Volcanic Ash Causing European Travel Problems

[uk_dave]

Interesting story developing here....

Airline passengers are facing massive disruption across the UK after an ash cloud from a volcanic eruption in Iceland grounded planes.

The Air Traffic Control Service (Nats) said no flights would be allowed in or out of UK airspace from midday to 1800BST amid fears of engine damage.

All flights at Heathrow, Stansted and Gatwick will be suspended from midday and in Scotland all airports are shut.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8621407.stm

Apparantly Danish airspace will close this afternoon too.

[Matthew Best]

This is Iceland's revenge for the banking stuff, isn't it?

Just because we bankrupted their national bank is no reason to send us a volcanic ash cloud of death.

[Darat]

First their banks now this - I think someone doesn't like the Icelandic people!

[Andrew Wiggin]

Glad they're taking precautions. Volcanic ash is pure poison to jet engines, and I can recall some crashes from that. No point in taking chances with the lives of a plane full of tourists.

A

[Rolfe]

Apparently Keflavik is open, because the ash hasn't blown that way, but Scotland and the Scandinavian countries are shut.

It's odd - there's nothing to see in the sky. It's been a little bit overcast this morning anyway, but there have also been sunny spells with blue sky. Noticeable absence of aircraft though!

Rolfe.

[Matthew Best]

Scotland and the Scandinavian countries are shut.


No flights are being allowed in or out of UK airspace.

[learner]

No flights are being allowed in or out of UK airspace.

I was just hearing on radio5 that they have no idea when flights will resume. The Volcaonoe is still erupting.
Hang on.. update.. radio Iceland... Its gone dark . End of world style.

[learner]

Afurther update from radio Iceland (or something) The last time they had a Volcano behave as badly as this was 1821. It lasted two years. It didnt stop flights then but there is concern that holidaying UKers will be speaking all foreign by the time they get home.

[Shrike]

Dutch airspace is closed as well.
This is just what the Illuminati are waiting for !!!one11

[learner]

Dutch airspace is closed as well.
This is just what the Illuminati are waiting for !!!one11

Must get onto my agent. The price of English tulips is about to go sky high!
Update..Oslo airport closed

[Dave Rogers]

Looking out of the window, I see a couple of chemtrails stretching across the sky, so it's good to see that the NWO has found ways to continue its work despite the inconvenience to travellers.

Dave

[Information Analyst]

How soon before the conspiracy theorists call this one? The Illuminati, with their Volcano Eruption Device, in the Drawing Room....

[Mashuna]

I'm off to the HAARP thread to see if the US secret weather control and earthquake system are being blamed yet!

[plumjam]

I can understand them taking precautions,.. but Glasgow?

[Rolfe]

It seems to be spreading - this morning it was just Scotland and Scandinavia that were closed, but now it's the whole of Britain, with France, Germany, Belgium, Spain and the Netherlands experiencing major disruption.

Rolfe.

[Darat]

Shows how utterly vulnerable us modern and sophisticated humans are to acts of nature.

[Fishstick]

Shows how utterly vulnerable us modern and sophisticated airplanes are to acts of nature.

ftfy.

Unless you were planning on travelling by air the only effect here is a redder sunset/sunrise and higher chance of rain this weekend instead of the first +20°c temps this. Goddamnit Iceland, you ruined my weekend.

[Darat]

ftfy.

Unless you were planning on travelling by air the only effect here is a redder sunset/sunrise and higher chance of rain this weekend instead of the first +20°c temps this. Goddamnit Iceland, you ruined my weekend.

Where are you Fishstick? This is effecting millions of people in parts of Europe.

[Rolfe]

Yeah, but it's only affecting the ones who were planning on air travel, isn't it? We're supposed to be in the thick of it here, and I can't see anything unusual.

Rolfe.

[uk_dave]

The UK Health Protection Agency (HPA) has said that the cloud of ash from Iceland's recent volcanic eruption is not a significant public health risk.

The plume of volcanic ash has grounded flights across the UK, but the HPA says that it is "trapped" in the atmosphere at high altitude.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8622362.stm

[Darat]

And all the people that work in the industry, and our airfreighted goods (just in time production/supply relies on this), documents, mail, missed appointments and so on. When you think it through a total shut down of our airspace even for half a day is a serious problem.

[Shrike]

Must get onto my agent. The price of English tulips is about to go sky high!


Oh, it's gonna be like that is it? :D

It didnt stop flights then but there is concern that holidaying UKers will be speaking all foreign by the time they get home.

So it's going to take about a decennium?

[Hreinn]

Its just hot air witch Iceland is spewing, nothing else. but when Katla erupts then we can have bit of a hysteria but in the mean while this is going on in my country im just gonna sit still and watch the fireworks of the news and the weather :p

[learner]

[quote=learner;5829617]Must get onto my agent. The price of English tulips is about to go sky high!
/quote]

Oh, it's gonna be like that is it? :D



So it's going to take about a decennium?

Yep. Either that or two hundred years, wichever is longer I reckon. :)

[uk_dave]

Up to 4,000 flights are being cancelled with airspace closed in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark among others.

The UK's air traffic control service (Nats) said no flights would be allowed in or out of UK airspace until 0600 BST on Friday amid fears of engine damage.

The airspace restriction was the worst in living memory, a spokesman said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8621407.stm

Crikey.

[Matthew Best]

Must get onto my agent. The price of English tulips is about to go sky high!


Really? What could I get for this specimen I found in my back garden?

http://www.matthewbest.plus.com/gardenapril.jpg>

[Darat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8621407.stm

Crikey.

They've now put it to 7am.

[learner]

Thats a fine sample Matthew. (Redus Tulipus I believe)Top price, Picked, packed and delivered cold. About £1 a dozen. £2 for two dozen if you want a bulk price. :)

[Fishstick]

Where are you Fishstick? This is effecting millions of people in parts of Europe.

I'm in Belgium

[Darat]

I'm in Belgium


Have they not closed down Belgium's airspace?

[The Mutha]

I have a work friend in Aberdeen right now on his honeymoon. They are scheduled to fly out on Monday to Amsterdam connecting to Houston. I'm sure they'd not be all that upset if they couldn't get out for a few more days...

[Fishstick]

Have they not closed down Belgium's airspace?

They have. Like I said, unless you're air travelling this week there is no effect on travel. Other than Eurostar being booked full for the first time in years, I guess.

[Darat]

They have. Like I said, unless you're air travelling this week there is no effect on travel. Other than Eurostar being booked full for the first time in years, I guess.


And what about airfreight?

[Rolfe]

I suspect we'll generally manage. I've got a workmate who just told me he's booked to fly out to Majorca on Saturday evening though. I hope he makes it but at the moment it's not at all clear he will.

Rolfe.

[Darat]

I suspect we'll generally manage. I've got a workmate who just told me he's booked to fly out to Majorca on Saturday evening though. I hope he makes it but at the moment it's not at all clear he will.

Rolfe.

I'm sure we will manage but if it goes on for a couple of days we will start to notice the knock-on effect, for example no green beans from Kenya by the weekend (I know not a necessity but it's a good example), these are usually flown in, sent to the distribution centres and sent on to the supermarkets in about 36 hours.

[Francesca R]

Good dress rehearsal for a carbon tax then.

[plumjam]

I'm in Belgium

How can you tell?

[MRC_Hans]

Where are you Fishstick? This is effecting millions of people in parts of Europe.Apart from red sunsets, it will not be noticeable on the ground, and it will not affect any people besides air travellers (and those on the now over-filled trains, of course).

I'm in Hong Kong just now and have a ticket to CPH via Amsterdam Saturday night. Crossing my fingers that we will at least be able to get to some European destination from where surface transport is realistic ....

OR, we could spend the week-end sightseeing in Hong Kong. Mmmm....

Hans

[Darat]

Apart from red sunsets, it will not be noticeable on the ground, and it will not affect any people besides air travellers (and those on the now over-filled trains, of course).

I'm in Hong Kong just now and have a ticket to CPH via Amsterdam Saturday night. Crossing my fingers that we will at least be able to get to some European destination from where surface transport is realistic ....

OR, we could spend the week-end sightseeing in Hong Kong. Mmmm....

Hans

Apart from those in the industry, those whose business relies on air freight, people expecting documents from abroad, people meeting, contracts being signed the list goes on and on. Flight is tightly woven into how the modern world works.

[Francesca R]

Crossing my fingers that we will at least be able to get to some European destination from where surface transport is realisticI think most or all of Germany is open at the moment.

[MRC_Hans]

I'm sure we will manage but if it goes on for a couple of days we will start to notice the knock-on effect, for example no green beans from Kenya by the weekend (I know not a necessity but it's a good example), these are usually flown in, sent to the distribution centres and sent on to the supermarkets in about 36 hours.Sorry, but I can't seem to think of anything essential that we can't do without for a few days, or even weeks. Mainly because those essential things are normally safety stocked, to allow for just such situations (although things like strikes are more likely scenarios, but with similar effects).

Green beans, indeed! :rolleyes:

On the bright side, we will at least defer some massive CO2 emissions ....

Hans

[Darat]

I think most or all of Germany is open at the moment.

Looks like they may be caught tomorrow AM: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8622978.stm

[23_Tauri]

Sorry, but I can't seem to think of anything essential that we can't do without for a few days, or even weeks.
What does the military do in a situation like this? For the sake of national security you can't have a whole nation's air force grounded.

[Darat]

Last I checked we are not fearing an imminent air attack from Germany. :)

[uk_dave]

Last I checked we are not fearing an imminent air attack from Germany. :)

It'll be the french.

[Francesca R]

No-one show the Gerries a light, OK? I'm going down the tube station just to be safe.

[Architect]

Ryanair will be charging extra....."Compulsory Airborne Ash Excess" or somesuch.

[Undesired Walrus]

Feels like the opening chapter to Day of the Triffids.

[Architect]

Aye, we live under one of the high altitude transatlantic flight paths (planes usually mere specks) and have a strangely clear sky. Not complaining, mind.

[BenBurch]

Looks like we may get some real Global Cooling for a few months. Volcanoes are the primary driver of that sort of thing.

[HawaiiBigSis]

The people we're due to meet in Hilo, Hawai'i, on Monday are currently stuck in Prague...

[Architect]

It's a nice place to be stuck.

[HawaiiBigSis]

It's a nice place to be stuck.

True, I suppose, but I want to see them! In Hilo. (Another place with a volcano...)

[catsmate1]

Cork airport was open for most of the day. Though not many flights operated.
My current project has about twenty staff from mainland Europe who'll be spending the weekend here in Dublin. Looks like the distillery tour'll be full on Saturday.....

My old tutor from my undergraduate days, who's a vulcanologist and hence spends little time in college, was annoyed to have missed the eruption.

[HawaiiBigSis]

Apparently, one of the biggest problems is that particulates in the ash is solidifying into glass when it gets high enough (and cold enough), and glass and airplane engines don't mix. How odd though, because I would imagine those little bits of glass will eventually fall to earth. I wonder if that's a factor in the "pretty sunset" phenomenon.

[23_Tauri]

My old tutor from my undergraduate days, who's a vulcanologist .
Is that something to do with Dr Spock?

[Rolfe]

I was out delivering election leaflets until 8 o'clock, and the sky was perfectly clear. I didn't see any red in the sunset at all.

Wow. They don't call that housing estate "midge valley" for no reason....

Rolfe.

[catsmate1]

It might have been red here but it was difficult to see through the cloud.

[Giz]

I have a work friend in Aberdeen right now on his honeymoon. They are scheduled to fly out on Monday to Amsterdam connecting to Houston. I'm sure they'd not be all that upset if they couldn't get out for a few more days...

If they're honeymooning in Aberdeen then they surely have bigger problems than mere volcanic eruptions!

[Architect]

If they're honeymooning in Aberdeen then they surely have bigger problems than mere volcanic eruptions!

You know, that sounds like a really dodgy single entendre!

[Safe-Keeper]

Could definitely smell something burning in Bergen today. My father was supposed to be home by today, but can't make it due to the ash.

[Toke]

Denmark is closed, not good for my aunts vacation in Firence Saturday.

I wonder if this will last months or years, airports depending on ash forecasts, and a lot of industries having to adapt to less speedy/reliable delivery.


At least it might mean a upturn in shipping employment. :D

[PogoPedant]

Sorry, but I can't seem to think of anything essential that we can't do without for a few days, or even weeks. Mainly because those essential things are normally safety stocked, to allow for just such situations (although things like strikes are more likely scenarios, but with similar effects).

Green beans, indeed! :rolleyes:

On the bright side, we will at least defer some massive CO2 emissions ....

Hans

In large parts of Norway, emergency services are by air only. I have family living roughly 2.5 hours away from the nearest hospital. They depend on air-travel for ambulance services.

Anyways, somebody on bad astronomy shared this: http://www.radar-virtuel.com/ , an overview over planes in the air.

[Complexity]

This could go on for years.

That would be interesting.

[PogoPedant]

... for Chinese values of 'interesting', I take it?

[Soapy Sam]

Like I said elsewhere- google "Lakigigar" . 8 months of eruptions, sulphide and fluorine poisoning, temperature drop and lousy weather, crop failures, livestock death and human starvation, all good stuff. 1783-4 I think. The craters are still rather impressive.

Rolfe- if you can see it in the air you would have a potentially serious lung hazard.
Watch the paintwork on that shiny new car of yours. Rinse BEFORE you polish.
The problem is not so much the size of the ash cloud as the fact the weather's not dispersing it. I think the flight bans are needlessly extensive for that reason. This could have been flown around, at least yesterday.

I'm interested that while I see much about ash I'm not seeing much about chemistry.
There are reports of "Rotten egg" smell from Shetland and Norway- possibly H2S, even very low concentrations of which are not remotely funny.
Main danger from subglacial eruptions is to the neighbours. Jokullhaup-Glacier burst- the water & ice overlying the volcano forms a pressure cap until it melts, then starts to boil- water either runs away, melting more ice, or flashes to steam. Hydrostatic head falls and the trapped gas expands upwards, accelerating the loss of overlying pressure. You now have a supergeyser of sulphuric acid. Not good.

[Flo]

Apart from red sunsets, it will not be noticeable on the ground, and it will not affect any people besides air travellers .....

Apart from those in the industry, those whose business relies on air freight, people expecting documents from abroad, people meeting, contracts being signed the list goes on and on ...


like people whose mother-in-law is stuck at their home for they don't know how long ...

[Darat]

In large parts of Norway, emergency services are by air only. I have family living roughly 2.5 hours away from the nearest hospital. They depend on air-travel for ambulance services.

Anyways, somebody on bad astronomy shared this: http://www.radar-virtuel.com/ , an overview over planes in the air.

It's apparently the high level flying that is really at risk - so I assume the likes of low flying aircraft and helicopters will still be able to fly if neccessary.

[Soapy Sam]

Or they'll ban double decker buses...

[Foolmewunz]

It's a nice place to be stuck.

Yeah, but so would be Hilo!

[learner]

Just heard on uk news. Airspace may be closed until 1am tomorow.
Heard on news last night-Man at Glasgow airport: "I don't know why the planes can't take off? It's not like the ash is at ground level is it?" he was very annoyed..doh!

[Foolmewunz]

Sorry, but I can't seem to think of anything essential that we can't do without for a few days, or even weeks. Mainly because those essential things are normally safety stocked, to allow for just such situations (although things like strikes are more likely scenarios, but with similar effects).

Green beans, indeed! :rolleyes:

On the bright side, we will at least defer some massive CO2 emissions ....

Hans

A whole lot of airfreight is articles that some manager THOUGHT were safety stocked and could wait for the next container load... yet mysteriously disappeared (as in "used up but someone forgot to adjust the inventory"). I know of production lines that will shut down if they don't get their airfreight within about a two day window. Some industries, notoriously the hitech and automotive and pharma sectors, actually deal in daily production line deliveries on a JIT basis, and that's quite often airfreight, also.

[Foolmewunz]

Afurther update from radio Iceland (or something) The last time they had a Volcano behave as badly as this was 1821. It lasted two years. It didnt stop flights then but there is concern that holidaying UKers will be speaking all foreign by the time they get home.

Well, obviously us modern types could learn a thing or two from history if we'd have paid attention. What did they do back in 1821 to assure that the air transportation wasn't disrupted? We just have to duplicate that effort and all will be fine. Duuuh! Do I have to do all the thinking around here? :rolleyes:

[learner]

Well, obviously us modern types could learn a thing or two from history if we'd have paid attention. What did they do back in 1821 to assure that the air transportation wasn't disrupted? We just have to duplicate that effort and all will be fine. Duuuh! Do I have to do all the thinking around here? :rolleyes:

I believe it was a no flight policy that was followed world wide. For both years concerned.

[uk_dave]

"It is likely that the production of ash will continue at a comparable level for some days or weeks. But where it disrupts travel, that depends on the weather," Einar Kjartansson, a geophysicist at the Icelandic Meteorological Office, told the Associated Press.

"It depends how the wind carries the ash."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8623534.stm

[Foolmewunz]

I believe it was a no flight policy that was followed world wide. For both years concerned.

See? That'd do it. Would you like to be the EU's new Minister of Transportation? I like the way you think.

[learner]

See? That'd do it. Would you like to be the EU's new Minister of Transportation? I like the way you think.

I'd love to but I doubt I would be up to the challenge. I just cut my Nose with a knife as I was trying to kill a fly in mid-flight. It would make George Bush look like an inspired appointment. :o

[Rolfe]

Like I said elsewhere- google "Lakigigar" . 8 months of eruptions, sulphide and fluorine poisoning, temperature drop and lousy weather, crop failures, livestock death and human starvation, all good stuff. 1783-4 I think. The craters are still rather impressive.


That's interesting. I was looking at 1816. They were saying on the radio that this wasn't going to cause another "year without a summer", but I see the parallels with 1787 are closer.

Rolfe- if you can see it in the air you would have a potentially serious lung hazard.
Watch the paintwork on that shiny new car of yours. Rinse BEFORE you polish.
The problem is not so much the size of the ash cloud as the fact the weather's not dispersing it. I think the flight bans are needlessly extensive for that reason. This could have been flown around, at least yesterday.


Still can't see anything. Wall-to-wall sunshine here this morning.

The guys on the GTi forum are running around clearing their garages to get their cars in, but you can't do anything about daytime parking at work, at least I can't. And my garage tap is still hors de combat with a leak, following the big freeze-up at Christmas.

They got a flight off to Toronto this morning, and they're talking about running local flights within Scotland at low altitudes. I suspect they'll figure out that low-level air ambulance flights will have to happen, although I gather they weren't flying yesterday.

I'm interested that while I see much about ash I'm not seeing much about chemistry.
There are reports of "Rotten egg" smell from Shetland and Norway- possibly H2S, even very low concentrations of which are not remotely funny.
Main danger from subglacial eruptions is to the neighbours. Jokullhaup-Glacier burst- the water & ice overlying the volcano forms a pressure cap until it melts, then starts to boil- water either runs away, melting more ice, or flashes to steam. Hydrostatic head falls and the trapped gas expands upwards, accelerating the loss of overlying pressure. You now have a supergeyser of sulphuric acid. Not good.


Not good at all. As if Iceland didn't have its troubles already. And while I'm sure we can all cope with a couple of days no-fly, some things are certainly going to get awkward if it turns into weeks.

Rolfe.

[mummymonkey]

I have a work friend in Aberdeen right now on his honeymoon.

Hawaii fully booked?

[mummymonkey]

I hate Iceland! :D

34mHZgP9vkc

[Soapy Sam]

They got a flight off to Toronto this morning, and they're talking about running local flights within Scotland at low altitudes. I suspect they'll figure out that low-level air ambulance flights will have to happen, although I gather they weren't flying yesterday.
I doubt Glasgow- Edinburgh flights get above 6000 feet at any time.
The turboprops from the regional airports & islands go between hills, not over them. And the RAF never seem to get above about sixt feet. They pick trainees who are scared of heights.
I think there's rather a lot of overreaction going on.

The burd was off to Florence tomorrow, with a pal. I'll get the blame. "You and your blooming volcanoes!"

[Rolfe]

Well, I've already booked to go on holiday the Germany in August on the Rosyth ferry. Though come to think of it, if this is still going on in August, we'll all have more to worry about than how we're getting to Bayreuth.

And who flies Glasgow-Edinburgh? It's 40 miles, dammit. I could drive it while you're queueing at security.

Rolfe.

[Foolmewunz]

Well, I've already booked to go on holiday the Germany in August on the Rosyth ferry. Though come to think of it, if this is still going on in August, we'll all have more to worry about than how we're getting to Bayreuth.

And who flies Glasgow-Edinburgh? It's 40 miles, dammit. I could drive it while you're queueing at security.

Rolfe.


Waaah! Rolfe's going to the Bayreuth Festival! No fair.


Pouting, Foolmewunz shuts down his office computer for the night.

[KarlG]

Is that something to do with Dr Spock?

The child-care guy?? Why would he be interested?? :p

[Rolfe]

Waaah! Rolfe's going to the Bayreuth Festival! No fair.

Pouting, Foolmewunz shuts down his office computer for the night.


Parsifal and Meistersinger. I got 2 tickets for each, but since events have transpired that I'll be going alone, I hope to trade the spare tickets for other performances.

Rolfe.

[Foolmewunz]

Parsifal and Meistersinger. I got 2 tickets for each, but since events have transpired that I'll be going alone, I hope to trade the spare tickets for other performances.

Rolfe.

Those pics on the 2010 site are dated July 09. Do you know if they're doing the same staging? It looks awesome!


Die Meistersinger...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_110854bc8546101f3d.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=19745)

[Rolfe]

Almost certainly. So far as I know, they don't retire a production one year and mount a new one of the same opera the following year. Looks quite unusual!

Rolfe.

[Beerina]

Glad they're taking precautions. Volcanic ash is pure poison to jet engines, and I can recall some crashes from that. No point in taking chances with the lives of a plane full of tourists.

A

Exactly, they learned not to fly through ash clouds AKA clouds of microscopic jagged rock pieces the hard way. It grinds the engine down to useless as you are still flying.

[Rolfe]

The media coverage has been saying that while the ash chokes the engines and makes them cut out, they will re-start once the plane has flown out of the cloud. They said this phenomenom hadn't yet killed anyone.

Rolfe.

[chillzero]

Do you want to be on the flight that puts that to the test?

ETA:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8624464.stm


1344 Paul Taylor, in Hersham, Surrey says:
In 1989 we were flying on a brand new KLM 747 to Tokyo via Alaska when we flew into a volcanic cloud over Anchorage. All four engines stopped and we fell around 10,000 feet before the pilot got one engine working and another just before an emergency landing. Having been through that, I can see why Nats are not taking any chances.

[Complexity]

... for Chinese values of 'interesting', I take it?


It is a very useful word.

[Complexity]

Reuters is reporting that it could last six months.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE63F02E20100416

[Rolfe]

Do you want to be on the flight that puts that to the test?

ETA:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8624464.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8624464.stm)


No, I totally don't. I heard the pilot's account of what happened, they were obviously bloody lucky. It's well understood the grounding is in order to avoid there being a first time.

I was merely querying Beerina's assertion that the engines would be completely destroyed, and Andrew Wiggin's that there had already been some crashes.

Rolfe.

[nathan]

Roll up! Roll up! Place your bets on whether tomorrow evening's flight from Denver will happen.

As we're not on the run from the mob, that movie's no help either.

[23_Tauri]

On the bright side, we will at least defer some massive CO2 emissions ....

Hans
But Hans, what our airplanes emit is peanuts compared to the greenhouse gases spewing out of that volcano. Doesn't this demonstrate the relative significance of natural events on climate compared with our activities?

(Footnote: I appreciate this is a whole other topic, but the point about plane emissions vs a great big volcano couldn't escape my notice)

[Retrograde]

What did they do back in 1821 to assure that the air transportation wasn't disrupted?

Made sure the hot air balloons didn't get too high, and invented trains just to be on the safe side?

[chillzero]

A previous eruption in 1784 caused a poisonous fog over Britain that killed 20,000 people who breathed it in. It caused the deaths of a third of the Icelandic population from starvation as the crops failed then the animals starved.

There are fears that this activity may set off activity in another nearby volcano as well, and currently Iceland is flooding as the glaciers melt around the volcano. 1500 islanders have been evacuated.

The cloud that stopped air travel is still being fed, in pulses, so this situation is likely to continue a bit longer - dependant on prevailing winds - but we should maybe count ourselves very lucky if this is the worst we see in the coming months.

[commandlinegamer]

Yet another reason to bring back airships.

[HawaiiBigSis]

Couldn't some sufficiently large fans be strategically set up so as to disperse the clouds faster? Or a tarp over the volcano to keep the ash contained? I can think of several fairly low-tech solutions to the problem.

(My friends have rebooked their flight out of Prague for Sunday, so they're optimistic. Only time will tell.)

And Foolmewunz, have you ever actually been in Hilo? Ironically, the active volcano there has been affecting our breathing for the past couple of years, although not airflights, so far as I know.

[Rolfe]

Couldn't some sufficiently large fans be strategically set up so as to disperse the clouds faster? Or a tarp over the volcano to keep the ash contained?.


You're kidding, right...?

Rolfe.

[learner]

Easyjet have grounded most of their flights until midday monday now.

[MRC_Hans]

Ahh, well. We are now scheduled to leave Hong Kong on Tuesday, just after midnight. Hopefully things are moving back to normal by then. I'd rather be home, but a week-end in HK is not the worst there is.

Even though that volcano may be erupting for quite some time, it takes more than that, since Icelandic volcanoes are erupting practically all the time. There also has to be the right conditions for the ashes to rise high enough into the atmosphere, AND the right kinds of winds to carry it to Europe.

Apparently a rather rare situation.

Hans

[ddt]

Sorry, but I can't seem to think of anything essential that we can't do without for a few days, or even weeks.
What do you mean? It is disrupting the 70th birthday party of your Queen! :) Our Queen and Crown Prince wanted to fly to Copenhagen, now they have to come by train. I think I heard they had to pull the royal wagons out of an exhibition.

And then our PM can't attend Kaczynski's funeral, which is scheduled for Sunday. Apparently, he hasn't heard of this new invention called "train". :boggled:

[23_Tauri]

The child-care guy?? Why would he be interested?? :p
I was thinking more of our new Vulcan over-lords, coming to us Earthlings in our hour of need with their highly-developed vulcanologist* skills.

Footnote: I have been informed since my earlier post that it is a correct alternative spelling to spell volcanologist with a 'u', however I'm not going to let a small idiosyncrasy of the English language stand in the way of a joke (especially when it's Star Trek related :p)

[sinnikal]

If you want to find out the 'truth' about what's going on with the eruption, there's no finer place than the David Icke forum.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112355

these disasters do seem to be picking up p[ace
that is the conspiracy
what are they not telling us for the reason for this?
were the mayans right?
Is Niburu heading our way or is this the start of events before the poles switch and we head into the heart of the milky way?
------------------------

I think you're correct in that we are not being told the true reasons for these natural events and also the increasing frequency of them.

I believe that if we look at CYMATICS we will find our answers.
Our earths frequency is changing and becoming higher.
In cymatics when the frequency is turned up the geometric form will remain the same untill hits a certain pitch. At that point the geometric form will suddenly change to a more complex form. In between these two forms there will be chaos and destruction. This I believe is what we are going through now.

And my advise is to put your energy into grounding yourselves to resonate with the earth's new higher frequency's. If you do this you will have smooth and joyful transition.

On the other hand you could try holding a lower vibration by living in fear and you transition will be painful.

It's a choice right now between fear and love.
My intuitive feeling about the volcano eruption is that the lands receiving the ash have telepathically asked Iceland for the ash, because they need the energy that the ash can give. I believe that the ash carry an energy that is positive and healing to the nature and land of the countries receiving it, and that nature in these areas has telepathically asked for it. Remember: all of nature is one.

Then of course Illuminati makes the best of the situation, and takes the opportunity to test their powers, cancel flights, perhaps a little more than what would in reality be needed, and to study the reaction.

Also, the consequential flooding in Iceland can be seen as positive, as it may naturalize the landscape, remove human structures and make the landscape more beautiful, which may make people appreciate nature more.

Also, all those people who have to wait for their flight will get an opportunity to meditate in the chaos and connect to their inner self, which is positive.

Then the ash will also make the sunset more beautiful. So I can only see positive effects. Perhaps people will sit in the sunset meditating!
:eye-poppi

[commandlinegamer]

I think the Icke poster is perhaps confused and is channeling the Twitter storm from yesterday, viz.:

Dear Iceland: we asked for cash not ash.

[Toke]

Hans,
you could could try get on a Maersk container ship and be set off in Bremerhaven in App. 3 weeks, or take the train from Beijing over Moscow to Berlin and then Copenhagen.
Either way it is a long trip.

[HawaiiBigSis]

You're kidding, right...?

Rolfe.
Wasn't it in Iceland they set up concrete barriers to channel the lava from the eruption some years back? And sprayed cold water on the lava to cool it and keep it more contained?

My boss told me I put too much faith in science.

(But yes, I'm kidding. Mostly.)

[akama1]

Do you want to be on the flight that puts that to the test?

ETA:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8624464.stm

For those interested, Aircrash Investigations did an episode on this flight. The footage of what the 747 looked like after flying through the volcanic ash is mind blowing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxhiJnhI-p4

[rjh01]

Here is another view on flying though volcanic ash. It sums up the above video (which is a three parter and contains more action than most action movies) beautifully.

GX8NMY7Qtxk

[MRC_Hans]

Hans,
you could could try get on a Maersk container ship and be set off in Bremerhaven in App. 3 weeks, or take the train from Beijing over Moscow to Berlin and then Copenhagen.
Either way it is a long trip.I actually think the train would be an interesting trip, but the time taken is a bit long.

I'm seated on a plane out of HK on 20/4, just after midnight, so unless the closure continues till that, I think I'll prefer that.

Hans.

[MRC_Hans]

What do you mean? It is disrupting the 70th birthday party of your Queen! :) Our Queen and Crown Prince wanted to fly to Copenhagen, now they have to come by train. I think I heard they had to pull the royal wagons out of an exhibition.

And then our PM can't attend Kaczynski's funeral, which is scheduled for Sunday. Apparently, he hasn't heard of this new invention called "train". :boggled:I hear the queen's birthday went quite well.

Trains... A coworker from one of our associates was stuck in Switzerland, and proceeded to go home by train. In Hamburg, he had to flee from the train station due to riot-like situations; people were literally fighting to get on trains.

He was able to rent a car and drive the rest of the way home.

Hans

[23_Tauri]

If you want to find out the 'truth' about what's going on with the eruption, there's no finer place than the David Icke forum.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112355

:eye-poppi
Sinnikal, thanks for the transmission from Central Woo-ville. :eye-poppi indeed! I don't think I'll be joining the Ickistas for a meditation under a red sunset somehow.

[funk de fino]

This drags on I could be stuck in Mexico. Might be as well jmping on a cruise liner now!!

[Agatha]

British eccentricity and inventiveness: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8627026.stm

[ZeeGerman]

Just found out that I'm not traveling to Frankfurt tonight (from Detroit).
Now I can enjoy a majorly relaxed weekend and use the days next week to work through the pile of stuff on my desk instead of sitting through a sales meeting.

This is not too bad after all :)

Zee

[Cactus Wren]

According to MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36611426/ns/travel/) this eruption has disrupted travel as far as Singapore, China, and North America:

Disruption spread to Asia, where dozens of Europe-bound flights were canceled and hotels from Beijing to Singapore strained to accommodate thousands of stranded passengers.

In Singapore, a major transit point for Europe-bound air traffic, 22 flights were canceled early on Saturday, Changi Airport spokesman Ivan Tan told Reuters.

"We don't know where to stay," said German citizen Dirk Kronewald. "Singapore hotels are full."

American Airlines, a unit of AMR Corp, said it was able to operate flights to and from Spain and Italy but had canceled 56 others to and from Europe, the same number as on Friday.

The Air Transport Association of America said more than 80 percent of the usual 337 passenger and cargo flights between the United States and Europe were canceled on Friday.

The U.S. military had to re-route many flights, including those evacuating the wounded from Afghanistan and Iraq, a Pentagon spokesman said.

[zooterkin]

I was thinking more of our new Vulcan over-lords, coming to us Earthlings in our hour of need with their highly-developed vulcanologist* skills.

Footnote: I have been informed since my earlier post that it is a correct alternative spelling to spell volcanologist with a 'u', however I'm not going to let a small idiosyncrasy of the English language stand in the way of a joke (especially when it's Star Trek related :p)

I think most people knew what you were getting at, but the 'idiosyncracy' you missed is that the Star Trek character is Mr Spock. If you make references to things beloved by geeks, don't be surprised if we react geekishly. :)

ETA: ObTopic. My manager was due to fly back from Amsterdam on Thursday, and had to get the Eurostar from Brussels yesterday instead.

It seems as though airlines could be liable for hotel costs while people are stranded, though that seems a bit unfair (and some, like Ryanair, will fight it all the way).

[I Ratant]

Hans,
you could could try get on a Maersk container ship and be set off in Bremerhaven in App. 3 weeks, or take the train from Beijing over Moscow to Berlin and then Copenhagen.
Either way it is a long trip.
.
Container ship...
Adopting the old British Airways logo of...."Getting there at all, is half the fun."

[nathan]

So, I'm going to be in Denver until next Friday. At least some uncertainty has disappeared. I guess that's a good thing.

[BenBurch]

Live webcam; http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/

[23_Tauri]

I think most people knew what you were getting at, but the 'idiosyncracy' you missed is that the Star Trek character is Mr Spock. If you make references to things beloved by geeks, don't be surprised if we react geekishly. :)
Doh! :blush:
Which actually makes the whole conversation that bit funnier, really. :)

[BenBurch]

Only Spain fully open right now; http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/04/15/world/europe/airport-closings-graphic.html

[andyandy]

Only Spain fully open right now; http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/04/15/world/europe/airport-closings-graphic.html

We're running low of asparagus, Kenyan roses and Thai baby sweetcorn (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/16/flight-ban-shortages-uk-supermarkets). Oh the humanity! :D

[quixotecoyote]

Live webcam; http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/


Links must be broken, it's just a black screen with white dots.





:boxedin:

[rjh01]

Look like 2010 in Europe will be the year without a summer. That is if the volcano does not stop.

[BenBurch]

Links must be broken, it's just a black screen with white dots.





:boxedin:

I know you know that, but its night there... Those are the houses you can see when its daylight there. Sunrise there is in a bit over six hours.

[Travis]

More goodness from Icke.com

Sounds like an overreaction to cause more travel chaos, towards the end of the Easter Holidays. At least there should be no chemtrails today, with no air traffic.
Are they covering something up that's alot more serious i wonder?
I wonder what would happen if someone tried to fly in....would the met claim they were a bomber and have the shot down
Two things...

A well orchestrated plot to shut down UK air space as the MAN prepares the final solution for ethnic minorities. closing you in as the vermin kick down your door, getting rid of concious writers in the process, people they most fear. The last time UK air space came under lock-down was back in 2001. And Believe me the MAN wanted to go all the way, full blown war with the third world. But instead had to settle for Iraq.

A plan to lure Russia in attacking the UK, Russia sees that the UK air defence grid is shut down so can easily attack UK with little resistance. If this happens the MAN will blame ethnic minorities, thus fulfilling his dream of a race war and a war with the bear. Check as Russia killed off a pro American president in Poland last week. There are a lot of intelligent black people under attack kept form achieving their aspirations locked out of the economy forced to beg and stuck in one place.
It's unsettling that:

1. Obama has been giving conditioning statements all week about nuclear terrorism in the US.
False Flag Alert?

Volcanic Ash is supposedly to blame for grounding a significant portion of Air Travel throughout Europe.

A large fleet of warships, submarines, frigates and aircraft from 10 NATO countries and one non-NATO member has congregated here to take part in the ‘Brilliant Mariner’ maritime exercise in the Baltic Sea.

The 10-day long multi-nation naval drill began here on April 12, 2010. It will engage the NATO forces to respond to a number of challenges, including asymmetric or terrorist threats, maritime security operations and embargo operations “in a realistic scenario,” a NATO statement said.
What immediately sprang to my mind was the clip in the film " encounters of the third kind" When they cleared a whole swathe of countryside because of "poisonous gas" . I wonder what we are not supposed to be seeing??
Some plan to mass poison people with the fluoride?
I think this might have the potential ingredients to be the beginnings of a false flag operation? There seem to be quite a few inconsistencies emerging and there is also several interesting bits and pieces that could be linked to it and the timing:

None of the media seems to be actively questioning what is happening.

There are zero satellite pictures of the cloud being anywhere near the UK or the flight paths. Yet the footage we see of it from media plane cockpits show that they all fly right by it to get a good shot.

Planes can fly around things.

It is frankly rather odd - there have been hundreds of volcanic eruptions since aviation history began and they have never shut airports like this.

[kittynh]

http://skepchick.org/blog/2010/04/fire-and-ice-and-airplanes/

[NewtonTrino]

So I just found out that my sister is stuck in the Canary Islands! She lives in London and had headed down there for a week. I thought it was around this time so I shot her an email which she finally just responded to. She's not happy about the situation...that's for sure.

[quixotecoyote]

Webcam's working again. :)

[Agatha]

The Dunkirk spirit: http://twitter.com/calaisrescue

[Duffy Moon]

On the plus side, I did hear a volcano/Cheryl Cole joke.

Good taste prevents me from repeating it here though.

[Soapy Sam]

A previous eruption in 1784 caused a poisonous fog over Britain that killed 20,000 people who breathed it in. It caused the deaths of a third of the Icelandic population from starvation as the crops failed then the animals starved.
That's the Lakigigar eruption I mentioned earlier. High Fluorine content among other nasties. The Laki and Eldgja fissure system is linked to...

There are fears that this activity may set off activity in another nearby volcano as well, and currently Iceland is flooding as the glaciers melt around the volcano. 1500 islanders have been evacuated.
...Katla...

The cloud that stopped air travel is still being fed, in pulses, so this situation is likely to continue a bit longer - dependant on prevailing winds - but we should maybe count ourselves very lucky if this is the worst we see in the coming months.[/quote] Oh aye. If it's not over in a week it could be months.

[Soapy Sam]

Wasn't it in Iceland they set up concrete barriers to channel the lava from the eruption some years back? And sprayed cold water on the lava to cool it and keep it more contained?

My boss told me I put too much faith in science.

(But yes, I'm kidding. Mostly.)
You're right though. Heimaey, Westmanneyar. 1967. They pumped seawater to cool the lava and save the harbour.

[Skwinty]

You're right though. Heimaey, Westmanneyar. 1967. They pumped seawater to cool the lava and save the harbour.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/heimaey/heimaey.pdf

Here is a link to the story.

ETA lots of b/w pictures.

[Childlike Empress]

German airlines are loudly demanding (http://www.spiegel.de/reise/deutschland/0,1518,689663,00.html) evidence from the government and complain that absolutely no tests were done and the whole "danger" is based on a computer simulation by the Vulcanic Ash Advisory Centre in London, while their own test flights show nothing unusual. Government says decisions are made in Brussels.

[DC]

Government says decisions are made in Brussels.

hehe welcome to the EU.

[Childlike Empress]

Sux.

[DC]

on the other hand its the best we have done sofar to reduce CO2 emissions :D

[catsmate1]

I was thinking more of our new Vulcan over-lords, coming to us Earthlings in our hour of need with their highly-developed vulcanologist* skills.

Footnote: I have been informed since my earlier post that it is a correct alternative spelling to spell volcanologist with a 'u', however I'm not going to let a small idiosyncrasy of the English language stand in the way of a joke (especially when it's Star Trek related :p)

It is. Coming from the Roman god Vulcan/Vulcanus. Indeed I would go so far as to say it's the correct way to describe a student of, or expert with, volcanoes; with volcanologist as a modern corruption. Certainly when I was at college the term volcanologist was never used.
Interestingly neither Firefox's spellchecker no Words recognises "volcanologist". But then they're not happy about "recognises" either.....

[SnidelyW]

OKAY- so MY question, sitting in North America, for the Europeans, is would YOU take a flight through the volcanic ash cloud?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_iceland_volcano

It seems KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, and Austrian Airlines sent up test flights at varying altitudes, and reported no anomalies, and no damage to their aircraft.

In 1989, a KLM Boeing 747 that flew through a volcanic ash cloud above Alaska temporarily lost all four motors. The motors restarted at a lower altitude and the plane eventually landed safely.1

I'm wondering how many people would be eager to get on board a flight through the ash cloud, and risk it. Also, what do you think is the driving force behind this- passenger safety or getting the income stream back online as quickly as possible?

1. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_iceland_volcano

[Childlike Empress]

Medwedew doesn't mind - he flew from Moscow to Krakow this morning to attend Kacyinski's funeral and may just have returned. No restrictions in russian airspace including Kaliningrad.

[SnidelyW]

I'm also wondering if the airlines would ask passengers to sign a 'volcanic ash crash waiver' that would absolve them from any risk if the plane did, indeed, drop out of the sky.

I'm only half kidding, actually.

[Toke]

I wonder when planes will start flying at lower ash free altitudes?
It will cost a fortune in fuel and limit range/cargo capacity, but will be worth it for some applications.
Are the small piston engine crafts having brisk business as taxi planes?

[Chaos]

I wonder when planes will start flying at lower ash free altitudes?
It will cost a fortune in fuel and limit range/cargo capacity, but will be worth it for some applications.
Are the small piston engine crafts having brisk business as taxi planes?

Apparently. There is a small airport in Egelsbach, near where I live, which reportedly is doing lively business, and showing the appropriate degree of schadenfreude towards their big and largely closed-down competition in Frankfurt.

[Toke]

Apparently. There is a small airport in Egelsbach, near where I live, which reportedly is doing lively business, and showing the appropriate degree of schadenfreude towards their big and largely closed-down competition in Frankfurt.

No major surprise. :D

Do they have a big sign up.
"We are still flying" or such:)

[commandlinegamer]

If this lasts for several weeks, or even months, how likely is it that airlines will go bankrupt? Might they be (part) nationalised to prevent them failing, in a similar manner to the banks?

[mummymonkey]

Strikes me there is a big difference between the incidents that happened previously and now. The current "cloud" is nothing of the sort. It's more a barely discernable haze. Massive over-reaction in my view.

I wondered how long it would be before the airlines started squeeling.

[shandyjan]

Here is another view on flying though volcanic ash. It sums up the above video (which is a three parter and contains more action than most action movies) beautifully.

GX8NMY7Qtxk

Thanks for the link, and the last part of it would be enough for me. I'd rather have overreaction than the opposite any day!
And in this episode that Akimar1 linked to..that was just a thin layer of cloud!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxhiJnhI-p4

[Travis]

Strikes me there is a big difference between the incidents that happened previously and now. The current "cloud" is nothing of the sort. It's more a barely discernable haze. Massive over-reaction in my view.

I wondered how long it would be before the airlines started squeeling.

The 747 that lost all its engines didn't see anything either.

[SnidelyW]

Just in case anyone out there thinks there has only been ONE aircraft affected by an ash cloud, I quote from a USGS (United States Geological Survey) document;

Along North Pacific air routes, some of the busiest in the world, at least 15 aircraft (including KLM Flight 867) have been damaged since 1980 by flying through volcanic ash clouds. In the same period, there have been 80 such encounters worldwide, causing hundreds of millions of dollars in damage and lost revenue.1

So, one would could assume the airlines have measurement data from those incidents to offer some sort of guideline on the accepable amount of volcanic ash they can safely fly through- or- is the safe amount zero?

1.http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs030-97/

[SnidelyW]

The 747 that lost all its engines didn't see anything either.

Actually, Travis, the transcript of the cockpit communication of KLM 867 says differently.

Here is the transcript of the pertinent conversation between the KLM pilot and Anchorage Center;

"PILOT KLM B-747 – “KLM 867 HEAVY IS REACHING {FLIGHT} LEVEL 250 HEADING 140”

ANCHORAGE CENTER - “OKAY, DO YOU HAVE GOOD SIGHT ON THE ASH PLUME AT THIS TIME?”

PILOT KLM B-747 – “YEA, IT’S JUST CLOUDY IT COULD BE ASHES. IT’S JUST A LITTLE BROWNER THAN THE NORMAL CLOUD.”

PILOT KLM B-747 – “WE HAVE TO GO LEFT NOW… IT’S SMOKY IN THE COCKPIT AT THE MOMENT SIR.”

ANCHORAGE CENTER – “KLM 867 HEAVY, ROGER, LEFT AT YOUR DISCRETION.”

PILOT KLM B-747 – “CLIMBING TO {FLIGHT} LEVEL 390, WE’RE IN A BLACK CLOUD, HEADING 130.”

PILOT KLM B-747 – “KLM 867 WE HAVE FLAME OUT ALL ENGINES AND WE ARE DESCENDING NOW!”

ANCHORAGE CENTER – “KLM 867 HEAVY ANCHORAGE?”

PILOT KLM B747 – “KLM 867 HEAVY WE ARE DESCENDING NOW … WE ARE IN A FALL!”

PILOT KLM B-747 – “KLM 867 WE NEED ALL THE ASSISTANCE YOU HAVE SIR. GIVE US RADAR VECTORS PLEASE!” 1

So, it seems KLM 867 had severe volcanic ash cloud issues after all.

This is a quote from CAPTAIN TERRY MCVENES, EXECUTIVE AIR SAFETY CHAIRMAN, AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL, before the
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION SUBCOMMITTEE ON DISASTER PREVENTION AND PREDICTION,
U.S. SENATE, MARCH 16, 2006;

"Commercial turbojet aircraft are certified with multiple redundant systems to prevent total system failures. Yet even they can be rendered helpless by volcanic ash. Therefore, detection, prediction and dissemination strategies are essential to avoid the hazard. Either we will identify a turning point in our understanding of the volcanic hazards and the impacts on aviation, or we will continue on our present course and accept the hazards of the encounters that we have reviewed. Continuing on our present course may produce fatal results."2

1.http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/pressroom/testimony/2006/TM_3-16-06.htm
2. ibid

[funk de fino]

Medwedew doesn't mind - he flew from Moscow to Krakow this morning to attend Kacyinski's funeral and may just have returned. No restrictions in russian airspace including Kaliningrad.

Remind me why he had to fly to that funeral?

[ThatSoundAgain]

If this lasts for several weeks, or even months, how likely is it that airlines will go bankrupt? Might they be (part) nationalised to prevent them failing, in a similar manner to the banks?

Talks are in the making in Scandinavia regarding just that. An estimate earlier put the losses past $130 million in Denmark alone. That's from four days of this situation.

Sweden and Norway have let up their grounding of planes, the Danish one still stands until further notice.

[BenBurch]

I think that planes will resume operations and fly until there is an incident.

[BenBurch]

By pre-dawn light, the volcano seems to have quieted down significantly;

http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/

[BenBurch]

Iceland met office says;


IMO's radar near Keflavik has not detected the plume from Eyjafjallajökull since 08 o'clock this morning, which implies that it is below 10,000 feet (3 km).

There are no reports on ash this morning. Seismic tremor has been ongoing and is at a strong level this morning.

No flood has been reported. A gauging station near the Markarfljót bridge is being improved and a team from IMO is investigating floodmarks and flood elevation to measure the spread of the flood from Gígjökull on the first day of the eruption, 21 April.

[Skwinty]

Ash Connection Probed In U.K. Crash

http://www.avweb.com/newspics/icevolcano.jpg

Authorities in England are investigating whether volcanic ash had anything to do with the crash of a light plane in Hampshire. Two people died when the aircraft crashed and burned in a field, well away from buildings or other people. Although thousands of airline flights have been cancelled by the ash cloud from a volcano in Iceland, stranding millions of passengers, there are apparently no restrictions on uncontrolled airspace, although the Civil Aviation Authority has warned pilots and owners of light aircraft not to fly. A Hampshire police spokesman said ash will be considered as a possible cause. "It is too early to say whether ash was a factor but it will form part of the investigation," the unnamed spokesman told news services in the U.K.

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1611-full.html

[Skwinty]

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1004/icevolcano_fulle_big.jpg

Amazing picture!!

[portlandatheist]

It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than being in the air wishing you were on the ground

[Soapy Sam]

It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than being in the air wishing you were on the ground

Well, not always.
If you're on the ground you may be wishing all your life.
If you're in the air, you'll soon be on the ground. One way or another.

[Darat]

Given the chaos this is causing I feel slightly guilty about enjoying the shut-down - I live not too far from Heathrow and usually you see dozens and dozens of planes everyday but on Saturday the weather was fantastic and there was not a cloud in the sky and no planes and contrails! I cannot remember ever seeing the sky so clear since my childhood when we lived on the edge of the Sahara.

And although we don't consider the noise from planes a problem around here, this weekend when I was walking in the country I really could tell a difference, the only sounds were those from the birds and other sounds of nature. Fantastic.

[McHrozni]

Well, not always.
If you're on the ground you may be wishing all your life.
If you're in the air, you'll soon be on the ground. One way or another.

Yeah, but chances are it will take your entire remaining life to get there.

McHrozni

[MRC_Hans]

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1004/icevolcano_fulle_big.jpg

Amazing picture!!

WOW! That goes on my desktop for a while!

Hans

[Skwinty]

An update on the plane crash in the UK.

A light plane crashed (http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Ash_Plane_Crash_UK_202401-1.html) in England on Saturday, but any connection to ash has since been pretty much discounted.

[DC]

WOW! That goes on my desktop for a while!

Hans

yeah saw similar on TV, extremly impressive.

but this picture is indeed amazing.

[rjh01]

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1004/icevolcano_fulle_big.jpg

Amazing picture!!

I wonder how much enhancement has been done to the photo? For example is the lightening added?

The camera used is a model that is 6 years old.

[Skwinty]

I wonder how much enhancement has been done to the photo? For example is the lightening added?

The camera used is a model that is 6 years old.


The camera should not be an issue. It is common for lightning discharge in volcanic plumes. Check this one!!!

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap100210.html

[DC]

I wonder how much enhancement has been done to the photo? For example is the lightening added?

The camera used is a model that is 6 years old.

on TV, moving picture, it looked the same. awsome.
but indeed the lighnings look like aded. but thats how it looks anyway.

[Chaos]

No major surprise. :D

Do they have a big sign up.
"We are still flying" or such:)

No, but the boss gave a radio interview to the (rather gloating) tune of "here in Egelsbach, flight operations continue normally".

[gumboot]

Actually, Travis, the transcript of the cockpit communication of KLM 867 says differently.


I think he's talking about BA Flight 9, which was another 747 that suffered failure of all four engines after flying through volcanic ash. The crew were oblivious of the ash cloud, and even as they descended they had no idea why the engines had stopped.

Worth noting that the aircraft didn't fall 10,000ft as someone previously mentioned. They put the aircraft into a glide and started to calculate a good ditching spot, but when the oxygen masks deployed one of the aircrew's masks was broken so the pilots increased their rate of descent to get them down to a safe breathing altitude more rapidly.

[Peephole]

Strikes me there is a big difference between the incidents that happened previously and now. The current "cloud" is nothing of the sort. It's more a barely discernable haze. Massive over-reaction in my view.
Finnish fighter jets damaged by volcanic cloud

HELSINKI - Finnish fighter jets which flew through the volcanic dust covering much of Europe suffered damage and the air force warned Friday the cloud could have a significant impact on planes.

The air force F-18 Hornet jets were on training flights in northern Finland on Thursday morning, when airspace was still open, and the engines were later found to contain fine, volcanic ash dust.

"Based on the pictures, it was discovered that even short flights in ash dust may cause significant damage to an airplane's engine," the Finnish Defence Forces said in a statement.

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Finnish+fighter+jets+damaged+volcanic+cloud/2914603/story.html

[rwguinn]

I wonder how much enhancement has been done to the photo? For example is the lightening added?

The camera used is a model that is 6 years old.
Where did you find the camera info?
Just from looking, it is a large-format film camera, probably Ektachrome,or Fujichrome, which always gives fantastic resolution. I've seen many such images from 6x7, 4x5, and even 70mm cameras in the past...

[Fishstick]

Where did you find the camera info?
Just from looking, it is a large-format film camera, probably Ektachrome,or Fujichrome, which always gives fantastic resolution. I've seen many such images from 6x7, 4x5, and even 70mm cameras in the past...

It was a digital camera (Finepix S3 pro), not a film-cam.

[rwguinn]

It was a digital camera (Finepix S3 pro), not a film-cam.
Ok--but where did you get the info? I can't seem to find it...

[The Mutha]

Hawaii fully booked?

The co-worker, Stephen, lived in Aberdeen for two years as a teenager. They had friends they wanted to visit and managed to get a really good deal on the flights and hotels, so off they went! Jenna has never been out of the US (not even into Mexico), so I'm sure it's been an experience for her as well.

They're being told that there will be "no problem" getting out this afternoon on the flight to Amsterdam. Here in the US, we're hearing that practically no flights are getting out.

[YoPopa]

Ok--but where did you get the info? I can't seem to find it...

That is saved in the JPG file info. data. Save the photo to your disk and open with a program capable of reading Camera Data from the JPG.

[SnidelyW]

I think he's talking about BA Flight 9, which was another 747 that suffered failure of all four engines after flying through volcanic ash. The crew were oblivious of the ash cloud, and even as they descended they had no idea why the engines had stopped.

Worth noting that the aircraft didn't fall 10,000ft as someone previously mentioned. They put the aircraft into a glide and started to calculate a good ditching spot, but when the oxygen masks deployed one of the aircrew's masks was broken so the pilots increased their rate of descent to get them down to a safe breathing altitude more rapidly.

I DID think he was referring to the KLM incident, as it was probably the incident which received the widest media coverage.

[SnidelyW]

Given the chaos this is causing I feel slightly guilty about enjoying the shut-down - I live not too far from Heathrow and usually you see dozens and dozens of planes everyday but on Saturday the weather was fantastic and there was not a cloud in the sky and no planes and contrails! I cannot remember ever seeing the sky so clear since my childhood when we lived on the edge of the Sahara.

And although we don't consider the noise from planes a problem around here, this weekend when I was walking in the country I really could tell a difference, the only sounds were those from the birds and other sounds of nature. Fantastic.

I can echo that statement from here in North America. I live on a bluff overlooking Lake Ontario, and every evening between 1700 and about 2000, aircraft fly over on their way to Europe, to land there around 0700 ish GMT.

The lack of outbound air traffic is quite noticeable, and I am usually outside around that time. I live about 30km from Pearson Int'l and the aircraft are still in their full power climb to altitude.

I understand the disruption and economic penalty for so many which the ash cloud is wreaking, but the respite from trans atlantic jet traffic is quite refreshing, actually.

[MRC_Hans]

As one of those actually stranded, an update:

Sitting in Hong Kong with a colleague. We were to leave very early Saturday morning, but, of course, no joy. Still our regular flight is canceled, but our company, which has some 100-200 people stranded around the world is looking to charter planes to take employees to Europe (from where land transport will supposedly be arranged).

Hong Kong is a nice place to be if you must be stranded, but ......

Hans

[rwguinn]

That is saved in the JPG file info. data. Save the photo to your disk and open with a program capable of reading Camera Data from the JPG.
Thanks!

[Fishstick]

Thanks!

Irfanview (http://www.irfanview.com/) is really nice for this (aside from being a kick-ass image viewer).

[Fishstick]

Well, Hekla has now officially joined the party: http://www.ruv.is/hekla

[uk_dave]

Airspace in Scotland, Northern Ireland and parts of northern England is due to reopen on Tuesday after days of travel chaos caused by a volcanic ash cloud.

The air traffic control body, Nats, said from 0700 BST on Tuesday airspace as far south as a line between Teesside and Blackpool would reopen.

It added that mainland Scottish airports would be open.

Nats said restrictions to airspace above the rest of England and Wales could be lifted later on Tuesday.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8630455.stm

[Almo]

Apart from those in the industry, those whose business relies on air freight, people expecting documents from abroad, people meeting, contracts being signed the list goes on and on. Flight is tightly woven into how the modern world works.

Yup. It's cancelled my project's meeting with the honchos from Paris. Means we have 10 people geared to deliver something to them Thursday, but they won't be here. Requires rejigging schedules and perhaps doing a tele-meeting, which are always inferior.

[Peephole]

And another aircraft damaged:
A senior Western diplomat said Monday that several NATO F-16 fighters had flown through a cloud of volcanic ash and that that one had suffered engine damage.

The official, who could not be named under standing regulations, declined to provide further details on where or when the incident happened. He said only that glasslike deposits were found inside the plane's engine after a patrol through European airspace.

But Bo Redeborn, an official of the European air traffic agency, said later that the F-16 belonged to the Belgian Air Force.

http://www.mymotherlode.com/news/world/955221/NATO-F16-fighters-damaged-by-volcanic-ash.html

[Travis]

Actually, Travis, the transcript of the cockpit communication of KLM 867 says differently.

I think he's talking about BA Flight 9, which was another 747 that suffered failure of all four engines after flying through volcanic ash. The crew were oblivious of the ash cloud, and even as they descended they had no idea why the engines had stopped.

Worth noting that the aircraft didn't fall 10,000ft as someone previously mentioned. They put the aircraft into a glide and started to calculate a good ditching spot, but when the oxygen masks deployed one of the aircrew's masks was broken so the pilots increased their rate of descent to get them down to a safe breathing altitude more rapidly.

I was referring to the BA flight. It actually lost power twice because, not knowing it was there, they ascended back into the ash cloud after their engines restarted. The ash was from a volcano in Indonesia I think. This thread is actually the first time I'd heard of the KLM flight.

[dudalb]

I blame Arne Saknussemm. They should never have let him near those Iceland Volcanoes....

[NewtonTrino]

My sister somehow got off the canary islands and is now in Madrid hoping to make her way back to London from there. I have no idea how she got off but she said that her office was trying to work something out so maybe that came through. She's in the media business so they do a lot of travel...

The magnitude of this is pretty amazing. Mother nature sure has the powa.

[Toke]

My sister somehow got off the canary islands and is now in Madrid hoping to make her way back to London from there. I have no idea how she got off but she said that her office was trying to work something out so maybe that came through. She's in the media business so they do a lot of travel...

The magnitude of this is pretty amazing. Mother nature sure has the powa.

There is a weekly ferry route from the Canaries to Cadiz, she might have pretended to be a truck or a car.:)

[KDLarsen]

Pictures from the Finnish Air Force F18: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/16/340727/pictures-finnish-f-18-engine-check-reveals-effects-of-volcanic.html. I believe a NATO F-16 went up over the weekend as well, and it too sustained damage to its engines.

The ash was from a volcano in Indonesia I think. This thread is actually the first time I'd heard of the KLM flight.
Mount Galunggung. It also provided the name for the club for passengers and crew to keep in touch: Galunggung Gliding Club.

The captain of that flight provided probably the best public announcement ever: Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control. I trust you are not in too much distress.
:cool:

[SnidelyW]

I was referring to the BA flight. It actually lost power twice because, not knowing it was there, they ascended back into the ash cloud after their engines restarted. The ash was from a volcano in Indonesia I think. This thread is actually the first time I'd heard of the KLM flight.

Noted. Sometimes we can be rather North American centric on this side of the 'pond' as it were.

In an earlier post I provided a link which stated scores of aircraft had been affected by volcanic ash, and the British Airways flight was mentioned there, but I assumed the KLM flight had been the most widely publicized to date.

Thanks for the clarification.

[akama1]

I was referring to the BA flight. It actually lost power twice because, not knowing it was there, they ascended back into the ash cloud after their engines restarted. The ash was from a volcano in Indonesia I think. This thread is actually the first time I'd heard of the KLM flight.

correct, the youtube link I posted earlier was for the Aircrash investigations ep about BA 9 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9 ). As it was at night, and the plan radar only shows water content, they never saw the ashcloud, and then it only showed to them as ST-elmos fire around the plane (Infact this was the paint being scraped off)

[The Mutha]

Well, Stephen and Jenna are staying in Scotland for another week. They were scheduled to leave Aberdeen at 6am Aberdeen time today, but got bumped back to next Monday. Luckily, Stephen's the kind to buy all the insurance stuff when booking tickets, so they each have $500 towards their extended stay. So, although homesick as any 23 and 21 year olds on their first trip without any family can be, they're going to make the most of it and do more sightseeing until Monday.

[chillzero]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/volcanic-ash-cloud-turns_b_540283.html

:D

[Information Analyst]

Hilarious CT crackpottery: www.911forum.org.uk (http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=19028&start=0)

Key-words mentioned:

"Exercise" - check!
"False flag" - check!
"Psyop" - check!
"Climate change" - check!
"Chem trails" - check!

And that's just the first page....

[MRC_Hans]

Mmmmm, leaving Hong Kong very early tomorrow to catch a plane in Beijing, going to, hopefully Stockholm, from where there is easy and convinient land-transport to my hometown, Copenhagen.

Love HK, but......

Somebody in our travel depardment flashed our gold frequent flyer statuses, it seems, hehehe.

Hans

[nathan]

My mum reports a plane overflying her on approach to Heathrow.

[ddt]

The TV news said Amsterdam Airport again had some flights. It was quite a chaos, because people just went to the airport without knowing if they actually could get a flight; also people from trans-Atlantic that just flew to Amsterdam in the hope to catch a transfer flight to elsewhere in Europe.

[ohms]

My mum reports a plane overflying her on approach to Heathrow.

Yup UK airports are open again.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8633597.stm

[Chaos]

I was in Frankfurt today, and saw two different planes on the way there. Some limited flight activity, at low altitude with special permits, seems to have resumed.

[zooterkin]

From what I heard on the radio earlier, it sounds as though BA partly forced the issue, by sending a number of planes to the UK.

[MRC_Hans]

Flew home via Beijing and from there directly to CPH, on Apr. 21. Nice to be back on my home soil. Seems the situation is normalizing quick.

- So now we have still another factor to consider when planning overseas trips. :(

Hans

[Darat]

We are still seeing some airport closures: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8639066.stm

[nathan]

Flew home via Beijing and from there directly to CPH, on Apr. 21. Nice to be back on my home soil. Seems the situation is normalizing quick.

Glad you made it. Mrs Me and I are about to board our flight home, 6 days late.

[macdoc]

It's BAAAAAAAAACK.....

New volcanic cloud disrupts air travel
A mammoth cloud of volcanic ash is stretching across the North Atlantic and forcing most flights between North America and Europe to divert into a sky-high traffic jam.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/806186--new-volcanic-cloud-disrupts-atlantic-air-travel?bn=1

[BenBurch]

Webcam of the mountain today looks lot like the initial eruption.

[rjh01]

I think a lot depends on the wind direction. If it blows South then it will force aircraft flying between Europe and the US to fly a long way round. If the wind blows the ash over Europe then aircraft will not take off or land in Europe.

[ddt]

It has reached Spain, and several airports have been closed there. And the cloud envelopes mos of Western Europe including the British Isles, so the rerouting is tedious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8669610.stm