How to deal with Pentecostals?

[Zelenius]

I honestly did not know just how fanatical, insane and pushy Pentecostals could be until a family member and his wife converted. He had been a Catholic his entire life, but now he claims the Catholic Church services are "cold" and "boring". He was very recently baptized into a Pentecostal church and has been raving like a lunatic about how amazing this church is. He has been pushing his new found faith on me and everyone else in the family(he seems not so much a "born-againer" as a person who has switched denominations, although he sounds an awful lot like a "born-againer").

I've had to deal with religious fanatics outside my family many times, but never had to deal with them in my family before. It is beyond annoying, as well as troubling, and even family members who are Catholic are deeply offended by my relatives recent behavior. I'm an atheist. He's never really acted "crazy" before, but I've long believed his very moody wife has serious mental issues, and she was likely the one who got involved in Pentecostalism first. She'd probably leave the house more to push her religion if she didn't have trouble walking and wasn't so sick. They're old and childless(luckily). I'm also worried that this church may even be a scam(granted, I see most religion as a scam), having watched the Peter Popoff exposes a number of times, as well as other Pentecostal/non-denominational charismatic preachers who make a ton of money from preaching nonsense to the gullible.

This relative doesn't even know I'm an atheist. Although we're not that close, I'm thinking of pretending I'm a religious Christian to avoid a confrontation, since he seems to be the type of person who would die of a heart attack if he learns I'm an atheist. Or at least he would get angry and work very hard to get me to go to his church to fix what he would almost certainly see as a terrible character flaw.

I've always been somewhat aware of Pentecostalism, how fanatical(and mentally ill) they often are, how they are on average uneducated and poor compared to other Christian denominations. But this is too much. Based on my readings, it seems there are a lot of people in the same boat as me, and not just non-believers but Christians of other denominations. What is the best way to deal with this situation? Feel free to share your experiences with Pentecostals, born-againers, or any other evangelical fanatics or charismatics.

[Darth Rotor]

I honestly did not know just how fanatical, insane and pushy Pentecostals could be until a family member and his wife converted. He had been a Catholic his entire life, but now he claims the Catholic Church services are "cold" and "boring".
My hypothesis: charismatic churches appeal to the generations baby boomer and newer, thanks to the "show" and "entertainment" aspects of the services. The generations that have grown up with TV stimulation, and now 24/7 info age stimulation, may be addicted to energy/content input.

That explains some of the appeal.
He was very recently baptized into a Pentecostal church and has been raving like a lunatic about how amazing this church is. He has been pushing his new found faith on me and everyone else in the family(he seems not so much a "born-againer" as a person who has switched denominations, although he sounds an awful lot like a "born-againer").
Aye, seen the same.
I've had to deal with religious fanatics outside my family many times, but never had to deal with them in my family before. It is beyond annoying, as well as troubling, and even family members who are Catholic are deeply offended by my relatives recent behavior.
No surprise, what he's done is a form of social rejection. That can hurt.
He's never really acted "crazy" before, but I've long believed his very moody wife has serious mental issues, and she was likely the one who got involved in Pentecostalism first. She'd probably leave the house more to push her religion if she didn't have trouble walking and wasn't so sick.
Well, at least they are going to the same church together ... home is where the heart is.
I'm also worried that this church may even be a scam (granted, I see most religion as a scam), having watched the Peter Popoff exposes a number of times, as well as other Pentecostal/non-denominational charismatic preachers who make a ton of money from preaching nonsense to the gullible.
How big is the church (people) and how big is the building?
Based on my readings, it seems there are a lot of people in the same boat as me, and not just non-believers but Christians of other denominations. What is the best way to deal with this situation? Feel free to share your experiences with Pentecostals, born-againers, or any other evangelical fanatics or charismatics.
How to deal with Pentacostals? One at a time, and if a family member, with patience if Pentacostalism isn't your cup of tea.

DR

[Denver]

Regardless of your opinion on his beliefs, he has a right to them, as you do to yours. If he's not hurting anyone (and is not personally bothering you), I think you should mind your own business.

[Fnord]

I usually just smile, nod my head, close the door and go on about my business.

[pgwenthold]

I usually just smile, nod my head, close the door and go on about my business.

Why should he have to?

Why can't the annoying pentacostal just shut up? He's the one that's annoying others.

[joobz]

When I was in Junior high, my best friend(pentacostal) invited me to his church group to play basketball. This was fairly common with most youth groups. Having gone to many similar events at catholic churches, greek orthodox churches, I didn't think much of it.

When we got there, we ended up having a "brief meeting" about the lord. This involved watching the video about how rock music was satan's music. (RUSH = Ruler's under Satan's Hand). I tried not to giggle as many people were very serious about this. Afterwards, we left to play basketball and then play music (Nobody seemed to mind when I played Metallica Riffs on the church guitar).

The next day, I started to receive phone calls from the youth minister involved. He invited me back for more services. I thanked him, but said I would not be able to attend. He then called me a week later, and my parents informed him I wasn't home. The following day he came to school during lunch and found me. I told him I was busy and had to go.

At this point I had to ask my friend and his family to please ask their youth minister to leave me alone. They laughed it off as this was a "new guy" who was a "little over zealous" in his "love of the lord". I laughed it off as it was "extremely creepy" and I didn't want to be by the "creepy guy".

[Foster Zygote]

The following day he came to school during lunch and found me.

Now that's really creepy, and completely out of line. If someone went to my son's school like that without at least asking my permission first, I would tell him that further attempts to contact my son would result in me contacting the police.

[joobz]

Now that's really creepy, and completely out of line. If someone went to my son's school like that without at least asking my permission first, I would tell him that further attempts to contact my son would result in me contacting the police.
My dad told the church exactly that on the phone. Actually, they were fairly angry with my friend's family over it.

[Flo]

I honestly did not know just how fanatical, insane and pushy Pentecostals could be until a family member and his wife converted. He had been a Catholic his entire life, but now he claims the Catholic Church services are "cold" and "boring". He was very recently baptized into a Pentecostal church and has been raving like a lunatic about how amazing this church is. He has been pushing his new found faith on me and everyone else in the family(he seems not so much a "born-againer" as a person who has switched denominations, although he sounds an awful lot like a "born-againer").


That's called "the zeal of the new converts". It is common with absolutely every single denomination of absolutely every single religion the World over.

New converts need to convince themselves they have made the right choice, and to prove their sincerity/zeal to their new pastor and community, and what better way than to openly and noisily reject their former faith/religion/community and to try to bring as many people as possible to their new one ?

[Radrook]

Tell him what you just told us.

[Darth Rotor]

Why should he have to?

Why can't the annoying pentacostal just shut up? He's the one that's annoying others.
It isn't a crime to ask, is it? He won't know he's being annoying until he asks.

If, however, the asking gets to be repetitive, then I get onto your bandwagon and suggest that the asker leave alone those who have already said "no thanks."

Of course, no salesman worth his salt takes no for an answer ... :cool:

[pgwenthold]

It isn't a crime to ask, is it? He won't know he's being annoying until he asks.


That's another approach, yes, that is an alternative to "smile, nod, and go about your business."

[Trent Wray]

On an oddly other end of this spectrum, I work with many Indian Pentecostals. They are, overall, very well educated and intelligent and not pushy about their faith. They are also usually polite and cordial, etc. However, I have noticed that when talking to them individually at any depth, an unbelievable racism comes up that is horrid (and it's not just a cultural thing I don't think, I think it's honestly exacerbated by their faith). IMO.

[SOdhner]

That's called "the zeal of the new converts". It is common with absolutely every single denomination of absolutely every single religion the World over.

No, it's just that the religions or people where that IS common are so noisy that it seems like a bigger problem than it is.

[Cainkane1]

I honestly did not know just how fanatical, insane and pushy Pentecostals could be until a family member and his wife converted. He had been a Catholic his entire life, but now he claims the Catholic Church services are "cold" and "boring". He was very recently baptized into a Pentecostal church and has been raving like a lunatic about how amazing this church is. He has been pushing his new found faith on me and everyone else in the family(he seems not so much a "born-againer" as a person who has switched denominations, although he sounds an awful lot like a "born-againer").

I've had to deal with religious fanatics outside my family many times, but never had to deal with them in my family before. It is beyond annoying, as well as troubling, and even family members who are Catholic are deeply offended by my relatives recent behavior. I'm an atheist. He's never really acted "crazy" before, but I've long believed his very moody wife has serious mental issues, and she was likely the one who got involved in Pentecostalism first. She'd probably leave the house more to push her religion if she didn't have trouble walking and wasn't so sick. They're old and childless(luckily). I'm also worried that this church may even be a scam(granted, I see most religion as a scam), having watched the Peter Popoff exposes a number of times, as well as other Pentecostal/non-denominational charismatic preachers who make a ton of money from preaching nonsense to the gullible.

This relative doesn't even know I'm an atheist. Although we're not that close, I'm thinking of pretending I'm a religious Christian to avoid a confrontation, since he seems to be the type of person who would die of a heart attack if he learns I'm an atheist. Or at least he would get angry and work very hard to get me to go to his church to fix what he would almost certainly see as a terrible character flaw.

I've always been somewhat aware of Pentecostalism, how fanatical(and mentally ill) they often are, how they are on average uneducated and poor compared to other Christian denominations. But this is too much. Based on my readings, it seems there are a lot of people in the same boat as me, and not just non-believers but Christians of other denominations. What is the best way to deal with this situation? Feel free to share your experiences with Pentecostals, born-againers, or any other evangelical fanatics or charismatics.
Try discussing things other than religion with him. If you tell him you're an atheist he might physically attack you.

[Cainkane1]

On an oddly other end of this spectrum, I work with many Indian Pentecostals. They are, overall, very well educated and intelligent and not pushy about their faith. They are also usually polite and cordial, etc. However, I have noticed that when talking to them individually at any depth, an unbelievable racism comes up that is horrid (and it's not just a cultural thing I don't think, I think it's honestly exacerbated by their faith). IMO.
many fundamentals feel that african ancestried peoples have the curse of cain. Are these people who from India prejudiced against black people?

[Fnord]

Why should he have to?
Counter-question: Why should anyone who is annoying to someone else be forced to shut up?
Why can't the annoying pentacostal just shut up? He's the one that's annoying others.
Believe it or not, some people actually welcome and enjoy pentacostal evangelism.

[pgwenthold]

Counter-question: Why should anyone who is annoying to someone else be forced to shut up?


Because they are annoying.

Given the question of who should shut up,

1) annoying person
2) not annoying person,

why is it even a question?

[Foster Zygote]

Because they are annoying.

Given the question of who should shut up,

1) annoying person
2) not annoying person,

why is it even a question?

Annoyance is rather subjective, though. No matter what you say, someone is sure to be at least annoyed by it.

[ExMinister]

I honestly did not know just how fanatical, insane and pushy Pentecostals could be until a family member and his wife converted. He had been a Catholic his entire life, but now he claims the Catholic Church services are "cold" and "boring". He was very recently baptized into a Pentecostal church and has been raving like a lunatic about how amazing this church is. He has been pushing his new found faith on me and everyone else in the family(he seems not so much a "born-againer" as a person who has switched denominations, although he sounds an awful lot like a "born-againer").

I've had to deal with religious fanatics outside my family many times, but never had to deal with them in my family before. It is beyond annoying, as well as troubling, and even family members who are Catholic are deeply offended by my relatives recent behavior. I'm an atheist. He's never really acted "crazy" before, but I've long believed his very moody wife has serious mental issues, and she was likely the one who got involved in Pentecostalism first. She'd probably leave the house more to push her religion if she didn't have trouble walking and wasn't so sick. They're old and childless(luckily). I'm also worried that this church may even be a scam(granted, I see most religion as a scam), having watched the Peter Popoff exposes a number of times, as well as other Pentecostal/non-denominational charismatic preachers who make a ton of money from preaching nonsense to the gullible.

This relative doesn't even know I'm an atheist. Although we're not that close, I'm thinking of pretending I'm a religious Christian to avoid a confrontation, since he seems to be the type of person who would die of a heart attack if he learns I'm an atheist. Or at least he would get angry and work very hard to get me to go to his church to fix what he would almost certainly see as a terrible character flaw.

I've always been somewhat aware of Pentecostalism, how fanatical(and mentally ill) they often are, how they are on average uneducated and poor compared to other Christian denominations. But this is too much. Based on my readings, it seems there are a lot of people in the same boat as me, and not just non-believers but Christians of other denominations. What is the best way to deal with this situation? Feel free to share your experiences with Pentecostals, born-againers, or any other evangelical fanatics or charismatics.

I have not heard this before. Do you have data to back that up? I'd be curious to see it.

You didn't say how long this has been going on. Maybe he's just excited over finding this church he's so crazy about and will stop once the "newness" has worn off.

If not, and you don't want to just avoid him, you might try telling him that since he's already told you about the church, you'd like to change the subject.

[paximperium]

I have not heard this before. Do you have data to back that up? I'd be curious to see it.
Pentecostal are infamous for their spread among the poor and many 3rd world nations. Many prior catholic bastions in Latin America and Africa are now converting to Pentecostalism.

[pgwenthold]

Annoyance is rather subjective, though. No matter what you say, someone is sure to be at least annoyed by it.

It depends who is in the room.

Yes, whatever you say, someone, somewhere is sure to be annoyed by it. However, that is a function of time and space. If you are in a pentacostal church on a Sunday morning, you won't find too many people annoyed by penacostal ranting. If you are in a bar on a Friday night, you will find a lot more. So if you restrict the domain properly, then, NO, it is not the case that someone is sure to be annoyed.

The key is to recognize the annoyance function and say what you will in the presence of people who aren't annoyed, instead of saying it where people are annoyed.

The problem with the current situation is that the person does not have a grasp of correct domain, and is incorrectly assuming he is in a place where the annoyance is minimal. Being new to the pentacostal scene, he does not have the calibration. Moreover, given the topic, most people are too kind to provide the necessary feedback, and he is incorrectly interpreting the lack of return on his ranting as implicit approval (assuming "no answer" to the functional input constitutes "affirmative" response).

What he needs is someone to tell him to shut up because he is annoying, so that he can learn where are the appropriate places where he can say what he is saying without being annoying (get real feedback on his annoyance function)

[Fnord]

Because they are annoying.

Given the question of who should shut up,

1) annoying person
2) not annoying person,

why is it even a question?
Because:

1. Some people enjoy what you find annoying, and may even be annoyed at what you say.

2. If everyone who was annoying to someone else was forced to shut up, the world would soon be filled with silent people.

3. Earplugs.

4. This thread annoys me. By your reasoning, it should be locked and deleted.

[pgwenthold]

Because:

1. Some people enjoy what you find annoying, and may even be annoyed at what you say.

Fine, let them find a place to enjoy it where I am not, and a place where such behavior is going to be less likely to annoy people. Like at church on Sunday morning.

[ExMinister]

Pentecostal are infamous for their spread among the poor and many 3rd world nations. Many prior catholic bastions in Latin America and Africa are now converting to Pentecostalism.

Thanks! I also found this:

Economically, evangelical Pentecostals tend to earn lower incomes and have less education compared with the public overall and with other evangelicals. Nearly half of evangelical Pentecostals (45%) report annual household incomes of less than $30,000, and 27% say they have attained less than a high school education. Among evangelicals overall, the comparable figures are 34% and 16%. Members of black Pentecostal churches also tend to earn lower incomes and to have less education compared with the public overall. from http://pewresearch.org/pubs/949/palin-nomination-pentecostalism

One thing I have found is that it is better to avoid this type of person, if you don't share their views, than to to try to reason. What I've found is that most often the pentecostal Christian is not going to take your reasonable arguments to heart but instead they are going to be feeling sorry for you and trying to come up with another angle to hopefully reach you and save your soul. The biblical facts and anything else you might have to say just go right in one ear and out the other.

I met a young man a few months ago who was a Pentecostal evangelical Christian, probably in his late teens, who sat down next to me at one of my son's after-school activities. I happened to be reading a book on science, and this young man explained to me that he was "on fire for the lord." (sigh) He asked me what my book was about and when I told him, he said, "Oh, I'm not a science type. I'm a faith type." :( Isn't that sad? I told him, as I do my own kids, that if he doesn't develop an interest in critical thinking and learn as much as he can about science and the way the world works, anyone can come along and tell him anything and he may be gullible enough to believe it. But nothing I said made any difference. What a travesty... to be a teenager and already convinced that you aren't a "science type."

As far as reasoning, he would ask me a question, "Why don't you believe the Bible is the word of God?" and I would point out that the Old Testament God is not a very nice character, etc., and I would realize that he was not really listening, just thinking of the next question he could ask me to give him a chance to quote more scripture and convert me. That's when I realized two things: First, that he is likely going to go and repeat what I've said to his youth pastor who will give him some evangelically correct "rebuttals," and second that he was never once swayed toward criticism of his own views, but instead was looking critically at ME, as if I was a poor soul who needed saving.

[Darth Rotor]

I happened to be reading a book on science, and this young man explained to me that he was "on fire for the lord." (sigh) He asked me what my book was about and when I told him, he said, "Oh, I'm not a science type. I'm a faith type." :( Isn't that sad? )
Yes. :(

He seems to have chosen the Spy Vs Spy view of life.

[steve s]

...this young man explained to me that he was "on fire for the lord."

You should have said "I'll go get a fire extinguisher."

Whenever some fundy starts jabbering at me about how devout they are, I usually bring up Luke 14:33 and say "Can I assume then that you've given away all your possessions?" Or ask them if they can drink poison and cure the sick just by touching them. [Mark 16:17-18] If they can't, then why not? Jesus said they should be able to if they believe. Either they're not really a believer or Jesus lied. I like to get them on the defensive about their own religion.

Steve S

[Dr. Keith]

he was never once swayed toward criticism of his own views, but instead was looking critically at ME, as if I was a poor soul who needed saving.

I used to take a similar road, but it is hard to be the one doing the converting. Even when you have a young man who is so taken by the word that he doesn't understand the value of science. Now, I take a more Socratic approach and just let them talk to me and ask pointed short questions. Even ask them to explain the wackier parts in more detail. It is less work and it can be effective for them to hear the craziness out loud in their own voice.

And if they ask for my input I just smile and say something along the lines of "you seem to have enough faith for the both of us."

[Manopolus]

My short answer to the O.P.?

Run!!

[Fnord]

One fundie didn't seem to like it at all when she could not refute my "God Hates Amputees" arguments. After all, if faith healers like Benny Hinn can cure 'invisible' ailments like migraines and cancers, then why can't they ever restore a missing limb or eye, or even cure baldness?

[ExMinister]

One fundie didn't seem to like it at all when she could not refute my "God Hates Amputees" arguments. After all, if faith healers like Benny Hinn can cure 'invisible' ailments like migraines and cancers, then why can't they ever restore a missing limb or eye, or even cure baldness?

This is such a good point to make. There is also a great web site by the same name. If they've come up with a rebuttal for this one, I haven't heard it yet.

[Complexity]

I would have nothing to do with them.

There are so many other people that I'd rather know.

Don't let fear of your relative keep you in the closet.

[Schrodinger's Cat]

That's called "the zeal of the new converts". It is common with absolutely every single denomination of absolutely every single religion the World over.

New converts need to convince themselves they have made the right choice, and to prove their sincerity/zeal to their new pastor and community, and what better way than to openly and noisily reject their former faith/religion/community and to try to bring as many people as possible to their new one ?


I agree this is a common phenomenon with any recent conversion. In college when you had a lot of religion switching, even friends of mine who joined religions you'd consider pretty benign, like Ba'hai or Buddhism, who really got on the "trying to convert everyone I know" kick.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Regardless of your opinion on his beliefs, he has a right to them, as you do to yours. If he's not hurting anyone (and is not personally bothering you), I think you should mind your own business.
Maybe we should just close down the JREF. Woo believers have a right to their opinions, they aren't hurting anyone. We should mind our own business.


How do you know there is no harm being done here?
and
Why should we not address irrational thinking on the basis it might make a difference in society or in an individual's life?

That doesn't mean I'm suggesting one should intervene in every situation. Sometimes there is nothing likely to be gained and harm may be done like hurting a family relationship or a friendship. But the argument, "to each his/her own beliefs," is a weak argument.

[Complexity]

Anyone know of any good recipes for pentacostals?

I haven't figured out how to cook up all of the parts yet.

[tsig]

One fundie didn't seem to like it at all when she could not refute my "God Hates Amputees" arguments. After all, if faith healers like Benny Hinn can cure 'invisible' ailments like migraines and cancers, then why can't they ever restore a missing limb or eye, or even cure baldness?

God doesn't cure baldness he sends bears to rip apart those who make fun of it.

[steve s]

This is such a good point to make. There is also a great web site by the same name. If they've come up with a rebuttal for this one, I haven't heard it yet.

[Fundy response]

1)God works in mysterious ways.

2)Ours is not to wonder why.

3)God has his reasons.


[/Fundy response]


Steve S

[ExMinister]

[Fundy response]

1)God works in mysterious ways.

2)Ours is not to wonder why.

3)God has his reasons.


[/Fundy response]


Steve S

:rolleyes:

[ExMinister]

God doesn't cure baldness he sends bears to rip apart those who make fun of it.

God hates teasing bald guys so much he sends a bunch of bears after a group of kids, but people can commit murder and rape and no bears. No lightning strikes, not even a divine slap on the hand. Yeah, that makes sense.

I guess God does work in mysterious ways...

[Simon39759]

He just has a different set of priorities...

[Elizabeth I]

God hates teasing bald guys so much he sends a bunch of bears after a group of kids, but people can commit murder and rape and no bears. No lightning strikes, not even a divine slap on the hand. Yeah, that makes sense.

I guess God does work in mysterious ways...

He just has a different set of priorities...

Maybe He's bald and really, really sensitive about it.

[valis]

I honestly did not know just how fanatical, insane and pushy Pentecostals could be until a family member and his wife converted. He had been a Catholic his entire life, but now he claims the Catholic Church services are "cold" and "boring". He was very recently baptized into a Pentecostal church and has been raving like a lunatic about how amazing this church is. He has been pushing his new found faith on me and everyone else in the family(he seems not so much a "born-againer" as a person who has switched denominations, although he sounds an awful lot like a "born-againer").


You should send him an article on how to proselytize his new religion politely; I found this one on a religious site, it should be helpful: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/942-if-this-be-selling.html

[Simon39759]

Maybe He's bald and really, really sensitive about it.

Indeed, and jealous about more capillary endowed men...
(Hence: [Fred Phelps] "God hates mullets! [/Fred Phelps]

[Fnord]

[Fundy response]

1)God works in mysterious ways.

2)Ours is not to wonder why.

3)God has his reasons.

[/Fundy response]

[More Fundy Response]

4)Obviously, you hate God.

5)Obviously, you've not received the Holy Spirit.

6)Obviously, you've not accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.

7)Obviously, you must be:

- an atheist

- gay or a lesbian

- a communist

- demon-possessed

- a liberal

- humanist

- sent by Satan

- all of the above

[/More Fundy Response]

[devnull]

When Im faced with fundamentalists I usually just ask them a series of questions until they go away. Stuff like:

Do I look retarded to you?
Can you see a scar from a massive head injury?
Do you think I maybe overdosed on stupid drugs this morning?
Are you implying that in my youth my mother held my head under water long enough to cause serious brain injury?

etc etc etc, until they get the point. These people so far down the rabbit hole that there is no hope. Best to just approach the situation with some humour and ridicule, then move on with your life.

BTW, I usually pose the same set of questions to the scientology morons outside the local dianetics centre when stopped. That's always fun too :)

[Fnord]

... Do I look retarded to you? ...
Uhh ... about that avatar ... very nice ...

;)

[devnull]

Uhh ... about that avatar ... very nice ...

;)

lol! Ill have you know that Bubbles is the smartest guy in the trailer park!

Noone fixes trolleys like Bubbles!

[Radrook]

Maybe He's bald and really, really sensitive about it.


I once researched this subject and found that the Hebrew word is either better translated young men than kids or referred to young men and not kids. Not that I'm trying to convince you about the punishment. Only that tagging them as kids is not really necessarily correct. Neither do we know the bacvkround of these young hooligans. Nor can we read their hearts and intentions. Assuming that the biblical God is described as capable of that-then leaving it to his discretion would be the wiser choice.


.

“Should Elisha Be Blamed for the Death of These ‘Children’?




by Roger Kovaciny on September 14th, 2008

I'm glad you asked, since I'm a full-time professional Bible translator who also taught beginning Hebrew for seven years.

In the first place, it doesn't say the bears tore them "to pieces," but only mauled them.

In the second place, the word "children" was used of Joseph when he was 28 years old, so it's a mistranslation. They weren't children; this was a gang of toughs.

In the third place, the text shows that they had surrounded him. How does it show that? Well, there are two separate Hebrew words for "bald." When they said "Go up, thou bald head," they were using the word for someone who is bald in back, and therefore this wasn't just a group of juvenile delinquents who saw him coming and mocked him on the way into their city; they were both in front of and behind him.

And in the fourth place, there was the nature of what they said. "Go up." Elijah had already ascended into heaven. They were telling him to do the same thing--to go up, to leave the earth, therefore to die. They were cursing him. You know what happens when you're the lone person (and an unarmed old man at that) in a crowd of 42 juvenile delinquents who are mocking and cursing you and wishing you would die. You are shortly going to be subject to extreme violence and possibly death. So the Lord created a distraction in the form of angry she-bears and the prophet could carry out his mission.

.

BTW

The prophet was going uphill, perhaps exhausted, maybe with pain in his aged joints.
I can sympathize with that. I was once very ill while attending church and some kids began to laugh and joke about it. Regretably I responded with angry words.

[paximperium]

I once researched this subject and found that the Hebrew word is either better translated young men than kids or referred to young men and not kids. Not that I'm trying to convince you about the punishment. Only that tagging them as kids is not really necessarily correct.

Anyway, the prophet was going uphill, perhaps exhausted, maybe with pain in his aged joints.
I can sympathize with that. I was once very ill while attending church and some kids began to laugh and joke about it. Regretably I responded with angry words.
Good for you; your prophet and god would've slaughtered those kids.

[KingMerv00]

He just has a different set of priorities...

I think his priorities go something like this:

1) Worship me
2) Worship me properly
3) Worship nothing else

[tsig]

I once researched this subject and found that the Hebrew word is either better translated young men than kids or referred to young men and not kids. Not that I'm trying to convince you about the punishment. Only that tagging them as kids is not really necessarily correct. Neither do we know the bacvkround of these young hooligans. Nor can we read their hearts and intentions. Assuming that the biblical God is described as capable of that-then leaving it to his discretion would be the wiser choice.


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BTW

The prophet was going uphill, perhaps exhausted, maybe with pain in his aged joints.
I can sympathize with that. I was once very ill while attending church and some kids began to laugh and joke about it. Regretably I responded with angry words.

They went from kids to young men to hooligans with evil intent all in one paragraph!