The Official UK Election Thread! 6th May it is!

[Matthew Best]

Yes, I agree. It's still kind of difficult to figure out how it's all going to end up.

[Raconteur]

I'm still up watching it. My constituency is a mining area, that has been an easy labour win for 80 years. I've never seen anybody over the age of 50 here who is a Tory. This year it was 17,000 to Labour, 15,000 to Conservative. I do not like how close that got. A bad sign, I think.

[Matthew Best]

People who are voting for the first time this year were born in 1992. So Thatcher must seem like some mythical figure from ancient history to them.

[MarkCorrigan]

Argh!

We're STILL stuck with that ******** Tredinnick.

Marvellous.

[Giggywig]

Ok, somebody explain Jesus and the guy with the huge ribbon in West Oxfordshire.

[MarkCorrigan]

Ohh, but it was actually a lot closer than I expected.

David Tredinnick Conservative 23,132 42.6 +0.0
Michael Mullaney Liberal Democrat 18,100 33.3 +11.7
Rory Palmer Labour 8,674 16.0 -15.9
John Ryde British National Party 2,458 4.5 +4.5
Dutch Veldhuizen UK Independence Party 1,098 2.0 -1.9
James Lampitt English Democrats 615 1.1 +1.1
Michael Brooks Science Party [The] 197 0.4 +0.4

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Suck it, Clegg! Ah, I am so happy that obnoxious, opportunist, twit has proven himself to be impotent.

Salmond said that they aren't getting major gains, but I'm hoping they stay about even.

[MarkCorrigan]

Suck it, Clegg! Ah, I am so happy that obnoxious, opportunist, twit has proven himself to be impotent.

Salmond said that they aren't getting major gains, but I'm hoping they stay about even.

Why are you happy? That means we've likely got the bloody Tories in.

Wonderful. Will they be able to rip the heart out of the British economy again?

[Matthew Best]

Ok, somebody explain Jesus and the guy with the huge ribbon in West Oxfordshire.

One was a Monster Raving Loony and the other was a notorious prankster looking for publicity.

[Giggywig]

One was a Monster Raving Loony and the other was a notorious prankster looking for publicity.

I'm thinking it doesn't matter which one was which :)

[Raconteur]

People who are voting for the first time this year were born in 1992. So Thatcher must seem like some mythical figure from ancient history to them.

This is my first vote; I was born in 1991. Looking around me, Thatcher does not seem like a mythical figure. I just have to walk around North East Derbyshire to see the effects of the 1980's. But I do agree that a lot of people have no idea about what happened. I'm glad that UKIP didn't gain big here, though. Speaking to a lot of my friends, it seems as if they are all BNP voters. Fortunately BNP weren't running here, and they were possibly too stupid to realise that UKIP was the closest vote.

[dudalb]

I have been watching the BBC feed on C Span. Not much different then US election coverage really.
Looks as if Clegg and the Liberal Democrats are not doing as well as expected. but with the hung Parliament Clegg might still get a chance to be Warwick the Kingmaker.

[MarkCorrigan]

I have been watching the BBC feed on C Span. Not much different then US election coverage really.
Looks as if Clegg and the Liberal Democrats are not doing as well as expected. but with the hung Parliament Clegg might still get a chance to be Warwick the Kingmaker.

That's what I'm thinking.

I know I'm biased, being a member of the Lib Dems, but does anyone else think it's a disgrace that we've got 21% of the vote and only 19 seats?

[KodeBlue]

Sort of.

It technically has to be rubber stamped by her but there isn't a chance in hell she would pick anyone other than who gets elected by the vote.

On the other hand, the electoral college voters in the USA somewhat regularly pick people other than who the State they work for voted in. It doesn't ever matter, but still....

Huh? where did you hear that?

[Undesired Walrus]

Evan Harris lost!

P.S I'm pissed

[MarkCorrigan]

Huh? where did you hear that?

Which bit? That they can, or that they do?

I admit it doesn't happen often, but it's more often than you would think.

[KDLarsen]

Ok, somebody explain Jesus and the guy with the huge ribbon in West Oxfordshire.
It's a pretty safe Conservative seat, so you get all sorts of interesting characters who turn up for their 5 seconds of fame.

I was somewhat amused by the pose struck by the 'Land is Power' candidate in Gordon Brown's constituency (he's the guy behind the speaker): http://i41.tinypic.com/15f5axe.jpg

Also, how the heck did Lembit Öpik manage to lose his seat? The Tories had that constituency as something around 200+ on their list of priorities.

[Matthew Best]

Former Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has lost her seat.

[Matthew Best]

Evan Harris lost!

P.S I'm pissed

Oh, that is bad news. :mad:

[Matthew Best]

Also, how the heck did Lembit Öpik manage to lose his seat?

By being Lembit Opik.

[Matthew Best]

Dave Rowntree, the drummer of Blur, has failed to take Westminster. Not surprising really, especially as they had to count all his votes "1, 2, 1-2-3-4!"

[MarkCorrigan]

Lib Dems steal Charles Clarke's seat!

Wow.

[Matthew Best]

My own constituency, Islington South, has been retained by Labour. It was a huge target for the Lib Dems (as there were only about 500 votes in it last time) but they failed miserably, with both them and the Greens losing ground while Conservatives and Labour both gained.

[Matthew Best]

Lord Ashdown: "The country has spoken. But we do not know what it has said."

[Matthew Best]

In terms of actual votes, Tories are up 4% on last time, Labour down 6.6%, Lib Dems up 1%.

[Matthew Best]

Andy Slaughter has hung on to Hammersmith for Labour, holding out Shaun Bailey the working class black Conservative candidate. That was another target seat for the Tories that they didn't quite manage to pick up.

[Tanja]

Andy Slaughter has hung on to Hammersmith for Labour, holding out Shaun Bailey the working class black Conservative candidate. That was another target seat for the Tories that they didn't quite manage to pick up.

Excellent! This is my constituency, and even though I have nothing against Shaun Bailey himself, I was hoping this would be the outcome.

[MarkCorrigan]

I wonder, could this end up being a "Everyone-but-the-Tories" alliance?

I mean, the SNP, PC and a few others who might make it certainly aren't going to ally with the Conservatives, and Labour and the Lib Dems might try and get everyone together to block the Tories.

[Matthew Best]

The BBC forecast is for a hung parliament, with the Conservatives having 306 seats (20 short of an overall majority). So Labour could presumably try to hang on to power with the support of the Lib Dems and some of the others.

[Matthew Best]

I know I'm biased, being a member of the Lib Dems, but does anyone else think it's a disgrace that we've got 21% of the vote and only 19 seats?

It apparently takes four times as many votes for the Lib Dems to get one MP in Parliament as it does for Labour or Conservatives. Which doesn't seem fair.

[MarkCorrigan]

Anyone else find it hilarious that the thin, balding man on TV right now is Lord Adonis?

[MarkCorrigan]

First ever Green MP.

Interesting.

[Matthew Best]

The Green Party have taken Brighton! Their first seat at Westminster!

[Matthew Best]

She managed to beat the Citizens for Undead Rights Party, as well as Labour, Conservative and Lib-Dem.

[Matthew Best]

Nick Griffin has failed comprehensively in Barking. Margaret Hodge's majority has gone up by 6,000

[MarkCorrigan]

Nick Griffin has failed comprehensively in Barking. Margaret Hodge's majority has gone up by 6,000

For that, I will be happy.

Thank god that piece of slime got a smaller share.

[Policenaut]

Fairly interesting stuff. But too bad C-SPAN is cutting off coverage now until 5 am. I have noting of importance to add but I will have to say that this was much more interesting than the Canadian election I tried to watch.

[Matthew Best]

Weirdly, at 6am after a long night, we still don't know who the winner is!

[zooterkin]

I heard Alex Salmond was still complaining about being excluded from the Prime Ministerial TV debates, despite the fact that the apparent surge in Lib-Dem popularity did not translate into votes.

Something I read (possibly I dreamt or misremembered it) was that 59% of people said they would vote Lib-Dem if they thought they would form the government. This is my problem with tactical voting, people end up second- and third-guessing what everyone else will do; if people vote for who they want then things might be clearer.

The news of people not being allowed to vote is quite shocking; if people had been queuing for 3 or 4 hours, there was plenty of time to find some way to accommodate them, as was done at (I think) Lewisham, where the presiding officer got all those still in the queue at 10pm inside and with a ballot paper, and voting went on until 10:30. Now, this might not be physically possible at all polling stations, but maybe there needs to be some lateral thinking as to what 'inside the polling station' means.

ETA: The exit polls proved to be remarkably accurate, barring any last minute surprises.

A couple of highlights from the coverage, spotted by others: Paxman asking a Lib-Dem spokesman if he was ready to "get into bed with Peter Mandelson", and Paddy Ashdown trying to say the Tories would be playing a trick but actually saying 'the Tories will play the prick'.

[wollery]

Weirdly, at 6am after a long night, we still don't know who the winner is!That's usual for such a close contest. When the vote is more cut and dried it's possible to see who's going to win much earlier. Also a high turnout (some reports say more than 70%!!!) means more votes to count, which takes longer.

[funk de fino]

Labour share up in Scotland. Tories nowhere.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I was somewhat amused by the pose struck by the 'Land is Power' candidate in Gordon Brown's constituency (he's the guy behind the speaker): http://i41.tinypic.com/15f5axe.jpg

I loved that guy. I was going to ask who he was, because Google didn't get me very far. However, with under one hundred votes, I doubted anyone knew.

Why are you happy? That means we've likely got the bloody Tories in.

Wonderful. Will they be able to rip the heart out of the British economy again?

I'm happy because I think it does a party bad to stay in too long. Also, I'd prefer an Old Labour revival, and an SNP boost, both goals which may be furthered by a short-term loss. In this last election the Tory an New Labour policies were eerily similar, and keeping Labour in power would probably continue that trend.

[geni]

I'm happy because I think it does a party bad to stay in too long. Also, I'd prefer an Old Labour revival, and an SNP boost, both goals which may be furthered by a short-term loss.

I suspect that they are mutaly exclusive. SNP appear to have picked up a fair bit of the "labour not left wing enough vote". If labour retreat to the left they are likely to lose that.

[Architect]

I disagree: the SNP tends to encompass a very broad range of political views across the spectrum so, for example, I know of several members who are conservative (small c) in general outlook but not unionist......

[funk de fino]

Let the Tories in with no majority. Increase the divisions between the electorate north and south of the border increasing the chance of independence. Let the Tories take the blame for the next 4 years of economic chaos. Labour waltz back in at a later date and tidy up their mess.

Result.

[funk de fino]

BNP share in England 2.1%
BNP share in Scotland 0.4%
BNP share in Wales 1.6%

Biggest increase in Wales. Interesting.

Up North

LibDems - 451,179 - 10 seats
SNP - 482,823 - 6 seats
Tories - 401,994 - 1 seat


And the best part of the evening was that fat smarmy git Griffin strutting away as if he actually meant something after his defeat.

[Soapy Sam]

Sorry to see Evan Harris has lost in Oxford. As a friend pf Dawkins, he has been active in several pro-science issues.

The traditional north-south split is as evident as ever. If it's painted red, the Scots will vote it in. If we did this once for the SNP we could have a wholly Socialist State four years later.

Just as well we're not tactical voters. See the BBC map-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/

[mummymonkey]

Well, here's a pretty kettle of fish. Did any party have a good night? The Greens perhaps. Bad night for the SNP, even Salmond admitted as much. Cleggmania fizzled out and Wales turned to the Tories (who'd have thunk that?)

Gutted for Evan Harris.

If it was a town council it would be NOC. What are the odds on another election this year?

[mummymonkey]

Lib Dem & Labour have 52% share of the popular vote between them. Is that a moral mandate to govern?

[funk de fino]

I think we may see another. It would be good in one sense as I hear that George Galloway has not won and it would be good to see him get trounced twice in one year.

ETA - I would say for most SNP supporters it was not bad night. If this had been the Scottish parliament then it would. Westminster is irrelevant for most of us as long as the Tories are not in power. An increase to labour only really shows the Scots thoughts on Cameron and his muppets. No-one wanted to take any chances in case it gave him a mandate. (IMO)

[Undesired Walrus]

If anyone thinks voting doesn't make a difference, take a look at my constituency:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/constituency/b99.stm
Glenda Jackson Labour 17,332 32.8
Chris Philp Conservative 17,290 32.7
Edward Fordham Liberal Democrat 16,491 31.2

Today I really feel my vote (I cast my cross for Glenda) mattered. Just 42 votes stood between her and the Tory.

[Ashles]

And the best part of the evening was that fat smarmy git Griffin strutting away as if he actually meant something after his defeat.


I just can't get enough of any image of his gormless face with the word 'Barking' written above it in huge letters.

[Worm]

Yay! Completely by accident I appeared wandering about in the background on BBC Scotland when they were interviewing the Lib Dem winner (Michael Moore).

Unfortunately, I'm a big lump - so it's not exactly eye candy, and I was helping someone stand on a table to unplug an extension cable, so broke about 50 H&S rules. Still, it's on BBC IPlayer so I'm officially* famous

*in my head

[mbp]

Why do some constituencies take so much longer to produce a result than others? Don't they all have roughly the same number of votes to count?

[commandlinegamer]

Robert Mugabe thanks the returning officers for their help in organising the election with special mention to those in Sheffield and Hackney.

[JihadJane]

"The Tories have rolled their sleeves up, because they intend to fist us." - Gareth Aveyard

[Undesired Walrus]

Dimbleby is still going? Is he given regular supplies of coke or something?

[commandlinegamer]

Dimbleby is still going? Is he given regular supplies of coke or something?

Maybe he found Frank Bough's secret stash.

[Ashles]

Everyone's getting very arsey on BBC at the moment.

David Owen and Alex Salmond have both seperately been unexpectedly sarcastic and unhelpful when being interviewed by Paxman.

[Undesired Walrus]

YES. Bethnal Green and Bow is taken back from Respect by Labour with a huge majority. Rushanara Ali will make a great MP (And is the first Muslim woman elected).

Respect wiped out: -19.8%

[commandlinegamer]

Given Nick Clegg's comments about the Tories, I can't see Lib-Lab coalition unless Gordy offers him the premiership.

[Undesired Walrus]

Everyone's getting very arsey on BBC at the moment.


Well, so would you if you'd been up for 36 hours without sleep.

Does anyone else really have a crush on Emily Maitlis? :blush:

[uk_dave]

Given Nick Clegg's comments about the Tories, I can't see Lib-Lab coalition unless Gordy offers him the premiership.

I thought Chelsea had that.

[Shaun from Scotland]

I can't see big Gord offering him that. But would he offer proportional Representation (the much talked about Electoral Reform)?

[Agatha]

Why do some constituencies take so much longer to produce a result than others? Don't they all have roughly the same number of votes to count?
Some started counting late, some didn't start counting till today, and some places are having recounts. Rural constituencies generally take longer as the ballot boxes have further to travel to get to the count.

[Evilgiraffe]

Why do some constituencies take so much longer to produce a result than others? Don't they all have roughly the same number of votes to count?

The large rural constituencies always take longer to count. It takes longer to get the ballot boxes to the count-room and there are more votes to count. Constituencies in which the result is close take the longest as it is much more important that the count is accurate. If a recount is needed, this delays the declaration further.

Constituencies like Sunderland South, who declare in under an hour, are geographically small, densely populated and the result is never in doubt (So no-one really cares if the count is off by a couple of hundred votes)

ETA. What Agatha said. Curse my slow typing.

[Undesired Walrus]

Yippie, London stays Labour. Anne Keen and Tony McNulty lost, but the Labour party are better off without them.

I liked 'Yes we Khan! Yes we Khan!' when Sadiq Khan got re-elected.

[uk_dave]

I am surrounded by a sea of blue :boxedin:

[commandlinegamer]

Interested in what happens at Eton when one of their chaps gets in. Do they have a half-holiday, extra helpings of spotted dick, or does Matron come round with special treats?

[Undesired Walrus]

I can't see big Gord offering him that. But would he offer proportional Representation (the much talked about Electoral Reform)?

Brown wants PR for the Lords, which may pacify them. Maybe they can stretch to AV+ for the house, which was Roy Jenkins' suggestion.

[Worm]

The large rural constituencies always take longer to count. It takes longer to get the ballot boxes to the count-room and there are more votes to count. Constituencies in which the result is close take the longest as it is much more important that the count is accurate. If a recount is needed, this delays the declaration further.

Constituencies like Sunderland South, who declare in under an hour, are geographically small, densely populated and the result is never in doubt (So no-one really cares if the count is off by a couple of hundred votes)

ETA. What Agatha said. Curse my slow typing.

It also depends on the number of staff used. Sunderland (which announced first) had something like 200 counters. Our area is not only rural, but had about 25% more votes to count and only had around 60 counters, so it obviously took much longer to get a result. We were also not running around like blue-arsed flies and employing child labour :)

The last ballot boxes were just arriving at our count centre when Sunderland announced their result.

[funk de fino]

Given Nick Clegg's comments about the Tories, I can't see Lib-Lab coalition unless Gordy offers him the premiership.

I think you need to read between the lines with Cleggs statement. Its a soundbite for the electorate IMO. I would be very surprised if the Libs can do anything with Cameron.

I think Browns overtures about electoral reform earlier were a sign something can be worked with the Libs.

[commandlinegamer]

Gordon Brown not resigning..yet.

Says we need a fairer voting systems (throws bone to Clegg).

[mbp]

Ah, so all the votes in each constituency are moved to one place before the counting starts. Yes, then some time difference does make sense.
I had assumed they'd just do a count at each polling station and then phone in the result.

[funk de fino]

George Galloway did not even turn up for his result. Pathetic cretin.

[Ashles]

So if Nick Clegg decides to form a coalition with labour but doesn't want Gordon Brown... we could end up with a situation where we watched all the leaders dabtes, yet the Prime Minister might end up being none of them, someone not elected by us, and not even a member of the party most people voted for.

Very interesting times. :)

[Dave Rogers]

It seems to me that the 'Labour, but not Gordon Brown' option is rather a difficult one. At the moment, Brown is the PM, and if he feels that he can continue as such then he isn't required to resign. What happens if his party wants to continue in government, but he personally has to resign as PM? Does that mean that the party currently in government gets first crack at forming a new government, or are all bets off from the moment Brown resigns?

Dave

[GlennB]

Interested in what happens at Eton when one of their chaps gets in. Do they have a half-holiday, extra helpings of spotted dick, or does Matron come round with special treats?

Double flogging ! Yippee !!

[Cuddles]

The first past the post system really is insane. With 641/650 seats declared, the results so far are Conservative - 302, Labour - 256, Lib Dem - 56. However, the proportion of actual votes is 36.2%, 29.1%, 23.0%. The Lib Dems should have 40 seats less than Labour, instead they have 200 less. Seems pretty clear that the whole electoral system needs some serious sorting out. At the moment who the public vote for has very little to do with who actually ends up in power. Those of the public who are actually allowed to vote rather than being sent home by the police.

[Ashles]

It seems to me that the 'Labour, but not Gordon Brown' option is rather a difficult one. At the moment, Brown is the PM, and if he feels that he can continue as such then he isn't required to resign. What happens if his party wants to continue in government, but he personally has to resign as PM? Does that mean that the party currently in government gets first crack at forming a new government, or are all bets off from the moment Brown resigns?


I think they're making it up as they go now.

I thought the Conservative offer to Nick Clegg was a bit lame. "We are not going to compromise on important stuff like immigration or defence, but we're happy to compromise on tiny stuff that we don't give a toss about."

[Architect]

The first past the post system really is insane. With 641/650 seats declared, the results so far are Conservative - 302, Labour - 256, Lib Dem - 56. However, the proportion of actual votes is 36.2%, 29.1%, 23.0%. The Lib Dems should have 40 seats less than Labour, instead they have 200 less. Seems pretty clear that the whole electoral system needs some serious sorting out. At the moment who the public vote for has very little to do with who actually ends up in power. Those of the public who are actually allowed to vote rather than being sent home by the police.

And that's we use a variation on PR in the Scottish Parliament....

[Ashles]

And still some results are coming in (although no-one really cares now).

Those candidates must be knackered.

[Ashles]

Wow, Fermanagh and South Tyrone - a majority of... 4

And people think their individual vote is pointless?

[JihadJane]

Wow, Fermanagh and South Tyrone - a majority of... 4

And people think their individual vote is pointless?

Individual votes are pointless in the current system.

[Ashles]

Oh look - It's The Standing At The Back Dressed Stupidly and Looking Stupid Party

[Ashles]

Individual votes are pointless in the current system.

Well clearly they aren't.

[Architect]

Individual votes are pointless in the current system.

Then explain Fermanagh & Tyrone.

[Debaser]

...someone not elected by us...

Aaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!
This is a PARLIAMENTARY democracy. We do not, and never have, voted for our Prime Minister. It's up to the members of the party or group of MPs who form a government to decide their leader in Parliament, and thereby our PM.



Anyway, woke up this morning and re-enacted the opening scene from Four Weddings... Not good.

Do people have that short a memory that they think a party with many of its likely cabinet members ex-public schoolboys, financially insulated from birth from the cuts they will by necessity have to make, will be somehow empathetic to the majority of citizens?


I am surrounded by a sea of blue

IMO the one good bit of the BBC's production was showing each constituency as a uniform hexagon. It showed London a bright red island, assailed on all sides by a sea of blue, and forlornly waiting to be liberated by those swathes of red in the north of England and Scotland who unfortunately can't break through the home counties.

(Pity it wasn't like the old strategy game Theatre Europe, then someone could have just typed in 'Midnight Sun' and used the nuclear option).

[JihadJane]

Then explain Fermanagh & Tyrone.


Individual votes only count in marginal seats and if you want to vote for one of the big guys. What's the point of that?

[Ashles]

Aaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!
This is a PARLIAMENTARY democracy. We do not, and never have, voted for our Prime Minister. It's up to the members of the party or group of MPs who form a government to decide their leader in Parliament, and thereby our PM.

Uh yes I know. Everyone knows this. That was actually part of the point.
I was making a point about the number of steps distance between us as voters (and how we actually voted) and the potential Prime Minster in one possible outcome. :rolleyes:

[Debaser]

Uh yes I know. Everyone knows this. That was actually part of the point.
I was making a point about the number of steps distance between us as voters (and how we actually voted) and the potential Prime Minster in one possible outcome. :rolleyes:

Sorry, I didn't pick up on the irony. Probably because I watched Ed Vaizey (Con.) making that point in all seriousness on the BBC this morning.

Unfortunately it's only when we get input from the 'constitutional experts' on occasions like these that we get to see that parliamentary democracy is possibly the weirdest form of democracy you could devise.

[jimbob]

Anyone else find it hilarious that the thin, balding man on TV right now is Lord Adonis?

To quote Sandy Toksvig: "His name writes a cheque that his face can't cash"

[Ashles]

Individual votes only count in marginal seats and if you want to vote for one of the big guys. What's the point of that?

Well if you want to vote for 'one of the big guys' in a marginal seat then, er, every point. :confused:

(And anything's potentially a marginal if people vote that way)

[Undesired Walrus]

George Galloway did not even turn up for his result. Pathetic cretin.

Forget him now. His deeply unpleasent character is out of the house, and his party has been decimated.

He's gone.

[MarkCorrigan]

Forget him now. His deeply unpleasent character is out of the house, and his party has been decimated.

He's gone.

Thank god for that.

[Undesired Walrus]

So happy Labour took back Bethnal Green and Bow. Hope the £100 I donated to their campaign helped.

[MarkCorrigan]

I'm still shocked at the loss of Lemsip.

I mean I know he's a bit of a tit, but how the hell did he manage that?

[Matthew Best]

Well, here's a pretty kettle of fish. Did any party have a good night? The Greens perhaps.

Yes. And who knew the Brighton Pavilion was a constituency?

http://www.freefoto.com/images/1015/12/1015_12_2---The-Royal-Pavilion--Brighton--Sussex_web.jpg?&k=The+Royal+Pavilion%2C+Brighton%2C+Sussex

[Debaser]

I'm still shocked at the loss of Lemsip.

I mean I know he's a bit of a tit, but how the hell did he manage that?

Obviously a major guess, but could it be that in between getting his mug onto and in various media his constituents thought he was ignoring them?

[P.J. Denyer]

It seems to me that the 'Labour, but not Gordon Brown' option is rather a difficult one. At the moment, Brown is the PM, and if he feels that he can continue as such then he isn't required to resign. What happens if his party wants to continue in government, but he personally has to resign as PM? Does that mean that the party currently in government gets first crack at forming a new government, or are all bets off from the moment Brown resigns?

Dave


By tradition outgoing Prime Minister 'recommends' his successor to the Queen, who then accepts that recommendation. In theory Brown could hang on in a coalition for a new Labour leader who he would then recommend to the Queen.

Or at least that is how I understand it.


Of course by now he may have barrackaded the door to number 10 and be shouting 'I'm not coming out, you can't make me' through the letterbox....... :D

[Delscottio]

Looks to me the Lib Dems are damned if they jump* either way, so it looks like a minority Tory government.

Surely they can't go with the Tories, their support would hate that. They can't go with Labour due to the Gordon Brown effect (Time for Milliband to step forward?)

Pretty much a disaster for all parties, how the Tories couldn't secure a majority after Browns car crash leadership, the Lib Dems stayed around the same, so much for the debates effect, and Labour still have Brown.

[Undesired Walrus]

Best speech of the night by Jim Fitzpatrick, who defeated Galloway:

“I have recently been the subject of a number of smears, being accused of Islamaphobia, of trying to ban traditional Muslim weddings, and of trying to close the East London Mosque. These would be laughable if they were not peddled to try and poison the minds of the Muslim community. Happily that community refused to be conned.

“The Dis-Respect party has clearly suffered a huge defeat. I am confident we can build better community relations without their polarising effect. Thankfully we don't have to hear that dreadful open-top bus anymore. I could claim that as my first achievement as MP of Poplar and Limehouse – reducing noise pollution.”

[MarkCorrigan]

Obviously a major guess, but could it be that in between getting his mug onto and in various media his constituents thought he was ignoring them?

Apparently so.

What a stupid tosser.

[jimbob]

My wife (who has been rather sad "despairing of her fellow countrymen") has just burst out laughing:

"William Hague has just used the word 'embryonic'..." (on the BBC live feed)

[Mojo]

Looks to me the Lib Dems are damned if they jump* either way, so it looks like a minority Tory government.

Surely they can't go with the Tories, there support would hate that. They can't go with Labour due to the Gordon Brown effect (Time for Milliband to step forward?)


Regardless of who is leader, Labour and the Lib Dems will have less than 326 seats between them, so would still need to get some of the "others" on side.

[MarkCorrigan]

Regardless of who is leader, Labour and the Lib Dems will have less than 326 seats between them, so would still need to get some of the "others" on side.

That's easy though, the SNP and PC will side with that alliance for a start, plus the Lib Dems have an ally in the Alliance party, and there's no way the Greens will go with the Tories.

[Debaser]

Just reflecting on the coverage (BBC in particular) and I though I was back watching Chris Morris on The Day Today and his goading of 'politicians' resulting in his 'It's War!' declaration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

I think even the thickest MP wouldn't commit to forming a government on live TV, even if broadcasters had committed themselves to fourteen or fifteen hours to fill.


Also, I can never tell if the presenters are actually serious when they think we should be overwhemed by their gimmicks and graphics. Has no-one at the Beeb who's involved in producing this stuff actually seen a movie or played a video game in the last ten years? Oooohhh...he touched a screen and dragged and dropped an icon...[faints]...

[Giggywig]

So out of the "Others" who is likely to be in a coalition with Labour + LibDems? And what concessions would have to be made for that to happen?

[Ashles]

Also, I can never tell if the presenters are actually serious when they think we should be overwhemed by their gimmicks and graphics. Has no-one at the Beeb who's involved in producing this stuff actually seen a movie or played a video game in the last ten years? Oooohhh...he touched a screen and dragged and dropped an icon...[faints]...

They seem so technological backward.

They still seem to get all excited whenever a story involves a Facebook group!

[Debaser]

That's easy though, the SNP and PC will side with that alliance for a start, plus the Lib Dems have an ally in the Alliance party, and there's no way the Greens will go with the Tories.

Looks like a Lab-Lib pact still needs 8 others to join them, Cons needs 18 (assuming 5 sinn fein MPs stay away).

[MarkCorrigan]

So out of the "Others" who is likely to be in a coalition with Labour + LibDems? And what concessions would have to be made for that to happen?

People likely from the others camp to go with the Tories = the DUP (8 seats)

Those likely to ignore everyone = Sinn Fein (5 seats)

Those likely to go with Labour and/or Lib Dem:

Alliance (1 seat)
SNP (6 seats)
PC (3 seats)
SDLP (3 seats)
Greens (1 seat)


Not a sodding clue = Independent (1 seat)

ETA: Having looked up the Northern Irish Independent, it seems she used to be UUP, so maybe she would go with Labour?

[funk de fino]

Looks to me the Lib Dems are damned if they jump* either way, so it looks like a minority Tory government.

Surely they can't go with the Tories, there support would hate that. They can't go with Labour due to the Gordon Brown effect (Time for Milliband to step forward?)

Pretty much a disaster for all parties, how the Tories couldn't secure a majority after Browns car crash leadership, the Lib Dems stayed around the same, so much for the debates effect, and Labour still have Brown.

Maybe a rerun vote after legal actions by people who did not get to vote and Brown is dumped by Labour before that.

[Giggywig]

People likely from the others camp to go with the Tories = the DUP (8 seats)

Those likely to ignore everyone = Sinn Fein (5 seats)

Those likely to go with Labour and/or Lib Dem:

Alliance (1 seat)
SNP (6 seats)
PC (3 seats)
SDLP (3 seats)
Greens (1 seat)


Not a sodding clue = Independent (1 seat)
Does getting the SNP on board mean giving in on matters related to Rolfe's pet project?

[jimbob]

ETA: Having looked up the Northern Irish Independent, it seems she used to be UUP, so maybe she would go with Labour?

That would be Tory wouldn't it?

[Delscottio]

Maybe a rerun vote after legal actions by people who did not get to vote and Brown is dumped by Labour before that.

I know this is propably slightly tongue in cheek, but I would assume that only the seats affected would be re-ran?

[Debaser]

That would be Tory wouldn't it?

No. She jumped ship specifically because the UUP got into bed with the Tories.

[Delscottio]

That would be Tory wouldn't it?

I think she has previously refused to work with Tories in the past.

[Debaser]

Does getting the SNP on board mean giving in on matters related to Rolfe's pet project?

Well the cost of getting Plaid on-board appears to be 300 million UK pounds (isn't that what the NIrish unionists also want?).

[funk de fino]

he he. It's getting tasty

It is clear that Labour is not the party for English people but only Immigrants , people on benefits and Scottish , Welsh and Northern Irish.

This is after he says that the only people who vote for Labour are people who hate the English. I guess he hasnt looked at the London constituencies.

[mbp]

Wouldn't it be in the long-term best interest of all the small parties to actively support any government which promised a referendum on PR? And would that not make a Lab/Lib coalition which made that promise unlikely to be toppled at least until the referendum had been held?

[Delscottio]

he he. It's getting tasty



This is after he says that the only people who vote for Labour are people who hate the English. I guess he hasnt looked at the London constituencies.

What site are you getting this from?, I would give him 20 minutes if he came up to Newcastle and the surrounding areas and spouted that rubbish. Unfortunatley for him ripping communities apart lingers in the memory.

Its good the open bigotry is coming out though.

[MarkCorrigan]

Does getting the SNP on board mean giving in on matters related to Rolfe's pet project?

A little, but the SNP and Labour have actually been pretty close for a while, despite what you might hear.

They aren't best buddies or anything, but the SNP would rather burn down Holyrood than side with the Tories.

[Undesired Walrus]

Do the Lib Dems still have zero BME MP's?

[Giggywig]

A little, but the SNP and Labour have actually been pretty close for a while, despite what you might hear.

They aren't best buddies or anything, but the SNP would rather burn down Holyrood than side with the Tories.
What if they side with nobody? What happens if the Labour + LibDem + assorted others doesn't get to a majority and the Tories can't get an alliance either?

[Debaser]

What if they side with nobody? What happens if the Labour + LibDem + assorted others doesn't get to a majority and the Tories can't get an alliance either?

We can have a minority government. It just means the governing party has to be more careful with what legislation it puts forward. The beartrap of a vote of no confidence in the government also looms larger.

[Giggywig]

We can have a minority government. It just means the governing party has to be more careful with what legislation it puts forward. The beartrap of a vote of no confidence in the government also looms larger.
How sneaky are the LibDems? Could they join Labour in exchange for proportional representation, only to turn around and side with the Tories and issue a vote of no confidence to gain more seats?

[andyandy]

So then............

What the feck happens now?

Broon likely to offer clegg PR plus his head
cameron likely to stick firm on PR, europe and defence

will clegg really side with the tories?

[Debaser]

How sneaky are the LibDems? Could they join Labour in exchange for proportional representation, only to turn around and side with the Tories and issue a vote of no confidence to gain more seats?

Quite possibly. But one of the items that seems to be part of the discussions is the length of time a coalition would work together.

And I don't think the LibDems would be thanked by the electorate for forcing them to vote again within a year or so.

[andyandy]

And what on earth happened to the lib dems? The rise and fall of Reggie Perrin Nick Clegg.....

[Giggywig]

Quite possibly. But one of the items that seems to be part of the discussions is the length of time a coalition would work together.

And I don't think the LibDems would be thanked by the electorate for forcing them to vote again within a year or so.

Interesting. Thanks :)

[Debaser]

So then............

What the feck happens now?

Broon likely to offer clegg PR plus his head
cameron likely to stick firm on PR, europe and defence

will clegg really side with the tories?

Apparently John Major has come out and said the presence of LibDems in a Conservative cabinet would be OK with him. I can't see Clegg abandoning a policy which pretty much defines LibDems simply to have his or Vince's egos stroked.

[Debaser]

@giggywig

Look for articles on the Scottish Parliament (or ask Rolfe, Architect and others) for how a minority party can apparently work.

[Small Town Jesus]

And what on earth happened to the lib dems? The rise and fall of Reggie Perrin Nick Clegg.....

For me, Clegg blew it when he announced during the campaign that he would team up with the Tories if they got the most seats.
The thought of voting LibDem and getting Cameron was enough to sway me and I'm sure many other wavering anti-Tory voters.
A huge mistake on his part.

[Undesired Walrus]

Adding on to the good news of Griffin getting crushed in B&D, BNP presence there has been utterly wiped out, with the BNP losing all of their 12 councillors. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/council/html/3892.stm)

[dudalb]

I think any Liberal/Labor government would be very unstable. THere would be a lot of resentment that the party that got the most votes, The Tories, like them or not, is pretty much excluded from government.

[geni]

For me, Clegg blew it when he announced during the campaign that he would team up with the Tories if they got the most seats.
The thought of voting LibDem and getting Cameron was enough to sway me and I'm sure many other wavering anti-Tory voters.
A huge mistake on his part.

Nope. Lib dem vote held up as well as could be expected against the tories. Their problem was more the failure to make any ground at all against labour.

[Small Town Jesus]

Nope. Lib dem vote held up as well as could be expected against the tories. Their problem was more the failure to make any ground at all against labour.

And one of the reasons for that was, as I said, Clegg's comment putting off those tempted to vote tactically for the LibDems and sticking with Labour.

[Undesired Walrus]

I think any Liberal/Labor government would be very unstable. THere would be a lot of resentment that the party that got the most votes, The Tories, like them or not, is pretty much excluded from government.

Oi, Yank, who are Labor?!

What's the reporting on this in the States?

[geni]

And one of the reasons for that was, as I said, Clegg's comment putting off those tempted to vote tactically for the LibDems and sticking with Labour.

If you are in a lab vs lib dem seat and you want to keep the tories out and are a labour supporter at heart there is no valid reason to tacticaly vote lib dem. Thus your position is not supported by the availible evidence.

If your position were correct the lib dems would have lost a lot more seats.

[MarkCorrigan]

For me, Clegg blew it when he announced during the campaign that he would team up with the Tories if they got the most seats.
The thought of voting LibDem and getting Cameron was enough to sway me and I'm sure many other wavering anti-Tory voters.
A huge mistake on his part.

I don't recall him saying that.

I remember him saying that the party with the most votes and seats should have the chance ot form a government, and I remember him saying he was open to talks with whoever came first.

I don't remember him saying that he would absolutely go with the Tories.

[Small Town Jesus]

If you are in a lab vs lib dem seat and you want to keep the tories out and are a labour supporter at heart there is no valid reason to tacticaly vote lib dem. Thus your position is not supported by the availible evidence.

If your position were correct the lib dems would have lost a lot more seats.

Who said I was in a lab vs lib dem seat? My constituency was brand new and therefore a three way split. As the Libs were experiencing a surge at the time (real or not) I and other like me were briefly tempted to vote for them as possibly the best way to try and out vote the Tory. Cleggs comment helped change my mind.
As it happened it was all academic as the Tory got in with a 3000 majority.

Also, I never said it was a major reason for the Libs poor showing last night, simply possibly one of them.

[Small Town Jesus]

I don't recall him saying that.

I remember him saying that the party with the most votes and seats should have the chance ot form a government, and I remember him saying he was open to talks with whoever came first.

I don't remember him saying that he would absolutely go with the Tories.

It was certainly interpreted that way and was commented on at the time that he would have been better off saying nothing. It certainly ruffled a few feathers in his own party.

[JihadJane]

Quite possibly. But one of the items that seems to be part of the discussions is the length of time a coalition would work together.

And I don't think the LibDems would be thanked by the electorate for forcing them to vote again within a year or so.

Why not? It's not that much effort to cast one vote per year!

[JihadJane]

Forget him now. His deeply unpleasent character is out of the house, and his party has been decimated.

He's gone.

How is Galloway any more unpleasant than the rest of the bunch of tossers who get into power?


Obviously a major guess, but could it be that in between getting mug onto and in various media his constituents thought he was ignoring them?


Additionally, perhaps he wasn't enthusiastic enough/was too enthusiastic about killing wild animals.

[dudalb]

Oi, Yank, who are Labor?!

What's the reporting on this in the States?

It is competing with the Floods in Tennesee for the #1 spot.
Pretty much straight up,LOts of explanations of what a Hung Parliament is, since we have nothing like this in the US. Some comparasion with the 2000 Us election, particularly the accusation of voter irregularities.
The defeat of Gorgeous George is getting a lot of attention, since, sad to say, Galloway has gotten more publicity in the US then any other member of Parliament (except for the PM) until Clegg got a boom recently.
C Span has straight feed of the BBC coverage last night. Probably got a huge boost in viewership from the Brit ExPat community in the US.....

[dudalb]

How is Galloway any more unpleasant than the rest of the bunch of tossers who get into power?

Ah, sorry that your hero got humiliated yesterday?

[MarkCorrigan]

How is Galloway any more unpleasant than the rest of the bunch of tossers who get into power?

I'm not surprised you think he's so glorious, but honestly? He's corrupt (really really corrupt, not like the namby-pamby expenses claims corrupt of most of them) and he actively supports a group which, no matter what else you say about them, actively aims to target civilians and uses child soldiers.

That's pretty disgraceful when compared to making the taxpayer pay for a porn film or some wrapping paper.

[Rolfe]

Ouch, where's Rolfe...


Just for the record, I was at the count in Dumfries. I didn't get home till 5.30am, and I went to bed! I'm now catching up with the thread.

Rolfe.

[commandlinegamer]

He's corrupt (really really corrupt

I just wonder where he stores all those millions of barrels of oil of his. It's not like a flat in London or his Portugal house will have that big a garden.

[Delscottio]

Its quite interesting looking at the overall National results here. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/

The tories only improved their percentage of the vote from last time by 3.8%That seems really really low, the next biggest increase in their percentage vote is the BNP :mad:

Mind our system is crap when you look at the popular vote.

[mbp]

If there was to be a referendum about about proportional representation do you think it is likely to pass? Or would most people be happy to keep the system they know?

[Debaser]

Why not? It's not that much effort to cast one vote per year!

General Election February 1974 - 31.3m turnout

General Election October 1974 - 29.1m turnout

Evidently it is...although it would probably depend on the reason for calling the second election.

[Debaser]

Forward with Cameron to a classless society!!

18 out of 306 MPs are from Eton...

[Undesired Walrus]

Although one of them is black so that makes it all alright.

[Fiona]

Well I remember prince charles saying in all seriousness that he spoke for the ordinary people ...

[Lothian]

Although one of them is black so that makes it all alright.Is he 40 and from Portsmouth with 30 years service in the navy ?

[Matthew Best]

In related news to our weird electoral system, in the Great Yarmouth council elections two candidates tied on 1,034 votes. The returning officer offered them a pack of cards and told them that the candidate who drew the highest number would win. Tory Bob Peck picked a three while Labour's Charlie Marsden drew a seven and claimed the seat!

[Rolfe]

Glasgow East goes to Labour.

The SNP will NOT be pleased.


Anybody who thought we were going to hold that seat was in cloud cuckoo land. It could only have happened with an enormous sea-change towards the SNP, which is always unlikely to happen in a Westminster election.

Soapy Sam is right about "paint a brick wall red and they'll vote for it". I don't pretend to understand it. Someone last night said, "It's aye been", which is about as close as you'll get. Conservative with a small c.

At Westminster elections there always tends to be a squeeze as the vast bulk of the publicity focusses on "the three main parties", and the TV debate situation was only part of that. This time it was always going to be bad, because Labour quite legitimately represented that they might hang on if only their core vote stayed on board. Still, experience shows that even when it's blindingly certain that the Tories are going to get a landslide in England, Scottish Labour still manages to sell that line. The SNP put on a couple of percentage points compared to 2005, but was still well down on the Euro-elections.

Interestingly, it looks as if the nationalist parties (9 seats) might hold some measure of balance of power. It's all very tricky though, because experience also shows that it's almost impossible for the SNP to support any Tory proposal at all, even if it's entirely uncontentious and beneficial.

Rolfe.

[mummymonkey]

Not a single seat in Scotland changed hands (wrt 2005). It's like the last 5 years never happened. (Also suggests the "TV debate effect" is zero.)

[Undesired Walrus]

Why are Labour doing so well in the council elections?

[funk de fino]

How is Galloway any more unpleasant than the rest of the bunch of tossers who get into power?

Think about it. It'll come.

[jimbob]

No. She jumped ship specifically because the UUP got into bed with the Tories.


Thanks...

But... I thought that the Conservative and Unionist Party historically didn't stand in NI because of an agreement with the UUP.

[Debaser]

Thanks...

But... I thought that the Conservative and Unionist Party historically didn't stand in NI because of an agreement with the UUP.

I think this was a more official tie-up than gentlemen's agreement, and she seems to have been a more left-leaning unionist.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8587061.stm

[zooterkin]

I've only just managed to check the results in my home constituency (has a rather stressful day helping my Mum move house yesterday, mostly waiting for the chain to complete). No great surprises, John Redwood held on to Wokingham with an increased share of the vote, though one ward out of the twenty (not mine) did go from Conservative to Lib-Dem in the local council election, but that had no effect overall.

[commandlinegamer]

Anyone know if Kelvin McKenzie has left the country yet (apparently he promised to go to Belize if there were a hung parliament)?

[MarkCorrigan]

Anyone know if Kelvin McKenzie has left the country yet (apparently he promised to go to Belize if there were a hung parliament)?

That filthy piece of sub-human slime?

I hope he leaves soon. On his own. Auto-piloted plane. Set to fly via Iceland....

[funk de fino]

That filthy piece of sub-human slime?

I think that is too kind

I hope he leaves soon. On his own. Auto-piloted plane. Set to fly via Iceland....

Yep

[zooterkin]

That filthy piece of sub-human slime?

I hope he leaves soon. On his own. Auto-piloted plane. Set to fly via Iceland....

With Piers Morgan alongside him...

[Skeptic]

So far, so good for Britain.

1). Idiotic Islamist buffoon (George Galloway) tossed out.
2). Idiotic Islamist buffoon's protege (Salma Yaqoob) lost.
3). Neo-fascists (BNP) won not a single seat.
4). Isolationist cranks (UKIP) cut down to their natural size.
5). Self-important Lib-dem know-it-alls get less than 10%.

There is some sanity in Britain after all.

[Evilgiraffe]

5). Self-important Lib-dem know-it-alls get less than 10%.

There is some sanity in Britain after all.

And yet they polled 24% of the popular vote. Sanity... not so much.

[MarkCorrigan]

With Piers Morgan alongside him...

I would say yes, but I actually found myself agreeing with Piers on the election program...

[Skeptic]

The Jerusalem post's reaction -- "Divided electorate? Post-election confusion? Sounds familiar (http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?ID=175034&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)..."

[Undesired Walrus]

5). Self-important Lib-dem know-it-alls get less than 10%.

There is some sanity in Britain after all.

???

[Architect]

Don't encourage him.

[Rockingham, AH Deist]

So far, so good for Britain.

1). Idiotic Islamist buffoon (George Galloway) tossed out.
2). Idiotic Islamist buffoon's protege (Salma Yaqoob) lost.
3). Neo-fascists (BNP) won not a single seat.
4). Isolationist cranks (UKIP) cut down to their natural size.
5). Self-important Lib-dem know-it-alls get less than 10%.

There is some sanity in Britain after all.

1)You mean the idiotic Islamist buffoon who was the only Labour MP with the courage to oppose the Iraq war?
4)It's isolationist crankery to want to withdraw from an unelected government(EU)? Go isolationist crankery, if so.
5)A real triumph for democracy:rolleyes:

[Skeptic]

1)You mean the idiotic Islamist buffoon who was the only Labour MP with the courage to oppose the Iraq war?

Well, he was paid very good money (http://www.google.co.il/imgres?imgurl=http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/lefdts_galloway.jpg&imgrefurl=http://freedomsfidelity.blogspot.com/2006/01/stooge-galloway-excuse-language-but.html&usg=__GmXyl5OgxTVBmANkpoKSq1CA_1M=&h=432&w=475&sz=38&hl=iw&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=zbFkgW02VaeQoM:&tbnh=117&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgalloway%2Bin%2Bcelebrity%2Bshow%26um %3D1%26hl%3Diw%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26tbs%3Disch:1) by Saddam to do so, and was a good friend of the the mass-murdering thug Saddam for a long while, so it's not so much "courage" as "being bought".

He also had the "courage" to give Hamas tons of money, thus making him and the British taxpayer supporters of Hamas' goal to genocide the Jews, the "courage" to practically never show up to votes in Parliament, etc., etc., etc.

But I can't say he lacks courage. Anybody who will show up like this (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/lefdts_galloway.jpg) in public has balls.

As the photo clearly shows, too.

[Undesired Walrus]

1)You mean the idiotic Islamist buffoon who was the only Labour MP with the courage to oppose the Iraq war?


The only one? Do you believe that?

[funk de fino]

The only one? Do you believe that?

Sadly, I think he probably does.

[Evilgiraffe]

1)You mean the idiotic Islamist buffoon who was the only Labour MP with the courage to oppose the Iraq war?


Galloway, the only Labour MP to oppose the war? Don't make me laugh.
There were far more notable MPs to take a stance against the invasion of Iraq.

Robin Cook, anyone?

[Rolfe]

First name I thought of, certainly. (Cook, I mean.)

Rolfe.

[Lothian]

Galloway, the only Labour MP to oppose the war? Don't make me laugh.
There were far more notable MPs to take a stance against the invasion of Iraq.

Robin Cook, anyone?

First name I thought of, certainly. (Cook, I mean.)

Rolfe.You both say that but apart from the following can you name a single one?

Miss Diane Abbott Hackney North and Stoke Newington Lab no
Mr Graham Allen Nottingham North Lab no
Mr John Austin Erith and Thamesmead Lab no
Mr Tony Banks West Ham Lab no
Mr Harry Barnes North East Derbyshire Lab no
Mr John Battle Leeds West Lab no
Miss Anne Begg Aberdeen South Lab no
Mr Andrew Bennett Denton and Reddish Lab no
Dr Roger Berry Kingswood Lab no
Mr Harold Best Leeds North West Lab no
Mr Bob Blizzard Waveney Lab no
Mr Keith Bradley Manchester, Withington Lab no
Mrs Anne Campbell Cambridge Lab no
Mr Ronnie Campbell Blyth Valley Lab no
Mr Martin Caton Gower Lab no
Mr David Chaytor Bury North Lab no
Mr Michael Clapham Barnsley West and Penistone Lab no
Ms Helen Clark Peterborough Lab no
Mr Tony Clarke Northampton South Lab no
Mr Harry Cohen Leyton and Wanstead Lab no
Mr Michael Connarty Falkirk East Lab no
Mr Robin Cook Livingston Lab no
Mr Jeremy Corbyn Islington North Lab no
Mr Jim Cousins Newcastle upon Tyne Central Lab no
Mr David Crausby Bolton North East Lab no
Mrs Ann Cryer Keighley Lab no
Mr John Cryer Hornchurch Lab no
Mr Tam Dalyell Linlithgow Lab no
Mr Ian Davidson Glasgow Pollok Lab no
Mr Terry Davis Birmingham, Hodge Hill Lab no
Mr Hilton Dawson Lancaster and Wyre Lab no
Mr John Denham Southampton, Itchen Lab no
Mr Jim Dobbin Heywood and Middleton Lab no
Mr Clive Efford Eltham Lab no
Mr Mark Fisher Stoke-on-Trent Central Lab no
Mr Paul Flynn Newport West Lab no
Mr George Galloway Glasgow Kelvin whilst Lab no
Mr Neil Gerrard Walthamstow Lab no
Mr John Grogan Selby Lab no
Mr David Hamilton Midlothian Lab no
Mr Doug Henderson Newcastle upon Tyne North Lab no
Mr David Heyes Ashton-under-Lyne Lab no
Mr David Hinchliffe Wakefield Lab no
Ms Kate Hoey Vauxhall Lab no
Mr Kelvin Hopkins Luton North Lab no
Ms Glenda Jackson Hampstead and Highgate Lab no
Mr Jon Owen Jones Cardiff Central Lab no
Dr Lynne Jones Birmingham, Selly Oak Lab no
Mr Peter Kilfoyle Liverpool, Walton Lab no
Mr Mark Lazarowicz Edinburgh North and Leith Lab no
Mr Terry Lewis Worsley Lab no
Mr Tony Lloyd Manchester Central Lab tellno
Mr Iain Luke Dundee East Lab no
Mr John Lyons Strathkelvin and Bearsden Lab no
Mrs Alice Mahon Halifax Lab no
Dr Jim Marshall Leicester South Lab no
Mr Robert Marshall-Andrews Medway Lab no
Ms Chris McCafferty Calder Valley Lab no
Mr John McDonnell Hayes and Harlington Lab no
Ms Ann McKechin Glasgow Maryhill Lab no
Mr Kevin McNamara Kingston upon Hull North Lab no
Ms Julie Morgan Cardiff North Lab no
Ms Linda Perham Ilford North Lab no
Mr Gordon Prentice Pendle Lab no
Mr Gwyn Prosser Dover Lab no
Mr Mohammad Sarwar Glasgow Govan Lab no
Mr Malcolm Savidge Aberdeen North Lab no
Mr Phil Sawford Kettering Lab no
Mr Brian Sedgemore Hackney South and Shoreditch Lab no
Mr Alan Simpson Nottingham South Lab no
Mr Marsha Singh Bradford West Lab no
Mr Chris Smith Islington South and Finsbury Lab no
Mr Llew Smith Blaenau Gwent Lab no
Mr George Stevenson Stoke-on-Trent South Lab no
Dr Gavin Strang Edinburgh East and Musselburgh Lab no
Mr Graham Stringer Manchester, Blackley Lab no
Mr David Taylor North West Leicestershire Lab no
Mr Jon Trickett Hemsworth Lab no
Dr Desmond Turner Brighton, Kemptown Lab no
Dr Rudi Vis Finchley and Golders Green Lab no
Ms Joan Walley Stoke-on-Trent North Lab no
Mr Robert Wareing Liverpool, West Derby Lab no
Mrs Betty Williams Conwy Lab no
Mr Mike Wood Batley and Spen Lab no
Mr Tony Worthington Clydebank and Milngavie Lab no

[Rolfe]

It's not something I'm any expert in. I merely thought "Robin Cook" when presented with the proposition that Galloway was the only opponent.

You'll have to ask EvilGiraffe which others he was thinking about.

Rolfe.

[Evilgiraffe]

I agree with Rolfe. I wasn't presenting Mr Cook as the only alternative, merely one that sprang easily to mind.

To be honest, this has got so far from the original point of the thread that it's hardly worth pursuing. I think that we can probably agree that Skeptic and Rockingham are quite, quite wrong about their respective points.

[Undesired Walrus]

I think that we can probably agree that Skeptic and Rockingham are quite, quite wrong about their respective points.

Well, Skeptic was quite right about Galloway being a buffoon and the BNP being fascists.

[Undesired Walrus]

4)It's isolationist crankery to want to withdraw from an unelected government(EU)? Go isolationist crankery, if so.


I seem to remember voting in a EU election last year, and the Lisbon Treaty giving the EU Parliament more power over the council.

[Evilgiraffe]

Well, Skeptic was quite right about Galloway being a buffoon and the BNP being fascists.

Ok, that was right.
I still don't know what Skeptic's got against the Lib-Dems or Parliament having a make-up that more accurately represents the way people voted.

[Lothian]

It's not something I'm any expert in. I merely thought "Robin Cook" when presented with the proposition that Galloway was the only opponent.

You'll have to ask EvilGiraffe which others he was thinking about.

Rolfe.

I agree with Rolfe. I wasn't presenting Mr Cook as the only alternative, merely one that sprang easily to mind. I obviously need to work on my "apart from ..... what have the romans ever done for us" allegories.

[Rolfe]

Galloway, the only Labour MP to oppose the war? Don't make me laugh.
There were far more notable MPs to take a stance against the invasion of Iraq.

Robin Cook, anyone?


I agree with Rolfe. I wasn't presenting Mr Cook as the only alternative, merely one that sprang easily to mind.


You did indicate that there was more than one other. I agree it's fairly irrelevant, but does anyone have any info on who, and how many? We've been given a list of those that didn't oppose the war, but I don't know who's missing.

Rolfe.

[zooterkin]

You did indicate that there was more than one other. I agree it's fairly irrelevant, but does anyone have any info on who, and how many? We've been given a list of those that didn't oppose the war, but I don't know who's missing.

Rolfe.

Given that both Cook and Galloway are on Lothian's list, isn't that the list of Labour MPs who did oppose the war?

ETA: There are 85 names on the list.

[Lothian]

Given that both Cook and Galloway are on Lothian's list, isn't that the list of Labour MPs who did oppose the war?

ETA: There are 85 names on the list.Yes it is the list of Labour MPs who opposed the motion, 3 Tories voted against it as did all Libdems, SNP, & PC MPs who voted. There were, as usual, a number who did not vote either way.

Link (http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2003-03-18&number=118)

[Soapy Sam]

Well, Skeptic was quite right about Galloway being a buffoon and the BNP being fascists.

I'm no fan of Gorgeous George, but if he's a buffoon , what can we say about the intellect of the Senatorial committee he appeared to run rings around?

I wouldn't trust Galloway as far as I could kick him, but I don't think he's a buffoon.

[Evilgiraffe]

I obviously need to work on my "apart from ..... what have the romans ever done for us" allegories.

Python detector broke over the weekend and I'm waiting for spare parts. :D

Back to the derail. You provided plenty of evidence that the Labour vote to invade Iraq was far from unanimous. Ergo, Rockingham is badly wrong on this point.

In other news, Skeptic might be right about the BNP being fascists but still hasn't explained why our disproportionate parliament is a good thing.

[Undesired Walrus]

I'm no fan of Gorgeous George, but if he's a buffoon , what can we say about the intellect of the Senatorial committee he appeared to run rings around?

I wouldn't trust Galloway as far as I could kick him, but I don't think he's a buffoon.

He's a buffoon because he travelled down to the East End screaming about the evil imperialism of Bush and Blair in Iraq while leaving out the part about his support for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan which led to the deaths of 2 Million Afghan civilians and the displacement of 5 Million more.

[JihadJane]

Galloway, the only Labour MP to oppose the war? Don't make me laugh.
There were far more notable MPs to take a stance against the invasion of Iraq.

Robin Cook, anyone?

Most minced their words out of respect for the corrupt establishment.


Galloway didn't. He gave the most accurate description of the Blair and Bush position, who, he said, had:

"lied to the British Air Force and Navy, when they said the battle of Iraq would be very quick and easy. They attacked Iraq like wolves..."

He gave the best advice to British troops: "... the best thing British troops can do is to refuse to obey illegal orders."

[Undesired Walrus]

"lied to the British Air Force and Navy, when they said the battle of Iraq would be very quick and easy. They attacked Iraq like wolves..."


See my point above about his support for the devastating war in Afghanistan. Could he be any more of a hypocrite?

[Evilgiraffe]

Most minced their words out of respect for the corrupt establishment.


Galloway didn't. He gave the most accurate description of the Blair and Bush position, who, he said, had:

"lied to the British Air Force and Navy, when they said the battle of Iraq would be very quick and easy. They attacked Iraq like wolves..."

He gave the best advice to British troops: "... the best thing British troops can do is to refuse to obey illegal orders."

I refer you back to the aforementioned Mr Cook:

Ironically, it is only because Iraq's military forces are so weak that we can even contemplate its invasion. Some advocates of conflict claim that Saddam's forces are so weak, so demoralised and so badly equipped that the war will be over in a few days.

We cannot base our military strategy on the assumption that Saddam is weak and at the same time justify pre-emptive action on the claim that he is a threat.

Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction in the commonly understood sense of the term - namely a credible device capable of being delivered against a strategic city target.

It probably still has biological toxins and battlefield chemical munitions, but it has had them since the 1980s when US companies sold Saddam anthrax agents and the then British Government approved chemical and munitions factories.

Why is it now so urgent that we should take military action to disarm a military capacity that has been there for 20 years, and which we helped to create?

Why is it necessary to resort to war this week, while Saddam's ambition to complete his weapons programme is blocked by the presence of UN inspectors?

So... Gorgeous George was the sole voice of reason during the build-up to invasion? I think not.

[funk de fino]

Most minced their words out of respect for the corrupt establishment.


Galloway didn't. He gave the most accurate description of the Blair and Bush position, who, he said, had:

"lied to the British Air Force and Navy, when they said the battle of Iraq would be very quick and easy. They attacked Iraq like wolves..."

He gave the best advice to British troops: "... the best thing British troops can do is to refuse to obey illegal orders."

The lying trash has gone. Vanquished. Pick another hero.

[Soapy Sam]

He's a buffoon because he travelled down to the East End screaming about the evil imperialism of Bush and Blair in Iraq while leaving out the part about his support for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan which led to the deaths of 2 Million Afghan civilians and the displacement of 5 Million more.
That would make him a hypocrite, not a buffoon.
But for a politician, hypocrisy comes with the territory.

[commandlinegamer]

Just in case this hasn't already been posted: Adam Boulton, presenter with Sky News nearly coming to blows with Alastair Campbell shortly after the announcement of Brown standing down.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/05/sky-news-angry-exchanges-160

[Debaser]

God, I'm actually with Campbell on this*, there's a number of supposedly impartial commentators seem to be either giving away their allegiances or just parading their ignorance more than usual.


I do feel dirty*...

[Rolfe]

You feel dirty? I just found myself in 100% agreement with John Reid, appearing on Panorama.

Rolfe.

[Debaser]

Pour yourself a good stiff drink right now...

[mummymonkey]

Just in case this hasn't already been posted: Adam Boulton, presenter with Sky News nearly coming to blows with Alastair Campbell shortly after the announcement of Brown standing down.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/05/sky-news-angry-exchanges-160

Boulton looked distraught. The thought of a "Not Tory" government has obviously got to him.

[andyandy]

Just in case this hasn't already been posted: Adam Boulton, presenter with Sky News nearly coming to blows with Alastair Campbell shortly after the announcement of Brown standing down.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/05/sky-news-angry-exchanges-160

He really loses his cool - pretty unprofessional but great to watch. Campbell comes off like the consumate pro he is - regardless of what you think of him, he always give a fantastic interview - you can see why he's the master of spin.

It would have been great to see Boulton lamp him though. That would have made my week :D

[Rolfe]

Campbell was of course trolling, and he caught a big one.

Rolfe.

[Evilgiraffe]

Winding up Adam Boulton isn't exactly the hardest thing Campell's ever done, now, is it?

[commandlinegamer]

Campbell, from Twitter:

'When JP punched someone, pompous Boulton said he must go! Wonder if same rules for TV hacks losing it live. Thought the headbutt imminent.'

http://twitter.com/campbellclaret

[Soapy Sam]

So long as there's a twig in the wood, there'll be a twist in a Campbell.

[commandlinegamer]

Daily Mail website [1] leads today with - The men who are trying to steal Britain's election - with a grim looking Peter Mandelson and Alastair Campbell pictured. Sounds like the Quail panicking their man might not get in.

[1] - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

[JihadJane]

I refer you back to the aforementioned Mr Cook:



So... Gorgeous George was the sole voice of reason during the build-up to invasion? I think not.


I didn't say he was the sole voice of reason. I said he didn't mince his words. He called a crime a crime.

[Ashles]

So it suddenly look like the Lib Dems are really seriously considering Labour once again.

David Cameron is sounding quite worried now, poor guy. He's agreeing to a variant of PR (the Alternative Vote) which cannot be pleasing a lot of the Tory party. They're trying to make is sound tough ('Final offer') but it must be a bit galling to find themselves in this position after how the polls looked a few months ago.

[Ashles]

Daily Mail website [1] leads today with - The men who are trying to steal Britain's election - with a grim looking Peter Mandelson and Alastair Campbell pictured. Sounds like the Quail panicking their man might not get in.

[1] - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

One thing I am getting a bit fed up of is the newspapers screaming their political stance without any attempt at reason or balance (I know this isn't exactly new but it's getting silly now').

Yes, yes we all know what party each newpaper supports by now. And yes they are all embarassing themselves by continuously demonstrating how they haven't managed to alter anyone's minds drastically in any particular direction.

[Lothian]

David Cameron is sounding quite worried now, poor guy. He's agreeing to a variant of PR (the Alternative Vote) which cannot be pleasing a lot of the Tory party. They're trying to make is sound tough ('Final offer') but it must be a bit galling to find themselves in this position after how the polls looked a few months ago.AV is not a form of PR it is an alternative way of calcualting where the post is that needs to be passed in each constituency. The ELECTORAL REFORM SOCIETY has guestimated the seats on various voting systems. Figures from teh grauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/may/10/proportional-representation-general-election-2010).
VOTE SYSTEM |CON| LAB |LIB DEM |SNP| PC|Other
FPTP: TOTALS | 307 |258 | 57| 6 |3 | 19
AV: TOTALS |281 |262 | 79 | 5 | 3 |20
AV+: TOTALS |275 | 234 |110 | 9 | 3 | 19
STV: TOTALS |246 | 207 | 162 | 13| 4 |18

[Last of the Fraggles]

AV is not a form of PR it is an alternative way of calcualting where the post is that needs to be passed in each constituency. The ELECTORAL REFORM SOCIETY has guestimated the seats on various voting systems. Figures from teh grauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/may/10/proportional-representation-general-election-2010).
VOTE SYSTEM |CON| LAB |LIB DEM |SNP| PC|Other
FPTP: TOTALS | 307 |258 | 57| 6 |3 | 19
AV: TOTALS |281 |262 | 79 | 5 | 3 |20
AV+: TOTALS |275 | 234 |110 | 9 | 3 | 19
STV: TOTALS |246 | 207 | 162 | 13| 4 |18


While I understand why they publish those numbers I think they are a bit misleading to be honest. With a PR system the political system would be totally different, you would see a re-arrangement/realignment of the parties and people's voting patterns would change.

It's difficult to call how it would work out, my own belief is you would see quite a swing away from Lab/Con towards the smaller parties but who knows.

[Lothian]

While I understand why they publish those numbers I think they are a bit misleading to be honest. With a PR system the political system would be totally different, you would see a re-arrangement/realignment of the parties and people's voting patterns would change.

It's difficult to call how it would work out, my own belief is you would see quite a swing away from Lab/Con towards the smaller parties but who knows.I agree, they are way out on the smaller parties. However I think we can conclude that AV is not going to produce a dramatically different result from FPTP.

[Debaser]

One thing I am getting a bit fed up of is the newspapers screaming their political stance without any attempt at reason or balance (I know this isn't exactly new but it's getting silly now').

Yes, yes we all know what party each newpaper supports by now. And yes they are all embarassing themselves by continuously demonstrating how they haven't managed to alter anyone's minds drastically in any particular direction.

I've got to say I'm fed up with supposedly professional political correspondents, in both print media and on TV, seemingly not having an idea how the parliamentary system that they report and pronounce upon daily, actually works.

[commandlinegamer]

Still people commenting on Have Your Say (BBC) and other forums not grasping the hungness aspect of this election, viz. a majority of the population did not vote for the Conservatives, they simply got the most votes and seats but failed to secure a parliamentary majority.

Enemies of Reason had a good commentary on how the complexity of this result is not liked by the media:

http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/05/09/rejoice-at-the-complexity/

[Rolfe]

So what? Name the last time any party could say that the majority of the population voted for them.

Rolfe.

[Lothian]

So what? Name the last time any party could say that the majority of the population voted for them.

Rolfe.1935. What do I win?

[richardm]

1935. What do I win?

A copy of David Cameron's acceptance speech. (Slightly damaged but otherwise unused)

[Ashles]

Still people commenting on Have Your Say (BBC) and other forums not grasping the hungness aspect of this election, viz. a majority of the population did not vote for the Conservatives, they simply got the most votes and seats but failed to secure a parliamentary majority.

Enemies of Reason had a good commentary on how the complexity of this result is not liked by the media:

http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/05/09/rejoice-at-the-complexity/


Ooh I like that article.

The writer has also summed up what I was trying to say about the newspapers better than I managed to do:

And so, when you get a hung parliament, I reckon it's disliked by the papers for two reasons - well many more than two, if I'm going to try and stick to the principles I've outlined in this post, but we'll start with two and fan out from there. Firstly, their chosen candidates didn't win. That's something irritating, because it makes them look a little bit less than powerful. Sure, David Cameron received 36% of the popular vote, and got 47% of the seats - but it wasn't a convincing victory. Newspapers told their readers to vote for him. They didn't all do that. Now you could say that most of their readers did vote for him, but we have no evidence that's the case. They might have roundly ignored the advice of their inky friends, and put Xs down for all kinds of other candidates. So whatever way you look at it, the papers look like mugs for saying that Cameron was the only hope to save Britain, and their readers said "meh". To them, that's annoying. To me, it's great. But there you are.

(And obviously the same principle applies, even more so, for any papers who insisted we vote for Brown or Clegg)

[Dragon]

So what? Name the last time any party could say that the majority of the population voted for them.

Rolfe.Absolutely - any party getting 40% of the vote would have a decent to whopping majority in the Commons but still not the support of 60% of voters.

[Last of the Fraggles]

So what? Name the last time any party could say that the majority of the population voted for them.

Rolfe.

In this system you don't need a majority of votes but you do need a majority of seats. If the Tories can't persuade the public to give them a majority of the seats and can't persuade the other parties to jump on board their coalition then to me that's a problem for the Tories not anyone else.

If people don't like the system..... well they can change it..... except the Tories don't want any change.

[Ashles]

In this system you don't need a majority of votes but you do need a majority of seats. If the Tories can't persuade the public to give them a majority of the seats and can't persuade the other parties to jump on board their coalition then to me that's a problem for the Tories not anyone else.

If people don't like the system..... well they can change it..... except the Tories don't want any change.


Bu-But their posters said it was time for change... didn't they?

[Cuddles]

I agree, they are way out on the smaller parties. However I think we can conclude that AV is not going to produce a dramatically different result from FPTP.

Depends how dramatic you want your difference. Given those figures, it would be different enough for a Lab/Lib coalition to have a solid majority.

[Ashles]

Latest development (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8674103.stm):

Labour recognise their efforts to do a deal with the Lib Dems to stay in power are over, the BBC understands.
The decision appears to clear the way for a Lib Dem and Tory deal which would see David Cameron succeeding Labour's Gordon Brown as prime minister.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Brown resigning tonight according to Sky.

[dudalb]

That some people are minmizing the fact that the Tories, like them or not, got the most votes, and want to excluse them from any real voice in government, seems to me to indicate a "I like Democracy..except when I don't like the election results" attitude.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

1935. What do I win?

Nothing.

The question was a majority of the population.

1935 didn't even get a majority of the electorate (turnout 71.1%).

And of course the question asked when was the last time a party could say that the majority of the population voted for them. Given that parties consist of politicians, and that groups traditional relationship with the truth, the answer has to be 2010 as I am sure someone will claim the Tories got a majority.

[commandlinegamer]

The long hours of negotiating over the past few days appear to have taken their toll on William Hague:

http://twitpic.com/1myrdp

[commandlinegamer]

Gordon resigns 7.18 BST

[Last of the Fraggles]

That some people are minmizing the fact that the Tories, like them or not, got the most votes, and want to excluse them from any real voice in government, seems to me to indicate a "I like Democracy..except when I don't like the election results" attitude.

The system we have is working the way the system works. The Tories seem to want to preserve it in its entirety so I guess they can't complain.

[Rockingham, AH Deist]

The only one? Do you believe that?
Ok not the only one. But the only one to be kicked out for doing so(on account of not doing so in a lukewarm manner).

I seem to remember voting in a EU election last year, and the Lisbon Treaty giving the EU Parliament more power over the council.
"More power" yes, but nonetheless the sole elected element of the EU, its parliament, does not have even a plurality of power in the EU.

Furthermore, most countries din't even get a vote on that treaty, despite the fact that many such as the UK would have rejected it.

The EU is currently the project of bureacrats, elites and vested interests(look at the blatantly corrupt and disastrous Common Agricultural Policy, for example). What are the odds that it will ever be as democratic as most of the national politics(low I suspect). Furthermore it covers a huge and incredibly diverse population- the idea that anything other then the broadest brush stroke policies can suit such a huge group which have very little in common is ludicrous on the face of it. But hey, we exist in a world in which Utah and Massachussets are part of the same federation:rolleyes:-compared to that, the EU appears almost the brainchild of a sentient being.

[Debaser]

That some people are minmizing the fact that the Tories, like them or not, got the most votes, and want to exclude them from any real voice in government, seems to me to indicate a "I like Democracy..except when I don't like the election results" attitude.

Unfortunately the people of Britain have had enough experience of parties with ONE-THIRD of the popular vote having enough seats to completely ignore the wishes of the other TWO-THIRDS of the electorate and ram through legislation to last them many lifetimes.

We haven't had anything resembling 'consensus government' since long before 1979, but that's the dread date in most peoples minds.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

The system we have is working the way the system works. The Tories seem to want to preserve it in its entirety so I guess they can't complain.

I'm not sure the events of the last few days (including the way the Lib Dems have behaved) is going to do much for the case of PR.

After all PR pretty much guarantees this situation after every election.

[MarkCorrigan]

Mr Cameron mentioned reforming the voting system.

Interesting.

[Debaser]

I'm not sure the events of the last few days (including the way the Lib Dems have behaved) is going to do much for the case of PR.

After all PR pretty much guarantees this situation after every election.

Maybe we've been lucky, but here in Leeds the sky hasn't yet fallen in.

I know you're not passing comment, good or ill, on what's been happening but all this weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth we've had from the media these past few days has just been a pain.

That politicians have, shock horror, been talking to each other behind closed doors....well I never. And taken FIVE days to form a government? That's just disgraceful.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Maybe we've been lucky, but here in Leeds the sky hasn't yet fallen in.

I know you're not passing comment, good or ill, on what's been happening but all this weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth we've had from the media these past few days has just been a pain.

That politicians have, shock horror, been talking to each other behind closed doors....well I never. And taken FIVE days to form a government? That's just disgraceful.

Indeed.

However I have also not seen anything remotely democratic about Clegg prostituting his party to the highest bidder.

And now that Cameron is PM, we will have to see how easy it is to pass the legislation that the Tory backbenchers really don't support. Especially if the polls tell them that they would be better of going to the polls for a sole mandate.

[Debaser]

Indeed.

However I have also not seen anything remotely democratic about Clegg prostituting his party to the highest bidder.


But that's always been on the cards in our system. It's just been dumb luck we've gone so long without seeing it.

[zooterkin]

There was a bit of sanity on Radio 4 earlier, when it was pointed out that Birmingham is being run by a Tory/Lib-Dem coalition, which is quite successfully taking hard decisions about redundancies and controlling a substantial budget, and the city has not yet descended into anarchy (as far as one can tell in Birmingham).

[Debaser]

There was a bit of sanity on Radio 4 earlier, when it was pointed out that Birmingham is being run by a Tory/Lib-Dem coalition, which is quite successfully taking hard decisions about redundancies and controlling a substantial budget, and the city has not yet descended into anarchy (as far as one can tell in Birmingham).

Much saner than somthing I saw on the news where the chairman of the Conservative Way Forward (I think) was asking the question 'if there is a Lib-Con coalition what happens on local councils where these parties are in opposition?'.

Well, surely it's obvious. Lib-Dems and Conservatives are hereby born again as brothers and sisters, henceforth bound together, forever. :rolleyes:

[Delscottio]

I cant understand how a coalition is possible between two parties so far apart in policy. I wonder what the feeling is like at the lib dem grassroots.
Interesting times ahead.

[andyandy]

I cant understand how a coalition is possible between two parties so far apart in policy. I wonder what the feeling is like at the lib dem grassroots.
Interesting times ahead.

It's hard to see how this will be good for the Lib Dems - they get tied to what will be very unpopular decisions, and come the next election who's going to vote for them? The electorate will simply choose Lab or Con - figuring that it's better they choose than the liberals....

it would have been better for them to let the tories run a minority government. Of course, politicians only really get into politics for the power, so perhaps it's not so surprising Clegg fancied his moment in the sun....

[uk_dave]

I reckon the World Cup thread will be longer.;)

[MarkCorrigan]

I have to point out that this alliance has to pass muster at two levels with both parties.

First the MP's vote on it, and if that somehow manages to pass, which I doubt, it has to pass the Executive of both parties.

[Debaser]

I reckon the World Cup thread will be longer.;)

Well that goes without saying, we'll be discussing something important then...

[Undesired Walrus]

I have to point out that this alliance has to pass muster at two levels with both parties.

First the MP's vote on it, and if that somehow manages to pass, which I doubt, it has to pass the Executive of both parties.

You do? I think it's a certainty it will pass. Would be political suicide to not.

[Ashles]

It's hard to see how this will be good for the Lib Dems - they get tied to what will be very unpopular decisions, and come the next election who's going to vote for them? The electorate will simply choose Lab or Con - figuring that it's better they choose than the liberals....

it would have been better for them to let the tories run a minority government. Of course, politicians only really get into politics for the power, so perhaps it's not so surprising Clegg fancied his moment in the sun....

Maybe they were prepared to go to these lengths to get some form of electoral reform.

[Undesired Walrus]

Of course, politicians only really get into politics for the power,

You know that's not true.

[commandlinegamer]

Well that goes without saying, we'll be discussing something important then...

Yeah, now it's all over we can get back to real life.

Now, who the heck is Justin Bieber? What makes her so popular?