SNN0601GX2-280_1038334a.jpg

I don't know where to start, I don't know if I should laugh at them for it, cry because someone, some place thinks that might actually inspire something, I just don't know. It's not even that it's him, it is the whole idea......wow....probably the single most sycophantic thing I have ever seen.

I think if I were Tory HQ I would ask them to take that down, it has worship/cult overtones that even they might find over the top.

Well The Sun is in a bit of a tricky position this year. Previously they have been able to back the probable winner near the election then claim they were instrumental in the victory.

But this time they clearly can't do that because they both aren't sure who'll win and it'll probably be a hung parliament anyway so they can't make their usual ridiculous claims of being pivotal to the election.

So instead they have decided to go with... just plain idiotic.

I think they have been caught between going one of two ways and come up with one of their most feeble covers for an important event ever.

(Of course one might just as well criticise The Beano for having a pointless cover but still the Beano doesn't take itself as unbelievably important like the Sun does)

[Undesired Walrus]

Only click this link IF you have a strong stomach.......

This is from the Sun (wot won it) website....

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01038/SNN0601GX2-280_1038334a.jpg

I don't know where to start, I don't know if I should laugh at them for it, cry because someone, some place thinks that might actually inspire something, I just don't know. It's not even that it's him, it is the whole idea......wow....probably the single most sycophantic thing I have ever seen.

I think if I were Tory HQ I would ask them to take that down, it has worship/cult overtones that even they might find over the top.

http://www.twitpic.com/1lcq0v

[Agatha]

Well bugger me I doubt that will be necessary; generally you are just told to delete the photo and not to do it again.

[Rolfe]

I called into my local polling station about lunchtime, and they said they'd had over 30% turnout already.

Vote early, vote often!

Rolfe.

[funk de fino]

Well The Sun is in a bit of a tricky position this year.

The Scottish Sun is in an even trickier position.

[Rolfe]

Hah! I remember when they supported the SNP.

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

Rolfe.

[Cuddles]

Interesting. It seems every map on the internet has the community hall they were using as the polling station marked as being in someone's house half a mile from the actual community hall. I wonder how that will affect the turnout here.

[cwalner]

Just curious, what time to the polls close and elections returns start to be reported?

If I have my calculations right it should be 6pm gmt now so hopefully pretty soon.

[Undesired Walrus]

10pm, 4 hours from now. You tuning in on C-Span?

[Undesired Walrus]

It would be interesting if the Tories were short of 1 seat to form a majority. Then all eyes would turn to Thirsk and Malton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirsk_and_Malton) which votes on the 27th.

[wollery]

First returns are usually 10pm, but you have to wait until about 1 or 2 am before there are enough returns in to call it, and this election being so close, it could be a lot later than that.


ETA, may also need a lot of recounts.

[geni]

Just curious, what time to the polls close and elections returns start to be reported?

If I have my calculations right it should be 6pm gmt now so hopefully pretty soon.

Sunderland South will declare sometime before 11 O'clock. Other results will start to drift in sometime before midnight.

[Big Les]

Poor phrasing. If you ignore the issue of why vote at all then conventional tactical voting is rational if you only take the single election cycle into account.

I don't think I can ignore the 'at all' bit. I'm now struggling to justify the very idea of voting. Does anyone have a good reason for bothering to turn out?

[geni]

I don't think I can ignore the 'at all' bit. I'm now struggling to justify the very idea of voting. Does anyone have a good reason for bothering to turn out?

Polticians consider turnout when deciding who they can afford to upset. There is also a small but non zero chance that your seat may be the first one ever decided by one vote in modern times (some of the old pocket boroughs may have been decided by that kind of margin).

[Undesired Walrus]

I don't think I can ignore the 'at all' bit. I'm now struggling to justify the very idea of voting. Does anyone have a good reason for bothering to turn out?

To make the Burmese Junta and the Iranian Theocracy fear the strength and superiority of democracy, and to not let Mandela's 26 years in jail be in vain.

[Rolfe]

I've just returned from a tour of local polling stations. (How come our village, the largest in the area, has the smallest village hall?) Turnout has been fairly brisk. Nearly all the polling stations contained only some bored polling clerks and occasionally the odd voter. The polling clerk for my own station is my neighbour, who gave me a good run-down of comparative turnout (and offered to look out for my mother if I'm out all night at the count).

Biggar was crawling with blue-rosetted Tories, so we gave each other cool but polite nods. In the village hall at Dolphinton, which is tiny, there was a polling agent sitting in a dark corner reading a book. Since we're not allowed to wear rosettes or badges if we're staying in the hall (as opposed to just calling in) I don't know which party he was from. I can't imagine what he thought he was achieving. The chances of anyone choosing that tiny hamlet to rig the vote seem negligible, and he was hardly flying the flag for anyone, sitting in a dark corner without any discernible colours. (You can tell which party I'm from even when I take off my rosette, simply by what I'm wearing.)

This is the only Tory-held constituency in Scotland, and they're quite nervous about losing it. I think I could resign myself to Catriona Steel as our MP if it got rid of the Tory, I have to say. At least she can string several coherent sentences together that don't sound as if they're scripted.

Rolfe.

[Rolfe]

I don't think I can ignore the 'at all' bit. I'm now struggling to justify the very idea of voting. Does anyone have a good reason for bothering to turn out?


If you were female, I'd yell at you that women died to get you the vote. Get out there and don't let them have died in vain.

As you're not - well, possibly someone sacrificed something for universal male suffrage?

Rolfe.

[Big Les]

I take your point, but I'm not sure people having died for something means that I should embrace it regardless of the actual effect it will have. It's special pleading, really. Like the 'if you don't vote, you can't complain' chestnut. Presumably all based on the idea, as I put it, that if no-one voted, we'd be in trouble. That, as Geni pointed out, is irrelevant to my individual decision, unless and until the turnout falls far enough that my vote becomes worthwhile. This is aside from the inherent problems of our own particular system that make it even less worthwhile an exercise.

Don't worry, I'm off now to vote, I just don't feel particularly enthused. I always knew it made very little difference, I just didn't appreciate how little until this time around.

[Fiona]

Well this is the first time I have been afforded an opportunity to not vote BNP. I honestly never thought I would see the day when they were on the ballot here.

[jimbob]

The more people who vote, and don't vote BNP, the smaller their share of the vote is and the less influence they have... In a constituency where the BNP is standing, aiming to get them to lose their deposit, or better yet, to be pushed into 7th place behind the Greens, UKIP, and Monster Raving loony party would be a reason.

Is that a partial answer Les?

I would say that there are two aspects to voting.

Firstly: the obvious one about electing an MP, and hoping that your favoured candidate either wins or at least keeps their deposit.

Secondly: the less tangible one, where the election is also the largest opinion poll in the country, so you can still try to send a message, and also think about what you want for the next election.

That is why I voted Lib-dem in a Labour-Tory marginal. From the civil-liberties standpoint I think that even the Tories are better than Labour, and that really sticks in my throat, having been a politically aware teenager in the 1980's and remembering some of the legislation from then.

[Big Les]

The more people who vote, and don't vote BNP, the smaller their share of the vote is and the less influence they have... In a constituency where the BNP is standing, aiming to get them to lose their deposit, or better yet, to be pushed into 7th place behind the Greens, UKIP, and Monster Raving loony party would be a reason.

Is that a partial answer Les?

That is what I had always assumed, and I hope that is true. That's certainly my partner's main rationale for turning out and voting for anyone other than those cretins. This area is a big potential area for the BNP, and they got about 1000 votes last time round (before I moved here).

I would say that there are two aspects to voting.

Firstly: the obvious one about electing an MP, and hoping that your favoured candidate either wins or at least keeps their deposit.

Secondly: the less tangible one, where the election is also the largest opinion poll in the country, so you can still try to send a message, and also think about what you want for the next election.

That is why I voted Lib-dem in a Labour-Tory marginal. From the civil-liberties standpoint I think that even the Tories are better than Labour, and that really sticks in my throat, having been a politically aware teenager in the 1980's and remembering some of the legislation from then.

Quite agree on that last score. Though in light of one vote having virtually no effect and certainly no effect on the outcome kind of nixes both of those points. It seems that voting really is more of a secular ritual than anything else.

[Rolfe]

It's like singing in a choir, as I said before. No one individual voice is important, the choir could manage just fine without you. But nobody else's voice is more important than yours, and without any of these voices, there would be no music.

Rolfe.

[Ashles]

Well this is the first time I have been afforded an opportunity to not vote BNP. I honestly never thought I would see the day when they were on the ballot here.

A friend of mine voted today - his ballot paper had options for both the BNP and the National Front.

The National Front! They're still going apparently!
Knuckle dragging morons who view the BNP as woolly liberals.


Anyway, has Sunderland declared yet? I know the polls haven't officially closed but lets be honest SUnderland always declare so early we know they're just making it up.

[Ashles]

Quite agree on that last score. Though in light of one vote having virtually no effect and certainly no effect on the outcome kind of nixes both of those points. It seems that voting really is more of a secular ritual than anything else.

By that rationale no-one should ever bother giving up smoking. After all one cigarette won't do any measurable damage...

[Ashles]

It's starting! It's starting!

(runs around in small circles hugging self like child)

[commandlinegamer]

And so the TV wankfest of punditry and padding begins...

[jimbob]

If you were female, I'd yell at you that women died to get you the vote. Get out there and don't let them have died in vain.

As you're not - well, possibly someone sacrificed something for universal male suffrage?

Rolfe.

Damn right they did

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartism

Just that it happened before the suffragettes.

And before talking about the various struggles since the 1930's for democracy in Europe

[Ashles]

First exit poll:

Conservatives: 307
Labour: 255
Lib Dems: 59
Others: 29

Hung parliament

(But remember it is an exit poll and its just a bit of fun)

[andyandy]

exit poll in!

307 for Tories

255 Labour

59 for Lib Dems

Hung Parliament

[andyandy]

First exit poll:

Conservatives: 307
Labour: 255
Lib Dems: 59
Others: 29

damn your fast fingers!

[Ashles]

opinion poll in!

307 for Tories

255 Labour

59 for Lib Dems

Hung Parliament


That's so old news. :)

[andyandy]

That's so old news. :)

lol :D

[commandlinegamer]

BBC showing off-will show results projected onto the Clock Tower of the Palace of Westminster.

[Ashles]

Why do Sunderland feel the need to always be first?

Do they have like 28 voters or something?

[andyandy]

why is Victoria Derbyshire on BBC 5 live? She's utterly dreadful.....

[Ashles]

Curiously low figures for the Lib Dems.

Still they are exit poll figures and thus to be trusted about as much as Mayday's stories.

[jimbob]

Why do Sunderland feel the need to always be first?

Do they have like 28 voters or something?

No, but about 28 usually don't vote Labour, and it is a compact constituency.

[Ashles]

Actually I'm getting genuinely annoyed with Sunderland now.

Isn't counting the votes correctly slightly more important than this childish obsession with counting them really fast and having schoolboys chucking the ballot boxes around? They honestly look in real danger of dropping one of them and everyone watching voting papers flying off into the wind.

[Ashles]

Ed Davey looks a bit dopey. His little yellow flower is quite sweet though.

[Fiona]

People were turned away from the poll in Clegg's constituency?

[Ashles]

People were turned away from the poll in Clegg's constituency?

Well if they turned up en masse at 9:59...

[Fiona]

suggests a big turn out perhaps?

[Ashles]

BBC demonstrating the world's largest iPhone...

[MarkCorrigan]

Curiously low figures for the Lib Dems.

Still they are exit poll figures and thus to be trusted about as much as Mayday's stories.

Plus as Vince Cable said, it doesn't take postal votes into account.

Where are these polls held? I've never seen a pollster at a booth.

[Ashles]

Nooo, this river bit looks lame.

Piers Morgan????


ETA: They are filming piers Morgan very close up. And I have a 50 inch TV. This is not a good combnation.

[MarkCorrigan]

I don't think I can ignore the 'at all' bit. I'm now struggling to justify the very idea of voting. Does anyone have a good reason for bothering to turn out?

If you don't vote, you lose the right to complain about any political decision made because you decided that it didn't matter.

[andyandy]

Well if they turned up en masse at 9:59...

you can't have much sympathy really - the polls are open for about 13 hours, and if you can't make them then make a flippin postal vote....

[MarkCorrigan]

Nooo, this river bit looks lame.

Piers Morgan????

Worse....I agree with Piers!

A lot!

ARGH the world is ending!

[Matthew Best]

I'm very impressed that you're all resisting the temptation to watch Charlie Brooker's take on Channel 4 and sticking with the sensible channels.

[geni]

Why do Sunderland feel the need to always be first?

Do they have like 28 voters or something?

Low turnout, geographicaly compact consituency and a history of being first.

[Fiona]

Apparently there were queues at quite a lot of polling stations. Not here: place was pretty dead when I voted. Anyone had to queue?

[Matthew Best]

I did. Only for a minute or two.

[Architect]

Apparently there were queues at quite a lot of polling stations. Not here: place was pretty dead when I voted. Anyone had to queue?

Not at 9am, no: only voter in the place. One very, very lonely Tory party person standing outside.

[jimbob]

I'm very impressed that you're all resisting the temptation to watch Charlie Brooker's take on Channel 4 and sticking with the sensible channels.

When BBC went to Bruce Forsyth, I turned over, as even Jimmy Carr began to seem sensible.

[Fiona]

Arnold Schwarzenegger has phoned to congratulate Cameron on his victory

[commandlinegamer]

labour win 1st declared

[Fiona]

Sunderland

bnp 1961
libdem 5292
ukip 1022
con 8147
lab 19137
ind 2462

8% swing to tories

turnout 55%

[Ashles]

When BBC went to Bruce Forsyth, I turned over, as even Jimmy Carr began to seem sensible.

Bruce Forsyth????

W
T
F

[commandlinegamer]

Jim Murphy on ITV on the moment; give him a hooded cloak, he'd be a great Grim Reaper.

[commandlinegamer]

Bruce Forsyth????

W
T
F

Think they're trying to compete with Channel 4's comedy anti-election special.

[Architect]

Sorry, watching the Scottish coverage on Beeb 1 instead. Gray overlooking the swing against Lab.....

[Ashles]

labour win 1st declared

Based on that Labour will win every seat and win an overall absolute majority. :)

[Matthew Best]

I quite liked Charlie Brooker saying that the first debate increased Nick Clegg's appeal as people realised that, far from being just "the other one" he was, in fact, "neither of those two".

[jimbob]

I quite liked Charlie Brooker saying that the first debate increased Nick Clegg's appeal as people realised that, far from being just "the other one" he was, in fact, "neither of those two".


Wasn't he mimicking Clegg's manner when saying that?

[Agatha]

People in Sheffield were queueing for three hours and then got turned away; I can understand it if they turned up at 9.50, but if you turn up at 7, straight from work, you really should be able to exercise your franchise.

[commandlinegamer]

Police allegedly removing people from that polling station...Robert Mugabe denies responsibility.

[zooterkin]

Apparently there were queues at quite a lot of polling stations. Not here: place was pretty dead when I voted. Anyone had to queue?

I had to wait about 10 minutes; it seemed to take an inordinately long time to sort out someone ahead of me who was casting a proxy vote as well as his own.

[Ashles]

People in Sheffield were queueing for three hours and then got turned away; I can understand it if they turned up at 9.50, but if you turn up at 7, straight from work, you really should be able to exercise your franchise.


That's pretty shocking.

[Matthew Best]

Hundreds of people were unable to vote at polling stations as they were still queuing when the ballot boxes closed at 10pm. (http://www.pressassociation.com/component/pafeeds/2010/05/06/queues_leave_hundreds_with_no_vote?camefrom=news)

Voters in Hackney, east London, were turned away from a polling station in Triangle Road after some had been forced to queue for more than an hour and a half, they said.

And police were called to a polling station in Manwood Road, Lewisham, south London, where around 300 people had yet to vote by 10pm, Scotland Yard said. There were reports of similar situations in other parts of the country.

Would-be voters staged a sit-in protest at the building after the ballot boxes closed and police had to be called.

[MarkCorrigan]

People in Sheffield were queueing for three hours and then got turned away; I can understand it if they turned up at 9.50, but if you turn up at 7, straight from work, you really should be able to exercise your franchise.

That's a disgrace.

If you turn up with 10-15 minutes to go, well tough, you should have done something else.

On the other hand, Turning up 2-3 hours before and not getting to vote? That really is a disgrace.

[Fiona]

It is also really strange. Even with a very high turnout..

[Ashles]

Let's be honest, Sunderland just make up their results each time.

[MarkCorrigan]

Let's be honest, Sunderland just make up their results each time.

"So it's Labour again...what's a big number? 19000? Sounds good.

Now, the Tories....got to make it believable, but still a whitewash....8000?"

[commandlinegamer]

2nd in: Canny result in Washington, Labour win again

[Agatha]

Could lead to challenges in some seats. This is the most exciting election I can remember, and I've been voting since 1991.

[MarkCorrigan]

Anyone else a little disturbed that the BNP have had more votes than UKIP in both declared constituencies?

ETA: and that the Tories are doing really well in Sunderland?

[Fiona]

washington

lib dem 3 182 (?)
con8157
lab 19615
ukip 1267
bnp 1916

Swing of 11% to conservative
new seat, though

[commandlinegamer]

Who else thinks Labour would have stood a better chance with Mandy as leader?

[Lothian]

washington

lib dem 3 182 (?)
con8157
lab 19615
ukip 1267
bnp 1916

Swing of 11% to conservative
new seat, thoughI work in that constituency. 1916 wankers. It must be one of the least diverse places in the country.

[MarkCorrigan]

Am I the only person who actually likes Lord Mandelson?

[dudalb]

That's a disgrace.

If you turn up with 10-15 minutes to go, well tough, you should have done something else.

On the other hand, Turning up 2-3 hours before and not getting to vote? That really is a disgrace.

Agreed, In the US, polls have a closing time, but if you show up on 7:59 they still have to let you vote.

[commandlinegamer]

I work in that constuency. 1916 wankers.

Remembering it is National Mastication Day.

[Fiona]

Am I the only person who actually likes Lord Mandelson?

I think so :)

[geni]

Anyone else a little disturbed that the BNP have had more votes than UKIP in both declared constituencies?


Both are labour and UKIP tend to grab tory voters.

[jimbob]

Am I the only person who actually likes Lord Mandelson?

Suddenly your choice of avatar makes sense

[MarkCorrigan]

Both are labour and UKIP tend to grab tory voters.

True, but I would have thought that the BNP would grab Tory votes as well, given that they are closer politically.

Although I suppose they do target the working class, who tend to be Labour.

[commandlinegamer]

And one more declared : Labour again FTW.

[Fiona]

sunderland central

lib dem 7191
lab 19495
ukip 1094
con 12700 (?)
bnp 1913

Turnout 57%
swing to con 4.8%

[Ashles]

So do Sunderland run the country at the moment?

[dudalb]

I really hope it is a hung Parliament because we Yanks can recycle all those jokes about being unable to govern themselves that we heard from the Brits during the 2000 election fiasco.

[uk_dave]

Am I the only person who actually likes Lord Mandelson?

No, Lord Mandelson does too.

ETA: Oh, and Satan

[Matthew Best]

I know you've all been waiting for this: the Election Night Come Dine With Me Result is in!

Derek Hatton: 16
Edwina Currie: 18
Rod Liddle: 17
Brian Paddick: 16

Which means a narrow victory for the Conservatives.

Who would have thought Come Dine With Me would be an accurate weather vane?

[Fiona]

No, Lord Mandelson does too.

ETA: Oh, and Satan

neither of these are provably human.

[commandlinegamer]

Nick Griffin looking suitably oily as he enters count.

[Rat]

I really hope it is a hung Parliament because we Yanks can recycle all those jokes about being unable to govern themselves that we heard from the Brits during the 2000 election fiasco.
I don't think that was because it was a close vote, though, so much as because it became a farce of counting hanging chads and whatnot.

[uk_dave]

neither of these are provably human.

Satan does try.

[geni]

I really hope it is a hung Parliament because we Yanks can recycle all those jokes about being unable to govern themselves that we heard from the Brits during the 2000 election fiasco.

Parliment is not actualy required to govern the UK.

[Lothian]

Nick Griffin looking suitably oily as he enters count.fixed.

Do not circumvent the autocensor. Thank you.

[joe911]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs526.ash1/30905_1435021319290_1345673840_1187860_6184284_n.j pg

There's a group who are going to wear black tomorrow if the conservatives get in.

[Fiona]

Some of us will be seeking some way of leaving the country

[Matthew Best]

Now on Channel 4, Brian Cox is explaining politics. (He's like a walking, talking Stephen Hawking.)

[MarkCorrigan]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs526.ash1/30905_1435021319290_1345673840_1187860_6184284_n.j pg

There's a group who are going to wear black tomorrow if the conservatives get in.

I will be...put out if the damn Tories win this bloody thing.

[joe911]

Some of us will be seeking some way of leaving the country

I heard people talking about that on twitter. There's a very large facebook group claiming they will riot if they get in.

[geni]

Regardless of the result I will keep calm and carry on.

[Fiona]

I heard people talking about that on twitter. There's a very large facebook group claiming they will riot if they get in.

I do not think people will riot if the tories win the election: I think they might riot once they have been in for while though: they won't have anything left to lose

[Agatha]

Regardless of the result I will keep calm and carry on.I'll be more like my avatar.

I have just had a text from a friend who lives in Sheffield Hallam, they are blocking the roads to stop the ballot boxes going to the count because they were queueing from 6pm and didn't get to vote. This is not Zimbabwe!

[Matthew Best]

The Guardian reports:

In Chester Labour are complaining about 600 people not being allowed to vote, even though they were on the register. That could be significant because Labour has a notional majority of just 973 in the city.

And Channel 4 just showed footage of people being turned away in my own constituency, Islington South, which is a key marginal for the Lib-Dems.

[Fiona]

I just do not understand how this can happen. Has it happened before?

[geni]

I just do not understand how this can happen. Has it happened before?

Northern Irland has been known to have issues but that was more related to parties dragging people out at the last minute.

[Fiona]

Derry

count suspended cos of a bomb scare

[Fiona]

They are reporting that Peter Robinson has lost East Belfast: not yet confirmed

[Fiona]

Sinn Fein have held West Tyrone

[Fiona]

DUP have held North Antrim

[Matthew Best]

BBC reporter Danny Carpenter in York says hundreds of postal ballots have gone missing in the city. The problems are being blamed on a printing error and a temporary closure at the local postal sorting office. In York Outer, the Lib Dems had a notional majority of just 203, meaning the missing votes could have a significant impact and pave the way for a losing party to challenge tonight's result in the courts.

[Lothian]

BBC still has 3 out of 3 for labour. They are obviously heading for a landslide so I am off to bed.

[Soapy Sam]

They are reporting that Peter Robinson has lost East Belfast: not yet confirmed


Where was it when he had it last?

[MarkCorrigan]

Where was it when he had it last?

Has he checked the back of the sofa?

[Fiona]

Belfast east

alliance 12839
dup 11306

Some minor parties, but irrelevant. That may be because of his personal problems but it is a big upset there

[andyandy]

DUP leader loses seat!

That's what an alliance with the Cons will do for you....

[andyandy]

Belfast east

alliance 12839
dup 11306

Some minor parties, but irrelevant. That may be because of his personal problems but it is a big upset there

Beaten again! I need to work on my wpm typing skills.....

[Big Les]

If you don't vote, you lose the right to complain about any political decision made because you decided that it didn't matter.

Simply not true. Why? Why would I default my human rights simply because I choose not to take part in a political process that I have next to zero chance of influencing by taking part? Why should I be forced to vote for the least of several evils? To vote for a candidate I don't agree with in order to cast a vote for a party that I broadly do (or vice versa)? Why should I be forced to take part in a political process that I may, to a greater or lesser extent, disagree with? Why, if I don't have the time, intelligence, or inclination to read up on the various participants and their policies, should I be expected to vote regardless? What could be worse than casting a vote without being in possession of the facts? By the same token, if the facts don't matter, and its out of instinct, habit, or emotion that we're expected all to vote, then how can the process itself be meaningful?

Now, I *did* vote, for the reasons I've outlined. But I'm far from convinced that it was, or ever will be, worthwhile, nor that I should somehow lose the right to even comment upon the running of my country by failing to vote for valid, considered reasons.

The whole argument to me is nothing more than social pressure - like forwarding an urban myth with the tacit intent of controlling or influencing an individual's behaviour based upon fear of what might happen, or what others might think of them. We've collectively bought into the flawed compromise of democracy, can see no alternative, and want to somehow feel involved - and so 40-60% of us trudge out and put our mark on a piece of paper. If you want to take part in it, of course that's fine. And I've no problem with encouraging people to vote, ideally using evidence. But this guilt-trip stuff is just bollocks, frankly.

This article (though written with regard to the US system) sums up my current thoughts on the subject (despite having bashed out my own rant above!);

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/boudreaux/s_554376.html

[geni]

Alliance Party are the cute little non secterian partly who grap a few percentage points. Not meant to win things.

[Fiona]

Robinson's defeat will change the situation if anybody needs a coalition...

[MarkCorrigan]

Simply not true. Why? Why would I default my human rights simply because I choose not to take part in a political process that I have next to zero chance of influencing by taking part? Why should I be forced to vote for the least of several evils? To vote for a candidate I don't agree with in order to cast a vote for a party that I broadly do (or vice versa)? Why should I be forced to take part in a political process that I may, to a greater or lesser extent, disagree with?

Now, I *did* vote, for the reasons I've outlined. But I'm far from convinced that it was, or ever will be, worthwhile, nor that I should somehow lose the right to even comment upon the running of my country by failing to vote for valid, considered reasons.

The whole argument to me is nothing more than social pressure - like forwarding an urban myth with the tacit intent of controlling or influencing an individual's behaviour based upon fear of what might happen, or what others might think of them. It's bollocks, frankly.

If you have a way to affect the political make-up of the country and you choose not to take it, how can you possibly defend your right to complain?

[Fiona]

Plaid have taken a seat from labour with a swing of 3 %

[Fiona]

labour held darlington and durham north

[Fiona]

Kingswood

bnp 1311
ukip 1528
lib dem 8072
green 383
con 19362

Conservative took it from labour and they needed 6.9%. Missed the labour figures

ETA; 9.4 % swing there

[andyandy]

Kingswood

bnp 1311
ukip 1528
lib dem 8072
green 383
con 19362

Conservative took it from labour and they needed 6.9%. Missed the labour figures

The exit polls are suggesting a hung parliament, but the swings are looking suspiciously large enough to give the Cons a small majority.....

this one was 9% - is it going to be uniform?

[Fiona]

I am inclined to think the tories will get a win: though we need to see if it is regional

[Fiona]

Labour held rutherglen and hamlton west

[Fiona]

labour held Easington

Torbay

lab 3231
lib dem 23126
con 19048

less than 60% turnout.

[andyandy]

labour held Easington

Torbay

lab 3231
lib dem 23126
con 19048

Interesting....the radio are reporting that there was a small swing to the Libs on this - maybe the south is going to get a very different voter swing to the seats in the north.

[Matthew Best]

The audience at the recording of Charlie Brooker's "You Have Been Watching" was almost entirely Lib-Dem, weirdly.

[Fiona]

Interesting....the radio are reporting that there was a small swing to the Libs on this - maybe the south is going to get a very different voter swing to the seats in the north.

Not sure: it was a lib dem seat so maybe they were more likely to buy the hype around clegg?

[Fiona]

labour held clwyd

[Fiona]

sedgefield: labour hold

[Fiona]

Putney: con hold with a big swing away from labour

[MarkCorrigan]

This is actually really exciting.

I predict Conservative majority in a hung parliament leading to a Lib-Lab pact.

[Fiona]

Surprise surprise: conservatives doing better in england so far: not in wales or scotland. If this keeps up we will have to put up with a tory government we did not vote for. Again

[Matthew Best]

Lewis Baston of the Guardian, on the other hand, is predicting a Conservative majority.

[Fiona]

Labour hold east kilbride, strathaven and lesmahagow

[Fiona]

lib dems hold fife north east

[Fiona]

City of Durham

lab 20496
ukip 856
ind 172
bnp 1153
con 6146
lib dem 17429

[geni]

lib dems will be dissapointed by that one.

[Matthew Best]

3.3% swing from SNP to LAB in Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath, Gordon Brown's constituency.

[Fiona]

cons gain Battersea

[Fiona]

Tooting

lib dem 7509
con 19514
ind 190
lab 22038
ukip 624
christian 171
green 609

Commentator saying that this was one on the edge of what the tories needed for an overall majority

Tories held guildford: top lib dem target

[geni]

UKIP not having a good night.

[Fiona]

Lab held dundee west: snp target

[MarkCorrigan]

This is really weird.

I have no idea what's going to happen.

[Soapy Sam]

Well, I see Jimmy Hood held Hamilton East- no surprise there.
My unbroken 36 year record of never having voted for an elected MP continues.

[Fiona]

so far labour down 8% in england
In Scotland labour up 8% and in wales 5%.

[Matthew Best]

Why are Labour so popular in Scotland, when you have the SNP to vote for? (I have to say if a party with the SNP's platform - minus the Scottishness - stood in Islington, I might well have been tempted to vote for them.)

[Fiona]

Bah, I need to go to bed. I will get up to a result I suppose ....

[Matthew Best]

I'm staying up all night.

[MarkCorrigan]

Glasgow East goes to Labour.

The SNP will NOT be pleased.

[Raconteur]

Ouch, where's Rolfe...

[Agatha]

Lib Dem vote seems to have collapsed in their target seats.

[Soapy Sam]

Scotland is a very conservative country. (Note small "c"). Many people here would vote for a brick if it was painted red.
I've never understood it and I've lived here all my life.


Total so faar- 89 in Labour 45 Con 29 Lib Dem 5. Lab-6, Con +6.

[geni]

Glasgow East goes to Labour.

The SNP will NOT be pleased.

Eh they won that in a by-election with a massive swing. Doesn't mean much.

[geni]

Lib Dem vote seems to have collapsed in their target seats.


Eh for the most part it appears to have done very little at all. Cleg surge appears not to exist.

Going by the results the SNP and PC are getting it looks as if when push came to shove people went along tory labour lines.

[MarkCorrigan]

We lost Lemsip!

Oh dear.

[MarkCorrigan]

Is everyone in bed?

[Giggywig]

I'm still watching on CSPAN. I find the way results are announced ever so charming, with the candidates all lined up with their big ribbons. Makes me think of cattle in a county fair.

[geni]

Is everyone in bed?

We are not going to get a result untill 6-7 and the politicians are being too controled. Not the best election night in history.

[MarkCorrigan]

We are not going to get a result untill 6-7 and the politicians are being too controled. Not the best election night in history.

I don't know, we've had some really weird results.